Guild Wars 2

I’ve seen allot of complaints, but the one that makes me snicker most is that Guild Wars 2 is too casual now. Let me state something clear and simple.

Guild Wars 2 was always casual. Chances are the majority of you have never played a difficult MMORPG. Don’t believe me? Go hunt down the Game Informer issue that reviewed WoW. They praise how ‘accessible and incredibly easy!’ the game was. Why would they say this?

because it was

Like WoW, Guild Wars isn’t hard. Guild Wars was never meant to be hard. End game content =/= difficulty. There are allot of criticisms of Guild Wars 2 but this one isn’t particularly valid. Do you want to know what a hardcore MMORPG looks like? It looks nothing like this game did at any point in development.

Lets look at Ultima Online. Ultima Online is brutal. Its so brutal that in the “End of beta” speech. Lord British, the figurehead of the game, being controlled by Richard Garriott, the creator of the lauded ultima series…was murdered in the middle of his statement.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-sgSFWbMIAhs/ThyrXE8BrvI/AAAAAAAAAQM/VB7wYlGCFCU/s1600/LordBritishIsDead.jpg
What happened after Lord British’s death? The mods massacred everyone in the square. Ultima was a game where the weak could be fodder for the strong, and even the strongest would be ganged up on and murdered for their deeds.

Or perhaps in Everquest 1. Where numerous end game bosses were part of a massive unlock quest for your guild. And your guild had a single chance, period, to kill said boss. There’s a reason gear used to have ‘meaning’, and I don’t mean WoW Raid gear. The Elite dungeons of the pre-WoW world and the end bosses in the pre WoW world dropped gear that was as iconic to players as getting killed by one of these:
http://tf2itemeditors.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/vrocket.png
Was to TF2 Veterans. it was a huge sign of prestige. Of identity.

Heck, once upon a time MMORPG was turn based and purely strategic and party wipes were expected on normal content.
Once upon a time you didn’t pay a monthly sub. Or no sub. You paid an ~hourly subscription~.
Once upon a time pvp was open world, and when PVP was discovered, (yes, it was a discovery. People thought it was an exploit!) they demanded an explanation from Ruler of the Realm.
Once upon a time the server was 200 people, and there was a waiting list at all times of day for entrance to this single server.
Once upon a time, a community could be so tight knit that players were truly infamous, famous or even legendary.
Once upon a time, a 500 player at a time MMO was the primary selling point of what would become, for a time, ~THE~ ISP.
Heck, once upon a time the player base was also the player base’s police and moderators.
http://www.bladekeep.com/nwn/screens/kefmendal.gif

Pretty much nothing has been as hard core as the first graphical MMO.
Want to know something else? Neverwinter Nights was never unpopular for its seven year run. It likely would still have a devoted group of followers had TSR not refused any ability to update the game for AOL. Weird, huh?

Guild Wars 2 was meant to be a casual game from the very start as you mentioned but people can’t accept it. Anet is a gaming company and even if they appreciate their art, they still work to get money and if they wanted the game to be hardcore, the model would have been different.

On a sidenote GW2 during betas was hard however there were 10 pages of threads on this forum about how punishing the game was, asking for a nerf and they got it.

Heck, a more modern example. Recently Everquest 2 dungeon vets have been complaining that almost all content released in the year has been beaten. Not finished. Not beaten by the majority of players. Beaten by anyone.

This wasn’t a con that it was too hard. This was a statement that “It was too easy. We’re almost done with it!”

nGumball.1283:

Guild Wars 2 was meant to be a casual game from the very start as you mentioned but people can’t accept it. Anet is a gaming company and even if they appreciate their art, they still work to get money and if they wanted the game to be hardcore, the model would have been different.

On a sidenote GW2 during betas was hard however there were 10 pages of threads on this forum about how punishing the game was, asking for a nerf and they got it.

That’s true. But the game wasn’t supposed to be difficult. (And honestly, it wasn’t that punishing. It was just harder then most of what people were used to/What the devs wanted the game to feel like.)

No game will be everything for everyone. I understand why some players want harder content, and I understand why other players want a egalitarian utopia where nothing is too hard and no one can be too special a snowflake.

