Guild Wars 2

Quitting because of storyline characters? This is pretty new to me. Oh well, to each his own, I guess.

Danikat.8537:

LFk.1408:

When I played the Elder Scrolls series, I was fascinated with how the universe had a history, and how everything had a story and fell into place. Heck, there were even fully written and fleshed out books that you could read in the world (in Skyrim), and there was nothing off-putting or goofy.

You think there’s no comedy elements in The Elder Scrolls? I’m going to assume you’ve never played Morrowind or Oblivion in that case. Or somehow missed things like the Fighters Guild ‘rats in the attic/cellar’ quests. A lot of the dialogue you can overhear and some of the books are far less than serious too.

Let’s be real here. There’s no way you can compare the stories in GW 2 to Elder Scrolls stories. That said, there’s no way you can compare any single player game to an MMO. They’re designed differently.

Even Guild Wars 1 was entirely instanced, which is one of the reasons the stories were easier to tell. It’s not a true MMO and shouldn’t really be compared to Guild Wars 2.

I think Guild Wars 2 has some of the best story telling in any MMO. But I don’t think it will ever compare to single player games, or games that are largely or totally instanced.

I know the OP is talking about the humorous side of the personal story but to say that GW1 didn’t have a healthy dose of tongue-in-cheek is to have a bad memory. A large number, if not the majority, of the titles of quests in GW1 were inside jokes about something in pop culture. I don’t have a good memory so you’ll have to look some examples up on wiki. And don’t forget the blatent Python aside with the GW:EotN following the rabbit into the hole quest. GW1 was at its best when it was being comically irreverent. Who DIDN’T look forward to April Fool’s day to see what the devs had instore?

As for the GW2 storylines, I’m not a diehard RPGer so I don’t expect my games to play like a great work of literature, and I may be daft, but I was truly shocked at one particular point in my storyline (I don’t want to spoil anything). It hit me like a ton of bricks. Still, I can see how someone would want more and all I can say is ‘too bad it isn’t working out for you’ because it sure is for me. I’ve stopped playing anything else but GW2, for a number of reasons.

Oh yes, Guild Wars 2 lore and story is a definite downgrade from Guild Wars. Here’s my worst offenders:

The Order of Whispers

Before release we were led to believe that the three orders were working to bring Zhaitan down in different ways. The Vigil and Priory were pretty much what they were now but OoW was completely different. In the blog post we were told that Order of Whisper believed the dragons cannot be killed, but they were instead working to put them back to sleep. In fact, at release I joined OoW only because I knew they weren’t going for the kill. So imagine my disappontment when I found out what the storyline really was like.

Trahearne

I didn’t mind him taking the spotlight in my Sylvari’s story. He was a firstborn after all and introduced early in my storyline. But was it really necessary to make him say “this wont end well” all the kitten time. What a great leader, telling his troops “this wont end well” 24/7 and then “moving on”.

Story moving to Orr also made sense in Sylvari personal story since our firstborn friend had a wyld hunt to cleanse it and Sylvari were born to fight the dragons. Sylvari also had Asura to deal with Primordus and his destroyers so they could afford to sne their troops to fight Zhaitan.

Now for my non-sylvari’s this is a completely different thing. For them Trahearne just popped up out of nowhere and the game presumed my character’s trusted him from the first moment they laid eyes on him. Seriously, what? I’m pretty certain any self-respecting Asura wouldn’t let a cabbage take the spotlight just like that. Not to mention Asura have Primordus and Destroyers to deal with and it obviously isn’t going too well concidering they’re still not back underground after 250 years. Now I assume the game was trying to tell a story of my just-graduated asura being sent to deal with the less important matter (Zhaitan) but it didn’t do it very well.

For humen Zhaitan was threatening the Queen (who doesn’t seem to have a drop of Krytan blood in her but l guess 250 years was enough for Ascalonian genes to completely overrule the Krytan ones in her Kingdom), so attacking him made sense. However the stories themselves are quite bad (Logan instantly trusts a street rat, what?), and once again Trahearne just pops up and my naive character just becomes a fanboy.

Not commenting on Norn and Charr as I’m not as familair with those stories but I doubt the move to Orr, ignorance of Jormag and Kralkatorrik and Trahearne just popping up was handled any better.

The Order and Pact storylines

After amazing diverse racial stories where even the same race could have a completely different experience, the Order stories were a huge disappointment. They are far too similar, have far too many shared quests and the introduction of The Pact was the worst thing that could have happened to the Guild Wars 2 story. After doing all the three orders it becomes painfully obvious how nothing you previously do in your personal story matters. Sure there is small differences like certain NPC’s not being dead and recognizing you but it will still be the same approach to defeat Zhaitan and the same events will still take place. Sure I get to see the events from different angles but if it was supposed to be my story, why do I feel like a bystander in so great extend?

What I had expected for my OoW Sylvari

I would join OoW who was working to put the dragon back to sleep. It would be my wyld hunt to save Tyria from Zhaitan. Pretty far in the story, OoW would fail in their attempt to put Zhaitan back to sleep, and instead decide to collaborate with the other two orders. Eventually the collaborating orders would kill Zhaitan, but do it in individual squads. For example Vigil would shoot him down with their airship and tanks, Priory would shield the forces and weaken Zhaitan with powerfull ancient magic and OoW would sneak close to him and strike at the weak spots.

