Guild Wars 2

There has certainly been a LOT of controversy following Anet changing the leveling experience. I can NOT speak for the trait changes, or anything else for that matter. I decided to give gw2 another try and rolled a Norn warrior. First 10 levels were a little dry, but they had me go heart to heart and it was a fairly smooth experience. The thing I love is that when you hit level 10, you get a bunch of story quests to do in a row. This REALLY created the story for me and caused me to care. I have a 58 mesmer(no 80, ik, I suck) and I have no idea whats going on in the story, why? Because it seemed to “side quest” feeling with the lack of attention it got. I would get a story quest every few levels. At least this ensures the story is introduced to me better. So I cannot go too deep into why its better, but in terms of the questing experience, I like it!

Shortly after the patch came out, I confess I didn’t like what they did. However, it would seem that given a bit of time, and a hotfix or two, the experience feels alright. And I personally like doing all the story quests in a single chapter in one go as it’s more smoother to do compared to just finishing an episode, levelling a couple of times before you do the next one. However, I can see this being bad for those who prefer the other way as they’d rather do the next episode of the story immediately after finishing their first heart. It’s the fact that the option is not made available at least not as early as it used to be.

I think the more effective compromise would be to have the chapters available but retain the difficulty based on the level (in this case, keep the first story chapters at Level 10) to give players the idea that the option is still there and if they want to do the story missions early they can do so, but expect it to be difficult to pull off if you are not at the desired level.

The main problem with the update is that there’s almost no combat at all. Autoattacking and not dodging? Honestly, wut? How is that fun in the least bit to anyone?

Level gating everything is the only real problem, that and removing conditions/stuns and anything that makes combat mildly interesting.

Most people that I’ve spoken to or have seen express their distaste with modern MMOs often includes having all development resources catering to the crowd of people that want to put forth minimal effort into gameplay. This is what is happening here.

Pain.7638:

btw now when you unlock the skill 2 you unlock skill 2 for all weapons so you dont need to GRIND to have all skils unlocked in all weapons and if your a elementalist you dont need to GRIND all attunement too…

Lmfao. Oh that’s cute. You actually considered unlocking weapon skills grinding.

As a person that played Runescape for over 8 years, you’d have probably failed to survive on there for longer than a few minutes.

you unlock the secound skill at lvl2 right after the tutorial that you can skip till the boss and kill him in like 1 minute, you can dodge after you create the character in the tutorial area… did you even try it? i’m sure you didnt … oh and btw you lvl way more faster now then before till lvl 15. btw now when you unlock the skill 2 you unlock skill 2 for all weapons so you dont need to GRIND to have all skils unlocked in all weapons and if your a elementalist you dont need to GRIND all attunement too…

I have more to add.

I’m currently looking through my old pictures that I took over a year ago when I was leveling up. My friend is laughing at me and I’m like, repulsed at how horrible I was… omg it’s tear-inducing.

http://i.imgur.com/MKZpfWG.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Fl63L80.jpg

The reason I had terrible weapon choices/skills (besides being a dumb noob) was because in my mind, it hardly made much of a difference. I rarely had trouble killing any mobs while I ran around. In fact aside from jumping puzzles or trying to figure out how to get to a vista I can’t recall anything remotely close to being a challenge up until I found champions and tried to solo them.

I think that is the real problem why people seem to have issues with learning how to play the game properly. Nothing requires you to learn. If mobs were actually threatening, like for example on ArcheAge, it would encourage players to learn and come up with tactics to kill mobs without losing as much hp/dying. If there was actually consequence to death aside from having to press F next to an anvil, then perhaps there’d be a reason to care about death.

So while the NPE may aim to help new players learn the game, it doesn’t give them a reason to care to learn how to play effectively. There is a lot of controversy about it because of more than one reason obviously but I figured that this might be a neat perspective for some of you to consider.

Feel free to laugh at the horrendous noob pics of me too.

I think changing the way the story quests were presented are not what upset everyone this patch, many thought that was a cool idea. Removing a lot of fun things from the starting maps and level gating items for seemingly no reason are what did it. Also removing part the Greatest Fear story line from the Personal Story.

