Guild Wars 2

I guess the first thing I’ll state here is that I’m not an outstanding player filled with knowledge, so this is some what of legit question.

I understand that in general rangers are not well liked in PvE because pets can accidentally pull mobs, and I understand rangers are not liked well in WvW because opponents purposefully go right passed the pet and kill the then vulnerable ranger.

My question is fairly general, I suppose. Is there more to it than that? Is it something more complex than having a wonky pet? And whether it is or isn’t, are there ways to improve this?

I would say I am very knowledgeable about GW2 and its game mechanics. I don’t hate rangers, and I think most people dont hate rangers. We hate the players that play rangers because this profession promotes poor play. And the players that gravitate towards it end up being poor players due to that.

When I say poor play style I mean the class promotes sitting behind a pet to tank and pew pewing from the side or behind the pet. So because of that a lot of rangers never learn how to be effective with their class. Moreso the class being dependent on pets the player themselves without the pet is not as effective as a non pet class.

So its just as important I would say even more important that the ranger knows how to play well. But like I said becasue this profession promotes poor play style and the drawbacks of only being half a player without the pet. Players who are in the know and are skillful often don’t play rangers becasue there are simply better options for skillful play.

I play my Ranger most of the time. Here’s the thing with pets. If the person controls them it’s not an issue generally. I hold mine back unless I want to pull…..I’m actually pretty effective at it and honestly, person pull and go down OR pet pull and switch out?? I use and “abuse” my pets sometimes, making them do the dirty work. I’ll leave them behind while the rest of the party runs thru a mob to a safe area. It’s a matter of communicating that with the rest of the party.
Running past a pet in WvW is only the human thing to do. What is the goal…..kill the player or the pet?? Kill the player and they both go away right?? As a ranger it’s the opposite…..we’ll try to get you with the pet so we can pluck you with conditions, arrows or evasive actions.

Hope that helps a bit.

The major mechanical problem with Rangers is that if the pet gets hit, both it and the owner slow to combat speed.
I would have thought that balancing this shouldn’t be complicated; simply make the pet and the owner different entities for determining combat state. But it looks like this is beyond ArenaNet’s ability to implement.

In defense of my fellow rangers, all classes have poor players that frustrate and irritate the rest of the player base. Some, and warrior is the first that springs to mind, are simply more effective with poor play. Not to hate on warriors or other classes but it feels a little overlooked to me.

That said, the sheer venom I’ve noticed (recently) directed at rangers boggles my mind. I’m with the OP on this. Is there more of a reason for it then simply mechanics? How does choosing ranger make me the cause of all things that fail in a group event?

There’s a lot of different reasons. But broadly speaking the problem I see most often is that the profession starts off relatively simply to play but has quite a steep learning curve at higher levels and players don’t always realise that.

At lower levels you’re almost entirely playing in open-world PvE which is relatively simple, and if you’re playing a ranger you’re likely to be using a ranged weapon (we only have 2 melee weapons). Which means combat will usually consist of standing back letting your pet draw aggro while you pick away at their health with whatever attacks you feel like using, then moving on to the next one.

You usually don’t need to worry about killing enemies in a specific order so it doesn’t matter which one your pet is attacking, and they’ll usually not be attacking you so you don’t need to worry about dodging or even moving much or things like countering incoming conditions, just drop a Healing Spring if your health gets low and carry on.

Then you start doing higher level or more challenging content like dungeons and suddenly that doesn’t work any more. You can’t get far enough back to use a longbow effectively, or to stay out the way of the enemies. You need to attack them in a specific order and if you’re running past groups (which is quite likely the way most people do dungeons) you don’t want your pet attacking any you’ve aggroed and dragging them after you. You also need to get into melee range (either because you don’t have a choice or because the melee weapons have higher DPS) and that brings a whole load of new challenges.

All these are things other professions will pick up gradually as they go along, but rangers can quite easily get away with not knowing at all until they’re close to max level, then suddenly it all drops at once. It’s a lot to take in.

Note: I’m basing a lot of this on my personal experience having a ranger as my main character since launch. I got somewhat lucky because I also had an engineer and an elementalist and I wanted my ranger to play more like them, and I wanted to use a sword, so I started exploring other mechanics and ways of playing relatively early on. But I still mentally kick myself for the time I actually said “I don’t need to dodge because I play a ranger” in chat.

But it’s also what I’ve seen from playing with and talking to other rangers. Like the guy who was level 78 and apparently didn’t know he could recall or swap his pet. He’d just kill one enemy, wait for his bear to heal and move on to the next one. Until he started doing dungeons he’d apparently never needed to do anything else, so he didn’t learn.

In PvE pets won’t accidentally pull mobs. The pet can go right in the middle of 20 foes and not aggro, as long as the Ranger won’t aggro or the pet won’t be commanded to attack.
In WvW, Rangers are disliked because of the lack of group support. Also the pet explodes in a zerg. Roaming WvW, I believe Rangers have some good builds. The problem is that most players don’t use them and are considered as ‘’free lootbags’‘.