I apologize for the lack of sources but I cannot find the old Anet blog nor the posts in it anywhere :/

On the topic of Tybal, I think he was fine and written well. He was a nice comical break and his self-sacrifice made sense. Overall I think he was the best written companion. As for future expansions and living stories, I seriously hope they spend more time looking at the lore and making good stories. Unfortunately looking at Rox and to lesser extend Braham, it looks like they’re not doing that.

Edit:

Oh… Didn’t realize what a wall of text I wrote

Also I’d like to add that the storylines do have some great stuff in them and there’s some truly amazing little stories hidden everywhere around Tyria.

man…tybalt is such a low rank in the order though….that he can get away with not being so serious….its kind of like your “rookie” stage….but seriously, in the end, tybalt even gets serious and does something that makes you respect him even more….

though it is sad that the development of that single character, beats the development of every other character in the game….especially Trahearne, that guy makes me want to shoot myself

LFk.1408:

Huh. Well I did click on this thread expecting some of the following:

- I can’t get a legendary
- Fractals are boring
- Dailies are boring
- Everything is too expensive
- The trading post tax is too high.

So you agree?

Sinifair.1026:

Do you think the movie would have been as huge a succes if they hadn’t taken the story seriously?

A: There was actually quite a bit of comedy in LotR and especially The Hobbit, though it doesn’t play that way today.
B: Jackson scrapped most of that comedy for friggen dwarf tossing…yep that was really serious. Just one of the places Jackson shows disrespect for the original material in his 20+ hour cashgrab.

I played GW1 for years, and I’m loving exploring GW2’s world and finding the areas I used to play through in GW1. ToA is here, Yaks Bend, the ruins of old LA, and many more. Then there’s the tombstones and all that connect you to the events in the first game, or the stuff that happened in between. If you look around, I think you’ll find much more to appreciate in this games lore than is at first apparent.

I will agree that this games story mode brings up very little of the world’s lore, but it’s there if you take a second to look around.

i love the lore to the game and i like the comedic touch they implemented on it. i dont see the problem. i found myself really into the storyline several times, its probably one of the best storylines for an mmorpg….like top3. if its not to your liking…..well im sorry i guess? gw1 is gw1 and gw2 is gw2, done. also later you find out that tybalt hasnt even been on a real mission yet cause he is a rookie -.-. nuff said.

i cant wait to max out my gear so i can destroys allll :o in wvw :>. you just have to get into the aspects of gw2, its a beautiful game.

Danikat.8537:

LFk.1408:

When I played the Elder Scrolls series, I was fascinated with how the universe had a history, and how everything had a story and fell into place. Heck, there were even fully written and fleshed out books that you could read in the world (in Skyrim), and there was nothing off-putting or goofy.

You think there’s no comedy elements in The Elder Scrolls? I’m going to assume you’ve never played Morrowind or Oblivion in that case. Or somehow missed things like the Fighters Guild ‘rats in the attic/cellar’ quests. A lot of the dialogue you can overhear and some of the books are far less than serious too.

I want to make it clear that funny and goofy are two different things here.
- But do you find the examples in Morrowind and Oblivion to be fun or goofy? I don’t find it witty, funny or pleasingly amusing in GW2?
- Actually, the things that I’ve found funny in GW2 were quite amusing. This thread isn’t really about me not wanting humor in game, but some characters taking things more serious, when there is no time to joke around or to joke about, really.
- It’s like making a joke at a funeral (it’s not the time. Know when to use humor, I say).

(There was a side quest in a Mission in Guild Wars 1, when you were going in to rescue Kormir. A Kournan Guard wanted you to escort some prisoners over to the prison island, where Kormir were held. The text for refusing this quest was “Sorry. We’re not the Guards you’re looking for.” which I found to be amusing but also somewhat subtle humor)

Adry.7512:

i cant wait to max out my gear so i can destroys allll :o in wvw :>. you just have to get into the aspects of gw2, its a beautiful game.

I know. That is also why I’m playing. There are a lot of fun aspects to enjoy together with some friends in GW2 and they are fun to do.
- My friends, though, are also RP’ers, so they require lore and storytelling so they know what they have to work with, when they make their character.
As they left, I have been solo’ing in GW2, which is fine for now, since I have examinations and graduation coming up, so I don’t play as much, but I fear the time will come when I just don’t feel like logging in any longer.
- And I really want GW2 to be able to do this. It’s a game I want to get into, but it is less enjoyable without anyone playing with you (and no offense to the rest of the playerbase, but I just prefer to play together with those few friends, talk over skype or having a LAN-party and basically just hang out and have a good time).

Got one friend who is roleplaying and, like the other of my friends, she haven’t played GW1. Problem is, the guild she is in sometimes make some lorebreaks and such, at rare occassions they have, yes. And there are a lot of guilds and lot of roleplay going on in the cities, because they don’t know anything about the world and the lore. I think it’s a shame, and that the storytelling aspect can be improved.
- Better storytelling would solve the issue of roleplay getting into the world, and probably eventually get all my friends back in the game.

Life is already too serious. I want to play a fun game.

TankAnyone.5370:

I played GW1 for years, and I’m loving exploring GW2’s world and finding the areas I used to play through in GW1. ToA is here, Yaks Bend, the ruins of old LA, and many more. Then there’s the tombstones and all that connect you to the events in the first game, or the stuff that happened in between. If you look around, I think you’ll find much more to appreciate in this games lore than is at first apparent.

I will agree that this games story mode brings up very little of the world’s lore, but it’s there if you take a second to look around.

