Why Was the Frost Gun Disabled?

Why Was the Frost Gun Disabled?

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Posted by: PookieDaWombat.6209

PookieDaWombat.6209

Why did you guys disable the freeze rifle thing? It was PvE only and frankly it was a fun little gimmick that wasn’t actually unbalancing anything.

I can understand if you allowed its use in WvW or PvP.

Just wondering honestly what was the driving force for this one since it seems more like a “look our players are having fun, stop them!” kind of move.

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Posted by: Inculpatus cedo.9234

Inculpatus cedo.9234

I don’t know what the ‘exploit’ was/is, but evidently harmful-to-the-game enough to warrant temporarily disabling it, just like the Super Adventure Box-o-Fun.

I’m sure it will return…soon.

Good luck.

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Posted by: Kako.1930

Kako.1930

My guess is it’s because of Wooden Potatoes’ video, lol.

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Posted by: Stitch.1794

Stitch.1794

It allowed certain builds to do massive damage – for example it made it possible to solo bandits from the current event bounties by using it for a massive burst. It has the potential to spoil the fun of anyone who wanted to actually do the event properly. Having seen first-hand the toxicity that has occurred in the past when people have had competing agendas over events (like fail-farming in Orr), then it’s worth fixing this.

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Posted by: Ok I Did It.2854

Ok I Did It.2854

It wasn’t an exploit, it was an environmental weapon given by an NPC that was long long forgotten, until someone worked out at the chill damage from it in combo with some traits allowed some classes to stack insane amounts of bleed stacks on an enemy, clearly when they made HoT they cant cover every single thing that could arise, like WP said, most people probably never heard of the weapon until his video, I hadn’t, I gave it a try, it was ok for a gimmick, but not really overly useful or all that fun.

I think on the WP stream on twitch they got like 600 bleed stacks on the chak world boss, and killed it in 1 burn.

It did need nerfed, im hoping they nerf the weapon and not the Reaper, but a lot of people on reddit have a feeling anet will hit the Reapers trait instead.

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Posted by: Inculpatus cedo.9234

Inculpatus cedo.9234

Well, ArenaNet considered it an exploit, exploit or no: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Frost-Gun-Disabled/first#post6557021

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Posted by: Randulf.7614

Randulf.7614

Something would be very wrong if the answer was not to change an almost never used environmental weapon and nerf an entire class instead. I suspect the weapon will either be restored with restrictions or removed entirely.

I think Reddit is worrying needlessly here.

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Posted by: Kruhljak.2705

Kruhljak.2705

Why did you guys disable the freeze rifle thing? It was PvE only and frankly it was a fun little gimmick that wasn’t actually unbalancing anything.

I can understand if you allowed its use in WvW or PvP.

Are you going to keep using it after it’s nerfed back to where the number of potential bleed stacks is in line with other game mechanics?

Probably not. So, your answer is pretty much embedded within your question.

Broken is broken. Broken stuff needs to be fixed for obvious reasons.

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Posted by: sephiroth.4217

sephiroth.4217

It allowed certain builds to do massive damage – for example it made it possible to solo bandits from the current event bounties by using it for a massive burst. It has the potential to spoil the fun of anyone who wanted to actually do the event properly. Having seen first-hand the toxicity that has occurred in the past when people have had competing agendas over events (like fail-farming in Orr), then it’s worth fixing this.

Fail-farming Orr…. My god…. That was like, 4 years ago? When Orr Karma trains were a thing lol

I mostly play for the new Free-For-All arena in PvP lobby.
….. And Elementalist.

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Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

Eh I guess I can understand how it was an “exploit” in that they never intended a single player to be able to stack so many bleeds so quickly.

I hope they just add an ICD on the chill application for those attacks on the rifle. Because the skills looked pretty fun to use, so I hope they don’t butcher them

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Posted by: Stitch.1794

Stitch.1794

It allowed certain builds to do massive damage – for example it made it possible to solo bandits from the current event bounties by using it for a massive burst. It has the potential to spoil the fun of anyone who wanted to actually do the event properly. Having seen first-hand the toxicity that has occurred in the past when people have had competing agendas over events (like fail-farming in Orr), then it’s worth fixing this.

