Guild Wars 2

Jockum.1385:

Civilis.2547:

I’m trying to understand what the need for new dungeons is.

Some players prefer to play as a team, which is not required in open world. Doing vistas together is a bit….boring, and I think there are more people lfg for dungeons than for vistas.
Killing a boss as a zerg requires little/no teamwork. Other players could be replaced by bots and nobody would realize it.

Quite a lot of dungeons paths are done routinely.

What should a new dungeon provide in the way of instanced team gameplay that is not provided by an existing dungeon, or alternatively by instanced Living Story content or new instanced fractal content? You’re articulating a demand for ‘playing as a team’; why does that necessitate a new dungeon?

SkiTz.4590:

simple – hard mode dungeon. Adjust the rewards accordingly. They dont have to be the “most rewarding system in the game”… just some kind of 5 man/group content that a lot of guilds would love to see / run.

Granted we have fractals, but thats it. So few instances of group content…

Now I will say this – hopefully the new challenging content reveal will be 5man+/group related instead of this open world zergy stuff like Silverwastes…

There’s really not much a point to complain about dungs at this point. Just hold off and wait to see what this new challenging group content is gonna be in HoT…

Hard mode isn’t a solution, because its just stacking even more statistical imbalance that we’ve already found ways to beat. The fundamental flaw of the old dungeons are their encounter designs. Its a problem that exists in all areas of PvE at the moment. Basically they stack HP and power so they take longer to kill, and threaten any tanks in the group; causing them to win a war of attrition by default. Because of this, players only have an advantage if they can front load a lot of damage and kill it quickly, which halts the DPS of the mobs and bosses. This is the element that gave rise to the zerker meta, as people became more familiar with the encounters, got better at active defenses, and devalued defensive stats as their returns become weaker the stronger the mobs are.

The second element, Stacking, is the result of potato AI behavior of mobs in general. Because most of our attacks are either cleave or AOE, our damage is most efficient when mobs groups are stacked tight enough to maximize our target limit. It also helps significantly with dodging, as stacked mobs will focus their area denial attacks, leaving more open room to dodge into as a safety net. But probably the most important, most boon sharing and support effects are all short ranged.

If you compare old dungeons to fractals, you’ll notice the old dungeons used the 3 common quest archetypes for all their “objectives”. “Stay in this room until you’ve killed enough things”, “go retrieve X things” and “stand here and not die for 3 minutes”. The Fractals on the other hand had much better encounter and objective designs, which focus more on mechanics and organization, rather then raw DPS . Task concepts are simple, but surprisingly effective; and task delegation isn’t difficult so long as people understand the mechanics. Check points are frequent, and close to the action, and very rarely requires players to rerun a gauntlet just to rejoin their group. And of the fractals I can remember off the top of my head, we’re not hampered by the NPC companions; who draw all aggro possible in the normal dungeons.

Love it or hate it, Cliff side fractal is the most well implemented of the bunch. It causes players to focus on the mechanics of the hammer, utilizing coordination, carrier rotation, and their build abilities to enable the Hammer carrier to do his job. What surprised me is that the environment pressure was “just right” to the urgency level of the Corruption stacks, and the overwhelming condi stacking by cultists. Another thing that surprised me, is that build competency has a major payout in this fractal despite the focus on the Hammer. Even on lvl 1 Fractals, if a player can’t handle their build, they probably won’t survive long. This simultaneously makes it either the easiest or most difficult fractal depending on how survivable each person is, and how well they contribute to the team momentum.

Now the traditional dungeons did have their moments; incorporating some elements of coordination and personal endurance. But the difficulty modulation of these segments were incredibly unstable; making them among the least traveled paths for each dungeon. You also see similar issues with the Living Story fractals, which were tuned too easy during their original runs, and made awkwardly difficult with the mob stats when scaled up for fractals. Molten Facility is the least affected by this, because the encounter setup separated the fight portions from the mechanical portions. Aether blade went the opposite way , by combining the environmental hazards with the fight sequences.