I like it too, but it grows stale after some time, I think. I don’t want to wander aimlessly around.
- I miss that there is a point to what I’m doing, and the Living Story aspect can hopefully cover this issue (or I believe it will, at least).

Snow White.9680:

Life is already too serious. I want to play a fun game.

Go eat an apple, Snow White. :P

A game actually consist of three aspects, which is: Toy, Immersion and Goal.

If a game has the Toy aspect, it will be able to provide immediate fun. Like when you had a toy as a child, and you could have instant fun with it without the need to read a manual and such.

Immersion is when you forget you’re playing a game, which I haven’t experienced yet in GW2, and I have had that experience with other games, such as GW1, WoW, Elder Scrolls, Neverwinter Nights, Gothic.
- Basically it is because the NPC’s act as though they are part of the world, acting like the world is real. If they truly believe it in the game, then you can also come to believe it to some extent. (I’m not talking about not being able to tell the difference, but being immersed into the lore and wanting to know more).

I agree with OP, I can take fun, but GW2 is often reduced to slapstick – ‘bad salad joke anyone?’, Tybalt’s style which just doesn’t cut it with Order of Whispers if you remember that organisation from GW1, or those pesky Asura wherever you go as just a few examples.

But what the OP wrote that I felt is most important is that while GW2 is a beautiful world, it just feels very empty as well without lore/storytelling. It’s not like I login anymore for cool story content, it’s mostly all grinding now – fractals, guild missions, dungeons, dailies, monthlies.

Dondarrion.2748:

I agree with OP, I can take fun, but GW2 is often reduced to slapstick – ‘bad salad joke anyone?’, Tybalt’s style which just doesn’t cut it with Order of Whispers if you remember that organisation from GW1, or those pesky Asura wherever you go as just a few examples.

But what the OP wrote that I felt is most important is that while GW2 is a beautiful world, it just feels very empty as well without lore/storytelling. It’s not like I login anymore for cool story content, it’s mostly all grinding now – fractals, guild missions, dungeons, dailies, monthlies.

Who’d have thought my post could be summed up in those few words.

- My problem is that without my comrades I will only be playing GW2 for so long, which I feel is a shame.
I believe they can do better (I’ve seen them do it in GW1) and hopefully they will.

Sinifair.1026:

(There was a side quest in a Mission in Guild Wars 1, when you were going in to rescue Kormir. A Kournan Guard wanted you to escort some prisoners over to the prison island, where Kormir were held. The text for refusing this quest was “Sorry. We’re not the Guards you’re looking for.” which I found to be amusing but also somewhat subtle humor)

Then there were these moments:

I’m not entirely sure I understand what the OP wants, existing dialogue and characters won’t change in any way, new quests/storylines to be “darker” maybe?

…I really don’t understand why everyone and their pet feel the need to tell everyone else why they are leaving – I just don’t care.

That said, I love the comedic undertones (and overtones) in both the personal story AND the persistent world. If I want deep, dark and intense storytelling, I read a good book – or play a single-player game, though those (with a deep story AND gameplay that is fun to me) seem to become increasingly rare…

Also, some of the more successful books I know have a lot of comedy in them to balance the action and suspense. It’s all about personal taste I suppose (plus I still find much of the Lord of the Rings fairly boring – awesome world-building, great language development, lackluster storytelling).

From what I remember of the Order of Whispers in Guild Wars 1, it was ultra serious. It was also Elona and it was 200 years ago. Elona has been cut off from the rest of the world.

So 250 years later, you have a shell of an organization that’s hanging around Tyria, and what makes you think it would have the same level of anything as it once did. Times changes. Organizations change. The order of whispers would have gone through several Master of Whispers in this time and the order would be flavored by those Masters.

To say that the Order of Whispers in Kryta today is going to be like the one in Elona 250 years ago is just an assumption on the part of players.

Raege.1069:

Trahearne

Now for my non-sylvari’s this is a completely different thing. For them Trahearne just popped up out of nowhere and the game presumed my character’s trusted him from the first moment they laid eyes on him. Seriously, what? I’m pretty certain any self-respecting Asura wouldn’t let a cabbage take the spotlight just like that. Not to mention Asura have Primordus and Destroyers to deal with and it obviously isn’t going too well concidering they’re still not back underground after 250 years. Now I assume the game was trying to tell a story of my just-graduated asura being sent to deal with the less important matter (Zhaitan) but it didn’t do it very well.

For humen Zhaitan was threatening the Queen (who doesn’t seem to have a drop of Krytan blood in her but l guess 250 years was enough for Ascalonian genes to completely overrule the Krytan ones in her Kingdom), so attacking him made sense. However the stories themselves are quite bad (Logan instantly trusts a street rat, what?), and once again Trahearne just pops up and my naive character just becomes a fanboy.

Not commenting on Norn and Charr as I’m not as familair with those stories but I doubt the move to Orr, ignorance of Jormag and Kralkatorrik and Trahearne just popping up was handled any better.

Nice spoiler tags there, but ok.

I know, you guys all wanna be the hero, but sometimes you gotta take the side track. In order to get where you ultimately set out to go to.

Imo, everyone who says Trahearne is hijacking glory and what not have not been paying attention to the grander scope of the story. Which sadly, isn’t fleshed out completely, also due to forced choices like forcing to pick an order, and ultimately canceling us out for being the leader of the pact.

Frizz Freston, I actually agree with you.
- I think the voice acting could do with some tweaking, but as a character, I liked Trahearne.
You also meet him in the Sylvari Personal Storyline, so he is not just “popping” up, as some say.

