Guild Wars 2

I just found out about these so called penetrating krytan “weapon” of the night. They are these lvl25-50 masterwork weapons with a regular krytan skin and a minor sigil of the night attached( worth 30 copper). The thing is: they are worth 50s-5g. Now, i can’t imagine any reason for such an inflated price other than they being used in some kind of recipe bug/exploit? I mean…. Any ideas about what the hell is going on here?

Seriously? No1 has some kind of idea about what is going on?

Obviously its possible with Anets track record. That seems like a huge amount for a weapon in that lvl range, the skin must be awesome.

Nop, just a regular krytan weapon skin.

give the players of gw2 to think about the question asked
and someone might have the answers dodge

I’ve got nothing for you. I verified your numbers with spidy, it’s completely bizarre. The Krytan skins sell for 3-5s on other items, the minor sigil of the night under 1s by itself. Why…

Someone probably cornered that market so they are selling it for much higher price.

Remember guys, sell orders are just sell orders which have no fulfilled yet. It is very possible that even with the sell listings you see, absolutely no transactions are occuring.

http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/36244

Just looking at this for an example. The sell listing is very high, but it shows absolutely no movement at all, which means it’s been there for quite sometime. Precursor sell listings show more movement then that, so it’s highly likely that despite the highly priced sell listing, no transactions are happening.

Probably someone stashed it or simply typed a wrong price and left it there just in case. Someone else got the same skin, checked the TP to sell it, saw the high price without seeing that it;s only one item and undercut it so they can sell it faster. And so on…

At least that’s my only logical explanation…

No, there are buy orders for 25s+ for almost all weapon types matching that description, including the one you linked. The sellers aren’t coming down to meet them, but those alone are way out of wack; the items are essentially worthless (~5s-ish for the skin).

Something weird is definitely going on with them…

I think you overestimate the intelligence of the average player. “The sell price is so high, it must be valuable!”

codpin.6542:

Probably someone stashed it or simply typed a wrong price and left it there just in case. Someone else got the same skin, checked the TP to sell it, saw the high price without seeing that it;s only one item and undercut it so they can sell it faster. And so on…

At least that’s my only logical explanation…

No, none of this makes any sense. It’s not one item, or one type of item. It’s nearly every weapon class that meets the general description offered by the OP.

http://featherfiles.aviary.com/2013-03-20/82b5cf913/e30031f2c7e549d8a7016a0ae29f0cbd.png

I have no clue. Really quite odd.

I think you overestimate the intelligence of the average player. “The sell price is so high, it must be valuable!”

That really doesn’t make much sense either. You mean that people are seeing the high sell orders and listing lower, but still outrageously high buy orders, just because the items are expensive? Even very stupid people would have to think there was some chance of profiting or getting something worthwhile out of the arrangement. Even if you thought the skin was unique, you can preview from the TP now and it takes like 2 minutes to figure out there are cheaper ones available.

Hawkian.6580:

No, there are buy orders for 25s+ for almost all weapon types matching that description, including the one you linked. The sellers aren’t coming down to meet them, but those alone are way out of wack; the items are essentially worthless (~5s-ish for the skin).

Something weird is definitely going on with them…

Perhaps. Though usually such a large disparity in buy/sell orders means the item don’t move frequently. It could just be that for whatever reason, this item is really rare. Why? I have no idea.

But one thing I can be confident in saying is that transactions for this items occurs very infrequently.

You’re right that the transactions are very rare. The items themselves are rare, there’s barely more than 20 supplied at most for any given type. But look at all the demand. 488 buy orders placed for the dagger at 1.2g? It’s a level 26 green… What.

They’re rare and people like rare things. Really, whether it is a good buy or not, people have certainly spent money on less meaningful items both in and out of the game. Maybe some of those buyers are collectors who seek the items for their own reasons, or maybe they’re leftover buy orders from a day since gone and people forgot about them / don’t know how to remove them. Seriously, do not underestimate consumers.

The only thing that matters is that they’re valued at those buy prices for the people posting the buy orders.

Sometimes an item’s value is based on how rarely/commonly it drops, instead of it’s actual value.

Take the berzerker ring vs the orichalcum berzerker ring with ruby jewel.

Berserker ring is 8g as opposed to 4g for the orichalcum one. Why? Because you can craft the ori one but not the other one.

