Guild Wars 2

The title says it all really.

At lvl 80, a single teleport to distant area of the world map costs more than you get as a reward for filling out a renown heart.

5 such teleports could buy you an ectoplasm. 1 teleport is the equivalent of a single piece of orichalcum ore.

It’s simply not fun to have to ask myself how much farming I’ll have to make up for later because I’m helping a friend with his personal story quest and there’s a few teleports involved. It’s not fun to have to figure out whether or not I’ll end up losing money if I port to an old area to fill out the renown heart or whether it only makes sense to run. It’s not fun to play teleport-gambling so that when your buddy tells you a dragon is up, you have to be lucky with the drops in order to offset the freaking cost of teleporting to the event.

I understand the game needs gold sinks. I’m not even against the idea of there being a (small) fee for teleporting around the map. But when you have a player wondering whether spending the next 15 minutes of his time in a game will end up hurting him financially just because he’s finished his most recent activity, you’ve gone too far.

Um… you’re not really supposed to do the hearts and attend the events solely for the rewards.

And really, if you start thinking of everything in terms of gain and loss, the game loses pretty much all meaning.

I agree with the OP here, I was against mounts in this game but atm im running everywhere because the waypoint costs are so high. I usually dont port to the other side of the map either when someone calls out that theres a big event going on for that same reason :S. Something is wrong then imo.

I feel like the system works better at lower levels. A port costs like half of an event reward rather than 1.5x more than one at higher levels.

I only port to places I can chop 3 trees to pay for my port.

If ANet were to create a gem store item that gives a permanent 50% (for a lesser version) or 100% (for a greater version) discount on all Waypoint travels, I would BUY IT IN A HEARTBEAT.

OP is just whining. TP costs are fine. I never tp anywhere,a nd ONLY do one heart. So your contention that the tp cost is greater than 1 heart reward is silly.

Do what i do… TP in when you hear them call for an event… after you finish the event, look around for unfinished hearts. If all hearts are already done, look for mining nodes, gathering farms and nodea, trees. find 3 or 4. WALK to them… and ..kill all mobs between 1 node, and the next. Sell any drops. Tadaaaa you have enough for not just the trip there, but the trip back.

I do this all the time. I even get downed from time to time, and somehow…even with expensive ports in and out to the next announced event, paying for Repairs, paying for salvage kits… etc..I somehow still accumulate money.

Am I wealthy? No… But, I don’t even notice the tp expenses. Sorry. If the ONLY thing you do when you tp somewhere is ONE heart, or ONE event… I don’t know what to say.

Nerelith, the point the OP is making is it takes 10-15 min to recoup the cost of a single teleport. I somewhat agree that it’s a bit steep but at the same time…. it makes you reconsider walking (time sink) or porting (money sink). It would be nice if a port 2-3 min of walking away didn’t cost 2-3 silver (in the event that you get killed)

I can understand your point. it takes 10 or 15 minutes to recoup the cost of a single port, but…so what? Teleport costs should be reasonably prohibitive, or else if it is too cheap, then you bypass content. The fact is, that running not only makes more sense from the point of view of saving gold but also, you kill things between point A and point B, which generates drops and xp. You also get to mine, chop, and gather, which generates ingredients. You can attain vistas, and PoI’s which generate xp.. and this is assuming you already did all the hearts between, and if you run across any dynamic events you get the chance to do those as well.

I am sorry. But if someone wishes to cut out all that content by TP ing everywhere, then understand, there will be costs. Both obvious ones, and other unanticipated costs.

I either walk everywhere when i feel like generating income… or TP everywhere when i wish to attain xp. But I understand when i arrive after a tp, i will need to spend 10 to 15 minutes at the other end, to recoup…

TP is fine. Working as intended. OP whines needlessly.

Didn’t say there was a problem with it… was just explaining. I understand the costs are supposed to be prohibitive but I do feel like close ports are a bit on the high side… however, it doesn’t particularly bother me at all.

Just a thought, why would you port to a Location that takes 2 minutes to walk to, when it m,ight take 2 minutes to zone to by teleport if you get a bad ping? Just seems to me sometimes, it takes almost as Long to walk from one place to the wp you want to get to, as it does to TP, and then have to wait looking at the splash screen. Time saved? negligeable… opportunity costs? Ingredients ungathered, mobs not killed, nodes not chopped or mined, PoI’s Not visited, Hearts not completed, Skill points not acquired, xp not attained, gold or drops not looted… may end up being significant.
TP costs in my opinion should remain as they are. They are so low that from my perspective I never notice them.

Why? If you die right near one, it’s happened to me several times. Consider that porting to a point literally 10 feet away will cost about 75% as much as teleporting across the world.

But again I stress… I do not have a problem with the cost

a teleport to a location on the same map costs 1.5s.

A teleport across the ENTIRE game world (cursed shore to frostgourge) costs almost 4s.

If I teleport to a WP on the same map I can just do 1 DE, of which there are many, and I instantly recoup the money lost.

If I teleport across the ENTIRE game world then I just farm some trash loot for 10-15 min (the time it would have taken to walk there anyway) or do the dragon event to make up and profit on the cost.

Teleports are really cheap and easily recouped in a VERY short amount of time. If teleports seem expensive because someone is dying a lot then that player simply needs to re-evaluate the difficulty level they are playing at and readjust.

Nerelith.7360:

OP is just whining. TP costs are fine. I never tp anywhere,a nd ONLY do one heart. So your contention that the tp cost is greater than 1 heart reward is silly.

So if I want to TP somewhere I better be prepared to do more than one heart to recoup my losses? So in other words the reward for clearing one location is no reward at all? Do you really think the cost of a TP should be more expensive than the reward you get for completing the equivalent of what a quest was in gw1?

Do what i do… TP in when you hear them call for an event… after you finish the event, look around for unfinished hearts. If all hearts are already done, look for mining nodes, gathering farms and nodea, trees. find 3 or 4. WALK to them… and ..kill all mobs between 1 node, and the next. Sell any drops. Tadaaaa you have enough for not just the trip there, but the trip back.

Yeah, that’s exactly the problem. Doing all that as a ritual every time I TP isn’t fun. Having to consider my route every time something comes up gets in the way of enjoying the game. It’s probably the main reason why I just can’t be bothered to do the dragons anymore, cuz it’s just a waste of time and money.

