Guild Wars 2

If you’ve spent a lot of time in Lion’s Arch, your map chat is inevitably filled with the same old complaints about dungeons, about Orr, about WvW. Recently, it’s increasingly easier to see a common theme about these complaints. People.

People in this game sounds like a fantastic bunch. Sit in Lion’s Arch for an hour and hear the stories for yourself. My favorites are always about the fresh level 80s returning from their first trips to Orr. Mobs are too tough, Respawns are too fast, and only recently, people are too unhelpful.

Remember Halloween in Lion’s Arch? Remember LFM MK? Level 80s high dps ONLY. Remember the first thing you have to do as the PuG in a group of guildies? Take screenshots. Remember the reason why commanders keep quiet more often than not? Spies watching their every command. Most of us do, because in Guild Wars 2, TRUST is not a commodity. Trust is an endless tonic in a trick-or-treat bag. Trust is a Dusk from Mystic Forge. Trust seems to have evaporated like the Human Gods of Tyria.

Guild Wars 2 is about open access. The price we all pay for open access is people. We run into good people, we run into bad people. It’s only once you enter Orr, you will see a lot more bad people than good people. Orr forces the unprepared players to keep running for their lives. Orr pushes desperate players to run toward others for help. Orr gives excuse for the careful players to get out of the way.

When Joe the Mighty is being chased by a pack of Risen and running for help, he’ll find others unmoved by his plight, completely ignoring him and continue on their way. More often, he’ll see people rapidly running away from him like he’s a scourge of mankind. It is only when the Risens are stomping the life out of Joe, does he finally see packs of players running at him, plucking the flowers next to his soon to be crushed face and dash away as quickly as they came.

One week later, Joe the Mighty spots a node of Orichalcum entering his map range. As he zigzags toward his goal, he sees a stranger in the motley armor and ugly weapon running from the direction of the node towards him. “Everyone, COME!” That’s Joe’s cue to hop on the ledge and get out of the way as the train of Risen proceeds to give the stranger a warm welcome to Orr. With his Omnombar ticking down, Joe takes this opportunity that will save him two minutes and harvests the unguarded Orichalcum node unintentionally cleared by the hapless noob. As Joe finishes harvesting and the stranger gets his face stomped into the dirt, someone shouted in mapchat, PLINX! Thus, the cycle begins anew.

Orr is all about farm plinx event Because this game is farm in the pure essence.
The mantra “Swing a sword again” is become “farm for a skin (or legendary) again”.

EDIT: Players involved in farm actions tend to be very unpleasant

I think we can all agree that people are selfish and greedy. If it were up to me, I’d wipe us off this planet. That being said, all you can do is be a decent person yourself. Which I try to do everywhere I am. Including my time spent playing with others in GW2.

Orr is annoying, that’s all. The players won’t change, the game can.

I just wish there could be an end-game zone like Queensdale. <3

Orr is a nasty and tough place. Then again, what happens in most games? People complain that the ending places are not a challenge. Orr makes the dragons look powerful. It show Pact members struggling to hold a place there. You get a sense that this is a hostile place and the Pact can’t simply roll all over the Risen. You always have a sense of dread and having to keep on your toes. If that’s what they went for, they succeeded.

I always come to the aid of others when they’re reasonably nearby and I have no qualms about taking a quick break to help someone with a quest, event or skill challenge.

After maxing out gold, rares, pve and pvp in GW1 pretty much all I did was do free runs, help newbs and give away gold.

sounds like you play in a crappy server. mine couldn’t be friendlier.

Orr brings out the worst, because it’s a constant source of annoyance. Annoyed people are bitter and cranky.
Once players get used to Orr, the difficulty (if they found it difficult) is gone; but the annoyance level stays.

Put people in a hot room with little room to move, they get cranky and on edge. Put people in a tightly packed store with things and others bumping into them constantly, they get annoyed.
This is human nature; and Orr pushes those buttons.

At least, that’s how I see it.

hmmm seems to me that if the same complaints are always surfacing then they might be justified.

as for Orr, if I stopped every time i saw someone being chased by mobs i’d never get anywhere. the fastest way to get around is to ignore mobs and run through them. stopping just makes everything so much worse.

if someone asks for help or i notice they have low hp or are downed, i’ll help out, but otherwise i assume they are doing the same thing i’m doing.

