Guild Wars 2

Agree with you wholly. In addition, after the Cataclysm revamp, I never found myself underleveled for the zone I was in, but meanwhile, I keep having to pick a new starting zone in GW2 because the one I’m in had the recommended level for all the hearts go red.

Having players learn early how to play their class to survive, instead of allowing them to just waltz through cannon fodder enemies seems the better choice to me tbh. And I can’t say I noticed much of a difference in difficulty when leveling a Thief compared to a Guardian, just had to by more mindful of my skills’ secondary effects. If anything, playing Thief was actually more interesting.

I think that it’s good that it’s this way. It gives you a feel for the class early on. Thieves are squishier than guardians. You will notice this in early game and in late game. If you don’t like the class early on chances are you won’t like it down the road.

I hate to make a ‘L2P’ post but ..

It sounds like you need to just get used to the game and the way it plays. Utilize your dodge when you see the enemy queuing up an attack. Each type of mob has 1 or 2 heavy hitters that have tells so you can always dodge them.

Try different wepon combinations, one raged and one melee. Or one offensive and one defensive. For example mesmer staff is an excellent leveling option because it has so many defensive abilities. Couple that with your favorite offensive weapons (sword/sword/focus/great sword/pistol/scepter) and the mesmer can be a breeze to level with. I had the most success on my theif leveling with a shortbow when handling more than 1 mob, but everyone’s different.

Pay special attention to what your attacks do. A lot of them combo with others (even from different weapons) to give you powerful boons. Some even have built in evades or a way for you to become immune to all dmg for a couple seconds. Once you learn to time these spells right you realize just how easy this game is.

Naqaj.6219:

Having players learn early how to play their class to survive, instead of allowing them to just waltz through cannon fodder enemies seems the better choice to me tbh. And I can’t say I noticed much of a difference in difficulty when leveling a Guardian to leveling a Thief, just had to by more mindful of my skills’ secondary effects. If anything, playing Thief was actually more interesting.

The issue isn’t in leveling difficulty. I’m all for meaningful leveling content and it’s one of the things that drew me away from WoW to this game.

The issue is that some classes can simply rock the casbah from the get go, while others have an uphill fight for a long time. I’ve seen a ton of people advising to level thieves and mesmers to 40+ through crafting because they rely on traits and skills that do not unlock for a long time.

Leveling my thief – if I go dual daggers or one of the ‘cheese’ specs it’s a pain, but bearable. If I want to level my thief with dual pistols (which is what I want to do), it’s a bloody nightmare.

Honestly, balance isn’t all just numbers and isn’t all just endgame. If I have to invest 100% more effort into leveling one class than another…something is squiffy. And needs to be looked at.

how do you die on a mesmer? seriously, how?

I levelled mine and the only issue I had was finding enough mobs to round up to make it interesting.

You can faceroll multiple vets and champs on a mesmer.

Not sure about thief, I’m not a fan of that type of class, but maybe you need to adapt your playstyle.

Guardians can to an extent just tank stuff, other classes have to move more to avoid dmg.

Mirta.5029:

I think that it’s good that it’s this way. It gives you a feel for the class early on. Thieves are squishier than guardians. You will notice this in early game and in late game. If you don’t like the class early on chances are you won’t like it down the road.

Warriors are also squishier than Guardians, but make up for it by being able to down enemies faster. Thieves do not. If thieves can even become a glass cannon, they do not get the “cannon” part until deep into the trait tree.

Snow White.9680:

I hate to make a ‘L2P’ post but ..

It sounds like you need to just get used to the game and the way it plays. Utilize your dodge when you see the enemy queuing up an attack. Each type of mob has 1 or 2 heavy hitters that have tells so you can always dodge them.

Try different wepon combinations, one raged and one melee. Or one offensive and one defensive. For example mesmer staff is an excellent leveling option because it has so many defensive abilities. Couple that with your favorite offensive weapons (sword/sword/focus/great sword/pistol/scepter) and the mesmer can be a breeze to level with. I had the most success on my theif leveling with a shortbow when handling more than 1 mob, but everyone’s different.