I do this all the time. I even get downed from time to time, and somehow…even with expensive ports in and out to the next announced event, paying for Repairs, paying for salvage kits… etc..I somehow still accumulate money.

The cost for repairing armour damaged from one death is still less onerous than the cost of one teleport. The cost for teleporting far away is more prohibitive than the cost of repairing 2 pieces of armour.

Am I wealthy? No… But, I don’t even notice the tp expenses. Sorry. If the ONLY thing you do when you tp somewhere is ONE heart, or ONE event… I don’t know what to say.

You’d be hard pressed not to when you’re trying to save up for your first set of exotic armour/weapons/jewelry.

And no, I don’t typically TP somewhere and just do a heart and then leave. But the point is that when it even becomes possible for the costs associated with travelling around the game becomes your primary concern for having a productive time in an MMO, you’re shooting yourself in the foot as a game company. It really shouldn’t be possible for me to actually suffer a setback with regards to my personal wealth just because I decide to travel somewhere to play with my friends. Especially if it’s a low-lvl area of the game where the materials are cheap on the TP and I’ve already done the renown hearts or PoIs or whatever is offered in the region.

I understand the neccessity for gold sinks, and I can even accept a modest cost for travelling around the world, even though gw1 had no such cost associated with travelling. But when the travel costs become an obstacle for people playing together in an MMO, you’ve gone too far.

So walk.

The WP costs offend me, too. So I walk a lot of places.

Yeah, WP costs are just another of many coin vs. time tradeoffs in the game. You buy from or sell to an existing listing when you’re impatient with the TP, and in so doing you get a worse price than you could by setting your own listing and waiting. You use a waypoint when you’re impatient with walking, and in so doing you spend money instead of making it (which is what would happen if you kill mobs or collect resources while walking). Some people list items directly to the TP from anywhere, even if the price will result in a net loss, because they don’t want to waste time finding a vendor to free up inventory space.

If you think the tradeoff isn’t worth it in this case, don’t use it in this case.

Colonel Kernel.7506:

So walk.

The WP costs offend me, too. So I walk a lot of places.

Do you walk from Cursed Shore to Frostgorge Sound often?

How about AC to CM? Do you walk between different dungeons too?

Hippocampus.8470:

Yeah, WP costs are just another of many coin vs. time tradeoffs in the game. You buy from or sell to an existing listing when you’re impatient with the TP, and in so doing you get a worse price than you could by setting your own listing and waiting. You use a waypoint when you’re impatient with walking, and in so doing you spend money instead of making it (which is what would happen if you kill mobs or collect resources while walking). Some people list items directly to the TP from anywhere, even if the price will result in a net loss, because they don’t want to waste time finding a vendor to free up inventory space.

If you think the tradeoff isn’t worth it in this case, don’t use it in this case.

I’m assuming you’d still use this argument if the teleport costs were 1g each, right? Cuz if not its a bad argument. I’m not saying that there’s no place for a time vs. money trade-off, I’m merely saying that in this case the balance is off. “Don’t use it if you don’t like it” does nothing to repudiate my case.

Some of you seem to think that I’m making this post because I can’t make money. Which is dead wrong. I can, and I do. I have no trouble running around Cursed Shore or Frostgorge Sound and as a general rule I don’t stop to fight mobs that aggro me while I’m running to my destination because I don’t have to. I just keep running and eventually they leave me alone cuz they sure as hell can’t kill me. If I want to mine a node I only have to worry about my health during the process if there’s more than 3 mobs on me at the time. And that’s with my rare quality MF gear on.

This is not about whether or not I can make money, but about whether or not it’s stupid from a game-design point of view to put a mechanic in place which effectively punishes players from moving to new areas and in effect puts a premium in place any time a player wants to meet up with another player. And not just a token “you shouldn’t abuse this feature” kind of premium. A premium where you have to mine 1-4 mithril nodes or find loot of an equivalent nature just to break even when travelling somewhere.

Repairing a set of lv80 exotic armor costs about 10s. Teleing from one side of the world to the other instantly costs about 3-4s. You tell me which is more of a pain in the wallet.

Protip: You can tele to the Mists for free from anywhere and then walk through the LA portal to go to any major city in the world.

I pay 1.6s to repair a single piece. 10s might be the cost for repairing a full set of armour. That’s the same as about 10 teleports which would cost 10-40s. And frankly if you die as often as you teleport I would think you need to address your play style.

Secondly how is teleporting to the mists a “pro” tip? You just added 3 loading screens to my travel time and I’d still pay at LEAST 1s to go somewhere.

Xarog.3172:

Colonel Kernel.7506:

So walk.

The WP costs offend me, too. So I walk a lot of places.

Do you walk from Cursed Shore to Frostgorge Sound often?

How about AC to CM? Do you walk between different dungeons too?

Well the more nuanced suggestion would be to walk from whichever capital city is closest, since you can get to those for free from anywhere. In which case, yes, I personally tend to do exactly that.

I’m assuming you’d still use this argument if the teleport costs were 1g each, right? Cuz if not its a bad argument. I’m not saying that there’s no place for a time vs. money trade-off, I’m merely saying that in this case the balance is off. “Don’t use it if you don’t like it” does nothing to repudiate my case.

Nor does the fact that you think current prices are too high do anything to support the claim that they are in fact too high, because whatever they cost, some people with think they’re too high.

If ANet discovers that WP costs are having an adverse effect on the economy or player base as a whole, they’ll do something about it I’m sure. But the mere presence of some people complaining does not imply such an effect exists.

WPs in cities should be free to use, wherever you are. Travel to cities is already free using GoToMists/Portals and so the cost of the WPs there merely adds an unnecessary layer of loadtime and bandwidth usage.

I feel that WP costs within the map you’re already on, particularly the nearest ones, should be much lower than they are, though travel costs to other maps should remain the same.

Hippocampus.8470:

I’m assuming you’d still use this argument if the teleport costs were 1g each, right? Cuz if not its a bad argument. I’m not saying that there’s no place for a time vs. money trade-off, I’m merely saying that in this case the balance is off. “Don’t use it if you don’t like it” does nothing to repudiate my case.

Nor does the fact that you think current prices are too high do anything to support the claim that they are in fact too high, because whatever they cost, some people with think they’re too high.

I didn’t merely say they were too high. I gave examples of situations and comparisons and explained that the above facts resulted in a situation where the game became un-fun.