I don’t think level gating everything and dumbing down early content was needed as it was easy pretty easy to figure out in the first place. Anet would have been better to create more Tool Tips on things when you first click on it explaining exactly what it does. Or have some starting heart quests telling you to equip a bundle to do something that also includes Tool Tips. Was there even a player who said “oh a bundle of sticks let me pick it up, hey my skills are gone WTF!!!! This game is too hard and complicated, I can’t handle this! quits game forever”

And as for the class skills that get removed in the beginning (Mesmer shatter, Guardian Virtues, Ranger pet skills.) Surely there was a better way to handle that as well. My thought was to also include a better explanation of them instead of just out right removing them only for them to poof back when you hit the appropriate level. A better direction would have been to maybe not to include them in the opening tutorial but have to go to a trainer right when you get onto the normal starting map. Such as:

Charr Ranger goes through tutorial with NO pet, and defeats Duke Barradin.
Charr Ranger enters the next map and talks to the Guide NPC as normal.
Charr Ranger recieves a mail, tutorial pops up saying something like "hey you got a letter in your mailbox, players can send mail and open letters in this tab here (bright arrows pointing to mail box icon) ect ect…

Dear (Characters’s Name)
Your deeds in the battle against Duke Barridan’s forces saved many lives and bought the Legions valuable time to repair the perimeter. Blah blah blah, ect ect…

“Your Ranger skills are impresive but I think I have something to teach you that could greatly increase your skills in battle. Come see me near the training grounds and I’ll teach you how to tame a Devourer for battle.
~Fengris Toothburrow

Charr Ranger does quest which clearly details how to tame a pet, unlocks your ranger class skills once you tame the pet, and creates a little bit more of a roleplaying quest for everyone giving an idea of what a Ranger is all about. Also would excite the player to look for more pets to tame

This way it not only explains things clearly to the player, it also creates immersion as well. Most other MMOs have starting quests like this. I would challenge the Developers to just download some other RPGs for a little while and take some notes. Hell even Guild Wars 1 had a pretty good tutorial starting area, just play Prophecies for a bit and do the Pre Searing area one time. A lot of the skills you first get have a little quest to go along with them.

Dragoonale.7518:

There has certainly been a LOT of controversy following Anet changing the leveling experience. I can NOT speak for the trait changes, or anything else for that matter. I decided to give gw2 another try and rolled a Norn warrior. First 10 levels were a little dry, but they had me go heart to heart and it was a fairly smooth experience. The thing I love is that when you hit level 10, you get a bunch of story quests to do in a row. This REALLY created the story for me and caused me to care. I have a 58 mesmer(no 80, ik, I suck) and I have no idea whats going on in the story, why? Because it seemed to “side quest” feeling with the lack of attention it got. I would get a story quest every few levels. At least this ensures the story is introduced to me better. So I cannot go too deep into why its better, but in terms of the questing experience, I like it!

this would suggest it would be better if the story was designed that you could do the first series of quests at the start of the game, rather than having to do something that wasnt that entertaining for an hour.

It seems to suggest, the best experience would have been a short optional tutorial based area that is skippable, (gets you used to the basics of the game) and then you should go right in to story mode.

the other problem, great you like story, and after an hour you got to see some! however, now you have to play for 10 levels between each step. and level 10-20 will probably take you about 3-4 hours of playtime. level 20-30 will probably take you 5-6. essentially you will feel like you have to grind to get to the interesting part.

Yes, but how did you get through those first 10 levels? That’s the thing, the first 10 levels are so boring. I’m curious how many people actually kept playing to level 10 during this free trial.

Had the story started at level 1, and then been given to the player at 10 level intervals that would have been far superior than making them wade through 10 levels to get to the first story chapter. Although I personally liked to be able to do bits of the story when I started to feel like leveling was a chore. The story quest would give me a boost of experience and cut the monotony. But my personal preference aside, not starting the story at level 1 is still a bad idea. Where’s the hook for new players?

Had the story been done this way it would have been more in line with the original level to story quest too. As it is now, you don’t get to do the story until you are over-powered for most of it.

Penarddun.6827:

Yes, but how did you get through those first 10 levels? That’s the thing, the first 10 levels are so boring. I’m curious how many people actually kept playing to level 10 during this free trial.

Had the story started at level 1, and then been given to the player at 10 level intervals that would have been far superior than making them wade through 10 levels to get to the first story chapter.

Had the story been done this way it would have been more in line with the original level to story quest too. As it is now, you don’t get to do the story until you are over-powered for most of it.

yup, but they didnt design the story that way, it was actually supposed to lead players to the zones they were supposed to be at whatever level.

The end result of that is, that if they made the first story arc low level, they would have had people going into zones higher than their level to complete it, and dying. So they chose to push it back to level 10.