Pay special attention to what your attacks do. A lot of them combo with others (even from different weapons) to give you powerful boons. Some even have built in evades or a way for you to become immune to all dmg for a couple seconds. Once you learn to time these spells right you realize just how easy this game is.

I hate L2P posts…and I knew they would be coming.

I don’t think of myself as a bad player. I play a lot of games and have been for nearly 30 years! And as I’ve said, I don’t mind challenging leveling content.

I just think that the early experience could stand to be smoothed out a tad. Feel free to ramp up the difficulty later.

In terms of thieves, it’s more of an issue of defensive and self healing traits being way too late in the game, while other classes get healing passives and neat defensive tools from the get go.

I’ll say that when I tried rolling a priest back in TBC days of WoW it was a nightmare. Later rolled one during Cata and it was a cinch. It took years of redesign and updates, etc to get WoW where it is. GW2 has been out for less than 9 months. Having said that…

I like that the game forces you to learn your profession’s mechanics even at an early level. A guardian can get away with facetanking as long as it has its boons, a thief needs to learn mobility, a mesmer needs to understand how to effectively use its illusions/clones. First character I ever rolled in GW2 was an ele and it was insanely squishy. Didn’t like it. Rolled a ranger and it was so much fun. Later I went back and tried ele again and since I was more comfortable with GW2’s general combat mechanics it was easier to grasp the specific ele mechanics that are more complex than say a ranger or guardian.

Keep at it. Some professions are more complex, but that doesn’t make them bad. Just more involved, which imo is good.

Cameirus.8407:

how do you die on a mesmer? seriously, how?

I levelled mine and the only issue I had was finding enough mobs to round up to make it interesting.

You can faceroll multiple vets and champs on a mesmer.

Not sure about thief, I’m not a fan of that type of class, but maybe you need to adapt your playstyle.

Guardians can to an extent just tank stuff, other classes have to move more to avoid dmg.

I mostly mean thief here, to be honest.

It’s not even just survive-ability. My guardian has far more dps (and aoe! ye gods!) from the get go. My thief has fairly weak damage and bugger all AOE until quite late.

The classes that have it easy in the beginning still have it easy in the end. It’s all about learning to play your class.

RebelYell.7132:

Mirta.5029:

I think that it’s good that it’s this way. It gives you a feel for the class early on. Thieves are squishier than guardians. You will notice this in early game and in late game. If you don’t like the class early on chances are you won’t like it down the road.

Warriors are also squishier than Guardians, but make up for it by being able to down enemies faster. Thieves do not. If thieves can even become a glass cannon, they do not get the “cannon” part until deep into the trait tree.

I already leveled both a warrior and a thief up. Warriors don’t feel as squishy as thieves. Having heavy armor alone gives you extra toughness in comparison to other classes. You have to move a lot with a thief. And you will always have to (unless you go for a p/p build that I have, then all you need is to keep your distance). In my opinion the leveling experience is close to what you get when you get to level 80.

Seras.5702:

I’ll say that when I tried rolling a priest back in TBC days of WoW it was a nightmare. Later rolled one during Cata and it was a cinch. It took years of redesign and updates, etc to get WoW where it is. GW2 has been out for less than 9 months. Having said that…

I like that the game forces you to learn your profession’s mechanics even at an early level. A guardian can get away with facetanking as long as it has its boons, a thief needs to learn mobility, a mesmer needs to understand how to effectively use its illusions/clones. First character I ever rolled in GW2 was an ele and it was insanely squishy. Didn’t like it. Rolled a ranger and it was so much fun. Later I went back and tried ele again and since I was more comfortable with GW2’s general combat mechanics it was easier to grasp the specific ele mechanics that are more complex than say a ranger or guardian.

Keep at it. Some professions are more complex, but that doesn’t make them bad. Just more involved, which imo is good.

Again, it’s also a matter of early game numbers. A thief doesn’t get much damage until quite a bit later (which is why people advise to level them with crafting initially by feeding mats from a higher level char).

I’m fine with learning mechanics etc. I just wish the experience was more consistent.

Also – I really don’t think advising a new player ‘oh, just avoid x class until you have a max level of y class’ is really acceptable advise.

I agree with what some other people say here…L2P

If you’re not gonna bother learning your class, utilizing dodge and most importantly, upgrading your gear, then you’re going to have a bad time.