I’ll give you another, more practical, example though. If you spend the day playing and teleport 10 times to far-away maps, you pretty much have to spend a solid half-hour grinding gold to make up for the cost. I dunno about you, but I really loathe the idea of having to do something boring and repetitive for half an hour every day that I get to play just to break even. It kills my motivation to log in at all. I want to roam around and adventure and spend time with friends and kill stuff without constantly trying to play mental arithmatic as to whether I’m spending my time effeciently or whether I’m going to end up being sorry about the day I “wasted” later.

On the other hand, you’re effectively saying “nuh-uh” without providing any substanciating evidence for your views.

If ANet discovers that WP costs are having an adverse effect on the economy or player base as a whole, they’ll do something about it I’m sure. But the mere presence of some people complaining does not imply such an effect exists.

Except that in this case the complaint itself was backed up with concrete examples and comparisons, none of which you’ve actually gone so far as to dispute the accuracy of. And all I’m saying is that if you really think the complaints are that unfounded, surely it would be easy to address those examples and point out why they’re bad/wrong?

The tp costs are negligeable. The armor repair is almost Non-existant. Anyone complaining is complaining needlessly. Actually whining.

Then again, my first MMO was eq1. Back then, if we wanted a Teleport anywhere, we had to connect with one of the player classes that could teleport. And then negotiate a price, that could range anywhere from 5 platinum to 100 platinum depending on where it was. Then we had to if we could not do it ourselves negotiate with a player that could do so… have him Bind us to a location in a safe location, think of it as having ONE WP in the game, that we had to pay someone to create for us.

If we died, we lost XP… to recover that xp, sometimes took HOURS…. Not 10 or 15 minutes. And to recover our items that were on the body, meant going back to it… without armor or weapons. so sometimes we died a few times… with the potential of losing levels…. and abilities acquired in the level we lost.

So here in gw2, if you die, it means you pay an almost non-existant repair fee, and an almost non-existant tp cost that can be recovered in 15 minutes of gameplay. you do not lose xp, and you do not lose levels.

This is easy peasy. Anyone complaining about this is spoiled and entitled. Part of the generation that wants everything handed to them on a silver platter with a Nice bow tied to it.

I know this is harsh, but this is true. the game is 1000’s of times easier on us than many other MMO’s… and yet..people complain." I died… I had to pay for a Port…I had to pay for repairs..and Now…I need to kill a few things, or loot some mobs, or find a few trees to chop..or nodes to mine… wahhh wahhhh…"

Seriously. This game is going easy on us.

HAHAHA Eq1 man those were they days.. yea this aint nothing compaired to that but that game had to be the funnest game until sony took it over they lead it right down the drain anyways…. just ask your self am i going to acomplish anything if i take the tp.. if you are chances are you made it worth it.. if your doing it for fun then quit it will drain your money i walk acrost maps and have all waypoints found now when skipping more then 1 zone apart i will port but if you want a free tp join WVW take the asura gate back to lions arch bam saved your self silver for a few seconds of loading screans

Xarog.3172:

I pay 1.6s to repair a single piece. 10s might be the cost for repairing a full set of armour. That’s the same as about 10 teleports which would cost 10-40s. And frankly if you die as often as you teleport I would think you need to address your play style.

Secondly how is teleporting to the mists a “pro” tip? You just added 3 loading screens to my travel time and I’d still pay at LEAST 1s to go somewhere.

Sorry but I do things other than tele to a zone to sit afk. Why do you tele so much and then complain about half an hour of farming to pay for it? Do you seriously think sitting through a few loading screens for free travel is detrimental to your play? I think you are just being lazy and you should probably address your play style.

Nerelith.7360:

This is easy peasy. Anyone complaining about this is spoiled and entitled. Part of the generation that wants everything handed to them on a silver platter with a Nice bow tied to it.

Hmm. Wanting to enjoy a game I paid to play. Imagine that. Guess I must be crazy.

I know this is harsh, but this is true. the game is 1000’s of times easier on us than many other MMO’s… and yet..people complain." I died… I had to pay for a Port…I had to pay for repairs..and Now…I need to kill a few things, or loot some mobs, or find a few trees to chop..or nodes to mine… wahhh wahhhh…"

Seriously. This game is going easy on us.

No one said it wasn’t possible to overcome the teleporting costs. But the fact that it discourages non-profitable behaviour like socialising with other players and doing things with them when there is no clear monetary gain to be had is downright stupid.

The fact that when a friend asks me to help them with a vista or a mission and I instantly sit back and ask myself reflexively, “how much is this going to cost me?” is the real issue here. I want to have fun in a game with my friends without constantly counting the pennies or worrying about how much I’m hurting my gold reserves every time I do something which isn’t actively generating wealth.

Xarog.3172:

Nerelith.7360:

This is easy peasy. Anyone complaining about this is spoiled and entitled. Part of the generation that wants everything handed to them on a silver platter with a Nice bow tied to it.

Hmm. Wanting to enjoy a game I paid to play. Imagine that. Guess I must be crazy.

I know this is harsh, but this is true. the game is 1000’s of times easier on us than many other MMO’s… and yet..people complain." I died… I had to pay for a Port…I had to pay for repairs..and Now…I need to kill a few things, or loot some mobs, or find a few trees to chop..or nodes to mine… wahhh wahhhh…"

Seriously. This game is going easy on us.

No one said it wasn’t possible to overcome the teleporting costs. But the fact that it discourages non-profitable behaviour like socialising with other players and doing things with them when there is no clear monetary gain to be had is downright stupid.

The fact that when a friend asks me to help them with a vista or a mission and I instantly sit back and ask myself reflexively, “how much is this going to cost me?” is the real issue here. I want to have fun in a game with my friends without constantly counting the pennies or worrying about how much I’m hurting my gold reserves every time I do something which isn’t actively generating wealth.

Here is your problem. You want to number crunch and run the game through a spreadsheet Looking only for profit. Your friends asks for help, what Kind of friend are you? you are basically asking yourself " what’s in it for me to help my friend?"

I never ask myself " How much will it cost me to help my friend?" I never " count the pennies." I am glad my friends don’t ask themselves." How much will it cost me .. what’s in it for me?" they just say " sure, will be fun to play with you!!!" then again, I answer with similar enthusiasm. I guess I am glad My friends are not like you.