I believe this will end up with “I lost my faith In humankind” or similars, so I’ll just tell you this:
If you want a better online gaming experience, community-wise: AVOID CONVERSATIONS IN PUBLIC CHAT. Because you will opening yourself to the public, wich means: To “any sort of people”. (i.e: It’s self-explanatory). So If you want someone to chat with or anything else… do so with your guild members only. But since this Is about player interaction with others… sadly, this will tend to happen quite often. It’s all about making your part and being satisfied by doing so.

BrunoBRS.5178:

sounds like you play in a crappy server. mine couldn’t be friendlier.

Indeed. Was just going to say the same thing.

I’ve had situations where I’m using a stoneskin and yelling “TRAIN!!!” as I’m trying to get from WP to WP in Orr and suddenly am overwhelmed by one too many walking dead guys — and 9 times out of 10 I’ll have some kind soul swoop in and rescue me (I always try to do the same too). It’s been something that has been overwhelmingly refreshing on GW2 — folks genuinely look out for each other.

NB: I always stop if someone gets stuck in my train and help — but want to give the choo choo heads up so nobody does!

I rarely go to Orr, i got peed off with all the undead and their annoying stun attacks, but that said i always help out people when im in the area. I like to play the hero, even it it means my own death to save them. That’s the only fun i have in end game these days. I’ve pretty much done everything. Harvesting is boring and i only do it if i happen to pass some node by chance. I don’t go out of my way to find them.

The more people complain how hard is Orr, the more I like it. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t like the many bugs and bugged events, like those trebuchets in Malchor’s leap event that shoot through walls, when will they fix that? Or the endlesley respawning trebuchets in the Temple of Lyssa, which is not doable without at least 20 people.

Orr has many issues and someday I hope they will fix them. But the concept idea is ok. It’s supposed to be hard and anoying, it’s level 80 warzone, you are supposed to learn to survive on your own without buddies who will rez you.

Orr makes your character more resilient, tougher and more self dependant. It teaches you, that you can’t just dance through the mobs, because they are too many and have too much cc abillities.

Once you survive Orr, and repeteadly go back to run with the pact force events, for me the focal point of the story of GW2 reveals. It gives you the percpective of the game as the designers have visioned it.

And anyway in Wvwvw combat is more lethal. Orr is kinder garden compared to WvWw , other players will down you faster than any mob of Risen ever could.

I would add that it’s not always possible to help out the guy who isn’t prepared for the area and is leading a train of adds towards you. I’m only lvl 30, but have been trashed at once when I tried it and was overwhelmed, and another time when I tried to mind my own business and the mobs all aggro’d on me. So yeah, I tend to help folks and appreciate folks who help me, but the guy who is running like crazy and training mobs to me might get a wide berth.

Orr is just so annoying to run around in, to many undead each with pulls, chills, and more pulls. The events happen way to often like to defend or take back a temple. Those have to have longer cool downs because players cannot go back to lesser zones to do them because they are so annoying and offer no reward to do so.

Sounds like server issue to me. Sorry to hear you have people like that on your server.

Only thing I can relate to is the Halloween thing and that was when I was stuck in overflow lol.

When I was on my server wasnt like that.

Newbies dying in Orr isn’t a problem (it happens far too little). Experienced players not dying, is the problem. When you can just run through the mobs to save time, that’s wrong. When you can camp the spawnpoints at Shelter’s, that’s wrong. Make the risen strong. Make them OP. Make us cower behind the walls when they attack, make us inch forward through Orr if we want to survive. Make it so that most players won’t dare use their MF gear.

I dare say, if players have a hard time surviving, then they might, just might, try working together.

Honestly, in my individual experience, I was disappointed in Orr by 1. lack of players, I was under the impression that many people were there as most of the lower zones were empty yet it doesnt seem so and 2. lack of big boss fights, I thought it was the final zone and there would be alot of huge fights going on, yet most of the champions I see are pretty lame. Hopefully the next high level zone they release will be more epic.

I must be really lucky.

Orr wasnt hard at all and the few moments I needed help I had from random strangers.

Well, maybe because Im properlg speccd and fought my way in?
No idea.

Glass cannons are just the bane of this game.

