Guild Wars 2

Rauderi.8706:

oxtred.7658:

Harper.4173:

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Dungeons don’t give you AP. High AP only indicates how much player spent facerolling story.
Time spent is bad indicator top. Simply because there is no punishment for being bad. You can’t learn to be good without game completely wrecking you from time to time. Sadly that’s what devs are trying to avoid.

Agreed – but I’m willing to bet a person that has 3000 hours put into the game can’t be as bad as a person that only has 100-200. Even on their worst day.

how much will you bet?

I’m willing to wager a hundred gold.

…Because I know 6000 hour players with alt accounts. Judge them by their AP do not.

Also, comparing 3000 AP/hours has no basis for comparison between 100 AP/hours. A more appropriate basis for comparison is more like 2000 hours versus 6000 hours. Which, even then, is suspect. AP is bad, mkay?

I understand what you are saying but honestly – AP is the first flag. It’s fast and easy and you don’t have to worry about it much. Some times you can kick really good people based on AP – but it doesn’t really matter since you very rarely get bad players at really high AP ( at least in my opinion) so I am willing to let those really good low-AP players go in order to make sure I rarely get bad players overall.

Harper.4173:

oxtred.7658:

Harper.4173:

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Dungeons don’t give you AP. High AP only indicates how much player spent facerolling story.
Time spent is bad indicator top. Simply because there is no punishment for being bad. You can’t learn to be good without game completely wrecking you from time to time. Sadly that’s what devs are trying to avoid.

Agreed – but I’m willing to bet a person that has 3000 hours put into the game can’t be as bad as a person that only has 100-200. Even on their worst day.

how much will you bet?

I’m dead serious here. I’ve seen new players. I’ve seen how “good” they can get.

How can you argue that someone who’s put in thousands of hours can be worse than someone who’s only put in 1-2 hundred in most cases?
Sure – there are exceptions – but can you really not see the bigger picture?

Because most people in this game are so bad after 3k hours played that the sum of their knowledge is about 2 hours of me teaching a new player, so I’m sure any 500 ap guy that would listen to advices and tips would be better than a 3k, 5k, 10k hours played person that got carried for all that time. No offense meant to anyone, hours played mean nothing if you spend them waiting for 4 other people to give you your reward.

Harper.4173:

Rauderi.8706:

oxtred.7658:

Harper.4173:

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Dungeons don’t give you AP. High AP only indicates how much player spent facerolling story.
Time spent is bad indicator top. Simply because there is no punishment for being bad. You can’t learn to be good without game completely wrecking you from time to time. Sadly that’s what devs are trying to avoid.

Agreed – but I’m willing to bet a person that has 3000 hours put into the game can’t be as bad as a person that only has 100-200. Even on their worst day.

how much will you bet?

I’m willing to wager a hundred gold.

…Because I know 6000 hour players with alt accounts. Judge them by their AP do not.

Also, comparing 3000 AP/hours has no basis for comparison between 100 AP/hours. A more appropriate basis for comparison is more like 2000 hours versus 6000 hours. Which, even then, is suspect. AP is bad, mkay?

I understand what you are saying but honestly – AP is the first flag. It’s fast and easy and you don’t have to worry about it much. Some times you can kick really good people based on AP – but it doesn’t really matter since you very rarely get bad players at really high AP ( at least in my opinion) so I am willing to let those really good low-AP players go in order to make sure I rarely get bad players overall.

Nah you get bad players on both ends of the spectrum. In my experience people with 15k + AP are usually worse than those around 5-10k. And by worse i mean much worse, as in shoutheal warriors, people who don’t understand los etc.

I know AP isnt the best thing to create restrictions on but I like to set it at around 3k AP for dungeons like arah or fractals and ask if the person is on an alt or not. Id rather kick someone at the start than wait fora bit until i get annoyed enough to kick them/keep quiet and carry them through grudgingly.

oxtred.7658:

Harper.4173:

oxtred.7658:

Harper.4173:

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Dungeons don’t give you AP. High AP only indicates how much player spent facerolling story.
Time spent is bad indicator top. Simply because there is no punishment for being bad. You can’t learn to be good without game completely wrecking you from time to time. Sadly that’s what devs are trying to avoid.

Agreed – but I’m willing to bet a person that has 3000 hours put into the game can’t be as bad as a person that only has 100-200. Even on their worst day.

how much will you bet?

I’m dead serious here. I’ve seen new players. I’ve seen how “good” they can get.

