Guild Wars 2

Why can’t the game’s story be told exclusively in-game rather than through website short stories and book store novels?

I don’t read your little short stories, ArenaNet, and there isn’t a chance in the Underworld that I will ever buy one of your novels. There was another very popular game that began selling novels to explain the lore and to reveal key plot lines. I don’t play that game anymore because of those cash-grabbing tactics.

As it stands, I haven’t a clue what is happening in-game, in regards to the plot/story and I blame you, ArenaNet.

Books are the better methods to telling the stories of other heroes, as opposed to hijacking our personal stories. Plus it is different to read a novel than in game text. Unless you’d prefer to sit at a campfire and have the old Charr story teller, Forzar Pageturner go “once upon a time” and ramble for a few hours while you could be killing stuff.

You dont have to read them, nor is it ever going to be needed to understand the GW world, its just for those who want to get an indepth story about some aspect of it.
Maybe you just dont even care about the lore anyways? Not that you have to.

There’s nothing better in the world to tell a story than a good novel. Neither game nor movie, because the Movie’s in your head while you’re reading.

So you’d prefer some huge walls of text on npcs instead? No thanks.

Actually you’re way off base here OP.

The story told in the books is not the story told in the game. It’s not the story told in Guild Wars 1 either. It’s the story that tells how Guild Wars 1 became Guild Wars 2. The story of Destiny’s Edge, the only thing that pertains directly to GW 2 is told in game.

Of course, if you’re not paying attention you won’t see that.

Much of the history and lore found in the books can be found in game as well. If you look for it,. it’s there. If you ignore it…well…basically there’s no substance to your complaint.

maddoctor.2738:

So you’d prefer some huge walls of text on npcs instead? No thanks.

No. I would prefer well-directed NPC cutscenes with lots of audio and video. I would also prefer in-game books that could be added to a master lexicon and accessible from an in-game menu.

While I agree that the short stories should be in game as well, knowing that they are there, refusing to read them and then blaming the creators that you didn’t read them is just plain stupid. If you didn’t know they were there that would be one thing, but there is no one to blame but you for not reading them. As for the books, if you don’t want to read them, don’t read them, the plot doesn’t hinge on them at all.

I want to read how in heck the Charr got to where they are. Norn, Humans, the Pale Tree.. I find continuity and flow from what I saw in GW1.

Charr? last I saw, they were using animals as siege engines and their heavy hitters were magic and fire users, not a shred of the tech prowess shown here.
Its like it just appeared out of the nether, and in a very short time Charr have gone from fairly primitive shamanism to the most advanced industrial society on Tyria. Helicopter?

It is just jarring and unexplainable. I want to read how.

Nothing in the novels and short stories are necessary to enjoy the game or connect pieces of lore. They’re there for people who enjoy a good read and for lore junkies who can’t get enough (aka me!). Sea of Sorrows had very few spoilers about parts of the game compared to Ghosts of Ascalon and Destiny’s Edge, and it’s most likely because I read those two prior to the game’s launch when we knew very little about Guild Wars 2 lore.

My opinion~
Take it with a lump of salt.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_movement_of_the_world

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ecology_of_the_Charr

Those two should help @Teofa, but essentially, when they overthrew the flame legion the charr went through a period where they rejected magic completely, and this brought on a full scale industrial revolution building weapons of war in order to just keep up with magic users. Imagine this as a world where instead of ignoring DaVinci’s helicopter design, it was embraced on and tested until it succeeded because that was the key to staying alive

Dra Keln.2015:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_movement_of_the_world

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ecology_of_the_Charr

Those two should help @Teofa, but essentially, when they overthrew the flame legion the charr went through a period where they rejected magic completely, and this brought on a full scale industrial revolution building weapons of war in order to just keep up with magic users. Imagine this as a world where instead of ignoring DaVinci’s helicopter design, it was embraced on and tested until it succeeded because that was the key to staying alive

I have read those, of course. Many times. Where is this industrial Revolution mentioned? From no firearms at all to heavier than air flight and armored vehicles in 250 years is a bit more than a revolution. I find this snippet in The Ecology of the Charr.

, “the Iron (Legion) through mechanical creations and siege towers,”

Looking up the Iron Legion does not add much more to that.

The story of the Charr DaVinci (or whatever it was) that drove this incredible racial crusade to industrial prominance needs to be written.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Dra Keln.2015:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_movement_of_the_world

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ecology_of_the_Charr

Those two should help @Teofa, but essentially, when they overthrew the flame legion the charr went through a period where they rejected magic completely, and this brought on a full scale industrial revolution building weapons of war in order to just keep up with magic users. Imagine this as a world where instead of ignoring DaVinci’s helicopter design, it was embraced on and tested until it succeeded because that was the key to staying alive

I have read those, of course. Many times. Where is this industrial Revolution mentioned? From no firearms at all to heavier than air flight and armored vehicles in 250 years is a bit more than a revolution. I find this snippet in The Ecology of the Charr.