There is No " non-profiteable behavior." there is just you feeling entitled to travel at minimal costs. 15 minutes of chopping trees or killing mobs, to pay for a Port is not something to be whining about.

By the way you are wrong. The game is fine, it DOES encourage players to group together even when there is no profit to be had. it’s called " having fun together." The game is not the issue. the issue is PBKaC.

Secondly… the way you pay for that teleport is by..ummm..playing the game. When you chop down a tree, you are playing the game. When you mine a node, you are playing the game. When you kill a Mob , you are playing the game.

Your issue is you want ALL that behavior to go straight to the Black on the Bottom line.

As I said..spoiled and entitled.

PS: The way I socialize in Gw2 is by taking on content with friends. I Join them… and they join me, and we group. The cost of the port is nothing because the ultimate result is time spent with friends, helping them progress, and them helping me progress. Compared to that… chopping down a few trees is a price well payed.

Xarog.3172:

Nerelith.7360:

This is easy peasy. Anyone complaining about this is spoiled and entitled. Part of the generation that wants everything handed to them on a silver platter with a Nice bow tied to it.

Hmm. Wanting to enjoy a game I paid to play. Imagine that. Guess I must be crazy.

I know this is harsh, but this is true. the game is 1000’s of times easier on us than many other MMO’s… and yet..people complain." I died… I had to pay for a Port…I had to pay for repairs..and Now…I need to kill a few things, or loot some mobs, or find a few trees to chop..or nodes to mine… wahhh wahhhh…"

Seriously. This game is going easy on us.

No one said it wasn’t possible to overcome the teleporting costs. But the fact that it discourages non-profitable behaviour like socialising with other players and doing things with them when there is no clear monetary gain to be had is downright stupid.

The fact that when a friend asks me to help them with a vista or a mission and I instantly sit back and ask myself reflexively, “how much is this going to cost me?” is the real issue here. I want to have fun in a game with my friends without constantly counting the pennies or worrying about how much I’m hurting my gold reserves every time I do something which isn’t actively generating wealth.

Every cost takes time to recoup. I don’t need to address your examples individually or dispute their accuracy, because I can simply declare that in my personal opinion, having to kill a handful of mobs after you teleport is not an undue burden. Especially since walking around provides you with plenty of mobs trying to kill you, who you have to kill first.

If it takes 15 minutes to recoup teleport costs, and people spend an average of 30 minutes playing per waypoint they use (which I think is likely much shorter than the actual amount of time), then the system is effectively slowing down earnings without stopping or reversing them. If it took an hour to recoup costs but people were on average spending only the same 30 minutes between uses, then I agree there would be a problem.

So yes, you did pretty much merely say that the costs were too high, because you simply declared that this amount of time to earn back those costs was too much, without providing any real evidence for that. Sure, you translated money to time, but that’s not the same as an argument for why it’s “too much” in either currency.

Here is your problem. You want to number crunch and run the game through a spreadsheet Looking only for profit. Your friends asks for help, what Kind of friend are you? you are basically asking yourself " what’s in it for me to help my friend?"

I guess then that when your buddy asks you to buy him a car you say yes right away? Oh you don’t? What kind of friend are you? :/

I never ask myself " How much will it cost me to help my friend?" I never " count the pennies. I am glad my friends don’t ask thremselves." How much will it cost me .. what’s in it for me?" they just say " sure, will be fun to play with you!!!" then again, I answer with similar enthusiasm. I guess I am glad My friends are not like you.

Actually it’s more that, “Hey, lets go grind for half an hour so we can spend the day doing random stuff” doesn’t make for a great way to convince someone to log in and play GW2.

There is No " non-profiteable behavior." there is just you feeling entitled to travel at minimal costs. 15 minutes of chopping trees or killing mobs, to pay for a Port is not something to be whining about.

If you spend time playing the game and finish your play time with less assets than what you started with, then by definition your venture was not profitable. The act of undertaking that venture can thus be defined as “non-profitable behaviour”. QED

Secondly, an MMO by its very nature is a time sink. Time is what you invest and you get progress in return. Sometimes this can be a grind, other times not. Whenever you get to a point where spending time in a game may or may not yield progress, the balance is off, end of story. The degree to which a lvl 80 player is charged for teleporting across the map makes this not merely possible, but likely.

It is certainly not in keeping with the following philosophy :

“Guild Wars 2 is a game about freedom. We want you to be able to explore the world and engage in a huge variety of activities, focusing on whatever best suits your tastes” – Jon Peters, ArenaNet Game Designer

Secondly… the way you pay for that teleport is by..ummm..playing the game. When you chop down a tree, you are playing the game. When you mine a node, you are playing the game. When you kill a Mob , you are playing the game.

Your issue is you want ALL that behavior to go straight to the Black on the Bottom line.

As I said..spoiled and entitled.

No, you pay for that teleport by playing in a certain way. I don’t particularly care that all activities should help the bottom line, but it bloody well should outweigh overhead costs of actually doing the activity in the first place. Otherwise I’m just wasting my time.

And I’m sorry if you feel it is unreasonable for me to actually enjoy the sense of achievement that I get from building my character up. I’m sorry if you think it’s unreasonable to have a goal such as getting a full set of exotic jewelry and then feeling frustrated when not playing in a gold attaining way actually sets me back on that goal because I stopped to smell the roses. If this all constitutes being “spoiled”, well, mea culpa. But it is what I look for in a game and if I’m not getting my money’s worth I’ll move onto another game where the RL cost matches what I consider to be “fun”.

PS: the way I socialize in Gw2 is by taking on content with friends. I Join them… and they join me, and we group. The cost of thre port is nothing because then ultimate result is time spent with friends, helping them progress, and them helping me progress. Compared to that… chopping down a few trees is a price well payed.

Good for you I guess. Until recently I was playing an MMO with a monthly fee and raiding with my friends 3 nights a week for 3 hours at a time. Downtime as such would be spent grouping up for dungeons or pvp or helping with quests or instant adventures or whatever. No game is without its shortcomings but that game certainly didn’t make you gamble as to whether your time spent would be to the benefit or detriment of your account. I decided to give gw2 a try and to meet up with some old gw1 friends. But frankly if the game is going to deplete my gold via attrition just because I’m not playing “profitably” (as defined above) I’d rather go back to paying a monthly fee to enjoy a game which does not have this aspect involved. And then I can go back to gaming with friends and stopping to help them or smell the roses without having this nagging thought in the back of my head that I’m actually compromising my own character development.