How can you argue that someone who’s put in thousands of hours can be worse than someone who’s only put in 1-2 hundred in most cases?
Sure – there are exceptions – but can you really not see the bigger picture?

Because most people in this game are so bad after 3k hours played that the sum of their knowledge is about 2 hours of me teaching a new player, so I’m sure any 500 ap guy that would listen to advices and tips would be better than a 3k, 5k, 10k hours played person that got carried for all that time. No offense meant to anyone, hours played mean nothing if you spend them waiting for 4 other people to give you your reward.

Funny but most new players aren’t taught by you. They’re just new. And know little to nothing about the game.
Also I don’t teach – I don’t have the patience or personality for that.
I do dungeons and content for the reward not to constantly have to tell someone where to be and what to do. I prefer to run with people that already know all that.

I must say, playing as a necro in a dungeon has brought me undue criticism many times in the past, to the point where the whole group blames me for things that are completely out of my hands and make no sense. I usually take this quietly, as there is no point in having a discussion with toxic, name-calling players. It gets absurd, though. I’ve seen it on numerous occasions where the entire group wipes minus me, and I get blamed because of an alleged lack of dps. Thing is, I see these PUGs get wiped in literally 2-3 seconds by a single boss (especially some of the TA encounters). If I ever spoke to these people, I would say… "No, I am not alive because I built defense over offense (as I did not). I am alive because of a well timed dodge roll. The rest of you did nothing but run up to the target spamming 1. Are any of you aware that you have a dodge roll? Are any of you aware you have a heal? I ask these because none of you seem to use them. Most importantly, are any of you aware of yourselves? Ele, you never drop any fire fields. Guard, you see those things above your weapon skill bar? They’re called “virtues”. Use them! Warrior, is your patron saint Leeroy Jenkins? Ranger… the heck are you even doing? Get on the stack! It does not matter what profession I play, what build I use, what tactics I employ, because none of you have any clue what you are doing, I am starting to suspect that your proclaimed experience with this dungeon is entirely imaginary, and nothing can save you from yourselves."
Now, I am not going to pretend that I am some kind of MLG dungeon god, but what I am is a reasonably capable player. Heck, I’ve even sneaked my way into some zerker only PUGs in soldier’s gear and had perfectly smooth runs that ended with people saying how we made such good time and even giving me an occasional “gj”.
I haven’t run dungeons for a few months now due to that fact that the displays I too often see leave me feeling depressed. When I do go back I will probably use my guard. I doubt that will make things any easier, but at least it will probably divert undeserved blame.
I did have a thought while typing this though… Perhaps what I have seen stems from some player being aware of a “zerker meta”, and thinking that this means using all zerker’s gear will make them automatically good, without realizing that if they don’t keep their brains on, avoid standing in bad places, and use active defense, they will fail time and time again.
I also only see these problems in the core dungeons. Fractals seem to be relatively free from it all. Perhaps because people take fractals less seriously?
(Please forgive me for the ugly wall of text.)

oxtred.7658:

Harper.4173:

oxtred.7658:

Harper.4173:

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Dungeons don’t give you AP. High AP only indicates how much player spent facerolling story.
Time spent is bad indicator top. Simply because there is no punishment for being bad. You can’t learn to be good without game completely wrecking you from time to time. Sadly that’s what devs are trying to avoid.

Agreed – but I’m willing to bet a person that has 3000 hours put into the game can’t be as bad as a person that only has 100-200. Even on their worst day.

how much will you bet?

I’m dead serious here. I’ve seen new players. I’ve seen how “good” they can get.

How can you argue that someone who’s put in thousands of hours can be worse than someone who’s only put in 1-2 hundred in most cases?
Sure – there are exceptions – but can you really not see the bigger picture?

Because most people in this game are so bad after 3k hours played that the sum of their knowledge is about 2 hours of me teaching a new player, so I’m sure any 500 ap guy that would listen to advices and tips would be better than a 3k, 5k, 10k hours played person that got carried for all that time. No offense meant to anyone, hours played mean nothing if you spend them waiting for 4 other people to give you your reward.

Hey man, some people who have played this game for years don’t know that vengeance form from warrior downstate can’t cap a point in Spvp.

They also don’t know that Earth 2 on Dagger blocks missiles for a small period of time.

The more you know.

PistolWhip.2697:

Hey man, some people who have played this game for years don’t know that vengeance form from warrior downstate can’t cap a point in Spvp.

