Why Raid Asc. vendor not requite crafting?
I see your point, but given the shard cap and the expected difficulty of raids and their design focus oriented as “hardcore content”, it is enough to justify not requiring crafted mats.
But, I am kind of disappointed at the negligible cost difference between crafting and purchasing ascended quality armor and weapons in fotms. But, as the market changes, so will the crafting prices, and maybe somewhere in the release line-up, Arenanet is expecting a drop in price for materials to craft ascended.
Why is it unfair? Do people realize you can still craft ascended items the old fashioned way without using vendors? If anything, it’s PvP that’s totally shafted. You need to play roughly 600 PvP matches for a full set of ascended items. Where as in fractals, you can get a piece every 6 days.
I believe he’s saying it’s unfair that fractals and pvp were changed to require crafting but raids were not.
yes, why people who play fractals or pvp need also to do 500lv crafting and spend 60g on materials + fractal/pvp things. And people who raid can get ascended staff only from their tokens, no crafting, no extra cost?
because anet made a really stupid change to pvp ascended
I see your point, but given the shard cap and the expected difficulty of raids and their design focus oriented as “hardcore content”, it is enough to justify not requiring crafted mats.
Not when the main stated reason behind the change to pvp and fractal vendors was “unification” of the vendor system.
Either the reason we were given was bunk, or the raid vendor is in need of getting the same change.
But, I am kind of disappointed at the negligible cost difference between crafting and purchasing ascended quality armor and weapons in fotms. But, as the market changes, so will the crafting prices, and maybe somewhere in the release line-up, Arenanet is expecting a drop in price for materials to craft ascended.
If anything, the price of ascended crafting will go up, as the alternatives to it were reduced.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
(edited by Astralporing.1957)
yes, why people who play fractals or pvp need also to do 500lv crafting and spend 60g on materials + fractal/pvp things. And people who raid can get ascended staff only from their tokens, no crafting, no extra cost?
Because, raiding is limited by design and already has a required extra gold cost. Tokens themselves have a market value as some items from raids can be sold. Also, its not cost efficient to buy anything outside of trinkets for raids.
pvp and fractal vendor require you to craft these 500lv craft tokens. That made it way more expensive now.
So why raid vendor dont requite that ?
Its not because its time-gated, as getting fractal pages is also time-gated for example.
Isnt it unfair?
Let’s do some math.
Ghostly infusion price is 1000 Magnetite Shards + 20g. You can sell it for ~250 gold in trading post. That makes ~200g profit for 1000 Shards. 20 silver for a shard. Ok.
Cheapest armor piece is 150 Shards + 5g that equals to 35 gold for gloves or boots.
As you can see it is already very expensive.
I didn’t mention 150 shard cap per week. There is a lot of cheaper options in game.
pvp and fractal vendor require you to craft these 500lv craft tokens. That made it way more expensive now.
So why raid vendor dont requite that ?
Its not because its time-gated, as getting fractal pages is also time-gated for example.
Isnt it unfair?
Let’s do some math.
Ghostly infusion price is 1000 Magnetite Shards + 20g. You can sell it for ~250 gold in trading post. That makes ~200g profit for 1000 Shards. 20 silver for a shard. Ok.
Cheapest armor piece is 150 Shards + 5g that equals to 35 gold for gloves or boots.
As you can see it is already very expensive.
I didn’t mention 150 shard cap per week. There is a lot of cheaper options in game.
So, what are these cheaper options?
pvp and fractal vendor require you to craft these 500lv craft tokens. That made it way more expensive now.
So why raid vendor dont requite that ?
Its not because its time-gated, as getting fractal pages is also time-gated for example.
Isnt it unfair?
Let’s do some math.
Ghostly infusion price is 1000 Magnetite Shards + 20g. You can sell it for ~250 gold in trading post. That makes ~200g profit for 1000 Shards. 20 silver for a shard. Ok.