, “the Iron (Legion) through mechanical creations and siege towers,”

Looking up the Iron Legion does not add much more to that.

The story of the Charr DaVinci (or whatever it was) that drove this incredible racial crusade to industrial prominance needs to be written.

You have not studied the renaissance much have you?
(A) The renaissance age was not the age of invention, it was an age of philosophy which opened the world to success and pursuit, which lead to the age of invention hundreds of years later. In fact the only major invention of the renaissance was the printing press.
(B) There was no single leader of the renaissance, especially not Leonardo. And while we may have key philosophers and artists who are studied and remembered more than most, the whole point of it was the opening of the world for everyone to have pursuits at all.
© When the age of invention did finally come along (the industrial revolution) it took well less than 250 years to go from horse-and-cart and an abacus to manned flight and computers.

However, I do agree that the charr story (and many stories within the game) are incomplete, with or without these short stories and books. And I would appreciate actual in-game content which allows us to experience these stories.

Elbegast.6970:

Why can’t the game’s story be told exclusively in-game rather than through website short stories and book store novels?

I don’t read your little short stories, ArenaNet, and there isn’t a chance in the Underworld that I will ever buy one of your novels. There was another very popular game that began selling novels to explain the lore and to reveal key plot lines. I don’t play that game anymore because of those cash-grabbing tactics.

As it stands, I haven’t a clue what is happening in-game, in regards to the plot/story and I blame you, ArenaNet.

There isnt anything in the novels that isnt explained in game sufficantly to explain the events and their impact. This is particularly the case with Destiny’s Edge. Hell, the Scavanger Hunt gives several important points on the story behind Sea of Sorrows.

Novels and short story’s allow a different method of storytelling that wouldn’t be as easily in game. Take Ellen’s new short story. Sure they could tell you in game that she lost her parents at sea as a kid but it wouldnt paint the same picture.

There was an interesting interview with several of the narative design people recently that pretty much said that these stories are ones they intent to tell in game but need to find the right way to. Marjory or Braham arent just going to recount in detail key turning points in their lives without reference and when they have only just met you. Again, they wont be told in the same way and with the ‘at the moment’ detail you can get in the novels or the short stories but the story will probably be told.

The other thing to consider is resource allocation. The writing of a short story takes one person who may have the time spare to write it. The novels are mostly written by novelists. Ree wrote one and Jeff co wrote one but I dont think it came out of their game development job time much. Actually having voiced NPC conversations to transmit the same quantity of story and with the same detail just isn’t pratical.

I would like to see more lore ingame. However what we get from the short stories (so far) and the novels wouldnt have the same ‘emotion’ to it as you get in the written media of a novel/short story. One type of media doesnt exclude the other. It also needs to be skipable for those with no interest.

I would like the idea of collectable knowledge. Having books similar to the ones in ebonhawke which recount events and important details of the world of Tyria would be fantastic.

Novels I can understand. The short stories I suspect are a product of the bimonthly Living Story updates. Updating the Living Story so often leaves less time to hire voice actors, and it would probably be a waste of money pay someone to deliver lore through voice when it’s going to be all but forgotten in a month anyway.

maddoctor.2738:

So you’d prefer some huge walls of text on npcs instead? No thanks.

No, I’d prefer voiced dialogue.

darkace.8925:

Novels I can understand. The short stories I suspect are a product of the bimonthly Living Story updates. Updating the Living Story so often leaves less time to hire voice actors, and it would probably be a waste of money pay someone to deliver lore through voice when it’s going to be all but forgotten in a month anyway.

maddoctor.2738:

So you’d prefer some huge walls of text on npcs instead? No thanks.

No, I’d prefer voiced dialogue.

Firstly, the LS teams have a four month production cycle which is plenty of time to handle VA.

Secondly, the short story is done as an addition by someone who has no role in the programing side of the game. Shes a narative designer.

Thirdly, VA work takes alot more time, resources, work, money and people to produce so naturally they arent going to be able to do as much if they VA everything. Also it adds the issue of telling detail in story without forcing players who arent actually interested to stand around and listen to NPC’s drone on.

People need to be realistic in their expectations. The story points in the short stories will come into the game as the story of the NPCs expand but the reality is that the more VA a peice of ingame lore has, the less detail we will get on the lore.

We really lose nothing ingame from having the short stories. Its not like Angel is leaving stuff out of the game because she is writing the short stories. This is something extra she is doing.