Wait… That’s me. Crap.
Oh, well. At least I have the excuse of never using warrior is sPvP.

Harper.4173:

Funny but most new players aren’t taught by you. They’re just new. And know little to nothing about the game.
Also I don’t teach – I don’t have the patience or personality for that.
I do dungeons and content for the reward not to constantly have to tell someone where to be and what to do. I prefer to run with people that already know all that.

If you expect to play with people who know the dungeon, then you have to show new players from time to time what to do. If no one teaches them, they will either quit or become bad players that fail dungeons others worked hard for.

All those dungeon-bugs! Either someone teaches you about them and how to avoid them, or you accidentally run into them and have to restart the dungeon (worst case). For example if no one teaches a new player that AC p1 will be bugged if you run through the graveling-tunnels after getting the second sceptre before the event spawns, someone might actually run ahead and ruin the run for everyone.

Of course it’s easyer to run together with players that know the dungeon, but from time to time you have to make sure that the amount of players knowing what to do remains high. That’s when you open a lfg-group with “new players welcome” and explain every single detail.

Add me. And if you see me around, I will join you in any dungeons.

Can I tell you about high AP pug fractals. I have 15k AP. over 2000 runs I know fractals inside out. And I have warriors not running PS, ele’s not running persisting flames, Guadians not using WoR or SoA or doing things like GS5 on chanters at boss. Sometimes I even have warriors that don’t run banners. The worst thing is these people think they are leet and won’t take advice. More often than not I get responses like " …….." Just tonight I had 2 guards, one with 23k AP who just said “……” After I explained 3 times how to GS5 the chanters to the middle and drop WoR. Of course he was quick to use GS5 when all stacks were off and I was going to Deep Freeze.

Although I don’t mind terribly much. Carrying at least makes it challenging and more interesting.

If a dungeon group is overly hostile to a random person, and I mean hostile for things like not hitting thier marks once or making a small mistake I usually wont make as much of an effort to help and will usually leave at an important fight. Yeah I’m that guy, but spouting off “Oi ! be nice” will usually just get me kicked anyway. Generally I stay from Pugs, Mostly because all Zerker Speedruns plauge the LFG and its not really any fun to dungeon in a stackfest anyway.

Once I have seen Ascended Only in LFG.

Ironically, these are the same sort of people who come to the SW, decked out in their fancy equipment, to stand afk at boss until all the plebeians have done the work for them.

You’re either picking the wrong parties or not using your class well.

I never have a problem picking up pug groups as a necro in any dungeon I want to run. Just don’t join those groups that demand “80 only ping zerk gear 6kAP+”, because they will likely kick anyone who pugs with them on the first miss-step.

BunjiKugashira.9754:

Harper.4173:

Kalavier.1097:

LastShot.4762:

Are you even sure you were kicked because of necro? Maybe you were kicked because low AP, not being 80, or play/act like a noob, and you just happen to be a necro.

I honestly have not seen any necro being kicked just for being necro, exclude those with obvious bad builds for dungeon(hint: MM necro).

AP points are NOT a way to judge skill and frankly I laugh at that.

I think a friend uses it purely to guess how long they’ve been playing. :P

Still – while not very effective it can give you a good idea of what’s going to happen.

I’m pretty sure 8/10 times a guy with 2-3k AP has done significantly worse than that guy with 15k+ ap.
Why? Because if you’ve got 15k AP chances are you’ve spent thousands of hours in the game. That means that statistically there’s a higher chance you know the content, know how to play your class and have experience with the optimal strategy for whatever it is we’re doing.
It’s not guaranteed – but a better chance!

I’ve actually seen people with 15k+ AP who thought they knew what to do, do much worse than people who were in the dungeon for the first time and just followed the rest of the group. I’ve actually witnessed 15k+ AP people being so bad, that you could as well have the mossman stalk you through the dungeon. Well, the chances of completing the dungeon with the mossman stalking you would actually be higher than with them on the group.

The point is: Someone with low AP is more likely to listen to advice and thus the chances of him getting better in the dungeon are higher. If you get a 15k+ AP fail, there’s usually only a kickvote left.

Odds are someone with low AP has also run the dungeon hundreds or thousands of times as well. It’s pretty hard to gain AP if all you did was run dungeons

Funny thing:
Yesterday i startet a group with two other members of my guild. We did some dungeons and after a while a guy joined, who only got 733AP. Wich was no problem because the lfg i put in said: [READ] P1 Nice peolpe only"
He did very well and he stayed in group for a while, dungeon after dungeon…
But then a other guy with just 5 or 8k joined and pointed out : “lol a guy with only 733AP!” And tried to kick him…
Well… that was the wrong move a few sec later that new guy got kicked…
Remember the lfg said [READ] Px nice people only!"