Cheapest armor piece is 150 Shards + 5g that equals to 35 gold for gloves or boots.
As you can see it is already very expensive.
I didn’t mention 150 shard cap per week. There is a lot of cheaper options in game.So, what are these cheaper options?
Well. I’ve looked closer to the prices for Grandmaster Marks(especially Leatherworker). It seems that buying cheapest armor pieces for Magnetite Shards is better option. But price for chest/leg armor is higher than fractal one.
You can check prices yourself:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grandmaster_Leatherworker's_Mark
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magnetite_Shard
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ghostly_Infusion_
The prices this week are going to be much higher than they will be in a month, as people are taking advantage of stocked up currencies. The marks use different amounts of mats than regular crafting, so ultimately, I expect one to end up being much cheaper, depending on the markets.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
While I approve that ANet is acting to preserve the value of crafting mats, they should not have exempted raid Ascended.
While I approve that ANet is acting to preserve the value of crafting mats, they should not have exempted raid Ascended.
They aren’t exempted, they are subject to just as many restrictions as the other systems. Namely the weekly currency lockout.
The only current problem with the system is the average time & cost across each mode isn’t nearly close enough to what it should be, but that’s not a raid issue that’s an economic issue.
it is obvious isn’kitten
Anet wants you to raid.
Cutie Phantasmer/Farinas [HAX] – CD Casual
Archeage = Farmville with PK
Archeage = Farmville with PK
While I approve that ANet is acting to preserve the value of crafting mats, they should not have exempted raid Ascended.
They aren’t exempted, they are subject to just as many restrictions as the other systems. Namely the weekly currency lockout.
The only current problem with the system is the average time & cost across each mode isn’t nearly close enough to what it should be, but that’s not a raid issue that’s an economic issue.
While I appreciate that your concerns and mine might be dissimilar, I don’t care about balancing restrictions. I do care about what I get out of the existence of Ascended crafting.
it is obvious isn’kitten
Anet wants you to raid.
lol.. this profanity filter….
Cutie Phantasmer/Farinas [HAX] – CD Casual
Archeage = Farmville with PK
Archeage = Farmville with PK
pvp and fractal vendor require you to craft these 500lv craft tokens. That made it way more expensive now.
So why raid vendor dont requite that ?
Its not because its time-gated, as getting fractal pages is also time-gated for example.
Isnt it unfair?
First of all, getting ascended from fractals was made considerably cheaper with the update, it is about 350g-390g (give or take based on weight) while it was above 560g before the patch. Even if you include the cost of leveling your craft to 500 by buying absolutely everything, the new system is way cheaper.
Second, the pvp vendor was changed to be the same cost as the new Fractal vendor. You could get ascended from pvp by paying ~20g which was completely unfair to other methods. Now pvp and fractals have the same cost, fractals is considerably cheaper and pvp is way higher to match the new fractal price.
Third, Raid ascended is more time gated than the fractal vendor. You can get a full set of Ascended from fractals in 29 days but you will need approximately 56-63 days (based on the day of the week you Raid) to get a full set from Raids. These assume that you do all 3 daily fractals (which is really easy and quick) and getting 150 shards per week (which is both slower and much harder)
Fourth, let’s assume that they change the Raid vendor to include crafting, which might happen btw don’t rule it out that it won’t happen in the future. This would mean the cost in shards will drop considerably, then we get the problem of massive hoarding of magnetite shards, they’d need to either limit their supply, or add extra ways of spending that currency in other ways. Right now it’s supposed to be “balanced” with the current supply and demand, reducing the amount you need to buy your gear would have an effect on the currency you might not be able to see.
Fifth, what about unique raid skins? The Raid vendor sells unique skins for Shards and as other unique vendor rewards in the game, they do not need any kind of crafting to get. They are also considerably more expensive, a chest of daggers is 250 magnetite shards and 15g while an Assaulter’s Sparking Dagger costs 600 magnetite shards and 20g. Not to mention the “extra” requirement of killing the appropriate boss before being able to buy these.