Fail-farming Orr…. My god…. That was like, 4 years ago? When Orr Karma trains were a thing lol

Not really, you still occasionally get groups doing it with the event to capture Shank Anchorage at the start of the Gates of Arah chain.

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Posted by: sephiroth.4217

sephiroth.4217

It allowed certain builds to do massive damage – for example it made it possible to solo bandits from the current event bounties by using it for a massive burst. It has the potential to spoil the fun of anyone who wanted to actually do the event properly. Having seen first-hand the toxicity that has occurred in the past when people have had competing agendas over events (like fail-farming in Orr), then it’s worth fixing this.

Fail-farming Orr…. My god…. That was like, 4 years ago? When Orr Karma trains were a thing lol

Not really, you still occasionally get groups doing it with the event to capture Shank Anchorage at the start of the Gates of Arah chain.

“occasionally”…. lol.

Fail farming Orr and Orr Karma trains were constant back then, no mega servers, so once you were done on one server, you guested to another server who broke the event for more farming or training. Trains would start and finish and restart every 5 minutes.

Long time ago…. prob closer to 5 years now, not sure how you can say “not really”to something that used to happen frequently.

I mostly play for the new Free-For-All arena in PvP lobby.
….. And Elementalist.

(edited by sephiroth.4217)

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Posted by: Illconceived Was Na.9781

Illconceived Was Na.9781

Used as designed, by most any other prof and prior to the removal of the condi cap of 25, the Frost Gun wouldn’t have been at issue. Today, it’s a problem and I hope it doesn’t matter to too many people whether ANet refers to it as an exploit or not.

John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”

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Posted by: Sojourner.4621

Sojourner.4621

Basically they will probably just find a way to make it so that the chill from frost gun doesn’t interact with the necro traits that make it broken in much the same way that the passive effects of traits are disabled when you do tonic transformations.

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Posted by: Stitch.1794

Stitch.1794

It allowed certain builds to do massive damage – for example it made it possible to solo bandits from the current event bounties by using it for a massive burst. It has the potential to spoil the fun of anyone who wanted to actually do the event properly. Having seen first-hand the toxicity that has occurred in the past when people have had competing agendas over events (like fail-farming in Orr), then it’s worth fixing this.

Fail-farming Orr…. My god…. That was like, 4 years ago? When Orr Karma trains were a thing lol

Not really, you still occasionally get groups doing it with the event to capture Shank Anchorage at the start of the Gates of Arah chain.

“occasionally”…. lol.

Fail farming Orr and Orr Karma trains were constant back then, no mega servers, so once you were done on one server, you guested to another server who broke the event for more farming or training. Trains would start and finish and restart every 5 minutes.

Long time ago…. prob closer to 5 years now, not sure how you can say “not really”to something that used to happen frequently.

I can say not really to 4 years ago because I’ve seen it happen in the past few weeks – yes it is a lot less frequent now, but it isn’t something that exclusively happened back then, it’s occurred pretty much throughout the game’s existence, and still happens now.

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Posted by: Menadena.7482

Menadena.7482

Something would be very wrong if the answer was not to change an almost never used environmental weapon and nerf an entire class instead. I suspect the weapon will either be restored with restrictions or removed entirely.

I think Reddit is worrying needlessly here.

Have you seen what they have done to some classes in the name of the almighty balance? What is worse, when the balance issue is in a game mode you never play.

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Posted by: Amaimon.7823

Amaimon.7823

the killed 2, and nearly killed a third Chack gerent in a single dps phase. if that doesn’t spell overpowered..

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Posted by: SlippyCheeze.5483

SlippyCheeze.5483

Something would be very wrong if the answer was not to change an almost never used environmental weapon and nerf an entire class instead. I suspect the weapon will either be restored with restrictions or removed entirely.

I think Reddit is worrying needlessly here.

Have you seen what they have done to some classes in the name of the almighty balance? What is worse, when the balance issue is in a game mode you never play.

