Guild Wars 2

Nick.6972:

Warriors SHOULD deal more damage than any other profession.
Guardians SHOULD have more survivability than any other profession.

The point is, every profession should be unique and be capable of doing thing or two better than the other 7 professions.

It’s just stupid to ask for everyone do deal the same amount of damage, have equal heals etc.

This is true, and pretty much inevitable. If everyone does everything equally well, you end up with Rock-Paper-Scissors the MMO. The difficult part is, with eight classes (and people calling for more!) you quickly run out of things to be “the best” at, and you end up with a couple of classes that do a lot of things pretty well but don’t really stand out in any one category.

Engineers strike me as a “jack of all trades, master of none” sort of class, which has the versatility to adapt to a lot of different situations, but doesn’t really stand out as the required class for any particular situation. Warriors are the one trick pony that smash things real good but don’t do anything else.

It just happens that there aren’t a lot of situations in the game where you need to do a lot of different things quickly, so the engineer doesn’t really have a chance to step into the spotlight. While players have found one of the fastest/easiest ways to gather coin mostly requires the ability to kill stuff really really fast. So warriors have a “job” they excel at, while engineers do not.

The most interesting thing about MMOs, however, is that they are not static creations. This is a living, expanding world and it’s entirely possible that new content will come along that rewards a group for being able to take on a variety of challenges rather than just smashing through everything as quickly as possible.

ScottBroChill.3254:

Like, I mean, right now it isn’t a serious issue because the game is new and there’s only the few people who will shun certain professions. But, in the past in other games this is also true. Eventually it will get to the point where everyone has this “elitist” knowledge and a good majority will follow it like blind sheep and shun professions because “everyone else is doing it”.

Now, “you” may not have an issue with it. Even “your guild” might not and still play what they want. But, the problem is, those who play weaker professions for fun are definitely in the minority.

It will change. It always changes. In every game. This is the pattern.

1. A meta evolved. Something becomes more efficient.
2. Some people only want to do something the most efficient way so they start excluding people who don’t do or have X from a group.
3. Something changes and suddenly that thing doesn’t work as good as it once did.
4. A new meta evolves and it begins again.

Business as usual in every MMO. Yes, it has to change…and it will. If you don’t think it won’t, you don’t know Anet very well, because they kept changing things in Guild Wars 1 as this stuff evolved.

In Guild Wars 1 there was a point in time when all you saw was Ursan Rank 8. Everyone wanted one. Then the nerfed Ursan. Then there was a point where everyone wanted a perma-sin who could be permanently invulnerable to damage. How about in DOA? Remember when everyone wanted a rit with Destructive was Glaive or an imabgon paragon. And if you didn’t run one of those, well, it was a lot harder to get into groups. A lot harder.

I eventually made an imbagon just to get into groups. I didn’t love it, but I did it. Because I had to.

I don’t like this crap any more than you do. But I’m convinced it will always be with us.

Vayne.8563:

Vargs.6234:

I feel like half the posts in this entire forum are Vayne telling people that trust me, bad classes are fine (because…reasons?) and it doesn’t matter if they’re bad. Over and over and over again, all day, every day.

I never said bad classes are fine. I said bad classes don’t exist…except MAYBE engineer. The problem is I play with engineers in the guild and they do fine. Rangers are NOT as broken as people say they are. They’re perfectly viable.

Can they use some love. Sure. That’s not the same thing as saying they’re completely broken.

When someone says a profession is completely broken because another profession can do more DPS, that’s when I peak my nose in.

But maybe you haven’t noticed all the other people saying they’re doing just fine on those professions.

from my experience engineers have a variety of builds and is a very strong class, though underused and not well known by the community, because of how they used to be when the game just came out.
Necro and ranger are far weaker.

Vayne.8563:

In Guild Wars 1 there was a point in time when all you saw was Ursan Rank 8. Everyone wanted one. Then the nerfed Ursan. Then there was a point where everyone wanted a perma-sin who could be permanently invulnerable to damage. How about in DOA? Remember when everyone wanted a rit with Destructive was Glaive or an imabgon paragon. And if you didn’t run one of those, well, it was a lot harder to get into groups. A lot harder.

I eventually made an imbagon just to get into groups. I didn’t love it, but I did it. Because I had to.

I don’t like this crap any more than you do. But I’m convinced it will always be with us.

This is not a game issue, it’s a human nature issue. Until doctors figure out how to rewire our brains, it’s not going away.

Mirta.5029:

Vayne.8563:

Vargs.6234:

I feel like half the posts in this entire forum are Vayne telling people that trust me, bad classes are fine (because…reasons?) and it doesn’t matter if they’re bad. Over and over and over again, all day, every day.

I never said bad classes are fine. I said bad classes don’t exist…except MAYBE engineer. The problem is I play with engineers in the guild and they do fine. Rangers are NOT as broken as people say they are. They’re perfectly viable.

Can they use some love. Sure. That’s not the same thing as saying they’re completely broken.

When someone says a profession is completely broken because another profession can do more DPS, that’s when I peak my nose in.

But maybe you haven’t noticed all the other people saying they’re doing just fine on those professions.

from my experience engineers have a variety of builds and is a very strong class, though underused and not well known by the community, because of how they used to be when the game just came out.
Necro and ranger are far weaker.

I’m convinced that engineers are great in WvW and PvP, but need some help in PVe. But again, not much help. They just need….something.

Teracide.5137:

Some classes seem to be almost a “must have” (Warrior, Mesmer), while others seem to be considered useless (Ranger, Necro). Has ANet even considered buffs to the “lesser” classes?

It could be that I just have a shallow view of the classes, but I don’t think that’s the case. The “good” classes seem to be sought out, while the others are usually dismissed or kicked from groups.

I play a Zerk Warrior, and don’t have even the smallest issue getting invited to groups, while on my Necro, I couldn’t get a group to save my life. It’s really discouraging to not be able to play the class you want.

Necros are useful, can’t say the same for rangers.

Lafiel.9372:

Teracide.5137:

Some classes seem to be almost a “must have” (Warrior, Mesmer), while others seem to be considered useless (Ranger, Necro). Has ANet even considered buffs to the “lesser” classes?

It could be that I just have a shallow view of the classes, but I don’t think that’s the case. The “good” classes seem to be sought out, while the others are usually dismissed or kicked from groups.

