Guild Wars 2

I’m just curious. In my opinion, world bosses should work as raids, but let’s face it, if you can kill it easily under five minutes, and it doesn’t offer any challenge like bosses in Fractals for example, then it’s not really such a “raid boss”.

On the other hand, raid bosses could have some really story and great buildup as you fight through his champions and minions.

So why are people against raids?
They don’t want GW2 to turn into another WoW clone?

People aren’t against raids. People are against WoW style raids, which is the only type of raids most people have ever been exposed to (since games like Rift copied the raid style almost exactly).

The problem isn’t the raids themselves, but what they represent, which is the gearing up to get to them.

I seriously doubt anyone would hate a raid you could jump into. People hate raids because in almost every game, you have to gear up for them, usually requiring a lot of grind to experience the content.

Guild Wars 2 players, on the whole, prefer cosmetic grind, to required gear grind.

Vayne.8563:

People aren’t against raids. People are against WoW style raids, which is the only type of raids most people have ever been exposed to (since games like Rift copied the raid style almost exactly).

The problem isn’t the raids themselves, but what they represent, which is the gearing up to get to them.

I seriously doubt anyone would hate a raid you could jump into. People hate raids because in almost every game, you have to gear up for them, usually requiring a lot of grind to experience the content.

Guild Wars 2 players, on the whole, prefer cosmetic grind, to required gear grind.

Thanks for the clarification.

When I think of raid (haven’t played WoW or any other MMO), the first thing that comes on my mind is something like Fractals but for 5-15 people. On the other hand, doesn’t Fractals use the same “gearing up” system for level 10 and above with Agony resistance infusions?

As for me, I wouldn’t mind seeing raids as long as you don’t earn tiers of new gear from it, but some unique skins, titles, T6 materials, or even unique armor or gear sets as a random drop ( such as Ogden’s armor for example) would be a nice reward.

Most of the people who post here seem to hate social interaction. Raids would be a horror for them.

Oh come on, we’re not nerds that are afraid of social interaction, but social interaction is kinda bad in this game. I take myself as an example, I’ve been a big guild for months now, and we rarely talk, I don’t even say “hi” on guild chat, and most of other guildmates do the same.

Same goes for the open world PVE.

Mentalhead.5721:

Vayne.8563:

People aren’t against raids. People are against WoW style raids, which is the only type of raids most people have ever been exposed to (since games like Rift copied the raid style almost exactly).

The problem isn’t the raids themselves, but what they represent, which is the gearing up to get to them.

I seriously doubt anyone would hate a raid you could jump into. People hate raids because in almost every game, you have to gear up for them, usually requiring a lot of grind to experience the content.

Guild Wars 2 players, on the whole, prefer cosmetic grind, to required gear grind.

Thanks for the clarification.

When I think of raid (haven’t played WoW or any other MMO), the first thing that comes on my mind is something like Fractals but for 5-15 people. On the other hand, doesn’t Fractals use the same “gearing up” system for level 10 and above with Agony resistance infusions?

As for me, I wouldn’t mind seeing raids as long as you don’t earn tiers of new gear from it, but some unique skins, titles, T6 materials, or even unique armor or gear sets as a random drop ( such as Ogden’s armor for example) would be a nice reward.

Fractals was designed specifically to give people who like this play style something to do in Guild Wars 2. That was it’s intention.

However, there is one HUGE difference between what Fractals offers and what other games offer as far as Raids go.

In other games, if you don’t gear up for the raid, you don’t see the content. But anyone can see the content in fractals, without actually doing the higher levels. You still see all nine fractals, just not the harder modes.

You can actually go all the way to level 20 in fractals, by just playing. You don’t have to have agony resistence to do let’s say a 17th level fractal (if you’re good enough).

However, once you do ten level ten fractals, you automatically have a ring that gives you the ability to add agony resistence to your character. You’d most likely have gotten a ring before that point from one of the daily chests. When you have two rings, you automatically have enough to continue past level 20 and in fact go all the way to thirty.

Now hear is the interesting bit. From what I understand level 38 is sort of the sweet spot, because everything drops in it. And you can do level 38 fractals by only getting stuff that drops in the fractals, so it’s self contained.

No other game can make the claim. You can still go higher with easy to get gear from dailies and guild missions, but make no mistake, because everyone can see the content and because it’s completely self contained, it’s completely different than the raid model found in other games.

Mentalhead.5721:

Oh come on, we’re not nerds that are afraid of social interaction, but social interaction is kinda bad in this game. I take myself as an example, I’ve been a big guild for months now, and we rarely talk, I don’t even say “hi” on guild chat, and most of other guildmates do the same.

Same goes for the open world PVE.

That means the social interaction is bad in your guild. I’m in a guild that doesn’t shut up. Depends on the guild. The bigger the guild, the more likely you’ll have less chatter.