Both exotic, both have the same zerk stats, however the crafting one has the additional zerk jewel in it.

Back to the original topic: how many are listed? People who go to sell it might see it so high, and just post theirs 1c below. People who are buying might see it listed as 1 gold, so they are willing to buy it at 25s so they can resell it, even though they might think it’s only work 4silver.

It’s like in the movie spades (or the other card one). They ‘lose’ a cheap ring and tell the attendant they can’t find it, but will pay $1K as a reward as it’s valuable. Then a set-up person finds it and the attendant wants it to turn it in for a reward, so the set-up person says they will give it to them for $400. The attendant buys it thinking he will earn $600, instead of just wasting $400.

Completely unnecessary example but I thought it was very fitting.

Maybe they figured you that’s zommoros’s favorite weapon and putting 3 of them in along with the weapon type of your choice spits out a precursor 15% of the time? Totally kidding btw.

munkiman.3068:

Maybe they figured you that’s zommoros’s favorite weapon and putting 3 of them in along with the weapon type of your choice spits out a precursor 15% of the time? Totally kidding btw.

TOO EXCITED TO READ THE LAST SENTENCE! Must…. buy…. ALL of them!

Can you put a sigil into a weapon without it becoming soulbound?

Someone clearly listed the sell price high, another person who likes to play the TP saw the high sell price and the lower buy price, figured omg look what I’ve found 3x profit! Then put in a higher bid price, but still well below the sell price.

Whether or not these items are legitimately selling for this amount is a different story. I doubt anyone is buying this stuff for anything other than flipping.

For all we know people are just constantly flipping this worthless item and no one really knows why.

It isn’t just one item, it’s all the items that match this description: Masterwork, Level 26 or 50 , Penetrating Krytan prefix, Minor Sigil of the Night.

So far as I can tell stuff with sigil of the night in them may have only dropped during Halloween, explaining the lack of supply/“rarity.”

However, that really still doesn’t explain it. I understand how people listing slightly higher buy orders could drive the bidding up to the levels they are at, but I don’t understand anything else about this situation. Level 26 versions are being listed way higher than 50 versions. The Dagger has ENORMOUS demand, and the Longbow is listed at over 4 gold. These items have no actual rarity or apparent value. They’re proverbially a dime a dozen. Fulfilling any of the buy orders listed would represent a tremendous profit to the sellers.

Which is why I’d like to ask again, totally unrelated, just curious for no reason, can you put a sigil into a weapon without it becoming soulbound?

That was a good idea!

I suggest someone buy a bunch of these weapons, throw them into the forge and see if they get a precursor back…any takers?

Bought two Penetrating Krytan weapons, sigiled them with of the nights, they did not become soulbound, but could not sell them on tp. Would suggest that natural dropped weapons of this type are rare since the ability to tp made ones is bugged.

They are expensive because they don’t exist anymore. They only dropped for a brief period during the Halloween event. People are stupid and pay a lot for rare things. Taht is why they are expensive.

Hawkian.6580:

That really doesn’t make much sense either. You mean that people are seeing the high sell orders and listing lower, but still outrageously high buy orders, just because the items are expensive? Even very stupid people would have to think there was some chance of profiting or getting something worthwhile out of the arrangement. Even if you thought the skin was unique, you can preview from the TP now and it takes like 2 minutes to figure out there are cheaper ones available.

Stop overestimating how intelligent people are.
A while back someone bought out all of the potatoes and spiked the price up to 5s or something. People followed suit with buy orders, bringing the buy price up to more than 2s, because “OMG 250% PROFIT MUST BUY” and then anyone with half a brain sold to the buy orders, who relisted at 5s. Which were never sold because that price is awful.

Two words: “Limited Edition.”

killcannon.2576:

Bought two Penetrating Krytan weapons, sigiled them with of the nights, they did not become soulbound, but could not sell them on tp. Would suggest that natural dropped weapons of this type are rare since the ability to tp made ones is bugged.

That’s it then- thanks for trying. If you can do this with other sigils/weapons it’s definitely a bug, but either way that explains it.

The only iterations of these items on the TP are those that dropped during Halloween. As supply began to dwindle they started being listed at higher and higher prices to the point where it became ridiculous; they are the lowest-supplied non-unique weapons (of those that have supply at all), and the highest-priced masterworks, on the market right now.