Problem is, it actually makes the beginning way less entertaining and purposeless. They basically introduce you to the game with objective being to grind. I can think of very few games that are able to sell the start up of the game with no purpose at all. Even open world skyrim starts you with a clear narrative, and hook before throwing you into the open wilderness.

This is the result of a hastily created solution they had to jury rig onto the old system.

and this is the biggest flaw, i think many new players, most especially free trial players who have commited nothing, with now quit before even hitting level 10, i would say the breaking point would be around level 7-9. They d be like ehhh, next game.

People have to realize that it takes about an hour now to reach level 10 if you follow that little arrow they give you. If it is your first time, most likely you’ll assume the first hour is to learn stuff and by then you’re level 10.

It’s not taking you days to reach level 10.

I’ve played very few MMOs where the first hour was exciting. The first hour of most MMOs is just learning where to go and what to do.

And people who’ve played for a long time forget how visually stunning the world is and how good the combat feels, even with only a couple of skills.

So you get a skill, 1 minute into the game you get a second and it’s probably 15 minutes after that you get a third. By that point, you’re just looking around the world and seeing what is there.

You see the empty slots as something to unlock. You see the other stuff that starts appearing and realize there’s more of it.

No one I know plays the first hour of an MMO and thinks, this is going to be the best experience of my life. Most of us have been trained to think that the first ten levels are sort of learning.

Nothing in WoW was all that exciting to me up until level 10 and WoW seemed to do okay.

There’s no way I could consider dancing for cows and patting fire an improvement for bundles.

Wolfmoon.2976:

snip

Love your suggestion, +1+1+1+1

I would like to see a video of someone taking an hour to get to level 10. Because that has not been my experience. And yes, I followed the arrow.

I felt the grind at level 4-5 and then again at level 7-9 with the 2 new characters I’ve tried since the patch. Then again at level 12 after I finished the PS segment.

You have to bear in mind that a lot of the complaints on the forum came from the period between the 9th, when the feature patch was first released, and the 16th when they undid some of the changes and adjusted others.

You can read the full list here: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2014-09-16
But the important things are that they changed a lot of character-unlocks to account unlocks, meaning unless it’s your very first character on that account you’re not nearly as limited as you used to be by the NPE and they reduced the levels at which skills unlock. It used to be that you got your 2nd and 3rd utility skills at levels 24 and 35 and your elite at level 40!

Now it’s a lot better. The first 10 levels or so (I’d say 13, until you get a utility slot) are still more something to get through so you can start actually playing than something to enjoy, but it’s still an improvement.

The story being divided into chapters was actually one of the more popular changes. Some people didn’t like it but it would be a very long way down a list of controversial decisions in the feature patch.

The problems with the story start after level 60. They completely changed the order of it and removed an entire story arc, but didn’t change the dialogue or text so it’s a complete mess right now. Characters you’ve never seen before talk as if you’re best friends in one quest, then in the next one you’re introduced to them for the first time, NPCs talk about you having done things you never did (and never will do), or events which are going to happen later on, in one quest you defeat a major boss character, in the next you discover their existence for the first time…and so on. Hopefully they’re going to fix it soon.

Vayne.8563:

People have to realize that it takes about an hour now to reach level 10 if you follow that little arrow they give you. If it is your first time, most likely you’ll assume the first hour is to learn stuff and by then you’re level 10.

It’s not taking you days to reach level 10.

I’ve played very few MMOs where the first hour was exciting. The first hour of most MMOs is just learning where to go and what to do.

And people who’ve played for a long time forget how visually stunning the world is and how good the combat feels, even with only a couple of skills.

So you get a skill, 1 minute into the game you get a second and it’s probably 15 minutes after that you get a third. By that point, you’re just looking around the world and seeing what is there.

You see the empty slots as something to unlock. You see the other stuff that starts appearing and realize there’s more of it.

No one I know plays the first hour of an MMO and thinks, this is going to be the best experience of my life. Most of us have been trained to think that the first ten levels are sort of learning.

Nothing in WoW was all that exciting to me up until level 10 and WoW seemed to do okay.

The beginning of any entertainment usually requires them to in some way entice and hook you on the game. GW2 wasnt that strong in this before, and it is even worse after npe.

Aion started off with some big battle, you flying, some people getting killed and you losing your powers
FFXI started with a huge cutscene with some huge battle, introduces you to some intriguing facet of your starter area’s story, and leads you to various quests/stories in the area
champions online starts you with a city under seige stuff blowing up, and super heroes showing you the ropes
DC universe starts with city under seige (hmmm heard that before) getting your super powers, and fighting super powered opponents

If you are trying to stop people from quitting within the first 15 levels (as npe seems to suggest) i think its a really bad idea to tell them to go do random, mostly pointless things for the first hour of your game.