I mean who can deal with a couple of hundred people all chatting in the same channel.

Also, many guilds employ voice chat servers, and a lot of the “chat” goes on there instead of guild chat in game.

Mentalhead.5721:

Oh come on, we’re not nerds that are afraid of social interaction, but social interaction is kinda bad in this game. I take myself as an example, I’ve been a big guild for months now, and we rarely talk, I don’t even say “hi” on guild chat, and most of other guildmates do the same.

Same goes for the open world PVE.

big guild

Yeah there is your problem.

But there are so many people in the forums who complain about content that is made for big groups or even groups at all.

The problem is that raids wouldn’t work very well in this game. Remember how dynamic events looked at launch? That’s basically how raids would look in this game: monstrous zergs… just with more “dodge that one-hit-KO.”

The reason is that when the developers decided to drop the “trinity”, they traded rich team interactions for more character individuality and freedom. This causes the PvE encounters to focus on each individual player instead of the group as a whole, and you can’t make very interesting large scale PvE encounters like those you see in other MMOs such as WoW if it’s always everyone for himself. If they made raids with that kind of team interaction, they’d probably have to make everything a one-hit-KO to keep the encounters difficult, and it wouldn’t be fun at all. That’s why I think that raids would not work.

With 5-player teams their design works because losing one player out of 5 is a big deal so they can challenge the players’ dodging and kiting skills without having to make every missed dodge a one-hit KO.

I am strongly against jumping puzzles of any kind.

I think they should re-design the dragon encounters to something like the karka queen encounter, or even harder.

then the world bosses will be “raids”.

Vayne.8563:

Mentalhead.5721:

Oh come on, we’re not nerds that are afraid of social interaction, but social interaction is kinda bad in this game. I take myself as an example, I’ve been a big guild for months now, and we rarely talk, I don’t even say “hi” on guild chat, and most of other guildmates do the same.

Same goes for the open world PVE.

That means the social interaction is bad in your guild. I’m in a guild that doesn’t shut up. Depends on the guild. The bigger the guild, the more likely you’ll have less chatter.

I mean who can deal with a couple of hundred people all chatting in the same channel.

Also, many guilds employ voice chat servers, and a lot of the “chat” goes on there instead of guild chat in game.

Oh kitten. Here I go again agreeing with you, even had to give you a thumbs up. I have been with the guild I’m in for 6+ years coming from GW1 where we at one point had 1500+ members(think about 300+ on vent at the same time, chaotic). Here in GW2 we are trying to keep the numbers much lower and still at times the chatter in TS is so wild I must mute them so I could stop laughing long enough to concentrate on my farming escapades. Just an LOL moment.

EDIT: I had to reword part of sentence to remove the underline it was getting, for some reason it doesn’t like the + 1 so reworded to thumbs up.

Im Mudbone.1437:

Vayne.8563:

Mentalhead.5721:

Oh come on, we’re not nerds that are afraid of social interaction, but social interaction is kinda bad in this game. I take myself as an example, I’ve been a big guild for months now, and we rarely talk, I don’t even say “hi” on guild chat, and most of other guildmates do the same.

Same goes for the open world PVE.

That means the social interaction is bad in your guild. I’m in a guild that doesn’t shut up. Depends on the guild. The bigger the guild, the more likely you’ll have less chatter.

I mean who can deal with a couple of hundred people all chatting in the same channel.

Also, many guilds employ voice chat servers, and a lot of the “chat” goes on there instead of guild chat in game.

Oh kitten. Here I go again agreeing with you, even had to give you a 1, I have been with the guild I’m in for 6 years coming from GW1 where we at one point had 1500+ members(think about 300+ on vent at the same time, chaotic). Here in GW2 we are trying to keep the numbers much lower and still at times the chatter in TS is so wild I must mute them so I could stop laughing long enough to concentrate on my farming escapades. Just an LOL moment.

I was in Mara in Guild Wars 1, and it was pretty chatty…even though it was a big big alliance, but it was the same 20 people chatting every night. And that was later when it had slowed down quite a bit.

I couldn’t imagine how bad it would have been in the early days.

I have a guild of about 100 now, with about 20-30 active members, and we usually have chatter.

Id love to see a raid, take down a gw2 main boss and all his champions

A lot of the pluses of instanced raiding had a big minus along side. So it was great to have two to four groups of people working together and awful when you had the wrong number of people or people wanted to leave. It was great that the epic dungeons gave you hours of play but awful that the raid schedule destroyed everyone’s real life. It was great that people could come together in guilds to tackle the raids and awful that people were forced to join raiding guilds to complete raids.

In the end, the bad things outweighed the good things.

kokiman.2364:

Most of the people who post here seem to hate social interaction. Raids would be a horror for them.

It isn’t social interaction that most people here dislike, it is social exclusion.