Yeah, but, here is the thing … ANet make those decisions because they have the numbers, at scale, across the entire playerbase. Reasonable estimates put that at more than a couple hundred thousand people a week.

If the 3-bleeds-on-chill trait is unbalanced when used fairly, it’ll change. If it’s unbalanced when used with an effectively “unlimited number of chill stacks” environmental weapon, they will fix the weapon, one way or another. (Worst case, remove it, best case, ICD on chill applied by that one attack.)

Balance is about just that, balance. It doesn’t matter if it’s “fun” to you, or if you can’t see where the unbalanced part of the change is. It’s about ensuring that all the classes are roughly equally capable across the board.

Don’t get salty just because, sometimes, you feel like that wasn’t entirely fair to your fave, and remember: everyone gets hit with the nerf-bat at some point. into the GROUND!

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Posted by: Menadena.7482

Menadena.7482

Something would be very wrong if the answer was not to change an almost never used environmental weapon and nerf an entire class instead. I suspect the weapon will either be restored with restrictions or removed entirely.

I think Reddit is worrying needlessly here.

Have you seen what they have done to some classes in the name of the almighty balance? What is worse, when the balance issue is in a game mode you never play.

Yeah, but, here is the thing … ANet make those decisions because they have the numbers, at scale, across the entire playerbase. Reasonable estimates put that at more than a couple hundred thousand people a week.

If the 3-bleeds-on-chill trait is unbalanced when used fairly, it’ll change. If it’s unbalanced when used with an effectively “unlimited number of chill stacks” environmental weapon, they will fix the weapon, one way or another. (Worst case, remove it, best case, ICD on chill applied by that one attack.)

Balance is about just that, balance. It doesn’t matter if it’s “fun” to you, or if you can’t see where the unbalanced part of the change is. It’s about ensuring that all the classes are roughly equally capable across the board.

Don’t get salty just because, sometimes, you feel like that wasn’t entirely fair to your fave, and remember: everyone gets hit with the nerf-bat at some point. into the GROUND!

I am talking about ‘balances’ that completely nerf a profession for the people that were not abusing what was seen as a problem. I do not care what the trait is, NO one trait is worth basically making any profession unusable. The balance-hammer tends to be overused when a finer touch would solve a distinct use case.

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Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

Something would be very wrong if the answer was not to change an almost never used environmental weapon and nerf an entire class instead. I suspect the weapon will either be restored with restrictions or removed entirely.

I think Reddit is worrying needlessly here.

Have you seen what they have done to some classes in the name of the almighty balance? What is worse, when the balance issue is in a game mode you never play.

Yeah, but, here is the thing … ANet make those decisions because they have the numbers, at scale, across the entire playerbase. Reasonable estimates put that at more than a couple hundred thousand people a week.

If the 3-bleeds-on-chill trait is unbalanced when used fairly, it’ll change. If it’s unbalanced when used with an effectively “unlimited number of chill stacks” environmental weapon, they will fix the weapon, one way or another. (Worst case, remove it, best case, ICD on chill applied by that one attack.)

Balance is about just that, balance. It doesn’t matter if it’s “fun” to you, or if you can’t see where the unbalanced part of the change is. It’s about ensuring that all the classes are roughly equally capable across the board.

Don’t get salty just because, sometimes, you feel like that wasn’t entirely fair to your fave, and remember: everyone gets hit with the nerf-bat at some point. into the GROUND!

The trait is working as intended for how much chill the reaper itself has access to. The trait is absolutely not the problem here. The only problem was how many applications of chill the frost gun skills could put out incredibly quickly. So I hope their fix only involves adding a short ICD to the chill application of the frost gun

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Posted by: Menadena.7482

Menadena.7482

Something would be very wrong if the answer was not to change an almost never used environmental weapon and nerf an entire class instead. I suspect the weapon will either be restored with restrictions or removed entirely.

I think Reddit is worrying needlessly here.

Have you seen what they have done to some classes in the name of the almighty balance? What is worse, when the balance issue is in a game mode you never play.