The better alternative would be to implement the game mechanics so that you aren’t forced to play around the gold-sinks in the game and that their presence does not interfere with the flow of the game itself.

Ces’t la vie. Not all games are for all players. I just do not understand this " Playing and ending up with less money than i started with." I TP from one side of a zone to another. I hear that some world boss is up, I tp to that… Running from the WP to the Boss, on average, i pass 8 to 10 mobs that attack me for walking close to them… 3 or 4 trees, 2 mining nodes, 3 plants to gather. That is all before I even get there. I tackle the boss, and maybe i get downed a couple of times…if i am unlucky. after the boss dies, I run to a town to repair… and .. amazing… even before i sell merch or TP post the drops off the boss, and after I repair the armor..I already have a profit.

What I cannot understand is, How you can end up losing money. Unless you TP EVERYWHERE, ignore ALL Mobs, Ignore ALL Nodes… and then do ONE heart.

Otherwise you cannot avoid having gold accumulate.

The only other option that comes to My mind is, that when you do fight you spend so much time being downed that repair costs are eating up all your reserves.

Not trying to be mean or nasty or rude, but… I am NOT an awesome player. I have played every class. And yet… I have never ended up with LESS gold than i started with, and I have been downed on occasion, so even after paying for repairs, and tp’s i still have a profit.

Maybe you can explain why you always end up losing money? because I just cannot understand it.

PS: one other possibility has come to mind, every 5 levels you are upgrading your armor and weapons, at a prohibitive cost. I personally do not see any need to upgrade every 5 levels. neither by crafting nor purchasing. fact I remember once I forgot to upgrade my armor, Just a few pieces from drops..then started seeing myself taking a Lot of damage, and then i noticed my armor was 13 levels under my level…. so i upgraded to the 5 level point under my level which was good enough for PvE… Maybe you need to evaluate if you are over upgrading your armor too frequently…

Hippocampus.8470:

Every cost takes time to recoup. I don’t need to address your examples individually or dispute their accuracy, because I can simply declare that in my personal opinion, having to kill a handful of mobs after you teleport is not an undue burden. Especially since walking around provides you with plenty of mobs trying to kill you, who you have to kill first.

I guess if you wanna play Teleport Economics then you have a fair point. But like I said above, I do not like catering my gaming style around gold sinks. If the sinks are so prohibitive that they change the way I play the game, something is wrong. And you can see some pretty definitive examples of that in the beginning of the thread. Comments like :

“I only port to places I can chop 3 trees to pay for my port.”

“I agree with the OP here, I was against mounts in this game but atm im running everywhere because the waypoint costs are so high. I usually dont port to the other side of the map either when someone calls out that theres a big event going on for that same reason :S. Something is wrong then imo.”

If it takes 15 minutes to recoup teleport costs, and people spend an average of 30 minutes playing per waypoint they use (which I think is likely much shorter than the actual amount of time), then the system is effectively slowing down earnings without stopping or reversing them. If it took an hour to recoup costs but people were on average spending only the same 30 minutes between uses, then I agree there would be a problem.

What about time spent moving to vistas to get map completion or teleporting to a low lvl area to help a friend? Your calculation only makes sense if people are teleporting to farm. But they aren’t, and frankly if you’re actively trying to grind then there’s very little porting involved in the first place (until you hit DR I guess).

So yes, you did pretty much merely say that the costs were too high, because you simply declared that this amount of time to earn back those costs was too much, without providing any real evidence for that. Sure, you translated money to time, but that’s not the same as an argument for why it’s “too much” in either currency.

The evidence is in the fact that people are avoiding aspects of the game such as events purely because of the prohibitiveness of a gold sink. You might try to ignore it, but that alone doesn’t make it go away. :p

Xarog.3172:

Hippocampus.8470:

Every cost takes time to recoup. I don’t need to address your examples individually or dispute their accuracy, because I can simply declare that in my personal opinion, having to kill a handful of mobs after you teleport is not an undue burden. Especially since walking around provides you with plenty of mobs trying to kill you, who you have to kill first.

I guess if you wanna play Teleport Economics then you have a fair point. But like I said above, I do not like catering my gaming style around gold sinks. If the sinks are so prohibitive that they change the way I play the game, something is wrong. And you can see some pretty definitive examples of that in the beginning of the thread. Comments like :

“I only port to places I can chop 3 trees to pay for my port.”

“I agree with the OP here, I was against mounts in this game but atm im running everywhere because the waypoint costs are so high. I usually dont port to the other side of the map either when someone calls out that theres a big event going on for that same reason :S. Something is wrong then imo.”

If it takes 15 minutes to recoup teleport costs, and people spend an average of 30 minutes playing per waypoint they use (which I think is likely much shorter than the actual amount of time), then the system is effectively slowing down earnings without stopping or reversing them. If it took an hour to recoup costs but people were on average spending only the same 30 minutes between uses, then I agree there would be a problem.

What about time spent moving to vistas to get map completion or teleporting to a low lvl area to help a friend? Your calculation only makes sense if people are teleporting to farm. But they aren’t, and frankly if you’re actively trying to grind then there’s very little porting involved in the first place (until you hit DR I guess).

So yes, you did pretty much merely say that the costs were too high, because you simply declared that this amount of time to earn back those costs was too much, without providing any real evidence for that. Sure, you translated money to time, but that’s not the same as an argument for why it’s “too much” in either currency.

The evidence is in the fact that people are avoiding aspects of the game such as events purely because of the prohibitiveness of a gold sink. You might try to ignore it, but that alone doesn’t make it go away. :p

Even when ALL i do is teleport to help a friend on a Lower level zone… even if i teleport to queensdale where I have already completed the map. If i kill the stuff between the WP, and My friend. I pass Mobs trying to Kill me. I pass nodes to mine, trees to chop, food to gather. maybe I run into a dyunamic event maybe I don’t. i get to where my friend is… and i help. and I STILL end up with more money than i started with.

So far each time I need a new manual I always have the money for it a level or 2 before I need it. And as I said, i do not focus or revolve my gameplay around the time sinks as you suggest. You can pay for TP costs Just by " playing the game".

