Guild Wars 2

I was there when WoW released. It had just as many bugs, and Blizzard was just as slow at fixing them as Arenanet is now. They weren’t expecting such huge success, they were understaffed, and unprepared.

People said the game was going to fail because of the bugs, the game was dying because it was too casual, Blizzard couldn’t handle such a large project, or whatever other reason they could think of. It became the premier MMO for the next eight years, not saying GW2 will follow suit, but it isn’t failing.

Stop whining, you’re wrong.

That is all.

WoW is still filled with bugs.

What made WoW successful is it made the masses want to come back for more. Can the same be said about GW2? Will the average joe still be interested when arenanet tries to sell extra content down the line?

robot.9134:

You spelled concept wrong.

Nope, my real name is Conn.

I like GW2 as much as anyone, but what WoW did 8 years ago has nothing to do with whether GW2 succeeds or not.

I didn’t quit because of the bugs, those are expected.
I quit because of the lack or support and the bullkitten diminishin returns system.
Not to mention the lack of endgame.

MMOs are filled with numerous bugs. MMO launches are filled with even more. It just comes with the genre of video game. Expecting everything an absolute perfect game with flawless gameplay balance between professions, quest that never bug, and a game client that never crashes; is just setting themselves up for disappointment.

People will quit. Doesn’t mean the game will die.

If Anet keeps doing what they’re doing, it will die.

vengeance.7529:

If Anet keeps doing what they’re doing, it will die.

That’s a little too extreme. But i agree with you on the DR.

swagjuice.9270:

People will quit. Doesn’t mean the game will die.

Well, depends on how many quit, and if they come back. For the game to stay alive, it has to remain profitable. For WoW, this meant keeping subscriptions. For GW2, this means that months, years down the line it still has to get people excited enough to want to make gem store purchases, to purchase expansions, and to continue discussing the game to get other people interested in it. If these don’t occur, and the general public loses interest, it easily could die. NCSoft just shut down City of Heroes and their developer, could happen here as well if interest dies off.

“The reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated.”
Mark Twain and every MMO ever.

sure wow was bugged. Most MMORPG are. the difference is in severity, abundance and where it is bugged.

In WoW, a bug here or there didn’t stop you from completing quests or zones. Generally swiftly patched (weekly).

My most recent game was Rift; lot of bugs also, bt generally never in such a way as to interfere with in game progress. And as far as I can remember, swiftly patched.

GW2? Skill point bugged.
that means you can’t complete the zone. GG.
that means you can’t get your skill point. GG.

Event bug?
that means you can’t complete the zone. GG.
that means you can’t open the vendor. GG.
that means you won’t get xp there. It’s a dead area. literally. GG.

move onto another event?
It’s also bugged. GG.

move into another similar level zone?
It’s also bugged GG.

Timerblines skill point is still bugged along with 1 or 2 events. Weeks now.
Human starter zone skill point and some DE are bugged. At least a week now.

Many of these things simply aren’t getting fixed. Sometimes they get fixed, work a few times then bug right out again. In the grand scheme o fthings, these aren’t major bugs but the number of them centered around the core areas of gameplay make it more frustrating than usual, even by mmo standards.

I dont know why people compare this to wow this game has no monthly sub and that is a huge difference. This game will remain popular for only that reason and its a good enough game to play even if they just never touched it again.

It already succeed, therefore it did not “fail”.

Jokes on all of you microeconomic deprived individuals.

agreed Irishbrewed, it was already an success as they have made their money back invested.

If I could, I’d easily spend U$ 500 every month in this game.

Though I’d probably get to a point where I had nothing else to buy, but the game is that good.

Whiners exist in every game, every launch, every bug. Also, they tend to think they’re majority most of the time. How many whiners haven’t you seen plague the WoW forum since BC?
I read the forums there alot (because I was most of the time at work doing nothing interesting), and I did see ALOT of it. The game remained strong until they dropped the ball with Cataclysm.
At that time, whiners were also there, there have been complaints, just like any other time. This time though it was a bit more serious… a bit 2~3 million more serious.

If this game bombs, it will mostly be because of homogenized class roles, shallow combat, lack of bar customizability, largely unengaging group dynamics and content structure geared toward singleplayer experience.

AndrewWaltfeld.4621:

agreed Irishbrewed, it was already an success as they have made their money back invested.

No sub model, meaning overhead and expenditures are not calculated on a “player numerical value”. They do not adhere to the same business model of what these individuals are use to basing their ignorant opinion of “failure” within the venture. Their analytics do not deprive on “x” number of subs. Rather on direct capital flow within the game itself. if there was hard data on the actual “running cost” of the departments and the actual “revenue stream” then you can make an intelligent forecast on their profit margins. Either way you are discussing “profit”.