Don’t have this gear, get out.
Don’t have this class, get out.
Don’t have this build, get out.
Don’t have this level, get out.
Miss a dodge because the battle has been going on forever because you’re the only one doing good damage, get out.
You’re the only one not doing good damage, get out.
You haven’t watched the dungeon/event on YouTube beforehand to see the most efficient way to do every bit, get out.

In the end, everything where structured grouping is required in this game devolves to this. If you don’t hit an event or dungeon early, as in the first few hours, it gets progressively harder to find a group that you can play through it with. And when you do, you get one or two people that ragequit when it becomes evident it isn’t going to be a speedrun becasue it is the first time for one or more of the group.

MisterEction.9382:

kokiman.2364:

Most of the people who post here seem to hate social interaction. Raids would be a horror for them.

It isn’t social interaction that most people here dislike, it is social exclusion.

Don’t have this gear, get out.
Don’t have this class, get out.
Don’t have this build, get out.
Don’t have this level, get out.
Miss a dodge because the battle has been going on forever because you’re the only one doing good damage, get out.
You’re the only one not doing good damage, get out.
You haven’t watched the dungeon/event on YouTube beforehand to see the most efficient way to do every bit, get out.

In the end, everything where structured grouping is required in this game devolves to this. If you don’t hit an event or dungeon early, as in the first few hours, it gets progressively harder to find a group that you can play through it with. And when you do, you get one or two people that ragequit when it becomes evident it isn’t going to be a speedrun becasue it is the first time for one or more of the group.

This is probably the least true post I’ve seen on these forums. Maybe you’re just hanging around with the wrong type of people. While this element does exist in this game, it exists no more in this game than other MMOs, in fact, considerably less in my experience.

In fact, I only ever hear this happening in speed runs. And in Guild Wars 1, it happened in speed runs there too.

MisterEction.9382:

kokiman.2364:

Most of the people who post here seem to hate social interaction. Raids would be a horror for them.

It isn’t social interaction that most people here dislike, it is social exclusion.

Don’t have this gear, get out.
Don’t have this class, get out.
Don’t have this build, get out.
Don’t have this level, get out.
Miss a dodge because the battle has been going on forever because you’re the only one doing good damage, get out.
You’re the only one not doing good damage, get out.
You haven’t watched the dungeon/event on YouTube beforehand to see the most efficient way to do every bit, get out.

In the end, everything where structured grouping is required in this game devolves to this. If you don’t hit an event or dungeon early, as in the first few hours, it gets progressively harder to find a group that you can play through it with. And when you do, you get one or two people that ragequit when it becomes evident it isn’t going to be a speedrun becasue it is the first time for one or more of the group.

I just checked. I did like 160 Dungeonpaths and I have yet to find a group that wanted to see my gear, my build or complained about a missed dodge.

Most of the people who post/complain here hate social interactivity in the game and challenges.

Can’t do a dungeon first try? A.NET HATES CASUALS OMG
Can’t finish a guildbounty/mission first try? ^
Can’t do a jumping puzzle? A.NET HATES CASUALS AND DISABLED PLAYERS!!

Most of the people here don’t even want to “play” the game anymore. They just want the fanciest gear without doing anything, complain about little stuff and tell everyone how they are the ones that know how everything works.

Im not sure but i want some sort of Raid Content for GW2 , something that is challenging and have to work towards. Something i wont be able to beat in an hour or two and that i will want a group of people to run with that have learned to work together.

Mentalhead.5721:

I
So why are people against raids?
They don’t want GW2 to turn into another WoW clone?

The only thing raid related I am against is a raid mechanic that revolves around the best gear/rewards coming only from raids. I’ve been a raider for a long time, and I’ve always been appalled by my fellow raiders believing that they, and they alone, deserve all the best rewards because of the “hard work” we put into it (maybe I was the only one enjoying the raids, cause I never looked at it as “hard work”…)

If a game could implement raids with the exact same rewards as those found outside of raids, minus say achievements or titles, then I would agree entirely with raids being introduced.

tl;dr- many MANY raiders have a sense of entitlement that is simply out of control. I, at least, don’t want to introduce that to this game.

I was once a hardcore raider in WoW; in fact it’s still in my nature to min/max in that game thanks to all the years I spent raiding even though I haven’t touched a non LFR raid since Mists released. Raiding in that game brought me some of the best memories I’ve ever had in a game thanks to the interactions I had with friends and enjoyment of completing some of the hardest fights the game had to offer.

When you’re in a raiding guild and you actually enjoy raiding it doesn’t feel like much of a grind to get gear, it just sort of happens over the weeks as you progress. The problem comes when you don’t really enjoy raiding but you still want that better gear that you see other people running around with so you join a raiding guild and you end up doing something you don’t really enjoy.