They have no actual value, but the framework of stupidly high listings and buy orders will probably just stay exactly the way it is now (potentially until next halloween).

it could be an indirect and safer form of real money trading.

1)the gold buyer wants to buy 100 gold from gold farmer.
2)the farmer tells gold buyer to put lvl25 masterwork weapons with a regular krytan skin and a minor sigil of the night attached at a specific high price in the tp.(the specific high price is actualy an indicator to the gold farmer)
3)the farmer buys the specific vl25 masterwork weapons with a regular krytan skin and a minor sigil of the night and the gold buyer gets his 100gold without any direct transaction.

to differentiate between his customers,he can just instruct buyer A to put lvl 25, Buyer B to put lvl 30, Player C put lvl 35 etc.

this method will result in loss of gold thru TP tax but its much safer than direct money transaction between 2 party thru mailing system.

Sounds kinda like the half eaten weapons (which go for a huge amount for low level stuff)

Verdelet Arconia.6987:

it could be an indirect and safer form of real money trading.

1)the gold buyer wants to buy 100 gold from gold farmer.
2)the farmer tells gold buyer to put lvl25 masterwork weapons with a regular krytan skin and a minor sigil of the night attached at a specific high price in the tp.(the specific high price is actualy an indicator to the gold farmer)
3)the farmer buys the specific vl25 masterwork weapons with a regular krytan skin and a minor sigil of the night and the gold buyer gets his 100gold without any direct transaction.

to differentiate between his customers,he can just instruct buyer A to put lvl 25, Buyer B to put lvl 30, Player C put lvl 35 etc.

this method will result in loss of gold thru TP tax but its much safer than direct money transaction between 2 party thru mailing system.

Although possible, I find it unlikely.

The gold seller can never identify his client’s item to buy and can’t control which item to purchase. So he can never be 100% sure who’s sell order it is. Say you have 5 items listed at 1G. Which one does he buy?

Ursan.7846:

Verdelet Arconia.6987:

it could be an indirect and safer form of real money trading.

1)the gold buyer wants to buy 100 gold from gold farmer.
2)the farmer tells gold buyer to put lvl25 masterwork weapons with a regular krytan skin and a minor sigil of the night attached at a specific high price in the tp.(the specific high price is actualy an indicator to the gold farmer)
3)the farmer buys the specific vl25 masterwork weapons with a regular krytan skin and a minor sigil of the night and the gold buyer gets his 100gold without any direct transaction.

to differentiate between his customers,he can just instruct buyer A to put lvl 25, Buyer B to put lvl 30, Player C put lvl 35 etc.

this method will result in loss of gold thru TP tax but its much safer than direct money transaction between 2 party thru mailing system.

Although possible, I find it unlikely.

The gold seller can never identify his client’s item to buy and can’t control which item to purchase. So he can never be 100% sure who’s sell order it is. Say you have 5 items listed at 1G. Which one does he buy?

the answer to ur question is already in my previous post. “Specific High Price”

give u an exaggerated example so that its easier for you to digest.

how much is ecto price now?30-40+silver each. our code is 1234567

i instruct you to put up 3 ecto in the tp with the selling price of 123 gold 45 silver,67 copper each.after doing so,you let me know
once u put it in the tp,i buy it from u at that price.
i know its you because of the specific high price.
very unlikely someone else would waste their tax deposit for listing an item at an incredibly high price since they will lose the tax deposit if nobody buys it and he needs tto relist the item at reasonable price.

the gold farmer would most probably use a non commonly used item and something a normal person would overlook in the tp,but it has to be something disctinct for identification like a certain weapon type,the name and the sigil on it,all this will make it easier for him to pinpoint the gold buyers eq

Verdelet Arconia.6987:

the answer to ur question is already in my previous post. “Specific High Price”

give u an exaggerated example so that its easier for you to digest.

how much is ecto price now?30-40+silver each. our code is 1234567

i instruct you to put up 3 ecto in the tp with the selling price of 123 gold 45 silver,67 copper each.after doing so,you let me know
once u put it in the tp,i buy it from u at that price.
i know its you because of the specific high price.
very unlikely someone else would waste their tax deposit for listing an item at an incredibly high price since they will lose the tax deposit if nobody buys it and he needs tto relist the item at reasonable price.

the gold farmer would most probably use a non commonly used item and something a normal person would overlook in the tp,but it has to be something disctinct for identification like a certain weapon type,the name and the sigil on it,all this will make it easier for him to pinpoint the gold buyers eq

You can only purchase lowest sell orders. If you put up a ecto for 123G, you can’t purchase it until you clear every single ecto below that price.

