Did you join a zerker only LFG? Are you a power necro or a condi necro? A lot of this stuff matters. Also Ralanost, just because you don’t want the dungeon to take longer than it needs to doesn’t mean you’re an elitist.
I have been playing Necro for a few days now and have yet to get kicked from a party. Been doing some PUG FOTM 40/50 runs and CM runs. Maybe I’m just lucky, though. I’ll report back if I do get kicked.
Asura characters: Zerina | Myndee | Rissa | Jaxxi | Feyyt | Bekka | Sixx | Akee | Tylee | Nuumy
| Claara
Your skin will wrinkle and your youth will fade, but your soul is endless.
Yeah, unfortunately, unless you’re careful about joining a party, the elitists are going to qq over not getting their candy 5 seconds sooner.
Do yourself a favor and look for the kinder keywords:
full clear
all welcome
non-meta
no speedrun
It should save you some trouble, but inevitably, some people will either come troll those groups too, or some quickjoin isn’t going to read the description and throw a fuss.
Many alts; handle it!
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632
Before joining any group on the group finder make sure you read the description. If they say anything about zerker only, or speed runs only, you’ll probably won’t want to join the groups.
It sort of sucks but people are allowed to set any requirements they want for their pug groups. I tend to go with the “don’t be a kitten” req personally
Did you join a zerker only LFG? Are you a power necro or a condi necro? A lot of this stuff matters. Also Ralanost, just because you don’t want the dungeon to take longer than it needs to doesn’t mean you’re an elitist.
Rushing past everything sometimes isn’t fun.
Though I’ve not done Arah since trait change, before I ran it quite well with Necro. Sucking all conditions from team to me and then dealing with them worked wonderfully.
I’ve never kicked a necro out of the party nor have I been kicked for being a necro, but if it says speedrun & they are a minion master or full terror/condi, there’s a problem.
Don’t join speed run groups or those looking for zerkers only. Create your own lfg, add “all welcome” in the description and you’ll get nicer players. I’ve never had a bad experience pugging dungeons because I know how to avoid the min-max crowd.
Did you join a zerker only LFG? Are you a power necro or a condi necro? A lot of this stuff matters. Also Ralanost, just because you don’t want the dungeon to take longer than it needs to doesn’t mean you’re an elitist.
It honestly depends. It depends on what group he is trying to join. If they seem like a normal or casual group and still kick him for being a necro, yeah, they are elitists. They are still elitists if they list the usual speedrun crap, but at least then they are warning people in advance who they will accept.
Are you even sure you were kicked because of necro? Maybe you were kicked because low AP, not being 80, or play/act like a noob, and you just happen to be a necro.
I honestly have not seen any necro being kicked just for being necro, exclude those with obvious bad builds for dungeon(hint: MM necro).
Are you even sure you were kicked because of necro? Maybe you were kicked because low AP, not being 80, or play/act like a noob, and you just happen to be a necro.
I honestly have not seen any necro being kicked just for being necro, exclude those with obvious bad builds for dungeon(hint: MM necro).
AP points are NOT a way to judge skill and frankly I laugh at that.
I think a friend uses it purely to guess how long they’ve been playing. :P
Are you even sure you were kicked because of necro? Maybe you were kicked because low AP, not being 80, or play/act like a noob, and you just happen to be a necro.
I honestly have not seen any necro being kicked just for being necro, exclude those with obvious bad builds for dungeon(hint: MM necro).
AP points are NOT a way to judge skill and frankly I laugh at that.
I think a friend uses it purely to guess how long they’ve been playing. :P
Yeah, AP doesn’t mean much- I’ve been playing since headstart & just got 11k ap.
I’ve seen terrible 20k ap players. Judging someone based on AP is like judging someone just bc they walked through the door.
Are you even sure you were kicked because of necro? Maybe you were kicked because low AP, not being 80, or play/act like a noob, and you just happen to be a necro.
I honestly have not seen any necro being kicked just for being necro, exclude those with obvious bad builds for dungeon(hint: MM necro).
AP points are NOT a way to judge skill and frankly I laugh at that.
I think a friend uses it purely to guess how long they’ve been playing. :P
First off, I know AP is not a way to indicate skill, however, OP seem to believe he was kicked for being a necro, which I don’t believe that was the case.
