Guild Wars 2

It just occurred to me that I can’t think of a single reason for having currencies in game that can only be spent at certain vendors and then only for certain items.

Why not just gold?

Real money purchase problems?

I mean… so what, honestly. But if there are things that are just soooooo valuable as to need to be locked away from real currency (which just means “can only be bought with player time or skill”), have two. I’d be almost ok with that.

But how many are there in this game? Gold, karma, honor, individual dungeon token, wvw rewards, xp>skill points…

I’m honestly curious if there’s any good reason for all of this.

Gold – Gems – Real Money — these are part of the game’s economy.

The other stuff ANet wanted to keep separate so that it’s not a pay-to-win game.

Glory and pvp is all restricted separate from the other parts of the game, so that’s another facet.

The real puzzler for me is why dungeon currency has to be different for each dungeon.

They want people to have to earn their gear using the mode of play it comes from. That’s a good idea, IMO. I hated in TERA how you could literally buy the best endgame gear sets with gold just by farming mobs and never setting foot in any of the endgame content. If you want WvW gear, you have to do WvW. If you want dungeon gear, you have to do the dungeon.

Why do you think it should be any other way? Games are designed to be played, so play it and you’ll get your reward – there is no need to buy stuff with gold when it’s all the same level of stats. You’re just being rewarded with a cool visual after playing the game type you prefer.

It would be nice to have the option to trade a certain amount of currency for another type. This would allow players who prefer doing activity X to continue with what brings them joy while still earning currency for another type of gear. Example : 375 X currency for 250 Y currency.

Leiloni.7951:

Why do you think it should be any other way? Games are designed to be played, so play it and you’ll get your reward – there is no need to buy stuff with gold when it’s all the same level of stats. You’re just being rewarded with a cool visual after playing the game type you prefer.

What if I hate dungeon X but really like the armor from there?

It’s a game after all. Me being able to earn that armor doing something I like doesn’t harm anyone else’s game. At least I can’t see how it would.

If a developer wants people in their content, make people WANT to be there by developing great content. Don’t force people to “endure” what they don’t want to get what they do want.

It’s mind boggling that this is even a consideration on the part of a game developer so I have to wonder if there isn’t something more to it than just, “well, play our way or hit the highway.”

I’ve seen quite a bit of “here’s our philosophy and we stand by it” from these developers but not ONCE have I seen anything that had a “if you don’t like it, get bent” attitude. I find it hard to believe that’s their attitude, but I could be wrong of course.

Yeah one currency for everything would be nice given that extra currencies just trivialize the main one. You’ll eventually reach a point where silver is nothing more than transportation tokens. Instead of dungeons dropping tokens they could, you know, just drop the loot in its entirety instead. If you completed it then you already know you could beat it so repeating is just redundant.

Agemnon.4608:

If you completed it then you already know you could beat it so repeating is just redundant.

So you want to run a dungeon once, get the gear, and be done? Wow.

“You got from level 1-2, you already know you could do it so repeating is just redundant.”

“You got your crafting to level 2, you already know you could do it so repeating is just redundant.”

“You killed someone in PVP, you already know you could do it so repeating is just redundant.”

Hopefully you realize how ridiculous that entire argument sounds.

zydal.2790:

Agemnon.4608:

If you completed it then you already know you could beat it so repeating is just redundant.

So you want to run a dungeon once, get the gear, and be done? Wow.

“You got from level 1-2, you already know you could do it so repeating is just redundant.”

“You got your crafting to level 2, you already know you could do it so repeating is just redundant.”

“You killed someone in PVP, you already know you could do it so repeating is just redundant.”

Hopefully you realize how ridiculous that entire argument sounds.

I remember playing pencil and paper D and D and taking multiple weekends to finish a dungeon just to get whatever amazing thing was in the chest at the end.

Dungeons in video games are fast-food copies of the reason people love dungeons. So let’s not be too hasty to blame/hate for someone saying, “been there done that after one run” because it’s largely true. Doing it over and over again refines technique, it doesn’t necessarily make the dungeon any different or better.

I recognize that it’s a compromise that designers have had to make to adapt to technology and consumer demand for this fast-food alternative, but there’s nothing inherently wrong with wanting to run a dungeon once and get a trunk full of loot out of it.

Derpinator.2894:

zydal.2790:

Agemnon.4608:

If you completed it then you already know you could beat it so repeating is just redundant.

So you want to run a dungeon once, get the gear, and be done? Wow.

“You got from level 1-2, you already know you could do it so repeating is just redundant.”