I play a Zerk Warrior, and don’t have even the smallest issue getting invited to groups, while on my Necro, I couldn’t get a group to save my life. It’s really discouraging to not be able to play the class you want.

Necros are useful, can’t say the same for rangers.

Today we beat Arah with three rangers, a guardian and a mesmer. It was one of the smoothest arah runs I’d ever had.

I think part of the problem is the popularity of Strifey and his videos. Everyone thinks you have to play like he plays (not Strifey, the people copying him). And that group of people has been cancerous to the communtiy. I don’t even PUG dungeons anymore due to all the whining and ridiculous “l33t” behavior by kids who just copy everything Strifey does. Strifey is very efficient, sure, but most people copying him just don’t think for themselves at all and as soon as something goes off script they flip and rage quit.

While it’s true that some professions have more access to things you need to do the current DPS race that dungeons are, I think the true gap between professions is misunterstood. I’m hoping with the split skills patch in April, the lesser professions get a little overbuffed so opinions can quickly change. Playing a warrior is terribly boring and of course guardian will be awesome considering it’s ANET’s favorite profession. But playig a ranger is pure fun. :p

For me it’s simple, “Why are the classes so hit and miss?” It doesn’t matter what you play.

All of the content, even if you are an average player, is simplistic in design and level of effort to overcome.

The difference comes down to the only metric more aggressive players can come by to justify their “skills;” Time.

If we took another class we could beat this dungeon in 10 minutes vice 13. Who cares.

People have migrated to a simple game; with simple mechanics; and are trying to drive some sort of measure of worth to their gameplay. When time is the only result you can measure; since you don’t really progress in gear with any measure of significance; you start watching the stop watch.

“It’s costing me money if only get in 5 runs in an hour vice 6.” Well, that is the fault of the designers making you run the same dungeon 1000 times to get … a 1% ring upgrade… not the ranger and his pet.

somewhat agree…

my humble opinion is that all the classes can be played well by good players,
my fastest and best mid level fractals (20-30) were in group with ranger/engy/necro – no warrior and me the only guardian.

the issue as i see it is that you can stack guardians, warriors, mesmers and elementalists in party, but even second thief, engeneer, necro or ranger in the party are limiting more than adding.

and this is because (the reason i try to push in forums… ) condition centered professions are lacking comparing to raw damage professions.
if anet devs will wake up and make condition builds really viable:

by tweaking defiant – it will re-apply after 10-15 seconds and no after single interrupt.
and increasing the basic CC times of chill, cripple, immobilze, stun and daze in PVE)
then condition builds will be controllers and make easier for glass canons to survive.

or by making conditions crit , which will raise the condition profession DPS to be the same as the raw damage professions.

it will improve the gameplay and make all the professions attractive to play

Khai.6435:

For me it’s simple, “Why are the classes so hit and miss?” It doesn’t matter what you play.

All of the content, even if you are an average player, is simplistic in design and level of effort to overcome.

The difference comes down to the only metric more aggressive players can come by to justify their “skills;” Time.

If we took another class we could beat this dungeon in 10 minutes vice 13. Who cares.

People have migrated to a simple game; with simple mechanics; and are trying to drive some sort of measure of worth to their gameplay. When time is the only result you can measure; since you don’t really progress in gear with any measure of significance; you start watching the stop watch.

“It’s costing me money if only get in 5 runs in an hour vice 6.” Well, that is the fault of the designers making you run the same dungeon 1000 times to get … a 1% ring upgrade… not the ranger and his pet.

You are a smart person. I think it’s hilarious the balance team discusses how terrible it would be if ranger pets could tank a boss yet they’re totally cool with the two guardian two warrior and mesmer easy mode faceroll rofl easiness.

Chopps.5047:

Khai.6435:

For me it’s simple, “Why are the classes so hit and miss?” It doesn’t matter what you play.

All of the content, even if you are an average player, is simplistic in design and level of effort to overcome.

The difference comes down to the only metric more aggressive players can come by to justify their “skills;” Time.

If we took another class we could beat this dungeon in 10 minutes vice 13. Who cares.

People have migrated to a simple game; with simple mechanics; and are trying to drive some sort of measure of worth to their gameplay. When time is the only result you can measure; since you don’t really progress in gear with any measure of significance; you start watching the stop watch.

“It’s costing me money if only get in 5 runs in an hour vice 6.” Well, that is the fault of the designers making you run the same dungeon 1000 times to get … a 1% ring upgrade… not the ranger and his pet.

You are a smart person. I think it’s hilarious the balance team discusses how terrible it would be if ranger pets could tank a boss yet they’re totally cool with the two guardian two warrior and mesmer easy mode faceroll rofl easiness.

Not sure what the devs said or didn’t say on this, as I haven’t seen the quote, but I think having an AI tanking a boss is a mistake no matter what else was discussed. I’m also not sure the two things stated have anything to do with each other.

This will answer everything. In time my friends, in time.

I don’t really enjoy my Engineer in PvE. I love it in sPvP. I love my Ranger for both formats. I don’t play WvW so I can’t comment on that really. I love my Warrior in both, but I play it in totally different ways. The disparity between a good Ele and a bad Ele is a huge chasm.

Play what you like and hope that the devs can find a balance soon. I think we need skill splits like we already have rune and jewelry splits in spvp/pve. I just wish the devs would stop holding out on skill splits and do it already. In GW1, they did skill splits, but never reverted the Paragon back to its original strength for PvE and we ended up with only a handful of viable options for it. The Engineer is that way as well.

CC builds are great in spvp. They are terrible for PvE because boss mechanics. There is no need for trash mob CC. Mace/Mace Warrior(just a single example of awesome CC weapon set) is rendered completely useless in PvE, but works great in spvp. It would take some skill to use in PvE, but has no place because of boss mechanics the way they are.

Poplolita.2638:

@Guns and Giblets.9308 You do not have the required experience, according to your posts, to claim what is balanced and what is not, nor to tell who’s wrong or not; and this is a common and VALIDE ad hominem commonly used in every competitive games against people like you. I just think your lack of experience contradicts your position.

Back on topic.:::::

- What do you suggest to fix necromancer, ranger, thief, and engineer to be on part with warrior, mesmer, guardian, and elem.
- How pve mechanic should change for the better so those 4 professions shine once again?
- Is it time for ArenaNet to give dodge to bosses to indirectly nerf some playstyle, zerk for example, and encourage multi dot/condition/aoe playstyle?