I dont get it…AP say nothing but for some people even “nice” means AP check…

Dinks.2478:

Did you join a zerker only LFG? Are you a power necro or a condi necro? A lot of this stuff matters. Also Ralanost, just because you don’t want the dungeon to take longer than it needs to doesn’t mean you’re an elitist.

People that care about that are ironically not as keen on kicking people. Kicking mean more time wasted on looking for someone else.

Wasting 15-20 minutes on kicking people because they are not up to your standarts, just to save 5 mins on dungeon clear is usually a behaviour motivated by elitist tendencies, not just wanting to save time.

BunjiKugashira.9754:

Harper.4173:

Funny but most new players aren’t taught by you. They’re just new. And know little to nothing about the game.
Also I don’t teach – I don’t have the patience or personality for that.
I do dungeons and content for the reward not to constantly have to tell someone where to be and what to do. I prefer to run with people that already know all that.

If you expect to play with people who know the dungeon, then you have to show new players from time to time what to do. If no one teaches them, they will either quit or become bad players that fail dungeons others worked hard for.

All those dungeon-bugs! Either someone teaches you about them and how to avoid them, or you accidentally run into them and have to restart the dungeon (worst case). For example if no one teaches a new player that AC p1 will be bugged if you run through the graveling-tunnels after getting the second sceptre before the event spawns, someone might actually run ahead and ruin the run for everyone.

Of course it’s easyer to run together with players that know the dungeon, but from time to time you have to make sure that the amount of players knowing what to do remains high. That’s when you open a lfg-group with “new players welcome” and explain every single detail.

Because online guides and youtube videos aren’t enough right? I have to personally show everyone what to do? Don’t think so.
Before I attempt new content I look it up, read the guide and watch the video if I know that my lack of experience could ruin the run for others. I guess others don’t.

Lordwafflez.4163:

A lot of the times when i do a dungeon and join a party i get kicked out just because im a necromancer. I mean come on, what’s there even to hate about necroes? Yeah they aren’t the strongest class but seriously. I understand if it’s arah, which is pretty much a mesmer/thief/guardian/warrior dungeon, but im doing CoF and im getting kicked out. For the love of god this is ridiculous.

I don’t mean this to come across as ignorant but I was wondering when you get kicked-is it at the beginning of the dungeon or somewhere in the middle of it?

Dinks.2478:

Did you join a zerker only LFG? Are you a power necro or a condi necro? A lot of this stuff matters. Also Ralanost, just because you don’t want the dungeon to take longer than it needs to doesn’t mean you’re an elitist.

Actually, it is Elitist. If a person is in a mind set of I want to get this done with no lost of time, so I require ppl with this gear before I can think of knowing if they know how to play. You only want a elite party.

Nothing wrong with having standards even prejudgments of this nature but that’s the word for it.

Back when I was running PUG fractals I didn’t care who joined as long as we got it done. I had many Necros (and rangers) join and ask if their class was okay to play, because I wouldn’t specify. Made me feel bad for them that they felt they needed to ask permission to play their class.

Only time I kick now is if our LFG is asking for a specific class and someone not of that class joins. Even then I ask the player if they have the desired class before trying to kick them.

My friend whom I play with is a old Gw1 veteran and he loves his necro. He joins fractrals with it (altho he has all classes lvl 80 and geared) and are moments when I’m greatefull for his class being there.
He has 21k AP but again, thats irrelevant as myself I dont see the AP being the determinant factor related with how good or bad a player is. Communication, listening and avoiding/correcting mistakes is essential.
Elitism at its finest is shown everywhere (pve and pvp) but in the end, having fun and a good time is what matters.

I love necros in instances/fractals. I dont mind having any class as long they learn by trial and error. Cant count the times when my “9lives cat” necro friend saved the day while I was dead on the floor from rolling a splif and he had to finish the kitten boss.
PS: not to get me wrong , im zerk guardian but that doesnt automatically means that I approve this “meta” bs and elitism. I would rather have 3 new players to teach them in fractals rather than 1 elitist cupcake that stresses everyone with rush and skips. Rushes and skips have their usage but they also have their specific time and place, not all the time and everywhere.
We always post at the end of LFG message “fun run” so ppl know that is friendly run and join it w/o any fear of getting rejected. And we always got it done and at least players learned smth from it at the cost of extra 10 more minutes compared with midless zerks and class specific runs.