And if we’re dealing with lowest sell orders, then you have a lot of other people listing the same item at the same price. Very often you’ll have multiple sellers listing the same thing at the same price. So which one do you buy? You can’t control it.

And lastly, even the most expensive of these items are 1 gold. Gold sellers need to move way more money, more efficiently, than that.

Ursan.7846:

Verdelet Arconia.6987:

the answer to ur question is already in my previous post. “Specific High Price”

give u an exaggerated example so that its easier for you to digest.

how much is ecto price now?30-40+silver each. our code is 1234567

i instruct you to put up 3 ecto in the tp with the selling price of 123 gold 45 silver,67 copper each.after doing so,you let me know
once u put it in the tp,i buy it from u at that price.
i know its you because of the specific high price.
very unlikely someone else would waste their tax deposit for listing an item at an incredibly high price since they will lose the tax deposit if nobody buys it and he needs tto relist the item at reasonable price.

the gold farmer would most probably use a non commonly used item and something a normal person would overlook in the tp,but it has to be something disctinct for identification like a certain weapon type,the name and the sigil on it,all this will make it easier for him to pinpoint the gold buyers eq

You can only purchase lowest sell orders. If you put up a ecto for 123G, you can’t purchase it until you clear every single ecto below that price.

And if we’re dealing with lowest sell orders, then you have a lot of other people listing the same item at the same price. Very often you’ll have multiple sellers listing the same thing at the same price. So which one do you buy? You can’t control it.

And lastly, even the most expensive of these items are 1 gold. Gold sellers need to move way more money, more efficiently, than that.

you are not reading my post fully again.this will be my last time explaining my previous post. the globs was used an an exxagerated example.if you read the last paragraph

“the gold farmer would most probably use a non commonly used item and something a normal person would overlook in the tp,but it has to be something disctinct for identification like a certain weapon type,the name and the sigil on it,all this will make it easier for him to pinpoint the gold buyers eq”

a non commonly used item will have a low amout of it being sold,the gold buyer can just buy all of it and then put the items back into the tp. for example the other lvl 25 masterwork items is 5 silver,and total only 22 is listed,he can just buy all of it.

Alternatively,majority of the masterwork axe could be the gold farmer own item in the first place.It is put in the tp for this very purpose of manipulation.for example 22 in the tp,20 is his,1 is from normal player,1 is from gold buyer.Gold farmer just cancels the 20 he puts in the tp,now they will be only 2 masterwork axe for sale,1 at 5 silver,1 at a the specific high price.Gold farmer buys both then relist the axe again at various prices.

the gold farmer has to work extra hard to cover the tax deposit loss this way,but it ensures his business can run safely without being detected.

and it has proved somewhat effective since people like you can’t even understand after being explained

Verdelet Arconia.6987:

you are not reading my post fully again.this will be my last time explaining my previous post. the globs was used an an exxagerated example.if you read the last paragraph

Confused. Exaggerated as it was, it’s still an example that doesn’t work at all. Why bother even bringing it up then? You can’t buy specific prices because you have to buy the lowest sell orders, which means you have no control on who’s items you’re buying exactly. The fact that it’s a different item doesn’t change the fact. You can still have other people put it up at the same listing or undercut it, which leads to even more problems.

Verdelet Arconia.6987:

a non commonly used item will have a low amout of it being sold,the gold buyer can just buy all of it and then put the items back into the tp. for example the other lvl 25 masterwork items is 5 silver,and total only 22 is listed,he can just buy all of it.

First of all, gold buyers/gold sellers have no idea how frequently transactions occur. You can’t just look at “Oh, it has 22 sell listings” and assume the item has very limited supply. That is far from the truth. Precursors very frequently have 2-3 sell listings, but approximately 10 precursors changes hands everyday (Source: John Smith).

So when you’re choosing a certain lvl 25 masterwork item for the purposes of this transaction, you’re risking wasting money on a highly traded market. Very inefficient.

