Guild Wars 2

during the beta weekend, i look at the roman numerals on the traits …
i was thinking, we’ll get icons when the game goes retail …

it has been more than a year …
still Roman numerals and no icons …
when are we getting icons?

if you have not enough resources, you could organize a competition and let the community draw up some icons for you.
i am sure many people would be very happy to contribute.

so, why are traits roman numerals and not icons?

the current system,
i see roman numerals only. i.e. I, II, III, IV, V …
at first glance, these numbers tell me nothing.
they are just numbers.

i do not see the names and description unless i mouse over it.
i must mouse over to check the names and description each time.

tell me, how are generic roman numerals better than unique icons identifiable at first glance? with icons, i can know at first glance what each trait do.

the pop up window can be made larger if the icons are too small.
refer to the attached image for example.

at first glance, i can know what are the traits. i remember their icons.
but with roman numerals, all i see are just generic roman numerals.

in that example, at first glance, i will know the name of the traits:
empowered, leg specialist, lung capacity, desperate power, stronger bow strings,
and with inspiring banners being the chosen trait.

with roman numerals, all i see are just generic roman numerals.
they tell me nothing.

any arguments about “easier to share builds” is totally invalid.
strength IV tells me nothing about the trait.
the issue of sharing traits builds can easily resolved by allowing traits to be “shift clicked” i.e. linkable in the chat box just like the skills and items.

the roman numerals are placeholders and not a final, finished, polished product.
a real proper traits menu would have full unique identifiable icons as well as detailed traits descriptions along with important numbers. we get neither at launch.

a year later, they added detailed numbers to the traits menu, which should have been included at launch. instead, players must refer to the wiki for actual numbers.

they talk about adding new skills and traits.
they should give all the existing traits icons first before even thinking about adding new traits.

even replacing roman numerals with actual readable words is better. with readable words, i can recognize each trait straight away. no need to mouse over to check the name and description.

okay, maybe asking for icons is too much.
what about an option for their names to be displayed next to the roman numerals?
refer to 2nd attached image.

Agree, seems somewhat lacking polish to have these placeholders still in place.

No, it’s easier to give build this way !
30 (1 5 9) 0 0 10 (2) 30 (1 2 3)
Is easier than 30 ( blablabla blabla blahhh)…

It’s easier to organize your traits as a 1-6, 1-10, and 1-12 if you number them. Some less cumbersome way of viewing and changing traits would be good though.

The Sixteenth.2561:

No, it’s easier to give build this way !
30 (1 5 9) 0 0 10 (2) 30 (1 2 3)
Is easier than 30 ( blablabla blabla blahhh)…

but icons are much easier to remember.

i can’t remember the roman numerals.

make big icons and put small roman numerals at the corner.

If only tex-modding was allowed. Maybe it is, but still.

How about just numbers rather than Roman numerals? No one writes their build in Roman numerals, and it’s easier to process “7” than “VII” .

Roman numerals might look better on the paper texture of the trait hexagons, but in terms of usability…

I agree with the counterarguments, the roman numerals work just as well, are better for organization, and don’t waste artistic assets where they will almost never be seen.

with roman numerals, the traits page feels like in alpha stage, not representing polished final retail product.

so you are saying we are fine with this?

Roman numerals are preferable (for me) over icons, as my aging brain is unlikely to remember icons I don’t see very often and it does make it easier to write up a build.

Standard numbers would also work, but I’ve been able to read Roman numerals since learning them in school at around the age of 7.

It’s one thing to read them, but I wonder how many people have to take a beat to process them. I never remember off-hand what numbers my traits are; if I want to change them, I always have to mouseover the other ones to find the one I’m looking for.

It’s like having an analog clock with no numbers on it. You can easily read it, but would it be faster to read it with numbers? Or if it were a digital clock? Not if you read it a lot, of course, and get used to it, but I’m not sure how many people change their traits frequently enough to memorize all the Roman numerals, especially if they play multiple classes.

I prefer the numerals too – no clutter on the page and easier to refer to. There are far too many traits to be able to remember their icons anyway.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

with roman numerals, the traits page feels like in alpha stage, not representing polished final retail product.

so you are saying we are fine with this?

While it may feel unpolished and alpha to you, it doesn’t feel unpolished to me.

I take this as a good sign the game is doing fine if this is all that we are talking about these days lol.