Now, if the fighting systems, and other things were really attractive, just that experience alone could draw people in for the first hour, but its really not anymore. 3 skills for like 30 minutes. Enemies that sit down and die no matter what you do. usually in game design you make early AI still dangerous, but not complex. Like mario can still die from a goombah in the first screen.

the only thing good about the NPE is how fast it is to get done. The people who can play it a lil while and give it a bit may not leave, but these people were always gonna play it awhile and give it a bit. The people who got frustrated with swapping weapons and left, are just as likely to leave because the game seems to have no purpose/hook in the first hour.

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

People have to realize that it takes about an hour now to reach level 10 if you follow that little arrow they give you. If it is your first time, most likely you’ll assume the first hour is to learn stuff and by then you’re level 10.

It’s not taking you days to reach level 10.

I’ve played very few MMOs where the first hour was exciting. The first hour of most MMOs is just learning where to go and what to do.

And people who’ve played for a long time forget how visually stunning the world is and how good the combat feels, even with only a couple of skills.

So you get a skill, 1 minute into the game you get a second and it’s probably 15 minutes after that you get a third. By that point, you’re just looking around the world and seeing what is there.

You see the empty slots as something to unlock. You see the other stuff that starts appearing and realize there’s more of it.

No one I know plays the first hour of an MMO and thinks, this is going to be the best experience of my life. Most of us have been trained to think that the first ten levels are sort of learning.

Nothing in WoW was all that exciting to me up until level 10 and WoW seemed to do okay.

The beginning of any entertainment usually requires them to in some way entice and hook you on the game. GW2 wasnt that strong in this before, and it is even worse after npe.

Aion started off with some big battle, you flying, some people getting killed and you losing your powers
FFXI started with a huge cutscene with some huge battle, introduces you to some intriguing facet of your starter area’s story, and leads you to various quests/stories in the area
champions online starts you with a city under seige stuff blowing up, and super heroes showing you the ropes
DC universe starts with city under seige (hmmm heard that before) getting your super powers, and fighting super powered opponents

If you are trying to stop people from quitting within the first 15 levels (as npe seems to suggest) i think its a really bad idea to tell them to go do random, mostly pointless things for the first hour of your game.

Now, if the fighting systems, and other things were really attractive, just that experience alone could draw people in for the first hour, but its really not anymore. 3 skills for like 30 minutes. Enemies that sit down and die no matter what you do. usually in game design you make early AI still dangerous, but not complex. Like mario can still die from a goombah in the first screen.

the only thing good about the NPE is how fast it is to get done. The people who can play it a lil while and give it a bit may not leave, but these people were always gonna play it awhile and give it a bit. The people who got frustrated with swapping weapons and left, are just as likely to leave because the game seems to have no purpose/hook in the first hour.

I don’t know. I think, even with one skill the starting experiences, short though they are, are enough to promise more and bigger things. I think you underestimate them, having already tired of them.

The actually moving and attacking isn’t something you do in many MMOs, but again, it passes very fast.

I’m willing to wager that the minor differences in the starter zones aren’t going to turn most people off. Nothing in WoW was all that exciting (though I’ll admit Rift had a very good beginning).

Still, I just don’t see this as a major problem. Anyone who can’t sit still for half an hour isn’t going to be playing an MMO anyway.

Penarddun.6827:

I would like to see a video of someone taking an hour to get to level 10. Because that has not been my experience. And yes, I followed the arrow.

I felt the grind at level 4-5 and then again at level 7-9 with the 2 new characters I’ve tried since the patch. Then again at level 12 after I finished the PS segment.

I’ve gotten to level 10 in an hour but I knew exactly what to do and where to go, including skipping hearts that are slower and how to go to another starter zone to get easy experience.

I’ve seen claims that someone has gotten to level 10 in 30 minutes by casual playing and while chatting with friends. I really don’t see how they do it myself and would love to see some sort of video or detail of how they did it.

Astral Projections.7320:

Penarddun.6827:

I would like to see a video of someone taking an hour to get to level 10. Because that has not been my experience. And yes, I followed the arrow.

I felt the grind at level 4-5 and then again at level 7-9 with the 2 new characters I’ve tried since the patch. Then again at level 12 after I finished the PS segment.