I often try to help other players who seem to be struggling in Orr. Sometimes I’d see a player get overwhelmed or see his/her face being beaten in by a veteran and it is satisfying to know they you saved a life, not IRL but you get the point.

I think the problem with Orr is just crummy zone design. They left out the “fun” and replaced it with PITA.

I generally find decent people. Actually, aside from the bots, I don’t recall ever finding a not-decent person there. More than an hour there, I admit I’m often wanting to just quit.

I used to save people. I quit when the number of bots I’d see was vastly greater than the number of players. Now, I only help those who I either know aren’t bots or say something.

But when someone is running through with a pack of mobs on them, I don’t see it as a bad thing. The first thing I think is “ooh, a nicely rounded up pack of mobs” as I proceed to AoE it down.

Also, there is nothing wrong with Orr. Trying to run though the zone? Learn when to dodge.

The biggest problem with ORE is the number of blocked WPTs

For [censored] sake the WPTS are meant for traveling STOP BLOCKING THEM ANET

Tell me its contested but if I want to port into a mob fest LET ME!

Healix.5819:

But when someone is running through with a pack of mobs on them, I don’t see it as a bad thing. The first thing I think is “ooh, a nicely rounded up pack of mobs” as I proceed to AoE it down.

This made me chuckle .. lol, thank you! Nice way to start my day .. and that was probably me on a couple of occassions you saw running by. (thank you from the bottom of my pink high heels for the aoe).

The community is pretty awesome. Orr just brings out some of the people with (for lack other accurate description) no life who live to farm and be abrasive. Even still Orr isn’t hard to deal with anymore it’s just hard to stomach the repetition. Hopefully the upcoming dungeon adds better 80 content.

Orr is not difficult nor it is interesting. It’s frustrating because the game throws artifical challenge at you in the form of monsters that pull, stun, poison, burn, aoe, heal themselves, attack in big numbers and respawn the very second you killed them. They’re the epitome of everything that is wrong with this game’s enemy system.

Orr is designed in a way that you can never solo your way through it without getting constantly mobbed and dying which in itself is a source of annoyance if you don’t have any friends who can play at the same time as you. This anger factor is tripled by the fact that Orr is the only place where you can and must grind to get enough gold for things you actually want to do.

Other players become the enemy that you can’t live without. You need the zerg so the game spawns high amount of mobs during events and you need the party so you get a decent chance at loot but you wish they would just all go AFK so you could finally tag enough mobs to get rewarded and be done with the place till your little bag of gold starts depleting again.

As much as I love helping out people, I started to notice the curse of Orr taking an effect on my general mood as well. When I’m jumping into the fray for the 50th time and the fellow I just saved runs past me to a nod then ports away for the 50th time it’s starting to rub me the wrong way. Especially since I usually get mobbed afterwards by stuff they aggroed and inevitably die.

The biggest design fail with Orr, most high level – high-density maps and dungeons is that everyone just started stacking toughness and vitality. There are no tanks, no damage dealers, no healers. No aggro management either. Which means that the only valid playstyle is a defensive one. I’m not expecting a glass cannon to go around and solo everything but a little more variety and laxity would be much appreciated. No matter what class you roll, it’s always “you could get this and that stat but only after you have X and Y amount of tough/vit or you’re going to die if you have more than one mob breathing down on your neck”.

It matters not if I play solo or with a group. We can’t form a strategy to make monsters target specific players while certain folk heal and the rest work together on pumping out direct damage, combo fields, utility, traps, crowd control, whatever. No. You’re on your own and if the enemy targeted you while you have a non-defensive build then enjoy your kitten getting kicked while praying that someone can help you rally before getting killed.

The latter problem is present everywhere in the game. It’s just much more pronounced and easier to notice in Orr, home of the Risen lolzerg fest.

That’s because Orr sucks period. No one likes it, they’re only there because that’s where you have to go to get level 80 things.

Even the areas next to Orr are full of enemies that respawn seconds after they’re killed and have annoying abilities. If it were actually a good idea to fight the enemies in Orr people would. But because they respawn instantly why bother?

I help other players out all the time and it’s not cause I’m a nice guy. If you’re going to tank a group of mobs for me so I can aoe them down and collect loot that works for me. If it happens to save your kitten that is just an unintended side effect.

