Probably shrug their shoulders and watch a disappointed minority make hardly any dent in the overall player population when they leave.
You’re throwing that argument around as if it were a fact. Are you privy to some secret statistics from inside ArenaNet?
Not really, but unless you really think there are more than 30k whiners on this forum, the gameplay statistics from Xfire are enough.
Probably shrug their shoulders and watch a disappointed minority make hardly any dent in the overall player population when they leave.
You’re throwing that argument around as if it were a fact. Are you privy to some secret statistics from inside ArenaNet?
Not really, but unless you really think there are more than 30k whiners on this forum, the gameplay statistics from Xfire are enough.
http://beta.xfire.com/games/gw2
You said it yourself. Bask before the gameplay statistics you used as an argument.
Yeah, I know what the graph looks like; just like any other MMO post-release. What a twist!
But seriously, this:
The “good, then those who enjoy the game will get to enjoy it more” argument is hollow. This is an MMO, you need a big playerbase and that means that you have to please different kinds of people.
I find hilarious. GW2’s Metacritic user score hasn’t moved from it’s 8.3 spot since release. This might be a hard idea for you to grasp, but there are far more people enjoying the game at any given moment than there are people so frustrated with the game that they feel the need to come onto the forum and post pages about how “terrible” it is, or how it’s “dying”.
Crazy, I know. But whatcha gonna do?
This was one of the main reasons that I left gw1 for lotro (along with the constant class nerfs), and things were even worse when I came back just prior to gw2 release. The thing is, at that time, it didnt matter to anet if people left, because they already had your money. But, now with the cash shop, they need people to stay active, so that people will use the shop…….
Yeah, I know what the graph looks like; just like any other MMO post-release. What a twist!
But seriously, this:
The “good, then those who enjoy the game will get to enjoy it more” argument is hollow. This is an MMO, you need a big playerbase and that means that you have to please different kinds of people.
I find hilarious. GW2’s Metacritic user score hasn’t moved from it’s 8.3 spot since release. This might be a hard idea for you to grasp, but there are far more people enjoying the game at any given moment than there are people so frustrated with the game that they feel the need to come onto the forum and post pages about how “terrible” it is, or how it’s “dying”.
Crazy, I know. But whatcha gonna do?
No,not really, because some of us actually have the patience to wait for arenanet to do their move before we go to metacritic and give a bad score.
This is what D3 players said, this is what SWTOR players said,this is what AION players said, this is what AOC players said and this is what Tera players said. It’s the same blind faith into the developers every time and every time the ending is that a big part of the playerbase is lost and the game loses value as a whole as well.
Are we stupid for warning arenanet about it? Guess we are, guess we should just wait for the one developer that won’t do this mistake. If Arenanet chooses securing income by burdening the player, then obviously they are not the company we wait for.
sadly they don’t care what we think they got are money
they’ll just wait for the next guy too buy the box
Well they should because the only way they get additional monies once a person has paid for the game is the cash shop. They rely on “repeat sales.” If the player no longer logs in to play, they have zero chance of the repeat sale. It’s kind of a business 101 thing.
Yeah, I know what the graph looks like; just like any other MMO post-release. What a twist!
But seriously, this:
The “good, then those who enjoy the game will get to enjoy it more” argument is hollow. This is an MMO, you need a big playerbase and that means that you have to please different kinds of people.
I find hilarious. GW2’s Metacritic user score hasn’t moved from it’s 8.3 spot since release. This might be a hard idea for you to grasp, but there are far more people enjoying the game at any given moment than there are people so frustrated with the game that they feel the need to come onto the forum and post pages about how “terrible” it is, or how it’s “dying”.
Crazy, I know. But whatcha gonna do?
That same argument was used for WAR, AoC, SWTOR, Secret World, etc. It doesn’t hold any more water than this game being shut down in 2 months.
The fact is that the bots are out of control and ArenaNet needs to hire some people to just ban them. Every major event in ORR has 5-6 bots there. Every spot to get high demand crafting materials has 15+ bots there. I ran acrossed a bot farm yesterday right outside Yak’s Bend waypoint in frostgorge with 15 bots all standing on top of eachother spamming skills and looting.