I’ve gotten to level 10 in an hour but I knew exactly what to do and where to go, including skipping hearts that are slower and how to go to another starter zone to get easy experience.

I’ve seen claims that someone has gotten to level 10 in 30 minutes by casual playing and while chatting with friends. I really don’t see how they do it myself and would love to see some sort of video or detail of how they did it.

It’s the luck of running into a couple of dynamic events. When I hit Queendale and that small farm, the bandit event was going on. I was like level 4 before I knew what was going on. It was really really fast.

My guess is those who happen to hit events will level significantly faster than those who don’t. You can know which hearts to go to, but that doesn’t mean you’ll hit events.

Different zones also have different amounts of events pretty much as soon as you walk out the door. I suspect Queensdale and Caledon forest won’t be quite as fast as Wayfarer foothills.

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

People have to realize that it takes about an hour now to reach level 10 if you follow that little arrow they give you. If it is your first time, most likely you’ll assume the first hour is to learn stuff and by then you’re level 10.

It’s not taking you days to reach level 10.

I’ve played very few MMOs where the first hour was exciting. The first hour of most MMOs is just learning where to go and what to do.

And people who’ve played for a long time forget how visually stunning the world is and how good the combat feels, even with only a couple of skills.

So you get a skill, 1 minute into the game you get a second and it’s probably 15 minutes after that you get a third. By that point, you’re just looking around the world and seeing what is there.

You see the empty slots as something to unlock. You see the other stuff that starts appearing and realize there’s more of it.

No one I know plays the first hour of an MMO and thinks, this is going to be the best experience of my life. Most of us have been trained to think that the first ten levels are sort of learning.

Nothing in WoW was all that exciting to me up until level 10 and WoW seemed to do okay.

The beginning of any entertainment usually requires them to in some way entice and hook you on the game. GW2 wasnt that strong in this before, and it is even worse after npe.

Aion started off with some big battle, you flying, some people getting killed and you losing your powers
FFXI started with a huge cutscene with some huge battle, introduces you to some intriguing facet of your starter area’s story, and leads you to various quests/stories in the area
champions online starts you with a city under seige stuff blowing up, and super heroes showing you the ropes
DC universe starts with city under seige (hmmm heard that before) getting your super powers, and fighting super powered opponents

If you are trying to stop people from quitting within the first 15 levels (as npe seems to suggest) i think its a really bad idea to tell them to go do random, mostly pointless things for the first hour of your game.

Now, if the fighting systems, and other things were really attractive, just that experience alone could draw people in for the first hour, but its really not anymore. 3 skills for like 30 minutes. Enemies that sit down and die no matter what you do. usually in game design you make early AI still dangerous, but not complex. Like mario can still die from a goombah in the first screen.

the only thing good about the NPE is how fast it is to get done. The people who can play it a lil while and give it a bit may not leave, but these people were always gonna play it awhile and give it a bit. The people who got frustrated with swapping weapons and left, are just as likely to leave because the game seems to have no purpose/hook in the first hour.

I don’t know. I think, even with one skill the starting experiences, short though they are, are enough to promise more and bigger things. I think you underestimate them, having already tired of them.

The actually moving and attacking isn’t something you do in many MMOs, but again, it passes very fast.

I’m willing to wager that the minor differences in the starter zones aren’t going to turn most people off. Nothing in WoW was all that exciting (though I’ll admit Rift had a very good beginning).

Still, I just don’t see this as a major problem. Anyone who can’t sit still for half an hour isn’t going to be playing an MMO anyway.

half an hour, yeah, but it takes an hour to get to 10, and have the game tell you what your purpose for now is/why you are playing the game.

and honestly i have played many games for hours, there are some games i still havent played again after 20 minutes. I have read 1600 page books, and yet some other ones i never get past page 10. You got to bring people in with any entertainment medium. The irony is, i think the people who will stay are those who know mmos sometimes start slow, and are willing to give the game a chance inspite of not having much hooks early. And this exactly not the person for whom they needed to make this NPE

think about it, one of the complaints was people doing only their story, and not being high enough level for it after the first few. This kind of implies, they were attracted to their story, and now that part is totally missing for an hour of the game. For a true newb, the point of the game will seem like hearts, and honestly hearts are not one of the best parts of the NPE/story/world/lore imo.

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

snip

The beginning of any entertainment usually requires them to in some way entice and hook you on the game. GW2 wasnt that strong in this before, and it is even worse after npe.