In “gamer” terms, this topic is simply a forum debate that is based on irrelevant and ignorant terms that make no business sense what so ever. It’s merely a thread topic that which holds no validity because it’s bases is on “do I like the game”. Which is a very flawed and selfish view that ignores the reality of economics. Business does not abide by this oversimplified logic.

bwillb.2165:

If these don’t occur, and the general public loses interest, it easily could die. NCSoft just shut down City of Heroes and their developer, could happen here as well if interest dies off.

City of Heroes is 8 years old. If Guild Wars 2 is around in 8 years’ time, I think we can consider it a success.

Even The Secret World will keep on going, and that only has about 6 players.

GW2 has already sold millions of copies. Even if hundreds of thousands of people leave, it will still have a strong regular player base, and plenty of the people who stopped playing will probably return for expansions.

Who cares if the player base is not as big as WoWs? I doubt ArenaNet cares; they were even willing to stop selling the game to avoid going over capacity. That’s how many copies it sold. Everything suggests the game has exceeded expectations. It’ll be fine.

Downstairs Eddie.8125:

bwillb.2165:

If these don’t occur, and the general public loses interest, it easily could die. NCSoft just shut down City of Heroes and their developer, could happen here as well if interest dies off.

City of Heroes is 8 years old. If Guild Wars 2 is around in 8 years’ time, I think we can consider it a success.

Even The Secret World will keep on going, and that only has about 6 players.

GW2 has already sold millions of copies. Even if hundreds of thousands of people leave, it will still have a strong regular player base, and plenty of the people who stopped playing will probably return for expansions.

Who cares if the player base is not as big as WoWs? I doubt ArenaNet cares; they were even willing to stop selling the game to avoid going over capacity. That’s how many copies it sold. Everything suggests the game has exceeded expectations. It’ll be fine.

oh god, they stopped sales because of the hacking. they couldnt risk other people buying the game through THEIR database/store with that massive potential of having brand new customers possibly having their accounts compromised.

jesus, you could still buy the game from retailers and online stores. if they were that ‘concerned’ over capacity they would have sent out a request for all retail/online to cease sales till notified.

fanboys will make up any bullkitten to claim like gw2 is some epic game. NO, the game is dying faster than a snowflake in a microwave.

never before have i seen a product especially an mmo in such high demand for refunds. that proves one thing, anet blowing smoke all these years didnt fool anyone once they got their hands on the trash pile game they released.

gw2 has more problems, more north korean implementation in the game than any other ‘gear treadmill’ game out there. and they have the nerve to crack off at other gaming companies.

InfiniteRetro.9865:

oh god, they stopped sales because of the hacking. they couldnt risk other people buying the game through THEIR database/store with that massive potential of having brand new customers possibly having their accounts compromised.

jesus, you could still buy the game from retailers and online stores. if they were that ‘concerned’ over capacity they would have sent out a request for all retail/online to cease sales till notified.

fanboys will make up any bullkitten to claim like gw2 is some epic game. NO, the game is dying faster than a snowflake in a microwave.

never before have i seen a product especially an mmo in such high demand for refunds. that proves one thing, anet blowing smoke all these years didnt fool anyone once they got their hands on the trash pile game they released.

gw2 has more problems, more north korean implementation in the game than any other ‘gear treadmill’ game out there. and they have the nerve to crack off at other gaming companies.

I remember you as the guy who made those psychopathic YouTube videos criticising every single aspect of the game well before it was released. So I don’t think I’ll be taking your rantings as fact, and neither should anybody else. Sorry.

InfiniteRetro.9865:

Downstairs Eddie.8125:

InfiniteRetro.9865:

oh god, they stopped sales because of the hacking. they couldnt risk other people buying the game through THEIR database/store with that massive potential of having brand new customers possibly having their accounts compromised.

jesus, you could still buy the game from retailers and online stores. if they were that ‘concerned’ over capacity they would have sent out a request for all retail/online to cease sales till notified.

fanboys will make up any bullkitten to claim like gw2 is some epic game. NO, the game is dying faster than a snowflake in a microwave.

never before have i seen a product especially an mmo in such high demand for refunds. that proves one thing, anet blowing smoke all these years didnt fool anyone once they got their hands on the trash pile game they released.

gw2 has more problems, more north korean implementation in the game than any other ‘gear treadmill’ game out there. and they have the nerve to crack off at other gaming companies.

I remember you as the guy who made those psychopathic YouTube videos criticising every single aspect of the game well before it was released. So I don’t think I’ll be taking your rantings as fact, and neither should anybody else. Sorry.

well every single aspect of the game is trash LOL psychopathic? of course, naturally, after all it is only a videogame. i make good money too. you’re just mad i was right lol

I like the game and you’re a masochist.

Disclaimer: the use of the word “fanboys” in no way indicates an intelligent, well thought out and fact filled post with citations

No one is going to win this argument. It’s just going to be trolls trolling trolls.

