Guild Wars 2

Let me start off by saying that I’ve been playing Guild Wars since E3 2003. I love this franchise. But these kinds of lazy solutions that hurt the legitimate playerbase more than the people they’re intended to target make me feel that I’ve wasted my money and my time.

Now, before anyone comes in here to troll about “Durhur don’t farm the same DEs in or all day lololo” like I’ve seen in every other post about this subject, this is not the case. This isn’t about farming the so-called “karma highway” in Orr… it’s about just playing in Orr. Or many other zones for any extended period of time. In Orr, there is only one type of mob. Risen. That means that if you’re in Orr and killing things, anywhere for any reason, you will hit the loot cap very quickly. I’ve had it happen in the course of completing a temple chain. Even if you’re just exploring the map, if you want to actually be rewarded for all the enemies you’re hacking your way through on your way between POIs, you’ll have to take a half-hour break to sit in Lion’s Arch every hour or so, max. This isn’t about farming, it’s about playing with your hands tied. At least in other zones, be it maguuma, shiverpeaks, kryta, ascalon, there are multiple mob types so that if you’re playing legitimately and not just standing there killing centaurs all day, you’ll probably never hit the cap. But there is only one level 80 zone, and in it all enemies are the same.

This is just lazy game mechanics, and I honestly expected better of you, ANet. Instead of taking a proactive stance in regards to bots, you put in a lazy system that punishes your entire playerbase for the simple act of playing for an extended period. I’ve been trying to do my part, I’ve reported dozens of bots everywhere from Queensdale to Cursed Shore, but when I come back two weeks later and see the same bot still there, it quite frankly kittens me off. Forget “banning in waves,” you say it’s to prevent botters from figuring out how they got caught, but when they’re warping around for hours in high-traffic areas, I think it’s fairly obvious. All you’re doing is giving them weeks to run the same account, and they’re laughing all the way to the bank, meanwhile the rest of your playerbase suffers.

You need to get your act together before this game flops harder than SWTOR.

yeah it dose kinda brake the game.

There’s a reason why no other game does this. Penalizing players for how they want to play is never a good idea.

Exactly. Why should I be punished for playing the game they way I want to? Even if that means grinding.

What annoys me is when they say “there will be no grinding” and then put in a mechanic that requires it like crafting. really?

Newsin.1945:

What annoys me is when they say “there will be no grinding” and then put in a mechanic that requires it like crafting. really?

For that post, you’ll be swarmed by an army of rabid fanboys telling you how the grind is optional, without them taking into consideration the fact that besides grinding there’s nothing else to do at level 80 after you’ve done 100% map completion.

I agree with the OP, but there have been many threads like yours and they’ve all been ignored. I wanted to give ArenaNet the benefit of the doubt, but it’s been a month already and despite the controversy around this mechanic it’s still there. What else could you believe besides the fact that they mean to keep the players poor? You can’t possibly still believe it’s working against bots, because if it did, there wouldn’t be as many gold sellers as there are.

If this diminishing returns is going to be so heavy there needs to be better drop rates, especially for rare materials.

Look at all the DR, all the patches and all the reasons. Everything has to do with taking any and every possible way one can dependably make money…out of the game.

I wished there was a friggin sub so we could have avoided this.

What really ticks me of is that I’ve already got almost a full set of Exotic armor on, an Exotic weapon, enough food to last me for days, 3 crafting skills at 400, and no desire to get a Legendary at this time with the economy so broken, so pretty much all I farm for is WvWvW. Spent about 6g upgrading towers and keeps the other night which took me a couple of hours to farm fast-travelling between Cursed Shore and Frostgorge. Spend another couple of hours slowly but steadily taking our borderlands back and getting them fortified for peak hours, then two enemy zergs pop in and roll us all the way back to the Garrison within half an hour. Now, I got plenty of Karma from running around fighting supply camp wars and re-capping the keeps and whatnot, but it seems that if I want to play WvWvW, which most players consider the endgame, and do well for my server, I have to spend hours every day farming gold to have enough to buy us the upgrades we need to hold on. That wouldn’t be so bad, but it feels like the game is fighting me every step of the way, like it doesn’t want me to have fun. The anti-grinding mechanic is actually making me have to grind more, just to participate in the things I consider fun.