The wait and ban approach only makes paying customers feel like ArenaNet is doing nothing; which if the bots on my server are any indication, they aren’t. I’ve seen the same bot guild for almost a month now, I reported them then and I report them now. If they are banning then they need to hire some part time staff to help out because it isn’t fast enough. The economy is already tanked, the bots are running rampant, and the only people being punished are the actual real players. Boggles my mind.
You said there are 30k “whiners”. My friend and my brother, both of whom I started playing the game with, have quit. The small guild my friend, brother and I were in is all but dead, with the 4-5 people out of 17 that are still logging in representing other guilds. None of them came to the forums as far as I’m aware. They just stopped logging in. Thus, not everyone who has quit the game came to the forums to complain.
But you know what? You keep seeing everything in pink and saying the game is doing fine. However, do please tell me how fun the game will be when only you and your entourage are left playing.
Alright, let’s go into some hypotheticals. Let’s say the DR system was removed entirely, and some sort of bonus system like the one I described earlier was put in its place. Now farmers are getting nowhere near as much experience, gold, karma, and items compared to players who are moving about and varying their activities, but are still getting what they got before the DR system went into place.
How long do you think it would be before the Gen Disc boards are flooded with self-entitled farmers going on about how the increased benefits from varied content are “unfair to people trying to farm”?
Because make no mistake, it would happen. See the whole issue isn’t with this DR system isn’t about punishing “the entire player base,” because it doesn’t. I remain unaffected. Many, or dare I say, possibly most players remain unaffected. The only people affected are time-rich players who insist that their low-risk/low-effort activities should be met with high reward. And those affected by the bugs in the system right now, but we’re not talking about them.
These people, even under the circumstances given in my first paragraph, would be back here on the forums, demanding higher rewards for their farming to match those who aren’t. I guarantee it, because that’s how people who want handouts work.
Alright, let’s go into some hypotheticals. Let’s say the DR system was removed entirely, and some sort of bonus system like the one I described earlier was put in its place. Now farmers are getting nowhere near as much experience, gold, karma, and items compared to players who are moving about and varying their activities, but are still getting what they got before the DR system went into place.
How long do you think it would be before the Gen Disc boards are flooded with self-entitled farmers going on about how the increased benefits from varied content are “unfair to people trying to farm”?
Because make no mistake, it would happen. See the whole issue isn’t with this DR system isn’t about punishing “the entire player base,” because it doesn’t. I remain unaffected. Many, or dare I say, possibly most players remain unaffected. The only people affected are time-rich players who insist that their low-risk/low-effort activities should be met with high reward. And those affected by the bugs in the system right now, but we’re not talking about them.
These people, even under the circumstances given in my first paragraph, would be back here on the forums, demanding higher rewards for their farming to match those who aren’t. I guarantee it, because that’s how people who want handouts work.
Your statements are nothing than hypothesis as well.
People enjoy being rewarded from what they do and yes, people will complain when they are not rewarded proportionally to the time they invest.
Saying that people will complain about why other people are rewarded more is foolish. Most of the people will just start doing what rewards them more instead. Because this is what they play for, for getting something out of the time they invest.
Sorry, but unless the difference is enormous, I haven’t seen a normal person complain about why he isn’t rewarded enough,as long as giving some extra time will get him there eventually. The problem is that the current system forces a stop on that extra time and that’s something that noone likes.
Alright, let’s go into some hypotheticals. Let’s say the DR system was removed entirely, and some sort of bonus system like the one I described earlier was put in its place. Now farmers are getting nowhere near as much experience, gold, karma, and items compared to players who are moving about and varying their activities, but are still getting what they got before the DR system went into place.
How long do you think it would be before the Gen Disc boards are flooded with self-entitled farmers going on about how the increased benefits from varied content are “unfair to people trying to farm”?
Because make no mistake, it would happen. See the whole issue isn’t with this DR system isn’t about punishing “the entire player base,” because it doesn’t. I remain unaffected. Many, or dare I say, possibly most players remain unaffected. The only people affected are time-rich players who insist that their low-risk/low-effort activities should be met with high reward. And those affected by the bugs in the system right now, but we’re not talking about them.
These people, even under the circumstances given in my first paragraph, would be back here on the forums, demanding higher rewards for their farming to match those who aren’t. I guarantee it, because that’s how people who want handouts work.