If he was instantly kicked, the chance are, the group is measuring its member by either AP or level, and has nothing to do with his class.
I’ve never had a problem joining zerker parties as necro. From time to time even had to carry bad PUGs. The problem is that while necro has decent DPS there’s virtually no meaningful support skills so we’re tolerated at best. We did get Vampiric Aura in the patch which is neat, but still totally unnecessary.
Lots of things will get you booted out of even semi casual speed runs. If any of the following apply to you, consider making some adjustments if you want to PUG on this class.
- Sub optimal weapon choices
- Bad build, for e.g. full signet
- A preferred class is missing from the party comp
- ‘Going rogue’. Not stacking, aggroing mobs too early, etc.
- Low AP
Necros and rangers also get a lot of prejudice by default because in the hands of unskilled players they tend to mess up more often than other classes.
Probably has low AP playing with the wrong build and weapons, or didnt read the lfg. I’ve joined countless zerker only runs with my necro and Ive never been kicked.
I don’t often see people getting kicked for playing necro unless someone’s asking for a specific class. For example if Im doing a fractal above 29 and we need a thief and i ask for one and a necro joins…immediate kick.
That being said even though you can call people who kick necros elitists, or try hards the fact is that necros are a really bad class in pve. They bring some things to the table ofc, condi clears jesus pull for rez, etc. But in general there is always a better class to bring. It wouldn’t be so bad if they did a lot of damage, and condi does seem to do more nowadays, but if you look at latest dps charts they are a couple thousand dps worse than a lot of classes.
Ask anet to fix the class, dont ask players who are doing stale content to put up with it. :/
(would really like to see 2 SINISTER guards and 3 normal DPS guardsdo a dungeon atm, I think it would be OP…
Oh and necro’s really help nowadays, vampiric aoe helps zerk to stay alive if they have hiygh hitspeed (axe warrior and the like)
and the fact you take 5 or 6 seconds downing a boss really doesn’t matter.
23 lvl 80’s, 9 times map, 4ele, 4ncr, 3war, 3grd, 3rgr, 2thf, 2msm, 1eng, 1 rev.
Been There, Done That & Will do it again…except maybe world completion.
A lot of the times when i do a dungeon and join a party i get kicked out just because im a necromancer. I mean come on, what’s there even to hate about necroes? Yeah they aren’t the strongest class but seriously. I understand if it’s arah, which is pretty much a mesmer/thief/guardian/warrior dungeon, but im doing CoF and im getting kicked out. For the love of god this is ridiculous.
Everyone has the right to play with whomever they choose. If people don’t want to play with you you can:
1. Find people that do want to play with you.
2. Make your own group.
3. Find the class these “tryhards” want and play it.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
Are you even sure you were kicked because of necro? Maybe you were kicked because low AP, not being 80, or play/act like a noob, and you just happen to be a necro.
I honestly have not seen any necro being kicked just for being necro, exclude those with obvious bad builds for dungeon(hint: MM necro).
AP points are NOT a way to judge skill and frankly I laugh at that.
I think a friend uses it purely to guess how long they’ve been playing. :P
Still – while not very effective it can give you a good idea of what’s going to happen.
I’m pretty sure 8/10 times a guy with 2-3k AP has done significantly worse than that guy with 15k+ ap.
Why? Because if you’ve got 15k AP chances are you’ve spent thousands of hours in the game. That means that statistically there’s a higher chance you know the content, know how to play your class and have experience with the optimal strategy for whatever it is we’re doing.
It’s not guaranteed – but a better chance!
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
Everytime I join a dungeon lfg with AP requirements I get bunch of noobs that doesn’t know how to dodge and when they wipe they just go “anyone not running zerk? I asked for zerk. If you’re not zerk can leave now.”
They also come up with bulls*t like “sigh, there’s a reason you stack in the corner. if you stack Kohler won’t spin” when they failed to dodge the spin because we were stack but Kohler obviously does not give a kitten whether you’re in the corner or not
These “tryhards” just want to spam 11111111 and get their “speedrun” except they always make it longer by not bothering to dodge.