Oh, and furthermore, the loot cap needs to be removed entirely from WvWvW maps. I can understand the logic behind having it in PvE zones, flawed as that logic is, but to have the cap kick in and nerf my badge drops from killing other players in PvP is nothing short of moronic. I can confirm this. Was manning a cannon, defending the bay keep during a long, protracted siege. Was getting about 1 badge drop per 4-5 kills at the beginning. Around the end? Over 30 kills with zero badges.

This has disgusted me so much that I haven’t been able to bring myself to log in since Tuesday. It’s not that I don’t love this game and have fun playing it. It’s one of the best MMOs I’ve played since GW1… or at least for the first 30 minutes I try to do something before the system steps in and tells me I’m having too much fun. It’s like Gandalf’s standing on a bridge in front of me shouting “YOU SHALL NOT PLAY!” Truth is, if they don’t fix this, I probably won’t.

Revenant.2691:

What really ticks me of is that I’ve already got almost a full set of Exotic armor on, an Exotic weapon, enough food to last me for days, 3 crafting skills at 400, and no desire to get a Legendary at this time with the economy so broken, so pretty much all I farm for is WvWvW. Spent about 6g upgrading towers and keeps the other night which took me a couple of hours to farm fast-travelling between Cursed Shore and Frostgorge. Spend another couple of hours slowly but steadily taking our borderlands back and getting them fortified for peak hours, then two enemy zergs pop in and roll us all the way back to the Garrison within half an hour. Now, I got plenty of Karma from running around fighting supply camp wars and re-capping the keeps and whatnot, but it seems that if I want to play WvWvW, which most players consider the endgame, and do well for my server, I have to spend hours every day farming gold to have enough to buy us the upgrades we need to hold on. That wouldn’t be so bad, but it feels like the game is fighting me every step of the way, like it doesn’t want me to have fun. The anti-grinding mechanic is actually making me have to grind more, just to participate in the things I consider fun.

Oh, and furthermore, the loot cap needs to be removed entirely from WvWvW maps. I can understand the logic behind having it in PvE zones, flawed as that logic is, but to have the cap kick in and nerf my badge drops from killing other players in PvP is nothing short of moronic. I can confirm this. Was manning a cannon, defending the bay keep during a long, protracted siege. Was getting about 1 badge drop per 4-5 kills at the beginning. Around the end? Over 30 kills with zero badges.

This has disgusted me so much that I haven’t been able to bring myself to log in since Tuesday. It’s not that I don’t love this game and have fun playing it. It’s one of the best MMOs I’ve played since GW1… or at least for the first 30 minutes I try to do something before the system steps in and tells me I’m having too much fun. It’s like Gandalf’s standing on a bridge in front of me shouting “YOU SHALL NOT PLAY!” Truth is, if they don’t fix this, I probably won’t.

This is what some people mindlessly defend as innovation in the genre. Your points, while true, will probably not be taken into consideration by ArenaNet. The best that could happen now is that this thread won’t be invaded by the “fun” people who are so eager to jump at the throats of those who bring up valid concerns about the game.

don’t forget money is easy to come by. just press “O”. there’s a reason the store is the start page.

Gray.9650:

don’t forget money is easy to come by. just press “O”. there’s a reason the store is the start page.

I bet there’s also a reason why the conversion rate of gold to gems as gone up but gems to gold has stayed the same since diminishing returns was introduced in the patch awhile ago. Before that, gold to gems stayed the same at around 25-28s for a 100 gems but now its almost 40s. Maybe its to discourage people spending in game money for gems and get them to spend real money on them.

i don’t think they are going to listen to this. or any other threads about this.

yep, and I know it’s horrible, after 1-3 dyna events all I get is poruous bones.

Herpie derpie. In case you guys don’t know relogging or travelling to an other zone, will reset the loot/karma cap completly. So whenever you reach a cap simply log out to char screen and reload your char. Voila you have just resetted your loot/karma cap.

Ooh this has also been picked up by bots. I followed some and saw them relogging every 5-10 min (you’ll see them standing still even when there are mobs attacking them)

These “caps” are just a poorly designed scirpts just to butthurt us players.

Sorry to disagree here but this is not correct about Orr. I farm Orr everyday 2x a day and never hit any cap. I start at the top work my way all the way south, across the river then all the way north. DR has not once affected me at any point. I have received yellows in the beginning middle and end

The reason why you see so many posts about don’t stand in one place and do the same dynamic event is because that is how you get hit with DR.