You do not have to be mindful of the pennies. All I can Imagine is, you are not checking your mail for quest rewards, or going to the TP guy to collect money from sales. because … anybody should be able to make a profit just by playing the game. Unless you are doing something wrong.

I think you may have to simply re-evaluate your playstyle.

You also said someone " only tp’s to a place where I can chop down 3 trees." and say it is coercing how he plays. I think that was intended as humor, because No matter where you land, there will be 3 trees within 2 minutes walk of the wp. and at least a mining node, some food, along with a couple of mobs.

basically it was a Humorous way to say " I TP everywhere, but I make sure to chop down a few trees to cover transport expenses. "

I realize you have it in your head that the game is the problem. I think that the game is fine. I can play it well, NOT revolve my game around avoiding or dealing with time sinks, and still make a profit. I do think you are doing something wrong.

This game is not that other game you came from, and as I said before, not all games are made for all players. it is Possible Gw2 is not the game for you, whilst the other is. I do hope you figure out where you are messing up, so you can enjoy the game, but if you cannot, i wish you the best of luck in your MMO gaming.

Nerelith.7360:

Ces’t la vie. Not all games are for all players. I just do not understand this " Playing and ending up with less money than i started with." I TP from one side of a zone to another. I hear that some world boss is up, I tp to that… Running from the WP to the Boss, on average, i pass 8 to 10 mobs that attack me for walking close to them… 3 or 4 trees, 2 mining nodes, 3 plants to gather. That is all before I even get there. I tackle the boss, and maybe i get downed a couple of times…if i am unlucky. after the boss dies, I run to a town to repair… and .. amazing… even before i sell merch or TP post the drops off the boss, and after I repair the armor..I already have a profit.

Have you tried that in a sub-lvl 80 area? It won’t work out the same, especially not if you’re using orichalcum tools to harvest low lvl shrubs. :P

What I cannot understand is, How you can end up losing money. Unless you TP EVERYWHERE, ignore ALL Mobs, Ignore ALL Nodes… and then do ONE heart.

The only behaviour I did which actually resembles this was when I decided to collect all the karma cooking ingredients. The teleports alone ended up costing me nearly 1g. Just to get a couple of mats.

Otherwise you cannot avoid having gold accumulate.

Except quite a few people have posted saying they experience the gold sink differently.

The only other option that comes to My mind is, that when you do fight you spend so much time being downed that repair costs are eating up all your reserves.

If I die 3 times in a day of playing its a lot.

Not trying to be mean or nasty or rude, but… I am NOT an awesome player. I have played every class. And yet… I have never ended up with LESS gold than i started with, and I have been downed on occasion, so even after paying for repairs, and tp’s i still have a profit.

Go to an area that’s, say, lvl 35 as a lvl 80 char. Time how long it takes you to earn back the 3-4S the TP cost you.

Maybe you can explain why you always end up losing money? because I just cannot understand it.

I don’t lose money, I’ve already said so multiple times. But it also means that I change the way I usually play. And it irks me that if I, say, teleport to 3 difficult vistas to show a friend where the path is, that I’ve already cost myself so much that I need to find 6 random masterwork drops or a rare drop just to offset the cost. I know the game needs goldsinks but the cost of the teleporting one is so heavy that its affecting how I interact with friends while playing the game, and that’s just not cool.

Xarog.3172:

Nerelith.7360:

Ces’t la vie. Not all games are for all players. I just do not understand this " Playing and ending up with less money than i started with." I TP from one side of a zone to another. I hear that some world boss is up, I tp to that… Running from the WP to the Boss, on average, i pass 8 to 10 mobs that attack me for walking close to them… 3 or 4 trees, 2 mining nodes, 3 plants to gather. That is all before I even get there. I tackle the boss, and maybe i get downed a couple of times…if i am unlucky. after the boss dies, I run to a town to repair… and .. amazing… even before i sell merch or TP post the drops off the boss, and after I repair the armor..I already have a profit.

Have you tried that in a sub-lvl 80 area? It won’t work out the same, especially not if you’re using orichalcum tools to harvest low lvl shrubs. :P

What I cannot understand is, How you can end up losing money. Unless you TP EVERYWHERE, ignore ALL Mobs, Ignore ALL Nodes… and then do ONE heart.

The only behaviour I did which actually resembles this was when I decided to collect all the karma cooking ingredients. The teleports alone ended up costing me nearly 1g. Just to get a couple of mats.

Otherwise you cannot avoid having gold accumulate.

Except quite a few people have posted saying they experience the gold sink differently.

The only other option that comes to My mind is, that when you do fight you spend so much time being downed that repair costs are eating up all your reserves.

If I die 3 times in a day of playing its a lot.

Not trying to be mean or nasty or rude, but… I am NOT an awesome player. I have played every class. And yet… I have never ended up with LESS gold than i started with, and I have been downed on occasion, so even after paying for repairs, and tp’s i still have a profit.

Go to an area that’s, say, lvl 35 as a lvl 80 char. Time how long it takes you to earn back the 3-4S the TP cost you.

Maybe you can explain why you always end up losing money? because I just cannot understand it.

I don’t lose money, I’ve already said so multiple times. But it also means that I change the way I usually play. And it irks me that if I, say, teleport to 3 difficult vistas to show a friend where the path is, that I’ve already cost myself so much that I need to find 6 random masterwork drops or a rare drop just to offset the cost. I know the game needs goldsinks but the cost of the teleporting one is so heavy that its affecting how I interact with friends while playing the game, and that’s just not cool.

The only thing I can imagine that might deal with this when you are in a Much lower level zone is, to change the amount paid, to accomodate the zone instead of the level of the player. if Mobs are dropping 10 copper worth of mats, it doesn’t make sense to charge multi silvers worth of tp costs.

Now i understand your concern. My characters are only level 35 tops. So going all the way to queensdale and teleporting around is not something i experience as you do.

Maybe you have a point that tp costs might need a little tweaking, because the game’s philosophy is, that you should be able to play a level 80, in a level 15 zone, and have the experience be a good one. If you die in a level 15 zone… which is possible… and then have to pay multiple silvers to get to the tp… all for a few coppers per drop.. i can see how that might be prohibitive.

Nerelith.7360:

Now i understand your concern. My characters are only level 35 tops. So going all the way to queensdale and teleporting around is not something i experience as you do.