Conncept.7638:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Dra Keln.2015:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_movement_of_the_world

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ecology_of_the_Charr

Those two should help @Teofa, but essentially, when they overthrew the flame legion the charr went through a period where they rejected magic completely, and this brought on a full scale industrial revolution building weapons of war in order to just keep up with magic users. Imagine this as a world where instead of ignoring DaVinci’s helicopter design, it was embraced on and tested until it succeeded because that was the key to staying alive

I have read those, of course. Many times. Where is this industrial Revolution mentioned? From no firearms at all to heavier than air flight and armored vehicles in 250 years is a bit more than a revolution. I find this snippet in The Ecology of the Charr.

, “the Iron (Legion) through mechanical creations and siege towers,”

Looking up the Iron Legion does not add much more to that.

The story of the Charr DaVinci (or whatever it was) that drove this incredible racial crusade to industrial prominance needs to be written.

You have not studied the renaissance much have you?
(A) The renaissance age was not the age of invention, it was an age of philosophy which opened the world to success and pursuit, which lead to the age of invention hundreds of years later. In fact the only major invention of the renaissance was the printing press.
(B) There was no single leader of the renaissance, especially not Leonardo. And while we may have key philosophers and artists who are studied and remembered more than most, the whole point of it was the opening of the world for everyone to have pursuits at all.
© When the age of invention did finally come along (the industrial revolution) it took well less than 250 years to go from horse-and-cart and an abacus to manned flight and computers.

However, I do agree that the charr story (and many stories within the game) are incomplete, with or without these short stories and books. And I would appreciate actual in-game content which allows us to experience these stories.

Please.. I’m more than aware of our own history. The DaVinci comment was in reference to the person I quoted. We are not talking renaissance or age of invention. The charr went from hunters with Iron, possibly steel weapons and armor to armored vehicles in 250 years. That is something that cannot be explained in the context of our experiences on this world. It took centuries for us to do the same. It is a quantum leap, and a huge one.

Invention and technology progress on Invention and technology. Connections, infrastructure, applications, and the more of it there is, the faster the progress is. Abacus to Computer required huge progress in electronics, mathematics, manufacturing, resource refining, chemistry, transportation, information sharing and so on. All of those centuries of progress from the introduction of the Abacus. Undoubtedly the Abacus drove some of that progress.. that’s how it works. Unfortunately, there is not a lot of evidence of Charr having any greater tech than that prevalent in our own “Dark Ages”, and I use that term loosely to describe the Charr under Shaman rule.

Charr were warriors, and any indication of developing technology would have been raining destruction onto Ascalon. It wasn’t. They used a magic cauldron. They used trained animals/insects. No evidence of industry beyond forging armor and weapons.

So. Something VERY big happened in 250 years. Some lore would be nice.

Part of this was that they turned away from magic big time after the flame legion went down. Another part I believe came from the Charr discovering abandoned old dwarven storehouses with blackpower. Thats what started off their revolution in tech.

Also to be fair, we didnt actually see much of the Iron Legion in GW1. What we see in GW:EN is Blood Legion (and it sounds like they still specialise in warbeasts including seige devourers) while early Prophecies is mostly Flame Legion. Though they were certainly behind humans at the time, they may have had enough of the basics to take what they recovered from the dwarves and start their own thing.

I agree though its something it would be nice to have alot more information about.

Ghosts of ascalon was a brilliant novel. I definitely recommend it.

Lutinz.6915:

Part of this was that they turned away from magic big time after the flame legion went down. Another part I believe came from the Charr discovering abandoned old dwarven storehouses with blackpower. Thats what started off their revolution in tech.

Also to be fair, we didnt actually see much of the Iron Legion in GW1. What we see in GW:EN is Blood Legion (and it sounds like they still specialise in warbeasts including seige devourers) while early Prophecies is mostly Flame Legion. Though they were certainly behind humans at the time, they may have had enough of the basics to take what they recovered from the dwarves and start their own thing.

I agree though its something it would be nice to have alot more information about.

Hadn’t thought of them looting dwarven knowledge and artifacts. Thank you. With the dwarves all off on the destroyer crusade, it would have been just sitting around to pick up. I’ve always considered the dwarves to be the industrial heavies of GW1, and it makes sense for the Charr to pick up where they left off. The Norn wouldn’t care, its not Norn, and the humans far too hard pressed and recalled to Ascalon or rebuilding Kryta.

Thank you. This is the kind of nugget I was looking for. Dwarves would have had blackpowder, metallurgy, casting and forging, advanced siege engines, transportation and conveyor systems, gearing and pulley systems, all the stuff to jumpstart what the charr did.. and all of that visible in GW1. Really nice catch.

ha ha, I can almost see the wheels turning in their Evil charr heads as they looked at piles of stuff that goes boom, dwarven siege sleds, mine carts and pulley systems.. oh yes.