I prefer the numbers too because it’s easier to remember the tiers of the traits with them. Example 1-6 is tier 1, 7-10 is Tier 2 and lastly is tier 3 with 11 and 12.

For my engi I use a tier 1 and 2 tier 2 skills to cover my 3 choices in 1 of my trait lines. if you remove these numbers it would be a mess to remember which tiers they all belong to.

Redenaz.8631:

It’s one thing to read them, but I wonder how many people have to take a beat to process them. I never remember off-hand what numbers my traits are; if I want to change them, I always have to mouseover the other ones to find the one I’m looking for.

It’s like having an analog clock with no numbers on it. You can easily read it, but would it be faster to read it with numbers? Or if it were a digital clock? Not if you read it a lot, of course, and get used to it, but I’m not sure how many people change their traits frequently enough to memorize all the Roman numerals, especially if they play multiple classes.

Some very good points, but I guess the question is how many people would benefit from numbers vs Roman numerals. Personally, it wouldn’t make a difference as I would still have to mouseover the traits regardless of which option was used as I can never remember them anyway.

i can’t believe you all settle for roman numerals over icons.

icons will be much easier to remember than roman numerals!

It’s more of a problem when it’s in the buffs area from those “allies get +x stat” traits. I know someone is giving me… something, but I have to mouseover it to see. Doesn’t matter much, but it’s a thing.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

i can’t believe you all settle for roman numerals over icons.

icons will be much easier to remember than roman numerals!

Maybe it’s because all of my ingame char’s are named Paultynz to Paulytnz x (all 10 of them) since we can’t use numbers ingame. (Shrugs) blame Anet lol.

Besides like I said they help us to remember which tiers they belong to.

Roman numerals work, but I agree icons would be cooler and much more recognizable.

The Sixteenth.2561:

No, it’s easier to give build this way !
30 (1 5 9) 0 0 10 (2) 30 (1 2 3)
Is easier than 30 ( blablabla blabla blahhh)…

Rarely anyone uses that. It’s usually 30/30/10/0/0 or something like that. There’s always a way of linking to build too.

I like the roman numerals and I find it much easier to remember than an icon.
It doesn’t feel unfinished to me at all.
I actually find the use of icons everywhere these days quite irretating

Icon + roman numeral would be a good idea for this

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

i can’t believe you all settle for roman numerals over icons.

icons will be much easier to remember than roman numerals!

So you would rather have “You want to take squiggly line in arms, purple heart in strength, and the pig face in your 5th line” instead of “Take arms IV, strength III, and _ V”

Player Character.9467:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

i can’t believe you all settle for roman numerals over icons.

icons will be much easier to remember than roman numerals!

So you would rather have “You want to take squiggly line in arms, purple heart in strength, and the pig face in your 5th line” instead of “Take arms IV, strength III, and _ V”

yes. icons > roman numerals

i say the full names of the traits when i share my traits build with others anyway.
roman numerals are just lazy. and confusing.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Player Character.9467:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

i can’t believe you all settle for roman numerals over icons.

icons will be much easier to remember than roman numerals!

So you would rather have “You want to take squiggly line in arms, purple heart in strength, and the pig face in your 5th line” instead of “Take arms IV, strength III, and _ V”

yes. icons > roman numerals

i say the full names of the traits when i share my traits build with others anyway.
roman numerals are just lazy. and confusing.

How the hell is it confusing? It’s fine as it is, we have a lot more other things that need attention.

Roman Numerals confusing and lazy? lol
elegant, concise and universal were the terms I was thinking of

Kaizer.7135:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Player Character.9467:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

i can’t believe you all settle for roman numerals over icons.

icons will be much easier to remember than roman numerals!

So you would rather have “You want to take squiggly line in arms, purple heart in strength, and the pig face in your 5th line” instead of “Take arms IV, strength III, and _ V”

yes. icons > roman numerals

i say the full names of the traits when i share my traits build with others anyway.
roman numerals are just lazy. and confusing.

How the hell is it confusing? It’s fine as it is, we have a lot more other things that need attention.

it is confusing because the roman numerals do not indicate what that trait do.

i have to mouse to see read the name and description.

it is NOT fine.

having a lot more other things that need attention is NOT an acceptable reason.
pretty pathetic lame excuse.

if man power is a problem, organize a competition and the community can participate and contribute.