Aion started off with some big battle, you flying, some people getting killed and you losing your powers
FFXI started with a huge cutscene with some huge battle, introduces you to some intriguing facet of your starter area’s story, and leads you to various quests/stories in the area
champions online starts you with a city under seige stuff blowing up, and super heroes showing you the ropes
DC universe starts with city under seige (hmmm heard that before) getting your super powers, and fighting super powered opponents

If you are trying to stop people from quitting within the first 15 levels (as npe seems to suggest) i think its a really bad idea to tell them to go do random, mostly pointless things for the first hour of your game.

Now, if the fighting systems, and other things were really attractive, just that experience alone could draw people in for the first hour, but its really not anymore. 3 skills for like 30 minutes. Enemies that sit down and die no matter what you do. usually in game design you make early AI still dangerous, but not complex. Like mario can still die from a goombah in the first screen.

the only thing good about the NPE is how fast it is to get done. The people who can play it a lil while and give it a bit may not leave, but these people were always gonna play it awhile and give it a bit. The people who got frustrated with swapping weapons and left, are just as likely to leave because the game seems to have no purpose/hook in the first hour.

I don’t know. I think, even with one skill the starting experiences, short though they are, are enough to promise more and bigger things. I think you underestimate them, having already tired of them.

The actually moving and attacking isn’t something you do in many MMOs, but again, it passes very fast.

I’m willing to wager that the minor differences in the starter zones aren’t going to turn most people off. Nothing in WoW was all that exciting (though I’ll admit Rift had a very good beginning).

Still, I just don’t see this as a major problem. Anyone who can’t sit still for half an hour isn’t going to be playing an MMO anyway.

half an hour, yeah, but it takes an hour to get to 10, and have the game tell you what your purpose for now is/why you are playing the game.

and honestly i have played many games for hours, there are some games i still havent played again after 20 minutes. I have read 1600 page books, and yet some other ones i never get past page 10. You got to bring people in with any entertainment medium. The irony is, i think the people who will stay are those who know mmos sometimes start slow, and are willing to give the game a chance inspite of not having much hooks early. And this exactly not the person for whom they needed to make this NPE

think about it, one of the complaints was people doing only their story, and not being high enough level for it after the first few. This kind of implies, they were attracted to their story, and now that part is totally missing for an hour of the game. For a true newb, the point of the game will seem like hearts, and honestly hearts are not one of the best parts of the NPE/story/world/lore imo.

I agree with you. I think a more exciting beginning would net more players…however, I also think that the game overwhelmed other players. And that’s the real problem there needs to be a balance.

Probably Anet should have unlocked the first three skills in the tutorial, but made the tutorials “more”. Not to say increased their size, but they’re exciting enough to have done more of the work on the hook…with three skills unlocked. Probably if you’re going with 1 skill, you have to make it fast.

And yes, hearts aren’t the best introduction to the game. On the other hand, it is very different from other MMOs, particularly talking to the scout and sort of explaining some of what’s going on.

The problem is, neither of us can really go back and play the game as a new player because we can’t erase what we know.

I think the game would have been beautiful enough to keep me playing just on that alone. It felt different than other MMOs and still should.

Time will tell whether this is successful or not.

Pain.7638:

you unlock the secound skill at lvl2 right after the tutorial that you can skip till the boss and kill him in like 1 minute, you can dodge after you create the character in the tutorial area… did you even try it? i’m sure you didnt … oh and btw you lvl way more faster now then before till lvl 15. btw now when you unlock the skill 2 you unlock skill 2 for all weapons so you dont need to GRIND to have all skils unlocked in all weapons and if your a elementalist you dont need to GRIND all attunement too…

yeah the problem is NOT thats its not avilable. you don´t NEED to dodge or pay attention to condis at all. THATS the problem. by the time they enter the 15-25 zones they probably forgot the only time they needed to dodge. and they ahd to dodge into an AOE circle, teaching it´s okay to do so.
Anet should have not jsut removed thing, they should have redesign the approch to basic combat features. Like a mini boss in a heartquest that has a knock back and an NPC yells for help and also warns them to DODGE his mighty weapon swing, in addition to the pop ups telling whihc key to press.
after this mini boss you can have normal mobs having abilities you can dodge but they are not a game changer. they jsut exists to give the new player a constant use of a newly learned ability. same with condis: either a boss or an Aoe that causes cripple (because it only slows a palyer down and does no dmg) needs to be dealt with. a frinedly NPC could help the player out be periodicly removing the conditions always saying something when he does so, drawing the palyers attention to the fact that he has conditions. with the rewrd there can a hint that certain skill can remove condis. and when the palyer moves on he find more mobs each with different condis. atm the moment they only cause one or two condis but the player would have after learned about condis constanly situation where condis can be applied. He gets thought to play the game properly without throwing only pop ups in his face. The player learns the game by playing it. that is the best indicator of a very good game.