Trying my best to remember any video game I ever loved that was 100% serious all the time…

…I’ll let you know when it happens.

FrizzFreston.5290:

…

If someone doesn’t wanna get spoiled he does not read a thread complaining about lore and story.

I don’t know where you picked up that I wanted to be the hero. In fact I made it quite clear Trahearne being the leader made sense for my sylvari. My sylvari was the only one of my characters to whom the whole story made sense (other than the huge change to OoW that was made after the blogpost >.>). But I have no interest to delve in any more discussions about Trahearne. He’s not interesting enough for it.

Sinifair.1026:

You also meet him in the Sylvari Personal Storyline, so he is not just “popping” up, as some say.

He is doing just that for 4 of the 5 races. So for the majority of the playerbase he is Just popping up.

I find the GW2 stories to be a mixed bag. There are some I like, and a lot of them I find myself neutral to. I don’t hate any of them. Expecting published fiction quality from an MMO storyline seems to be a big ask. I think this is partly due to the constraints of fitting the story into an MMO storyline. Even the stories in ToR were a mixed bag, with a whole lot of meh mixed in with some bits of good.

In regards to the title of the post, well I know lore and storytelling can mean A LOt to some people. I for one stopped playing Diablo 3 because of the how the story was, in addition to other factors.

But enjoyable aspects of story and characters are subjective. It works for some, but probably doesn’t for others. OP might expect Tybalt to be wrong in being so goofy, but I personally liked that. For me it’s ok, in fact probably right he seems so considering his missions with players are his first field ops. I don’t fault anyone who disagrees, but I think in such matters we can only go so far as to agreeing to disagree.

Also: Equally some people like Trahearne, most don’t. I don’t fault his ‘rank title’ in the game, merely that he acts as if he is the main character. Why this is an issue to me is because as almost everyone else have said, it’s suppose to be a ‘personal story’, specifically the player character’s story is what the ‘personal’ is meant to refer to. So it feels off that Trahearne goes doing stuff, decides on stuff and all the while we simply play lackey. It’s like, to me at least, watching Star Wars only to see Han solo defeat darth vader. I mean Han Solo is a kitten cool character, but with the story having invested so much focus on Luke… :p

I don’t mind Trahearne too much, but I just got to the part in the storyline where my character is like “Oh, all these attacks have been against me, but obviously YOU’RE the real target, Trahearne!”…that did rankle a bit.

Sinifair.1026:

Frizz Freston, I actually agree with you.
- I think the voice acting could do with some tweaking, but as a character, I liked Trahearne.
You also meet him in the Sylvari Personal Storyline, so he is not just “popping” up, as some say.

What do people have with Trahearne’s voice? o.O For me, it’s the defining characteristic that makes me like this particular character so much. (I find his voice fairly sexy)

Also, I do believe that the ‘popping up’ of quite some characters is meant as an appetizer – to entice you to play the other races, too.

I dont see the problem with how either Sieran or Tybalt are acting. It’s part of their personality. Sieran is a positive adventurous person that probably joined the Priory due to her love for ancient burried treasures. Neither of them are goofy in my mind.

Considering a dark world threatened by gods know how many ancient evils I think a humorous mind is needed to not go hang yourself from the nearest bridge in LA.

And I can tell you a little personal story about a bad thing that happened where humor followed shortly after. This is pointed towards your “making a joke at a funeral comment”.

6 years ago I found my mother dead in her bed. Later on that same day after I got home from the hospital they took her body to I decided it was time to call my brother in the US (I live in Sweden) and tell him what happened.

As I tell him about her passing, things just get very quiet and awkward, just silence. But then the silence is broken by my brothers question “so… what did she drop?”. At which point we both break down in laughter, and some of the grim seriousness of death goes away for a while. Then we keep talking about more serious things.

Sinifair.1026:

“What part of secret society didn’t you understand?”
- Let me tell you what I think is wrong – That he doesn’t act professional, keeping it cool and not panicking like that.
The Order of Whispers in GW1 were really, really hard core. You wouldn’t find them (certainly not at a fruit stand), no, they’d find you when you were alone and out of sight from the public eye.

This is a great example of what bothered me so much about the storyline. It’s as though they aren’t taking this game seriously at all. Like oh you the player get to be the center of attention blah blah because you’re the hero! :MASSIVE SARCASM:

I was supremely disappointed in The Order of Whispers. They weren’t even my favorite faction to begin with, but I at least expected them to be dark and methodical considering they’ve been able to survive all these centuries, even after palawa joko and the crystal dragon blocked of the path to Elona. If the devs don’t take this game seriously, how is anyone else expected to? :/ Look at the the Dark Brotherhood in Skyrim. You’re actually afraid of them or curious about them, because the other NPC’s react to them in that manner. Sure, Anet was going for the easy laugh with an bumbling secret agent, but I had a really hard time caring about what happened to Tybolt in the long run. Actually I was kind of glad when he died, there was nothing significant about him other than that. No real development, nothing. At least Master Togo from Factions was likable and I did actually care about what happened to him in the end.

You get games like TES which actually do make you the hero because they take it seriously. The characters feel realistic and have some depth or interest to them. They aren’t always stereotypes of stereotypes. In GW there was betrayal, like in Factions. In Prophesies the White Mantle weren’t who you thought they were and it wasn’t always clear who was good and who wasn’t. Nightfall did a great job of drawing you closer and closer toward the slow corruption of the land through the realm of torment. In the realm of torment you could speak to ghosts from the past who were confused and frightened adding to the creepiness of the environment. Not to mention you get lots of lore information about elona in the past by talking to those npc’s.