Wanze.8410:

Behellagh.1468:

Jockum.1385:

SkiTz.4590:

Open world is their focus.
Spamming auto attack, and getting rewards so everyone is a winner and they can also show off their sparkly new dresses to everyone in the zerg. Its a win win for casuals, which is the overwhelming majority in this game.

On the other hand the only teamcontent are dungeons. Open World is singleplayer content.

You’re forgetting Fractals.

And guild missions and world bosses.

Thing is, my friends and I like playing things with 5-15 people. We don’t want an entire zerg to run with us doing something. Open world missions are always overwhelmed with people. I understand anet ideology is for you to connect with others, but you’re not connecting with other players at all right now. You’re just a mob.

GW1 had 18 dungeons, normal and hard mode. 2 elite dungeons. Also every mission and zone on hard mode equated a dungeon. Our guild would do nothing but dungeons (which didn’t reward a lot of money at all, you just hoped for good drops but mostly you’re doing it for fun).

Civilis.2547:

What should a new dungeon provide in the way of instanced team gameplay that is not provided by an existing dungeon, or alternatively by instanced Living Story content or new instanced fractal content? You’re articulating a demand for ‘playing as a team’; why does that necessitate a new dungeon?

What would new open world maps provide that is not provided by existing content?
—>we don’t need any new content?
New dungeons would provide new content. Content which has not been done 5000 times.

There is no need to play as a team except in teamcontent. Only content which requires a team are dungeons/fractals.

starlinvf.1358:

SkiTz.4590:

simple – hard mode dungeon. Adjust the rewards accordingly. They dont have to be the “most rewarding system in the game”… just some kind of 5 man/group content that a lot of guilds would love to see / run.

Granted we have fractals, but thats it. So few instances of group content…

Now I will say this – hopefully the new challenging content reveal will be 5man+/group related instead of this open world zergy stuff like Silverwastes…

There’s really not much a point to complain about dungs at this point. Just hold off and wait to see what this new challenging group content is gonna be in HoT…

Hard mode isn’t a solution, because its just stacking even more statistical imbalance that we’ve already found ways to beat. The fundamental flaw of the old dungeons are their encounter designs. Its a problem that exists in all areas of PvE at the moment.

Hard-mode doesn’t strictly mean more mob HP/damage… Theres a lot of things you can add to make it hard-mode

The main issue is the fundamental flaw , the encounter, as you said. Asking for a fix is not realistic imo. It would be great! but lol, who are we kidding, its not going to happen.

And I don’t see anet spending precious dev time in changing something that requires a complete redesign/overhaul – they will just implement something totally new (allegedly this challenging group content in HoT).

Since dungeons are flawed from the core, its not realistic to ask for a total overhaul.

Thats why I suggested of a more realistic solution -just add a hard-mode version on top of explorable/story mode. Obviously its not going to solve the core issue that plagues dungs. But that’s not my goal. I just want dungs to be more viable/playable instead of just a daily speed run.

SkiTz.4590:

LOL. Dungeon community is perfectly fine. That is not the reason anets dung team was abandoned. NO ONE is forcing you to speed run or join PUGS that clearly say they are speed running.

You are free to start a LFG that says casual/relaxed run.

IT WILL FILL UP IMMEDIATELY.

There’s TONs of players that aren’t looking for speed runs

Why are you hating on people for wanting to start a group thats goal is to finish the dungeon asap?

Both LFGs are perfectly accepted (speed running minmaxers and casual runs). Just avoid the group that you don’t want to be a part of. No one will give you crap.

Open world community can be toxic as well.
Plenty of trash talking in teq maps that aren’t being 100% perfect.
I remember how toxic the map chat was during twisted marionette platform fight failures.