What I’ve witnessed from gaming all these years is that people just want to feel like they are on an even footing with everyone else and will chase the best stat gear because it’s better than what they have. If it requires doing something they don’t like to get then the complaints start piling up and people either continue to do it while not having fun or quit. Either results in players feeling dissatisfied and that’s something no developer wants to happen.

I’ve always liked the GW approach to gearing a max level character out; make it easy to get and let the look of the armor/weapon be the reward for harder content, and if raids were added to GW 2 with special skins as the only reward for doing them I wouldn’t have a problem with that at all, but how many people would enjoy doing them is another thing. I would suggest rewarding guild commendations or laurels for completing them as well, but one has to be careful because you just open the door for more complaints about it being unfair to small guilds/groups who aren’t able to get these bonuses.

In the end you can’t design for everyone.

The only thing raid related I am against is a raid mechanic that revolves around the best gear/rewards coming only from raids. I’ve been a raider for a long time, and I’ve always been appalled by my fellow raiders believing that they, and they alone, deserve all the best rewards because of the “hard work” we put into it (maybe I was the only one enjoying the raids, cause I never looked at it as “hard work”…)

I just want to add my opinion on this statement. “Hard work” is indeed required to take down the hardest bosses in the raid. Officers put in a lot of extra time out of raids coming up with strategies to use and everyone in the guild puts in time to gather consumables for the week. Executing a strategy correctly takes concentration from everyone and when people start to mess up it’s very taxing on the officers and leaders of the guild to keep people from getting discouraged.

While it is indeed a game, it does take hard work to run a raid and I don’t see a problem with rewarding all that effort, but I agree with you that the reward doesn’t need to be the “best gear”; unique skins and faster currencies would be fine to me.

Mentalhead.5721:

I’m just curious. In my opinion, world bosses should work as raids, but let’s face it, if you can kill it easily under five minutes, and it doesn’t offer any challenge like bosses in Fractals for example, then it’s not really such a “raid boss”.

On the other hand, raid bosses could have some really story and great buildup as you fight through his champions and minions.

So why are people against raids?
They don’t want GW2 to turn into another WoW clone?

Because it takes an incredible amount of time and resources to make a raid, it becomes the dominant thing in the game as “raiders” demaind the best gear, and so peple feel compelled to do it. and yet overall only a minority of hte player base runs raids…..so its a massive amount of investment for very little gain for most of the playerbase.

I’d prefer Anet making some decent open world fights, maybe taking inspiration from other games (cough, rift, cough).

Mentalhead.5721:

Oh come on, we’re not nerds that are afraid of social interaction, but social interaction is kinda bad in this game. I take myself as an example, I’ve been a big guild for months now, and we rarely talk, I don’t even say “hi” on guild chat, and most of other guildmates do the same.

Same goes for the open world PVE.

I agree with you here. It’s not the players but actually the game itself. Some people communicate or socialize only if they absolutely have to in specific circumstances. This game feels like a single-player game and seems to work against the whole idea of socializing. People in guilds don’t talk because there isn’t anything to talk about.

The game really does feel like a single-player game. Guilds really don’t matter and serve almost no purpose besides WvW. It’s ironic that this game was heavily focused on guilds but then there isn’t anything for guilds TO DO. Sorry, it’s not motivating to ask people to log on to do jumping puzzles and little micro-content. This is why I agree with Dontain about those issues.

My guild doesn’t log on anymore and I’ve pretty much stopped playing for now. ArenaNet really needs to start investing time in GUILD content such as raids. And yes, the current loot/drop system is just plain bad. Take a hint from Dontain’s video being critical towards ArenaNet about the success of previous MMO’s with their loot system. I don’t want to play D3 within GW2 for items.

Vayne.8563:

MisterEction.9382:

kokiman.2364:

Most of the people who post here seem to hate social interaction. Raids would be a horror for them.

It isn’t social interaction that most people here dislike, it is social exclusion.

Don’t have this gear, get out.
Don’t have this class, get out.
Don’t have this build, get out.
Don’t have this level, get out.
Miss a dodge because the battle has been going on forever because you’re the only one doing good damage, get out.
You’re the only one not doing good damage, get out.
You haven’t watched the dungeon/event on YouTube beforehand to see the most efficient way to do every bit, get out.

In the end, everything where structured grouping is required in this game devolves to this. If you don’t hit an event or dungeon early, as in the first few hours, it gets progressively harder to find a group that you can play through it with. And when you do, you get one or two people that ragequit when it becomes evident it isn’t going to be a speedrun becasue it is the first time for one or more of the group.

This is probably the least true post I’ve seen on these forums. Maybe you’re just hanging around with the wrong type of people. While this element does exist in this game, it exists no more in this game than other MMOs, in fact, considerably less in my experience.

In fact, I only ever hear this happening in speed runs. And in Guild Wars 1, it happened in speed runs there too.

Who do you hang out with? Do you PUG or run with the same people? If you’re claiming you PUG and you’ve never seen this, that would be the least true post I’ve ever seen in the forums.