As has been stated, at lower levels the system is great. I use WPs constantly on my 30 mes. Get a character to 80 and then see if you still feel the same way or if you start making the decision to walk places rather than paying 1s+ to port 20 feet.

Xarog.3172:

Have you tried that in a sub-lvl 80 area? It won’t work out the same, especially not if you’re using orichalcum tools to harvest low lvl shrubs. :P

…

Go to an area that’s, say, lvl 35 as a lvl 80 char. Time how long it takes you to earn back the 3-4S the TP cost you.

…

I don’t lose money, I’ve already said so multiple times. But it also means that I change the way I usually play. And it irks me that if I, say, teleport to 3 difficult vistas to show a friend where the path is, that I’ve already cost myself so much that I need to find 6 random masterwork drops or a rare drop just to offset the cost. I know the game needs goldsinks but the cost of the teleporting one is so heavy that its affecting how I interact with friends while playing the game, and that’s just not cool.

I have a level 76 character, and I still don’t feel any long-term financial hurt waypointing to lowbie areas. I don’t harvest stuff there with mithril or ori tools, for one thing, because that would be stupid. But if you carry around steel tools or lower it can still be worth it to mine/chop/gather, and mobs still occasionally drop higher-level stuff if you’re higher level in a low area.

The fundamental point still remains, though, that helping out a friend at a financial loss doesn’t necessarily mean you actually lost anything of real value, since presumably it is valuable to you to help out your friends. So even if you do tend to lose money WPing to low areas to help folks, as long as you also occasionally do normal game-playing activities in high-level areas, you’ll still come out ahead by enough that you don’t have to worry about the “profitability” of every trip you take to play with your friends.

Which brings us back to the claim made earlier, that perhaps your gameplay style needs to be reevaluated more than ANet’s goldsink policies.

the only thing i might change about it is make the zones charge lvl appropriate of course orr being the highest and 1-15 zones being the lowest that way you pay no more then what your friend does but in the end there is no monthly fee so they off set that with money sinks and you may not buy money from the gem store but others do cause of such money sinks an they just dont want to take the time farming money or playing the tp but need a way to fill the money sinks either way its good that its there but like i said if your paying the same as those lvl toons i could understand that and that would help you help your friends i guess but i spent 6silver just to escort one of my guildies threw the straits so he could make it to the zerg and didnt think twice of it cause in reality 6silver isnt nothing

I have a level 76 character, and I still don’t feel any long-term financial hurt waypointing to lowbie areas. I don’t harvest stuff there with mithril or ori tools, for one thing, because that would be stupid. But if you carry around steel tools or lower it can still be worth it to mine/chop/gather, and mobs still occasionally drop higher-level stuff if you’re higher level in a low area.

So then it is reasonable to assume that you don’t actually gain anything by going to those areas, correct?

The fundamental point still remains, though, that helping out a friend at a financial loss doesn’t necessarily mean you actually lost anything of real value, since presumably it is valuable to you to help out your friends. So even if you do tend to lose money WPing to low areas to help folks, as long as you also occasionally do normal game-playing activities in high-level areas, you’ll still come out ahead by enough that you don’t have to worry about the “profitability” of every trip you take to play with your friends.

And if I didn’t still need, say, 10 gold for a set of exotic jewelry, another 10 gold or so for exotic weapons, 10 gold per top lvl bag (5 iirc) and so forth you might have a point.

I don’t have a problem with taking a break from being “productive” in a game in order game with some friends. The issue comes in that spending time with them is actually hurting my long-term goals and that I would end up further ahead if I hadn’t logged in at all.

Which brings us back to the claim made earlier, that perhaps your gameplay style needs to be reevaluated more than ANet’s goldsink policies.

No.

As I said I’m not losing gold. I’m playing “profitably”. It doesn’t mean that I enjoy it. And if I’m not enjoying it wtf is the point of playing the game? It’s not like Anet doesn’t have other gold sinks. For goodness sake, just look at the mystic forge or the gem/crystal trades or the Trading Post in general. Those are MASSIVE gold sinks, far bigger than the teleporting sink; note also that I’m not complaining about them. Fine-tuning the teleport cost which many people feel to be excessive at lvl 80 will in no way destabilise the economy but it will make the game more enjoyable without having to enter power-gaming mode just to fund your travels across Tyria.

Xarog.3172:

I have a level 76 character, and I still don’t feel any long-term financial hurt waypointing to lowbie areas. I don’t harvest stuff there with mithril or ori tools, for one thing, because that would be stupid. But if you carry around steel tools or lower it can still be worth it to mine/chop/gather, and mobs still occasionally drop higher-level stuff if you’re higher level in a low area.

So then it is reasonable to assume that you don’t actually gain anything by going to those areas, correct?

There are benefits besides accruing money, and developing your character. There is the pleasure of spending time with friends, and enjoying their company. The pleasure of assisting someone else get closer to their own goals. So to answer your question. Yes, he DOES gain something by going to those areas. it is simply that what he gains is not easilly counted in the profit and loss columns of finance, or the stat numbers associated with levelling or improving gear.

The fundamental point still remains, though, that helping out a friend at a financial loss doesn’t necessarily mean you actually lost anything of real value, since presumably it is valuable to you to help out your friends. So even if you do tend to lose money WPing to low areas to help folks, as long as you also occasionally do normal game-playing activities in high-level areas, you’ll still come out ahead by enough that you don’t have to worry about the “profitability” of every trip you take to play with your friends.

And if I didn’t still need, say, 10 gold for a set of exotic jewelry, another 10 gold or so for exotic weapons, 10 gold per top lvl bag (5 iirc) and so forth you might have a point.

I don’t have a problem with taking a break from being “productive” in a game in order game with some friends. The issue comes in that spending time with them is actually hurting my long-term goals and that I would end up further ahead if I hadn’t logged in at all.

Yes, it is obvious that helping your friends comes at a cost, and that cost is, it slows down your own developement. I have to wonder though. I am getting the impression that you do not see this as a " shared" journey. But More of YOUR journey. and people either help you reach your goals…or hinder you from reaching your goals. Your so-called friends, by asking for your help are prople you see as holding you back, you " struggle" when they ask for your help. You " count the pennies." lost.

Maybe an MMO is not for you? It feels from hat you are saying that your " friends" are mearly tools you use to get your own character improved, and you only devote time to assisting them, as long as it does not slow you down too Much, and as long as their friendship is ultimately profitable to you.