“You got your crafting to level 2, you already know you could do it so repeating is just redundant.”

“You killed someone in PVP, you already know you could do it so repeating is just redundant.”

Hopefully you realize how ridiculous that entire argument sounds.

I remember playing pencil and paper D and D and taking multiple weekends to finish a dungeon just to get whatever amazing thing was in the chest at the end.

Dungeons in video games are fast-food copies of the reason people love dungeons. So let’s not be too hasty to blame/hate for someone saying, “been there done that after one run” because it’s largely true. Doing it over and over again refines technique, it doesn’t necessarily make the dungeon any different or better.

I recognize that it’s a compromise that designers have had to make to adapt to technology and consumer demand for this fast-food alternative, but there’s nothing inherently wrong with wanting to run a dungeon once and get a trunk full of loot out of it.

Is there anything wrong with WANTING it? Of course not.

Expecting it? Asinine.

With the “Been there, done that” mentality I could get every single piece of gear available from dungeon rewards in a single night. That’s ridiculous. Expecting that, and expecting ANet to put it in? Downright stupid.

Video games that incorporate an online element are all about retention. GW2 cares about retention less than sub-based games, but they still want/need people to stick around and continue playing the game. If a game becomes a ghost-town, it becomes less inviting to new players, so it doesn’t sell as well. As it stands now, in a few months I’ll still be running dungeons to get the cosmetic gear I most desire. I personally see nothing wrong with that.

zydal.2790:

Derpinator.2894:

zydal.2790:

Agemnon.4608:

If you completed it then you already know you could beat it so repeating is just redundant.

So you want to run a dungeon once, get the gear, and be done? Wow.

“You got from level 1-2, you already know you could do it so repeating is just redundant.”

“You got your crafting to level 2, you already know you could do it so repeating is just redundant.”

“You killed someone in PVP, you already know you could do it so repeating is just redundant.”

Hopefully you realize how ridiculous that entire argument sounds.

I remember playing pencil and paper D and D and taking multiple weekends to finish a dungeon just to get whatever amazing thing was in the chest at the end.

Dungeons in video games are fast-food copies of the reason people love dungeons. So let’s not be too hasty to blame/hate for someone saying, “been there done that after one run” because it’s largely true. Doing it over and over again refines technique, it doesn’t necessarily make the dungeon any different or better.

I recognize that it’s a compromise that designers have had to make to adapt to technology and consumer demand for this fast-food alternative, but there’s nothing inherently wrong with wanting to run a dungeon once and get a trunk full of loot out of it.

Is there anything wrong with WANTING it? Of course not.

Expecting it? Asinine.

With the “Been there, done that” mentality I could get every single piece of gear available from dungeon rewards in a single night. That’s ridiculous. Expecting that, and expecting ANet to put it in? Downright stupid.

Video games that incorporate an online element are all about retention. GW2 cares about retention less than sub-based games, but they still want/need people to stick around and continue playing the game. If a game becomes a ghost-town, it becomes less inviting to new players, so it doesn’t sell as well. As it stands now, in a few months I’ll still be running dungeons to get the cosmetic gear I most desire. I personally see nothing wrong with that.

There is nothing wrong with that, but expecting anet to put in fun things to do between getting the awesomesauce isn’t stupid at all.

So, let’s just say you’re correct. You could get every piece of gear in a single night. That’s one extreme.

Here’s the other: there is no possible way to get even ONE piece of gear in a single night. And to get all of the piece of gear you have to do the same content something like 50 times.

That’s where we’re at. Extreme number two. An entire night’s play with no in between rewards for the effort.

How do you bridge the gap?

I would bet that in an hour I could list 500 things that COULD be done to make running each dungeon, each time, more rewarding.

I’ll spend 30 seconds, assume that each line below starts with “finish a dungeon or boss encounter within the dungeon”.

Get a buff that turns you into a pirate ghost until you choose to click it off.
Get a random delivery of crafting materials from the ether.
Get a minipet.
Get a balloon animal sword filled with poison gas.
Get one of a random selection of food items that only come from that dungeon.
Get a “be a mob” token that allows you to take over a random mob somewhere in the world and control it.

I’ll stop there. Sure, none of this stuff is in game already, but it could have been. Along with hundreds of other “allong the way” incentives. Titles, town clothes, show weapons, more gold per run (never going to happen), a pet that follows you that is the same model as the dungeon boss and calls you, “My Lord” for your 10th victory.

The options are endless. Why they don’t exist is a mystery.

Derpinator.2894:

zydal.2790:

Derpinator.2894:

zydal.2790:

Agemnon.4608:

If you completed it then you already know you could beat it so repeating is just redundant.