I’m not the best player in the world, let me start by saying that. But honestly, I find Orr fun. It’s challenging to the point that I do die on occasion, but it’s not frustrating. Then again, I tend to just roam the map gathering nodes and doing nearby events, rather than playing the karma train game. And I really do think it must be a problem with the server you’re on, because the people on Tarnished Coast are fantastic. I can’t think of a single instance where I got in over my head that someone didn’t come running to help me out. Maybe you just need a server change.

On Desolation, I have no complaints about the community and the chats. However, I agree that Orr brings out the worst in people. I think it’s because Orr is a farm area, so people ditch the nicety and go for maximum efficiency. And like in RL, maximizing efficiency means sacrificing humanity. Even though I myself always try to help when I’m able, I have seen some things happen in Orr that I have not seen in other areas.

For example: I had just finished a skill point when I saw another player rushing toward it. There were some risen near the skill point, so I stayed around for a few more seconds to kill 2 risen to give that other player faster access to the skill point. However, I did not see the 4 mobs he had running behind him. He ran past me, his fanclub attacked me, and he just went to the skillpoint and ignored me and my suddenly less-than-fair fight.

This was a first in my 250 hours of playing – happened two days ago. Didnt feel like getting mad though. I just ran back to him, turned my invisibility on and vanished off a cliff. Didnt look back.

You get what you give. You’re being a jerk when I’m trying to play nice? Fine, then I’ll be a jerk too. But this is rare though. Most people fortunately appreciate me being a little bit more helpful, and that goes a long way in improving the community.

WasAGuest.4973:

Orr brings out the worst, because it’s a constant source of annoyance. Annoyed people are bitter and cranky.
Once players get used to Orr, the difficulty (if they found it difficult) is gone; but the annoyance level stays.

Put people in a hot room with little room to move, they get cranky and on edge. Put people in a tightly packed store with things and others bumping into them constantly, they get annoyed.
This is human nature; and Orr pushes those buttons.

At least, that’s how I see it.

This and a million times over this. I think the more time people spend in Orr the more annoying the place becomes. My first few times through it I actually enjoyed the ‘challenge’ of it. However, the longer I’ve been there the more it makes me want to vomit at how the zone is designed from layout to NPC behavior. It’s one of the reasons I hated the open world in SW:TOR. Anyway, my biggest pet peeve there is when I kill a mob near a resource node and some idiot trains 2 or 3 mobs into my damage so I get aggro, farms the node and then runs off. kitten those people.

In all areas I would stop and help, but in Orr, when you stop running you ll just die and pay 3 silver as a fine (waypoint + armor repair). Especially the first parts of Orr are too much. There is no safe place and you ll die many times exploring it. I prefer cursed shore and the place before that. Slightly less mobs and a couple more fortresses.

The problem is that many ‘safe’ places are actually not safe at all, many times they are overrun with events happening and you ll come back to a death character. Best thing you can do is relog or go to the mist.

Anyway, the core of my bla is that you can’t stop to help people because 2 mobs become 3,4,…8, …. too much quickly. You can’t resurrect people, because the stream of mobs will get you killed. How many times I got killed myself resing people. Only downed I try to rescue.

Sadly, as overly dramatic as the OP makes it sound this is EXACTLY what goes on in Orr.

There’s even a video on youtube explaining how to gather orichal’ fast in Orr and he explains it’s best to just ignore the mobs and train them about, even running over a couple of bystanders with his dozen-mob trains and leaving their corpse to rot as he does so.

I’ve seen it with my own eyes many times and even been on the receiving end (Though yet to ever die to a mob train, it can be inconvenient suddenly having 6-8 more mobs dropped on your head without warning as some OP warrior or guardian scuttles past you with all the attentiveness of a bot, undead gnawing on his ankle).

Brilliant post :P
I could really feel Joe’s suffering reading through these passages!

hahahaha! OP funny story

I think it might be a server thing though, just last night my husband and I was talking about how Orr really brings people together because you need people in Orr.
There is very much a feeling of Band of Brothers on our server.
We have lost count of how many random strangers have helped us out and how many random people we have helped get skill points , vistas, ressed etc.
We ran into several guilds just yesterday, doing stuff together and chatting up a storm in /say.
Orr is a war zone and it does have that sense of urgency and danger. No safe spots and a lack of accessible waypoints. Also Malchor’s Leap has such a stunning design that I wish I could get more time to take screens

Great post lol , mighty joe has seen the light at last ! Everyone COME!

