Guild Wars 2

No offense but you are just a typical poster who makes statements of solely your opinion and tries to make himself more profound by making it sound as though loads of people share you sediment.
So 2 things you should keep in mind
-when you post you speak for yourself only
-never assume you know the thought of anyone else not even your best friend who probably agrees with you just to get you to shut up so he can enjoy the game

Not that anyone will read this, but OP I could not disagree more. 1.) Your personal story has replaced the missions and primary quest of GW1 that guided you from start to end game. The meat of the story happens there. You can still solo all of that content btw. 2.) Secondary quest are replaced with Hearts and Dynamic Events. You don’t like the event system? Did you want them to make the traditional go gather x items and return them to y NPX type of quest? I don’t get why some people hate innovation.

The new model isn’t perfect, but it beats the old form and takes us somewhere exciting and new and it pairs well with action-combat. If you strongly dislike action games then GW2 might not be for you, but please don’t speak for all GW1 fans. I finished all GW1 content (save for title grinding) and ran a ranked PvP guild for a while. I know GW1 pretty well and this is a fantastic sequel. It will take some time to fill out, but keep in mind it’s a brand new game.

I’ll be honest I didn’t read much beyond the first posts. So if this is a repeat, oh well.

OP you obviously expected a GW1 with updated graphics. GW2 never promised to be that.

Pretty sure that’s the end of that.

I for one love the dynamic events and many other oddities of this game. The Trade Post thing is awful and needs to be trashed but hey, I just ignore it and do my own thing.

As for the events, I was standing in town waiting on a friend who went AFK. After about 15-20 minutes I decide to clean my inventory and do a bit of recoloring. Next thing I know I was being hit by something. Some event had kicked off and things started spawning everywhere.

SO … long story short … the event was bugged, there were not enough players to actually finish it so it kept going on and on and on and on and on and on and on and … some hour or two later we are still fighting this spawn.

I haven’t been in a good fight like that in years of playing MMO’s. I was drained, I’d kept most everyone alive, I’d gotten in a few hits and I even managed to loot a few nice things.

Perspective is everything. I thought I’d hate this game but so far it’s moving up the list and quickly finding a home somewhere around UO and SWG once held for me. There are much worse games out there, MUCH WORSE who have more money and experience behind them … apparently that doesn’t matter much in my opinion, what matters is the fun “I” have.

Although I’ve only replied once thus far, this is a thread I keep coming back to – essentially because it proves my point that GW2 is a game you’ll either love (or not).

The one thing that has saddened me, is that so many become personal – on both sides of the argument.

If you don’t like the PvE format of GW2 there seems to be a perception that you’re a WoW fan – or making outrageous suggestions that shouldn’t be entertained.

And from the other side there can be an equally vocal stance that can border on personal attacks (albeit in words).

There’s also the argument raised that GW1 players should have kept abreast of the developments/changes planned in GW2 – so they’d know whether it was a game that interested them or not.
Possibly that argument is right – the flipside is that not everyone follows game development, and the fact it’s called GW2 might suggest similarities with the original.

Personally I’ll stand by my original post – it’s only my opinion based on the game, and that’s all any of us can post.

It’s the same with any game world – it will either captivate you or become a DVD gathering dust on a shelf.

The only one thing I agree with is how you feel insignificant in huge battles against a single boss. These only happen once in awhile (for me anyway) and they seem pretty epic, so I am mostly OK with them.

It is the 1 thing I hate most about WoW, 25-man raids where you spam kill a boss for 10 minutes and feel like your character is really insignificant.

PS: Mangarrage: your post states that people share his ‘sediment’ – Made me laugh, mostly cuz I am en environmental science major :P You meant sentiment.

Kungkonung.6758:

I completely agree with OP. It’s sad to see all the rabid fan boys lash out at OP in such a way that they do. Someone even called his initial post “shoddy and quickly written”.

Massively flawed post.
I’ll help you.

The main problem is, you seem to lump everyone who disagrees with OP into a group, “rabib dan boys” as you say it.

Now, trying to not be biased, it seems that attack was unprovoked, I don’t think anyone said anything to you.

You really didn’t bring up any arguments either, just shot down everyone who disagreed with you.

The only thing I really agree about is the lack of a real backstory to the DEs. The story in general in GW2 seems to have taken a big back seat to hack n slash. It seems now to just be a static setting, rather than a narrative.

That, and too many DEs late game stopped being interesting. Whereas before you could complete them in many ways, now every one of them is “kill X Risen.” It gets extremely tiring, and I was always astonished when I found one that actually didn’t involve killing multiple enemies that all had over 100,000 health each.

It’s amazing how strongly people react to criticism.

Coming from a 2005 GW1 player, I would have to agree with most of your points:

1) Dynamic Events

Some of them are painfully boring. Smack a boss for 5 minutes is a big one. As well, a good portion of the Dynamic Events seem to have no effect on the world at all.

However, I do appreciate that they are trying to move away from the standard quests and break the mold, even though it’s not at its best.

2) Skills

I completely and utterly agree. Coming from even just GW1 Prophecies, I couldn’t help but feel like there was at least 10x more customization than GW2.

This is probably because Arena.net wants an easier time balancing PvP instead of creating a more interesting experience. As well, it’s completely transparent that Arena.net is trying to be more like a MOBA (Dota/LoL/HoN) than trying to be an MMO.

This doesn’t work though: no one wants to play the same skill set for hundreds of hours.

3) Trading Post, etc

Player to Player trading should be implemented I think (at LEAST a Cash on Delivery), but this isn’t the biggest deal for me.

I’ll agree with your first point OP.

Dynamic Events are massive let down to me. I was leaving feedback and praying they would spruce them up in beta. I was actually hoping they would learn from Rift and Warhammer who’s public quests and rift events were nearly always the same, hell if anything public quests in WAR were actually more diverse than Dynamic Events here. And I remember rift invasions actually having tough mobs thrown in there that would kick everyone’skitten

The fact that DE’s scaling just throw more and more weak mobs at a zerg of players to be zerged down, which doesn’t challenge anyone, forces people to fight over loot by trying to lay down as much burst aoe as possible, and discourage any sort of teamwork whatsoever is a massive let down.

At the very least they could increase mob HP and start spawning champion and veteran mobs instead.