A lot of the times when i do a dungeon and join a party i get kicked out just because im a necromancer. I mean come on, what’s there even to hate about necroes? Yeah they aren’t the strongest class but seriously. I understand if it’s arah, which is pretty much a mesmer/thief/guardian/warrior dungeon, but im doing CoF and im getting kicked out. For the love of god this is ridiculous.
weird. I never get kicked for being a necro.
That being said, I never join those lfg parties looking for a thief or elementalist only with my necro.
Well basicly, arenanet doesn’t understand game development. They think they can remove elitism from the game by dumbing it down. But the world doesn’t work that way. The only thing you can do as a player is accepting that elitism will always be there. Elitism exists even in tetris.
Do fractals. Dungeons are a complete joke in gw2 and only exist to be loot buttons. If you want somewhat challenging PvE, fractals are infinitely better. Plus good fractal groups don’t kick you because you’re not glass cannon zerk-kitten meta fodder. A vamp necro, venom thief, etc is always welcome because most fractals aren’t won by skipping trash and mindless stacking bosses
Are you even sure you were kicked because of necro? Maybe you were kicked because low AP, not being 80, or play/act like a noob, and you just happen to be a necro.
I honestly have not seen any necro being kicked just for being necro, exclude those with obvious bad builds for dungeon(hint: MM necro).
AP points are NOT a way to judge skill and frankly I laugh at that.
I think a friend uses it purely to guess how long they’ve been playing. :P
Still – while not very effective it can give you a good idea of what’s going to happen.
I’m pretty sure 8/10 times a guy with 2-3k AP has done significantly worse than that guy with 15k+ ap.
Why? Because if you’ve got 15k AP chances are you’ve spent thousands of hours in the game. That means that statistically there’s a higher chance you know the content, know how to play your class and have experience with the optimal strategy for whatever it is we’re doing.
It’s not guaranteed – but a better chance!
I’ve actually seen people with 15k+ AP who thought they knew what to do, do much worse than people who were in the dungeon for the first time and just followed the rest of the group. I’ve actually witnessed 15k+ AP people being so bad, that you could as well have the mossman stalk you through the dungeon. Well, the chances of completing the dungeon with the mossman stalking you would actually be higher than with them on the group.
The point is: Someone with low AP is more likely to listen to advice and thus the chances of him getting better in the dungeon are higher. If you get a 15k+ AP fail, there’s usually only a kickvote left.
Shana Flamewielder
Sylvari Elementalist of [SFF]
Abaddons Maul
Are you even sure you were kicked because of necro? Maybe you were kicked because low AP, not being 80, or play/act like a noob, and you just happen to be a necro.
I honestly have not seen any necro being kicked just for being necro, exclude those with obvious bad builds for dungeon(hint: MM necro).
AP points are NOT a way to judge skill and frankly I laugh at that.
I think a friend uses it purely to guess how long they’ve been playing. :P
Still – while not very effective it can give you a good idea of what’s going to happen.
I’m pretty sure 8/10 times a guy with 2-3k AP has done significantly worse than that guy with 15k+ ap.
Why? Because if you’ve got 15k AP chances are you’ve spent thousands of hours in the game. That means that statistically there’s a higher chance you know the content, know how to play your class and have experience with the optimal strategy for whatever it is we’re doing.
It’s not guaranteed – but a better chance!
I’ve actually seen people with 15k+ AP who thought they knew what to do, do much worse than people who were in the dungeon for the first time and just followed the rest of the group. I’ve actually witnessed 15k+ AP people being so bad, that you could as well have the mossman stalk you through the dungeon. Well, the chances of completing the dungeon with the mossman stalking you would actually be higher than with them on the group.
The point is: Someone with low AP is more likely to listen to advice and thus the chances of him getting better in the dungeon are higher. If you get a 15k+ AP fail, there’s usually only a kickvote left.
What you’re saying is true. There are 15K+ AP people who perform TERRIBLY. But that is not the point – the point is there are more chances a 15k+ player will be a good player than there are chances a 3k AP player will be a good player.
Why? I explained it above – because of time played.
Now time played is very important since it will somewhat passively improve your ability to perform in GW2 even if you’re not actively trying to get better.