LazySummer.2568:

Everytime I join a dungeon lfg with AP requirements I get bunch of noobs that doesn’t know how to dodge and when they wipe they just go “anyone not running zerk? I asked for zerk. If you’re not zerk can leave now.”

They also come up with bulls*t like “sigh, there’s a reason you stack in the corner. if you stack Kohler won’t spin” when they failed to dodge the spin because we were stack but Kohler obviously does not give a kitten whether you’re in the corner or not

These “tryhards” just want to spam 11111111 and get their “speedrun” except they always make it longer by not bothering to dodge.

Sure, Jan.

Why are we still suggesting that speedruns are just 1111111? Literally no rotation is that. None. At all. And anyone doing that, is trash, regardless of what gear they are in.

Harper.4173:

I understand what you are saying but honestly – AP is the first flag. It’s fast and easy and you don’t have to worry about it much. Some times you can kick really good people based on AP – but it doesn’t really matter since you very rarely get bad players at really high AP ( at least in my opinion) so I am willing to let those really good low-AP players go in order to make sure I rarely get bad players overall.

I have played for 230 days, over 1000 hours of ingame time, been in multiple high end speedclearing guilds, and over the course of that time i have accumulated roughly 2000ap, because I simply can’t be kitten d to grind dailies/story/whatever gives ap.

During those 230 days, I could have gotten 2300 extra AP by only doing my dailies.
By doing that I would have 4300 AP, which would make people a lot less judgemental.
But all I had to do for that 2300 extra AP was kill some mobs in queensdale, complete some events and gather some stuff.

According to your logic, you would kick someone that probably knows more about the dungeon than you, because he has low AP, but you would let someone that gained 10,000AP doing WvW and dailies stay, just because they have a higher number of AP next to their name?
You might want to uninstall the game.

Dungeons don’t give AP, hobby dungeon explorer caps at 200ap, and other than that there aren’t really achievements for dungeons.
Its bullkitten to filter people for certain content by AP, while you can’t gain AP by doing that content.
That’s the same as making a CoF party and asking people to ping a stack of pristine fractal relics

bladex.9502:

I have played for 230 days, over 1000 hours of ingame time, been in multiple high end speedclearing guilds, and over the course of that time i have accumulated roughly 2000ap, because I simply can’t be kitten d to grind dailies/story/whatever gives ap.

You’re not the average player. Most players will start playing story, explore the world, maybe even try wvw and pvp. Its hard to avoid getting AP.
Ofc there are good low AP Players. But the average low AP player has less experience. Maybe is not even full equipped.
AP requirements improve your chance to get a player with more experience.
Most low AP players are beginners. Not speedrun guild members.

Low AP players that are likely to be beginners have less than 1k AP. So any AP requirement higher than that is silly. AP requirements in general are stupid. There are better ways to identify inexperienced players in your groups.

rapthorne.7345:

Just don’t join those groups that demand “80 only ping zerk gear 6kAP+”, because they will likely kick anyone who pugs with them on the first miss-step.

This is the unfortunate aspect of exclusion behavior combined with convenience access to group content. The combination works only if everyone is competent. There is no guarantee that incompetents won’t end up kicking competent players. After all, people in general generally sling blame onto anyone but themselves when there’s a a problem.

Unfortunately, the only ways to ensure that can’t happen are to either limit convenience or to remove the possibility of exclusion — and both methods have their own drawbacks.

Speed-runners stick with speed-runners. Do this and the speed runners are happy. Speed-runners in a casual group = OMG this is taking forever what the kitten -> some one gets kicked and they go on the forums to complain!

Casual/play how I want ppl stick with anyone welcome etc. groups. Do this and the casuals are happy. Casuals in a speed run group = OMG why did I get kicked??? -> go on the forums to complain.

Stick with people who have similar playstyles and stop trashing others for how they like to play the game. Stop with the self righteousness. There is no best way to play for everyone.

My favorite is when I join a team of people with 3-4k ap while I’m on my necro…. completely intending to swap to a useful class for dungeons after joining the team….. and I get kicked with no explaination…. only to rejoin on a warrior or guardian with no issue.

Don’t these people realize everyone has 7+ alts nowadays?

They aren’t even the good kind of elitists…. and don’t even have the intelligence to ask if a player can reroll before getting boot happy.