Zale.9645:

No one is going to win this argument. It’s just going to be trolls trolling trolls.

Welcome to the Troll Zoo. Please do not feed the Trolls, and keep your distance from the cages. Children should be supervised at all times. Enjoy your stay!

lothefallen.7081:

If this game bombs, it will mostly be because of homogenized class roles, shallow combat, lack of bar customizability, largely unengaging group dynamics and content structure geared toward singleplayer experience.

How do you get that the “content structure” is “geared towards singleplayer experience?”

You don’t have to compete to “tag” mobs in order to get XP off of them, I constantly see people rush towards a downed or killed player icon on the map, when a DE lights up, people show up from every direction to participate, etc.

If anything, this game encourages cooperative rather than antagonistic behaviors that typify just about every other MMO I’ve played.

because WoW is obviously the standard by which a games success or failure should be calculated.

for every case you can show me where a game that launched with problems has come back strong I can show you one where it struggled to go anywhere at all.

truth is at this point in time you can’t tell whether the game will succeed or fail.

vengeance.7529:

If Anet keeps doing what they’re doing, it will die.

Your sig says you are in the top 70 to reach lvl 80, so I take it you reached 80 in less then 3 days.

dont complan about “no endgame” when you stayed up 36 hours on release, and prob play 10 hours a day………lol what a joke

i think the game will be doing well. Anyways, it really is a matter of how you define fail. Economically I doubt a failure. I do not know their break even point, but I suspect they exceeded it by a solid amount from the copies already sold.

vengeance.7529:

I didn’t quit because of the bugs, those are expected.
I quit because of the lack or support and the bullkitten diminishin returns system.
Not to mention the lack of endgame.

^^^^ was quoting this post in my above post

tolunart.2095:

“The reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated.”
Mark Twain and every MMO ever.

But eventually Mark Twain died one day… and so did quite a few MMOs too.

On the WoW thing: WoW had far less competion back then. Even F2P games are dying these days, look at City of Heroes which will close in a few months.

Kerri Knight.3168:

lothefallen.7081:

If this game bombs, it will mostly be because of homogenized class roles, shallow combat, lack of bar customizability, largely unengaging group dynamics and content structure geared toward singleplayer experience.

How do you get that the “content structure” is “geared towards singleplayer experience?”

You don’t have to compete to “tag” mobs in order to get XP off of them, I constantly see people rush towards a downed or killed player icon on the map, when a DE lights up, people show up from every direction to participate, etc.

If anything, this game encourages cooperative rather than antagonistic behaviors that typify just about every other MMO I’ve played.

don’t bother arguing with him.

i know him from another forum. he just posts the same kitten, every single time and completely ignores any argument and only posts in topics that are wholly negative to say, “i agree. here’s my copy-pasted paragraph filled with the same stale buzzwords and complaints.”

he loves going into topics that have nothing to do with what he loves to post about (shallow combat and homogenized class roles) before interjecting with his own comment, going completely off-topic and inserting his copy-pasted paragraph immediately afterwords.

WvW is where long term success or failure will be determined.

I sincerely hope that’s GW2 survival is not dependant on some simularities it happens to have with another game…

I played WoW since vanilla, till last week actually, and i might go back for the panda’s who knows… just throwing this in here to say I do know how WoW started and the issues it had or did not have.

This said: I truely believe the starting history of WoW is irrelevant to the start of any MMO today.

People were much more forgiving when WoW started, simply because they broke open the genre and suddenly made it accessible where other games took ages of dedication to achieve something.

Since than players have become spoiled. One of the reasons WoW isn’t killed by any other game yet, is because the playerbase is used to a game streamlined over 8 years… where the new games are just that: new and unpolished.

GW2 better not rely for it’s survivability on the player mentality of 8 years ago…
The game is innovating and fresh, that should remain it’s biggest trump card, NOT the hope that players will forgive things they forgave 8 years ago when the MMO world broke open.

Reading the forums of an MMO franchise really makes people lose faith in humanity.

Gw2 will do well because, unlike people are led to believe from these forums, the game is very enjoyable and sociable.
When ArenaNet took node competition, kill stealing, loot stealing and general griefing out of the game it really changed how players perceive and react to each other in the game.
It was a stroke of genius imo- I can’t imagine going back to that kind of environment in a game.

Gw2 also requires that you have the ability to set your own goals to an extent and I welcome that since I don’t feel like the game is treating me like a toddler.

If you look at the vibe in the game itself, it is clear that people are having fun and generally just running around enjoying themselves. It is really ironic that the vibe on these forums seem to be the exact opposite .

It won’t fail because it successfully fills a market segment of the gaming world who have wanted something different for a long time. The thing is, you have to pay full price to find out if you’re going to be one of the happy consumers as opposed to a sub to try for 15 bucks or even a trial for free.