Morrigan.2809:

Roman Numerals confusing and lazy? lol
elegant, concise and universal were the terms I was thinking of

plain, confusing, unfriendly.

Numbers are better for quick sharing of your trait spread.

You just say the numbers and done.

If they ever had to do this change, please, don’t do it as long as its impossible to store/load/share in chat the builds – like in Gw1, where having 1200 skills with their own name wasn’t a issue due to that.

it’s just a waste of time and resources.
once more important aspects of the game will be polished they could start thinking about things like this.

Roman numerals are fine… It gives no impression it’s in a ‘beta stage.’ And if you find it confusing or annoying, that’s your problem.
With the desperate need for further balance and more traits/skills as promised, more time wastage on icons is the last thing we need. I thought the oct 15 balance patch showed this

imagine you have numbers for all the weapon skills, healing skills and utility skills.

how would you feel?

unfinished unpolished alpha product.

I can’t say that I agree that the Roman numerals give an impression of unpolishedness (although the buff on the buff bar, such as Empower Allies, could use an icon, even if it’s just the icon for the stat it boosts).

In terms of usability and friendliness, it’s going to change from player to player. I find the numerals much preferable personally, since I only use them for recording builds, thus I’d much rather write ‘IV’ than a) describe the icon or b) mouse over to find the trait.

TheDaiBish.9735:

I can’t say that I agree that the Roman numerals give an impression of unpolishedness (although the buff on the buff bar, such as Empower Allies, could use an icon, even if it’s just the icon for the stat it boosts).

In terms of usability and friendliness, it’s going to change from player to player. I find the numerals much preferable personally, since I only use them for recording builds, thus I’d much rather write ‘IV’ than a) describe the icon or b) mouse over to find the trait.

Write? You still write? People still write? Holy crap!

I think I’ve forgotten how to use a pen! LOL

alphabetical names of traits and graphical icons are much, much more user friendly, easier to remember.

insisting that roman numerals is better is just plain backwards.

Vayne.8563:

TheDaiBish.9735:

I can’t say that I agree that the Roman numerals give an impression of unpolishedness (although the buff on the buff bar, such as Empower Allies, could use an icon, even if it’s just the icon for the stat it boosts).

In terms of usability and friendliness, it’s going to change from player to player. I find the numerals much preferable personally, since I only use them for recording builds, thus I’d much rather write ‘IV’ than a) describe the icon or b) mouse over to find the trait.

Write? You still write? People still write? Holy crap!

I think I’ve forgotten how to use a pen! LOL

Pen? Psh, I use a quill and ink :P

Yeah, I tend to write a lot when number-crunching / getting ideas down / drafting code.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

alphabetical names of traits and graphical icons are much, much more user friendly, easier to remember.

insisting that roman numerals is better is just plain backwards.

Like I said, it’s dependent on the person.

You might prefer pictorial representations, I prefer numerical representation.

Don’t get me wrong, I like the art of the skill icons. I just prefer working with numbers, and not abstract.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Vayne.8563:

TheDaiBish.9735:

I can’t say that I agree that the Roman numerals give an impression of unpolishedness (although the buff on the buff bar, such as Empower Allies, could use an icon, even if it’s just the icon for the stat it boosts).

In terms of usability and friendliness, it’s going to change from player to player. I find the numerals much preferable personally, since I only use them for recording builds, thus I’d much rather write ‘IV’ than a) describe the icon or b) mouse over to find the trait.

Write? You still write? People still write? Holy crap!

I think I’ve forgotten how to use a pen! LOL

Pen? Psh, I use a quill and ink :P

Yeah, I tend to write a lot when number-crunching / getting ideas down / drafting code.

Honestly if I ever had to go back to using pen and paper, I’d give up writing.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

alphabetical names of traits and graphical icons are much, much more user friendly, easier to remember.

insisting that roman numerals is better is just plain backwards.

But you are the only one who is insisting here.
You don’t like it fine- most people on this thread don’t mind/ prefer them.
why exactly do you have a problem with numerals?

Morrigan.2809:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

alphabetical names of traits and graphical icons are much, much more user friendly, easier to remember.

insisting that roman numerals is better is just plain backwards.