Thanks, this is what some of us have been trying, in vayne, to discuss.

I like the direction of your suggestions. You can balance dps output, change PvE mechanics and make some fundamental changes to weapon skills. The first is the most realistic, the second will take significant time, and I doubt the third will ever be implemented, even though I think it’s the most necessary.

Changing DPS Output

As I see it, everything right now rotates around dps. Balance could entail greatly minimizing the difference in average dps of each class in most PvE scenarios.

I realize that is a tall order. But if your game doesn’t have set rolls, all that’s left with the current setup is determining which class arrangements produce the most damage. If you minimize the disparity between them, that would go a good ways to eliminating all but the most absurd elitism (e.g., taking one class over another in order to make the run a few seconds faster).

Part of that will entail a reworking of condition damage, and I agree with what’s already been said on that front.

Expand Current or Create New PvE Mechanics

You could also make mob control a larger part of the dungeon experience. I don’t know what that would look like specifically, but it could (emphasis on could) be interesting to introduce dungeons that require you to bring along rooting, blind, damage mitigation, etc. to manage some set of enemies while the rest of the team fights the others. To make this possible, a new set of skills that allows chained crowd control could be introduced.

More broadly, if you don’t use the trinity, you need new roles. Being able to reduce or center most content around the dps rush is neither entertaining nor engaging. I don’t have any brilliant ideas on this front, but this is why I am not a game designer.

Any new set of skills would require splitting PvE and PvP skills. (I would welcome that change generally.)

Semi-Off-Topic: PvP and Pros

I’ve played since beta and I have a level 80 elementalist with two sets of gear, one exotic berserker, the other rare/exotic knights. The second set of gear I made after I realized how weak and generally useless my berserker staff build was in PvP. I went Knight’s (mostly) D/D instead. I like the staff as a concept, but it’s slow aoe and the cap (!) on aoe effects renders me less-than-useful in zerg situations and all but a free kill in open PvP. This alludes to more fundamental design issues. For one, it’s expensive and time consuming to switch to a new gear set. This prevents me from being able to test a wide variety of options. Another is how the Elementalist’s staff skills are all (but one) aoe based. Without a weapon swap, it limits viability (not that I particularly want another “swap” to be added to the endless stance-dance that is the Elementalist’s life). But I’ve written enough already.

Finally, I was speaking of “pro” and “hardcore” as Vayne was using those terms in response to my posts. On his artificial, rigid framing of the issue, where only two categories exist, I’m not in his uber, elite, 1% that sits around and crunches numbers and loves to min/max. I don’t see how that means the many hours I’ve played and the many hours I’ve read up on these issues disqualifies me from speaking to them.

I don’t believe Anet is ever going to equalize the damage between professions. I also don’t believe that DPS is the only thing that counts. I understand the mindset that does believe this, but it’s still only a matter of opinion and play style.

There are always people out there who want to play a profession because of the feel of the profession rather than the numbers the profession generates.

And because Anet does tend to factor in other considerations, such as survivability and utility, it’s unlikely that they’ll equalize damage.

What they will more likely do is try to make the utility of other professions more useful but this is a dangerous move, particularly because they don’t want to create situations where one professions is required to clear content.

Right now, any group and clear content, some can just do it more efficiently. I’m not so sure that that’s a total problem from Anet’s point of view.

Vayne.8563:

I don’t believe Anet is ever going to equalize the damage between professions.

Evidence?

I also don’t believe that DPS is the only thing that counts. I understand the mindset that does believe this, but it’s still only a matter of opinion and play style.

If it’s a matter of opinion and play style, why do you care so much so as to visit these types of threads and dismiss our opinions and play styles as the exaggerated, pointless whining of a small minority?

There are always people out there who want to play a profession because of the feel of the profession rather than the numbers the profession generates.

Have you read this thread? People want both: they like the feel of some professions and want their contributions to damage output to be on par with other classes. You trade in false dichotomies.

And because Anet does tend to factor in other considerations, such as survivability and utility, it’s unlikely that they’ll equalize damage.

Please explain. Specifics and details would be helpful. (Stories of your subjective enjoyment playing various classes do not count.)

Nick.6972:

Warriors SHOULD deal more damage than any other profession.
Guardians SHOULD have more survivability than any other profession.

The point is, every profession should be unique and be capable of doing thing or two better than the other 7 professions.

It’s just stupid to ask for everyone do deal the same amount of damage, have equal heals etc.

Take the trinity and expand on it, add 5 more roles on already existing 3.

Blunt but i agree with you, but the issue is three classes are not unique or capable at all!

This is the problem at hand, and why so many dump the classes and say they are bad, because they bring zero to the table the other “better” classes can do in spades, which is the essence of why the thread was made, its just anet cannot see or are unwilling to see what a majority of the players are confronted with every day..

Khai.6435:

“It’s costing me money if only get in 5 runs in an hour vice 6.” Well, that is the fault of the designers making you run the same dungeon 1000 times to get … a 1% ring upgrade… not the ranger and his pet.

Its the devs fault for not catering to just those who most efficiently minmax?

There will always be a most efficient FOTM path to gaining loot. This is almost as ironclad a law of MMOs as there can be. Players will theorycraft, they’ll test, they’ll run all the dungeons, and soon the conventional wisdom forms that running certain setups will get you the gold faster. And then comes everyone who wants their quick route to the best stuff.

You want your gold in 5 runs instead of 6? Roll a zerk warrior. Then switch to the new FOTM when a quicker path opens. Its how its always been done, and how it always will be done for the foreseeable future.

They’re not going to be able to balance this game with the armor and health disparities.

The difference in health between a Warrior and an Elementalist is 7,500.
The difference in armor between a Warrior and an Elementalist is 300.

How do you balance this?

You give the Elementalist condition removal, mobility and healing to make up for the difference and everyone thinks the Elementalist is overpowered.

Vayne.8563:

There are always people out there who want to play a profession because of the feel of the profession rather than the numbers the profession generates.

I love the feel of Engineers and Necromancers. Otherwise I wouldn’t spend so much time lobbying for them to get numbers that suit those feels.

RebelYell.7132:

Vayne.8563:

There are always people out there who want to play a profession because of the feel of the profession rather than the numbers the profession generates.

I love the feel of Engineers and Necromancers. Otherwise I wouldn’t spend so much time lobbying for them to get numbers that suit those feels.

