Why Is There a Cap to Condition Damage?

Why Is There a Cap to Condition Damage?

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Posted by: KazNaka.4718

KazNaka.4718

You said it yourself:

“Going forward

Tank vs spike vs physical DPS vs condie DPS. We want to keep making balance changes that allow all classes to have various builds they can use. We don’t want tanks dominating the game, and we don’t want spike builds dominating. It’s healthy to have multiple types of builds in the meta, so we’ll be improving the balance to facilitate a healthy meta."

So why are condition damage builds punished by having to share their bleed stacks on the same mob? Imagine an extreme example: 5 condition damage players in the same party. Each of them does bleeding. The bleed stacks cap at 25, and each of those players pool into the SAME stack. My question is: WHY? Condition damage builds are already inferior to physical damage as it is. Why is this system STILL not changed since launch??

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Posted by: Sericenthe.5310

Sericenthe.5310

Cause it would be overpowered. Wow did the same thing back when I was playing that. For some reason all these games add debuffs and they never work right. A cap proves it isn’t working right.

Seri Kali [Me] – 80 Necromancer -Yak’s Bend

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Posted by: KazNaka.4718

KazNaka.4718

but how is it overpowered? Imagine yourself soloing with a condition damage build. Your DPS is still inferior to physical dmg build is it not?

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Posted by: Otaur.9268

Otaur.9268

You said it yourself:

“Going forward

Tank vs spike vs physical DPS vs condie DPS. We want to keep making balance changes that allow all classes to have various builds they can use. We don’t want tanks dominating the game, and we don’t want spike builds dominating. It’s healthy to have multiple types of builds in the meta, so we’ll be improving the balance to facilitate a healthy meta."

So why are condition damage builds punished by having to share their bleed stacks on the same mob? Imagine an extreme example: 5 condition damage players in the same party. Each of them does bleeding. The bleed stacks cap at 25, and each of those players pool into the SAME stack. My question is: WHY? Condition damage builds are already inferior to physical damage as it is. Why is this system STILL not changed since launch??

According to another thread a long winded answer by Anet came down to 1 thing… Bandwidth

Blackfang’s Demon Alliance [BfDA]

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Posted by: Ulari.9547

Ulari.9547

According to another thread a long winded answer by Anet came down to 1 thing… Bandwidth

Can you link to the ArenaNet post?

I have been questioning the bleed stack limit for more than 5 months, and the only A-Net response I have seen is ’It’s a problem’ from Jon Peters.

Basic Issue:
Five direct damage characters do full damage to a target.
Five condition damage characters don’t… they can’t fit all their bleeds on the target.

Previous Posts Discussing This:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Bleed-Stack-Plan/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Why-does-bleeding-stack-to-only-25/first

Jon Peters’ quote:
JonPeters.5630:
Might as well chime in and say big crowd events where condies are stack capped is also a problem we are investigating.
Jon

Ulari

Ulari

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Posted by: Gisei.5749

Gisei.5749

It’s not even big events, just two condition players gimp each other severely. My thief has no problem maintaining a 25 stack of bleed for 15secs, and can maintain 17 after the spike until the next one. Having one other player who stacks bleed above 8 starts cutting into my damage. What about 20 players each stacking nearly 15 bleeds?

Perhaps they should just cap all damage in a target to 3k/sec. Let’s the vast majority of the player base experience the woes of a condition build. Perhaps the QQ that would erupt will make change.

And yeah. I read about the Bandwidth response. If that is indeed the case, then it is sad. Very sad.

~Sorrow’s Furnace~
Guardian

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Posted by: Rennoko.5731

Rennoko.5731

Its not condition heros either, its any heros that apply incidental bleeds. Mesmer GS clones can knock off good bleeds with bad bleeds. Non-condition warriors/rangers/elementalist all negatively impact a condition player fighting a mob.

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Posted by: digiowl.9620

digiowl.9620

According to another thread a long winded answer by Anet came down to 1 thing… Bandwidth

Can you link to the ArenaNet post?

https://twitter.com/DragonSeasonCom/status/304252471147122689

Likely the full answer will show up once they get to that part of the interview transcript.

http://dragonseason.com/Front/tabid/124/BlogID/5/Default.aspx

Not sure how the heck condition stacks can eat more bandwidth than a bunch of people with fast direct damage rotations tho.

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Posted by: Conncept.7638

Conncept.7638

Cause it would be overpowered. Wow did the same thing back when I was playing that. For some reason all these games add debuffs and they never work right. A cap proves it isn’t working right.