To weapons skill: level gating is still dumb. instead they could have re arranged some hearts in the starting zones to train with their weapons.
for exsample the one heart in queens vale where you “practice” to handle weapons. move that closer to the beginning and actually let players “learn” their weaponskills. you get free weapons for it (whihc disappear after you finshed all weapons skills) to leanr all possible skills but you only need one or two weapons the new players allready has.
like that new players are ACTIVLY encouraged to pay attention to skills and learn playfully to use them. they learn what weapons they can use with their class and actually their class in of itself. again the player learns to play “BY PLAYING THE kittenING GAME” (quote Arin Hanson)
And that allone can awake the sensation of accomplishment. By playing the game and learning the basics, knowing how you can approch enemies in of it self can be a big reward for all newcomers.
From that point new comers will look into the utility skill they unlock, test them and find their own way to use them, build a build on their own.
And then come the traits. the want to explore the world for its traits allone has begun and newcomers explore the world, learn the lore from NPCs and players and continue on becoming better players, become low level pugs that don´t suck in doungens and much more.
does this what i describbed sound 1000x better then what the NPE is right now? doesnßt this sound like…..the manifesto?

ShroomOneUp.6913:

Pain.7638:

you unlock the secound skill at lvl2 right after the tutorial that you can skip till the boss and kill him in like 1 minute, you can dodge after you create the character in the tutorial area… did you even try it? i’m sure you didnt … oh and btw you lvl way more faster now then before till lvl 15. btw now when you unlock the skill 2 you unlock skill 2 for all weapons so you dont need to GRIND to have all skils unlocked in all weapons and if your a elementalist you dont need to GRIND all attunement too…

yeah the problem is NOT thats its not avilable. you don´t NEED to dodge or pay attention to condis at all. THATS the problem. by the time they enter the 15-25 zones they probably forgot the only time they needed to dodge. and they ahd to dodge into an AOE circle, teaching it´s okay to do so.
Anet should have not jsut removed thing, they should have redesign the approch to basic combat features. Like a mini boss in a heartquest that has a knock back and an NPC yells for help and also warns them to DODGE his mighty weapon swing, in addition to the pop ups telling whihc key to press.
after this mini boss you can have normal mobs having abilities you can dodge but they are not a game changer. they jsut exists to give the new player a constant use of a newly learned ability. same with condis: either a boss or an Aoe that causes cripple (because it only slows a palyer down and does no dmg) needs to be dealt with. a frinedly NPC could help the player out be periodicly removing the conditions always saying something when he does so, drawing the palyers attention to the fact that he has conditions. with the rewrd there can a hint that certain skill can remove condis. and when the palyer moves on he find more mobs each with different condis. atm the moment they only cause one or two condis but the player would have after learned about condis constanly situation where condis can be applied. He gets thought to play the game properly without throwing only pop ups in his face. The player learns the game by playing it. that is the best indicator of a very good game.

To weapons skill: level gating is still dumb. instead they could have re arranged some hearts in the starting zones to train with their weapons.
for exsample the one heart in queens vale where you “practice” to handle weapons. move that closer to the beginning and actually let players “learn” their weaponskills. you get free weapons for it (whihc disappear after you finshed all weapons skills) to leanr all possible skills but you only need one or two weapons the new players allready has.
like that new players are ACTIVLY encouraged to pay attention to skills and learn playfully to use them. they learn what weapons they can use with their class and actually their class in of itself. again the player learns to play “BY PLAYING THE kittenING GAME” (quote Arin Hanson)
And that allone can awake the sensation of accomplishment. By playing the game and learning the basics, knowing how you can approch enemies in of it self can be a big reward for all newcomers.
From that point new comers will look into the utility skill they unlock, test them and find their own way to use them, build a build on their own.
And then come the traits. the want to explore the world for its traits allone has begun and newcomers explore the world, learn the lore from NPCs and players and continue on becoming better players, become low level pugs that don´t suck in doungens and much more.
does this what i describbed sound 1000x better then what the NPE is right now? doesnßt this sound like…..the manifesto?