What I don’t understand is why these two groups don’t naturally separate to different games. I didn’t come to GW2 by accident. I searched for the most casual friendly MMOs I could find and GW2 was the most recommended so I came here. I assume the hardcore and difficulty junkies do the same, and they go to whatever game is pursuing that market. That both sides end up arguing endlessly on every single MMO forum is a bit baffling, honestly.

DavidH.7380:

No game will be everything for everyone. I understand why some players want harder content, and I understand why other players want a egalitarian utopia where nothing is too hard and no one can be too special a snowflake.

What I don’t understand is why these two groups don’t naturally separate to different games. I didn’t come to GW2 by accident. I searched for the most casual friendly MMOs I could find and GW2 was the most recommended so I came here. I assume the hardcore and difficulty junkies do the same, and they go to whatever game is pursuing that market. That both sides end up arguing endlessly on every single MMO forum is a bit baffling, honestly.

I dunno maybe because gw1 is harder than this?

Hi, I am probably a casual who used to be able to be that non casual person. I can speak and say that the difficulty for me is not the problem. However, what is the problem is the constraints they have placed on the audience that has no choice but to be casual.

I am all for harder fights, or challenging things in this game, but the main beef of what this game has to offer comes with having time to spare. The end game dungeons, world bosses, and LS all have time constraints on them. Either of these bring problems to casuals who may not have the time to get on consistently for 2 weeks, or make sure their on every specific hour in order to fight a boss that was intended for anyone to see.

As a casual, I am at a loss for not having the time to play. Now, one could argue and say, well you could still enjoy the game. But there is a clear line drawn for each person’s opinion on what enjoyment is for them. Do I enjoy having to grind and now even do it longer? Not really. Do I enjoy having to be forced to play 2 weeks of new content before it leaves? Not really. Do I enjoy having to set my schedule around when a certain piece of content will be available to me? Not really. and etc.

These are the punishments that I do not get. Fine, make the content hard, but would you also not mind giving me time to do it? dont force me to get on at certain times if I want to do something. And lastly, Guild Wars 2 has become the most gindest MMO out now. Its almost up there with a Korean game (Ncsoft anyone?) and their whole philosophy behind leaving trinities behind goes against this.

Uriel.6310:

And lastly, Guild Wars 2 has become the most gindest MMO out now.

Clearly has not played STO

DonQuack.9025:

DavidH.7380:

No game will be everything for everyone. I understand why some players want harder content, and I understand why other players want a egalitarian utopia where nothing is too hard and no one can be too special a snowflake.

What I don’t understand is why these two groups don’t naturally separate to different games. I didn’t come to GW2 by accident. I searched for the most casual friendly MMOs I could find and GW2 was the most recommended so I came here. I assume the hardcore and difficulty junkies do the same, and they go to whatever game is pursuing that market. That both sides end up arguing endlessly on every single MMO forum is a bit baffling, honestly.

I dunno maybe because gw1 is harder than this?

A valid point I hadn’t considered for this game specifically. However, this argument also rages on LOTRO, EQ2, WoW, etc., so I’m not sure that explains why the argument seems to be universal for all games.

Maybe it is just that people don’t want something totally different, they just want that particular game shifted a little bit more their direction.

DonQuack.9025:

Uriel.6310:

And lastly, Guild Wars 2 has become the most gindest MMO out now.

Clearly has not played STO

Ok, maybe an over exaggeration about being the most, but taking a look at where Guild Wars 2 was before the grind came in, yea its nothing but a grind fest now which is really my point.

There’s just no clear agreement on what the “casual” term really means.
For me, it always has been something that had nothing to do with difficulty but with time/schedule requeriments.

A game that offers an arguably short time to reach max level and get BiS gear, provides A LOT of open world content with a quite friendly loot system and where even most dungeons are arguably short time wise (all of it true for GW2, until ascended gear / LS / maybe fractal releases at least), will always be “casual-friendly” in my book, even if it has some quite punishing gameplay wise parts.