As it is now :

Defend this place from whatever mobs, 10 bad guys spawn and die, 10 bad guys spawn and die, 10 bad guys spawn and die, 10 bad guys spawn and die, 10 bad guys spawn and die. GOLD MEDAL YAY!

Escort this guy as he slowly makes his way to point X. 10 bad guys spawn and die, 10 bad guys spawn and die, 10 bad guys spawn and die, 10 bad guys spawn and die, 10 bad guys spawn and die. GOLD MEDAL YAY AGAIN!

I really really hope they prioritize making DE’s more diverse and “dynamic” otherwise I don’t think I could stomache doing anymore a day or 2 from now.

All I have to say as a long-time player of GW is that I feel spoken for. By all the people who disagree with the OP’s opinion. I mean…the game’s design was pretty much known by us for a while. Why did they buy the game if they knew it had stuff they’d hate?

Apathy.6430:

Torcan.2314:

1. Get level 80
2. Get full exo
3. ????
4. Quit

Good riddance.

Rofl, yeah… Welcome to:
1. “Exploring” to level 80.
2. Getting to the gear cap.
3. Staying at said gear cap, while designing your wardrobe with transmutations/dyes ????
4. Quitting.

Believe me. I love looking cool as much as anyone else, but is that all this game has to offer? It’s been too early to come to any concrete conclusions.

I’ll be looking around for future developments, but I certainly won’t be playing in the meantime.

Battle Rifles, i am so happy you have made this post.

I am also a long time Guild Wars 1 player. I love the game and only left it because Anet stopped adding meaningful content to it. To this day though, when i log in am still amazed by the graphics, sound and incredible combat system. If anet brought out more expansions or campaign for GW1 i would jump right in.

I looked forward to GW2 ever since it was first announced. The game of my dreams, GW in a persistant world. It had eveything to work, it was gonna be the best game ever.
Alas, my dreams were shattered upon release of this game. There are many problems with this game, but the most daring one and the one that bothered me ever since i could see something off in the BWE is the combat system. It is an utterly gutted version of what we had in GW1 to the minimal common denominator.

Seeing the comments by the creators, things were looking up as the “magic the gathering” phylosophy behind the combat system was beeing kept. Unfortunely its not what came to pass. The excitement of visceral soon gave entry to lack of depth, lack of energy gave room to lack of proper DPS skills and lots of auto-attack boremdom, lack of skill variety led to lack of strategy options, repetitiveness and lack of healers led to brainless zerg’s.

Ever since day one i felt the combat was boring, uninspired and required zero skill and no strategy. Dieing didnt lead you to reavaluate your option, it was just a nuisance. Playing the game was not an exercise on fun, but an exercise on my abillity to withstand the boredom i was in.

Are the events repetitive and zerg fests? Is there lack of end-game content? Those i can live with. What i cant stand is a combat system designed for so little. I am disappointed as i absolutely love the GW universe, but playing GW2 just makes me sad.
Something that gutted me especially was when i saw the fear mechanic in the game. For years i could say how perfect the combat system in GW1 was and how it would never remove control over your character. You could have hexes on you, conditions, snares, but you could always control your character. Unfortunely GW2 took the high road of fears and stuns that WoW and other MMO’s have always been so criticized about.

If i could, if anyone could. I would remake this game with the GW1 combat system and everything would be forgiven. Really, dont even need to go that far, but healing and greater skill customization need to come in place if this game is ever to thrive.
As it stands, i have no more interest in further delving into the world of GW2. I cant stand the boredom and sadness of what could’ve been and was originally touted back when the game was announced and never came to be.

It was so simple and we were so close to the perfect MMO. Why change the perfect combat system to something so poor? Its tragic to see how things turned out.

Nemmar.8491:

Battle Rifles, i am so happy you have made this post.

I am also a long time Guild Wars 1 player. I love the game and only left it because Anet stopped adding meaningful content to it. To this day though, when i log in am still amazed by the graphics, sound and incredible combat system. If anet brought out more expansions or campaign for GW1 i would jump right in.

I looked forward to GW2 ever since it was first announced. The game of my dreams, GW in a persistant world. It had eveything to work, it was gonna be the best game ever.
Alas, my dreams were shattered upon release of this game. There are many problems with this game, but the most daring one and the one that bothered me ever since i could see something off in the BWE is the combat system. It is an utterly gutted version of what we had in GW1 to the minimal common denominator.

Seeing the comments by the creators, things were looking up as the “magic the gathering” phylosophy behind the combat system was beeing kept. Unfortunely its not what came to pass. The excitement of visceral soon gave entry to lack of depth, lack of energy gave room to lack of proper DPS skills and lots of auto-attack boremdom, lack of skill variety led to lack of strategy options, repetitiveness and lack of healers led to brainless zerg’s.

Ever since day one i felt the combat was boring, uninspired and required zero skill and no strategy. Dieing didnt lead you to reavaluate your option, it was just a nuisance. Playing the game was not an exercise on fun, but an exercise on my abillity to withstand the boredom i was in.

Are the events repetitive and zerg fests? Is there lack of end-game content? Those i can live with. What i cant stand is a combat system designed for so little. I am disappointed as i absolutely love the GW universe, but playing GW2 just makes me sad.
Something that gutted me especially was when i saw the fear mechanic in the game. For years i could say how perfect the combat system in GW1 was and how it would never remove control over your character. You could have hexes on you, conditions, snares, but you could always control your character. Unfortunely GW2 took the high road of fears and stuns that WoW and other MMO’s have always been so criticized about.

If i could, if anyone could. I would remake this game with the GW1 combat system and everything would be forgiven. Really, dont even need to go that far, but healing and greater skill customization need to come in place if this game is ever to thrive.
As it stands, i have no more interest in further delving into the world of GW2. I cant stand the boredom and sadness of what could’ve been and was originally touted back when the game was announced and never came to be.

It was so simple and we were so close to the perfect MMO. Why change the perfect combat system to something so poor? Its tragic to see how things turned out.

The biggest problem now with any of these issues being resolved is that the development time for GW2 was absolutely ridiculous, and after years of players and more importantly investors (more important to ANet and NCsoft) waiting for this release, I don’t think it’s very realistic to hope that ANet capitulates and sees their errors.

The bottom line is they’ve sold 2 million copies (on hype alone) and, let’s face it, the game is ridonkulously beautiful and it’s easy to Prscrn and upload a photo and make it look like the greatest game in the world. The reality is that regardless of what we think as players, they’re part of a business that’s all about money.