Or isnt hard but it is annoying and that isnt what the mood should be for end zone runs.
Players being pushed over the edge because of constant cc or repsawn or contested temples.
It really makes the mood fragile. Then Anet changes mob behavior that hits us again.
Dont forget the surroundings – Orr is just dull and dreary and isnt even picturesque in that sense. If it was it would be a little easier but it isnt. Or if it was a challenge but it isnt it is just bad in my opinion and this is were are to be.
All I can say run and dont stop ever till your done with orr.

Although i haven’t been in Orr for well over a week with any of my toons, i remember many times ppl complaining about how much they hated the area – personally, i love Orr and how difficult it can be sometimes.
Straits of Devastation and Malchor’s Leap are my favorite maps – great map design and i like the map’s difficulty mob wise.

Player’s selfishness has always been present in most other mmo’s i’ve played and that’s actually a player “problem”. If anything, GW2 is way more friendly with the personal nodes and loot and i see ppl helping each other when overwhelmed by mobs more often than not.

But yes, sometimes i’d see ppl running past and dropping aggro on some poor unaware soul without caring – you can’t really stop things like this… all you can do is become more aware of your surroundings and use these situations as… “training excercises”

The quality of the community will depend on the server you play on. There will be a certain percentage of people who are pricks: who troll map hat, don’t res strangers, train mobs on others and what not. There will also be a percentage that goes out of their way to randomly share all node locations, help people with SP, personally show people the paths to vista, and make map chat a friendly environment. The ratio of pricks/polite peeps depend on luck and your server. It has little to do with the map.

While we’re on the “Orr is poorly designed” topic again, it should be a challenging place to navigate. No, it’s not challenging in the sense that death and tough encounters lie around every corner. Yes, it’s challenging in that you have to utilize a variety of skills and mind your surroundings/cooldowns if you wanna travel from A to B efficiently. You are wading through an active warzone: players who thoughtfully use their anti-disable utilities should be rewarded more than players who expect they can leave their character on autorun while alt-tabbed to YouTube.

Orr is both challenging and funny.
It’s challenging since advancement is difficult for the newly level capped player with gear and trait tree that make him kill slow and survive less, but this is the place to go.

Nevertheless, after an hour and a half of dying and making some progress, jumping into other groups events, I did get somewhat better gear, unlocked 3 more waypoints, and realized I still have lots of hours of play.

Why was it funny?
When I made it to 80, all I wanted was to unlock all the waypints near all the instance Entrances so I don’t keep groups waiting while I discover waypoints.
I tried to get from Fort Trinity to Conquest Marina and then to Rally waypoint via the sea. At the time I got near the Marina waypoint, I had like 15 sharks tailing me, only to get out of the water where there were 15 zombies waiting.
It looked like a mix of a funny cartoon and a bad zombie movie, such as if you could look at a toon mouse fleeing from a horde of cats, and then a transition to a horror movie where zombies spawn from all over.
At the thaught of this “brave” runaway I laughed so hard that I couldn’t open my eyes and I didn’t see I was stuck with what seemed like 20 zombies preparing for a meal.
I rallied at the Marine only to start fleeing from the sharks again.

So what if it’s a bit difficult at the moment? overcoming difficulties is fun, and it’s not like you had to work your way through a real life 4 year challenge. What’s the fuss about?
Rally, repair, and try again.

After the same thing happens to you 15 more times come back and tell us if it’s still funny omerk.

I only have good stories to tell about my hours spent in Orr.

Orr is a fantastic zone!

It’s the only zone in the whole game except exploreable dungeons where I felt like there were truly any enemies worthy of the name. I actually had to respec my warrior more defensively and LEARN some kitten combos before I was able to advance through those barricades in Straights of Devastation. I had to be selective of which skills I picked, and would often switch out different major trait skills depending on the particular area I was in.

That said, I died a grand total of twice in Orr, both times falling from a ledge. I was able to solo all but two skill challenges, one in Malchor’s leap with two veterans that I couldn’t kill fast enough, and another in Shores inside that maze which I had the same problem with.