The main reason why people hate the Ranger is because of pugs. They go through leveling with a bear and a longbow, making the pet tank while spamming auto attack at 1500 range. They don’t know how to melee, or how to dodge, because they haven’t have had the need to do so.
So when these so called ’’Bearbows’’ come to dungeons or other PvE content, they bring nothing to the party.

But the Ranger can be useful. There are people that really want to make this class work and really want to know what Rangers should be using. A good way to check if the Ranger is worth bringing, ask if they have Spotter+traited Frost Spirit. If they do, it’s your loss if you kick them, but if they don’t have them, you are better off with someone else.

P.S. Pet AI is one reason why people hate Rangers, but it seems that there’s going to be updates to it in the 15.4 feature patch.

Edit:
What Danikat said.

Warlord.9074:

When I say poor play style I mean the class promotes sitting behind a pet to tank and pew pewing from the side or behind the pet. So because of that a lot of rangers never learn how to be effective with their class. Moreso the class being dependent on pets the player themselves without the pet is not as effective as a non pet class.

I agree with this because I can relate. Ranger was my first (and still favorite) profession to play. When I would try playing other professions I would die really fast. Being a ranger really doesn’t teach you how to dodge at all, or force you to learn that sometimes toughness is better than pure damage.

Warlord.9074:

We hate the players that play rangers because this profession promotes poor play. And the players that gravitate towards it end up being poor players due to that.

When I say poor play style I mean the class promotes sitting behind a pet to tank and pew pewing from the side or behind the pet. So because of that a lot of rangers never learn how to be effective with their class. Moreso the class being dependent on pets the player themselves without the pet is not as effective as a non pet class.

So its just as important I would say even more important that the ranger knows how to play well. But like I said becasue this profession promotes poor play style and the drawbacks of only being half a player without the pet. Players who are in the know and are skillful often don’t play rangers becasue there are simply better options for skillful play.

Quite the superior complex there but I understand some don’t know how a little tact can go a long way (bows to you in the exalted status in your mind).
I am (as any versatile ranger is) quite capable of putting an arrow in any part of the body as well as the use of the ascended sword (oh wait, that must be for decoration), dagger or axe. OR perhaps you refer to ALL non-heavy neanderthal classes such as thief, ele’s, necromancers??

Different classes have different styles. Go ahead and run in when you are set like a tank, I’ve seen many fall, saved some and rez’d many as well. As I am sure you have if you are half the player you claim with your self expressed expertise at the keyboard (unless you are the kind that runs by people when they are down even if on the same team).

Riftwalkercat.9168:

IHow does choosing ranger make me the cause of all things that fail in a group event?

Poor DPS, poor utilities, not as useful as a war, elem, guard or necro in WvW.
For twisted marionet a lot of rangers let the pet tank the protector who needs to be kited into his own mines…
Bearbow rangers that are useless.
Generally, if you see a 100% ranged ranger you know there’s something wrong.
Don’t misunderstand me, I got one but I have the decency to play it only in open world where all classes are kinda okay.

In addition to the notes on Ranger not teaching good melee skills, the locked-in animation of the Sword auto-attack doesn’t help here. Unless you time your dodge to coincide with the end of the animation loop, you simply won’t dodge.

My main build on my Ranger before I stopped playing in November was a condition-heavy Sword & Torch one with Shortbow offhand and Lynx / Jaguar pets. It allowed for quick and regular application of many different condition stacks (mostly bleeding, burning and poison). But while it was fun to play, when in melee I didn’t feel completely in control, as I simply couldn’t dodge when I wanted to.

A well played ranger is nice in a dungeongroup, sadly there is only 1 in 1000. So it’s less time consuming to look for a decent warrior as there is maybe 1 in 10.

My Sweet Lily.1952:

In PvE pets won’t accidentally pull mobs. The pet can go right in the middle of 20 foes and not aggro, as long as the Ranger won’t aggro or the pet won’t be commanded to attack.

This is also a common misconception (by both people who play rangers and people who don’t) that causes a lot of problems.

They did used to draw aggro, that was changed a long time ago but some people don’t realise. What happens now is the ranger draws aggro and, if they’re not told otherwise, the pet will run to attack whatever is attacking you. Which looks a lot like the pet drawing aggro and a lot of people seem to assume is an inevitable part of having a pet (and therefore a ranger) around.

But rangers actually have 3 options to stop it happening:
1) Use F1 to order the pet to attack another target.
2) Use F3 to recall them. They’ll then stand by your side not attacking until either you tell them to or a new enemy hits you.
3) Set them to passive and they won’t attack anything at all until you tell them to.

Which one is best obviously depends on the situation – if they’re just attacking the wrong target use F1, if you want them to stop completely use F3 and if you know you’re coming up on a bit where you will be hit and don’t want to hit back use Passive. (For example skipping part of a dungeon.)

Some people go further and just keep the pet on passive all the time and manually order them to attack each target, but I generally don’t find I need that level of micromanagement.

I’m not saying pet AI is actually perfect. There is a lot that could be done to make it better, but this one is usually a L2P issue more than anything.