I think its a safe assumption that anyone with over 15kap has at least one alt.

Harper.4173:

BunjiKugashira.9754:

Harper.4173:

Funny but most new players aren’t taught by you. They’re just new. And know little to nothing about the game.
Also I don’t teach – I don’t have the patience or personality for that.
I do dungeons and content for the reward not to constantly have to tell someone where to be and what to do. I prefer to run with people that already know all that.

If you expect to play with people who know the dungeon, then you have to show new players from time to time what to do. If no one teaches them, they will either quit or become bad players that fail dungeons others worked hard for.

All those dungeon-bugs! Either someone teaches you about them and how to avoid them, or you accidentally run into them and have to restart the dungeon (worst case). For example if no one teaches a new player that AC p1 will be bugged if you run through the graveling-tunnels after getting the second sceptre before the event spawns, someone might actually run ahead and ruin the run for everyone.

Of course it’s easyer to run together with players that know the dungeon, but from time to time you have to make sure that the amount of players knowing what to do remains high. That’s when you open a lfg-group with “new players welcome” and explain every single detail.

Because online guides and youtube videos aren’t enough right? I have to personally show everyone what to do? Don’t think so.
Before I attempt new content I look it up, read the guide and watch the video if I know that my lack of experience could ruin the run for others. I guess others don’t.

Man… how did we ever manage to do /anything/ before these guides and videos were available?
Those must have been dark days indeed, when people could only figure out video games (and much of anything else for that matter) through trial and error…

Aberrant.6749:

Speed-runners stick with speed-runners. Do this and the speed runners are happy. Speed-runners in a casual group = OMG this is taking forever what the kitten -> some one gets kicked and they go on the forums to complain!

Casual/play how I want ppl stick with anyone welcome etc. groups. Do this and the casuals are happy. Casuals in a speed run group = OMG why did I get kicked??? -> go on the forums to complain.

Stick with people who have similar playstyles and stop trashing others for how they like to play the game. Stop with the self righteousness. There is no best way to play for everyone.

The problem is that actual speed runners that have any clue what they are doing don’t show such behavior.
The people that join a casual LFG and then complain its taking forever and ragequit are people that think metabattle is the holy grail and that they are the best players in the world just by using a certain build, and then expect other people to have the same mindset

Ijs… If you are still playing with people who are kicking necros post patch .. You don’t want to be in those parties because they are likely idiots.

Necros arent really any better post patch. Life steal and reworked blood magic creates an illusion of usefulness that people havent caught on to yet. Its a bit of group sustain and inconsequential damage. But its hardly useful.

That said people that exclude classes without reason are usually idiots anyway.

If you joined a party without reading the specifications then it’s your own fault. eg: LF2M Warrior +Two rangers join = /kick.

Unfortunately for “speed run” groups that means you have to be strictly meta, which necro is not.

However I agree it’s a bit silly, I’d never kick a person from a party unless they are legitimately useless as an individual, or over the top rude.

CoF esp can be soloed anyways if it was not for gate room… but w/e. >>

OP if you are struggling to find a group make your own and include things like “Anyone welcome” or “Knows gate room” hell if you feel like teaching you can also put “first timers welcome.” It’s not hard to tell someone to stay still and if they have to die, die in a specific spot.

^ Again I agree that the elitism is over the top esp for PvE. But I bet if we had more people doing this we’d have less of these posts.

Some of the best and most efficient runs I’ve been in were three guardians and myself as one of two necros. They were also guild runs with no pressure, not that anyone even got downed that much. I’ve also taken my necro to Arah and fractals and held my own just fine.

Edit: to address the AP thing – I’ve been playing on and off since headstart and am just now coming up on 8k points. AP does not equate to time played.

bladex.9502:

Aberrant.6749:

Speed-runners stick with speed-runners. Do this and the speed runners are happy. Speed-runners in a casual group = OMG this is taking forever what the kitten -> some one gets kicked and they go on the forums to complain!

Casual/play how I want ppl stick with anyone welcome etc. groups. Do this and the casuals are happy. Casuals in a speed run group = OMG why did I get kicked??? -> go on the forums to complain.

Stick with people who have similar playstyles and stop trashing others for how they like to play the game. Stop with the self righteousness. There is no best way to play for everyone.

The problem is that actual speed runners that have any clue what they are doing don’t show such behavior.
The people that join a casual LFG and then complain its taking forever and ragequit are people that think metabattle is the holy grail and that they are the best players in the world just by using a certain build, and then expect other people to have the same mindset

Please stop trying to bash people who chose to play differently from you. It’s not helping.