Also, many of their devs have spent the past 6 or 7 years of their lives on this thing, and I don’t doubt that it’s very much their baby, or that a lot of these ‘innovative’ implementations are seen as personal pet projects for them (read: egos are at stake).

Thus, people like us are up against both the multitude of casuals who think the game is great as well as the devs themselves because they’d have to admit their ideas weren’t the greatest. That’s a pretty formidable opponent, when you combine the two.

I don’t have much hope that anything will be changed. Reading this thread has given me a bit of solace because I know there are a lot of people who agree with me, but I think that —- ultimately —- we’re up against egos and greed and we’re not liable to get very far.

Jesus Christ you people… the OP presented his subjective opinions with long and sincere posts and you people just replied him with tl;dr and told him to get out of here?

Do you people even know what forums are for?

Nemmar.8491:

Battle Rifles, i am so happy you have made this post.

I am also a long time Guild Wars 1 player. I love the game and only left it because Anet stopped adding meaningful content to it. To this day though, when i log in am still amazed by the graphics, sound and incredible combat system. If anet brought out more expansions or campaign for GW1 i would jump right in.

I looked forward to GW2 ever since it was first announced. The game of my dreams, GW in a persistant world. It had eveything to work, it was gonna be the best game ever.
Alas, my dreams were shattered upon release of this game. There are many problems with this game, but the most daring one and the one that bothered me ever since i could see something off in the BWE is the combat system. It is an utterly gutted version of what we had in GW1 to the minimal common denominator.

Seeing the comments by the creators, things were looking up as the “magic the gathering” phylosophy behind the combat system was beeing kept. Unfortunely its not what came to pass. The excitement of visceral soon gave entry to lack of depth, lack of energy gave room to lack of proper DPS skills and lots of auto-attack boremdom, lack of skill variety led to lack of strategy options, repetitiveness and lack of healers led to brainless zerg’s.

Ever since day one i felt the combat was boring, uninspired and required zero skill and no strategy. Dieing didnt lead you to reavaluate your option, it was just a nuisance. Playing the game was not an exercise on fun, but an exercise on my abillity to withstand the boredom i was in.

Are the events repetitive and zerg fests? Is there lack of end-game content? Those i can live with. What i cant stand is a combat system designed for so little. I am disappointed as i absolutely love the GW universe, but playing GW2 just makes me sad.
Something that gutted me especially was when i saw the fear mechanic in the game. For years i could say how perfect the combat system in GW1 was and how it would never remove control over your character. You could have hexes on you, conditions, snares, but you could always control your character. Unfortunely GW2 took the high road of fears and stuns that WoW and other MMO’s have always been so criticized about.

If i could, if anyone could. I would remake this game with the GW1 combat system and everything would be forgiven. Really, dont even need to go that far, but healing and greater skill customization need to come in place if this game is ever to thrive.
As it stands, i have no more interest in further delving into the world of GW2. I cant stand the boredom and sadness of what could’ve been and was originally touted back when the game was announced and never came to be.

It was so simple and we were so close to the perfect MMO. Why change the perfect combat system to something so poor? Its tragic to see how things turned out.

Tbh while I’m not as doom and gloomy as you are in this post, I agree with you for the most part.

I wasn’t a huge GW1 player. I think I played somewhere during Prophecies into Factions, and was in love despite all of the bad things I heard of it. I absolutely loved the pve/story in Factions, I don’t know why, but it was just great.

Most importantly I was absolutely blown away by the skill creativity, the condition and boon-type spell system that made everything synergize, and of course the massive amount of abilities that you could build to completely customize your playstyle really in depth.

Compared to what we have here, it definately feels lacking. However it was worse during beta, and they’ve made alot of good changes to traits and added new and more interesting ones, as well as good changes to some weapon skill. In the end I still have hope that Anet will get there eventually.

Honestly I don’t feel like traits are even close to finished, for any class, traits still need alot of work. And there is always the possibility of them sprucing up weapon skills to give them more depth. Comboing skills together more for more synergy as well as allowing us to stagger auto attack chains for more combos. Such as Skill X does dmg plus w/e condition and makes your next Y apply cripple or next Z become an AoE.

Another great thing would be having alternative abilities for each weapon skill slot we could swap around that is slightly different than it’s original version. Such as warrior sword auto chain is, bleed —> bleed --> big hit, could be swapped to an alternate auto chain that does cripple —> vuln x2 --> big hit. Wishful thinking.

Why do people think having the name Guild Wars 2 automatically makes it an sequal to Guild Wars 1? Everquest 2 was NOWHERE NEAR what Everquest 1 was.

Well, the problem is that it is a sequel. These people didn’t want a sequel, though. They wanted the original with upgraded graphics.

Knote.2904:

Tbh while I’m not as doom and gloomy as you are in this post, I agree with you for the most part.

I wasn’t a huge GW1 player. I think was played somewhere during Prophecies into Factions, and was in love despite all of the bad things I heard of it. I absolutely loved the pve/story in Factions, I don’t know why, but it was just great.

Most importantly I was absolutely blown away by the skill creativity, the condition and boon-type spell system that made everything synergize, and of course the massive amount of abilities that you could build to completely customize your playstyle really in depth.

Compared to what we have here, definately it feels lacking. However it was definately worse during beta, and they’ve made alot of good changes to traits and added new and more interesting ones, as well as good changes to some weapon skill. In the end I still have hope that Anet will get there eventually.

Honestly I don’t feel like traits are even close to finished, for any class, traits still need alot of work. And there is always the possibility of them sprucing up weapon skills to give them more depth. Comboing skills together more for more synergy as well as allowing us to stagger auto attack chains for more combos. Such as Skill X does dmg plus w/e condition and makes your next Y apply cripple or next Z become an AoE.

Another great thing would be having alternative abilities for each weapon skill slot we could swap around that is slightly different than it’s original version. Such as warrior sword auto chain is, bleed —> bleed --> big hit, could be swapped to an alternate auto chain that does cripple —> vuln x2 --> big hit. Wishful thinking.

With skills, even if they altered the full skill bar, modified the skill chains, or changed the way traits and elites worked, it still wouldn’t change just how fundamentally broken combat is.

Every single fight is the same: Click the enemy (this is often painfully more difficult than it needs to be because finding your pointer, in a big fight especially, is next to impossible without pulling a Michael J. Fox with the mouse, and then clicking your intended target is pretty much impossible to do on the first try). I usually accidentally click allies first, especially in a DE or boss fight (and most things fall under that umbrella) where allies are everywhere.