(edited by maddoctor.2738)
Anet was pushing PVP so this game could be the new league of legends. Now that they realize that won’t happen they are pushing raids because reasons.
Anet was pushing PVP so this game could be the new league of legends. Now that they realize that won’t happen they are pushing raids because reasons.
It’s not about pushing one mode or the other, its about making the average cost and time investment for the items nearer to even. Before they were wildly out of touch with a rational time frame for acquisition (way to fast), now they are closer to what Anet feels is normal (excluding shelling out raw gold to circumvent time, and even time has a set value to it). It’s far from perfect, but it’s not nearly as bad as the hyperbolic statements being made are making it out to be.
it is obvious isn’kitten
Anet wants you to raid.
Ding Ding Ding.
Winner winner chicken dinner!
Another derailing post. ^^
North Keep: One of the village residents will now flee if their home is destroyed.
“Game over man, Game Over!” – RIP Bill
North Keep: One of the village residents will now flee if their home is destroyed.
“Game over man, Game Over!” – RIP Bill
Cuz raid is once per week… The others you can do daily…
(Guess)
Please nerf bag types instead of class skills!
but to buy ascended from Fractals you need fractal pages and they are also time gated and limited.
but to buy ascended from Fractals you need fractal pages and they are also time gated and limited.
and does it take you 3 weeks to get 1 piece of gear ? Because that’s what it takes for a raid.
but to buy ascended from Fractals you need fractal pages and they are also time gated and limited.
and does it take you 3 weeks to get 1 piece of gear ? Because that’s what it takes for a raid.
Only for chest. There are pieces that can be done within one cap, without needing to wait for even one week. Also, you get magnetites from doing normal raids, but rewards from recommended low tiers aren’t exactly encouraging, so you’d be doing them only for pages.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
but to buy ascended from Fractals you need fractal pages and they are also time gated and limited.
and does it take you 3 weeks to get 1 piece of gear ? Because that’s what it takes for a raid.
Only for chest. There are pieces that can be done within one cap, without needing to wait for even one week. Also, you get magnetites from doing normal raids, but rewards from recommended low tiers aren’t exactly encouraging, so you’d be doing them only for pages.
at 150 a week (the max sans bonuses for salvaging extra/returning mini’s) you can get exactly 1 piece in 1 week(either shoulders, gloves or boots). In 2 weeks you can get 1 of the following including the above Helm and Leggings. In 3 weeks you’re able to get Chest.
Now then in that same timespan and even saving some days. You can get a chestpiece from fractals. it takes 24 pages (8 days of fractals) to do so. 8 days…Not 3 weeks 8 days.
Please tell me why this is such a bad shaft cause i’m not seeing it, especially considering it’s cheaper than crafting currently (if you exclude the cost of leveling)
Also, you get magnetites from doing normal raids, but rewards from recommended low tiers aren’t exactly encouraging, so you’d be doing them only for pages.
It takes 5 minutes to do T1 fractals and most of them are doable in a duo, or even solo. It’s not exactly time consuming to do those low tiers and for the time required the rewards aren’t so bad.
As for the actual comparison in days:
88 Fractal Research Pages require 29 days (3 pages per day are possible)
1300 Magnetite Shards require 9 weeks (63 days) if you can get 150 shards each week. You can get extra shards from the minis and other ascended items you get as drops. That’s about 40 Shards per miniature or 60 per other items, average 50 Shards. You’d need about 4 of those per run for the Raid version to take the same time as the Fractal version, that always assumes you get 150 shards per week, every week, though.
4 miniatures/ascended drops per run, while getting 150 each week, is how Raids break even with Fractals.