Look at it this way – even if you’re completely terrible – if you’ve run CoF P1 100 times there’s a very good chance you at least know all the encounters, what is supposed to happen and can be of more use than someone I have to explain the dungeon to from scratch.
There are exceptions to every “rule” but generally – in my experience and that of people I know and have discussed the game with higher AP means better. Lower AP means worse.
And the fact that you assume lower-AP people listen more only proves you’re looking at things from one side of the argument.
In my experience lower-AP people are so “casual” and “laid back” that any attempt to tell them what to do to improve or to speed things along explodes into a “You can’t tell me how to play zerker elitist scum” in about 70% of the cases.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
Tbh I do the opposite. Since Necros have an inherently high health pool+life force I am far more forgiving on lack of experience.
A bad necro is far less likely to die and just has to use their damage skills. I am content with this.
However I am very wary of pug thieves for instance, because it is a high possibility they will spend most of their time in their dungeon becoming intimate with the floor.
Dungeons don’t give you AP. High AP only indicates how much player spent facerolling story.
Time spent is bad indicator top. Simply because there is no punishment for being bad. You can’t learn to be good without game completely wrecking you from time to time. Sadly that’s what devs are trying to avoid.
Dungeons don’t give you AP. High AP only indicates how much player spent facerolling story.
Time spent is bad indicator top. Simply because there is no punishment for being bad. You can’t learn to be good without game completely wrecking you from time to time. Sadly that’s what devs are trying to avoid.
Yeah, honestly? I wish humanoid monsters could stomp you if you were downed for one. Secondly I wish mobs were more difficult but in a meaningful way.
I don’t mean health pools, or damage. I mean they used CLASS mechanics. That is probably one of the parts I think GW1 got the most right. The enemies used class skills so that meant a lot of their difficulty came from meaningful combos that taught you in a way if you were new, and was fun to fight against if you were a vet.
I mean just imagine if some of the more stealthy Mobs had a thief’s skill set, you would have to watch out for backstabs, and steal and such. Heck you could go further and give the classed mobs Specs depending on their lore. Kodan are more sturdy, so tankier bunker specs for them etc.
This would also make it more cohesive with PvP/WvW and allow newer players to get into either with some consistency in what to expect from enemies.
Did you join a zerker only LFG? Are you a power necro or a condi necro? A lot of this stuff matters. Also Ralanost, just because you don’t want the dungeon to take longer than it needs to doesn’t mean you’re an elitist.
Except the amount of time the average zerker PuG shaves off is so minimal compared to a zerker PuG with one necro that you probably make up the difference waiting for someone to replace the necro. Real speed run groups might shave mins off, but PuG zerkers often don’t gain more than seconds.
Did you join a zerker only LFG? Are you a power necro or a condi necro? A lot of this stuff matters. Also Ralanost, just because you don’t want the dungeon to take longer than it needs to doesn’t mean you’re an elitist.
Except the amount of time the average zerker PuG shaves off is so minimal compared to a zerker PuG with one necro that you probably make up the difference waiting for someone to replace the necro. Real speed run groups might shave mins off, but PuG zerkers often don’t gain more than seconds.
Not true, many of the speed run groups will spend those minutes stroking each other’s kittens and reminiscing on how good they are at the game… so all in all it takes about the same time to run a set of dungeons when they take a break after every path to ponder on their brilliance.
I’ve played quite a few MMOs over the years, and while I don’t enjoy dungeons all that much, I do enjoy trying them out in a new game from time to time. But no matter the game, there is a golden rule I always follow:
“LFG (dungeon name) – I’m a newbie looking for other newbies”
And just like that, I usually get a group rather quickly, full of newbies. Some have tried a dungeon a couple of times, and some haven’t tried a dungeon at all. But because I clearly state I’m a newbie looking for other newbies, we all know what to expect: Total failure, lots of fun. It doesn’t matter if we fail, as we are in this together. None of us are experts. If we succeed, that’s great. Yay us. But if we fail, at least we had a lot of fun trying.
Are you even sure you were kicked because of necro? Maybe you were kicked because low AP, not being 80, or play/act like a noob, and you just happen to be a necro.