NO ONE hates the Profession Ranger as a CONCEPT. The execution is god awful, and that’s why everyone hates it.

ANet have defended the class by saying that if you are using a bow, you aren’t playing it right… What? The Ranger shouldn’t fight AT RANGE?! The damage is poor and the AoE sucks. The Trait line is a mess, the AI is beyond poor, and this all makes the character as an individual massively lacking.

The reason the character’s stats are so poor, is because ANet think the Pet should be 50% of the damage and health. That’s fair enough, IF the Pet scaled by your gear and actually did what you told it to do. Of which, it does not.

The Ranger is always seeing nerfs, the Spirit build is really the only viable build of which many other classes can do AND MORE. The brand new GM trait is just a fix for what should already be built in. Better speed? No damage or utility? Why bother…

We’d all love to get the Ranger to work and to feel at least on par with every other class (except for Warrior and Guardian’s, since they are massively broken). Until ANet fire their entire Ranger Development Team, the class will never be what we all envision it to be.

Would it make sense to add in a third option to the pet’s play style options? Something where the pet would only attack an enemy you were actively attacking. It wouldn’t run out just because you aggroed something, but it would attack when you started attacking.

It’s not the players fault that rangers suck, ANet has produced a poor, non-functioning, badly traited, non-synergistic, bugged profession that lacks damage, utility and defense and diversity. The best damage is to play as a warrior, but you are pants compared to a warrior and if you want to play range then pretty much every other profession has better ranged options than the ranger.

Then there is the pet.

Even good players bring very little to a party. Playing a ranger is a selfish role-play indulgence. The question is will ANet change that after that huge CDI that just closed. My guess is no, they will just tinker around the edges and rangers will be just as bad as ever. Just look at what they are giving rangers in the new trait system, you will now be able to spend trait points to remove one of the suckiest problems with long bows. Rather than fix the sucky problem they make rangers have to spend traits to fix the bad design. What’s next, an new trait called pet training to make you pet AI not so utterly kittened? Other professions get bug fixes, rangers don’t unless the “bug” was in the rangers favour.

Nobody in ANet plays a ranger as main and it REALLY shows.

JustARTificial.3175:

NO ONE hates the Profession Ranger as a CONCEPT. The execution is god awful, and that’s why everyone hates it.

Read again. Not everybody hates it. I love it (thus invalidate your statement) even though there are things that could have been implemented better.

Managing the pet correctly takes some practice and I know of people that would like to play a ranger, but don’t care for the mandatory pet. So, they just let it tag along and then they complain that the ranger sucks…

Three words: Point. Blank. Shot.

I should also mention I’m primarily a PvE player and play a lot of fractals and dungeons, where stacking both the party and the mobs is standard. I see far too many bearbow rangers that love to just hit all their skills regardless of what’s going on, and PBS just loves to knock enemies out of all of the carefully stacked AoE, or out of range of the melee classes, etc.

It’s supremely frustrating, but it’s more to do with PvE content not challenging the average Ranger to become a better player before this point in the game.

I don’t want rid of the skill or anything, I just have a personal grudge against the players that spam it regardless in PvE content.

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

JustARTificial.3175:

NO ONE hates the Profession Ranger as a CONCEPT. The execution is god awful, and that’s why everyone hates it.

Read again. Not everybody hates it. I love it (thus invalidate your statement) even though there are things that could have been implemented better.

Managing the pet correctly takes some practice and I know of people that would like to play a ranger, but don’t care for the mandatory pet. So, they just let it tag along and then they complain that the ranger sucks…

No one can say that the Ranger is on par with any other class, without putting their creditability into question. If you like that the class is rubbish by comparison to whatever class you run, go ahead. The Ranger suffers in every area, damage, survivability, support and the pet does not function nearly as well as it should be.

You can’t defend the pet AI, when ANet already have a semi-fix on the way already acknowledging that it’s lacking. The Pet can’t hit a moving target, it’s stats are hideously poor since it has no scaling factor other than levelling which means you’re already missing 50% of the Pet’s health and damage it should possess, and it fails to obey on command (as admitted by ANet).

Even after the pet is fixed, there is still the issue of the trait line being awfully built. Arrows actually making their mark is a GM trait. A GM?! 30 points to fix an issue, which should have been just a hotfix.

ANet haven’t done the class any justice. We’d all love to play Ranger, but knowing that I’m hindered by all of these issues makes it a chore just to overcome the pet AI let alone everything else.

a large % of rangers suck so every 1 assumes every ranger sucks.

so to avoid sucky players they just ignore rangers.

this leads to poor understanding of rangers builds and buffs and leads to them not being taken.

also zerk meta guys if your not a warrior u don’t get inv,

lolol such silly ppl.

tkarr.9152:

Warlord.9074:

We hate the players that play rangers because this profession promotes poor play. And the players that gravitate towards it end up being poor players due to that.

When I say poor play style I mean the class promotes sitting behind a pet to tank and pew pewing from the side or behind the pet. So because of that a lot of rangers never learn how to be effective with their class. Moreso the class being dependent on pets the player themselves without the pet is not as effective as a non pet class.