No true scottsman fallacy.

I’ve been in many good speed runs where it’s obvious one person wasn’t pulling their weight for whatever reason and they got booted. When the player is replaced everything went extremely smoothly.

I have also seen casuals try to join a speed run that when asked link gear, they link a bunch of defensive PVT type gear, are using a PP built thief, etc., then get upset when they get kicked.

It’s not just one side or the other, both try to shove what they like onto the other from time to time. I don’t know why though, seems pretty childish. Just stick with players that want to play the same way that you do.

Personally idc which type of party it is and I can adjust. Some times I have very little time and I’ll go with a speed run, other times I have more time and I don’t mind playing a build that will work better with more casual players, but will take slightly longer. Others don’t wish to play one of those styles ever and that’s their choice and no one’s opinion of which is better is the “best” way for everyone to play.

Aberrant.6749:

Personally idc which type of party it is and I can adjust. Some times I have very little time and I’ll go with a speed run, other times I have more time and I don’t mind playing a build that will work better with more casual players, but will take slightly longer. Others don’t wish to play one of those styles ever and that’s their choice and no one’s opinion of which is better is the “best” way for everyone to play.

If you want a “speed” run, you don’t pug at all

bladex.9502:

Aberrant.6749:

Personally idc which type of party it is and I can adjust. Some times I have very little time and I’ll go with a speed run, other times I have more time and I don’t mind playing a build that will work better with more casual players, but will take slightly longer. Others don’t wish to play one of those styles ever and that’s their choice and no one’s opinion of which is better is the “best” way for everyone to play.

If you want a “speed” run, you don’t pug at all

He meant PuG version of a “speed” run, i.e., not too slow.

I’ll never understand the necro hate. Power wells hit like a truck.

bladex.9502:

Aberrant.6749:

Personally idc which type of party it is and I can adjust. Some times I have very little time and I’ll go with a speed run, other times I have more time and I don’t mind playing a build that will work better with more casual players, but will take slightly longer. Others don’t wish to play one of those styles ever and that’s their choice and no one’s opinion of which is better is the “best” way for everyone to play.

If you want a “speed” run, you don’t pug at all

I really hope you’re not trying to say that people that want faster than casual runs shouldn’t even use the LFG tool…

IndigoSundown.5419:

He meant PuG version of a “speed” run, i.e., not too slow.

Indeed, not world record setting speed runs, but full zerk with meta classes and builds. It won’t be as fast as a full on premade, but faster than the casual type runs.

nolop.8095:

Playing necro in dungeons is like feeding in DOTA or LoL. You make it harder for your team to win, if on purpose or not doesn’t matter.

How so? I don’t play DOTA so I don’t know what Feeding is, but do tell me how my bringing my necromancer into a dungeon actually makes the dungeon harder for the rest of the team.

Also, AP requirements are laughable. I have 10k points, I’m knowledgable in the game. I don’t heavily PVP or do WvW (so I lose out on those achievement points).

Harper.4173:

Agreed – but I’m willing to bet a person that has 3000 hours put into the game can’t be as bad as a person that only has 100-200. Even on their worst day.

Depends on what they put their hours into.

Somebody who does ONLY pvp, I would not be surprised to see do badly in a dungeon. Somebody might master AC, yet do badly in twilight arbor.

Dinks.2478:

Did you join a zerker only LFG? Are you a power necro or a condi necro? A lot of this stuff matters. Also Ralanost, just because you don’t want the dungeon to take longer than it needs to doesn’t mean you’re an elitist.

Actually, that’s kind of exactly what it means.

It means you refuse to do anything that you deem “Imperfect”, including taking on a party member that “Hampers” your DPS. I can’t even do the level 35 dungeon because of people like that.

Brian Ponder.9017:

Dinks.2478:

Did you join a zerker only LFG? Are you a power necro or a condi necro? A lot of this stuff matters. Also Ralanost, just because you don’t want the dungeon to take longer than it needs to doesn’t mean you’re an elitist.

Actually, that’s kind of exactly what it means.

It means you refuse to do anything that you deem “Imperfect”, including taking on a party member that “Hampers” your DPS. I can’t even do the level 35 dungeon because of people like that.

The dungeon levels in this game are misleading. Explorable dungeons are for the most part done by 80s. It’s possible to do with the level minimum for the dungeon but that makes things much slower than it needs to be and most pug people won’t accept sub 80s in their explorable dungeon runs.