Yeah, but, here is the thing … ANet make those decisions because they have the numbers, at scale, across the entire playerbase. Reasonable estimates put that at more than a couple hundred thousand people a week.

If the 3-bleeds-on-chill trait is unbalanced when used fairly, it’ll change. If it’s unbalanced when used with an effectively “unlimited number of chill stacks” environmental weapon, they will fix the weapon, one way or another. (Worst case, remove it, best case, ICD on chill applied by that one attack.)

Balance is about just that, balance. It doesn’t matter if it’s “fun” to you, or if you can’t see where the unbalanced part of the change is. It’s about ensuring that all the classes are roughly equally capable across the board.

Don’t get salty just because, sometimes, you feel like that wasn’t entirely fair to your fave, and remember: everyone gets hit with the nerf-bat at some point. into the GROUND!

The trait is working as intended for how much chill the reaper itself has access to. The trait is absolutely not the problem here. The only problem was how many applications of chill the frost gun skills could put out incredibly quickly. So I hope their fix only involves adding a short ICD to the chill application of the frost gun

Reread my post as I was talking about balancing in general when someone asked if reaper would be nerfed. I had not used the frost gun but I have been burned by other balances.

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Posted by: TexZero.7910

TexZero.7910

This time you really can blame necro’s.

It was the only way for them to get significant DPS and that’s clearly not allowed.

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Posted by: Ticky.5831

Ticky.5831

It definitely trivialized content, including the Chak Gherent with the exception of the SCAR lane.

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Posted by: Vegeta.2563

Vegeta.2563

Why did you guys disable the freeze rifle thing? It was PvE only and frankly it was a fun little gimmick that wasn’t actually unbalancing anything.

I can understand if you allowed its use in WvW or PvP.

Just wondering honestly what was the driving force for this one since it seems more like a “look our players are having fun, stop them!” kind of move.

It was working with the Reaper trait that gives you bleed every time you chill something. Frost gun has lots of chill. So you could get over 100+ bleeds in a matter of seconds. Pretty sure that’s unbalanced.

This Guild Is Fire [PRUF]

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Posted by: sephiroth.4217

sephiroth.4217

It allowed certain builds to do massive damage – for example it made it possible to solo bandits from the current event bounties by using it for a massive burst. It has the potential to spoil the fun of anyone who wanted to actually do the event properly. Having seen first-hand the toxicity that has occurred in the past when people have had competing agendas over events (like fail-farming in Orr), then it’s worth fixing this.

Fail-farming Orr…. My god…. That was like, 4 years ago? When Orr Karma trains were a thing lol

Not really, you still occasionally get groups doing it with the event to capture Shank Anchorage at the start of the Gates of Arah chain.

“occasionally”…. lol.

Fail farming Orr and Orr Karma trains were constant back then, no mega servers, so once you were done on one server, you guested to another server who broke the event for more farming or training. Trains would start and finish and restart every 5 minutes.

Long time ago…. prob closer to 5 years now, not sure how you can say “not really”to something that used to happen frequently.

I can say not really to 4 years ago because I’ve seen it happen in the past few weeks – yes it is a lot less frequent now, but it isn’t something that exclusively happened back then, it’s occurred pretty much throughout the game’s existence, and still happens now.

but seeing todays standard and comparing it to back then, today is bugger all. You’d almost say this is a dead game when comparing to back then.

I mostly play for the new Free-For-All arena in PvP lobby.
….. And Elementalist.

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Posted by: abaddon.3290

abaddon.3290

It allowed certain builds to do massive damage – for example it made it possible to solo bandits from the current event bounties by using it for a massive burst. It has the potential to spoil the fun of anyone who wanted to actually do the event properly. Having seen first-hand the toxicity that has occurred in the past when people have had competing agendas over events (like fail-farming in Orr), then it’s worth fixing this.

Fail-farming Orr…. My god…. That was like, 4 years ago? When Orr Karma trains were a thing lol

Not really, you still occasionally get groups doing it with the event to capture Shank Anchorage at the start of the Gates of Arah chain.

“occasionally”…. lol.