This is the only MMO I play, so how often it happens here compared to others is meaningless to me. It still happens too often.

Look, you can create a magnificent looking MMO with great visuals. If there isn’t much to do with your friends than you will find something else to do. Right now, GW2 is suffering from a stagnant system that forces people away from their game.

I’m afraid ArenaNet doesn’t have the interest or budget to fix the issues at the core of the game. Guilds are incredibly meaningless within the PvE aspect. The idea of even joining multiple guilds is really not that great of an idea. Statistics reveal that it causes more harm than good.

I mean, even the magic find stat is completely ridiculous. It’s little things like this that makes you wonder why it’s even part of the game. And this is why I said it feels like a single-player game.

Because they’re long and boring.
What makes it worse in other MMOs though is that you waste a massive chunk of your time preparing and doing them and get nothing outa it cuz you lost every loot roll and/or the RNG warlord was on PMS that day.
Plus there’s the grind required to reach them as mentioned.

Tolmos.8395:

Mentalhead.5721:

I
So why are people against raids?
They don’t want GW2 to turn into another WoW clone?

The only thing raid related I am against is a raid mechanic that revolves around the best gear/rewards coming only from raids. I’ve been a raider for a long time, and I’ve always been appalled by my fellow raiders believing that they, and they alone, deserve all the best rewards because of the “hard work” we put into it (maybe I was the only one enjoying the raids, cause I never looked at it as “hard work”…)

If a game could implement raids with the exact same rewards as those found outside of raids, minus say achievements or titles, then I would agree entirely with raids being introduced.

tl;dr- many MANY raiders have a sense of entitlement that is simply out of control. I, at least, don’t want to introduce that to this game.

Agree with this. To add to that, the one thing I hated about raids was it was exclusive content. The content of the raid should also have at the very least a 5 man version as well.

MisterEction.9382:

Vayne.8563:

MisterEction.9382:

kokiman.2364:

Most of the people who post here seem to hate social interaction. Raids would be a horror for them.

It isn’t social interaction that most people here dislike, it is social exclusion.

Don’t have this gear, get out.
Don’t have this class, get out.
Don’t have this build, get out.
Don’t have this level, get out.
Miss a dodge because the battle has been going on forever because you’re the only one doing good damage, get out.
You’re the only one not doing good damage, get out.
You haven’t watched the dungeon/event on YouTube beforehand to see the most efficient way to do every bit, get out.

In the end, everything where structured grouping is required in this game devolves to this. If you don’t hit an event or dungeon early, as in the first few hours, it gets progressively harder to find a group that you can play through it with. And when you do, you get one or two people that ragequit when it becomes evident it isn’t going to be a speedrun becasue it is the first time for one or more of the group.

This is probably the least true post I’ve seen on these forums. Maybe you’re just hanging around with the wrong type of people. While this element does exist in this game, it exists no more in this game than other MMOs, in fact, considerably less in my experience.

In fact, I only ever hear this happening in speed runs. And in Guild Wars 1, it happened in speed runs there too.

Who do you hang out with? Do you PUG or run with the same people? If you’re claiming you PUG and you’ve never seen this, that would be the least true post I’ve ever seen in the forums.

This is the only MMO I play, so how often it happens here compared to others is meaningless to me. It still happens too often.

I’ve never seen it either.

I only see that kind of negativity on these forums.

In game I PUG a LOT, and I never see this. But I don’t do CoF exp. Other than once for each of them to get it on my achievements list. I know that’s the place farmers go. All the negative minded people will be there. I avoid it.

MisterEction.9382:

Who do you hang out with? Do you PUG or run with the same people? If you’re claiming you PUG and you’ve never seen this, that would be the least true post I’ve ever seen in the forums.

This is the only MMO I play, so how often it happens here compared to others is meaningless to me. It still happens too often.

Kichwas.7152:

I’ve never seen it either.

I only see that kind of negativity on these forums.

In game I PUG a LOT, and I never see this. But I don’t do CoF exp. Other than once for each of them to get it on my achievements list. I know that’s the place farmers go. All the negative minded people will be there. I avoid it.

The only farmers I’ve seen with a negative attitude are the ones in places where they can limit who else farms because of forced grouping. In open world PVE, people who farm are pretty much universally helpful IME.

GW2 open world raids remind me a great deal of FF11 raids where it was fake instanced zone that was timed.
Raids hold a lot of (mmorpg becoming a job) mind set and that just not what GW2 is about.
I can see them add in instanced raids for GW2 but the numbers are not going to be much higher then 5 the cap pt size. As is though there are a good bit of open world raids in GW2 the stander temples there also the fake instanced raids that you see though guild mission rush, puzzles, and challenges.