A perfect example is I started working on my slayer tab. So I go to kill Sons of Sanir (or wth they are called) there is a small event (3 stages) that pops very often. About 1/2 way through the 2nd time 2nd event I get hit with it

And that is the way DR works and to me it is working as intended and is working correctly

Write.3192:

There’s a reason why no other game does this. Penalizing players for how they want to play is never a good idea.

This on top of all the sneaky nerfs they make, went from annoying to irritated.
By all means keep digging your own grave!

I constantly find myself thinking, while trying to play the game:
“Hmm. I’m getting less drops than before. Am I hitting diminishing returns? I would fight that mob over there but there’s no point, I’m not getting any drops after that last event.” It’s not fun to think about and I shouldn’t have worry about DR mechanics. Ain’t nobody got time for that.

I’d rather have fun. For me, it’s not at all about ‘give me more loot’ but the game deincentivizes me to keep playing after a certain point. I would rather get constant drops over the course of my play, than have a period of many drops and then a period where I might as well not be playing and incentivized to run past everything aggroing me because that zombie over there just isn’t worth killing anymore compared to just 15 minutes ago…

sadly they don’t care what we think they got are money
they’ll just wait for the next guy too buy the box

This thread is spot-on on so many levels. I hope the developers choose to read this one out of the sea of “you did dumb” posts out there.

(User was infracted for this post.)

Watch out boys, someone has hit a nerve.

I suspect, botting aside, the loot cap is in place to get people to take part in various DE’s around the world.

In order to keep the world feeling alive and for DEs to function there needs to be a constant flow of people moving around. It’s not that bad actually, you might even consider it fun if you let go of the traditional way of MMO grinding.

In order to keep the world feeling alive and for DEs to function there needs to be a constant flow of people moving around. It’s not that bad actually, you might even consider it fun if you let go of the traditional way of MMO grinding.

I just hit 80 a bit ago.. and honestly the world and those areas feel quite dead to me.. The amount of mobs that one has to wade through to get to one resource is insane in some areas,a and the respawn rate is way to high.. So if that is what you mean by ‘feeling alive’ well then I guess you are right. But then in the lower levels if you are fighting something and someone else wants the same node you are going for they have tendency to help.. In the level 80 area, yah they just run by mine the node and go off running.. Quite annoying actually.. Or even better, they aggro something, run right through you and drop them off so you have to fight them instead of them.. Yeah that was a brain child by their developers that I get someone else’s aggro.

I’ve never minded a grind in an MMO, it gives me something to do when I don’t have a lot of time.. At least I can go out and knock off a few mobs and work towards that goal. There are some things though in this game that makes no sense at all.

There are other ways to solve this.

I have the same concern in Orr (ddily achivment anyone) as the OP (which is why Im playing on alts now) they should simply change Orr so that in some “zones” risen are considered different mobs, so if you are moving around this (invisible) zones killing risen will not trigger anti farming codes.

@Kincaidia If you’re talking about the fact that the OP was infracted, you’ll probably get infracted for your post too. Of course, I’ll be getting infracted for this one too.

agree 100% – seeing this myself in orr. and too stingy to pop for the 5 silver to go hit the ice trolls for a bit. 10 silver round trip = meh. Even going by way of wvw still costs you around 5 silver rt.

I’ve actually pointed this out once or twice, but my post gets deleted usually…. so hopefully it won’t this time.

The DR system is designed to combat a problem; a developer/company problem. The system in place affects all players, legit or exploiters. This system basically shifts part of the burden of this problem onto gamers when it’s completely not our problem. This system does not stop exploiters for the reasons previously stated…. a botter can simply enter different parameters for the bot to login, run program, logout, wait X minutes, rinse and repeat; it merely slows them down.

Speed runs, bot and exploits suck and do need to be addressed sooner rather than later, but the DR system shouldn’t be the permanent solution.

OP I love this game. That said, I have another post where I begged Arenanet to remove the DR code immediately- to do a rollback.

It is one of the few post-launch bad decisions that I think they have made.

Said it before and will say it again. I hate farming. It bores me to tears. However, players that like it should not be penalized for doing it. DR goes against Arenanet’s “play it your way” philosophy.

If the point of DR was to address botting and speed runs, think of another way. Bots still exist and I still see people asking for speed runs. Clearly, DR has not “diminished” the occurrence of these activities.

Arenanet please remove DR from the game. It is frustrating players who otherwise love your game and approach.

Agreed completely. I think we’ve had enough consensus on this issue for ANet to finally do something. The DR systems for loot and events seem to be bugged and are seriously impacting normal gameplay.