(edited by maddoctor.2738)
How many you get a week is not in question, it’s why you don’t need crafting for this vendor but you do for the others. The pvp system used to have a limit to the number of ascended shards you could get in a season but they removed that limit when they added the crafting requirements; if they added a crafting requirement for the raid vendors too they could remove the weekly cap for magnetite shards too.
How many you get a week is not in question, it’s why you don’t need crafting for this vendor but you do for the others. The pvp system used to have a limit to the number of ascended shards you could get in a season but they removed that limit when they added the crafting requirements; if they added a crafting requirement for the raid vendors too they could remove the weekly cap for magnetite shards too.
Remove the weekly cap for shards while at the same reduce how many you need to get items? That won’t end well
How many you get a week is not in question, it’s why you don’t need crafting for this vendor but you do for the others. The pvp system used to have a limit to the number of ascended shards you could get in a season but they removed that limit when they added the crafting requirements; if they added a crafting requirement for the raid vendors too they could remove the weekly cap for magnetite shards too.
Remove the weekly cap for shards while at the same reduce how many you need to get items? That won’t end well
Who said anything about reducing how many you need to get items? After all, you still need as many ascended shards of glory as before and you now need gold and crafting tokens on top, sure you don’t need shards of glory but those were cheap anyway. Either way, I think the crafting requirement would “balance out” any changes.
They won’t do anything like this, of course, raiding is the golden child right now but if you have the magnetite shards it’s now so much cheaper to buy using them than any other method.
(edited by Pifil.5193)
How come no one considers the subject that raids are just really hard for most people? I mean, it’s easy to say they’re easy and it’s not hard to view clears on YouTube that make it look easy. In reality though, it can be tough to make progress when you’re just starting out and not a part of some prestigious guild with lots of support. A lot of guilds only raid once a week and only have time to clear 3 or 4 bosses with plenty of wipes in between.
Combine that with the shard limit, and I’d say that you earned that discounted ascended armor. Never mind the fact that, for most compositions, you’re going to want everyone in ascended weapons going in, so it’s more like another way to get your alts equipped, which you’re going to need to do to make progress in raids.
(edited by Coffietire.2783)
Challenging group content should have real rewards that get used in that challenging group content. They have a really usable, healthy, balanced economy right now in Magnetite Shards. If they were to hamfistedly change it up they would ruin the reward system in-place and do vastly more harm than good. This isn’t like the S5 PvP vendor where you could get an entire armor set in 1 day with 0 gold cost. The opportunity cost alone for spending your Magnetite Shards is immense.
[VZ] Valor Zeal – Stormbluff Isle – Looking for steady, casual-friendly NA raiders!
Challenging group content should have real rewards that get used in that challenging group content. They have a really usable, healthy, balanced economy right now in Magnetite Shards. If they were to hamfistedly change it up they would ruin the reward system in-place and do vastly more harm than good. This isn’t like the S5 PvP vendor where you could get an entire armor set in 1 day with 0 gold cost. The opportunity cost alone for spending your Magnetite Shards is immense.
It is significantly cheaper to buy Ascended equipment using Magnetite Shards than any of the other vendors (or basic crafting). This is based on the “opportunity costs” for those shards (although I do wonder just how realistic getting 250g for a Ghostly Infusion really is).
The real issue is why this vendor doesn’t require crafting while the others do. How “usable”, “healthy” or “balanced” it all is is quite debatable as is whether or not it’s a suitable reward for the content (given that you get actual ascended drops from the raids too).
I suspect they won’t change anything here because the numbers raiding are quite low and most people raiding already have Ascended (probably).
The influx of people into sPvP however caused them to “adjust” things there, and of course they applied the usual ArenaNet overcompensation there, the previous season you could get 1200 shards quite easily, this season you need over 300 wins or 600 losses to get that same amount of shards, at 10 minutes or so a match you’re looking at 3000-6000 minutes (50-100 hours) spent in sPvP (and then you just get a moderate discount over regular crafting as you have to supply a load of gold and crafting materials on top).