Then, after you’ve targeted them, it’s time to either hold down the right mouse buttom while you stay in range (and if you’re melee, my condolences) and move around half-heartedly hoping you don’t pull aggro. Keep pressing 1 every time it stops autoattacking, wait a few seconds, and move on to the next enemy.

There’s no challenge, there’s no strategy, and worst of all, IT’S BORING. If it’s a veteran fight, just increase the above routine by about 45 seconds, and if it’s a boss, increase by about 3 minutes.

Combat is fundamentally boring, and mucking with the skill bar wouldn’t fix it.

Stark.1350:

Why do people think having the name Guild Wars 2 automatically makes it an sequal to Guild Wars 1? Everquest 2 was NOWHERE NEAR what Everquest 1 was.

Are you just a really bad troll?

From Merriam-Webster:

se·quel
noun \?s?-kw?l also -?kwel\

1
: consequence, result
2
a : subsequent development
b : the next installment (as of a speech or story); especially : a literary, cinematic, or televised work continuing the course of a story begun in a preceding one

What part of Guild Wars 2 has you confused? The Guild Wars or the number 2?

Battle Rifles.2965:

Stark.1350:

Why do people think having the name Guild Wars 2 automatically makes it an sequal to Guild Wars 1? Everquest 2 was NOWHERE NEAR what Everquest 1 was.

Are you just a really bad troll?

From Merriam-Webster:

se·quel
noun \?s?-kw?l also -?kwel\

1
: consequence, result
2
a : subsequent development
b : the next installment (as of a speech or story); especially : a literary, cinematic, or televised work continuing the course of a story begun in a preceding one

What part of Guild Wars 2 has you confused? The Guild Wars are the number 2?

Look out, he’s getting upset! I meant sequel in terms of you wanted the exact same game, but with better graphics – or what Dusk said after me.

Stark.1350:

Battle Rifles.2965:

Stark.1350:

Why do people think having the name Guild Wars 2 automatically makes it an sequal to Guild Wars 1? Everquest 2 was NOWHERE NEAR what Everquest 1 was.

Are you just a really bad troll?

From Merriam-Webster:

se·quel
noun \?s?-kw?l also -?kwel\

1
: consequence, result
2
a : subsequent development
b : the next installment (as of a speech or story); especially : a literary, cinematic, or televised work continuing the course of a story begun in a preceding one

What part of Guild Wars 2 has you confused? The Guild Wars are the number 2?

Look out, he’s getting upset! I meant sequel in terms of you wanted the exact same game, but with better graphics – or what Dusk said after me.

Where have I ever said I wanted the exact same game?

Complaining about problems with the sequel means I wanted Guild Wars 1 with better graphics?

You’re just one non sequitur after another, boet.

Battle Rifles.2965:

Stark.1350:

Battle Rifles.2965:

Stark.1350:

Why do people think having the name Guild Wars 2 automatically makes it an sequal to Guild Wars 1? Everquest 2 was NOWHERE NEAR what Everquest 1 was.

Are you just a really bad troll?

From Merriam-Webster:

se·quel
noun \?s?-kw?l also -?kwel\

1
: consequence, result
2
a : subsequent development
b : the next installment (as of a speech or story); especially : a literary, cinematic, or televised work continuing the course of a story begun in a preceding one

What part of Guild Wars 2 has you confused? The Guild Wars are the number 2?

Look out, he’s getting upset! I meant sequel in terms of you wanted the exact same game, but with better graphics – or what Dusk said after me.

Where have I ever said I wanted the exact same game?

Complaining about problems with the sequel means I wanted Guild Wars 1 with better graphics?

You’re just one non sequitur after another, boet.

And yet you make direct comparisons to all the reasons you dislike about GW2 and how much better it was in GW1 in your original post.

You put 200 hours into GW2 and yet you hate most of the game. Why would you dry hump a cactus for 200 hours?

Battle Rifles.2965:

With skills, even if they altered the full skill bar, modified the skill chains, or changed the way traits and elites worked, it still wouldn’t change just how fundamentally broken combat is.

Every single fight is the same: Click the enemy (this is often painfully more difficult than it needs to be because finding your pointer, in a big fight especially, is next to impossible without pulling a Michael J. Fox with the mouse, and then clicking your intended target is pretty much impossible to do on the first try). I usually accidentally click allies first, especially in a DE or boss fight (and most things fall under that umbrella) where allies are everywhere.

Then, after you’ve targeted them, it’s time to either hold down the right mouse buttom while you stay in range (and if you’re melee, my condolences) and move around half-heartedly hoping you don’t pull aggro. Keep pressing 1 every time it stops autoattacking, wait a few seconds, and move on to the next enemy.

There’s no challenge, there’s no strategy, and worst of all, IT’S BORING. If it’s a veteran fight, just increase the above routine by about 45 seconds, and if it’s a boss, increase by about 3 minutes.

Combat is fundamentally boring, and mucking with the skill bar wouldn’t fix it.

Well in the end all we can do is offer feedback, suggestions, and pray stuff is improved.

I’m still hopeful they can make a boring, 0 strategy, no challenge fight into a fun one.

Stark.1350:

Battle Rifles.2965:

Stark.1350:

Battle Rifles.2965:

Stark.1350:

Why do people think having the name Guild Wars 2 automatically makes it an sequal to Guild Wars 1? Everquest 2 was NOWHERE NEAR what Everquest 1 was.

Are you just a really bad troll?

From Merriam-Webster:

se·quel
noun \?s?-kw?l also -?kwel\

1
: consequence, result
2
a : subsequent development
b : the next installment (as of a speech or story); especially : a literary, cinematic, or televised work continuing the course of a story begun in a preceding one

What part of Guild Wars 2 has you confused? The Guild Wars are the number 2?

Look out, he’s getting upset! I meant sequel in terms of you wanted the exact same game, but with better graphics – or what Dusk said after me.

Where have I ever said I wanted the exact same game?

Complaining about problems with the sequel means I wanted Guild Wars 1 with better graphics?

You’re just one non sequitur after another, boet.

And yet you make direct comparisons to all the reasons you dislike about GW2 and how much better it was in GW1 in your original post.

You put 200 hours into GW2 and yet you hate most of the game. Why would you dry hump a cactus for 200 hours?