Even if you do succeed in finding a low-transaction market and drive the prices up high, the prices listed on spidy are very low. You’d have to sell 100 of these greens to transfer ~85G. If these items are so rare, how do you come up with 100 of these items? And this is just one client. You can’t hope to be successful in your business selling only 100G once in a while.

If you’re transferring small amounts of gold, easier to just transfer by mail. Makes no sense to the money to such inefficiencies, both for the gold seller (taxes) and the gold buyer (having to buy up so many useless items.)

Verdelet Arconia.6987:

Alternatively,majority of the masterwork axe could be the gold farmer own item in the first place.It is put in the tp for this very purpose of manipulation.

Again, if this item is so rare, how does the gold farmer come up with so many of it? If it’s easily obtainable through drops/crafting, you betcha the item will be far more frequently traded then it is currently.

Verdelet Arconia.6987:

and it has proved somewhat effective since people like you can’t even understand after being explained

It can be somewhat hard to understand posts that don’t have spaces after punctuation and has no consistent capitalization at the beginning of sentences. Seriously though, I wish the criteria for something being “effective” was the fact that it’s apparently difficult to communicate its concept to another person…

No worries bro.Crime can be complex yet simple in its execution.Not everyone has the same mental capacity to understand certain concepts

Verdelet Arconia.6987:

No worries bro.Crime can be complex yet simple in its execution.Not everyone has the same mental capacity

Nice ad hominem, I was wondering when you’d stop arguing points and resorting to personal attacks only. I do find your convictions amusing though. In my original post, I admit that while it’s possible, it’s unlikely. While you seem utterly convinced this is the case. Convinced enough to throw around your supposed intellectual superiority to those who disagree. If you’re so convinced, it seems like you have an insight into this process no? Have you bought gold from gold sellers recently?

Anyways, here’s some of the main things to think about.

1. You can’t control who you’re buying an item from. Even with rare items, with a population as large as GW2’s, it’s very possible that you have other people listing the said item. So it’s very easily that a gold seller, trying to buy the gold buyer’s items, buy other people’s item. And they’ll never know, until the buyer contacts back that the transaction has occured. A very inefficient system for both sides.

Heck, what’s to stop the gold buyer from lying to the seller saying “Hey, you haven’t gotten to my green yet?” And gaining a lot more gold than he paid for from the gold seller?

2. The prices on the items are pretty small and is very hard to obtain enough of these green items to do large transactions with this, which is the whole point. You want to avoid mailing large amounts of gold so Anet won’t flag you, which is why you’d resort to a method like this. But the sell listing of these items are tiny. If you’re dealing with gold buyers who only want to buy things of the 1-10G range, it’s much easier and more efficient to mail him directly.

Ursan.7846:

It can be somewhat hard to understand posts that don’t have spaces after punctuation and has no consistent capitalization at the beginning of sentences.

I can see that you’re bringing up trivial and petty things so i doubt your sincerity in trying to understand my explanation.As such i made that comment to see your intention,true enough you revealed to me that you’re just trying to personally attack me.Lets remain civil and lets move on. Good day to you Ursan. Kindly refrain from saying anything else to me, thank you.

I think the TP is full of careless people who don’t check properly what they’re buying sometimes. I’ve seen cases like these many times, lvl 6x exotics being sold for 5g with buy orders for 3g while the same item but a tier up (level 80) only had a highest sell order somewhere under 3g. So why are these lvl 6x pants worth more than the same ones at lvl 80 lol.

Lafiel.9372:

I think the TP is full of careless people who don’t check properly what they’re buying sometimes. I’ve seen cases like these many times, lvl 6x exotics being sold for 5g with buy orders for 3g while the same item but a tier up (level 80) only had a highest sell order somewhere under 3g. So why are these lvl 6x pants worth more than the same ones at lvl 80 lol.

because low level exotics are much rarer, and give you an advantage earlier. you cant craft level 6x exotics, and you seldom find them. Essentially the guy who wants to twink his charachter with the best gear and immolate low level stuff is the market. Also if you can be a level 60 with exotics, your fairly close to a level 80 with exotics in level downed areas.