I never had any problem with the karma DR on events, because I never was one to farm the same events over and over again. Sure, I only stayed in Curse Shore, but I ran across the zone instead of just sitting on one camp waiting for events. My problem is with the loot DR. Loot is already scarcer than in most MMOs, having it diminish over time is even worse.
You know what’s worse about Guild Wars 2 than those other games that people are mentioning? Those games died out because they were lacking fundamentally in design, whereas Guild Wars 2 is just digging its own grave with a couple of stupid mechanics despite being a great game overall. That’s why people are complaining: because it would be a shame for this game to kill itself in such an idiotic manner. I left SWTOR without complaining because I knew the game was just another gear grind and I just couldn’t cope with that anymore, especially after seeing the promise in this game.
However, I came here just to find that getting gold is the hardest from all the MMOs I’ve played and that’s because of 2 issues: the anti-farm code and bots. The code stops me from getting crafting materials to sell and the bots stop me from selling even those few materials that I get at decent prices, because of the huge amount of mats they’re dumping into the market.
(edited by Gauradan.8361)
These people, even under the circumstances given in my first paragraph, would be back here on the forums, demanding higher rewards for their farming to match those who aren’t. I guarantee it, because that’s how people who want handouts work.
I seriously doubt that, because there’s a difference between taking rewards away and rewarding variation.
They changed it so that you get more badges for doing different paths in dungeons, are people complaining that the easiest path should always be rewarded as much as doing 3 different paths? no!
Despite DR I think drop rates just suck.
You said there are 30k “whiners”. My friend and my brother, both of whom I started playing the game with, have quit. The small guild my friend, brother and I were in is all but dead, with the 4-5 people out of 17 that are still logging in representing other guilds. None of them came to the forums as far as I’m aware. They just stopped logging in. Thus, not everyone who has quit the game came to the forums to complain.
But you know what? You keep seeing everything in pink and saying the game is doing fine. However, do please tell me how fun the game will be when only you and your entourage are left playing.
My guild is also all but dead.
And Orr, being the prime endzone of the game is dead to me with the mass number of individuals at penitent/shelters gate DE farm.
While I did get a second lvl 80, few of the guildies have even bothered with leveling an alt.
White Knights of Arenanet keep denying to themselves that the game has a problem, considering MoP had, by all indications, a smooth launch too, I would not hesitate to say that quite a few people will not be back from their ‘breaks’. Anet keeps nerfing what WE CAN DO rather than fixing what we cant do.
The whole DR system is a joke, “Don’t stay in one area too long and get ready to bend over as you port around”. If I cant make gold at 80 then whats the point of playing the game because there is nothing else to do!
Edit: I payed $60 for the game and $90 for gems, If Anet wants me to continue to open my wallet then they better let me have some fun!
(edited by Soulwatcher.2604)
Well, i already got 1 friend to buy this game before release. Now i have two more friends who dont know whether to buy this or not. I’m afriad i’ll just have to tell them about this stupid DR system in the game.
The best post i have ever read in a long time about DR issues.
The best post i have ever read in a long time about DR issues.
What, a month? Lol.
The best post i have ever read in a long time about DR issues.
What, a month? Lol.
It is like an eternity over here.
OK, so I have seen a lot of threads about the DR system in place in this game. I think the discussion here in this thread has been very positive and proactive in looking for a resolution to this issue. I do however have a few (hopefully not stupid) questions about DR. Is there a thread or post by an ANET rep that details how this system actually works? I ask this because my understanding of this system is based on player reports and not an official response. If anyone can point me in that direction so that I can better inform myself, that would be most appreciated.
i don’t think they have or will tell anyone how it works exactly, to prevent botters from taking advantage.
I think it’s hilarious when people say things like “well so what if all the hardcore MMO players leave? They’re only a small percentage of the population.” If ignorance is bliss, the people saying this stuff have to be some happy little kittens. What group of players typically forms the core of any game and spends the most real world money on it? Anyway, I digress… movin’ right along.
Now, as far as the DR mechanics go, one of two things needs to happen. The first is, throw the entire system out. The second is add more high-level content OR a system to make drops scale up to you in low-level areas.