ArenaNet, please please remove DR from the game. It’s anti-fun and anti-player and the game was MUCH better without it.

I support a better way to deal with these issues. Diminishing rewards is severely punishing legitimate players. This system will absolutely ruin this game.

I don’t think anyone knows what the DR system actually is, how it works, or when and where it works. Everyone is just working themselves into a frenzy of hyperbole and supposition, blaming anything and everything on this “boogieman”. Every bug, issue, or perceived injustice in the game is NOT the result of some mysterious, draconian system put in place to ruin everyone’s fun. The mob mentality in these threads is just totally out of control and not remotely constructive.

The developers have said repeatedly that the system is not designed to have any effect on players who are playing the game normally, as intended. Beyond that, they’ve said that they won’t be describing the system, because that would make it far easier for the exploiters / shortcutters to work around it. They’ve also acknowledged multiple times that there are bugs with the system, and they are working on it.

Don’t panic. ArenaNet’s intentions with their game design are obviously not immediately, intuitively apparent to some players, especially those who have set ways of playing games in this genre that have been developed over years of the same game mechanics in every game. Take a deep breath, and take a look at whether it’s at least possible that a fresh perspective and trying things a new way might not drastically increase your enjoyment of this entire experience.

A lot of people seem to discount this game’s differences, while at the same time complaining that their way of doing things isn’t working. Maybe your way isn’t working because this game actually is more different than you thought. Relax and keep an open mind. Try doing things differently. You may just be pleasantly surprised, and I’ll bet you never end up having a problem with the big, bad, scary DR system.

The developers have said repeatedly that the system is not designed to have any effect on players who are playing the game normally, as intended.

You’re confused here. They haven’t said anything at all about loot and event DR, they have only commented on dungeon DR. This thread is not about that.

Also, your post is not useful to this discussion at all, simply coming in here and claiming everyone is simply exaggerating adds nothing and on top of that is also wrong. The loot and event DR systems are well observed and their effects well known across dozens of threads.

Please stop intentionally derailing the thread, thanks.

DR was in GW1. I found it annoying then. I find it annoying now. Even so I don’t expect them to ever remove it. It’s their thing.

ChairGraveyard

The loot and event DR systems are well observed and their effects well known across dozens of threads.

Please stop intentionally derailing the thread, thanks.

Ah, so because there are multiple threads full of hyperbole and dubious anecdotal evidence, that somehow makes the panic more legitimate? The fact that ArenaNet hasn’t said anything at all about event and loot DR somehow makes the random guesses more worthwhile?

I’m not derailing at all. I’m simply calling for calm rationality. Patience. An open mind. Are those things really off-topic here?

Sorry to mess up your pitchfork and torch party. Carry on.

Honestly, I think just the awareness that there IS a DR system in place is almost as destructive as actually having one. Are all of you REALLY hitting DR or are you just having bad luck? It’s a legitimate question; bad and good luck does happen.

Flip a coin an infinite number of times and eventually you will find a continuous streak of 100 of the same result, despite how ridiculously small the probability of such a streak is.

Ok OP how bout you and your supporter provide AN with a real working solution to this botting/hacking problem instead of just blaming AN for being lazy.

I don’t know a good solution but i know that loot capping is not it, its punishing everyone for just playing the game. When Anet said they were gonna make a game without grinding, i didn’t realize they were gonna actually make it impossible.

What I loved about crafting on my first character was being able to equip myself throughout the leveling process, if I needed to go spend two hours farming mosquitoes for their venom sacks I would. It was great to be able to be self sufficient by crafting gear that was relevant to my level, I don’t see that as a reasonable option now. To avoid DR I’d have to keep moving areas, the waypoint cost then needs to be factored in, money is not prolific in this game and wasting time zoning to the Mists>LA>Closest city isn’t an attractive option either. I’m happy to work (Grind) for my craft but with so many obstacles it’s not an attractive proposition any more, I’m just glad I’ve got a lvl 80 who can support my second characters crafting by providing a little cash for TP purchases.

My lvl 80 rarely has above 1 gold, he’s probably level 87 by now and still hasn’t got his last trait book. Dungeons can cost more than they reward, long chained DE’s in high level areas stop producing loot before I’m even half way through them.

I love the game but this is really disheartening

Write.3192:

There’s a reason why no other game does this. Penalizing players for how they want to play is never a good idea.

I agree. I really don’t like who ANet handles this and how they are failing utterly miserably at handling bots.

It is really souring me on this game.