So you want to run a dungeon once, get the gear, and be done? Wow.

“You got from level 1-2, you already know you could do it so repeating is just redundant.”

“You got your crafting to level 2, you already know you could do it so repeating is just redundant.”

“You killed someone in PVP, you already know you could do it so repeating is just redundant.”

Hopefully you realize how ridiculous that entire argument sounds.

I remember playing pencil and paper D and D and taking multiple weekends to finish a dungeon just to get whatever amazing thing was in the chest at the end.

Dungeons in video games are fast-food copies of the reason people love dungeons. So let’s not be too hasty to blame/hate for someone saying, “been there done that after one run” because it’s largely true. Doing it over and over again refines technique, it doesn’t necessarily make the dungeon any different or better.

I recognize that it’s a compromise that designers have had to make to adapt to technology and consumer demand for this fast-food alternative, but there’s nothing inherently wrong with wanting to run a dungeon once and get a trunk full of loot out of it.

Is there anything wrong with WANTING it? Of course not.

Expecting it? Asinine.

With the “Been there, done that” mentality I could get every single piece of gear available from dungeon rewards in a single night. That’s ridiculous. Expecting that, and expecting ANet to put it in? Downright stupid.

Video games that incorporate an online element are all about retention. GW2 cares about retention less than sub-based games, but they still want/need people to stick around and continue playing the game. If a game becomes a ghost-town, it becomes less inviting to new players, so it doesn’t sell as well. As it stands now, in a few months I’ll still be running dungeons to get the cosmetic gear I most desire. I personally see nothing wrong with that.

There is nothing wrong with that, but expecting anet to put in fun things to do between getting the awesomesauce isn’t stupid at all.

So, let’s just say you’re correct. You could get every piece of gear in a single night. That’s one extreme.

Here’s the other: there is no possible way to get even ONE piece of gear in a single night. And to get all of the piece of gear you have to do the same content something like 50 times.

That’s where we’re at. Extreme number two. An entire night’s play with no in between rewards for the effort.

How do you bridge the gap?

I would bet that in an hour I could list 500 things that COULD be done to make running each dungeon, each time, more rewarding.

I’ll spend 30 seconds, assume that each line below starts with “finish a dungeon or boss encounter within the dungeon”.

Get a buff that turns you into a pirate ghost until you choose to click it off.
Get a random delivery of crafting materials from the ether.
Get a minipet.
Get a balloon animal sword filled with poison gas.
Get one of a random selection of food items that only come from that dungeon.
Get a “be a mob” token that allows you to take over a random mob somewhere in the world and control it.

I’ll stop there. Sure, none of this stuff is in game already, but it could have been. Along with hundreds of other “allong the way” incentives. Titles, town clothes, show weapons, more gold per run (never going to happen), a pet that follows you that is the same model as the dungeon boss and calls you, “My Lord” for your 10th victory.

The options are endless. Why they don’t exist is a mystery.

I agree with this, and I think the other poster does as well. It should be noted that the previous discussion up to this point smacked of, “I want my rewards, and I want them NOW!!” which sounds a hell of a lot different than, “Let’s add more fun and aesthetic rewards that people can collect while they’re doing something they’re going to do anyway!”

^This

Adding fun things to do isn’t a bad idea at all. I don’t particularly care if they’re implemented, but I don’t see any harm in doing so.

But what I was replying to, and as such what you were replying to me replying to, was the “been there, done that, I want everything already” mentality. Which is absolutely different than the mentality in this most recent post by you.

zydal.2790:

Agemnon.4608:

If you completed it then you already know you could beat it so repeating is just redundant.

So you want to run a dungeon once, get the gear, and be done? Wow.

“You got from level 1-2, you already know you could do it so repeating is just redundant.”

“You got your crafting to level 2, you already know you could do it so repeating is just redundant.”

“You killed someone in PVP, you already know you could do it so repeating is just redundant.”

Hopefully you realize how ridiculous that entire argument sounds.

Umm, no. Leveling isn’t quite the same as leveling is tiered. Levels 1-10 should be easy for anyone and take about a day or two whereas 70-80 should be far more difficult yet have a larger range of content. Dungeons involve specific mechanics and if you can complete a dungeon once you can complete it again. All you’re doing is repeating content when you do the same dungeon. If it’s fun then sure you’d want to do it again but a little something for the trouble can’t hurt.