Now, I don’t know why Anet thought they could get away with having only one level 80 zone, Cursed Shore. If we had a variety of areas to go do things in at 80, this issue would pretty much disappear. As it stands though, if we want to get worthwhile loot, we’ve got to be in Cursed Shore. I’ll take a hit every once in a while when I get eyes-bleedingly bored and go to Frostgorge, but the drops there aren’t nearly as good in my experience. Add more level 80 zones, and the problem will become less of a problem.
The other solution is to have loot scale up with you. I mean, REALLY scale up with you, not just get slightly better if you’re overwhelmingly over-levelled for the zone you’re in. I’m talking level 80 rares dropping in Queensdale. The idea with the level scaling mechanic was to give players a more or less challenging experience no matter where they were. This has also failed, as the mobs in a zone you cleared at level 30 will drop the same stuff at level 80, but you’ll be scaled down so that they still present a “challenge.” For this reason, after getting 100% map completion, I have not set foot outside of Lion’s Arch/Cursed Shore/Frostgorge. I am sorry if this is not the way I am supposed to be playing the game I paid Anet money for, but it would be moronic of me to do anything else, because I like making gold. Scratch that, I like spending gold, and I absolutely detest the hoops I have to jump through to make it, especially with the massive cash sinks that are in place. As it stands, however, if I want to spend my weekend playing WvW, a part of the game I still consider amazingly fun despite the current hacking issues, I have to spend pretty much all my gametime on friday night grinding gold. Playing WvW to win is expensive. So in order to have my fun, I need to bang my head against the wall for ages in the face of a mechanic that punishes me for wanting to get my unpleasant farming out of the way quickly. A mechanic that no rational human being could possibly think is a good idea.
There’s still the option of buying gems to sell for gold… but I can promise you that, at this moment while these issues still stand, this will never happen. There’s an old saying about throwing good money after bad, and at this point, as painful as it is for me to say it because I truly, deeply want to love this game, the $60 I paid for it was bad money. The story’s excellent, the PvP’s the best I’ve ever seen, the game is beautiful and takes everything I loved about the original and translates it perfectly into a next-gen MMO… but this one, single “feature” totally destroys the rest. It’s like finding a maggot on a filet mignon. It’s a big steak and a little maggot, but it’s still a maggot on my steak, and I’m not buying anything else from this particular restaurant until they clean their act up.
Log to char screen, log back in. Problem solved
Can’t believed ANet didn’t even test that variable…
Hump, that’s not a solution. Firstly, I would consider that an exploit… and I’m sure ANet would, too. Secondly, the bot programmers know about this now, you’ll see bots relog every few minutes, so that loophole will probably be fixed soon.
What annoys me is when they say “there will be no grinding” and then put in a mechanic that requires it like crafting. really?
I agree with this. I hate grinding and think it is the laziest tactic for both developers and players. People who WANT to grind for long hours, honestly give me a small depression about the state of humanity.
I was quite taken aback when I did the math of trying to level crafting in my head and realised the only way to get enough fine materials was to grind, since I had out levelled the story and completed the zones where those items drop.
One in the minus column for Anet, to be sure. They should radically reduce the amount of fine mats needed for levelling crafts. It’s supposed to be a game, not a job!
DR gets a thumbs up from me. It stops people turning into grinding zombies and it stops the gold sellers. Two birds for the price of one. And yes, this is me telling you how you should play. When you make bad decisions in life, the people who put you straight are on your side, however much you might resent them.
@Cribbage like it or not in this game you NEED people to play. Chasing players away from the game is going to make a sad Cribbage the day you log in and there is no one to play with!
Woah wait. OP, so they added a DR to loot? I already hated Orr with a passion for not being able to walk 3 feet in the zone without aggroing 3-6 mobs. Now they won’t even drop loot? ._.
And the endgame PvE is my alternative to PvP when WvW (My pvp poison o’ choice) is FUBAR’d for the week? Skyrim. Soooooo much skyrim this week! xD
It’s a good thing there’s no monthly sub for this game. .-.
Woah wait. OP, so they added a DR to loot? I already hated Orr with a passion for not being able to walk 3 feet in the zone without aggroing 3-6 mobs. Now they won’t even drop loot? ._.
And the endgame PvE is my alternative to PvP when WvW (My pvp poison o’ choice) is FUBAR’d for the week? Skyrim. Soooooo much skyrim this week! xD
It’s a good thing there’s no monthly sub for this game. .-.
No,you don’t get it entirely.