I’ve mentioned this idea a Suggestion post the other day; I’ll share it here in hopes maybe a rep from Anet sees it.

Do away with Anti-Farm code and DR in all it’s forms. Instead, focus on your Dynamic system and expand it.

Players have been asking for more content, more challenge and events that at least seem to alter the area we are in.

Two birds with one stone:

Adjust the DEs to have progressive difficulty. The more players win an event, the more difficult it becomes the next time around. So, for example; Shelter Gate. Players win X times, after awhile; normal Risen no longer spawn. Instead, more and more Vets show up. If players keep winning, some of these Vets turn to Champions. This continues till even several Group Champion bosses show up to evict the players.

Players will get to see what happens with a loss (more content); get a run for their money (more challenge) and bots get a slap down.

Apply this to mobs around the world. Killing a certain spawn X amount of times results in a Vet spawning. Continuing on the same theme as the DEs.

Can add a life timer to the Champion Bosses and Vets so they despawn after some time so as not to have a zone full of big nasties as well.

A type of system like this rewards players, lets them continue playing/farming etc as they want and deals with the bots by making their “farm” spots constantly at rish of being over run by larger foes.

#just a passing idea

I have to agree, the Karma highway is the best 80 toons have to look forward too. We need more endgame cntent, heck we need endgame content period!

Dark.7235:

I have to agree, the Karma highway is the best 80 toons have to look forward too. We need more endgame cntent, heck we need endgame content period!

I agree. In GW1 farming was the “end game”. I found it a bit mind numbing at times; but it was relaxing now and then as well.
GW2 wants us to do something different. OK, I can try something new. Yet, each time I try, I get my hand slapped a bit.
Anti-Farm code. No farming.
DR. No Event farming.
OK… Let’s try roaming the world. Where’s the drops for my level? Oh, back on Orr or Frostgorge. Doh! Back I go. Um, to do what?

Not a fan of PvP in this style of game at all. WvW was only mildly OK. I’ll pass on it though. Dungeons, meh. Don’t really like going with PuGs, so I’m limited to about once a week at most on these.

Rewards need to scale to the players level just as costs do. The Anti-bot gimicks need to be thrown out and a more Progressive Event system pushed in. – if Anet is concerned about too much gold in the game, add more armor sets. Players been asking for more since BWE1. Worried about no one buying Gems? Add some armor sets to require both Gold and Gems. Players still don’t HAVE to buy Gems, they can use the exchange.
There’s lots of things Anet can do here; they just need to get back to being creative – like we all know they are.

So has this diminishing returns system combat botting in any way? No. Real players are still being punished as a result of an ineffective system implemented but anet.

Good job guys, this is the only game I feel as if I am punished for trying to make gold.

It’s a horrible system. The worst. I almost considered buying gems and converting to gold last night because I was tired of having to kill kitten for 30 minutes, hit DR, repeat, repeat, for minimal gold. I only log in for WvW now and due to all the cheating/exploiting/hacking/double-teaming going on I can’t even be bothered with that now. The DR will never be removed from the game so I’ll just have to remove myself. It’s good there is no subscription, maybe if I come back later they’ll have realized what a dumb mistake they’ve made.

You guys make little things SO dramatic.
GW2 is going to die! Horrible! Fail!
Yay let’s gigantize things and make it seems like it’s the end of the world!

Anet put DR as a placeholder and they will tweak it according to feedback.
Noticed feedback is bolded? These are just baby cries and drama, not feedback.
Give them proper informations instead of being a moany child or making embarassing threats.
Did mom buy you that toy when you cried and screamed for it? No.
Did she buy it when you asked please and explained why you wanted it? Yes.

Anet is doing a great job at gathering your feedback, but they might be less willing to do so if every time they have to swim between your tears to find the informations they need.

There’s a precedent for it Red Falcon. Other games have tried similar systems that punish innocent players in such big ways that it destroys their population in such a short period of time that they can’t recover from it.

Take FFXIV, released to massive fanfare and right from the start it had a DR experience system, where you were punished as a player for playing the game longer than they thought you should.

SE were dictating to their player base how they should play the game and it really really annoyed people.

A leading Japanese game review magazine tore into SE and other magazines and online puplications followed suit. That’s unheard of in Japan. You really have to do something wrong to force the JP population to lose their cool.

The problem was by the time SE got around the taking the DR system out, they’d lost (and I’m not joking when I say this) millions of players.