I also love both classes, Ranger too, i do not love how weak they feel and how nonviable they are compared to the other “better” classes like Mesmer and warrior, and i’ve played every class..

Dante, thanks for speaking my mind.

Those white-knighting it by positing player skill as the problem with the red-haired step childeren among the professions are really not helping. Any experienced gamer will recognize at once that there are basic problems in class design. Some, like engineer, need to be re-engineered. Others, like Necro, in addition to class-specific issues, suffer from how condition damage is handled in the game. There is actually a reason for the Guardian-Warrior-Mesmer trinity and it isn’t because all the bad players decided to take up the Necro, Ranger, or Engineer.

All the games I’ve played have learned the same lessons around damage over time. Player damage needs to be managed by player. In the case of DoT, that’s damage and ticks, not shared stacks on a mob. Several posters above, inconceivably, seem to think Necros are fine as they are. Because of the bleed cap, in any typical fight, a condition Necro is doing miniscule damage and if you added ten more of them the damage wouldn’t materially increase.

For the people who don’t understand the problems in a given area of the game it might be best to withhold comment in those threads dealing with them. There are problems. Having an opinion that there are no problems, or minimizing them, is not helpful. There are plenty of threads about diversity of armor or weapon skins that can benefit from more opinions. This area of the game can benefit less from opinions that everything is fine and more from constructive criticism and possible solutions.

RebelYell.7132:

Vayne.8563:

There are always people out there who want to play a profession because of the feel of the profession rather than the numbers the profession generates.

I love the feel of Engineers and Necromancers. Otherwise I wouldn’t spend so much time lobbying for them to get numbers that suit those feels.

Well said. I too love my necro, but it boils down to the time factor in pve. With a warrior it is dead and gone far far quicker than with either of these two professions and there is the problem. When you have survivability but little in the way of damage, such as you have with the necro, you must stick and move more thus leaving yourself open to having to avoid much more damage (dodge/kite) over time. One false move on a big attack can see you dead whereas the most glassy warrior, a built that is suppose to have inherit weaknesses of survivability, get a pass because it opponent lies bleeding much much faster.

Finding a nice medium for the devs will be difficult, but when your glass cannon necro provides at most a good tickle to the mob with the damage done as opposed to the warrior the balance is far overdone.

Poplolita.2638:

Guns and Giblets.9308:

Poplolita.2638:

“I’m not “really…into number crunching.” I’m not a “pro.” I don’t even play that much, let alone crack out the spreadsheets.”

If you don’t even play that much, why do you care so much about balance then??? Look, when you try to make a point, I don’t even know what it is, at least, don’t put contradictions here and there that hurts your credibility.

Well, I still play. And I would play more if balance issues were addressed.

Why do I have to be a hardcore player to care? I don’t understand the objection or how it’s a contradiction.

@Guns and Giblets.9308 You do not have the required experience, according to your posts, to claim what is balanced and what is not, nor to tell who’s wrong or not; and this is a common and VALIDE ad hominem commonly used in every competitive games against people like you. I just think your lack of experience contradicts your position.

Back on topic.:::::

- What do you suggest to fix necromancer, ranger, thief, and engineer to be on part with warrior, mesmer, guardian, and elem.
- How pve mechanic should change for the better so those 4 professions shine once again?
- Is it time for ArenaNet to give dodge to bosses to indirectly nerf some playstyle, zerk for example, and encourage multi dot/condition/aoe playstyle?

It’s not the player’s job to think of suggestions to fix the game’s broken areas. That’s ANet’s job. They get paid to do it.

And just because someone doesn’t use GW2 as a life-substitute, it doesn’t mean that their opinion on balance is completely invalidated. The problems are there, and easily apparent at all levels of play. You don’t have to play 100 hours a week to see that the class-balance is completely and utterly broken.

Dante.1508:

RebelYell.7132:

Vayne.8563:

There are always people out there who want to play a profession because of the feel of the profession rather than the numbers the profession generates.

I love the feel of Engineers and Necromancers. Otherwise I wouldn’t spend so much time lobbying for them to get numbers that suit those feels.

I also love both classes, Ranger too, i do not love how weak they feel and how nonviable they are compared to the other “better” classes like Mesmer and warrior, and i’ve played every class..

Same here. I have all the professions at 80 and love them all. Anet did a lot right and it’s always good to remember that when offering constructive criticism. The professions I rarely play are Engineer and Ranger. Ranger largely because it feels weak and because of the pet AI. (I mained a hunter in WoW for several years.) Engineer feels weak without grenades and ground targeted spam is an RSI in progress. Necro I actually love to play pretty much as is and it’s sad that the way condition damage is managed makes them irrelevant/redundant in groups.

SNAFU.2073:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e31OSVZF77w

This will answer everything. In time my friends, in time.

This video would only apply if ANet was actually tweaking the classes bit-by-bit. They’re not though. They’re just completely ignoring the existence of imbalance altogether, and doing nothing.

Raine.1394:

Dante.1508:

RebelYell.7132:

Vayne.8563:

There are always people out there who want to play a profession because of the feel of the profession rather than the numbers the profession generates.

I love the feel of Engineers and Necromancers. Otherwise I wouldn’t spend so much time lobbying for them to get numbers that suit those feels.

I also love both classes, Ranger too, i do not love how weak they feel and how nonviable they are compared to the other “better” classes like Mesmer and warrior, and i’ve played every class..

Same here. I have all the professions at 80 and love them all. Anet did a lot right and it’s always good to remember that when offering constructive criticism. The professions I rarely play are Engineer and Ranger. Ranger largely because it feels weak and because of the pet AI. (I mained a hunter in WoW for several years.) Engineer feels weak without grenades and ground targeted spam is an RSI in progress. Necro I actually love to play pretty much as is and it’s sad that the way condition damage is managed makes them irrelevant/redundant in groups.

I won’t deny the fun-level of certain classes, because it’s definitely there. That’s why I’m so annoyed that certain classes aren’t closer to a level of balance. I love my Necro. It’s probably my favorite class. I’d play it in all aspects of the game if groups allowed.

Guns and Giblets.9308:

Vayne.8563:

I don’t believe Anet is ever going to equalize the damage between professions.

Evidence?

I also don’t believe that DPS is the only thing that counts. I understand the mindset that does believe this, but it’s still only a matter of opinion and play style.

If it’s a matter of opinion and play style, why do you care so much so as to visit these types of threads and dismiss our opinions and play styles as the exaggerated, pointless whining of a small minority?