I also played FFXI – I have to say, I really enjoyed “raids” in that game. Dynamis was always a big one that I had a fun time doing. There were good strategies, but they were challenging to pull off, and as a Timed instance, you always felt under the gun to get to the next Time Extension mob.

Tbh, I wouldn’t mind if they implemented an instanced raid here. I think it’d be pretty cool to have an influence purchasable guild mission. Maybe make it like an instance of the WvW maps where you have to wrest control of certain camps, keeps or citadels. Have multiple bosses in each instance, but give you only time enough to be able to fight your way to one of them unless you strategically split up your raid. Iono, just off the cuff thinking, haha.

Raids are not gameplay challenges. Raids are logistics challenges.

MisterEction.9382:

Vayne.8563:

MisterEction.9382:

kokiman.2364:

Most of the people who post here seem to hate social interaction. Raids would be a horror for them.

It isn’t social interaction that most people here dislike, it is social exclusion.

Don’t have this gear, get out.
Don’t have this class, get out.
Don’t have this build, get out.
Don’t have this level, get out.
Miss a dodge because the battle has been going on forever because you’re the only one doing good damage, get out.
You’re the only one not doing good damage, get out.
You haven’t watched the dungeon/event on YouTube beforehand to see the most efficient way to do every bit, get out.

In the end, everything where structured grouping is required in this game devolves to this. If you don’t hit an event or dungeon early, as in the first few hours, it gets progressively harder to find a group that you can play through it with. And when you do, you get one or two people that ragequit when it becomes evident it isn’t going to be a speedrun becasue it is the first time for one or more of the group.

This is probably the least true post I’ve seen on these forums. Maybe you’re just hanging around with the wrong type of people. While this element does exist in this game, it exists no more in this game than other MMOs, in fact, considerably less in my experience.

In fact, I only ever hear this happening in speed runs. And in Guild Wars 1, it happened in speed runs there too.

Who do you hang out with? Do you PUG or run with the same people? If you’re claiming you PUG and you’ve never seen this, that would be the least true post I’ve ever seen in the forums.

This is the only MMO I play, so how often it happens here compared to others is meaningless to me. It still happens too often.

How are you pugging? Are you using lfg.com and writing in the notes that you want a casual friendly group, or just joining with anyone randomly.

This is your first MMO so you really don’t realize how NOT prevelant this is here. You really should join a casual guild and and you’d have players to do dungeons with that aren’t random people. But let me put it another way.

Do you walk into a crowded bar, yell at the top of your lungs for someone to hang out with, and then just try to enjoy yourself with the first four people who show up, or do you go to a bar with friends and have good time.

I know for myself, I’ll always have a better time with my friends than trying to get four random people who I can stomach who can stomach me for any length of time. But my friends and I have a blast.

Stop pugging and make some friends. It’s a much better way to play an MMO.

Vayne.8563:

MisterEction.9382:

Vayne.8563:

MisterEction.9382:

kokiman.2364:

Most of the people who post here seem to hate social interaction. Raids would be a horror for them.

It isn’t social interaction that most people here dislike, it is social exclusion.

Don’t have this gear, get out.
Don’t have this class, get out.
Don’t have this build, get out.
Don’t have this level, get out.
Miss a dodge because the battle has been going on forever because you’re the only one doing good damage, get out.
You’re the only one not doing good damage, get out.
You haven’t watched the dungeon/event on YouTube beforehand to see the most efficient way to do every bit, get out.

In the end, everything where structured grouping is required in this game devolves to this. If you don’t hit an event or dungeon early, as in the first few hours, it gets progressively harder to find a group that you can play through it with. And when you do, you get one or two people that ragequit when it becomes evident it isn’t going to be a speedrun becasue it is the first time for one or more of the group.

This is probably the least true post I’ve seen on these forums. Maybe you’re just hanging around with the wrong type of people. While this element does exist in this game, it exists no more in this game than other MMOs, in fact, considerably less in my experience.

In fact, I only ever hear this happening in speed runs. And in Guild Wars 1, it happened in speed runs there too.

Who do you hang out with? Do you PUG or run with the same people? If you’re claiming you PUG and you’ve never seen this, that would be the least true post I’ve ever seen in the forums.

This is the only MMO I play, so how often it happens here compared to others is meaningless to me. It still happens too often.

How are you pugging? Are you using lfg.com and writing in the notes that you want a casual friendly group, or just joining with anyone randomly.

This is your first MMO so you really don’t realize how NOT prevelant this is here. You really should join a casual guild and and you’d have players to do dungeons with that aren’t random people. But let me put it another way.

Do you walk into a crowded bar, yell at the top of your lungs for someone to hang out with, and then just try to enjoy yourself with the first four people who show up, or do you go to a bar with friends and have good time.

I know for myself, I’ll always have a better time with my friends than trying to get four random people who I can stomach who can stomach me for any length of time. But my friends and I have a blast.

Stop pugging and make some friends. It’s a much better way to play an MMO.