GW2 is a sequel. There’s no debate about that. Now, I expect a sequel to be an improved, evolved, better version of whatever came first in the series. This rarely happens in the real world (think films), but you’ll notice in the definition that ‘subsequent development’ implies improvement (because you can learn from the past).

Still with me?

Guild Wars was amazing. I expected its sequel to be amazing. That doesn’t mean the sequel has to be exactly like the first, but I did expect it to be fun. The reason GW1 gets brought up so much in threads like this, in case this still isn’t obvious to you, is because it’s the followup game by the same developer and it’s continuing the same story in the same world with the same people. It makes sense to talk about how the first iteration worked, and why the followup doesn’t, in those terms. Now, you’d have a point (I guess) if I sat around comparing Guild Wars 2 to Eve Online or WoW, but I’m not, so you don’t.

Hopefully you can understand this, and if not, well, gg.

We’re getting way off topic anyhow, and this thread is returning to that didactically maternal modus operandi again, so I’ll bugger off for a bit.

Battle Rifles.2965:

Now, I expect a sequel to be an improved, evolved, better version of whatever came first in the series.

And you’d be wrong. There are a lot of game sequels that have been drastically different from their predecessors.

Well, thank you for your subjective opinion on what is fun and what is not. I came from WoW and EQ2. I’m having a blast with the game.

Stark.1350:

Well, thank you for your subjective opinion on what is fun and what is not. I came from WoW and EQ2. I’m having a blast with the game.

Thanks. After 3 posts of hot air you copy word for word the same inane post I’ve seen 100 times already in this thread. Great.

Continue to enjoy your cactus humpage there, Battle.

I completely agree with the OP too, along with many others it would seem. Still some people who may find things boring and tedious, others may enjoy it, so it’s upto other people to make the decisions for themselves I guess.

For me this game could have been alot more, and i’m sure can be alot more when they’ve finally sorted out the very buggy game that people are playing at the moment. Maybe then they can focus on improvements and adding in elements that should have been in from day 1.

balmung.6217:

Did you guys even read it?he actually gave some good advice.I wish the devs made the bosses a bit more interesting such as it starts out where only melee can hurt it then it enters a phase where they cant be hit anymore you gotta use cannons or something to knock off shields, after a bit the other players way across the map had to hit some sort of switch or something to make sure it stays off then even when its off then you can resume hitting for a bit untill they come back up then he switches to range damage can only affect him so everyone whos melee could switch to buffing or something making melee ranged and buffing all in one usefull.Lets go even further and add a timer so teamwork would have to be tight between the zerg.Now thats a boss fight as of right now i sit here click my auto attack button and sometimes dodge.Not a bad fight but boring yes.

I have found one already and it was almost impossible.

Fight with Fire Golum Kodu in Dungeon in Sorrows embrace.. (STORY MODE NO LESS!)

RIDICULOUS and plenty of time for raging and complaining and then figuring it out.

not going to happen without some coordination

and awsome.

I think most of the STUFF the OP is WHINING for… actually just has not been found yet. or its not as public yet.

thats what i think is going on…

200 hours in 14 days? whats that like 14 hours a day every day ?

GW1 added content Even to prophecies even after Cantha came out.

calm down and be patient this was a huge undertaking… and the endgame content is there

also the WVW and PVP is there.

you are home… relax and it won’t get boring…

they will grow their lovechild… calm down

not everyone has 14 hours a day to play and Consume it so quickly.

I can understand his points its kind of like regenerating health in every FPS game now just because 10 years ago one game did it successfully. This game removed or at least disguised quests but some people might miss the old ways. I got bored of guild wars 1 pretty fast but I feel this game is a lot more interesting and is more fun to play.
From what I remember in GW 1 the skills were intimidating and complicated as an elementalist. There were a lot more choices but it made it a lot more confusing so they probably did try to simplify which I can understand how that gets some people made. Look at what it did to D3.
This game has a lot of room for improvement though and overall I think it is still a top game in this genre especially for having no fees.

Zeph.1260:

balmung.6217:

Did you guys even read it?he actually gave some good advice.I wish the devs made the bosses a bit more interesting such as it starts out where only melee can hurt it then it enters a phase where they cant be hit anymore you gotta use cannons or something to knock off shields, after a bit the other players way across the map had to hit some sort of switch or something to make sure it stays off then even when its off then you can resume hitting for a bit untill they come back up then he switches to range damage can only affect him so everyone whos melee could switch to buffing or something making melee ranged and buffing all in one usefull.Lets go even further and add a timer so teamwork would have to be tight between the zerg.Now thats a boss fight as of right now i sit here click my auto attack button and sometimes dodge.Not a bad fight but boring yes.

I have found one already and it was almost impossible.

Fight with Fire Golum Kodu in Dungeon in Sorrows embrace.. (STORY MODE NO LESS!)

RIDICULOUS and plenty of time for raging and complaining and then figuring it out.

not going to happen without some coordination

and awsome.

I think most of the STUFF the OP is WHINING for… actually just has not been found yet. or its not as public yet.

thats what i think is going on…

200 hours in 14 days? whats that like 14 hours a day every day ?

GW1 added content Even to prophecies even after Cantha came out.

calm down and be patient this was a huge undertaking… and the endgame content is there

also the WVW and PVP is there.

you are home… relax and it won’t get boring…

they will grow their lovechild… calm down

not everyone has 14 hours a day to play and Consume it so quickly.

I keep seeing posts like, “Go play WvW or sPvP”, but the thing is (and I know I’m not alone here), I couldn’t care less about player vs player. There are many, many more PvP games out there with huge player bases (SC2, LoL, Dota, any MLG game, really) that GW2 cannot even hope to overtake, regardless of how badly ANet wants to. That’s not a knock on the game, it’s just a fact with this particular sector. It’s like Valve hoping that Dota 2 overtakes League of Legends in its Korean market: it’s just not going to happen.

So, that leaves PvE, which is what GW1 was about, and what most people who bought GW2 purchased it for in the first place. That isn’t to say PvP can’t be fun, but if the saving grace of the ‘pro GW2’ argument is, “Go play PvP, it’s actually fun”, then it’s an outright failure as an MMO. We want our storyline, we want our gear, and we want to have fun while we’re getting our gear and playing our storyline. You can add extra content like PvP on top of that, but to deviate from PvE as the basic model means you’ve betrayed a huge swath of your player base.