Not to mention, some weapons are better than others.

When solo lvling, aoe skills are a must

RebelYell.7132:

Mirta.5029:

I think that it’s good that it’s this way. It gives you a feel for the class early on. Thieves are squishier than guardians. You will notice this in early game and in late game. If you don’t like the class early on chances are you won’t like it down the road.

Warriors are also squishier than Guardians, but make up for it by being able to down enemies faster. Thieves do not. If thieves can even become a glass cannon, they do not get the “cannon” part until deep into the trait tree.

Bingo. I think a BIG part of it is less mechanical and more numerical, early on, as well as having to wait a lot longer to access essential tools.

Warrio’s are PvE kings but in PvP they are the complete opposite. every class has the scenario where they shine as well as their own “personality”. Thief is about being sneaky, mobile and dealing damage, while warriors are all about Tank & spank

Also.. mesmers are probably the strongest class right now and they shine in every area of the game.

Being old and slow (can’t dodge or kite worth a hoot) I found that armor and builds makes considerable difference.
In WOW I was never able to level the rogue. In GW2 it took a couple of attempts but I got my Thief to level 80 relatively quickly. For me it did require more frequent armor upgrades. I also found that as I leveled each profession, the next profession got easier. I also found that by starting with the right profession to learn the game made a big difference. For me I went in the following sequence : Guardian, Ranger, Warrior, Elem, Thief, Nerco, Mesmer. Granted the order is somewhat interest oriented and I’m not suggesting a guardian is easier than a range or warrior. Note that the engineer is missing from the list. I have tried 4 times to level 20 and just can not get into that profession.

Vol.5241:

I agree with what some other people say here…L2P

If you’re not gonna bother learning your class, utilizing dodge and most importantly, upgrading your gear, then you’re going to have a bad time.

Not to mention, some weapons are better than others.

When solo lvling, aoe skills are a must

Aargh.

Why does ‘l2p’ equal ‘l2 use x weapons because y weapons aren’t viable until z level’. This is the kind of mindset that made me hate WoW.

Really. Are the ‘if you don’t agree with me on an aspect of the game then you are a bad player’ people this common here too?

Starbird.4029:

Vol.5241:

I agree with what some other people say here…L2P

If you’re not gonna bother learning your class, utilizing dodge and most importantly, upgrading your gear, then you’re going to have a bad time.

Not to mention, some weapons are better than others.

When solo lvling, aoe skills are a must

Aargh.

Why does ‘l2p’ equal ‘l2 use x weapons because y weapons aren’t viable until z level’. This is the kind of mindset that made me hate WoW.

Really. Are the ‘if you don’t agree with me on an aspect of the game then you are a bad player’ people this common here too?

They’re worse here. WoW L2Pers at least have a sense of humor, even if it involves Chuck Norris and arrows inside of knees.

Theoldman.6483:

Being old and slow (can’t dodge or kite worth a hoot) I found that armor and builds makes considerable difference.
In WOW I was never able to level the rogue. In GW2 it took a couple of attempts but I got my Thief to level 80 relatively quickly. For me it did require more frequent armor upgrades. I also found that as I leveled each profession, the next profession got easier. I also found that by starting with the right profession to learn the game made a big difference. For me I went in the following sequence : Guardian, Ranger, Warrior, Elem, Thief, Nerco, Mesmer. Granted the order is somewhat interest oriented and I’m not suggesting a guardian is easier than a range or warrior. Note that the engineer is missing from the list. I have tried 4 times to level 20 and just can not get into that profession.

Oddly, I had no hassles with my rogue in WoW, even in early Wrath. In GW2 though, I really want to play a gunslinger archetype, but to even stand a chance at enjoying it, I need to wait until a lot later to access certain traits.

RebelYell.7132:

Starbird.4029:

Vol.5241:

I agree with what some other people say here…L2P

If you’re not gonna bother learning your class, utilizing dodge and most importantly, upgrading your gear, then you’re going to have a bad time.

Not to mention, some weapons are better than others.

When solo lvling, aoe skills are a must

Aargh.