“See, we could make a bigger cart thing, with wheels that dont need those rails. Put one of those machines that moves the ore around on the cart. Make a little thrower thing to throw these barrels of boom powder. You thinkin what I’m thinkin?”

The novels, whilst not brilliantly written, are better than most tie-in novels and worth a read as extra for lore purposes. I have no big issue with them. And Logan doesn’t annoy me in the book like he annoys me in the game…

The website stories are bad beyond belief. You have missed out on nothing by skipping them.

I do agree about more lore should be in game and less on Wiki or books or what-have-you

Elbegast.6970:

I don’t read your little short stories, ArenaNet, and there isn’t a chance in the Underworld that I will ever buy one of your novels. There was another very popular game that began selling novels to explain the lore and to reveal key plot lines. I don’t play that game anymore because of those cash-grabbing tactics

Guys, he’s not playing that game anymore. You keep this vile, profit-driven novel business up and he might not play this one. Got it guys… Guys?

Really, I enjoy the books and they don’t have much to do with the main plot of the game (which would be the living story as of late).

What I don’t enjoy is that short stories that go up on the website, I never bother to read them because I think it’s ridiculous that this information is only being released on the website and not in the actual game >.<

Seriously Anet, can’t you make it a cutscene or something?

This is definitely something worthwhile – maybe items which can be opened and could act as ingame books, complete with UI? That would really help in differentiating what knowledge is available from an in-character perspective in Tyria and what is not from the player’s perspective.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Conncept.7638:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Dra Keln.2015:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_movement_of_the_world

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ecology_of_the_Charr

Those two should help @Teofa, but essentially, when they overthrew the flame legion the charr went through a period where they rejected magic completely, and this brought on a full scale industrial revolution building weapons of war in order to just keep up with magic users. Imagine this as a world where instead of ignoring DaVinci’s helicopter design, it was embraced on and tested until it succeeded because that was the key to staying alive

I have read those, of course. Many times. Where is this industrial Revolution mentioned? From no firearms at all to heavier than air flight and armored vehicles in 250 years is a bit more than a revolution. I find this snippet in The Ecology of the Charr.

, “the Iron (Legion) through mechanical creations and siege towers,”

Looking up the Iron Legion does not add much more to that.

The story of the Charr DaVinci (or whatever it was) that drove this incredible racial crusade to industrial prominance needs to be written.

You have not studied the renaissance much have you?
(A) The renaissance age was not the age of invention, it was an age of philosophy which opened the world to success and pursuit, which lead to the age of invention hundreds of years later. In fact the only major invention of the renaissance was the printing press.
(B) There was no single leader of the renaissance, especially not Leonardo. And while we may have key philosophers and artists who are studied and remembered more than most, the whole point of it was the opening of the world for everyone to have pursuits at all.
© When the age of invention did finally come along (the industrial revolution) it took well less than 250 years to go from horse-and-cart and an abacus to manned flight and computers.

However, I do agree that the charr story (and many stories within the game) are incomplete, with or without these short stories and books. And I would appreciate actual in-game content which allows us to experience these stories.

Please.. I’m more than aware of our own history. The DaVinci comment was in reference to the person I quoted. We are not talking renaissance or age of invention. The charr went from hunters with Iron, possibly steel weapons and armor to armored vehicles in 250 years. That is something that cannot be explained in the context of our experiences on this world. It took centuries for us to do the same. It is a quantum leap, and a huge one.

Invention and technology progress on Invention and technology. Connections, infrastructure, applications, and the more of it there is, the faster the progress is. Abacus to Computer required huge progress in electronics, mathematics, manufacturing, resource refining, chemistry, transportation, information sharing and so on. All of those centuries of progress from the introduction of the Abacus. Undoubtedly the Abacus drove some of that progress.. that’s how it works. Unfortunately, there is not a lot of evidence of Charr having any greater tech than that prevalent in our own “Dark Ages”, and I use that term loosely to describe the Charr under Shaman rule.

Charr were warriors, and any indication of developing technology would have been raining destruction onto Ascalon. It wasn’t. They used a magic cauldron. They used trained animals/insects. No evidence of industry beyond forging armor and weapons.

So. Something VERY big happened in 250 years. Some lore would be nice.

Not denying that something had to happen, some renaissance-like movement among the charr, or that the charr story has holes in it. But you made it sound like you were either looking for a certain character or a certain single event, neither of which seem likely nor necessary. Second, your claim that 250 years is unlikely is really off base, there are fully modernized and scientifically progressive countries now, in the real world, which only 250 years ago still lived largely off subsistence.