DeathPanel.8362:

Brian Ponder.9017:

Dinks.2478:

Did you join a zerker only LFG? Are you a power necro or a condi necro? A lot of this stuff matters. Also Ralanost, just because you don’t want the dungeon to take longer than it needs to doesn’t mean you’re an elitist.

Actually, that’s kind of exactly what it means.

It means you refuse to do anything that you deem “Imperfect”, including taking on a party member that “Hampers” your DPS. I can’t even do the level 35 dungeon because of people like that.

The dungeon levels in this game are misleading. Explorable dungeons are for the most part done by 80s. It’s possible to do with the level minimum for the dungeon but that makes things much slower than it needs to be and most pug people won’t accept sub 80s in their explorable dungeon runs.

IMO it’s not “elitist” to try to have a fast smooth run. Feels like a lot of anger or resentment from the casual crowd in this thread : /

Start your own party?

Aberrant.6749:

DeathPanel.8362:

Brian Ponder.9017:

Dinks.2478:

Did you join a zerker only LFG? Are you a power necro or a condi necro? A lot of this stuff matters. Also Ralanost, just because you don’t want the dungeon to take longer than it needs to doesn’t mean you’re an elitist.

Actually, that’s kind of exactly what it means.

It means you refuse to do anything that you deem “Imperfect”, including taking on a party member that “Hampers” your DPS. I can’t even do the level 35 dungeon because of people like that.

The dungeon levels in this game are misleading. Explorable dungeons are for the most part done by 80s. It’s possible to do with the level minimum for the dungeon but that makes things much slower than it needs to be and most pug people won’t accept sub 80s in their explorable dungeon runs.

IMO it’s not “elitist” to try to have a fast smooth run. Feels like a lot of anger or resentment from the casual crowd in this thread : /

Welcome to GW2 where anything above watching TV while you auto-attack an HP sponge is considered being a “try hard”, and expecting 1 party member to not weigh down the other 4 or asking for generally harder content makes you an “Elitist”.

AP really shouldn’t be looked at as many have alt accounts due to the recent $10 sales. These accounts may not have many AP but are owned by experienced players—-I fall into this category. I have one account with over 10K and one with just over 1K AP. I sometimes run under my 1k just to see how I am treated. Overall, pretty well.

Also Necromancer has a bit more to offer groups than just the blood line. How about Blood is Power which stacks 8 might instantly for the entire group? A pretty useful utility in addition to the vampiric auras and DS tricks. Wells are more useful (ground targeting) and so are staff marks. Before kicking a necro, one may need to revisit the class. It’s gotten a lot better for groups.

Nyx.7342:

I don’t often see people getting kicked for playing necro unless someone’s asking for a specific class. For example if Im doing a fractal above 29 and we need a thief and i ask for one and a necro joins…immediate kick.

That being said even though you can call people who kick necros elitists, or try hards the fact is that necros are a really bad class in pve. They bring some things to the table ofc, condi clears jesus pull for rez, etc. But in general there is always a better class to bring. It wouldn’t be so bad if they did a lot of damage, and condi does seem to do more nowadays, but if you look at latest dps charts they are a couple thousand dps worse than a lot of classes.

Ask anet to fix the class, dont ask players who are doing stale content to put up with it. :/

The problem with bumping up necro DPS would be that it would be super OP. No class can compare to the sustainability of necromancer. Even if you cut the HP in half, shroud still gives you that extra cushion.

Aberrant.6749:

IMO it’s not “elitist” to try to have a fast smooth run.

Indeed. When the time and effort put into having a perfect group for that smooth run outweights time the same dungeon path would have taken with average puggers however (and in many cases it does), the situation changes.

Astralporing.1957:

Aberrant.6749:

IMO it’s not “elitist” to try to have a fast smooth run.

Indeed. When the time and effort put into having a perfect group for that smooth run outweights time the same dungeon path would have taken with average puggers however (and in many cases it does), the situation changes.

The speed/faster run parties that I’ve been apart of aren’t looking for a totally perfect group. They just want some one that’s meta and not really bad at the game.

I have seen lfg posts for class X with build Y only or kick, but that’s very rare.

There are players that would prefer to spend slightly longer looking to have a clean run rather than deal with some frustration if the party makeup is bad. You can always be alt/tabbed, playing the tp, or whatever while looking for players. It just depends on what the people involved value. It’s their game… however others choose to play is fine with me.