Fail farming Orr and Orr Karma trains were constant back then, no mega servers, so once you were done on one server, you guested to another server who broke the event for more farming or training. Trains would start and finish and restart every 5 minutes.

Long time ago…. prob closer to 5 years now, not sure how you can say “not really”to something that used to happen frequently.

I can say not really to 4 years ago because I’ve seen it happen in the past few weeks – yes it is a lot less frequent now, but it isn’t something that exclusively happened back then, it’s occurred pretty much throughout the game’s existence, and still happens now.

but seeing todays standard and comparing it to back then, today is bugger all. You’d almost say this is a dead game when comparing to back then.

do you have numbers on population to be able to say this like a fact? i havnt seen any yet besides that 16k people use bgdm

im bad at sarcasm

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Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

I do believe this should not have been labelled as an “exploit” since literally every factor involved was behaving exactly as designed and intended. What wasn’t intended was the result from the synergy.

Yes, it absolutely needed to get nerfed. I certainly won’t argue against that. Calling it an exploit, though, is uncalled for.

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
http://www.twitch.tv/reverse830
I’m a Geeleiver

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Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

I do believe this should not have been labelled as an “exploit” since literally every factor involved was behaving exactly as designed and intended. What wasn’t intended was the result from the synergy.

Yes, it absolutely needed to get nerfed. I certainly won’t argue against that. Calling it an exploit, though, is uncalled for.

I mean, that’s kind of the definition of an exploit though. No single build was meant to be able to stack so many bleeds so quickly, and since it wasn’t intended behavior then something that would allow you to do that would be an exploit.

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Posted by: FrostDraco.8306

FrostDraco.8306

I do believe this should not have been labelled as an “exploit” since literally every factor involved was behaving exactly as designed and intended. What wasn’t intended was the result from the synergy.

Yes, it absolutely needed to get nerfed. I certainly won’t argue against that. Calling it an exploit, though, is uncalled for.

I mean, that’s kind of the definition of an exploit though. No single build was meant to be able to stack so many bleeds so quickly, and since it wasn’t intended behavior then something that would allow you to do that would be an exploit.

No no no. An exploit would have been if there was something wrong that allowed you to stack that many bleeds that wasn’t intended.

What was unintended was the synergy between these two things, but they were both behaving as intended. It would be different if anet didnt intend for bleeds to apply on chill, or chill to apply on crits with frost gun. The result is synergy…not an exploit.

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Posted by: castlemanic.3198

castlemanic.3198

No no no. An exploit would have been if there was something wrong that allowed you to stack that many bleeds that wasn’t intended.

What was unintended was the synergy between these two things, but they were both behaving as intended. It would be different if anet didnt intend for bleeds to apply on chill, or chill to apply on crits with frost gun. The result is synergy…not an exploit.

The synergy itself is the exploit. It’s an exploit because the result of the synergy is unintended and it was an oversight by the developers. No class was ever designed with the ability to produce 100+ bleed in a few seconds solo. The exploit was using this synergy. It’s exactly the same thing as walking into the gap between two invisible walls. By design and intention, you’re not supposed to go there, but there’s the synergy between your ability to walk and the gap between the two invisible walls gives you the ability to slip into an area you’re not normally allowed to get to (and you discover that it’s an exploit when you start walking through things that would normally have collision on them).

So yeah, by definition the synergy itself is the exploit.

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Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

No no no. An exploit would have been if there was something wrong that allowed you to stack that many bleeds that wasn’t intended.

What was unintended was the synergy between these two things, but they were both behaving as intended. It would be different if anet didnt intend for bleeds to apply on chill, or chill to apply on crits with frost gun. The result is synergy…not an exploit.

The synergy itself is the exploit. It’s an exploit because the result of the synergy is unintended and it was an oversight by the developers. No class was ever designed with the ability to produce 100+ bleed in a few seconds solo. The exploit was using this synergy. It’s exactly the same thing as walking into the gap between two invisible walls. By design and intention, you’re not supposed to go there, but there’s the synergy between your ability to walk and the gap between the two invisible walls gives you the ability to slip into an area you’re not normally allowed to get to (and you discover that it’s an exploit when you start walking through things that would normally have collision on them).