My memory is quite a bit longer than everyone elses, apparently. I remember the debacles that the dungeon community would perpetrate. First it was confined, but upon Anet nerfting the CoF P1 farm, it became widespread and severe. The dungeon runners would pop up in random threads, harassing people for not using their builds and play style. Accusing them of being wastes of space, selfish leechers, “carebears”, etc. Then it took a turn for the worse, where instead of actually explaining themselves, they adopted troll logic and the most condescending attitude of elitism I had ever seen. They saw it fit to insult other people into submission instead of explaining themselves. Then, when the community lashed out against them, they played the victim, claiming “oh, it’s just the way we do things. you’re discriminating against my playstyle!!!”. I’ve lost count of how many of them changed account names.

The most recent attitude is a product of this: after learning that harassing random people doesn’t work, they “keep to themselves”, in the sense that they claim that everyone can do whatever they want and pretend that their sense of elitism doesn’t trickle down through the community. Everything is fine, except for the dozens of bingo threads they have to shout down on a daily basis, because otherwise… things wouldn’t be fine, now would they? But hey, it isn’t like one of their most popular threads consists of them making fun of the uninformed masses. After Anet stopped focusing on dungeons, the influence of these players has dropped, and now they are only mildly cancerous instead of the rampaging malignant social tumor they once were.

I’ve played PVP for months, WvW for months, overworld PVE for months, and dungeons for months. Dungeons are the worst. Dungeons manufacture a singular, refined, and focused hatred, whereas any failed event in PVE is just generalized frustration shouting toward the sky. A failed match in WvW can be attributed to the other team, and the same as in PVP as well. Maybe when the day comes where I am approached by random players and ritualistically harassed to leave the overworld map for playing a Necro, then the communities would be equal.

The whole “just make your own LFG and no one will bother you” thing is a big lie. I’ve made countless “anyone welcome”, or “casual run” LFGs. Do you know what happens? Other people will hijack your party and kick you. One player will join and decide to try and solo the whole dungeon before anyone else joins, robbing other players of chests. I’ll watch the LFG, and watch the standard “80s speed exp zerk” parties appear and fill several times over before one person joins my party. They’ll join, see someone who isn’t 80, then immediately leave without saying a word, forcing me to have to put the LFG up again. I’ll still get people who will demand someone (usually the ranger or necro) alt to a “real class”, and then quit the team when they refuse to change.

Although i did have the possibility of making legendaries (getting pre’s from MF) , i will in all probability never make one for the simple fact that you need to do dungeon runs.

The ‘explore’ mode of a dungeon is ‘ok’, but running it several times in order to get a few coin and the rewards to make a legendary is for myself a big nono.

So i don’t run any dungeons in any mode. Never. Ever. And seeing the forums where players complain about getting kicked from pug’s that they even started themselves….well, i’m not sorry for missing out on that part of the game.

My greatest fear is that the dev’s will introduce more dungeons in HoT that you need to run for mats to make a precursor or sumething. If that’s the case, i’m outta this game. And i’m convinced i wouldn’t be the only one.

I really hate Elitists, the people that require you to do something their way because they want to run things fast instead of having fun. For the life of me, i can’t understand why someone would run the same instance over and over and over for the xxxxth time (yes, there are those over 1K runs (and more i’ve heard)) without actually having fun and with a challenge.

I can understand why ppl now solo certain instances ( and it’s not that hard either) even if it takes em much longer. Not having to deal with the self-proclaimed elite would indeed be bliss.

My warrior is full asc zerk with 50 AR, and i’ve done my share of fractals on that one, and even there the so called elitists kick someone from party before you’re even inside…. (and no, nothing mentioned on AP or anything) on a lvl 10 fractal….!

As far as i’m concerned, they can do this (which a lot of mmo’s already implement in some way) :

- make certain bosses in there immune to direct dmg.
- require a certain mob killcount before you can kill a boss otherwise he’ll oneshot everyone.
- one inside, you can’t kick anyone from party or you’ll be booted out completely. (dcing doesn’t count)

Now THAT is what i would call a dungeon. Not this half-baked lump of crap they call a dungeon now.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

SkiTz.4590:

LOL. Dungeon community is perfectly fine. That is not the reason anets dung team was abandoned. NO ONE is forcing you to speed run or join PUGS that clearly say they are speed running.