I do hope they alter/improve things but, as I say a few posts up, I don’t think they have much incentive to do so.

Also, just to address what you said about playing for 200 hours (and I’ve seen this argument a lot, as well), I have two points:

The first is that those 200 hours weren’t spent having a blast and then getting to the end and realising there’s no endgame. The 200 hours were spent laboriously grinding through boring, repetitive ‘go zap this ooze with an Asura gun for 10 minutes’ quests (and they are just quests that ANet have tried to re-label as somehow being ‘dynamic’ or ‘hearts’).

The second point is that, even if I had enjoyed the 200 hours, why make it that easy to level up in the first place? There were 6 people in my guild who had level 80s in the first week.

You had how many BWEs and how much in-house testing? They had to know people would level up fast, and they also had to know there was no endgame (and this is a flaw I don’t even touch on, really anywhere, because it’s been rehashed ad infinitum elsewhere).

The levelling up process is tediously boring and there’s no endgame, and the pro-GW2 response is to go play PvP?

No thanks.

I know this wasn’t exactly what you were saying, but I thought I’d address it.

juiceman.2870:

I can understand his points its kind of like regenerating health in every FPS game now just because 10 years ago one game did it successfully. This game removed or at least disguised quests but some people might miss the old ways. I got bored of guild wars 1 pretty fast but I feel this game is a lot more interesting and is more fun to play.
From what I remember in GW 1 the skills were intimidating and complicated as an elementalist. There were a lot more choices but it made it a lot more confusing so they probably did try to simplify which I can understand how that gets some people made. Look at what it did to D3.
This game has a lot of room for improvement though and overall I think it is still a top game in this genre especially for having no fees.

You’ve basically just autobiographically restated my point that the skills are a profoundly dumbed down Skritt version of the original Guild Wars skill bar.

I’m a long time GW1 player as well and I disagree with the OP with most everything.

The one thing I do agree with is the simplification of the skills in GW2, which destroyed the mesmer class and everything that made mesmer the most awesome cool fun class ever. The mesmer in GW2 is nothing but the shadow of its old self. I’m guessing some people didn’t have enough brain in GW1 to deal with mesmers in PvE and especially in PvP and whined a lot about it.

Rifles, while I’m sympathetic to some of the issues you raise, and I can understand where you’re coming from, I fundamentally disagree with your premise that a failure to re-embrace the design philosophies of GW1 necessarily makes the sequel a waste of time. Are Dynamic Events particularly dynamic, or challenging? No. Is the skill system in its current incarnation as deep or intricate as the one you enjoyed for the bulk of your playing time in GW1? No. Do these changes automatically make the sequel a lesser game? No.

I’ve been hearing the “It’s lost it’s complexity, it’s lost it’s challenge, the genre is crap now” call to arms since Everquest. Too many casuals leaking in, theme parks, hand holding, welfare epics, face rolling, yada yada yada yada yada. Every day there’s a new jeremiad about why the terrifying new direction the developers have taken product X in spells doom for the game and the genre as a whole, and why can’t things be more like the good old days. Then we turn around on the other hand and enjoy post after post about how the genre has stagnated and no one is trying anything new.

This is the cost of experimentation and innovation, we leave behind systems that are more polished, more established, and have entrenched fans such as yourself. The same argument is made about raids, and the holy trinity, and the traditional questing model. The same arguments were made about death penalties, and leveling speed, and barrier to entry 8 years ago. The genre is going to continue to progress, and it’s not always going to progress in ways that sees it align with your particular tastes or your particular demands. That does not make the game an edifice to “ego and greed”, it does not automatically mean it is “boring and not fun”, and the fact you’ve found people that endorse your perspective on a message board…which is not terribly hard to do…does not mean you are a Bringer of Truth. Your perspective is 100% valid for you, it’s true, and it’s unfortunate you didn’t enjoy the game. I too wish I enjoyed everything, and occasionally I make loud demands that things be altered to fit my preferences, and much like your demands are going to be ignored, mine are always ignored too.

I find the game a lot of fun. Is it a panacea that solves all the ills of the genre? Certainly not. Is it a flawless gem? Certainly not. But there’s a lot to like about it, and I’m glad I’m able to recognize and enjoy those things, because hey…that’s another game I enjoy, right? That’s a win for me. It needs a lot of work still, but personally the last thing I want to do is see it take the retrogressive path of embracing 5, 10, 15 year old MMO design paradigms because an aging and phobic population of die hards doesn’t want to let go. I’ve played those games. I’ve been playing them for years. I’d like to see something new now, and I’m not prepared to throttle it in its infancy because things ain’t exactly the way they used to be.

You guys really let this guys thread get to 4 pages, and sigh, I’m not much better posting in it. Game set and match OP.
+1

Willowleaf.5721:

I’m a long time GW1 player as well and I disagree with the OP with most everything.

The one thing I do agree with is the simplification of the skills in GW2, which destroyed the mesmer class and everything that made mesmer the most awesome cool fun class ever. The mesmer in GW2 is nothing but the shadow of its old self. I’m guessing some people didn’t have enough brain in GW1 to deal with mesmers in PvE and especially in PvP and whined a lot about it.

The entire game has been dumbed down. The only complexity they added was crafting; everything else was cut off and left to die (see: direct trading, where you could haggle) or simplified beyond cognizance (see: the skill bar, elite skill acquisition, no class specialisation, multiple runes on an item, weapon upgrades, et al for a very long time).

It’s like ANet’s target audience went from being any of the major playable races to being the grawl or the skritt.

It’s all about money.

Battle Rifles.2965:

The entire game has been dumbed down. The only complexity they added was crafting; everything else was cut off and left to die (see: direct trading, where you could haggle) or simplified beyond cognizance (see: the skill bar, elite skill acquisition, no class specialisation, multiple runes on an item, weapon upgrades, et al for a very long time).

It’s like ANet’s target audience went from being any of the major playable races to being the grawl or the skritt.

It’s all about money.

GW1 itself was a “massively dumbed down” version of some of the games that preceded it. Does this mean GW1 was itself a bad game and all about money?

SpectacularYak.6518:

Rifles, while I’m sympathetic to some of the issues you raise, and I can understand where you’re coming from, I fundamentally disagree with your premise that a failure to re-embrace the design philosophies of GW1 necessarily makes the sequel a waste of time. Are Dynamic Events particularly dynamic, or challenging? No. Is the skill system in its current incarnation as deep or intricate as the one you enjoyed for the bulk of your playing time in GW1? No. Do these changes automatically make the sequel a lesser game? No.