The diminishing returns work even inside WvW. Ever wondered why you stop finding badges of honor after a while?
@Cribbage like it or not in this game you NEED people to play. Chasing players away from the game is going to make a sad Cribbage the day you log in and there is no one to play with!
I don’t really see how players logging on to grind helps me. It doesn’t give me anyone to team with in PvP and it doesn’t give allies to kill event bosses with.
Yes, I definitely DO need a decent level of population to play, but they need to be something other than grinding zombies to have a beneficial effect on my game.
Because none of those “zombie farmers” will stop to do an event if they happen to pass by right?
You really miss the whole “farming” idea. If they want materials so bad, then it’s fairly certain that they will want karma just as much.
But ye, you know all I guess.
Yeah, I know all I guess, cos I disagree with you. And that means I got a bad attitude or something, right?
I can do without farmers. Even if some of them occasionally stop for an event, it’s not enough to make me care about having them in the game. If we don’t have a high enough pop from people playing for the fun of PvP or events, I’ll be out of here.
Also, the DR mechanic isn’t really doing much to stop botters. I’ve seen a lot more bots start cropping up in lower-level areas with less in Orr over the past few days, and a few of them were remarkably advanced. They were actually moving between sites to bypass the mechanic. Since they’re running literally all day and don’t have other stuff, like having fun to do, the lower-quality drops wouldn’t seem to bother them as much, especially since they’re mostly hacked accounts anyway.
Next time you go through even a zone as low-level as kessex hills, keep an eye out. You’ll see the odd player here and there running into a wall for a few seconds, backing up a bit, turning a bit, then running forward a little more until they’re in the clear. Then they’ll get to an area with mobs and you’ll see the usual glitchy bot fighting. Mobs are all dead, they move on further until they find more mobs. It’s like watching the old videos of the first computer-controlled cars ten years back.
As far as Anet not wanting us to farm in this game goes, allow me to deliver my rebuttal: Legendary weapons. The prosecution rests.
EDIT Crib, you know how painful it is to shell out 1.5g for a keep wall upgrade? I do just about every day when I’m WvWing, because I want my server to win. That gold’s gotta come from somewhere. I don’t enjoy farming, but it’s necessary to get the money/items/etc I need to do stuff like that. And when the amount of time I have to spend in this remarkably dull, pointless activity is increased exponentially by this lazy solution, it makes me just a little mad.
If I want to craft a set of exotic gear, I’m going to need to do a lot of farming. I don’t like farming, but if I want to have the best available gear to be more competitive in WvW, I have to. The impression you seem to be under is that everyone who is against this mechanic loves nothing more than to sit around Penitent camp whacking undead all day. I’m willing to bet that the majority of people here who are upset about this mechanic are so because it makes them spend even more time standing around Penitent camp whacking undead instead of doing fun stuff, like WvW. I hope this clarifies where we’re coming from for you a bit.
(edited by Revenant.2691)
So you want everyone to quit? Right?
If you enjoy playing a game on your own, why buy an MMO then?
You can do without farmers, ok, nice. What else do you want out of the way in order to please you?
It’s not me who seems to have trouble accepting people with different opinions actually…
@Cribbage like it or not in this game you NEED people to play. Chasing players away from the game is going to make a sad Cribbage the day you log in and there is no one to play with!
I don’t really see how players logging on to grind helps me. It doesn’t give me anyone to team with in PvP and it doesn’t give allies to kill event bosses with.
Yes, I definitely DO need a decent level of population to play, but they need to be something other than grinding zombies to have a beneficial effect on my game.
Who do you think buys and sells materials? Who do you think trades gold for gems? Who do you think grinds honor badges for hours on end making PVP enjoyable? I could go on and on DR effects PVP and PVE.
So you want everyone to quit? Right?
If you enjoy playing a game on your own, why buy an MMO then?
You can do without farmers, ok, nice. What else do you want out of the way in order to please you?
It’s not me who seems to have trouble accepting people with different opinions actually…
So when I say “I can do without farmers” you read:
1) I want all players to quit
2) I want anyone who farms to “get out of my way”
3) I play MMOs even though I prefer not to ever see other people online
Lol, with reasoning like that, it kinda doesn’t matter what I say – you’ll just drama queen it into something else.