They may have been trying to show that in Tyria with the undead and Orr, but it just wasn’t well implemented. They don’t tell you enough about Orr so new players won’t really appreciate why Orr is so significant. The temples were interesting, but you don’t survive long enough to see much of anything important. Orr was just, filled with zombies. You get hints of Orrian culture here and there in the personal storyline, but nothing truly substantial, which is SO disappointing considering how much time and lore they had to draw from.

Regarding Traharene: he was ok at best. I don’t really know how to describe it but even Kormir was more respectable as a leader. I suppose it was because she was a seasoned military veteran though.

Destiny’s Edge: Rytlock was not a good successor to Pyre Fierceshot. He was pretty decent during the charr storyline, but everything regarding Logan was just….lame. I got so tired of every member’s incessant whining.

The voice actors were not the problem, they were all fantastic. The problem was with the dialog and the plot.

The goofiness and sarcasm worked best with the Asura I think, but that’s to be expected. Throwing that in too much with the other races was a mistake. The charr however had the strongest set of characters and storylines, by far.

Games like Skyrim turn me off, because you can be the leader of every single order on a single character. Sure, I’m the head of the mage’s guild, the thieve’s guild, the assassin’s guild and the companions. Much harder to believe than that I’m part of something else and spear-heading a charge against an elder dragon.

The whole you’re the chosen one thing is so trite and cliche. You’re the dragon born. Yeah, okay. I can buy into that.

Why can’t you be a hero and still be surrounded by other heroes? Why is it that being heroic means you’re the only one?

It seems a very narrow way to define heroism to me.

I mean Trahearne healed Orr which I wasn’t qualified to do. He wasn’t there when we assaulted Arah though.

emikochan.8504:

You can’t have a good story with ONLY seriousness all the time, real people aren’t like that. When things get bad, sometimes a bit of humour is all you have to keep morale up.

True that, but very little is serious in this game (character wise).

I agree with OP 100%. Especially on Tybalt. The only things I took away from him were that he was incompetent and had a poor sense of humor.

As for Prophecies, I loved that story line, and was very engaged throughout. I definitely never felt that way in GW2.

Still love the game tho, but wish the storyline was more on par with GW1.

Vayne.8563:

Games like Skyrim turn me off, because you can be the leader of every single order on a single character. Sure, I’m the head of the mage’s guild, the thieve’s guild, the assassin’s guild and the companions. Much harder to believe than that I’m part of something else and spear-heading a charge against an elder dragon.

The whole you’re the chosen one thing is so trite and cliche. You’re the dragon born. Yeah, okay. I can buy into that.

Why can’t you be a hero and still be surrounded by other heroes? Why is it that being heroic means you’re the only one?

It seems a very narrow way to define heroism to me.

I mean Trahearne healed Orr which I wasn’t qualified to do. He wasn’t there when we assaulted Arah though.

Because if everyone is a hero, then nobody is a hero.

Also, the idea of the singular hero has been an age old part of fiction that just works.

Write a book where everyone is the hero and see how well it turns out.

EDIT:

Here is the definition of the word hero from Merriam Webster for our editor:

1a : a mythological or legendary figure often of divine descent endowed with great strength or ability
b : an illustrious warrior
c : a man admired for his achievements and noble qualities
d : one who shows great courage

2a : the principal male character in a literary or dramatic work
b : the central figure in an event, period, or movement

As you can see, the majority of the definitions, especially as they relate to literary work, refer to a singular hero. Not plural.

Vayne.8563:

Games like Skyrim turn me off, because you can be the leader of every single order on a single character. Sure, I’m the head of the mage’s guild, the thieve’s guild, the assassin’s guild and the companions. Much harder to believe than that I’m part of something else and spear-heading a charge against an elder dragon.

The whole you’re the chosen one thing is so trite and cliche. You’re the dragon born. Yeah, okay. I can buy into that.

Why can’t you be a hero and still be surrounded by other heroes? Why is it that being heroic means you’re the only one?

It seems a very narrow way to define heroism to me.

I mean Trahearne healed Orr which I wasn’t qualified to do. He wasn’t there when we assaulted Arah though.

Again, I’m not totally bashing Trahearne but I wasn’t exactly impressed with him either. He was decent, but not great. I don’t mind being his right hand man (or woman), but the problem was a bit larger than that. What I really liked about Skyrim were the smaller quests and the subtle nuances included in the side missions. Even the fact that you are the Dragonborn isn’t made to be all that big of a deal, because the majority of the characters aren’t even aware of the fact that you are the special, unless you kill a dragon in front of them. You gain people’s respect slowly by doing small tasks for them. I’m not saying Skyrim is the best game ever made, but I wanted a concrete example of more subtle character behavior in a fantasy game. The guards treat you with contempt most of the time, or mild respect if you joined the companions for example. This doesn’t really change even after you become thane of a hold. The overall treatment of the characters was better than the vast majority of those in GW2, who were silly or a bit too sarcastic for my tastes. Most of the people in Skyrim have their own problems to worry about, like with the Civil War or just survival. You see a bit of that in the beginning of GW2 with the starting zones which was good, but something about the treatment of the characters in the main plot were just too cookie-cutter compared to GW1

In GW1 you do gradually earn their respect because of your deeds and because of how you work with others who are better tacticians, leaders etc. You end up being in the thick of things because you are useful too them, not because you are a king or an emperor or anything like that.