Hi ShroomOneUp.6913

what you said is nice ofc, but what i said was for one guy who come here only to troll saying " you CAN only autoatack and you CANT dodge! " and that its not true… i think for a tuto area that you do in 1 minute more or less having only skill 1 and heal skill its normal specially when most of the players come from games that you cant move while atacking or dodge…

I agree with you and it was epic to have that kind of remake in first hearts or tuto area that really help you to learn how play the game like the exemple you said about dodge aoe atacks from a boss with the help of a npc and not that cheesy tutorial that we have now lol but i like way more the skills now then before that make me to grind kitten till i unlock all of them…

and for ppl talking that you cant do it in less then a hour… srly? then yeah this feature pack was really weak because even now you guys dont know how to play this game… i think i needed more time to unlock all my skills on my ele with all wepons and in all attunements then now to get my chars to lvl 10…

Well I have to disagree completely with the OP. The leveling process feels very dry and there is no such “unique levelup reward”, it’s just a part the devs have cut out from the game to hand it to you on a silver platter later on.
All mechanics have been removed from low level areas, the worst by far is the initail instance. Prior to the NPE changes I was stopping to hear what the NPCs have to say or to help them. I had a reason to do so because I would unlock more weapon skills while helping them. Now it’s just lame and I try to get past it as fast as possible.
I also dislike the story changes. The story was never particulary great, the first 20 levels were the best though. The biggest advantage the story had was that you could decide when you want to do it. You could do it underleveled or wait until level 80 to play all of it at once. Now that’s gone and the story just feels like another tedious grind.

Pain.7638:

Hi ShroomOneUp.6913

what you said is nice ofc, but what i said was for one guy who come here only to troll saying " you CAN only autoatack and you CANT dodge! " and that its not true… i think for a tuto area that you do in 1 minute more or less having only skill 1 and heal skill its normal specially when most of the players come from games that you cant move while atacking or dodge…

I agree with you and it was epic to have that kind of remake in first hearts or tuto area that really help you to learn how play the game like the exemple you said about dodge aoe atacks from a boss with the help of a npc and not that cheesy tutorial that we have now lol but i like way more the skills now then before that make me to grind kitten till i unlock all of them…

and for ppl talking that you cant do it in less then a hour… srly? then yeah this feature pack was really weak because even now you guys dont know how to play this game… i think i needed more time to unlock all my skills on my ele with all wepons and in all attunements then now to get my chars to lvl 10…

yeah the attunment thing was not that good and they should made it possible to unlock all attunment skill no matter what ttunment you are in. or just keep the old unlocking and jsut made it instantly for all slots. I jsut dislike the levellockin. i mean if you were really invested in the game you wanted to fill your skill slots as fats as possible with skill challanges here and there you could easily fill up your bar in the first 3 levels. now i HAVE TO WAIT until all skillslots are open even after the starting zone. and player who weren´t sure may not have gotten as fast or as many skill points but they still gotsomething and could spend one skill point each level on the low tier utility skills. Now with the first skill points beeing rewared much later and through the level gating there is an unnessacry face to the birck wall feeling. more confident new comers are artificaly slowed down by this current system.
Of course the level gaining is now much faster and it doesn´t take so long to get to a decent skill slot number, however the sped up levleing is only vailable because there is the levelgating, which with the old leveling speed would be really anoying.
Anet basicly broke to pieces of wood apart, which were screwed together and tried to reassamble it with one layer ductape.

Dragoonale.7518:

There has certainly been a LOT of controversy following Anet changing the leveling experience. I can NOT speak for the trait changes, or anything else for that matter.

I’ve gotten over my aversion to the NPE especially after some issues were corrected in the followup patch. I also appreciate that you distinguished your comment by mentioning that you are not lumping in the TRAIT changes of April.

To me the TRAIT changes are the deal breaker and have completely derailed the leveling enjoyment I used to have with my new alternate characters.

I hit 30 on my Engineer and got my “one” Trait point…six levels later I get another.

I’m sorry that just SUCKS.

I have since given up trying to complete zone maps, Hearts and Events until I reach 80 and have a skill set.

I do not like playing on a hobbled character. (Please note, I had previously leveled an Engineer [since deleted] under the old Trait system, so I have a frame of reference)

I will just ride the EotM Zerg Train until 80 and do my Personal Story when they get pooped out to me.

I’ll just deal with the challenges at 80, makes things a lot more enjoyable, not going to play on nerfed characters.

It’s not my ideal of fun, but something I will do before rage quitting this train wreck forever.