Which brings us back to the claim made earlier, that perhaps your gameplay style needs to be reevaluated more than ANet’s goldsink policies.

No.

As I said I’m not losing gold. I’m playing “profitably”. It doesn’t mean that I enjoy it. And if I’m not enjoying it wtf is the point of playing the game?

Not all is about “profit, and improvement.” There is the whole idea of socializing with friends, and the pleasure of helping others, sometimes not just with NO benefit to yourself, but at a cost. yes, it seems to me this idea is foreign to you.

It’s not like Anet doesn’t have other gold sinks. For goodness sake, just look at the mystic forge or the gem/crystal trades or the Trading Post in general. Those are MASSIVE gold sinks, far bigger than the teleporting sink; note also that I’m not complaining about them. Fine-tuning the teleport cost which many people feel to be excessive at lvl 80 will in no way destabilise the economy but it will make the game more enjoyable without having to enter power-gaming mode just to fund your travels across Tyria.

It seems to me that your concept of " friends" is different from mine at least. Maybe you don’t have to re-evaluate your gamestyle. You may have to re-evaluate how you view other people.

People are not tools and hindrances to your progress.

You should be honest with your friends. Tell them." No, I am not going to help you find that vista, it costs me money to get to you, it costs me time to carry you needlessly to where you are going. Time I could use more profitably levelling my own character, and meeting my own goals."

One has to wonder though…How long will you have friends? It is the honest thing to do. People should know you view them as tools. People should know that when they ask for your help, you count the pennies.

I love how the one person arguing adamantly against this doesn’t even have an 80 yet with which to experience the problem.

Awesome.6120:

I love how the one person arguing adamantly against this doesn’t even have an 80 yet with which to experience the problem.

The funny part is, why I don’t have a level 80. I enjoy playing many alts, and i derive pleasure from spending time with friends. For me, this game is about doing fun things with friends, not about Hitting level 80.

I do like the way you totally ignore my main point. As if I need to be level 80, to suddenly become the kind of person that views people as tools. That being level 80 means i will suddenly, upon hitting that level, ONLY do things thatn help me accrue wealth and improve my character.

Just to comment. I used to play " another game, that will remain nameless." and while it took me forever to hit the level cap..I did so with a few of my alts. And even THEN if a friend needed my help, I would either join her and run her through dungeons at no benefit to Myself…or " waste my time." by logging on a low level alt, i created for the SOLE purpose of keeping her company.

This mentality that " if it hinders me, it is bad." can be insidious. It can creep into how you view others.

I am sorry if what I am saying is not being greeted with enthusiasm, but… a game is no excuse to treat people like tools, and me NOT being 80, does not make my opinion less relevant, because when i eventually hit 80, it will not change.

Then again, this isn’t about situational ethics, but a matter of character. It’s about who I am. Someone that helps others even if it costs me something because I enjoy helping. That did not change when I hit level cap m on " that other game." that will not change here.

Xarog you are just cheap.

I’m not a super market guru, I TP places and I managed to get TWO yes TWO sets of FULL exotic gear (power set and condition set) by TP’ing where I need to go.

My average play time is 2-3 hours per night..and over half of those are spent helping out my guildies (which I ALSO TP to.)

Suck it up and learn to make money.

Nerelith.7360:

and me NOT being 80, does not make my opinion less relevant

It does because the entire point of this thread is to talk about WP costs at 80. Just because you are off on some tangent doesn’t change this.

Teleport costs, as a gold sink, are incredibly regressive. Depending on your mode of play and income, they could be a huge chunk of your income or essentially negligible.

I personally massively dislike the teleport costs, as they discourage the exploration and social aspects of the game – where the tax is at its highest, relatively – while encouraging teleports for power farming.

Personally, if I was designing their system, I would not eliminate the teleport tax entirely, but I would scale it dynamically with frequency of teleporter use, such that it would be, say, double what it currently is immediately after porting, scaling down to zero over the course of 15-20 minutes.

Awesome.6120:

Nerelith.7360:

and me NOT being 80, does not make my opinion less relevant

It does because the entire point of this thread is to talk about WP costs at 80. Just because you are off on some tangent doesn’t change this.

If you read what I said in context, you will see what i was refering to, wasn’t the cost of tp at 80.

I am sorry if what I am saying is not being greeted with enthusiasm, but… a game is no excuse to treat people like tools, and me NOT being 80, does not make my opinion less relevant, because when i eventually hit 80, it will not change.

What I was saying was, that whether I am 80 or not, i am not the type of person that only sees friends as a tool to be used to develope my character, or a hindrance to be ’ tolerated, and suffered."

Quote in context. Is it possible that at level 80 tp costs are prohibitive? let’s say you are 100 % correct. Does that mean you should be " counting pennies" before you help friends? because you don’t want to spend a Little time farming to cover the tp costs?

THIS is what I was refering to. THIS has nothing to do with my level. THIS will not change regardless of level.

Then again, I am not surprised with this argument." what do you know you ain’t 80." has to do with player experience at level 80. But it is irrelevant when it comes to evaluating how you treat other people.

I don’t care how you treat people or if you help friends by donating a kidney. That’s not part of this conversation.

I too think the cost of teleport for a level 80 character is exorbitant, I walk as much as possible too. I don’t mind a small fee, but it is silly to pay so much to travel among points that I have unlocked.

So let me get this straight, this guy is going to refuse to help his friends if the teleport costs are too high? Yeah, I think that’s a bit… weird.

Also, I do believe that the high teleport costs serve a purpose. Firstly, it makes it so that you can’t just teleport around event spots farming them endlessly. Secondly, it encourages exploration, which puts people into the world, which makes things livelier. Thirdly, as I already mentioned, it encourages you to plan ahead.

Bakimono.4639:

Nerelith, the point the OP is making is it takes 10-15 min to recoup the cost of a single teleport. I somewhat agree that it’s a bit steep but at the same time…. it makes you reconsider walking (time sink) or porting (money sink). It would be nice if a port 2-3 min of walking away didn’t cost 2-3 silver (in the event that you get killed)

Try 1-2 minutes. Tops.

True it kind of flies in the face of revisiting old zones when really you just throw away a lot of money especially considering you might want to warp around for events and things in each zone.