Orr is not too hard, it just requires some thought, which appears to be a commodity bred out of this current generation of gamers.

PS If you’re a warrior, CARRYING banner of tactics is your friend.

Shooopa,
If this happens for 3-4 times, but still I make some progress, then at my 15th attempt I would get somewhere.
If the same thing happens over and over again there are several solutions to this problem:
1. l2p. you’re probably doing something wrong and trying the same thing over and over. If it doesn’t work after 3 times, it won’t work in the 15th time.
2. you don’t want to change your play style. It’s fine, but since we already established it’s not working, bring a friend. Having company while being eaten by sharks, is more fun than being eaten alone.
3. go do some dungeons, gear up a bit, and come back. If it’s still not working, look at no. 1 or no.2 in my list.

I did pretty well for Orr’s first map, Straits of Devastation until I got across the sea and then it was tooth and nail to get anywhere added to the fact no one helped me ever for 3 hours there. It was only until I found a like-minded mesmer girl join up with me that we got the map finished… she even was kind enough to help me on the story quest there. I probably wasted 40 sliver in the kitten place. Way pointing over and over and repairing is not fun.

I try to be at least helpful if I can… I will not put mobs on you as its just wrong in all my days of earlier MMOs so don’t do it to me. Luckily in my server there weren’t enough people around in “Straights” to even have that situation happen. I have to say, once I made my frustration known about the lack of respect and helpfulness in the community there a lot of people finally offered to help on certain things when I did ask, yet, still you will have kitten that will call you a Q.Q and l2p and other things.

What’s Plinx? i wanna farm

nothing about orr is hard. it just tends to be annoying/aggravating, and tuned to having exotics or at least yellows at 80 and in a group of at least 2.

even running around solo isn’t bad at all. i can literally mindlessly wander around without too much thought except the one even in malchor’s with the constant KBs from siege weapons.

otherwise i take guildies there when they hit 70 and give the “tour” so they have the waypoints to farm when they hit 80.

anyways, yes orr is annoying

not only do the mob liek to spam Kbs and pulls and minute long snares and long chills and such and have such fast respawn time and density that stopping to try and do map completion by yourself even in full exotics you’ll get a never ending chain of mobs preventing your from finishing stuff liek skill points but…

it’s completely filled with zombies. which by the time you hit 80 you’ve in unundated by since around level 25(at least if you’re human)

in a game that advertises itself as being different.

well having zombies as your focus of your lore and story and gameplay is about as the same old same old as it gets in video games for the past 5 years. zombies are so over done and beaten to death in every game movie book and comic that’s it’s redonculous.

now you may say that “these aren’t your typcial zombies” except zombies that “aren’t your typical zombie” ARE YOUR TYPICAL ZOMBIE.

it’s silly.

so i basically sit in LA gambling for my gold instead of farming orr because i am sick of zombies and there are no viable alternatives to farm in (FGS isn’t a viable alternative by any means). heck i think i’ll just pick up some extra shifts at work so i can buy gems so i can avoid the zombie parts of gw2 altogether.

Orr is only somewhat tolerable because my engineer can give himself unlimited durations of swiftness… Which only helps somewhat since your speed is reduced when in combat and you happen to be in combat almost all the time. I never bring my necro down there unless I want to do Arah EM (assuming the gate isn’t bug-locked), feel a real need to double tap ori-nodes or actually will myself to finishing the 100% completion for that toon.

The fact of the matter is that farming is the most effective way to get what you need for legendary items and playing the mystic forge for skins. Farming isn’t a very social experience and few people really enjoy it. If dungeons were a real viable alternative towards achieving the same ends, and were a little more creative in execution (imo), then you might see a more friendly community.

Actually, the way it normally goes for me is this way:

As i am mining the ore node I just cleared the mobs off of, Mighty Joe comes running through the mobs, because he does not want to kill them not because he is running for help, swerves towards me to drop some agro then continues on his merry way and now I am running as I have 6 – 10 mobs on me.

If people are the issue, then it is up to us to join a guild of like-minded individuals that we can trust and turn map chat off. I have been in the same guild in gw1 and gw2 for 5 years now. map chat in this game is no different than in any MMO. The MMO itself however is a LOT better for having people to play with when no one in my guild is on. I just keep map chat off and it fixes the problem.