I honestly have not seen any necro being kicked just for being necro, exclude those with obvious bad builds for dungeon(hint: MM necro).
AP points are NOT a way to judge skill and frankly I laugh at that.
I think a friend uses it purely to guess how long they’ve been playing. :P
First off, I know AP is not a way to indicate skill, however, OP seem to believe he was kicked for being a necro, which I don’t believe that was the case.
If he was instantly kicked, the chance are, the group is measuring its member by either AP or level, and has nothing to do with his class.
Actually I’ve seen and met quite a few people in the past who said they were necro’s and were kicked for their class, actually met one about 2 weeks ago on a JP in Caledon Forest who told me her group had actually told her off and kicked her (guessing she tried to join a speed run) which I find honestly ridiculous especially when your dealing with newer players as it’s a great way to ruin the experience for them. Whenever I do dungeons, (few and far between lol), I enjoy running with random people because like with anything else this is a game and fun is my priority lol. =)
Yea the zerker groups really don’t get dungeons done any faster if you include wait time to fill groups.
I wanted to run CoE paths last night. Was alone and checked LFG. One group available, 3/5 people, 2 rangers and a warrior “80 zerk speedrun don’t suck.” I hung out for a little bit, see what other groups popped up. I also fiddled around on TP while I waited. Couple of story mode groups came and went, and finally I decided I’d whisper them, see if they would accept someone not in zerk that doesn’t suck. They didn’t want me. No problem. Coincidentally a guild group formed up (5 guards omg hilariously OP awesome time). We did path 1 in 9min (awesome considering only two of us were zerk). We pop out, those same 3 guys, still waiting at 3/5 for “80 zerk speedrun don’t suck”.
You were kicked because you didn’t pass lfg criteria:
-Your AP is low
-Your class is not in lfg
-You were not zerker gear
-YOu are not rezzing ppl
-You are doing something wrong
-Bad talk
You should read lfg, there are lots of ppl who don’t even read what was written there often joining wrong path, wrong dungeon with those things I mention above.
You are using the wrong word. You mean to say elitists.
not really, as you do not understand the meaning of that word. An elitist is someone who demands special treatment because he belongs to some special group of people.
An elitist would feel entitled to bring a necro into a dungeon party.
The people described in OP do not demand special treatment. They demand you bring the same efficient gameplay into the group as they do. That is in fact egalitarian, not elitist at all.
Tryhard? Nah, quite the opposite really. In a half decent, experienced zerk party you pretty much switch onto autopilot and breeze through. By the time the chest at the end pops it’s like ‘Wait, we’re finished?’ Lol. ‘Trying’ is the exact opposite of what those groups set out to do.
The golden rule with PUGs is that the majority rules. Casuals shouldn’t reasonable expect a speedrun to change to accommodate them, nor should a Zerker expect newbies or chill players to rush through the path. Of course, only one of these types of player tries to barge into the other’s groups and then kicks up a big fuss about it on the forums…
Kicking someone for being an necro without explicitly stating “no necro” is incredibly rude or specifying whatever classes are needed. Obviously if the thing demands a guardian and you join with a necro, then that’s your fault. Otherwise, it’s just bad communication. And yea, I think it’s rude to join a zerker run without zerker gear as well.
AP requirements are dumb as well; I know people with only like 2k AP but are able to duo Arah fairly simply which is better than anything I could manage; considering that the amount of achievements that actually require skill is so small…
How are necros in dungeons after the changes though?
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards,
for there you have been and there you will long to return.
Tryhard? Nah, quite the opposite really. In a half decent, experienced zerk party you pretty much switch onto autopilot and breeze through. By the time the chest at the end pops it’s like ‘Wait, we’re finished?’ Lol. ‘Trying’ is the exact opposite of what those groups set out to do.
The golden rule with PUGs is that the majority rules. Casuals shouldn’t reasonable expect a speedrun to change to accommodate them, nor should a Zerker expect newbies or chill players to rush through the path. Of course, only one of these types of player tries to barge into the other’s groups and then kicks up a big fuss about it on the forums…
Just because its easy doesnt make them not tryhards. The fact that they feel its necessary to blacklist certain classes instead of just requiring berserker gear proves that they are tryhards. A single necro wont slow a run down much at all. Especially when people know what they are doing. Obviously it gets a bit silly when you have 3 necros and 2 rangers but even then its usually not worth fussing over.