To clarify – when I say I can do without farmers, it means if some people quit GW2 who would otherwise be sat on one small area kill the same mobs repeatedly, I don’t expect I will notice their absence. I do however want the game to be full of active, fun players who are PvPing and participating in dynamic content.
@Cribbage like it or not in this game you NEED people to play. Chasing players away from the game is going to make a sad Cribbage the day you log in and there is no one to play with!
I don’t really see how players logging on to grind helps me. It doesn’t give me anyone to team with in PvP and it doesn’t give allies to kill event bosses with.
Yes, I definitely DO need a decent level of population to play, but they need to be something other than grinding zombies to have a beneficial effect on my game.
Who do you think buys and sells materials? Who do you think trades gold for gems? Who do you think grinds honor badges for hours on end making PVP enjoyable? I could go on and on DR effects PVP and PVE.
I think you are kinda missing the point.
If grinding mats is a necessary part of the game economy, my preference is to change the economy so it is no longer necessary. Not to invite a load of farmers to play.
If grinding honour badges is the only way to get someone to PvP, then my preference is to make PvP be enough fun that people don’t NEED and artificial currency to motivate them.
In other words, make the game fun enough that people will actually want to play it for its own sake.
Can someone explain me this:
1. if relogging removes the DR
2. if bots learned to relog at regular times as someone described (and I’m sure that could be coded real easy)
3. than what is the purpose of this DR system aside selling gems for real money?
Here is something – if the DR system was in place at launch, and the devs made it clear that it would be a permanent part of the game, would you have purchased the game?
So you want everyone to quit? Right?
If you enjoy playing a game on your own, why buy an MMO then?
You can do without farmers, ok, nice. What else do you want out of the way in order to please you?
It’s not me who seems to have trouble accepting people with different opinions actually…
So when I say “I can do without farmers” you read:
1) I want all players to quit
2) I want anyone who farms to “get out of my way”
3) I play MMOs even though I prefer not to ever see other people online
Lol, with reasoning like that, it kinda doesn’t matter what I say – you’ll just drama queen it into something else.
To clarify – when I say I can do without farmers, it means if some people quit GW2 who would otherwise be sat on one small area kill the same mobs repeatedly, I don’t expect I will notice their absence. I do however want the game to be full of active, fun players who are PvPing and participating in dynamic content.
Those are called bots, someone who farms is not what you describe.
Do you even know what someone describes by saying “farming”?
It means that if I want to spend this day farming mithril and poison sacks in order to craft the gear that I want with the stats that I want, before I do any sort of pvp or pve for example, then I should be able to do it.
That’s what farming means, it means being able to devote some extra time into a boring task in order to get a reward that you will use on the other, more enjoyable, tasks.
But hey,I am the one who is using hyperboles, right?
Cribbage. It’s my right to be a zombie farmer if that’s what I want to do. Your perception of how you think I want to farm and the reality are two very different things.
Stop telling me how to play a game when I’m not telling you how to do the same thing. It’s exactly this that’s the problem.
You think you know what’s good for me and what I should be getting out of the game. You don’t and stop pretending you do.
What I want to do isn’t game breaking, isn’t outside of game mechanics and it makes me happy to play that way. I have my own reasons for wanting to stay in one area, for hours if needs be. I shouldn’t have to explain them to anyone.
Back up the devs with this DR all you want, it’s not healthy for the game and has been tried before in lots of different incarnations and has failed every time. In many instances DR was taken out too late and the ship had already sunk.
It’s going to happen if it isn’t taken out, it’s just a question of when.
Can we tone it down a little bit with the rhetoric? Crib’s every bit as entitled to his opinion as we are, so maybe it might be more constructive to explain our point of view on this better than to simply cop out and call people fanboys who want the game to die.
Crib, if you read the second half of my post a few minutes ago I think you’ll get a better idea of where we’re coming from. Most of us hate grinding and farming, but feel like the system makes us have to do that more to do the other stuff we like. People who like to craft and sell armor, for instance, or people who want to make money/get better gear for WvW. It’s not as if we’re all in here complaining that we’re not allowed to mindlessly kill the same mobs all day as an endgame.
People who like to craft and sell armor, for instance, or people who want to make money/get better gear for WvW. It’s not as if we’re all in here complaining that we’re not allowed to mindlessly kill the same mobs all day as an endgame.
Case in point of what I said.