And you can’t compare it to PvP since each class and individual player and build is different. WoW arenas have people rated over 2000 because they’re consistently good at PvP, fighting different people and different teams. In dungeons, it’s the same trash mobs and same dragon. Only thing different is the guy standing in fire wearing greens (if armor were more accessible he wouldn’t wear greens) may ruin things for everyone else.

mulch.2586:

Gold – Gems – Real Money — these are part of the game’s economy.

The other stuff ANet wanted to keep separate so that it’s not a pay-to-win game.

Glory and pvp is all restricted separate from the other parts of the game, so that’s another facet.

The real puzzler for me is why dungeon currency has to be different for each dungeon.

Thats an easy answer. B/c as soon as OP use the same currency everyone runs the easiest dungeon, the easiest path, all day everyday.

Derpinator.2894:

Leiloni.7951:

Why do you think it should be any other way? Games are designed to be played, so play it and you’ll get your reward – there is no need to buy stuff with gold when it’s all the same level of stats. You’re just being rewarded with a cool visual after playing the game type you prefer.

What if I hate dungeon X but really like the armor from there?

It’s a game after all. Me being able to earn that armor doing something I like doesn’t harm anyone else’s game. At least I can’t see how it would.

If a developer wants people in their content, make people WANT to be there by developing great content. Don’t force people to “endure” what they don’t want to get what they do want.

Well for dungeons I wouldn’t mind one token for all dungeons instead of different tokens for each dungeon. But as far as other content, it may not be fair. You’d have people running the easiest content the game has to offer over and over to get gear intended for harder content. So instead of running an explorable mode dungeon for a really awesome endgame set, or doing a ton of WvWvW for a WvW set, both of which require a lot of skill and a lot of time, you’d have people zerg farming DE’s for Karma or buying gems from the gem store and trading it for in game gold and literally buying their way to good gear.

That is not fair – if you want the best looking stuff you’ll have to do that content. Same as in other games where the gear with the best stats requires the hardest content. It’s the only fair way to go that makes everyone happy. You need to reward people properly for the difficulty of what they’re doing and how much work they put into it.

Asking ANet to let you earn any endgame set any way you want is asking them to let you shortcut your way through the game – it’s basically asking them to let you cheat. If you want the coolest stuff, you have to earn it, plain and simple. That’s how it should be.

So yes, you can do whatever you want because there is no difference in the level of stats between sets. The only difference is the visuals.

Greyfeld.7104:

I agree with this, and I think the other poster does as well. It should be noted that the previous discussion up to this point smacked of, “I want my rewards, and I want them NOW!!” which sounds a hell of a lot different than, “Let’s add more fun and aesthetic rewards that people can collect while they’re doing something they’re going to do anyway!”

I agree with this as well. Adding in little fun things as rewards for every dungeon run is a good idea. What I disagree with is like you said, the “I want it and I want it now” attitude. One thing that GW2 does that other games have done is tokens. You are rewarded with a number of tokens for each run and that makes you feel like you are actually progressing and your time was well spent. Certain Korean MMO’s coughAionTERAcough don’t have that and rely totally on RNG so you can do hundreds of runs and never get that one item you want. So after playing games like that a lot, the WoW-esque token system is a breath of fresh air that I personally enjoy. So adding in fun little rewards would just be a great addition on top of that for me.

Agemnon.4608:

Umm, no. Leveling isn’t quite the same as leveling is tiered. Levels 1-10 should be easy for anyone and take about a day or two whereas 70-80 should be far more difficult yet have a larger range of content. Dungeons involve specific mechanics and if you can complete a dungeon once you can complete it again. All you’re doing is repeating content when you do the same dungeon. If it’s fun then sure you’d want to do it again but a little something for the trouble can’t hurt.

And you can’t compare it to PvP since each class and individual player and build is different. WoW arenas have people rated over 2000 because they’re consistently good at PvP, fighting different people and different teams. In dungeons, it’s the same trash mobs and same dragon. Only thing different is the guy standing in fire wearing greens (if armor were more accessible he wouldn’t wear greens) may ruin things for everyone else.

It just sounds like you don’t like PvE which is fine. I understand your PvP argument and I’ve made it myself in the past – PvP is always different and thus more challenging (that’s the argument anyway, I personally enjoy both types of gameplay now). But PvE does offer its own challenges and some people enjoy that. It’s hard the first few times you do it and then it does get easier which is not a bad thing. It’s fun to just go in, have a more relaxing time killing stuff with your friends, get some tokens towards nice gear, and that’s it. Having a constant challenge is stressful for some so PvE is enough of a challenge for them. Good thing about this game is there’s something for everyone. If you enjoy PvP more, you can WvW your way to gear.