But ArenaNet advertised for years prior to release. If what you got was not what you expected, its because you didn’t do your own due diligence.

Its a good game. And when most of the content locusts swarm to the next new n’ shiny and the populations level off, it will still be a good game.

I have every faith in ANet that they will get it right in the long term. I’m especially positive that they will figure out what sort of balance needs to be set up for “endgame” to work properly.

While they’re not the only MMO to feature dynamic events, they ARE the only one to make them all deep and story-driven. They will have to find the best way to make good, large, dynamic events that are challenging enough that hardcore players will stick around for them. They don’t have “raids,” though I’ve seen some cool concepts for them in the forums (instanced, huge meta-events, for instance).

Anyway, I digress. GW2 is positively not going to go anywhere for a very long time, and I’m sure they’ll fill it out appropriately.

Ahahahaha. Infinite Retro has showed up. I swear, I read the post and immediately thought ‘what is this, bald at games?’ then looked at the username.

Anyway, I’m having fun. My RL friends and guildmates are having fun. Plenty of people on every server are having fun. Looks like success to me. I don’t give a kitten how long it lasts.

Conncept.7638:

Nope, my real name is Conn.

No one else did it? Ok..

“in best William Shatner voice”

Khaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan!!!

The real test of any MMO isn’t the month after the launch. It’s where the game is six months after the launch. Or one year.

Post this again after that time has passed. Launching an MMO is no mean feat but as we’ve seen in the past, it’s not what really counts. ArenaNet’s real test has only started.

Given their past with supporting GW1 and what I’ve seen so far with GW2, I’d be willing to put my bet on them.

Maurier.6094:

3 months, game will be deader than dead.

Laugh if you like just remember it in 3 months time

Fail game is fail.

I will remember. And I’ll see you in 3 months.

I’ve seen fail games. I’ve been there for Warhammer and Age of Conan. I’ve watched the trainwrecks that were Vanguard and Tabula Rasa.

You sir, need to learn to recognize what fail truly is.

Whether or not “Guild Wars 2” fails for the most part is based on your definition of fail. End of story. The market’s definition of failure is very different than ours.

To counter the panda lovers…

Nearly every night on Teamspeak, everyone in my group is saying how much fun we had, and how awesome the game is, before going to sleep. “See you tomorrow,” is every night as well, and I’m talking about mostly strangers here. We’ve melded together and there is something special in the mentality here. I can’t even explain last night’s craziness, but I assure you it is going to be the #1 gaming memory for a long time. And this has happened more than once. GW2 has given me more than one #1 gaming memories. It keeps beating itself in how awesome it is.

How many times did you go on TS/Vent/Mumble in WoW, and your friends said, “Yeah I’m just grinding X for the raid next week.” Or grinding X or Y or Z thing? And they didn’t want to play with you because it slowed down their grind. And they didn’t want to do anything else because if they didn’t come with 4 hours worth of raid materials they wouldn’t get a raid invite. WoW and all it’s clones trained you to think about gaming that way, and GW2 enlightens you in a way that hasn’t been around for years. It comes down to fun, and comparing the fun in GW2 vs. any other game, it is a smashing success. Ask yourself as you play Pandas and see cartoon graphics and simple animations if you are having fun grinding that mob. The most fun you have is in group instance runs, and you know it. GW2 does all those things better, without punishing you for playing with others.

Vexus.5423:

How many times did you go on TS/Vent/Mumble in WoW, and your friends said, “Yeah I’m just grinding X for the raid next week.”

many times, yet they still dropped it to play together (or if I also needed to farm something we worked together) because I played with people worth a kitten and in GW2 shock and horror every time I’ve started a conversation with my friends as they play they almost always respond with “I’m just grinding X for Y”

People did not “forgive” WoW when it started. There were already several strong competitors (ironically, the venerable and wonderful City of Heroes was one of them – for a very brief time before WoW hit its stride it beat EQ and was THE biggest Western MMO), and there were tons of complaints about how “dumbed down” WoW was and how fast and easy it was to get to level cap (i.e. compared to EQ).

But we know how that turned out.

WoW was a huge success for several reasons, but one of the reasons was that Blizz reached out to players who wouldn’t previously have tolerated some of the MMO conventions – i.e. they “streamlined” the EQ style of MMO and thereby opened up the genre to new players.

Anet are doing something similar – with GW and GW2 they are reaching out to players who wouldn’t normally tolerate some of the conventions of MMOs that have set in because of the subscription model.

Of course it remains to be seen whether they will be successful in attracting players new to the genre, like Blizz were. My personal feeling is that they will be, and that this will counterbalance some of the attrition of players used to the older EQ/WoW (DIKU MUD for those who know ) design.