There are always people out there who want to play a profession because of the feel of the profession rather than the numbers the profession generates.

Have you read this thread? People want both: they like the feel of some professions and want their contributions to damage output to be on par with other classes. You trade in false dichotomies.

And because Anet does tend to factor in other considerations, such as survivability and utility, it’s unlikely that they’ll equalize damage.

Please explain. Specifics and details would be helpful. (Stories of your subjective enjoyment playing various classes do not count.)

Anet has NEVER equalized the damage between professions. I don’t believe they’re going to start now.

A lot of things I say about the game, generally, comes from years of reading, not only patchnotes, but explanations from devs of why changes were made. This was done in Guild Wars 1, and I really wish they’d do the same in Guild Wars 2. But for years, every time a major patch came out, there was an explanation on the Guild Wars 1 Wiki of why those changes were made. If you’re asking me for EVIDENCE that they’re not going to do this, I can’t give it to you. Because my educated guess is based on watching what the company did and how they explained it for years. How about you come back to me in a year or two and tell me if they did it. They won’t because they never have. It’s not how Anet thinks.

And yeah, I have read the thread…all of it. And I see a handful of people complaining. That’s all. That’s what I see. Are you saying this handful of people complaining is representative of the whole gaming community? If so, evidence?

Anet has it’s own standards which it works too. In Guild Wars 1, many of the same things were said in forums, and much of it Anet ignored as well. And some people left over it. And some people stayed.

You guys are all very smart, I’m sure of that. But that doesn’t mean you have a monopoly on an opinion or that you know what’s best for the game. If I was going to put money on Anet’s way or your way…I’d probably bet on Anet.

Vayne.8563:

You guys are all very smart, I’m sure of that. But that doesn’t mean you have a monopoly on an opinion or that you know what’s best for the game. If I was going to put money on Anet’s way or your way…I’d probably bet on Anet.

I’d probably bet on metrics myself. Lacking personal access to that, its in Anet we trust.

@Guns

Hey I have a challenge for you, since you accused me of not reading this thread. It’s very simple. Look at each post, list each name, and put a check next to them if they’re really troubled by the balance in this game and put an X next to their name if they think it’s basically okay or not that big a problem.

What you’ll find is that this thread is pretty much split 50/50 down the line. 50% of the people think there’s a problem and 50% of the people think there isn’t.

Keep in mind some of the people who think there aren’t problems are people playing the professions that everyone says are broken.

You accuse me of not reading the thread, but I’ve read it. Have you?

What I’ve been saying all along is true. A percentage of the people think that there’s a problem and a percentage doesn’t. It all comes down to your play style, as I said before. And there are more people out there than you believe who don’t see this as a problem.

The thing is, most people come to forums to complain (if you don’t admit at least that much there’s not much to talk about). So if half the people are saying it’s not much of a problem…maybe it’s not that much of a problem.

I think everyone agrees some changes need to be made. I don’t think everyone agrees the game balance is in the dire straits you think it is, nor do I think that everyone thinks that Anet isn’t doing anything about it.

And that link in the imperfect balance was worth watching btw.

Vayne.8563:

Guns and Giblets.9308:

Vayne.8563:

I don’t believe Anet is ever going to equalize the damage between professions.

Evidence?

I also don’t believe that DPS is the only thing that counts. I understand the mindset that does believe this, but it’s still only a matter of opinion and play style.

If it’s a matter of opinion and play style, why do you care so much so as to visit these types of threads and dismiss our opinions and play styles as the exaggerated, pointless whining of a small minority?

There are always people out there who want to play a profession because of the feel of the profession rather than the numbers the profession generates.

Have you read this thread? People want both: they like the feel of some professions and want their contributions to damage output to be on par with other classes. You trade in false dichotomies.

And because Anet does tend to factor in other considerations, such as survivability and utility, it’s unlikely that they’ll equalize damage.

Please explain. Specifics and details would be helpful. (Stories of your subjective enjoyment playing various classes do not count.)

Anet has NEVER equalized the damage between professions. I don’t believe they’re going to start now.

A lot of things I say about the game, generally, comes from years of reading, not only patchnotes, but explanations from devs of why changes were made. This was done in Guild Wars 1, and I really wish they’d do the same in Guild Wars 2. But for years, every time a major patch came out, there was an explanation on the Guild Wars 1 Wiki of why those changes were made. If you’re asking me for EVIDENCE that they’re not going to do this, I can’t give it to you. Because my educated guess is based on watching what the company did and how they explained it for years. How about you come back to me in a year or two and tell me if they did it. They won’t because they never have. It’s not how Anet thinks.

And yeah, I have read the thread…all of it. And I see a handful of people complaining. That’s all. That’s what I see. Are you saying this handful of people complaining is representative of the whole gaming community? If so, evidence?

Anet has it’s own standards which it works too. In Guild Wars 1, many of the same things were said in forums, and much of it Anet ignored as well. And some people left over it. And some people stayed.

You guys are all very smart, I’m sure of that. But that doesn’t mean you have a monopoly on an opinion or that you know what’s best for the game. If I was going to put money on Anet’s way or your way…I’d probably bet on Anet.

That’s what I don’t understand about you. You think having read many patch notes, MMO forums, and watching dev interviews on YouTube have made you an expert on all things MMO (it hasn’t). You’re basing your “educated” guess on what ANet did in the past with GW1, when ANet went a completely different direction with GW2 than they did with GW1.

It’s true that there’s only about 15-20 people in the thread acknowledging the imbalance of the classes, but there’s only about 2 people (you included) in here saying that everything is fine. That test-sample alone should at least hint something to you.

GW1 didn’t need classes to have balanced power because you rolled in groups of 8 and certain classes did things other classes can’t do.

In GW2 with solo player mode the #1 mode, they need to balance damage, because there aren’t 8 man teams.

Think before you speak Vayne.

Teracide.5137:

It’s true that there’s only about 15-20 people in the thread acknowledging the imbalance of the classes, but there’s only about 2 people (you included) in here saying that everything is fine. That test-sample alone should at least hint something to you.

Yes, it says you’re using a test sample of the Complaint Line Open Mic.

Teracide.5137:

Vayne.8563:

Guns and Giblets.9308:

Vayne.8563:

I don’t believe Anet is ever going to equalize the damage between professions.

Evidence?

I also don’t believe that DPS is the only thing that counts. I understand the mindset that does believe this, but it’s still only a matter of opinion and play style.