You are free to start a LFG that says casual/relaxed run.

IT WILL FILL UP IMMEDIATELY.

There’s TONs of players that aren’t looking for speed runs

Why are you hating on people for wanting to start a group thats goal is to finish the dungeon asap?

Both LFGs are perfectly accepted (speed running minmaxers and casual runs). Just avoid the group that you don’t want to be a part of. No one will give you crap.

Open world community can be toxic as well.
Plenty of trash talking in teq maps that aren’t being 100% perfect.
I remember how toxic the map chat was during twisted marionette platform fight failures.

My memory is quite a bit longer than everyone elses, apparently. I remember the debacles that the dungeon community would perpetrate. First it was confined, but upon Anet nerfting the CoF P1 farm, it became widespread and severe. The dungeon runners would pop up in random threads, harassing people for not using their builds and play style. Accusing them of being wastes of space, selfish leechers, “carebears”, etc. Then it took a turn for the worse, where instead of actually explaining themselves, they adopted troll logic and the most condescending attitude of elitism I had ever seen. They saw it fit to insult other people into submission instead of explaining themselves. Then, when the community lashed out against them, they played the victim, claiming “oh, it’s just the way we do things. you’re discriminating against my playstyle!!!”. I’ve lost count of how many of them changed account names.

The most recent attitude is a product of this: after learning that harassing random people doesn’t work, they “keep to themselves”, in the sense that they claim that everyone can do whatever they want and pretend that their sense of elitism doesn’t trickle down through the community. Everything is fine, except for the dozens of bingo threads they have to shout down on a daily basis, because otherwise… things wouldn’t be fine, now would they? But hey, it isn’t like one of their most popular threads consists of them making fun of the uninformed masses. After Anet stopped focusing on dungeons, the influence of these players has dropped, and now they are only mildly cancerous instead of the rampaging malignant social tumor they once were.

I’ve played PVP for months, WvW for months, overworld PVE for months, and dungeons for months. Dungeons are the worst. Dungeons manufacture a singular, refined, and focused hatred, whereas any failed event in PVE is just generalized frustration shouting toward the sky. A failed match in WvW can be attributed to the other team, and the same as in PVP as well. Maybe when the day comes where I am approached by random players and ritualistically harassed to leave the overworld map for playing a Necro, then the communities would be equal.

The whole “just make your own LFG and no one will bother you” thing is a big lie. I’ve made countless “anyone welcome”, or “casual run” LFGs. Do you know what happens? Other people will hijack your party and kick you. One player will join and decide to try and solo the whole dungeon before anyone else joins, robbing other players of chests. I’ll watch the LFG, and watch the standard “80s speed exp zerk” parties appear and fill several times over before one person joins my party. They’ll join, see someone who isn’t 80, then immediately leave without saying a word, forcing me to have to put the LFG up again. I’ll still get people who will demand someone (usually the ranger or necro) alt to a “real class”, and then quit the team when they refuse to change.

Psst… your bias is showing

Sthenith.5196:

Although i did have the possibility of making legendaries (getting pre’s from MF) , i will in all probability never make one for the simple fact that you need to do dungeon runs.

The ‘explore’ mode of a dungeon is ‘ok’, but running it several times in order to get a few coin and the rewards to make a legendary is for myself a big nono.

So i don’t run any dungeons in any mode. Never. Ever. And seeing the forums where players complain about getting kicked from pug’s that they even started themselves….well, i’m not sorry for missing out on that part of the game.

My greatest fear is that the dev’s will introduce more dungeons in HoT that you need to run for mats to make a precursor or sumething. If that’s the case, i’m outta this game. And i’m convinced i wouldn’t be the only one.

I really hate Elitists, the people that require you to do something their way because they want to run things fast instead of having fun. For the life of me, i can’t understand why someone would run the same instance over and over and over for the xxxxth time (yes, there are those over 1K runs (and more i’ve heard)) without actually having fun and with a challenge.

I can understand why ppl now solo certain instances ( and it’s not that hard either) even if it takes em much longer. Not having to deal with the self-proclaimed elite would indeed be bliss.