So its just as important I would say even more important that the ranger knows how to play well. But like I said becasue this profession promotes poor play style and the drawbacks of only being half a player without the pet. Players who are in the know and are skillful often don’t play rangers becasue there are simply better options for skillful play.

Quite the superior complex there but I understand some don’t know how a little tact can go a long way (bows to you in the exalted status in your mind).
I am (as any versatile ranger is) quite capable of putting an arrow in any part of the body as well as the use of the ascended sword (oh wait, that must be for decoration), dagger or axe. OR perhaps you refer to ALL non-heavy neanderthal classes such as thief, ele’s, necromancers??

Different classes have different styles. Go ahead and run in when you are set like a tank, I’ve seen many fall, saved some and rez’d many as well. As I am sure you have if you are half the player you claim with your self expressed expertise at the keyboard (unless you are the kind that runs by people when they are down even if on the same team).

Ya I know what I said sounds like I am saying I am better than other players. What I meant to say is I am better than other players who play rangers becasue my class doesn’t allow me to sit behind a pet and pew pew. All my character has it its body and its skills and dodges. And I was forced to learn how to play because of that. I didn’t have a pet to pew pew behind and tank while I lazy AA behind it.

My profession doesn’t promote bad playing or allow me to do that. I am a better player because of that, and other players don’t gravitate to my class who want to pew pew behind a pet and be lazy. I never said I hated rangers I just hate the people that want to play rangers like that and that is basically the depth of thier abilities they pretty much have made a mockery of the class and a Joke becasue this player base makes up the majority of the ranger playerbase becasue the ranger allows them to do that.

whenever I end up in skyhammer I switch to my ranger and point blank shot everyone. out of the map.

I wonder how they feel after being thrown outside of the map for 5th time in the row.
o.o

I think, as many said before, the problem lies in the commonly used Bearbow build. It is just a build, which so many rangers bring, even in situations, where it is not even close to appropriate. And a fair amount of people playing rangers seem to not know the mechanics of the pet. Yes, the pet AI is messy and fairly useless, but it can get at least mediocre if controlled properly by the player.

That said i LOVE running dungeons with rangers that know how to use their pet, how to use a dfferent weapon from the longbow. Spotter and frost spirit are absolutely genious for group support. A Healing Spring and an ele with blast finishers can really push your group to stay on full health. The sword and warhorn are really nice weapons as well to be used in melee situations or to speed up the run.

I think it always comes down to the fact that we have so many people playing bearbow and it became a bit of a prejustice as well. It makes me sad to see a ranger being kicked from a group only because he chose that profession. But in the end a lot of people are to frightened of looking up a ranger or questioning the prejustices. So they believe them and use them on all Rangers.

Warlord.9074:

Players who are in the know and are skillful often don’t play rangers because there are simply better options for skillful play.

No offense, but this isn’t a fact at all, and just your biased personal opinion. Plenty of great Ranger players out there. In fact, if more players were “in the know” they would also play a Ranger themselves more often, and playing one very well requires more skill than what is being apparent to you (certainly harder to play well than my Guardian and Warrior combined, so “more skillful” in my eyes.)

IME, “people” don’t hate Rangers, just ignorant players do. Judging a player you don’t know for his/her chosen Profession alone, EVEN if he/she is using a bear and/or a bow is ludicrous (what if he/she was just farming elsewhere or running it for any other valid reason?) Good players will do well with any Profession, and thus “people” have no justifiable right to dismiss others on sight by their own prejudices.

Warlord.9074:

We hate the players that play rangers because this profession promotes poor play. And the players that gravitate towards it end up being poor players due to that.

When I say poor play style I mean the class promotes sitting behind a pet to tank and pew pewing from the side or behind the pet. So because of that a lot of rangers never learn how to be effective with their class.

The guy I play with most in GW2 plays a Ranger as his main, “sitting behind a pet to tank and pew pewing from the side or behind the pet”, but it’s not as black and white an issue as you make it out, he’s a GW1 vet’ (no doging in that) so Ranger just so happened to suit the playstyle he was used to, that doesn’t make him a bad or lazy player who doesn’t learn mechanics because he runs other proffessions just fine.
And more often than not I like that he uses pet and stays ranged, I play Theif so if I go down it’s great to have someone who can break agro quickly and come back to get me up (doesn’t happen a lot, but it’s a good fail safe). IMO whether you are in a party of 2 or 5 it helps to have balanced play styles. Whether it’s a Guardian with healing, stability, and other survival helping boons or a “lazy” Ranger supporting me from the distance, somebody has to be the Yin to my Yang. So I prefer to look at the possitives in a proffession rather than the negatives.

That said the one thing that gets me is when a Ranger doesn’t swap or recall their pets when the situation calls for it. But then I don’t play with a Ranger player who is like that or see many other Ranger players who are like that. I think in this case it’s a minority of Rangers that give the decent R players a bad name.

Warlord.9074:

tkarr.9152:

Warlord.9074:

We hate the players that play rangers because this profession promotes poor play. And the players that gravitate towards it end up being poor players due to that.