Why does ‘l2p’ equal ‘l2 use x weapons because y weapons aren’t viable until z level’. This is the kind of mindset that made me hate WoW.

Really. Are the ‘if you don’t agree with me on an aspect of the game then you are a bad player’ people this common here too?

They’re worse here. WoW L2Pers at least have a sense of humor, even if it involves Chuck Norris and arrows inside of knees.

Really? Sigh, if that’s the case I may just call it a day. One of the things that brought me over here was rumours of a nice online community. :|

No one is saying you’re a bad player, we’re saying you need to learn to play. Everyone does when they pick up a new game.

You’re pointing fingers at guild wars 2 and saying it’s learning curve is too steep and we’re telling you that we don’t think it is at all. Honestly if you think low levels are bad I feel sorry for you when you get to cursed shore.

Bottom line is: You can’t stand still on a thief and take hits to the face. You just can’t. Maybe thief isn’t for you.

Edit:

As far as inconsistencies within the classes.. I think it’s a good thing. It’s creates a diverse leveling experience which is great for the replay value. Why the heck would anyone want to level the same class over and over again? It’s boring!

In GW2 the classes all have unique identities and areas they shine in. The thief does not take a hit well, which is why you have SO many evasive abilities. A lot of those are tied to weapons which can be used at level 1.

Starbird.4029:

RebelYell.7132:

Starbird.4029:

Vol.5241:

I agree with what some other people say here…L2P

If you’re not gonna bother learning your class, utilizing dodge and most importantly, upgrading your gear, then you’re going to have a bad time.

Not to mention, some weapons are better than others.

When solo lvling, aoe skills are a must

Aargh.

Why does ‘l2p’ equal ‘l2 use x weapons because y weapons aren’t viable until z level’. This is the kind of mindset that made me hate WoW.

Really. Are the ‘if you don’t agree with me on an aspect of the game then you are a bad player’ people this common here too?

They’re worse here. WoW L2Pers at least have a sense of humor, even if it involves Chuck Norris and arrows inside of knees.

Really? Sigh, if that’s the case I may just call it a day. One of the things that brought me over here was rumours of a nice online community. :|

you might want to just find a nice guild or a couple of friends. All MMOs have elitists. This MMO has elitists that hate MF gear and lover Beserker warriors. Doesn’t mean that all the people in the game are this way

Starbird.4029:

RebelYell.7132:

Starbird.4029:

Vol.5241:

I agree with what some other people say here…L2P

If you’re not gonna bother learning your class, utilizing dodge and most importantly, upgrading your gear, then you’re going to have a bad time.

Not to mention, some weapons are better than others.

When solo lvling, aoe skills are a must

Aargh.

Why does ‘l2p’ equal ‘l2 use x weapons because y weapons aren’t viable until z level’. This is the kind of mindset that made me hate WoW.

Really. Are the ‘if you don’t agree with me on an aspect of the game then you are a bad player’ people this common here too?

They’re worse here. WoW L2Pers at least have a sense of humor, even if it involves Chuck Norris and arrows inside of knees.

Really? Sigh, if that’s the case I may just call it a day. One of the things that brought me over here was rumours of a nice online community. :|

Oh, I like Tarnished Coast’s community a lot. I have no doubt other server communities are good too. Here, on these forums, however, you’ll find a vacuous echo tunnel for developer statements.

Snow White.9680:

No one is saying you’re a bad player, we’re saying you need to learn to play. Everyone does when they pick up a new game.

You’re pointing fingers at guild wars 2 and saying it’s learning curve is too steep and we’re telling you that we don’t think it is at all. Honestly if you think low levels are bad I feel sorry for you when you get to cursed shore.

Bottomline is: You can’t stand still on a thief and take hits to the face. You just can’t. Maybe thief isn’t for you.

I’m not asking to be a thief tank.

What I’m asking for is, as another poster above stated, the ‘cannon’ in our glass cannon to be made available earlier.

Do you think it’s working as intended for my thief’s damage output in aoe situations to be so pitiful compared to my guardian for the first chunk of the leveling experience?

ALL classes should require a similar amount of skill and investment to level. That is all I’m trying to say. And I don’t know why people act like that’s a bad suggestion.