If it’s a matter of opinion and play style, why do you care so much so as to visit these types of threads and dismiss our opinions and play styles as the exaggerated, pointless whining of a small minority?

There are always people out there who want to play a profession because of the feel of the profession rather than the numbers the profession generates.

Have you read this thread? People want both: they like the feel of some professions and want their contributions to damage output to be on par with other classes. You trade in false dichotomies.

And because Anet does tend to factor in other considerations, such as survivability and utility, it’s unlikely that they’ll equalize damage.

Please explain. Specifics and details would be helpful. (Stories of your subjective enjoyment playing various classes do not count.)

Anet has NEVER equalized the damage between professions. I don’t believe they’re going to start now.

A lot of things I say about the game, generally, comes from years of reading, not only patchnotes, but explanations from devs of why changes were made. This was done in Guild Wars 1, and I really wish they’d do the same in Guild Wars 2. But for years, every time a major patch came out, there was an explanation on the Guild Wars 1 Wiki of why those changes were made. If you’re asking me for EVIDENCE that they’re not going to do this, I can’t give it to you. Because my educated guess is based on watching what the company did and how they explained it for years. How about you come back to me in a year or two and tell me if they did it. They won’t because they never have. It’s not how Anet thinks.

And yeah, I have read the thread…all of it. And I see a handful of people complaining. That’s all. That’s what I see. Are you saying this handful of people complaining is representative of the whole gaming community? If so, evidence?

Anet has it’s own standards which it works too. In Guild Wars 1, many of the same things were said in forums, and much of it Anet ignored as well. And some people left over it. And some people stayed.

You guys are all very smart, I’m sure of that. But that doesn’t mean you have a monopoly on an opinion or that you know what’s best for the game. If I was going to put money on Anet’s way or your way…I’d probably bet on Anet.

That’s what I don’t understand about you. You think having read many patch notes, MMO forums, and watching dev interviews on YouTube have made you an expert on all things MMO (it hasn’t). You’re basing your “educated” guess on what ANet did in the past with GW1, when ANet went a completely different direction with GW2 than they did with GW1.

It’s true that there’s only about 15-20 people in the thread acknowledging the imbalance of the classes, but there’s only about 2 people (you included) in here saying that everything is fine. That test-sample alone should at least hint something to you.

Haven’t you figured it out yet? He knows more than everyone. If he thinks you’re wrong he uses his own made up conjecture to prove he’s right and if you deny it he says that only a couple people are complaining and that is the nature of forums.

He doesn’t even want to use logic to talk about the game. He has reached level 80 fanboy.

clay.7849:

GW1 didn’t need classes to have balanced power because you rolled in groups of 8 and certain classes did things other classes can’t do.

In GW2 with solo player mode the #1 mode, they need to balance damage, because there aren’t 8 man teams.

Think before you speak Vayne.

Stop being offensive. Not the first time I’ve had to tell you this and not the last. I DO think before I speak. You probably do too, and I’d never insult you by suggesting otherwise. That’s one main difference between us. You must use personal insults for some reason. Do you think it makes your arguments stronger?

I disagree with what you’ve said about solo play vs. team play. In fact, the whole concept of balance is actually more concerning to most people on the team play end, particularly with the fact that certain groups aren’t welcomed in parties.

Many if not most of the people who solo play don’t compare themselves to other professions, if they have a profession they like. If they kill something slower it’s not bothering anybody. If anything solo players are more relaxed about stuff like this than team players.

clay.7849:

Teracide.5137:

Vayne.8563:

Guns and Giblets.9308:

Vayne.8563:

I don’t believe Anet is ever going to equalize the damage between professions.

Evidence?

I also don’t believe that DPS is the only thing that counts. I understand the mindset that does believe this, but it’s still only a matter of opinion and play style.

If it’s a matter of opinion and play style, why do you care so much so as to visit these types of threads and dismiss our opinions and play styles as the exaggerated, pointless whining of a small minority?

There are always people out there who want to play a profession because of the feel of the profession rather than the numbers the profession generates.

Have you read this thread? People want both: they like the feel of some professions and want their contributions to damage output to be on par with other classes. You trade in false dichotomies.

And because Anet does tend to factor in other considerations, such as survivability and utility, it’s unlikely that they’ll equalize damage.

Please explain. Specifics and details would be helpful. (Stories of your subjective enjoyment playing various classes do not count.)

Anet has NEVER equalized the damage between professions. I don’t believe they’re going to start now.

A lot of things I say about the game, generally, comes from years of reading, not only patchnotes, but explanations from devs of why changes were made. This was done in Guild Wars 1, and I really wish they’d do the same in Guild Wars 2. But for years, every time a major patch came out, there was an explanation on the Guild Wars 1 Wiki of why those changes were made. If you’re asking me for EVIDENCE that they’re not going to do this, I can’t give it to you. Because my educated guess is based on watching what the company did and how they explained it for years. How about you come back to me in a year or two and tell me if they did it. They won’t because they never have. It’s not how Anet thinks.

And yeah, I have read the thread…all of it. And I see a handful of people complaining. That’s all. That’s what I see. Are you saying this handful of people complaining is representative of the whole gaming community? If so, evidence?

Anet has it’s own standards which it works too. In Guild Wars 1, many of the same things were said in forums, and much of it Anet ignored as well. And some people left over it. And some people stayed.

You guys are all very smart, I’m sure of that. But that doesn’t mean you have a monopoly on an opinion or that you know what’s best for the game. If I was going to put money on Anet’s way or your way…I’d probably bet on Anet.

That’s what I don’t understand about you. You think having read many patch notes, MMO forums, and watching dev interviews on YouTube have made you an expert on all things MMO (it hasn’t). You’re basing your “educated” guess on what ANet did in the past with GW1, when ANet went a completely different direction with GW2 than they did with GW1.

It’s true that there’s only about 15-20 people in the thread acknowledging the imbalance of the classes, but there’s only about 2 people (you included) in here saying that everything is fine. That test-sample alone should at least hint something to you.

Haven’t you figured it out yet? He knows more than everyone. If he thinks you’re wrong he uses his own made up conjecture to prove he’s right and if you deny it he says that only a couple people are complaining and that is the nature of forums.

He doesn’t even want to use logic to talk about the game. He has reached level 80 fanboy.