I have been in a life and death situation before in my life, with 3 of my friends, and during the ordeal, more then once goofy/humor happened more then once. It literally was one of the things we that helped our morale to get through it. So never discount goofy/humor during times you may consider inappropriate, because it may not be at all, but is actually what is needed.

eisberg.2379:

I have been in a life and death situation before in my life, with 3 of my friends, and during the ordeal, more then once goofy/humor happened more then once. It literally was one of the things we that helped our morale to get through it. So never discount goofy/humor during times you may consider inappropriate, because it may not be at all, but is actually what is needed.

1. Real life and great literary stories are very different
2. Having some comic relief is fine; however, it felt that most of this game’s story was comic relief

What would be ideal are serious characters and serious situations with hints of humorous lines thrown in. Instead we have a serious situation with humorous characters and this results in an awkward feeling by the player.

Sinifair.1026:

I want to make it clear to you that I like Guild Wars 2. I like that they’re trying something new and since I got out of my comfort zone (being accommodated to the quest-system and that way of playing) I found new joy in playing Guild Wars 2.

There is several issue that I think should be looked into but none more so than the storytelling and lore.
- The Magister at the Durmand Priory… couldn’t take her seriously to the same extent that I couldn’t take Vanille from Final Fantasy XIII seriously (which is also why I’ve left that game, and the same could very well happen with GW2 if they don’t start taking things more seriously). I mean her attitude to her superior as “Oh, don’t be such a sourpus” and then with going to fetch dwarven relics before the dredge complete it “C’mon. It’s going to be fun!” No, ANet, that doesn’t live up to your reputation.

- Tybalt I know is one of your favorite characters, but getting into the Order of Whispers with “Uh, apples, apples. We only sell apples here, nothing more!” and adding “What part of secret society didn’t you understand?”
- Let me tell you what I think is wrong – That he doesn’t act professional, keeping it cool and not panicking like that.
The Order of Whispers in GW1 were really, really hard core. You wouldn’t find them (certainly not at a fruit stand), no, they’d find you when you were alone and out of sight from the public eye.

I really looked forward to Guild Wars 2. GW1 wasn’t my favorite MMO when I started playing it, but I really got into the lore and found it rich and engaging, and eventually it became a favorite because of its lore.
- When I heard that GW2 came out and when I heard Mike O’Brien talk about it implementing everything that we loved about GW1, well, lets just say I was more than just excited.
- This is also why it felt like getting punched in the face when I couldn’t get into anything in GW2… even worse, I want it to engage me, but it doesn’t on the lore aspect of it.

My friends are leaving because of it, because while it is a beautiful world, it just feels empty without lore and storytelling. I’m the only one still playing regularly. At times they log in, but not for very long.
- This is how huge an issue it is to me.

If it doesn’t change then I can say for sure: I’m gonna leave too.
- I don’t want it to become like this, thus I am now making this thread, taking it up for discussion.

Do you think that Tolkien would have had such huge succes with Lord of the Ring and the universe if he hadn’t been serious about his work? Do you think the movie would have been as huge a succes if they hadn’t taken the story seriously?

I thought that the Living Story would ease the lack of story, because ANet wants to focus on what is happening now, but then suddenly: Rox!
- The look on this charr is… well, a joke. What is it with her eyes?

I’m going to give it a chance, of course… but ANet? You really need to pull yourself together, when it comes to this goofy style you got going. Take your world serious, because I do… to some extent… and it is vaning.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but not everything in this world is always soo serious. I like the funny quirks and the comedic in the game. I like the characters. It is those people that shed light in the dark, it is those people that will give hope when all is in dire straights. It is those that will be remembered. When the world is in dire straights the last you need is everyone all doom and gloom that does not build morale. As far as Tolkien goes, you obviously haven’t read all his books. Even they still carried a sense of humor.

eisberg.2379:

I have been in a life and death situation before in my life, with 3 of my friends, and during the ordeal, more then once goofy/humor happened more then once. It literally was one of the things we that helped our morale to get through it. So never discount goofy/humor during times you may consider inappropriate, because it may not be at all, but is actually what is needed.

Humor between friends in a bad situation isn’t unheard of. I just couldn’t buy it in GW2. It all felt so contrived. It was not satisfying at all for me. You aren’t really friends with Tybolt in the beginning, you’re just sort of tolerating him. They were going for the goofy/endearing angle which worked for some but was probably disappointing for others who were expecting something different from a group known as The Order of Whispers. Such as professionalism. Tybolt wasn’t trying to lighten up a bad situation with humor, he was just clueless. With the charr (aside from Tybolt) there was a lot of good natured ribbing that seemed natural and was above all else FUN. The last half of the storyline just didn’t work well though.

The heroes in GWEN were much more appealing to me and there was plenty of humor in that. There was racial tension between Gwen and Pyre, but not without some sympathy on Pyre’s end of things. There’s a lot of tragedy in Gwen’s past and she’s understandably angry about it. As opposed to Logan and Rytlock who were just kitten at each other. Jora is made to be an outcast because she has lost her ability to commune with Bear and must regain her honor by killing her own brother. Vekk has strained relations with his father, though you don’t know that they are blood related until Gadd dies. Just a few examples of how GW was different from GW2 character wise.