My warrior is full asc zerk with 50 AR, and i’ve done my share of fractals on that one, and even there the so called elitists kick someone from party before you’re even inside…. (and no, nothing mentioned on AP or anything) on a lvl 10 fractal….!

As far as i’m concerned, they can do this (which a lot of mmo’s already implement in some way) :

- make certain bosses in there immune to direct dmg.
- require a certain mob killcount before you can kill a boss otherwise he’ll oneshot everyone.
- one inside, you can’t kick anyone from party or you’ll be booted out completely. (dcing doesn’t count)

Now THAT is what i would call a dungeon. Not this half-baked lump of crap they call a dungeon now.

You realize your argument can be summed up as “how dare they expect me to play a certain way, they should all play how I want to”

People have fun in different ways. It’s not a term limited to a single action. Some of the best fun for me are some of the skips in Arah without (or at least limited) stealth. I also find glass builds to be generally more challenging and fun, not limited to zerk though, any of the 4 stats will work with traits/utilities leaning that direction as well. It takes a level of coordination and teamwork as well as player ability that keeps me on my toes.

Plenty of jerks in this game from all areas, PVP, WvW, Open World PVE, And both Meta and Anti-Meta PVE players. Just jerks everywhere. Generalizing entire groups of players because of the actions of these people is not the correct response though.

All that said, there was a raid in one of my old games where you could bumrush the final boss, however doing so would call every enemy in the zone to the fight. So you’d start to fight and here comes 10 gorillas, a dozen treants, some panthers and various other creatures and their area bosses. It got nasty FAST. It wasn’t for a while after it’s release that people eventually learned how to minimize clearing time by selectively leaving some stuff up and dealing with it while at the boss or killing the boss before it got there. It was a neat mechanic, punished the speedclear but still allowed the possibility. While I wouldn’t want something on that scale at all (initial clears of zone took something like 10-12 hours for 70+ people to do) having a similar mechanic would be something interesting. Extra challenge for the speedrun guys, and incentive to clear for those that enjoy that.

Sthenith.5196:

I really hate Elitists, the people that require you to do something their way because they want to run things fast instead of having fun. For the life of me, i can’t understand why someone would run the same instance over and over and over for the xxxxth time (yes, there are those over 1K runs (and more i’ve heard)) without actually having fun and with a challenge.

Some people enjoy dungeons and do them again and again because they enjoy them. Or because dungeons are one of the most challenging contents in GW2.
Fast dungeonruns are fun, at least for some people. It’s not only about efficient farming – you’d go into SW for that.
In a fast dungeonrun you have to work together as a team, a fullzerk is way more fragile as a fullsoldier (for example). A fullzerk team will wipe when there is no wall of reflection or blind.
A slow less cordinated dungeonrun can be less fun. It can be fun when things go well and you’re having a smooth dungeonrun, everyone knows his job, etc.
Dungeons are not only done to grind gold. SW is more attractive for farm gold

This is a very good question.

People syaing but we have open world bosses and fractals and blah blah blah.. So what? EVERY single mmo has all of these things, but they do not neglect their dungeons either. Can you imagine if WOW was still stuck with the initial vanilla dungeons by the time WOTLK came out?

Because thats basically the situation with GW2

Gwalchgwn.1659:

Wanze.8410:

Behellagh.1468:

Jockum.1385:

SkiTz.4590:

Open world is their focus.
Spamming auto attack, and getting rewards so everyone is a winner and they can also show off their sparkly new dresses to everyone in the zerg. Its a win win for casuals, which is the overwhelming majority in this game.

On the other hand the only teamcontent are dungeons. Open World is singleplayer content.

You’re forgetting Fractals.

And guild missions and world bosses.

Thing is, my friends and I like playing things with 5-15 people. We don’t want an entire zerg to run with us doing something. Open world missions are always overwhelmed with people. I understand anet ideology is for you to connect with others, but you’re not connecting with other players at all right now. You’re just a mob.