Casual trios with decent players (taking a necro along as well) can be faster than your tryhard LFG groups.
@Archon
Necros are still terrible in dungeons.
But anyone that cares that much about 1 necro in the group has absolutely no clue. And they are probably more concerned about the fact that the necro wont be able to carry them like another class would and that they will actually have to pull their weight to a slight degree more than usual. As long as your group has everything required covered there is no reason to blacklist a certain class. That basically means all you need is might, projectile defence and maybe stealth. Which can be completely covered by 2 players total.
A lot of the times when i do a dungeon and join a party i get kicked out just because im a necromancer. I mean come on, what’s there even to hate about necroes? Yeah they aren’t the strongest class but seriously. I understand if it’s arah, which is pretty much a mesmer/thief/guardian/warrior dungeon, but im doing CoF and im getting kicked out. For the love of god this is ridiculous.
I don’t disagree that it’s unreasonable, since I run on Necro pretty often as well. The point I really wanted to bring across is that we’re all entitled to choose who we let into our parties, for any reason at all.
How are necros in dungeons after the changes though?
Necro’s in a pretty good place for ordinary dungeon farming. Vampiric Aura offers decent healing for you and your party, wells are good AOE for trash mobs. Main hand Axe and Dagger/ Offhand Dagger/Warhorn does decent DPS. In full berserker/assassin gear with fully stacked might and vulnerability I hit Subject Alpha for around 15k with Ghastly Claws. Still low tier but completely serviceable, lots of bosses go down before you’ve finished your full rotation.
Dungeons don’t give you AP. High AP only indicates how much player spent facerolling story.
Time spent is bad indicator top. Simply because there is no punishment for being bad. You can’t learn to be good without game completely wrecking you from time to time. Sadly that’s what devs are trying to avoid.
Agreed – but I’m willing to bet a person that has 3000 hours put into the game can’t be as bad as a person that only has 100-200. Even on their worst day.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
Dungeons don’t give you AP. High AP only indicates how much player spent facerolling story.
Time spent is bad indicator top. Simply because there is no punishment for being bad. You can’t learn to be good without game completely wrecking you from time to time. Sadly that’s what devs are trying to avoid.
Agreed – but I’m willing to bet a person that has 3000 hours put into the game can’t be as bad as a person that only has 100-200. Even on their worst day.
how much will you bet?
If you’re on EU and need help to get into dungeons, pm me.
Dungeons don’t give you AP. High AP only indicates how much player spent facerolling story.
Time spent is bad indicator top. Simply because there is no punishment for being bad. You can’t learn to be good without game completely wrecking you from time to time. Sadly that’s what devs are trying to avoid.
Agreed – but I’m willing to bet a person that has 3000 hours put into the game can’t be as bad as a person that only has 100-200. Even on their worst day.
how much will you bet?
I’m willing to wager a hundred gold.
…Because I know 6000 hour players with alt accounts. Judge them by their AP do not.
Also, comparing 3000 AP/hours has no basis for comparison between 100 AP/hours. A more appropriate basis for comparison is more like 2000 hours versus 6000 hours. Which, even then, is suspect. AP is bad, mkay?
Many alts; handle it!
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632
Dungeons don’t give you AP. High AP only indicates how much player spent facerolling story.
Time spent is bad indicator top. Simply because there is no punishment for being bad. You can’t learn to be good without game completely wrecking you from time to time. Sadly that’s what devs are trying to avoid.
Agreed – but I’m willing to bet a person that has 3000 hours put into the game can’t be as bad as a person that only has 100-200. Even on their worst day.
how much will you bet?
I’m dead serious here. I’ve seen new players. I’ve seen how “good” they can get.
How can you argue that someone who’s put in thousands of hours can be worse than someone who’s only put in 1-2 hundred in most cases?
Sure – there are exceptions – but can you really not see the bigger picture?
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
It doesn’t matter if we fail, as we are in this together. None of us are experts. If we succeed, that’s great. Yay us. But if we fail, at least we had a lot of fun trying.