It now has a population in the tens of thousands, if even that and it’s just in death’s waiting room ready to be put out of its misery. It will never ever recover from the worst idea in developer history.

You cannot have “placeholders” in this industry. It’s far too competitive for that. By the time you’ve got around to actually listening to what your player base is saying, they’ve already left and your game then just waits around to die.

As a developer the worst thing you can ever do to a gamer is say “Look I’ve made this game for you, but you’re going to play the way I have intended for you to play it.”

This philosophy has never worked and never will and there’s always massive backlash over it.

We’re not being dramatic at all, we’re raising a legitimate point that if something isn’t done to arrest this serious problem, there’ll be no game left to play.

There are easier ways to prevent botting and abuse of in-game mechanics if you really want to do this.

You need a dedicated team that can investigate reports and actually be pro-active about getting rid of botters and people who abuse the system.

That costs money, putting in a DR system is cheap and instant. The massive downside is, it’s a game killer.

Laying a blanket punishment that effects all players and forces them to play the way you intend is far too punitive and takes most of the fun out of the game.

It’ll be changed as people won’t be forced or cowed into playing the game someone else’s way.

Raising legitimate concerns is not drama. It’s raising legitimate concerns in the hope that ANet don’t let their game die before they find an alternative to the DR.

There’s no way this system will stay in forever.

It’s just a question of how fast they take it out. If they don’t act soon, sadly there will be little active population left to play with.

Seeing as it’s a pay-up-front game ANet could care less at the moment as they’ve already got all our money and the in-game store is a joke if you actually see what’s for sale there.

This fact means that they’re unlikely to move to change the game system soon.

It doesn’t look good at all.

+1 to Ronin.

Seriously, most of the playerbase complaining are players who have been playing MMOs for years and years. From as low kitten years,to as high as 10+, saying that we are just a bunch of whiny kids is ludicrous.

All of us have seen these things happen before. We don’t complain,we just point towards the conclusion that the past attempts to something like this has shown. Punishing the player is a cheap way of making sure that you won’t lose income, sure, but then you will get punished back by the player itself.

Apos.5184:

+1 to Ronin.

Seriously, most of the playerbase complaining are players who have been playing MMOs for years and years. From as low kitten years,to as high as 10+, saying that we are just a bunch of whiny kids is ludicrous.

All of us have seen these things happen before. We don’t complain,we just point towards the conclusion that the past attempts to something like this has shown. Punishing the player is a cheap way of making sure that you won’t lose income, sure, but then you will get punished back by the player itself.

+1 from me as well. A game developer can never get away with telling players: “play the game the way we want you to” and for an MMO developer it’s even worse. The MMO market is already crowded with games, while definitely not having as many players as other genres. ArenaNet said they aimed to attract even non-MMO players. How are they going to do that when there are limitations in the game that don’t exist in single players? Not getting any loot after half an hour in Orr would be similar to being kicked from Witcher 2 after 2 hours with the message: “You’ve seen enough of Geralt’s story today. Come back tomorrow.”

Oh ArenaNet’s deciding that I should only have 30 minutes long play sessions? Well, how about if I and other like-minded players decide that we should have 0 minutes long play sessions? What will they do then?

Gauradan.8361:

Oh ArenaNet’s deciding that I should only have 30 minutes long play sessions? Well, how about if I and other like-minded players decide that we should have 0 minutes long play sessions? What will they do then?

Probably shrug their shoulders and watch a disappointed minority make hardly any dent in the overall player population when they leave.

DusK.3849:

Probably shrug their shoulders and watch a disappointed minority make hardly any dent in the overall player population when they leave.

You’re throwing that argument around as if it were a fact. Are you privy to some secret statistics from inside ArenaNet?

DusK.3849:

Gauradan.8361:

Oh ArenaNet’s deciding that I should only have 30 minutes long play sessions? Well, how about if I and other like-minded players decide that we should have 0 minutes long play sessions? What will they do then?

Probably shrug their shoulders and watch a disappointed minority make hardly any dent in the overall player population when they leave.

Yep, that’s what D3 players think to this day. they are still oblivious that their beloved game still has a user voted score of 3.4 and has lost an astonishing over 70% of its playerbase. To them, that 70% was the “minority” as well.

I bet that SWTOR players still thinks that their game rocks as well, it doesn’t change the fact that its struggling economically.

The “good, then those who enjoy the game will get to enjoy it more” argument is hollow. This is an MMO, you need a big playerbase and that means that you have to please different kinds of people.