GW1 had 18 dungeons, normal and hard mode. 2 elite dungeons. Also every mission and zone on hard mode equated a dungeon. Our guild would do nothing but dungeons (which didn’t reward a lot of money at all, you just hoped for good drops but mostly you’re doing it for fun).

My post was a response to someone who claimed that there is only single player open world content apart from dungens, which isnt true. Opinions might vary on how challenging that content is for groups of different sizes but guild missions and world posses are definately not single player content.

Jerus.4350:

Wanze.8410:

Jerus.4350:

Wanze.8410:

Behellagh.1468:

Jockum.1385:

SkiTz.4590:

Open world is their focus.
Spamming auto attack, and getting rewards so everyone is a winner and they can also show off their sparkly new dresses to everyone in the zerg. Its a win win for casuals, which is the overwhelming majority in this game.

On the other hand the only teamcontent are dungeons. Open World is singleplayer content.

You’re forgetting Fractals.

And guild missions and world bosses.

I’d say only a few world bosses qualify. While there is a massive team at most, they aren’t something you really work together on, just all stand in a pile and pew pew together. I wouldn’t call that a team, more like a mob.

So whatzs the difference to the current dungeon meta of stack and kill?

Is it worth describing or are you just being silly? Simply put, when I go to do Shatter, Fire Elemental, Svanir Shaman, Karka Queen, Jungle Wurm, Mk II, or Shadow Behemoth I equip a range weapon, run to the area, press 1 when it starts and tab back out to waste time on the forums. If I try doing that same thing in a dungeon I’ll not be in there very long and surely won’t finish.

If you do that its your choice, you still have the option to actually contribute towards a faster kill by using proper skill rotations but you prefer to contribute as little as possible.

By doing so, you make a statement that challenging content isnt what youre looking for but rather the rewards are your primary goal.

These days, completing dungeons isnt a challenge either but it seems the option to complete them faster by stacking and killing and using good rotations is an incentive for players.

You can do the same during world bosses, if that is what youre looking for.

Wanze.8410:

Jerus.4350:

Wanze.8410:

Jerus.4350:

Wanze.8410:

Behellagh.1468:

Jockum.1385:

SkiTz.4590:

Open world is their focus.
Spamming auto attack, and getting rewards so everyone is a winner and they can also show off their sparkly new dresses to everyone in the zerg. Its a win win for casuals, which is the overwhelming majority in this game.

On the other hand the only teamcontent are dungeons. Open World is singleplayer content.

You’re forgetting Fractals.

And guild missions and world bosses.

I’d say only a few world bosses qualify. While there is a massive team at most, they aren’t something you really work together on, just all stand in a pile and pew pew together. I wouldn’t call that a team, more like a mob.

So whatzs the difference to the current dungeon meta of stack and kill?

Is it worth describing or are you just being silly? Simply put, when I go to do Shatter, Fire Elemental, Svanir Shaman, Karka Queen, Jungle Wurm, Mk II, or Shadow Behemoth I equip a range weapon, run to the area, press 1 when it starts and tab back out to waste time on the forums. If I try doing that same thing in a dungeon I’ll not be in there very long and surely won’t finish.

If you do that its your choice, you still have the option to actually contribute towards a faster kill by using proper skill rotations but you prefer to contribute as little as possible.

By doing so, you make a statement that challenging content isnt what youre looking for but rather the rewards are your primary goal.

These days, completing dungeons isnt a challenge either but it seems the option to complete them faster by stacking and killing and using good rotations is an incentive for players.

You can do the same during world bosses, if that is what youre looking for.

Im just interested how many fps do u have in a big fight such kitten because in such a fight my pc/laptop is by no means weak i get around 25 fps and if there are a lot more people it goes to 15 where all u can do is press 1 or press something else and hope it lands. The problem with open world bosses and open world group content is that it is not visually appealing as it is now its a lagfest so why dont anet keep the instanced story dungeons which are fun to run they have good lore if i dare say i also like the story explorable way the dungeons are built and I dont see a problem with adding more things to gw making 1 or 2 once in a while….