I’ve been hearing the “It’s lost it’s complexity, it’s lost it’s challenge, the genre is crap now” call to arms since Everquest. Too many casuals leaking in, theme parks, hand holding, welfare epics, face rolling, yada yada yada yada yada. Every day there’s a new jeremiad about why the terrifying new direction the developers have taken product X in spells doom for the game and the genre as a whole, and why can’t things be more like the good old days. Then we turn around on the other hand and enjoy post after post about how the genre has stagnated and no one is trying anything new.

This is the cost of experimentation and innovation, we leave behind systems that are more polished, more established, and have entrenched fans such as yourself. The same argument is made about raids, and the holy trinity, and the traditional questing model. The same arguments were made about death penalties, and leveling speed, and barrier to entry 8 years ago. The genre is going to continue to progress, and it’s not always going to progress in ways that sees it align with your particular tastes or your particular demands. That does not make the game an edifice to “ego and greed”, it does not automatically mean it is “boring and not fun”, and the fact you’ve found people that endorse your perspective on a message board…which is not terribly hard to do…does not mean you are a Bringer of Truth. Your perspective is 100% valid for you, it’s true, and it’s unfortunate you didn’t enjoy the game. I too wish I enjoyed everything, and occasionally I make loud demands that things be altered to fit my preferences, and much like your demands are going to be ignored, mine are always ignored too.

I find the game a lot of fun. Is it a panacea that solves all the ills of the genre? Certainly not. Is it a flawless gem? Certainly not. But there’s a lot to like about it, and I’m glad I’m able to recognize and enjoy those things, because hey…that’s another game I enjoy, right? That’s a win for me. It needs a lot of work still, but personally the last thing I want to do is see it take the retrogressive path of embracing 5, 10, 15 year old MMO design paradigms because an aging and phobic population of die hards doesn’t want to let go. I’ve played those games. I’ve been playing them for years. I’d like to see something new now, and I’m not prepared to throttle it in its infancy because things ain’t exactly the way they used to be.

Right, I fail to see the light so I’m a Luddite stuck in the grasp of the past.

The only reason these changes were made is so the game could accommodate ‘the everyman’, and that’s because casual gamers spend money. They’re also not a niche demographic. So it is about money, and I guarantee you it’s about ego, too. You’ve got people like Mark Chen (or whatever his name is) tweeting crap like, ‘NO MORE QUEST HUBS YAY!’. You think he’s going to go on record in a few months when there’s nobody playing consistently and admit he screwed up? No way. He’ll tout the fact that it sold 2 million copies, slap that on his resume, and move on up the ladder.

But yeah, the Luddite argument has to be number 2 in the pro-Guild Wars 2 manual, after number 1 “You’re playing it too much get a life” and number three “Guild Wars 1 was too complicated and grindy”.

Battle Rifles.2965:

Right, I fail to see the light so I’m a Luddite stuck in the grasp of the past.

The only reason these changes were made is so the game could accommodate ‘the everyman’, and that’s because casual gamers spend money. They’re also not a niche demographic. So it is about money, and I guarantee you it’s about ego, too. You’ve got people like Mark Chen (or whatever his name is) tweeting crap like, ‘NO MORE QUEST HUBS YAY!’. You think he’s going to go on record in a few months when there’s nobody playing consistently and admit he screwed up? No way. He’ll tout the fact that it sold 2 million copies, slap that on his resume, and move on up the ladder.

But yeah, the Luddite argument has to be number 2 in the pro-Guild Wars 2 manual, after number 1 “You’re playing it too much get a life” and number three “Guild Wars 1 was too complicated and grindy”.

I don’t recall using the term “Luddite”, but you are suggesting the 2nd iteration of a game is a failure due to the fact it did not closely mimic the first. So yes, you are arguing that “change is bad”. And you’re using the extremely tiresome “No True Scotsman” fallacy about casual gamers and “the everyman” in order to support that argument.

SpectacularYak.6518:

Battle Rifles.2965:

The entire game has been dumbed down. The only complexity they added was crafting; everything else was cut off and left to die (see: direct trading, where you could haggle) or simplified beyond cognizance (see: the skill bar, elite skill acquisition, no class specialisation, multiple runes on an item, weapon upgrades, et al for a very long time).

It’s like ANet’s target audience went from being any of the major playable races to being the grawl or the skritt.

It’s all about money.

GW1 itself was a “massively dumbed down” version of some of the games that preceded it. Does this mean GW1 was itself a bad game and all about money?

Guild Wars 1 wasn’t a sequel, it was made by former WoW employees as a direct competitor to WoW.

I wouldn’t post these complaints on the Eve forums or the xxx MMO forums, but since GW2 is the sequel to a predecessor, I can be reasonably expected to assume it’s going to carry over many things from the first. And from those expectations I got… an incoherent storyline full of nauseatingly bad one liners. That’s it. That’s the carryover from GW1.

I didn’t have expectations for GW1, aside from conceptions about WoW, maybe, and that’s the difference.

Ultimately, they probably should have just named GW2 something else altogether.

SpectacularYak.6518:

Battle Rifles.2965:

Right, I fail to see the light so I’m a Luddite stuck in the grasp of the past.

The only reason these changes were made is so the game could accommodate ‘the everyman’, and that’s because casual gamers spend money. They’re also not a niche demographic. So it is about money, and I guarantee you it’s about ego, too. You’ve got people like Mark Chen (or whatever his name is) tweeting crap like, ‘NO MORE QUEST HUBS YAY!’. You think he’s going to go on record in a few months when there’s nobody playing consistently and admit he screwed up? No way. He’ll tout the fact that it sold 2 million copies, slap that on his resume, and move on up the ladder.

But yeah, the Luddite argument has to be number 2 in the pro-Guild Wars 2 manual, after number 1 “You’re playing it too much get a life” and number three “Guild Wars 1 was too complicated and grindy”.

I don’t recall using the term “Luddite”, but you are suggesting the 2nd iteration of a game is a failure due to the fact it did not closely mimic the first. So yes, you are arguing that “change is bad”. And you’re using the extremely tiresome “No True Scotsman” fallacy about casual gamers and “the everyman” in order to support that argument.