I said this is the only one I play, not that this is my first.

Go to a bar with the guys and only interact with each other? That’s a bad night at the bar.

Why would I want to be friends with people that are cliquish and can only play well with a certain group of people?

The people whose solution to everything is “join a guild” seem to be the people that make the idea of joining a guild least appealing…

The best way for Anet to give us raids would be to introduce Fissure of Woe and Underworld. It should be the same as it was in GW were the boss/mob mechanics aren’t just DPS. They need to give us more interesting fights. They would also need to give us a reason to do these raid like we had in GW. Most people did FoW/UW for ectos and to get their Obsidian Armor. If they gave us something like that then it’d work great.

MisterEction.9382:

Vayne.8563:

MisterEction.9382:

Vayne.8563:

MisterEction.9382:

kokiman.2364:

Most of the people who post here seem to hate social interaction. Raids would be a horror for them.

It isn’t social interaction that most people here dislike, it is social exclusion.

Don’t have this gear, get out.
Don’t have this class, get out.
Don’t have this build, get out.
Don’t have this level, get out.
Miss a dodge because the battle has been going on forever because you’re the only one doing good damage, get out.
You’re the only one not doing good damage, get out.
You haven’t watched the dungeon/event on YouTube beforehand to see the most efficient way to do every bit, get out.

In the end, everything where structured grouping is required in this game devolves to this. If you don’t hit an event or dungeon early, as in the first few hours, it gets progressively harder to find a group that you can play through it with. And when you do, you get one or two people that ragequit when it becomes evident it isn’t going to be a speedrun becasue it is the first time for one or more of the group.

This is probably the least true post I’ve seen on these forums. Maybe you’re just hanging around with the wrong type of people. While this element does exist in this game, it exists no more in this game than other MMOs, in fact, considerably less in my experience.

In fact, I only ever hear this happening in speed runs. And in Guild Wars 1, it happened in speed runs there too.

Who do you hang out with? Do you PUG or run with the same people? If you’re claiming you PUG and you’ve never seen this, that would be the least true post I’ve ever seen in the forums.

This is the only MMO I play, so how often it happens here compared to others is meaningless to me. It still happens too often.

How are you pugging? Are you using lfg.com and writing in the notes that you want a casual friendly group, or just joining with anyone randomly.

This is your first MMO so you really don’t realize how NOT prevelant this is here. You really should join a casual guild and and you’d have players to do dungeons with that aren’t random people. But let me put it another way.

Do you walk into a crowded bar, yell at the top of your lungs for someone to hang out with, and then just try to enjoy yourself with the first four people who show up, or do you go to a bar with friends and have good time.

I know for myself, I’ll always have a better time with my friends than trying to get four random people who I can stomach who can stomach me for any length of time. But my friends and I have a blast.

Stop pugging and make some friends. It’s a much better way to play an MMO.

I said this is the only one I play, not that this is my first.

Go to a bar with the guys and only interact with each other? That’s a bad night at the bar.

Why would I want to be friends with people that are cliquish and can only play well with a certain group of people?

The people whose solution to everything is “join a guild” seem to be the people that make the idea of joining a guild least appealing…

My guild isn’t cliquish and we don’t only play with a certain group of people. We have many people in the guild, some very experienced and really good, some that aren’t so good. No one says these people can play and these people can’t. We simply have a more relaxed view of how to do dungeons.

Joining a guild means playing with people who think the way you do, that’s all. If you join a casual guild you meet casual people. It doesn’t mean you have to ONLY play with those people. It doesn’t even mean you only have to belong to one guild. Guild Wars 2 allows you to join up to five.

But it does mean you’re less likely to have interactions with people who think completely differently than you do.

Being a holdover from City of Heroes, I’ve hosted dozens of raids myself. In fact, I started to become somewhat famous in my server for hosting the raids.

But from what I hear about raids in other games, I don’t think they are as blessed as the ones in CoH was. We all remember that audio clip of the guy hosting a raid who starts screaming obscenities about how someone messed up and are getting -50 DKP or whatever that is supposed to be. I get the feeling CoH raids were far easier due to the “potion system” in that game being lenient, and I think my server was particularly good at them. Heck, I still have the guide videos on youtube for most of them (abridged due to time, of course).

Anyway, there are a series of things that make raids as a whole rather unenjoyable in different gaming circles, as well as things that are just unenjoyable as a whole on the raiding aspect:

1): Incompetence grows exponentially with group size. When people say they want a 30 main raid, I continually picture this as 30 people who aren’t paying attention, 30 people who will disconnect, 30 people actively trying to troll the group, 30 people refusing to cooperate because they want to do it their way, 30 people with a superiority complex, 30 people who don’t speak english, and 30 people who turn chat off and refuse to listen. I have a hard enough time dealing with 4 players and all of the above, let alone piling 25 more on to that.