I also read as much as I could about GW2 before purchasing it, and it seemed to offer me no grind, dungeons aimed to organzied groups and a PvP that was meant to become an eSport. ANet probably played the ambiguity card quite a little bit :P

I loved Guild Wars 1. I love Guild Wars 2.

I think it’s a nice balance of casual and hardcore. There’s something for everybody here, and I really appreciate that. Sure it’s not perfect, but it’s still hands-down my favorite game to play. Speaking of which…

Back to Tyria!

Uriel.6310:

DonQuack.9025:

Uriel.6310:

And lastly, Guild Wars 2 has become the most gindest MMO out now.

Clearly has not played STO

Ok, maybe an over exaggeration about being the most, but taking a look at where Guild Wars 2 was before the grind came in, yea its nothing but a grind fest now which is really my point.

Guild Wars 2 was created to be a casual game where people can spend their time now and then however the playerbase was crazy enough to stay around and ask for more…Anet delivered a system where you can grind for AP or skins and feel rewarded. The game doesn’t require grind, it is there for the people who want it.

On the other hand, if you are speaking about the perfect game where content is fun and challenging, encouraging people to play all the time without any grind…well, I guess that’s just the fantasy-bubble of every MMO-gamer and you won’t get what you want anytime soon. There is no huge play-time without grind and there is no grind without huge play-time, that’s how MMOs are.

PS. Please, I don’t want any comments like ‘’WoW kept players playing’’ becaue we all know that WoW forced its playerbase to grind which is a whole another story. Also, all the ‘’GW1 was great’’ comments are also flawed becasue wether GW1 fanbase have to accept it or not, GW1 wasn’t an MMORPG…not only said by players but by market professionals and Anet themselves.

DonQuack.9025:

Uriel.6310:

And lastly, Guild Wars 2 has become the most gindest MMO out now.

Clearly has not played STO

Or DaoC, EQ, AoC, LotRO, Eve Online, WoW, etc……or ESO, although I haven’t played that enough yet to be sure…..but it seems to be more grindy so far….

Uriel.6310:

Ok, maybe an over exaggeration about being the most, but taking a look at where Guild Wars 2 was before the grind came in, yea its nothing but a grind fest now which is really my point.

My apologies, and don’t take it personally, but calling this game a ‘grind fest’ just makes me chuckle to no end.

nGumball.1283:

Guild Wars 2 was created to be a casual game where people can spend their time now and then however the playerbase was crazy enough to stay around and ask for more…Anet delivered a system where you can grind for AP or skins and feel rewarded. The game doesn’t require grind, it is there for the people who want it.

Ok, that’s a really good point. And yea, I will agree…..there is a grind in this game for those that want it. Fortunately, that grind is not mandatory like it is in a lot of the other mmos I previously listed.

The new update has pretty much forced everyone to be a casual player.

Gw2 isn’t casual, as long as you already have a guild, don’t RP, don’t join
guaranteed win Tequatl fights with TTS, don’t run champion trains, and love running around everywhere with massive blobs of people you never met before. There’s even more examples.

Not to mention you have the joy of possibly meeting every troll on every server now instead of your own. So that itself will push some long time players into the casual status themselves.

GW2 has many new things to play with for here and now, it just destroyed a lot of what kept you playing for the long run. And alienated a lot of people who built things for the community.

Cercie.1025:

The new update has pretty much forced everyone to be a casual player.

Gw2 isn’t casual, as long as you already have a guild, don’t RP, don’t join
guaranteed win Tequatl fights with TTS, don’t run champion trains, and love running around everywhere with massive blobs of people you never met before. There’s even more examples.

Not to mention you have the joy of possibly meeting every troll on every server now instead of your own. So that itself will push some long time players into the casual status themselves.

GW2 has many new things to play with for here and now, it just destroyed a lot of what kept you playing for the long run. And alienated a lot of people who built things for the community.

That’s your opinion. I disagree. I consider myself casual most of the time with this game. But if I didn’t have a job, family, bills, etc…..I could easily be harcore in this game with absolutely no problem whatsoever.

And just curious……what do you mean by “And alienated a lot of people who built things for the community.”?

I just am not sure what you mean by that comment…..what exactly did these alienated people build for the community? /bewildered