I think the problem is that they tried too hard to segment the story telling….the fact that we have the story fractured into so many bits and pieces in the personal story, well it is just a system that begets linearity. With the GW1 story, it felt engaging because it was the only one. It mattered a lot more than all these fragmented stories. I agree with OP that they need to be a bit more serious, the cash shop and the fact that the story is so atrocious just serve to make the game seem really contrived and casual. I think ArenaNet needs to cut out the personal story fiasco before they try to go and build more content around it in the future. GW1 story missions, people played and experienced together, which is part of the magic. If they took time away from making quantity, i think they could produce real quality. They need to stop with the broad focus, i mean, does no one else see laziness in the fact that theyve funneled these stories into a mold? Regardless of order, your mentor dies, regardless of anything, you have to research a lesser race. The story is just not delivered well here. In GW1, i just felt such a bigger connection to what the story was trying to do. Post-searing ascalon really put you in a mood, you hated the charr…maguuma and the white mantle made you question things, the shining blade made things interesting, you sympathized. I really just see laziness from ArenaNet in their inability to create compelling story. I just think the game suffers from them trying to homogenize the premise into all races being nice and worldly…same, generic badguys…dredge, flame legion…it just gets boring. Oh wow, now they’re teaming up. I’m at a loss for words, but GW2 is just unsatisfactory in this regard and i completely feel where TC is coming from.

I don’t think itd make me quit, but with a combination of how shallow the combat is, how everything seems to be about reward rather than deep engagement…these factors all together, i feel, are driving many away from the game.

[quote=1697963;Zhaneel.9208:

The goofiness and sarcasm worked best with the Asura I think, but that’s to be expected. Throwing that in too much with the other races was a mistake. The charr however had the strongest set of characters and storylines, by far. [/quote]

Really? And you’re the expert at this? Hardly.. On another note, the dark brotherhood in Skyrim are evil. The Order of Whispers are not evil and seek to save Tyria from the evil as everyone else.. They just do it in a different manner. So don’t confuse the two.

Eladriel.7295:

Really? And you’re the expert at this? Hardly.. On another note, the dark brotherhood in Skyrim are evil. The Order of Whispers are not evil and seek to save Tyria from the evil as everyone else.. They just do it in a different manner. So don’t confuse the two.

[/quote]

I’m not the only one who was disappointed with the storyline. I’m saying why I agree with the OP, I didn’t say my opinion takes precedence over anyone else’s. I was disappointed and expected more considering how much I enjoyed GW1 and I’m trying to articulate why I felt that way.

It’s true they aren’t evil, but at this point in time they are practically an ancient order and have been successful in infiltrating and gathering information from all over Tyria subtly and discreetly. Which is kind of the antithesis of what Tybolt is. This was amusing for some, but not for everyone. In Nightfall they were portrayed very differently, which naturally raised expectations for some of us.

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

Games like Skyrim turn me off, because you can be the leader of every single order on a single character. Sure, I’m the head of the mage’s guild, the thieve’s guild, the assassin’s guild and the companions. Much harder to believe than that I’m part of something else and spear-heading a charge against an elder dragon.

The whole you’re the chosen one thing is so trite and cliche. You’re the dragon born. Yeah, okay. I can buy into that.

Why can’t you be a hero and still be surrounded by other heroes? Why is it that being heroic means you’re the only one?

It seems a very narrow way to define heroism to me.

I mean Trahearne healed Orr which I wasn’t qualified to do. He wasn’t there when we assaulted Arah though.

Because if everyone is a hero, then nobody is a hero.

Also, the idea of the singular hero has been an age old part of fiction that just works.

Write a book where everyone is the hero and see how well it turns out.

EDIT:

Here is the definition of the word hero from Merriam Webster for our editor:

1a : a mythological or legendary figure often of divine descent endowed with great strength or ability
b : an illustrious warrior
c : a man admired for his achievements and noble qualities
d : one who shows great courage

2a : the principal male character in a literary or dramatic work
b : the central figure in an event, period, or movement

As you can see, the majority of the definitions, especially as they relate to literary work, refer to a singular hero. Not plural.

Lord of the Rings. Everyone was a hero. Gandalf, Aragorn, Frodo, even Sam. You can be part of a group of heroes who saves the world and it’s no less intense or wonderful than if you do it on your own.

Are you suggesting Aragorn was less of a hero than Frodo?

There’s tons of fantasy, good fantasy, where there is more than one hero. And there’s tons of good fantasy where the main hero is dependent upon other heroes.

And yet, the hero of the story is Frodo. The others are great characters that help him, but only Frodo can bear the weight of the ring. Without him all else fails. Without others, he still perseveres. In fact, the only other character that might be integral to destroying the ring is gollum, who we would hardly call a hero.

I’m sorry, I know what you are saying, but Frodo is the only true hero of the story. The others are notable allies. In GW2 you are barely even a notable ally and you certainly aren’t the hero.

clay.7849:

And yet, the hero of the story is Frodo. The others are great characters that help him, but only Frodo can bear the weight of the ring. Without him all else fails. Without others, he still perseveres. In fact, the only other character that might be integral to destroying the ring is gollum, who we would hardly call a hero.

I’m sorry, I know what you are saying, but Frodo is the only true hero of the story. The others are notable allies. In GW2 you are barely even a notable ally and you certainly aren’t the hero.

You read the books, or you watched the movie.

Frodo is one of the heroes. But without what Aragorn does, without the distraction at the gates that Aragorn and the other’s make, Frodo COULD NOT have completed his task.

And even Sam saves Frodo in the book. Using the elfen flame he got from Galadrial. Without Sam, Frodo wouldn’t have made it at all.

You see, Sam was a hero too. Aragorn was a hero. Frodo’s entire quest was dependent upon their actions.