When I say poor play style I mean the class promotes sitting behind a pet to tank and pew pewing from the side or behind the pet. So because of that a lot of rangers never learn how to be effective with their class. Moreso the class being dependent on pets the player themselves without the pet is not as effective as a non pet class.

So its just as important I would say even more important that the ranger knows how to play well. But like I said becasue this profession promotes poor play style and the drawbacks of only being half a player without the pet. Players who are in the know and are skillful often don’t play rangers becasue there are simply better options for skillful play.

Quite the superior complex there but I understand some don’t know how a little tact can go a long way (bows to you in the exalted status in your mind).
I am (as any versatile ranger is) quite capable of putting an arrow in any part of the body as well as the use of the ascended sword (oh wait, that must be for decoration), dagger or axe. OR perhaps you refer to ALL non-heavy neanderthal classes such as thief, ele’s, necromancers??

Different classes have different styles. Go ahead and run in when you are set like a tank, I’ve seen many fall, saved some and rez’d many as well. As I am sure you have if you are half the player you claim with your self expressed expertise at the keyboard (unless you are the kind that runs by people when they are down even if on the same team).

Ya I know what I said sounds like I am saying I am better than other players. What I meant to say is I am better than other players who play rangers becasue my class doesn’t allow me to sit behind a pet and pew pew. All my character has it its body and its skills and dodges. And I was forced to learn how to play because of that. I didn’t have a pet to pew pew behind and tank while I lazy AA behind it.

My profession doesn’t promote bad playing or allow me to do that. I am a better player because of that, and other players don’t gravitate to my class who want to pew pew behind a pet and be lazy. I never said I hated rangers I just hate the people that want to play rangers like that and that is basically the depth of thier abilities they pretty much have made a mockery of the class and a Joke becasue this player base makes up the majority of the ranger playerbase becasue the ranger allows them to do that.

Again, I recommend to get this out of your mind because Rangers are not about this silly prejudice you have. It is rather insulting, and the reason I post a second time about it. “Pew pew” behind a pet, “promoting lazy play” doesn’t even sound like a good argument to attack Rangers with at all.

You should love “your Profession” but it doesn’t make the Ranger a “lazy” or “bad” Profession for being different-never mind the Ranger has perfectly wonderful melee abilities to match that of “your Profession”, as well as support abilities no other “non-lazy” Profession has.

Sandpit.3467:

It’s not the players fault that rangers suck, ANet has produced a poor, non-functioning, badly traited, non-synergistic, bugged profession that lacks damage, utility and defense and diversity. The best damage is to play as a warrior, but you are pants compared to a warrior and if you want to play range then pretty much every other profession has better ranged options than the ranger.

Then there is the pet.

Even good players bring very little to a party. Playing a ranger is a selfish role-play indulgence. The question is will ANet change that after that huge CDI that just closed. My guess is no, they will just tinker around the edges and rangers will be just as bad as ever. Just look at what they are giving rangers in the new trait system, you will now be able to spend trait points to remove one of the suckiest problems with long bows. Rather than fix the sucky problem they make rangers have to spend traits to fix the bad design. What’s next, an new trait called pet training to make you pet AI not so utterly kittened? Other professions get bug fixes, rangers don’t unless the “bug” was in the rangers favour.

Nobody in ANet plays a ranger as main and it REALLY shows.

Everything above can be argued against and proven wrong. :/ I will give you only the traits could be arranged better, as well as some bugs.

And for the zillionth time, Ranger has nothing to do with range-has had never, ever anything historically to do with the verb “to range”, other than some Rangers have been archers (and certainly not all).

Star Ace.5207:

Sandpit.3467:

It’s not the players fault that rangers suck, ANet has produced a poor, non-functioning, badly traited, non-synergistic, bugged profession that lacks damage, utility and defense and diversity. The best damage is to play as a warrior, but you are pants compared to a warrior and if you want to play range then pretty much every other profession has better ranged options than the ranger.

Then there is the pet.

Even good players bring very little to a party. Playing a ranger is a selfish role-play indulgence. The question is will ANet change that after that huge CDI that just closed. My guess is no, they will just tinker around the edges and rangers will be just as bad as ever. Just look at what they are giving rangers in the new trait system, you will now be able to spend trait points to remove one of the suckiest problems with long bows. Rather than fix the sucky problem they make rangers have to spend traits to fix the bad design. What’s next, an new trait called pet training to make you pet AI not so utterly kittened? Other professions get bug fixes, rangers don’t unless the “bug” was in the rangers favour.

Nobody in ANet plays a ranger as main and it REALLY shows.

Everything above can be argued against and proven wrong. :/ I will give you only the traits could be arranged better, as well as some bugs.

And for the zillionth time, Ranger has nothing to do with range-has had never, ever anything historically to do with the verb “to range”, other than some Rangers have been archers (and certainly not all).

The fact ANet had a guy say; “If you’re a Ranger with a bow, you’re doing it wrong” is right on the money as to what ANet think of the class. The fact that bows aren’t even viable by that guy’s (ANet employee) standard means that even trying to main a range option is out of the question thus limiting ‘viable’ builds.