So Crib, tell, is it that bad that some of us are willing to go through a drag in order to enter pve or pvp a little better prepared? Do we fool ourselves on what we find enjoyable?
Here is something – if the DR system was in place at launch, and the devs made it clear that it would be a permanent part of the game, would you have purchased the game?
No. Not at all.
I came slightly late to the whole GW2 party anyway and did a lot of watching of videos and advertising, trying to make up my mind.
There was no mention of DR at any point when I was doing research on the game. It was very well hidden. If there were it would have rung large alarm bells as I’ve been in another game that implemented it after release and it destroyed that game. I don’t want it to happen again.
Now I’ve find out DR does exist and doesn’t even have a slight effect on reducing the amount of bots; I’m stopping playing until it’s gone and I would encourage others to do the same.
Your voice almost definitely won’t get heard through a forum, but you can definitely act with your account and not using it to log in with.
That’s the only thing I can do, so I’m going to do it.
I have every right to do this. I think DR is not only folly, but quite a dangerous thing for an MMO to be playing with. They’ll get burned!
(edited by Ronin.8095)
@Cribbage like it or not in this game you NEED people to play. Chasing players away from the game is going to make a sad Cribbage the day you log in and there is no one to play with!
I don’t really see how players logging on to grind helps me. It doesn’t give me anyone to team with in PvP and it doesn’t give allies to kill event bosses with.
Yes, I definitely DO need a decent level of population to play, but they need to be something other than grinding zombies to have a beneficial effect on my game.
Who do you think buys and sells materials? Who do you think trades gold for gems? Who do you think grinds honor badges for hours on end making PVP enjoyable? I could go on and on DR effects PVP and PVE.
I think you are kinda missing the point.
If grinding mats is a necessary part of the game economy, my preference is to change the economy so it is no longer necessary. Not to invite a load of farmers to play.
If grinding honour badges is the only way to get someone to PvP, then my preference is to make PvP be enough fun that people don’t NEED and artificial currency to motivate them.
In other words, make the game fun enough that people will actually want to play it for its own sake.
To this I say amen but truth behold the current system requires a massive grind. Have you ever leveled a craft to 400? The amount of mats you need is mind boggling. Want to travel to 10 zones @80? Get ready to bend over minimum your going to pay 2s30c if they way point is 10ft away and up to 5s if its far away.
Anet does a great job at keeping you broke, the game is very unrewarding. The only way to get ahead is to sit there and grind until your rear end is numb. DR took that away leaving anyone who didn’t get their gear before DR screwed. That’s why there is such a uproar on the forum.
Can we tone it down a little bit with the rhetoric? Crib’s every bit as entitled to his opinion as we are, so maybe it might be more constructive to explain our point of view on this better than to simply cop out and call people fanboys who want the game to die.
Crib, if you read the second half of my post a few minutes ago I think you’ll get a better idea of where we’re coming from. Most of us hate grinding and farming, but feel like the system makes us have to do that more to do the other stuff we like. People who like to craft and sell armor, for instance, or people who want to make money/get better gear for WvW. It’s not as if we’re all in here complaining that we’re not allowed to mindlessly kill the same mobs all day as an endgame.
Yes Rev (and all those who made similar points), I think what people are missing is that I do not think the grind should be necessary or even beneficial.
So at the moment we have a game where grinding is about the only way to achieve some of the valid in game goals (e.g. leveling crafting) but they have put in DR to stop grinding.
My prefernce if for DR to stay but the mats mechanics and numbers to be adjusted so that things can be achieved without needing to grind (e.g. you need 1 large bone for a recipe currently requiring 8, or they just massively increase drop numbers of fine mats).
This is in opposition to the opinion stated here by some others that they are happy with grinding remaining but they want DR to go.
@Cribbage like it or not in this game you NEED people to play. Chasing players away from the game is going to make a sad Cribbage the day you log in and there is no one to play with!
I don’t really see how players logging on to grind helps me. It doesn’t give me anyone to team with in PvP and it doesn’t give allies to kill event bosses with.
Yes, I definitely DO need a decent level of population to play, but they need to be something other than grinding zombies to have a beneficial effect on my game.
Who do you think buys and sells materials? Who do you think trades gold for gems? Who do you think grinds honor badges for hours on end making PVP enjoyable? I could go on and on DR effects PVP and PVE.