And yeah, you don’t really get that as much from the movies.

I read the books multiple times and watches the movies multiple times. I agree that they are all great characters an integral to the story, but Frodo is the hero. Sam would also be a close second. Aaragorn is close as well, but even less so.

The fact that we are talking about a handful of characters still suggests that the hero(s) of a story are best centered around a small group of people at most and a story with lots of heroes just wouldn’t be all that amazing.

But, looking at the definition of a hero, Aaragorn, Sam, etc are all heroes in the sense that they are great characters, but they aren’t the hero. In the literary definition, the hero is Frodo. He is the center of the book and the only one able to carry out the ending. In this sense all of the other characters are secondary to Frodo.

Vayne, you can argue all you want, but you would be wrong. This isn’t up for interpretation. You are just blinded by your fanboy-ism to how bad this story really is and that most books, including LOTR, have one hero.

clay.7849:

And yet, the hero of the story is Frodo. The others are great characters that help him, but only Frodo can bear the weight of the ring. Without him all else fails. Without others, he still perseveres. In fact, the only other character that might be integral to destroying the ring is gollum, who we would hardly call a hero.

I’m sorry, I know what you are saying, but Frodo is the only true hero of the story. The others are notable allies. In GW2 you are barely even a notable ally and you certainly aren’t the hero.

That’s another reason why the movie fails. Peter Jackson’s trashing of Frodo at the Ford of Bruinen. In the book, Frodo – all alone at the Ford – stood up to the Nine. In the movie, Frodo might as well have been a sack of potatoes on Arwen’s horse. Boo, Peter Jackson. Boo!

I said this in another thread discussing Trahearne, but I feel that in GW2 my character (and yours, in your version of the personal story) should have joined all three Orders, worked with all three Orders, earned the trust and respect of all three Orders, thereby becoming the one person in all of Tyria who knew how they all operated, knew exactly what each could do, and knew how to get them to work together effectively. That’s how I would have done it.

I just can’t see Mr. Neutral Party Trahearne, who has never been part of any Order, who has no idea how they operate or what they do or go through on a daily basis, filling that role. That idea just didn’t work for me.

Plus, who would follow some gloomy gus always moaning about how things aren’t going to end well? Grumpy Cat has a more positive attitude. And more charisma.

Tachenon.5270:

clay.7849:

And yet, the hero of the story is Frodo. The others are great characters that help him, but only Frodo can bear the weight of the ring. Without him all else fails. Without others, he still perseveres. In fact, the only other character that might be integral to destroying the ring is gollum, who we would hardly call a hero.

I’m sorry, I know what you are saying, but Frodo is the only true hero of the story. The others are notable allies. In GW2 you are barely even a notable ally and you certainly aren’t the hero.

That’s another reason why the movie fails. Peter Jackson’s trashing of Frodo at the Ford of Bruinen. In the book, Frodo – all alone at the Ford – stood up to the Nine. In the movie, Frodo might as well have been a sack of potatoes on Arwen’s horse. Boo, Peter Jackson. Boo!

I said this in another thread discussing Trahearne, but I feel that in GW2 my character (and yours, in your version of the personal story) should have joined all three Orders, worked with all three Orders, earned the trust and respect of all three Orders, thereby becoming the one person in all of Tyria who knew how they all operated, knew exactly what each could do, and knew how to get them to work together effectively. That’s how I would have done it.

I just can’t see Mr. Neutral Party Trahearne, who has never been part of any Order, who has no idea how they operate or what they do or go through on a daily basis, filling that role. That idea just didn’t work for me.

Plus, who would follow some gloomy gus always moaning about how things aren’t going to end well? Grumpy Cat has a more positive attitude. And definitely has more charisma.

I think it would have been more natural to learn why the orders hated eachother, experience all three of them fall (with one character) and then have Trahearne resolve the altercations albiet only to deal with Zhaitan. That would have been premise for him becoming the marshal rather than the “oh let tree boy deal with it” contrivance the game resorted to, and there also would have been drama to build off of, what with Trahearne being the only one keeping the fragile alliance together.

clay.7849:

Vayne, you can argue all you want, but you would be wrong. This isn’t up for interpretation. You are just blinded by your fanboy-ism to how bad this story really is and that most books, including LOTR, have one hero.

Actually, I’ve studied this sort of thing for a long time. Certainly you saying I’m wrong doesn’t convince me that I’m wrong.

You see there are different ways to write books. There are characters that are heroes in books and they have sidekicks, as with Frodo and Sam. But in many treatises on Lord of the Rings, Aragorn is pointed to as the hero, rather than Frodo. He’s the one to front the path of the dead he’s the one to help win the battle of Gondor, he’s the one who the last book is named for “The Return of the King”.

I’m sure you’re very educated in your chosen field, but now you’re encroaching on my chosen field of study. You can say I’m wrong from today till doomsday but it doesn’t change the fact that there are many works of literature with multiple heroes, including most romances. I chose Lord of the Rings as an example because I figured most people would be familiar with it.

Who was the hero of the Illiad? Is that a better question for you? Who’s the hero of X-men for that matter?

Heroic fiction is one type of fantasy fiction. There’s also high fantasy of which heroic fiction is a subset. In a typical work of fiction, there is usually one protagonist but this isn’t always the case, or even often the case.

Try reading Lucifer’s Hammer and tell me there who the hero is.

Honestly arguing in the absence of fact is silly. But claiming I’m wrong because you say so isn’t much of an argument.