There should be way more benefit to a Ranger opting for Bow, than a Warrior with a Rifle except there isn’t. I’m not expecting someone to be able to just kite all day and do insane damage with a Pet for harass, just wish that it were a ‘viable’ option.

Why do I dislike rangers.

Mostly because the players are taught bad habits as they level up. They are not challenged by any enemy in the world. They stand in a single spot and shoot a bow at something while the pet tanks. If the monster aggros on them they run like a chicken with their head cut off without regard to positioning because the game never teaches the necessity.

And Point Blank Shot makes me want to punch a baby.

Then when you go to WvWvW you notice how awful the class truly is. They have no damage output because much of it is tied in a pet that will never hit it’s target.

It’s not a coincidence that Ranger’s won the “What class needs the most work” CDI poll hands down. They are the bottom of the totem pole in their current state.

I played a Ranger in GW1. Good class. Quite capable. It most certainly isn’t the same in GW2.

Ultimately the hate is boiled down to;
If I max out this class, and play to the absolute peak of the learning curve, am I going to see the same rewards or better than other classes?

The answer is no. A moderate Warrior will outdo an Expert Ranger (PvE or PvP), simply because the Warrior sees a greater return than the Ranger. That curve on Class vs Class diminishes, but it still exists and the Ranger is at the bottom.

I’m not questioning whether you are a good ranger/player or not. I’m simply saying that the Ranger doesn’t see as great as a reward as others, when they put in the same if not more investment into the Ranger.

I would love to play a ranger. Medium armor and GS + Longbow, how awesome isn’t that setup? Like born to be a headhunter who could even compete with Thieves regarding stalking and assassinations.

But then there’s this HUGE design flaw. A design flaw that goes down to the core of the class and rots its very foundations: The Godforsaken Fudging Pet.

A-net should have swallowed their pretentious pride in trying to make a ‘unique’ class and just gone for what works: An Archer Class. A class that does not need to rely on stupid AI and bad control mechanics. A class that can take care of it-kittening-self.

Funny, since I use an all ranged ranger (SB + LB) with Hyena/Fernhound and Drakehound. Usually the last man standing in dungeons, often completing half the combat myself when all around me have turned to mush.

I sort of agree with the comments about some rangers don’t know how to melee however. My second ranger does have a melee build, and it took a while to learn how to be effective with it.

I also admit that it was a while before I realised I could passive the pet… but it was one of my first characters and I’d never played an MMO’rpg’ before. I wish I could turn it off permanently, but I know that Anet only listens to its pet players, and ignores the rest of us.

Xzaander.4123:

I would love to play a ranger. Medium armor and GS + Longbow, how awesome isn’t that setup? Like born to be a headhunter who could even compete with Thieves regarding stalking and assassinations.

But then there’s this HUGE design flaw. A design flaw that goes down to the core of the class and rots its very foundations: The Godforsaken Fudging Pet.

A-net should have swallowed their pretentious pride in trying to make a ‘unique’ class and just gone for what works: An Archer Class. A class that does not need to rely on stupid AI and bad control mechanics. A class that can take care of it-kittening-self.

How ironic, my Ranger currently uses Greatsword/Longbow (or Shortbow), has a helpful pet, and doesn’t need anyone to look after her. In short, your hate of the Profession is not shared by all.

You can still use your Ranger as an archer if you like anyway. Isn’t that many people’s common complaint about “Ranger players”? That “they” like their bow too much?

(I personally don’t care if you use a bow or not, however. I like bows too. But I am glad Rangers weren’t forced to be the Archer archetype only, for there is more to Rangers than arrows.)

No offense intended-just as an example of how much of a myth this “Ranger sucks, I hate them, the pet is horrible!” statement can be.

I don’t think anyone hates rangers but they just don’t really contribute much to a group. PvE-wise, every other class has something which can make or break a run, but rangers just don’t have much besides OK damage.

BigHammer.5367:

Three words: Point. Blank. Shot.

I should also mention I’m primarily a PvE player and play a lot of fractals and dungeons, where stacking both the party and the mobs is standard. I see far too many bearbow rangers that love to just hit all their skills regardless of what’s going on, and PBS just loves to knock enemies out of all of the carefully stacked AoE, or out of range of the melee classes, etc.

It’s supremely frustrating, but it’s more to do with PvE content not challenging the average Ranger to become a better player before this point in the game.

This. 1000X this. Even if rangers get everything else fixed and improved, I will still not want rangers in my groups if Point Blank Shot doesn’t get fixed.

Hating on rangers is just the cool thing to do right now. Most people just say they hate rangers, even though many know nothing about the class :P

Rangers are hated in PvE and WvW (they are fine in sPvP since elementalists are far far far worse than any kind of rangers in that game type):

- Because the worst class among all classes due to its mechanics.
- Because there are other classes that can much more helpful to any group/zerg than rangers in terms of damage and healing and buffing.
- Because the amount of noobs that play rangers is over 9000
- Because when you type “Rangers suck” in mapchat, reading that funny arguments of rangers is fun =)

Also, my hate list is 1) Guests 2) Ranger Guests 3) Rangers.