Hawkian.6580:

killcannon.2576:

Bought two Penetrating Krytan weapons, sigiled them with of the nights, they did not become soulbound, but could not sell them on tp. Would suggest that natural dropped weapons of this type are rare since the ability to tp made ones is bugged.

That’s it then- thanks for trying. If you can do this with other sigils/weapons it’s definitely a bug, but either way that explains it.

You can not do that with any piece of equipment. Applying an upgrade will make an item account bound but that will not be displayed in the mouseover tooltip. Equipping it will make it soulbound if it is masterwork or higher. The only exception to this is the Ancient Karka Shell but that starts at Account Bound anyway.

phys.7689:

Lafiel.9372:

I think the TP is full of careless people who don’t check properly what they’re buying sometimes. I’ve seen cases like these many times, lvl 6x exotics being sold for 5g with buy orders for 3g while the same item but a tier up (level 80) only had a highest sell order somewhere under 3g. So why are these lvl 6x pants worth more than the same ones at lvl 80 lol.

because low level exotics are much rarer, and give you an advantage earlier. you cant craft level 6x exotics, and you seldom find them. Essentially the guy who wants to twink his charachter with the best gear and immolate low level stuff is the market. Also if you can be a level 60 with exotics, your fairly close to a level 80 with exotics in level downed areas.

While that may be true, I still find it hard to believe. It’s so easy to get from 6x to 80 so the 3-5 gold is a huge price to pay.

I profit in this topic to ask why the hell is the Superior Sigil of the Night that expensive ? When does it apply actually ? When it’s night in the game or when it’s night in the server’s country ? I really don’t get it (but I still make plenty of money with it eh).

Verdelet Arconia.6987:

how much is ecto price now?30-40+silver each. our code is 1234567

i instruct you to put up 3 ecto in the tp with the selling price of 123 gold 45 silver,67 copper each.

Sure, you can go ahead and do that, but there’s a problem. See, if I want to buy at a specific price, I am buying it at the lowest available price. Not a higher one. I can submit buy orders, but from what I recall doing so for Tier 4 Fine Materials once it just fills the order from low cost goods until you fill it.

Nachtz.4930:

I profit in this topic to ask why the hell is the Superior Sigil of the Night that expensive ? When does it apply actually ? When it’s night in the game or when it’s night in the server’s country ? I really don’t get it (but I still make plenty of money with it eh).

It’s not even that.

Sigils of the Night were introduced in late October 2012 with “Shadow of the Mad King”. There are, however, recipes you can have to make them; you would get them some of the time from the Trick or Treat Bags. For instance, apparently you can make the Minor Sigil with:

- 1 Iron Ingot
- 1 Charged/Onyx/Glacial Fragment
- 30 Candy Corn

And so on.

It looks as though people are trying to find the most complicated reason to explain this where there could be a much simlper explanation.

If I loot an item and check it’s value on the TP and find that it has sellers at 50s, that’s what I’m going to list it at. It doesn’t matter if its not worth anywhere near that, I’ll still list it for a price near to the sell orders. The item will probably just sit on the TP indefinetly not selling.

As for the high buy price, well this can be explained by people seeing the large gap in prices and thinking “If I put in a buy order at 25s I can then sell them at 50s and make loads of money” They may not think about whether the item will sell or not at the higher price.

I doubt there is any conspiracy, it’s just a market anomaly. Not everything in life can be attributed to aliens.

Honestly, I’ve long suspected that gold sellers are using the TP to launder money. The TP fee isn’t that much. Not necessarily the case here, but it’s just fishy that there are real buy orders.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Verdelet Arconia.6987:

how much is ecto price now?30-40+silver each. our code is 1234567

i instruct you to put up 3 ecto in the tp with the selling price of 123 gold 45 silver,67 copper each.

Sure, you can go ahead and do that, but there’s a problem. See, if I want to buy at a specific price, I am buying it at the lowest available price. Not a higher one. I can submit buy orders, but from what I recall doing so for Tier 4 Fine Materials once it just fills the order from low cost goods until you fill it.

ecto was just an exagerated example,read further. its already explained

Brave Sir Ryan.1240:

Honestly, I’ve long suspected that gold sellers are using the TP to launder money. The TP fee isn’t that much. Not necessarily the case here, but it’s just fishy that there are real buy orders.

I was thinking the exact same thing. Seen it happen in lots of mmo’s in this exact same manner.