I think you are kinda missing the point.
If grinding mats is a necessary part of the game economy, my preference is to change the economy so it is no longer necessary. Not to invite a load of farmers to play.
If grinding honour badges is the only way to get someone to PvP, then my preference is to make PvP be enough fun that people don’t NEED and artificial currency to motivate them.
In other words, make the game fun enough that people will actually want to play it for its own sake.
To this I say amen but truth behold the current system requires a massive grind. Have you ever leveled a craft to 400? The amount of mats you need is mind boggling. Want to travel to 10 zones @80? Get ready to bend over minimum your going to pay 2s30c if they way point is 10ft away and up to 5s if its far away.
Anet does a great job at keeping you broke, the game is very unrewarding. The only way to get ahead is to sit there and grind until your rear end is numb. DR took that away leaving anyone who didn’t get their gear before DR screwed. That’s why there is such a uproar on the forum.
Yes, see my reply to Rev, above. I have to say I essentially agree with your view of the problem, although I am not sure we agree on solution.
Game need more 80 lvl zones. sick and tired kill undeads and get zerged by undeads when gathering><
The problem with that, Crib, is that it would require a rework of basically the whole game. They tossed in DR as an ineffective way to fight bots and ended up hurting the rest of the playerbase instead. Even if they did redo the whole system to eliminate the grind, it would take a long, long time, and in the meantime player numbers will be dropping like flies because of the DR system, and it’s a lot easier to keep someone playing than to get them to come back after they’ve quit. Just look at Darkfall. The game had massive interest at launch, but due to a ton of bugs, balance issues, and hacking problems, it bled down to nothing within a few months and never recovered. A real shame too, because once the launch issues got solved it was an amazing game.
Anyway, to make a short story long… whether you’re for or against DR yourself, the majority of players I’ve talked to(on this and other forums as well as in-game chat, your mileage may vary), absolutely hate this mechanic enough to cause them to stop playing. That’s dangerous.
@Cribbage like it or not in this game you NEED people to play. Chasing players away from the game is going to make a sad Cribbage the day you log in and there is no one to play with!
I don’t really see how players logging on to grind helps me. It doesn’t give me anyone to team with in PvP and it doesn’t give allies to kill event bosses with.
Yes, I definitely DO need a decent level of population to play, but they need to be something other than grinding zombies to have a beneficial effect on my game.
Who do you think buys and sells materials? Who do you think trades gold for gems? Who do you think grinds honor badges for hours on end making PVP enjoyable? I could go on and on DR effects PVP and PVE.
I think you are kinda missing the point.
If grinding mats is a necessary part of the game economy, my preference is to change the economy so it is no longer necessary. Not to invite a load of farmers to play.
If grinding honour badges is the only way to get someone to PvP, then my preference is to make PvP be enough fun that people don’t NEED and artificial currency to motivate them.
In other words, make the game fun enough that people will actually want to play it for its own sake.
To this I say amen but truth behold the current system requires a massive grind. Have you ever leveled a craft to 400? The amount of mats you need is mind boggling. Want to travel to 10 zones @80? Get ready to bend over minimum your going to pay 2s30c if they way point is 10ft away and up to 5s if its far away.
Anet does a great job at keeping you broke, the game is very unrewarding. The only way to get ahead is to sit there and grind until your rear end is numb. DR took that away leaving anyone who didn’t get their gear before DR screwed. That’s why there is such a uproar on the forum.
Yes, see my reply to Rev, above. I have to say I essentially agree with your view of the problem, although I am not sure we agree on solution.
Well I think we can agree that (A) they need to increase rewards in the game or (B) Like you said reduce the amount of materials needed and reduce the travel cost or do away with it entirely. Making what little gold we get worth something.
If you are right, Rev, that DR prevents end game being enjoyable to such an extent that players will leave in droves cos they can’t farm, then I would say it’s irrelevant to me personally. If farming is such an integral part of GW2 that without it the game is not playable, I will be leaving whatever they choose to do with DR. I ain’t coming online to do boring, repetitive tasks. That’s what housework is for.
So for me, the only good outcomes to all this is that either you are wrong and they can take the grind away before the player base evaporates OR that grinding only affects a few things in game and that there are enough other fun things to keep players like myself here.
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