Funny thing is, with opening srike on me and my pet, plus LB #2, I can lay a ton of vuln down on the enemy. Ok, in larger groups the value of this is diminished, but in small groups/solo, I can obliterate most mobs with ridiculous speed.

Whilst there is one profession which deals more damage with one solid build than any other in the game, all other professions will be deemed of lesser value.

GW has always been and probably will always be like that. Warriors only tolerate having one Guardian in the group sometimes as a safety net, let’s face it… I also can’t believe for a second that Ferocity will change this other than slowing down speedruns slightly.

It’s also very true that when most Rangers are played very badly, (one arrow every second off a longbow with a bear at your side, usually nothing in the way of support and still those players drop in seconds should they take any damage), it’s very easy to assume all are like that. As a profession though, they’re fine for running around completing content. “Fine”.

BigHammer.5367:

Three words: Point. Blank. Shot.

I should also mention I’m primarily a PvE player and play a lot of fractals and dungeons, where stacking both the party and the mobs is standard. I see far too many bearbow rangers that love to just hit all their skills regardless of what’s going on, and PBS just loves to knock enemies out of all of the carefully stacked AoE, or out of range of the melee classes, etc.

It’s supremely frustrating, but it’s more to do with PvE content not challenging the average Ranger to become a better player before this point in the game.

I don’t want rid of the skill or anything, I just have a personal grudge against the players that spam it regardless in PvE content.

Misuse of PBS is endemic in this game. Its purpose is as an interrupt, as a means to keep a melee target that is moving towards the ranger away, but primarily to push the target further away, where LB #1 does more damage. The rangers that get me are the ones that use PBS, then move in to melee range on their target — all the while shooting LB1.

So, no, I don’t hate rangers. I do get exasperated when people don’t have a clue, and that can happen with any profession.

Xae Isareth.1364:

I don’t think anyone hates rangers but they just don’t really contribute much to a group. PvE-wise, every other class has something which can make or break a run, but rangers just don’t have much besides OK damage.

Not really true with Spotter and Frost Spirit, though I’d prefer there were more builds that were also great other than that setup for groups. It’s way more than just “OK” damage as it adds up nicely.

Star Ace.5207:

Xzaander.4123:

I would love to play a ranger. Medium armor and GS + Longbow, how awesome isn’t that setup? Like born to be a headhunter who could even compete with Thieves regarding stalking and assassinations.

But then there’s this HUGE design flaw. A design flaw that goes down to the core of the class and rots its very foundations: The Godforsaken Fudging Pet.

A-net should have swallowed their pretentious pride in trying to make a ‘unique’ class and just gone for what works: An Archer Class. A class that does not need to rely on stupid AI and bad control mechanics. A class that can take care of it-kittening-self.

How ironic, my Ranger currently uses Greatsword/Longbow (or Shortbow), has a helpful pet, and doesn’t need anyone to look after her. In short, your hate of the Profession is not shared by all.

You can still use your Ranger as an archer if you like anyway. Isn’t that many people’s common complaint about “Ranger players”? That “they” like their bow too much?

(I personally don’t care if you use a bow or not, however. I like bows too. But I am glad Rangers weren’t forced to be the Archer archetype only, for there is more to Rangers than arrows.)

No offense intended-just as an example of how much of a myth this “Ranger sucks, I hate them, the pet is horrible!” statement can be.

No offense taken, you clearly like the class and has l2p it. I for one like archer classes, but even if I wanted to learn how to use pets properly I would loathe the idea of being “forced” to. I like the suggestion that someone here made that the ranger could get some personal stat bonus when stowing the pet. This would work wonders if rangers had the choice to stow the pet permanently. But I guess the trait system kinda sometimes forces you to still have a pet available in combat.

You can level a Ranger to 80 in PvE and never dodge once. Many rangers have done this. Actually, if your constantly minding your pets, because of their admittedly broken mechanic, and trying to not jump off the cliff with your sword, (another major mechanic finally being changed) you don’t have a lot of time to experiment with dodge.

Now, at 80 with good gear, enter Dungeons, WvW, PvP, where all you really have to do is dodge and you get instant hatred from the other classes who cant understand how you can be so bad. Add the broken pets and well…..

So is it wrong to have a profession that doesn’t have to dodge much at all, or is it wrong to make dodge the main mechanic in the game for everyone else, or is there something in between?

The ONLY thing I dislike about Rangers being near me is those ones who somehow feel the need to hit things that me, or a group of people are meleeing with a knockback arrow. It’s really annoying and unnecessary majority of the time.

Then there’s some things their pets just mess up in fractals and dungeons if they don’t keep them at bay which poor pet mechanics could be blamed for. That doesn’t keep me from inviting them though.

In Guild Wars 1, Rangers were labeled as “The jack of all trades”, meaning that Rangers could do everything any other class could do, but less proficiently.

It’s the same in Guild Wars 2. If you build pure berserker, you’ll do less damage than other berserkers. If you build pure tank, you’ll be less tanky than other tanks. This is why I encourage most if not all Rangers to mix their stats, and not build like a glass cannon or a tank… because Rangers are meant to mix-and-match stats, and that is where they shine.