RebelYell.7132:

Agree with you wholly. In addition, after the Cataclysm revamp, I never found myself underleveled for the zone I was in, but meanwhile, I keep having to pick a new starting zone in GW2 because the one I’m in had the recommended level for all the hearts go red.

Heh… it only took several years for that to be the case. My early Cataclysm experience was leveing a Druid bear tank and realizing that I was completely unable to tank low-level dungeons due to a complete lack of aoe skills until level 40 or so. They didn’t change that until a month into the expansion.

A balanced experience is a reiterative process, and it’s never a quick one…

Starbird.4029:

Why does ‘l2p’ equal ‘l2 use x weapons because y weapons aren’t viable until z level’. This is the kind of mindset that made me hate WoW.

There’s always going to be certain weapons/traits/whatever that are better for some aspects of the game than others. That’s not unique to this game. Why would leveling be different? Anything is viable while leveling, it’s simply that you’re going to have an easier time with certain set-ups than others. Leveling with a shortbow is about as easy as it gets in this game. No one is telling you to forgo other options, just be aware of what you’re getting into with other options.

Snow White.9680:

No one is saying you’re a bad player, we’re saying you need to learn to play. Everyone does when they pick up a new game.

“L2P” has always been a derogatory meme.

RebelYell.7132:

Starbird.4029:

RebelYell.7132:

Starbird.4029:

Vol.5241:

I agree with what some other people say here…L2P

If you’re not gonna bother learning your class, utilizing dodge and most importantly, upgrading your gear, then you’re going to have a bad time.

Not to mention, some weapons are better than others.

When solo lvling, aoe skills are a must

Aargh.

Why does ‘l2p’ equal ‘l2 use x weapons because y weapons aren’t viable until z level’. This is the kind of mindset that made me hate WoW.

Really. Are the ‘if you don’t agree with me on an aspect of the game then you are a bad player’ people this common here too?

They’re worse here. WoW L2Pers at least have a sense of humor, even if it involves Chuck Norris and arrows inside of knees.

Really? Sigh, if that’s the case I may just call it a day. One of the things that brought me over here was rumours of a nice online community. :|

Oh, I like Tarnished Coast’s community a lot. I have no doubt other server communities are good too. Here, on these forums, however, you’ll find a vacuous echo tunnel for developer statements.

Sea of Sorrows seems to be decent too. But wow…this forum community can be something else. I’ve never understood the whole ‘if you don’t like it then get out’ attitude towards class suggestions. I’d rather make a suggestion regarding something I dislike in the hopes of getting it changed.

I’m still not seeing why making all classes relatively similar power wise at the get go would be a bad thing.

Leveling a thief is much easier if you focus on condition damage.

When I leveled my thief, I found it was actually fairly easy once you get a good sense for how to fight in PvE. (Of course, this was before stealthing didn’t drop agro).

I would run into the fight, drop caltrops, death blossom a couple of times and let the bleeds kill everything. That worked all the way up to 80.

That said, leveling different classes is definitely easier or harder depending on class, Warriors, Guardians, and Rangers facetank everything. Thieves work best with conditions. Mesmers are a disaster until level 40. Ele’s are quishy and have to kite like crazy.

I haven’t leveled any others so I don’t know.

Silentsins.3726:

RebelYell.7132:

Agree with you wholly. In addition, after the Cataclysm revamp, I never found myself underleveled for the zone I was in, but meanwhile, I keep having to pick a new starting zone in GW2 because the one I’m in had the recommended level for all the hearts go red.

Heh… it only took several years for that to be the case. My early Cataclysm experience was leveing a Druid bear tank and realizing that I was completely unable to tank low-level dungeons due to a complete lack of aoe skills until level 40 or so. They didn’t change that until a month into the expansion.

A balanced experience is a reiterative process, and it’s never a quick one…

Starbird.4029:

Why does ‘l2p’ equal ‘l2 use x weapons because y weapons aren’t viable until z level’. This is the kind of mindset that made me hate WoW.

There’s always going to be certain weapons/traits/whatever that are better for some aspects of the game than others. That’s not unique to this game. Why would leveling be different? Anything is viable while leveling, it’s simply that you’re going to have an easier time with certain set-ups than others. Leveling with a shortbow is about as easy as it gets in this game. No one is telling you to forgo other options, just be aware of what you’re getting into with other options.