So yeah, by definition the synergy itself is the exploit.

Your example needs work. Holes in the invisible walls are not supposed to be there. They are an example of the game not functioning as intended.

This was a case of overpowered synergy. Every single part was working exactly as intended, but the sum of the parts was overlooked when some changes were made. The game was still functioning 100% correctly in this case.

Again, it needed to be nerfed, but it was not using any glitches or mistakes in coding to produce those absurd results. Therefore, not an exploit.

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
http://www.twitch.tv/reverse830
I’m a Geeleiver

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Posted by: sephiroth.4217

sephiroth.4217

It allowed certain builds to do massive damage – for example it made it possible to solo bandits from the current event bounties by using it for a massive burst. It has the potential to spoil the fun of anyone who wanted to actually do the event properly. Having seen first-hand the toxicity that has occurred in the past when people have had competing agendas over events (like fail-farming in Orr), then it’s worth fixing this.

Fail-farming Orr…. My god…. That was like, 4 years ago? When Orr Karma trains were a thing lol

Not really, you still occasionally get groups doing it with the event to capture Shank Anchorage at the start of the Gates of Arah chain.

“occasionally”…. lol.

Fail farming Orr and Orr Karma trains were constant back then, no mega servers, so once you were done on one server, you guested to another server who broke the event for more farming or training. Trains would start and finish and restart every 5 minutes.

Long time ago…. prob closer to 5 years now, not sure how you can say “not really”to something that used to happen frequently.

I can say not really to 4 years ago because I’ve seen it happen in the past few weeks – yes it is a lot less frequent now, but it isn’t something that exclusively happened back then, it’s occurred pretty much throughout the game’s existence, and still happens now.

but seeing todays standard and comparing it to back then, today is bugger all. You’d almost say this is a dead game when comparing to back then.

do you have numbers on population to be able to say this like a fact? i havnt seen any yet besides that 16k people use bgdm

What?

You clearly didn’t play at game release or you have forgotten what it was like back then when we didn’t have a need for megaservers, which actually kind of says it all.

Anyway, reminiscing the old days, didn’t mean to hurt your feelings or start a kitten storm with you over a conversation I was having with someone else.

I mostly play for the new Free-For-All arena in PvP lobby.
….. And Elementalist.

(edited by sephiroth.4217)

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Posted by: Illconceived Was Na.9781

Illconceived Was Na.9781

but it was not using any glitches or mistakes in coding to produce those absurd results. Therefore, not an exploit.

I’m not sure why you keep arguing about the word “exploit.” ANet uses the word to refer to several types of situations, including the abuse of actual glitches or mistakes and the abuse of mechanics that otherwise work as intended.

In the context, ANet means for the word to illustrate a situation that requires urgent intervention on their part (e.g. disabling an item, as they did here).

What benefit is there from enforcing (in a grammatical sense) the strict interpretation that requires an actual bug?

John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”

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Posted by: DeWolfe.2174

DeWolfe.2174

but it was not using any glitches or mistakes in coding to produce those absurd results. Therefore, not an exploit.

I’m not sure why you keep arguing about the word “exploit.” ANet uses the word to refer to several types of situations, including the abuse of actual glitches or mistakes and the abuse of mechanics that otherwise work as intended.

In the context, ANet means for the word to illustrate a situation that requires urgent intervention on their part (e.g. disabling an item, as they did here).

What benefit is there from enforcing (in a grammatical sense) the strict interpretation that requires an actual bug?

Exactly this, this was not an exploit. Bugs and bad balancing are two completely separate things. People were simply using in game features exactly as they were designed to be used.

[AwM] of Jade Quarry.

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Posted by: Crinn.7864

Crinn.7864

The synergy itself is the exploit. It’s an exploit because the result of the synergy is unintended and it was an oversight by the developers.

The use of the term exploit by ArenaNet and other game companies has (up until now) exclusively referred to the exploitation of bugs. Use of overpowered builds have never been termed as a exploit. They didn’t call S1 Chronobunker a exploit despite the fact that that build literally broke sPvP.