2): It’ll be a slaughterfest. The way the game is designed around personal safety and avoiding damage, making an event that auto scales for 30 people basically means that every attack will be a OHKO like it is with scaled up champions in the game.

3): It’ll be a lag fest. We already have culling issues, and even at minimum graphics my 4gb processor still messes up. LIkewise, people with older or slower computers end up with the short stick when it comes to raids.

4): Wouldn’t be able to see anything from all the effects.

5): Our players become nameless. In small content a single player has a noticable impact on how things play out, and you can formulate short term strategies based on what is needed to be done. In a group of 30, it’ll just be all DPS, DPS, and more DPS. Due to the AoE limits you won’t be able to heal the group or buff the group or defend the group or even do a ton of damage to an enemy zerg scaled to the size of 30 people.

6): Smaller servers will have a much harder time forming a raid than the larger servers do.

7): It is either a grind or it is never run. If it gives tokens or relies on the RNG, it’ll be an endless grind. If it just gives the reward out for succeeding, it’ll never be run by anyone more than once.

So in the end, you can’t see everything that is killing you in one hit while you have to reel in the incompetence of half the players, the absence of a quarter, and the whiney superiority complex of the remaining quarter, and you have to do this every day in succession for a week. Frankly, it just doesn’t sound appealing. It sounds more like a job then any actual “fun”.

The problem with making a raid boss in gw2 is that you can’t get away with just making a boss which has high damage and hp. It just doesn’t work for gw2 (e.g. hotw bosses). At some point, everyone is going to get 1 shot so basically, it makes every build useless. What gw2 has to work with is mechanics. The raid boss will need to have superior “mechanics” which test the player’s skills to maximum. Unfortunately, it seems the AI at the moment in this game is not capable of doing such things. Lupi is a good example of how a boss should be like. Anet has started to catch on to such things, with the revamp of the AC dungeon, these bosses now rely much more on the mechanics of the boss than just doing boring rentlentless One Hit Kos.

I am not against ‘raids’ per say, but GW2 already has its own form of raids and that is the large scale world events such as dragons and the like.
If there is more ‘raids’ added in future i would like for some to be much much more difficult and require real coordination and likely some pre-planning, the kind of things guilds/commanders organise and others join in to make up numbers
Rewards would need to be similar to now although if there is significantly more challenge i would like for their to be a lot better rewards (like 1 laurel in the daily chest or something)

A ‘gear treadmill’ type of raid is a big no no from me though, although agony resistance is a good example of a form of gear treadmill that stays confined to its setting that has no impact on the game outside of that setting… And that is the only kind of raid style progression in gear i could be comfortable with in GW2

Raiding is something a group of people can do that requires coordination and structure.
I think Guild Missions is a great concept as a replacement for the typical raid.
Not only does it provide variety other than the typical killing a bad kitten boss, its much more flexible since you can do it multiple times, and with no player limit.

That said, I think the current guild missions still need tweaking to provide more challenge to guilds.

The game needs more visually upgradable items similar to the fractal capicator.

A weapon whose stats never change but goes from looking like a simple broadsword to looking like a sword of bad assery after completing a bunch of in game content. Make that content require 10 or 20 people if you wish. As long as the encounter is completable by every class/build I see no problem.

floppyjr.3459:

Raiding is something a group of people can do that requires coordination and structure.
I think Guild Missions is a great concept as a replacement for the typical raid.
Not only does it provide variety other than the typical killing a bad kitten boss, its much more flexible since you can do it multiple times, and with no player limit.

That said, I think the current guild missions still need tweaking to provide more challenge to guilds.

Not that I mind guild missions, but I think that instanced content is better for storytelling in general. For example, if they made Guild Missions in a instance, similar to personal story they could add all sorts of other elements such as champions and even some backstory to the bosses.

Open concept of Guild Mission isn’t bad, but it doesn’t have that build up like instanced content, for me at least. It’s just hunt down and capture that boss ASAP.

Having old fashioned raids in game means automatically a lot less content for majority of playerbase which is not a good thing. Raiders are a minority, but developing a raid eats a huge amount of work hours.

Let’s say they use 1000 work hours for a content patch. Now it means that everything created in those 1000 hours will be playable for the whole playerbase. If there would be a raid, 600 hours would go into that and it would only be seen by maybe 20% of players and the rest 80% (non-raiders) would be left with only 400 hours worth of content.

That is one of the reasons why raids are slowly disappearing in MMOs that are not purely based only on raiding like WoW was in its prime.

Also raids split playerbase in two, raiders and non-raiders. Raiders would not be satisfied without good enough rewards (better stats) and after a raid or two the gap between the two groups would be huge. Soon everything would be playable only for raiders purely because they have better gear and everything has to be balanced for that gear. Even though non-raiders are a majority, they still become second class citizens, they are not allowed to do anything.

This has happened so many times before.