DaShi.1368:

BigHammer.5367:

Three words: Point. Blank. Shot.

I should also mention I’m primarily a PvE player and play a lot of fractals and dungeons, where stacking both the party and the mobs is standard. I see far too many bearbow rangers that love to just hit all their skills regardless of what’s going on, and PBS just loves to knock enemies out of all of the carefully stacked AoE, or out of range of the melee classes, etc.

It’s supremely frustrating, but it’s more to do with PvE content not challenging the average Ranger to become a better player before this point in the game.

This. 1000X this. Even if rangers get everything else fixed and improved, I will still not want rangers in my groups if Point Blank Shot doesn’t get fixed.

If by “fixed” you mean: “point blank shot is no longer a knockback,” I disagree. Point blank shot is fine.

It’s funny how much everyone hates on point blank shot, but completely ignore skills like:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Knockback
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Launch

All of the skills listed in those categories are equally irritating when used improperly. (For the record, I have never once seen a mesmer use Illusionary wave properly)

Sarie.1630:

Whilst there is one profession which deals more damage with one solid build than any other in the game, all other professions will be deemed of lesser value.

GW has always been and probably will always be like that. Warriors only tolerate having one Guardian in the group sometimes as a safety net, let’s face it… I also can’t believe for a second that Ferocity will change this other than slowing down speedruns slightly.

Are you implying that warriors deal more damage than every other profession? I hate to break it to you, but a full zerker guardian deals more damage than a full zerker warrior when all buffs are equal. (And if your group has a warrior in it, they should be)

Because the people who play pet-based classes tend to be not very good at them. The reason why is because they don’t understand the philosophical part of the profession.

Most of the time, the player thinks of their pet as a meatshield or extra DPS when infact they should be thinking of their pet as an extension of their character and companion. Since there are two bodies being controlled here, the player has to coordinate between them.

But most of those players fail to coordinate with their pet so they end up sucking.

This is coming from a WoW Hunter that could out DPS anyone in PvM and then go into PvP with the same gear and completely wreck in 3v8+

*Disclaimer – This post assumes that builds ran by ALL classes are NOT meta, therefore the reasoning behind not hating certain classses even when they run a non optimal build.

Even without the holy trinity I still think when a group joins together, be it for a world meta event, dungeon group, fotm etc… they should work as a team, even if it is just random Pugs with assorted builds. It feels like a majority of rangers play their ranger as if it were open world, where you are solo without a team. Triple sigs, 1500 range, bear pets (Which cant tank since theres people meleeing so its not actually tanking, just doing bad damage). To me when people play like its everyone for themselves, its not as fun.

A ele ranging will at least drop water fields on me or fire fields for me to blast etc. A necro ranging can help me out dropping the wells on the mobs that im meleeing. A engi nade from 1500 range does the blinds, etc. Guardian scepter/staff, I just hope they are close enough if they ever decide to pop a stability or virtue to share it with me (Although some never do , guards are still valued), A thief range doesnt help too much but people generally realize thief can be insanely high DPS so they are turned a blind eye. Warriors, are forever grandfathered in as OP(Not saying its true but its generally accepted in community that warriors are good enough no matter what)

Rangers, even if they provide good DPS (Debateable but give them benefit of the doubt they are at least contributing “OK” DPS), is just DPS, nothing more. The bow provides bleeds and/or direct damage mostly. They have no “Spells” since they arent a magic user and “spells” tend to affect enemys and allies. They are a raw DPS/Condi class but are outperformed by the other types of DPS/Condi class: Thief/Warrior, which ive discussed why people like them. If they dont run spotter/frost spirit, it just seems like things are suboptimal, even if they are doing decent damage with a bow at 1500.

Quarktastic.1027:

DaShi.1368:

BigHammer.5367:

Three words: Point. Blank. Shot.

I should also mention I’m primarily a PvE player and play a lot of fractals and dungeons, where stacking both the party and the mobs is standard. I see far too many bearbow rangers that love to just hit all their skills regardless of what’s going on, and PBS just loves to knock enemies out of all of the carefully stacked AoE, or out of range of the melee classes, etc.

It’s supremely frustrating, but it’s more to do with PvE content not challenging the average Ranger to become a better player before this point in the game.

This. 1000X this. Even if rangers get everything else fixed and improved, I will still not want rangers in my groups if Point Blank Shot doesn’t get fixed.

If by “fixed” you mean: “point blank shot is no longer a knockback,” I disagree. Point blank shot is fine.

It’s funny how much everyone hates on point blank shot, but completely ignore skills like:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Knockback
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Launch

All of the skills listed in those categories are equally irritating when used improperly. (For the record, I have never once seen a mesmer use Illusionary wave properly)

Illusionary wave needs a much closer range, has a twice as long cooldown, and doesn’t knock the opponent as far as point blank shot. There is no equivalent to point blank shot in range, cooldown, and distance. It is a ridiculous skill that does not contribute to group play at all. The skill needs to be fixed.