No actually they’ve already stated that it is for technical reasons. Scaling bosses and events could be potentially loaded up with millions of conditions, all of which the server would have to track over your connection.

EDIT: Ninja’d, awesome guy above me has the actual posts.

(edited by Conncept.7638)

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Posted by: DreamOfACure.4382

DreamOfACure.4382

I don’t understand how bandwidth would keep them from simply raising the stack limit to 125 for intensity-conditions and making duration-conditions use the strongest damage and having all weaker ones simply add to its duration.

Glad I’m not a tech guy, this sounds irritating to deal with…

“Bleeding, Poison, Confusion, Torment, they all look delightful on you.”

Lv80s: Guard, Thief, Necro. Renewed my Altaholic’s card on the HoT Hype-Train. Choo choo~

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Posted by: Ulari.9547

Ulari.9547

According to another thread a long winded answer by Anet came down to 1 thing… Bandwidth

Can you link to the ArenaNet post?

https://twitter.com/DragonSeasonCom/status/304252471147122689

So condition builds in this game are just for solo play… really?
And they have no plans to address this?
Pardon the hysterics.. but WHY THE FACE!!! (you know what I mean)

I love the class building in this game, or at least I did when I believed there were options. Now half of the possible options are off the table if you plan to play this game with other people… it’s an MMO right?!?!?!

Wow. Just wow.

Ulari

Ulari

Why Is There a Cap to Condition Damage?

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Posted by: PinCushion.7390

PinCushion.7390

According to another thread a long winded answer by Anet came down to 1 thing… Bandwidth

Can you link to the ArenaNet post?

https://twitter.com/DragonSeasonCom/status/304252471147122689

So condition builds in this game are just for solo play… really?
And they have no plans to address this?
Pardon the hysterics.. but WHY THE FACE!!! (you know what I mean)

I love the class building in this game, or at least I did when I believed there were options. Now half of the possible options are off the table if you plan to play this game with other people… it’s an MMO right?!?!?!

Wow. Just wow.

Ulari

Yeah…I’m speechless too.

So, now to either uninstall or reroll a warrior. Can’t decide.

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Posted by: TsukasaHiiragi.9730

TsukasaHiiragi.9730

Its just another reason why the game is dying, add in a whole host of other reasons too. I game to one conclusion recently about GW2, the games developed had stalled so many times since its original development and passed through different hands, ncsoft finally came to the decision to launch and everyone knew it still had a significant amount of problems – some of the current problems are almost unsolvable in the short-term, this is the reason why Anet/NcSoft are quiet on the subject.

Essentially, Necromancers suffers the most since they are almost purely condition based, sure you could go down the power/crit paths but they are really inferior to other classes which can more or less compete.

protest this travesty of a patch -
Get it taken down -
Do whatever it takes if you care about this game -

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Posted by: Egon Vidar.9125

Egon Vidar.9125

I can’t believe this. Wow. Just.. what the hell?

Yet another reason not to play my Necro.

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Posted by: Panzen.4625

Panzen.4625

Conditions simply need a redesign and/or rebalancing. One person putting up 15+ conditions is simply far too much with the current design.

Of course they could simply decrease the number and duration of bleeds everyone causes and drastically increase bleed scaling so we end up around the same dps. As for poison and fire… they’re simply poor design because at least fire can be locked down by one person permanently (cough eles cough) and thus locked down for everyone else. Maybe those should be switched to intensity scaling, too?
This would probably be much easier to balance/design/program than other solutions.

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Posted by: woeye.2753

woeye.2753

This makes me really sad. I really enjoyed my Necro. Now it’s pretty obvious that is a dead end.

Rerolling warrior? No thanks.

They should post a new player warning at the character creation screen: If you want to participate in PvE please choose on of the following three classes …

Why Is There a Cap to Condition Damage?

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Posted by: Blood Red Arachnid.2493

Blood Red Arachnid.2493

They really can’t come up with a simpler solution than this?

I have an idea: double the damage of conditions, halve their duration, no change in duration to confusion (PVE). Adjust accordingly for very short duration attacks.

There. Now a target can take twice as many bleeds, while making burn and poison use twice as effective. Or, another idea:

Double the bleed cap on champions and dragons and other giant enemies, and only for them.

Requires very little extra data, but provides a temporary solution to help condition builds where they hurt the most.

I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.