I haven’t used any conjecture to prove anyone wrong or right. Show me where I said the professions don’t need some tweaking? Show me where I said that there aren’t some builds or groups that are more efficient than others. I’ll wait here.

What I said was it’s pretty much like this in every game, and that’s part of what happens in MMOs. If you think I’m making this conjecture up, then I don’t know what to tell you.

I’ve invited you to go visit other MMO forums and check for yourself.

clay.7849:

He has reached level 80 fanboy.

And as often as you follow him around the forum, some of us are inclined to think you’ve reached level 80 hater with Ascended and Legendary.

Uruz Six.6594:

Teracide.5137:

It’s true that there’s only about 15-20 people in the thread acknowledging the imbalance of the classes, but there’s only about 2 people (you included) in here saying that everything is fine. That test-sample alone should at least hint something to you.

Yes, it says you’re using a test sample of the Complaint Line Open Mic.

Wrong. I never said everything was fine. I said that it’s not the big deal people are making it out to be. That’s two different things. I’ve also said that it’s about the same here as it is in most startup MMOs at around this stage of development. That doesn’t translate to everything’s fine. It’s more like everything’s on schedule and that’s not particularly a bad thing.

More than 2 people in this thread have come out and said it’s not that bad, which is what I’ve been saying. A lot more. If you look at those for the OP and those against the OP, you’ll find it is split with roughly 12 people saying variations of what I’m saying and roughly 12 people agreeing with the OP.

Unless you decide to not count stuff that should be counted. This 20 to 2 count is completely disingenuous, since I actually DID count. I omitted the ones that commented but didn’t really pick a side and I was pretty lenient about giving your side their fair share.

You should try it again, and really look at what people are saying.

SNAFU.2073:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e31OSVZF77w

This will answer everything. In time my friends, in time.

This video is really cool. I love game theory.

Vayne.8563:

Stop being offensive. Not the first time I’ve had to tell you this and not the last. I DO think before I speak. You probably do too, and I’d never insult you by suggesting otherwise. That’s one main difference between us. You must use personal insults for some reason. Do you think it makes your arguments stronger?

Lol, what are you my dad?

“Yes daddy, I’ll stop being so mean on the interwebz, please don’t spank me…”

C’mon now, you are so full of yourself you think you can tell people how to act now?

I don’t care if my posts get removed. You think you are god’s gift to MMO forums and crusade against any little bit of negativity even if it has merit.

Stop trying to control everyone and using your pointless arguments to tell everyone they’re wrong. No one cares about your guild or how you play the game. Get over yourself. Seriously.

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

Stop being offensive. Not the first time I’ve had to tell you this and not the last. I DO think before I speak. You probably do too, and I’d never insult you by suggesting otherwise. That’s one main difference between us. You must use personal insults for some reason. Do you think it makes your arguments stronger?

Lol, what are you my dad?

“Yes daddy, I’ll stop being so mean on the interwebz, please don’t spank me…”

C’mon now, you are so full of yourself you think you can tell people how to act now?

I don’t care if my posts get removed. You think you are god’s gift to MMO forums and crusade against any little bit of negativity even if it has merit.

Stop trying to control everyone and using your pointless arguments to tell everyone they’re wrong. No one cares about your guild or how you play the game. Get over yourself. Seriously.

I’ll bet if you looked, you’d find negative threads I haven’t posted in at all. Of course, you haven’t looked, because you don’t do that kind of research. You just make snide statements that are demonstrably false.

For example you claim I’m a fan boy, but I’ve come out against Anet for some of the stuff they’re doing. I just don’t rant about it, because that serves no purpose. And I don’t personally insult people who disagree with me. I argue with them, without name calling.

Yes, I’m a fan of this game…because the other MMOs out there are mostly terrible to me. If that’s a problem for you, I’m not sorry about that. I won’t apologize for liking a game. Nor should I have to.

@ Guns and Giblets.9308 I take back what I said. I misunderstood your posts, and I apologize.

On topic:

“As I see it, everything right now rotates around dps. Balance could entail greatly minimizing the difference in average dps of each class in most PvE scenarios.

I realize that is a tall order. But if your game doesn’t have set rolls, all that’s left with the current setup is determining which class arrangements produce the most damage. If you minimize the disparity between them, that would go a good ways to eliminating all but the most absurd elitism (e.g., taking one class over another in order to make the run a few seconds faster)."
I don’t know what else I could add beside: I completly agree with you. I feel like we’re still in beta state: why would anyone start using other professions other than warrior when most dungeon bosses and mobs are just huge hp sponge that only requires you to dodge at the right time, and dish out insane dps. This is ridiculus.

“You could also make mob control a larger part of the dungeon experience. I don’t know what that would look like specifically, but it could (emphasis on could) be interesting to introduce dungeons that require you to bring along rooting, blind, damage mitigation, etc. to manage some set of enemies while the rest of the team fights the others. To make this possible, a new set of skills that allows chained crowd control could be introduced.”

They should also allow boss and mobs to gain insane boon so offensive dispel would be more relelevant in the current metagame; something necromancer excel at.

“Any new set of skills would require splitting PvE and PvP skills. (I would welcome that change generally.)”

If I remember well, the devs said in a thread that they will eventually split Pve, and pvp skills which indeed is a welcome change.

Found it: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/It-s-time-to-balance-PvP-apart-from-PvE-WvW/page/3#post1819990

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

Stop being offensive. Not the first time I’ve had to tell you this and not the last. I DO think before I speak. You probably do too, and I’d never insult you by suggesting otherwise. That’s one main difference between us. You must use personal insults for some reason. Do you think it makes your arguments stronger?

Lol, what are you my dad?

“Yes daddy, I’ll stop being so mean on the interwebz, please don’t spank me…”

C’mon now, you are so full of yourself you think you can tell people how to act now?

I don’t care if my posts get removed. You think you are god’s gift to MMO forums and crusade against any little bit of negativity even if it has merit.

Stop trying to control everyone and using your pointless arguments to tell everyone they’re wrong. No one cares about your guild or how you play the game. Get over yourself. Seriously.

I’ll bet if you looked, you’d find negative threads I haven’t posted in at all. Of course, you haven’t looked, because you don’t do that kind of research. You just make snide statements that are demonstrably false.

For example you claim I’m a fan boy, but I’ve come out against Anet for some of the stuff they’re doing. I just don’t rant about it, because that serves no purpose. And I don’t personally insult people who disagree with me. I argue with them, without name calling.