How many guilds make Tequatl or three headed worm via guild spawn? Please correct me if I am wrong, but not too much. Why? Fear they have to invest 15 minutes in Tequatl for a 2 gold reward? Thanks to the megaserver system, the most annoying part of making the three headed worm is to look for a server that has as less randoms as possible to enable everyone in the respective TS to join in, grudgingly asking for randoms on the card when there are too few people in the TS. If this is not elitist behavior, reasonable or not, then I don´t know what is elitist behavior.
Do not get me wrong here: Every TS I regularly visited for Worm was full with nice people, and the people involved in the organization were friendly and responsive. And it is definitely reasonable to do this because it is so much easier if most people on the worm card are in TS. Some TS groups even make a guild spawn if the first run fails, so nothing to complain here.

I would think that these guilds not inviting random people on their TS don´t make this often because they can be made by random people in the case of Tequatl and you don´t have to kiss the bottoms of your guild members to show up at a certain time.
My other idea is that speed runner and elitist guilds are too small to do such runs.
My third idea is that they can´t be bothered to do a Worm run over and over again, neutralizing therefore the argument that people do dungeons and more challenging events because they like to do them as a group challenge.

Pockets.3201:

Though if people are only running them for the gold reward its kinda difficult to believe they love dungeons. If something was really fun I’d likely do it anyway.

MMOs function by reinforcing repetitive content with progressive rewards. Those rewards transform something otherwise pointless into something satisfying. For example: jumping puzzles. There’s limited enjoyment to be had in getting to random locations in the world, but if you stick a chest at the end, suddenly you have a goal to shoot for and the entire puzzle becomes interesting. Your goal is no longer arbitrary.

Similarly, dungeons are fun to run in that they’re a different kind of challenge from regular content, but it’s still important for them to be rewarding. They used to be far too rewarding, such that basically the entire dungeon community would just find the easiest paths and run them repeatedly until they had a gold advantage over virtually everyone else in the game (CoF p1 was notorious for this). What needs to happen is for the rewards to scale based on the difficulty of each path. You could do this dynamically such that the rewards scale based on how many people have completed that path recently (with decent minimum and sane maximum modulations), thus resulting in a natural wave pattern and incentive to cycle through different paths.

Open world content is fine, but it’s not a replacement for the traditional dungeon experience. The game needs both.

Wanze.8410:

Jerus.4350:

Wanze.8410:

Jerus.4350:

Wanze.8410:

Behellagh.1468:

Jockum.1385:

SkiTz.4590:

Open world is their focus.
Spamming auto attack, and getting rewards so everyone is a winner and they can also show off their sparkly new dresses to everyone in the zerg. Its a win win for casuals, which is the overwhelming majority in this game.

On the other hand the only teamcontent are dungeons. Open World is singleplayer content.

You’re forgetting Fractals.

And guild missions and world bosses.

I’d say only a few world bosses qualify. While there is a massive team at most, they aren’t something you really work together on, just all stand in a pile and pew pew together. I wouldn’t call that a team, more like a mob.

So whatzs the difference to the current dungeon meta of stack and kill?

Is it worth describing or are you just being silly? Simply put, when I go to do Shatter, Fire Elemental, Svanir Shaman, Karka Queen, Jungle Wurm, Mk II, or Shadow Behemoth I equip a range weapon, run to the area, press 1 when it starts and tab back out to waste time on the forums. If I try doing that same thing in a dungeon I’ll not be in there very long and surely won’t finish.

If you do that its your choice, you still have the option to actually contribute towards a faster kill by using proper skill rotations but you prefer to contribute as little as possible.

By doing so, you make a statement that challenging content isnt what youre looking for but rather the rewards are your primary goal.

These days, completing dungeons isnt a challenge either but it seems the option to complete them faster by stacking and killing and using good rotations is an incentive for players.

You can do the same during world bosses, if that is what youre looking for.

You can, yes, but it doesn’t require it in any way. That’s huge if you’re talking about promoting teamwork.