I’ve addressed this multiple times over the past 4 pages, and I can’t be bothered rehashing it again to some Tyrian Steve Jobs who can’t get rid of the past quickly enough.

Battle Rifles.2965:

Guild Wars 1 wasn’t a sequel, it was made by former WoW employees as a direct competitor to WoW.

I wouldn’t post these complaints on the Eve forums or the xxx MMO forums, but since GW2 is the sequel to a predecessor, I can be reasonably expected to assume it’s going to carry over many things from the first. And from those expectations I got… an incoherent storyline full of nauseatingly bad one liners. That’s it. That’s the carryover from GW1.

I didn’t have expectations for GW1, aside from conceptions about WoW, maybe, and that’s the difference.

Ultimately, they probably should have just named GW2 something else altogether.

Perhaps, but this is hardly the first time games of a different stripe have shared an IP. I find it hard to be overly sympathetic with the ardent cries of “It’s not at all like GW1” since you had many years of the developers telling you it wasn’t like GW1, and many months of beta demonstrating that it wasn’t like GW1, which I think constitutes fair warning. That you then bought the game anyway, played it to “completion”, and are now angrily storming the forums caterwauling that the game isn’t GW1 makes me wonder where the hell this expectation came from. You’d think 5+ years would have been ample time for you to adjust to the realities of the situation.

Battle Rifles.2965:

I’ve addressed this multiple times over the past 4 pages, and I can’t be bothered rehashing it again to some Tyrian Steve Jobs who can’t get rid of the past quickly enough.

Well, no, you haven’t “addressed” anything. You’ve offered up some opinions, and you’ve made some pretty hilarious and poorly reasoned arguments in an attempt to elevate those opinions to the status of fact.

And, I should add, this game is very Jobsian in the sense that it’s taken aspects from a multiplicity of other games, reworked the artwork a bit, and then called itself revolutionary.

SpectacularYak.6518:

Battle Rifles.2965:

Guild Wars 1 wasn’t a sequel, it was made by former WoW employees as a direct competitor to WoW.

I wouldn’t post these complaints on the Eve forums or the xxx MMO forums, but since GW2 is the sequel to a predecessor, I can be reasonably expected to assume it’s going to carry over many things from the first. And from those expectations I got… an incoherent storyline full of nauseatingly bad one liners. That’s it. That’s the carryover from GW1.

I didn’t have expectations for GW1, aside from conceptions about WoW, maybe, and that’s the difference.

Ultimately, they probably should have just named GW2 something else altogether.

Perhaps, but this is hardly the first time games of a different stripe have shared an IP. I find it hard to be overly sympathetic with the ardent cries of “It’s not at all like GW1” since you had many years of the developers telling you it wasn’t like GW1, and many months of beta demonstrating that it wasn’t like GW1, which I think constitutes fair warning. That you then bought the game anyway, played it to “completion”, and are now angrily storming the forums caterwauling that the game isn’t GW1 makes me wonder where the hell this expectation came from. You’d think 5+ years would have been ample time for you to adjust to the realities of the situation.

Please take the time to read the preceding posts before wasting mine.

I specifically avoided playing the BWEs because I didn’t want any spoilers. Ditto for avoiding any coverage.

If that makes me another naive consumer then fine, but when I pre-ordered this months ago I had no actual idea what to expect, other than that I was buying… Guild Wars 2.

Battle Rifles.2965:

And, I should add, this game is very Jobsian in the sense that it’s taken aspects from a multiplicity of other games, reworked the artwork a bit, and then called itself revolutionary.

Are you really going to start a crusade against marketing hyperbole now?

I’m not sure if you’re aware of this, but marketing hyperbole is not a new concept, nor is it limited to companies that you dislike or products you hate.

SpectacularYak.6518:

Battle Rifles.2965:

Guild Wars 1 wasn’t a sequel, it was made by former WoW employees as a direct competitor to WoW.

I wouldn’t post these complaints on the Eve forums or the xxx MMO forums, but since GW2 is the sequel to a predecessor, I can be reasonably expected to assume it’s going to carry over many things from the first. And from those expectations I got… an incoherent storyline full of nauseatingly bad one liners. That’s it. That’s the carryover from GW1.

I didn’t have expectations for GW1, aside from conceptions about WoW, maybe, and that’s the difference.

Ultimately, they probably should have just named GW2 something else altogether.

Perhaps, but this is hardly the first time games of a different stripe have shared an IP. I find it hard to be overly sympathetic with the ardent cries of “It’s not at all like GW1” since you had many years of the developers telling you it wasn’t like GW1, and many months of beta demonstrating that it wasn’t like GW1, which I think constitutes fair warning. That you then bought the game anyway, played it to “completion”, and are now angrily storming the forums caterwauling that the game isn’t GW1 makes me wonder where the hell this expectation came from. You’d think 5+ years would have been ample time for you to adjust to the realities of the situation.

Battle Rifles.2965:

I’ve addressed this multiple times over the past 4 pages, and I can’t be bothered rehashing it again to some Tyrian Steve Jobs who can’t get rid of the past quickly enough.

Well, no, you haven’t “addressed” anything. You’ve offered up some opinions, and you’ve made some pretty hilarious and poorly reasoned arguments in an attempt to elevate those opinions to the status of fact.

Examples?

I enjoy dynamic events, and just disagree with most of your post.

You raise some points, but honestly, it sounds like a classic case of, so and such isn’t my cup of tea, so I’m leaving unless you change things.

SpectacularYak.6518:

Battle Rifles.2965:

And, I should add, this game is very Jobsian in the sense that it’s taken aspects from a multiplicity of other games, reworked the artwork a bit, and then called itself revolutionary.

Are you really going to start a crusade against marketing hyperbole now?

I’m not sure if you’re aware of this, but marketing hyperbole is not a new concept, nor is it limited to companies that you dislike or products you hate.

I rail against crap whether it’s something I like or not, actually. And dishonesty in particular pisses me off, especially when every airhead on the interwebs can’t come up for air long enough to realise how deluded they are.

I’m sick of being told I’m playing a game with all this new great stuff in it, when I’m not. There’s nothing revolutionary about anything in this game, not the DEs, the boss fights, anything. Anybody who’s played anything else can attest to this (and really, if you’ve played anything else, the statement is laughable). And yeah, it angers me that players are repeating verbatim precisely what the developer has been spoon feeding them for the past 2 years.

(And hell, I LIKE ANet).