Snow White.9680:

No one is saying you’re a bad player, we’re saying you need to learn to play. Everyone does when they pick up a new game.

“L2P” has always been a derogatory meme.

P/P is a very distinctive archetype. It’s similar to a different dps spec in WoW. All of those are viable to level as, and mostly fairly consistent. Sure, your Sub rogue may have slightly more trouble in certain areas, but nobody is going to tell you that it’s not viable for leveling – or suggest that, if it was, that it was working as intended.

Anyhoo, I’m off to bed. Please keep it on topic and constructive if possible.

RebelYell.7132:

Starbird.4029:

RebelYell.7132:

Starbird.4029:

Vol.5241:

I agree with what some other people say here…L2P

If you’re not gonna bother learning your class, utilizing dodge and most importantly, upgrading your gear, then you’re going to have a bad time.

Not to mention, some weapons are better than others.

When solo lvling, aoe skills are a must

Aargh.

Why does ‘l2p’ equal ‘l2 use x weapons because y weapons aren’t viable until z level’. This is the kind of mindset that made me hate WoW.

Really. Are the ‘if you don’t agree with me on an aspect of the game then you are a bad player’ people this common here too?

They’re worse here. WoW L2Pers at least have a sense of humor, even if it involves Chuck Norris and arrows inside of knees.

Really? Sigh, if that’s the case I may just call it a day. One of the things that brought me over here was rumours of a nice online community. :|

Oh, I like Tarnished Coast’s community a lot. I have no doubt other server communities are good too. Here, on these forums, however, you’ll find a vacuous echo tunnel for developer statements.

Polly want a cracker?

Insert paper clip helper

“I see you’re having trouble leveling with thief?”

Have you tried:
Sword + Pistol off hand. Smoke + auto attack combo? You’ll faceroll your way to 80 unless you run into dredge.

I do kind of agree. But seriously doing world pve is “so easy” I don’t think it matters much. I really have not much problem with my thief. I think the build I use is just caltrap spam and heavy condition. You just need to find the build which is good for leveling.

There is a few trick such as, if you are about to die, log out and log back in. Ash spy kit, ogre whistle, fire elemental. Tools which make game easier.

P/P gives you everything you need for chain killing mobs. Black powder to neutralize melee mobs, and again for ranged mobs (standing in the puddle and shooting out of it or shooting through it gives you blinding projectiles, smoke field + projectile finisher), and it does OK damage from range… but it’s not very good burst and has zero aoe to speak of. Honestly, anything ranged should have an easy time leveling in this game, since kiting is so strong. Melee might be harder for a squishy class, but it does much more damage.

While I’m think about it, d/d and p/d are great weapon setups for leveling a thief. (Condition damage spec.) If you do it, you should know that you only need one off hand dagger, leave the slot empty on the other set, and the existing dagger will carry over when you swap.

What Azure Power said; sword/pistol with shortbow is thief levelling made easy. You can take down Champs at lvl80 with that setup too.

I levelled mine this way.

Starbird.4029:

Also – I really don’t think advising a new player ‘oh, just avoid x class until you have a max level of y class’ is really acceptable advise.

Oh no, you misunderstand. That was simply my anecdote. While it’s true that certain classes are more complex in nature (ele, mes) I wouldn’t suggest not playing one. Plus, I never said “until you have a max level.” Point in fact, I still don’t have an 80. GW2’s combat system was new to me so (for me) it was better to start with an easy profession (Ranger) and then graduate to something more complex.

What I was trying to convey is that each class hs its own nuances and some are easier to utilize (guardian boons, ranger pets) while others can take some getting used to (ele attunements, mesmer clones). I think these are mostly a result of those being familiar mechanics that are used in other games.

If a thief seems squishy, you need to learn how to utilize the mobility & blind mechanics that it relies on for survivability. While someone might not want to read a L2P post, it simply does fall to that. Not in a mean way, but just that each profession relies on a skill set to stay alive & kill. Learn each professions’ nuances & you will excel.