But you are the only one who is insisting here.
You don’t like it fine- most people on this thread don’t mind/ prefer them.
why exactly do you have a problem with numerals?

i can’t remember them.

have to mouse over to check name and description.

some are still bearable since the location is kinda fixed.

most are just vague and confusing.

with icons there is no need to mouse over since at one glance i will know what icon is what trait etc.

now answer me, how would you feel if all the weapon skills, healing skill, utility skills, elite skill are roman numerals and not icons.

I’ve always had trouble with skill icons. They’re small and I usually can’t even tell what the picture is supposed to be. A lot of skills have similar icons (in every game) so that’s confusing as well.

The roman numerals are easy to remember and instantly recognizable. It’s way easier for my brain to process and assign meaning to “IV” than to “some weird icon that looks like it might a severed hand glowing white and trailing gold dust sparkles”.

I agree with both arguments.

Like OP, I can’t remember them so well. When I need to change my build fast (like in a dungeon), I waste time trying to find the one I need.

Icons would make that easy but as many said, how are you going to describe your build?

IMO, a system like the one used in the original GW would be great for both but I don’t thing that is going to happen.

this belongs in the general discussion forum, not the suggestion forum.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Morrigan.2809:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

alphabetical names of traits and graphical icons are much, much more user friendly, easier to remember.

insisting that roman numerals is better is just plain backwards.

But you are the only one who is insisting here.
You don’t like it fine- most people on this thread don’t mind/ prefer them.
why exactly do you have a problem with numerals?

i can’t remember them.

have to mouse over to check name and description.

some are still bearable since the location is kinda fixed.

most are just vague and confusing.

with icons there is no need to mouse over since at one glance i will know what icon is what trait etc.

now answer me, how would you feel if all the weapon skills, healing skill, utility skills, elite skill are roman numerals and not icons.

But they are not and their is no reason why class skills/weapon skills would have roman numerals.
For traits it makes sense because you choose one from a drop-down menu.
those are not the same thing and they serve a different purpose- no one spends the game looking at their trait bar.

^ no excuse for not using icons.

icons > roman numerals

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

i can’t remember them.

have to mouse over to check name and description.

some are still bearable since the location is kinda fixed.

most are just vague and confusing.

with icons there is no need to mouse over since at one glance i will know what icon is what trait etc.

now answer me, how would you feel if all the weapon skills, healing skill, utility skills, elite skill are roman numerals and not icons.

I can’t remember Traits by their numbers, too. (at least most of the time)
But would this change with icons? No.

Also I don’t think it looks unfinished at all. And there are some advantages over icons as well:

1. You know witch trait is adept, master and grandmaster within seconds
2. It is easy and faster to share by using numbers. If you prefer the names there will be no difference.
3. Symbols are probably not clear enough. And it will be more challenging with more and more traits, that will follow.
4. the traits are in a defined and logical order. I, II, III, … and not “the sword was next to the pig flying above the monkey”
5. Not every one interprets a picture the same way, for example the vase/two faces thing. I don’t want to play pictionary all the time looking at traits.

I think it is fine with those numbers and icons wouldn’t make it easier.

You can’t compare traits with the skill in your skillbar. Yes those would look unfinished, but for traits it is a logical decision to use numbers.

adept, master and grandmaster could be differentiated with different colors or shading or borders etc.

again, icons are easily identified at one glance while numbers are not.

this is fact.

To have the same clean look, the symbols would need to be black and white. Colors would look ugly and look like a beta or Chinese game.
Borders would result in even smaller icons.
And shading wouldn’t be clear enough i think.

I think you see a problem where no one exists.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

icons are easily identified at one glance while numbers are not.

this is fact.

O-O
since when are numbers not easily identifiable at a glance?
that is probably the strangest statement I have heard in quite a while

How about an icon and a decimal number.

Morrigan.2809:

since when are numbers not easily identifiable at a glance?

I think he might have been referring to roman numerals.

…..
Roman numerals, harder to process? Uh? Come on… they’re just a handful of simbols, you associate the symbol with the meaning. How are japanese people supposed to “process” our alphabet, then? You just learn it.

With all the problems in this game, complaining about roman numerals…
… that look stylish as hell, in my modest opinion. They assolve their function just fine.
Why do you want to clutter up the trait panel with unclear and necessarily small icons, enlighten me?

icons are unique, easily identifiable at first glance.

roman numerals, are just roman numerals.
i see them as I, II, III, IV, V … nothing more.
they do not tell me anything more.

icons tell me straight away what that trait does.