And this distinction is important because otherwise you get that guy over in the necro forum that is trying to insinuate that necromancers should have their accounts actioned for using it.

Sanity is for the weak minded.
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Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

The synergy itself is the exploit. It’s an exploit because the result of the synergy is unintended and it was an oversight by the developers.

The use of the term exploit by ArenaNet and other game companies has (up until now) exclusively referred to the exploitation of bugs. Use of overpowered builds have never been termed as a exploit. They didn’t call S1 Chronobunker a exploit despite the fact that that build literally broke sPvP.

And this distinction is important because otherwise you get that guy over in the necro forum that is trying to insinuate that necromancers should have their accounts actioned for using it.

Your analogy is not at all relevant. S1 chronobunker was intentionally designed to be that bunkery. Reaper was not designed to be allowed to stack that many bleed stacks that quickly. You can argue semantics all you want, but that won’t change the fact that Reaper just was not designed to output so many bleed stacks so quickly. If it were, it wouldn’t need an environmental weapon to do so. So yes, it was an exploit. No, that does not mean people need to be banned over it. Not all exploits are worth banning people, which is something that a lot of people can’t seem to wrap their minds around.

Why Was the Frost Gun Disabled?

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Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

The synergy itself is the exploit. It’s an exploit because the result of the synergy is unintended and it was an oversight by the developers.

The use of the term exploit by ArenaNet and other game companies has (up until now) exclusively referred to the exploitation of bugs. Use of overpowered builds have never been termed as a exploit. They didn’t call S1 Chronobunker a exploit despite the fact that that build literally broke sPvP.

And this distinction is important because otherwise you get that guy over in the necro forum that is trying to insinuate that necromancers should have their accounts actioned for using it.

Your analogy is not at all relevant. S1 chronobunker was intentionally designed to be that bunkery. Reaper was not designed to be allowed to stack that many bleed stacks that quickly. You can argue semantics all you want, but that won’t change the fact that Reaper just was not designed to output so many bleed stacks so quickly. If it were, it wouldn’t need an environmental weapon to do so. So yes, it was an exploit. No, that does not mean people need to be banned over it. Not all exploits are worth banning people, which is something that a lot of people can’t seem to wrap their minds around.

I would argue that Chronobunkers were not designed to be that bunkery, as evidenced by the fact that come season 2, they nuked that build from orbit. You don’t do that if the results were intended.

Same deal here. Frostgunner Necro will never be a thing again, and that’s fine. But if Chronobunker wasn’t an exploit, neither was Frostgunner.

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Why Was the Frost Gun Disabled?

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Posted by: Crinn.7864

Crinn.7864

Your analogy is not at all relevant. S1 chronobunker was intentionally designed to be that bunkery. Reaper was not designed to be allowed to stack that many bleed stacks that quickly. You can argue semantics all you want, but that won’t change the fact that Reaper just was not designed to output so many bleed stacks so quickly. If it were, it wouldn’t need an environmental weapon to do so. So yes, it was an exploit. No, that does not mean people need to be banned over it. Not all exploits are worth banning people, which is something that a lot of people can’t seem to wrap their minds around.

I highly doubt that ArenaNet intended for S1 chronobunker to be able to hold a point 1v3 indefinitely. We literally had sPvP matches where nobody died the entire match because of how absurd chronobunker was.

Chronobunker was so absurdly overpowered that in order to fix it the devs had to:
-change precog from evade to distort and later nerfed again to aegis.
-nerf alacrity from 66% to 33%
-make quickness not effect rezzing or stomps.
-some miscelleaous trait nerfs.

Chronobunker was also the catalyst that resulted in the “teams must have 5 unique professions” rule being added to tournaments.

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Why Was the Frost Gun Disabled?

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Posted by: Illconceived Was Na.9781

Illconceived Was Na.9781

Again, why do we care whether ANet calls it an exploit or not? (Even allowing for the revisionist history of how it’s been used in the past.)

This thread is about why the Frost Gun bundle was disabled and that’s been answered.

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