Playing Thief is about dodging, though. That’s what the class is supposed to do. Way more than a heavy class than Warrior or Guardian. I think it’s good that classes are vastly different from the beginning, puts the player right into the class of their choice instead of going through the same generic levelling process the first half of the game.
I guess it’s all about preference, but I enjoyed levelling my Thief way more than I did my Guardian. The fact that it forced me to stay on the move was enjoyable for me, on the other hand, not having to move an inch to mow down mobs with my Guardian got pretty boring. Difficulty-wise it doesn’t make much of a difference as long as you know how to use your skills. I rarely died on my Thief unless I was way over-agro’ing or taking on stuff way above my own level.

Milennin.4825:

Playing Thief is about dodging, though. That’s what the class is supposed to do.

Sounds like a pretty bad PvE class, then. You can’t do anything while dodgerolling in this game. There’s no other way to proc evades AFAIK. Being a class “about dodging” works for, say a Bear or Monk Tank, because you’re also able to do your DPS rotation while doing it. Not here.

I think the issue is that thieves need to learn to play quite quickly but warriors don’t really need to learn to play until level … actually they can get all the way to dungeons without really learning to play. Most classes need to relearn their play in dungeons (or PvP).

I had a similar experience when playing a thief as my first character, it was so squishy that I would die every time a monster so much as looked at me.

That’s the reason why I played a Warrior, and it was the first toon I got to level 80.

After three months into the game, I decided to level my thief again since I really wanted to play that profession in the first place.

My thief is now my main toon.

Looking back, I think it was because I was spoiled in that “other game that must not be named” that I had trouble with the first few levels of gameplay as a non-heavy armored profession.

That, and this game being on a slightly different level in leveling experience than that “other game that must no be named”. GW2 kind of requires you to know your class when you play a non-heavy armor profession.

As for leveling a thief, you can find a lot of guides in the thief forum.

Having said that, I CAN recommend playing a dual pistol thief. I myself am playing one and I’m having fun with it.

BUT, I find the dual pistol build to be at a disadvantage when leveling. Dagger/pistol or sword/pistol tends to be MUCH better due to the fact that your number 5 (and number 3, if your D/P) skill can keep your opponents blinded (and unable to hit you) for 4 secs. It is also does not have a CD (except for its cost in initiative).

You can also pretty much face tank every kind of mob below the level of champion with D/P or S/P.

RebelYell.7132:

Milennin.4825:

Playing Thief is about dodging, though. That’s what the class is supposed to do.

Sounds like a pretty bad PvE class, then. You can’t do anything while dodgerolling in this game. There’s no other way to proc evades AFAIK. Being a class “about dodging” works for, say a Bear or Monk Tank, because you’re also able to do your DPS rotation while doing it. Not here.

You have to keep in mind that in GW2, there is no such thing as a “DPS rotation”. All your skills are situational. You can’t go from executing skill 1 then must execute skill 2 before using skill 3.

You can, however, chain some skills to make a sort of combo. But overall, skills are used independent of each other.

Having said that, by actively using your dodge at the right moments, you are actually able to do more DPS than just standing there mashing buttons.

Dead player = zero DPS

GW2 also allows you to cast spells and execute skills while running or strafing. Although there some skills on certain professions that will root you on the spot when you execute the skill, but there are only a few of those AFIAK.

It is also not only thieves that must dodge and evade, it is all the professions in GW2. The thief profession does however capitalize on this more than other professions.

Starbird.4029:

Now one thing I like about WoW, for all it’s failings, is that whatever class I want to level, the early experience is going to be pretty consistent. Difficult or easy, the classes are balanced in such a way that nothing is a horror to level early anymore and most dps specs require a similar amount of effort and time to level with.
.

Are you kidding?? There is an enormous difference in levelling different classes in WoW.

Paladin is sooo easy to level, whereas priest is much more difficult. Mage is in the middle. Shaman is pretty easy. Warrior is very easy. etc..

I chose a thief as my first character, because I needed to dodge and run a lot. I liked the challenge, and not instantly being able to faceroll all the content was very fun for me. But when I leveled some alts, I found that I needed to learn other stuff as well.