Yes, I’m a fan of this game…because the other MMOs out there are mostly terrible to me. If that’s a problem for you, I’m not sorry about that. I won’t apologize for liking a game. Nor should I have to.

No, you should apologize to everyone else that their opinions don’t matter and yours is the only one that does.

That is your problem. That is what you do in every thread. It goes as follows:

OP: I think opinion X, because of Y.

You: Your opinion is wrong because me and my guild prove it. My opinion is right.

OP: Yes, but look at logical statement X.

You: You’re still wrong. I’m right. My opinion is better and you are just a negative forum-goer.

OP: Whatever…

Basically every thread, except for that one where the OP was upset about engineer weapon skins. Ya, that’s important….

There are many reasons to be subjectively contented with a subpar profession. Maybe you have godlike reaction times, so that you never get downed when others do. Maybe you have four friends willing to carry you through anything. Maybe you’re the one that’s always happy to use a bundle item required for an encounter instead of using the skills you rolled that profession for.

Combat log parsers don’t lie, though. If you’re not pulling your share of the workload in terms of damage output or boon uptime, there’s one way to find out.

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

Stop being offensive. Not the first time I’ve had to tell you this and not the last. I DO think before I speak. You probably do too, and I’d never insult you by suggesting otherwise. That’s one main difference between us. You must use personal insults for some reason. Do you think it makes your arguments stronger?

Lol, what are you my dad?

“Yes daddy, I’ll stop being so mean on the interwebz, please don’t spank me…”

C’mon now, you are so full of yourself you think you can tell people how to act now?

I don’t care if my posts get removed. You think you are god’s gift to MMO forums and crusade against any little bit of negativity even if it has merit.

Stop trying to control everyone and using your pointless arguments to tell everyone they’re wrong. No one cares about your guild or how you play the game. Get over yourself. Seriously.

I’ll bet if you looked, you’d find negative threads I haven’t posted in at all. Of course, you haven’t looked, because you don’t do that kind of research. You just make snide statements that are demonstrably false.

For example you claim I’m a fan boy, but I’ve come out against Anet for some of the stuff they’re doing. I just don’t rant about it, because that serves no purpose. And I don’t personally insult people who disagree with me. I argue with them, without name calling.

Yes, I’m a fan of this game…because the other MMOs out there are mostly terrible to me. If that’s a problem for you, I’m not sorry about that. I won’t apologize for liking a game. Nor should I have to.

No, you should apologize to everyone else that their opinions don’t matter and yours is the only one that does.

That is your problem. That is what you do in every thread. It goes as follows:

OP: I think opinion X, because of Y.

You: Your opinion is wrong because me and my guild prove it. My opinion is right.

OP: Yes, but look at logical statement X.

You: You’re still wrong. I’m right. My opinion is better and you are just a negative forum-goer.

OP: Whatever…

Basically every thread, except for that one where the OP was upset about engineer weapon skins. Ya, that’s important….

Where did I say the OP’s opinion was wrong? Can you show me this? I’ll wait here.

What I said was I disagree with the OP’s opinion. I wasn’t aware that disagreeing with an opinion was a crime.

The OP feels this is a serious matter that must be fixed. I feel this is a normal state of affairs in a relatively new MMO that’s being fixed.

You keep putting words into my mouth. That doesn’t help any of your arguments either.

Vayne.8563:

I’ll bet if you looked, you’d find negative threads I haven’t posted in at all. Of course, you haven’t looked, because you don’t do that kind of research. You just make snide statements that are demonstrably false.

How narcissistic are you to think you’re even worth that kind of research? I’m with clay on this one. Get over yourself.

RebelYell.7132:

There are many reasons to be subjectively contented with a subpar profession. Maybe you have godlike reaction times, so that you never get downed when others do. Maybe you have four friends willing to carry you through anything. Maybe you’re the one that’s always happy to use a bundle item required for an encounter instead of using the skills you rolled that profession for.

And maybe they and their friends are actually content with how their class performs.

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

Stop being offensive. Not the first time I’ve had to tell you this and not the last. I DO think before I speak. You probably do too, and I’d never insult you by suggesting otherwise. That’s one main difference between us. You must use personal insults for some reason. Do you think it makes your arguments stronger?

Lol, what are you my dad?

“Yes daddy, I’ll stop being so mean on the interwebz, please don’t spank me…”

C’mon now, you are so full of yourself you think you can tell people how to act now?

I don’t care if my posts get removed. You think you are god’s gift to MMO forums and crusade against any little bit of negativity even if it has merit.

Stop trying to control everyone and using your pointless arguments to tell everyone they’re wrong. No one cares about your guild or how you play the game. Get over yourself. Seriously.

I’ll bet if you looked, you’d find negative threads I haven’t posted in at all. Of course, you haven’t looked, because you don’t do that kind of research. You just make snide statements that are demonstrably false.

For example you claim I’m a fan boy, but I’ve come out against Anet for some of the stuff they’re doing. I just don’t rant about it, because that serves no purpose. And I don’t personally insult people who disagree with me. I argue with them, without name calling.

Yes, I’m a fan of this game…because the other MMOs out there are mostly terrible to me. If that’s a problem for you, I’m not sorry about that. I won’t apologize for liking a game. Nor should I have to.

No, you should apologize to everyone else that their opinions don’t matter and yours is the only one that does.

That is your problem. That is what you do in every thread. It goes as follows:

OP: I think opinion X, because of Y.

You: Your opinion is wrong because me and my guild prove it. My opinion is right.

OP: Yes, but look at logical statement X.

You: You’re still wrong. I’m right. My opinion is better and you are just a negative forum-goer.

OP: Whatever…

Basically every thread, except for that one where the OP was upset about engineer weapon skins. Ya, that’s important….

Where did I say the OP’s opinion was wrong? Can you show me this? I’ll wait here.

What I said was I disagree with the OP’s opinion. I wasn’t aware that disagreeing with an opinion was a crime.

The OP feels this is a serious matter that must be fixed. I feel this is a normal state of affairs in a relatively new MMO that’s being fixed.

You keep putting words into my mouth. That doesn’t help any of your arguments either.

Keep telling yourself that…

Disagreeing isn’t a crime. Telling someone their opinion doesn’t matter because yours is better is the problem you have.

That and the fact that you tell people they are in the minority because your guild doesn’t agree. And the fact that you use your godlike MMO knowledge to tell everyone they’re wrong too.