I currently have my thief, ele and guardian at level 80. For my thief, I needed to dodge ’n roll. For my ele, I needed to figure out the best ways to use my attunements and synchronize my skills. My guardian had me pay attention to the needs of my teammates, responding to their struggles.

Yes, all the classes are distinctly different right from the start, but I like that. It gives more options for every type of player. If I could use the same playstyle for every character, I would not nearly enjoy my alts as much as I do now.

RebelYell.7132:

Milennin.4825:

Playing Thief is about dodging, though. That’s what the class is supposed to do.

Sounds like a pretty bad PvE class, then. You can’t do anything while dodgerolling in this game. There’s no other way to proc evades AFAIK. Being a class “about dodging” works for, say a Bear or Monk Tank, because you’re also able to do your DPS rotation while doing it. Not here.

Wrong. A Thief gets several skills with built-in dodges and evades. Shortbow 3 fires a crippling arrow while evading backwards. One of their healing skills makes you do a backwards dodgeroll. Roll for Initiative is a backwards dodgeroll that grants initiative (used to use more Thief skills with). Dual Daggers gives you Death Blossom which deals damage, stacks of bleeds and evades all at the same time. Then they also have 2 traits to add extra effects to their dodges.

In addition to all the above points, remember there’s still a lot of balancing to do. GW2 is relatively new, WoW has been out for a long time .

Milennin.4825:

RebelYell.7132:

Milennin.4825:

Playing Thief is about dodging, though. That’s what the class is supposed to do.

Sounds like a pretty bad PvE class, then. You can’t do anything while dodgerolling in this game. There’s no other way to proc evades AFAIK. Being a class “about dodging” works for, say a Bear or Monk Tank, because you’re also able to do your DPS rotation while doing it. Not here.

Wrong. A Thief gets several skills with built-in dodges and evades. Shortbow 3 fires a crippling arrow while evading backwards. One of their healing skills makes you do a backwards dodgeroll. Roll for Initiative is a backwards dodgeroll that grants initiative (used to use more Thief skills with). Dual Daggers gives you Death Blossom which deals damage, stacks of bleeds and evades all at the same time. Then they also have 2 traits to add extra effects to their dodges.

All with greater opportunity costs than Hundred Blades.

I do agree with you that some classes faceroll too easily early game (warriors especially) and some have more trouble. Yeah, warriors are OP in both armor and damage compared to a thief, which makes the thief less attractive to begin with, but my main is a thief, and i love it, regardless of the obvious difference. My warrior facerolls mobs 4 levels higher then him sometimes, which is kind of hilarious. I guess it doesn’t really bother me because i love mobility so my 2 lvl 80s are ele and thief while my lower levels are guardian and warrior, but I can see what your concern is. In the end, what’s in game, is in game, and I wouldn’t count on balancing early game damage and survivability on the top of their list.

Starbird.4029:

Cameirus.8407:

how do you die on a mesmer? seriously, how?

I levelled mine and the only issue I had was finding enough mobs to round up to make it interesting.

You can faceroll multiple vets and champs on a mesmer.

Not sure about thief, I’m not a fan of that type of class, but maybe you need to adapt your playstyle.

Guardians can to an extent just tank stuff, other classes have to move more to avoid dmg.

I mostly mean thief here, to be honest.

It’s not even just survive-ability. My guardian has far more dps (and aoe! ye gods!) from the get go. My thief has fairly weak damage and bugger all AOE until quite late.

Aoe I’ll grant you, but I’ve started a thief and whilst I’m still relatively low, mobs just melt in seconds, and there is enough stealth and avoidance abilities to keep me out of trouble, or run.

remember some skills do more dmg from behind your ememy, so when they do an attack animation, nip round behind and rack up the dmg!

Most of my thief’s leveling experience was running around with shortbow and spamming 2 (cluster bomb). Fast 12 stacks of bleeding is kind of stupid at lower levels (it’s actually still kind of stupid now). Didn’t really even need to dodge because things would just chase me and taking stacks of bleed.

Some characters will always level a bit easier than others. My Necromancer did the first 40 levels easily with Minions to eat up damage, while the last 40 levels were really rough because of the lack of good damage output. My warrior has his Regen signet which makes every fight pretty dumb.