Guild Wars 2

Seems to be a theme in games these days, Diablo 3 has(had? haven’t played it in a while) the exact same problems. Give me more numbers, more details, not less!

They built the wiki into the game to work as the “detailed” option you speak of. Just type /wiki <search term> and it will automatically minimize the game and bring up the wiki for you with the more detailed info you seek. That way everyone wins and they don’t have to code a bunch of extra info into the game.

EDIT: That’s not to say that I wouldn’t like to see more detailed tooltips. That’s just to say why they don’t feel they need to spend resources on such things.

totally agree with Zepidel… and GW1 tooltips were always so clear, but it’s one of many good points of GW1 that they left out of GW2

BioFringe.7945:

They built the wiki into the game to work as the “detailed” option you speak of. Just type /wiki <search term> and it will automatically minimize the game and bring up the wiki for you with the more detailed info you seek. That way everyone wins and they don’t have to code a bunch of extra info into the game.

EDIT: That’s not to say that I wouldn’t like to see more detailed tooltips. That’s just to say why they don’t feel they need to spend resources on such things.

The wiki would be a great option if it would contain the data.

Requiring that the users need to find out numbers by observing skill usage, which is further hindered by conditions not listed in the in-game “combat log”, is a poor option.

my favorite things are the tooltips they haven’t bothered updating for months for no reason, really how hard is it to change just the text “10% faster” to “25% faster”?

I can agree here. Things like the warrior’s trait for running faster while wielding a melee weapon? Doesn’t tell you the run speed increase at all. What? I have to go look that up? Why?

Why does the tool tip for an Elementalist’s Signet of Air run speed increase say 25% in one place and 10% on the onscreen buff icon? I’m pretty sure its a 25% increase but there is always the nagging doubt in the back of my mind because of the disparate tool tips.

A game should be describing its mechanics and gameplay to the player in-game instead of requiring the player to alt-tab just to read up on some skill (or even have a separate tab with in-depth descriptions of tools). It breaks immersion and more importantly is really annoying when you can’t find the answer that you need on the wiki.

Not to mention, they also specified numerous times that they want this game to be a successful e-sport. Now I understand that lack of tooltip information greatly handicaps casuals (in fact, all players), this has tremendous ramifications in sPvP. An e-sport revolves around knowing EXACTLY how much damage is being increased, what the internal cooldowns are, what the exact functionality is, interactions with runes/sigils…etc.

If this game has any hope of becoming an e-sport, it should definitely start by going over EVERY single weapon skill, trait, and utility skill…and listing EXACTLY the CORRECT information that needs to be displayed there (notice how I stressed correct). It’s been 7 months since the game has been released and tooltips are still outdated/vague…how much longer are you going to keep us guessing? It’s completely unacceptable. And their original answer of “We want players to explore and discover everything associated with skills/traits” is a disgusting and pathetic excuse for developer laziness. Their statement of “We took everything you loved from Guild Wars 1” is FAR from the truth.

This game expect you to know everything when you start playing it. It does not help you in most things, and if wasn’t the wiki….

A good example the new events, living story, where everybody is always asking where this, how that. We can’t just get there with what the game says to us to do.

Also who doesn’t see the Patch notes doesn’t know the new things even, no information about that in-game only in the site itself. :P

I know one reason for very simple (and frankly vague) has been the need to localize for differing languages. Its not the reason, but with all the different types of grammar and what not, and with the amounts of things all people are working on, triage dictates they’ll be put on the lower end of the importance spectrum.

I do agree that it’s frustrating when neither the tooltip nor the wiki has the information we’d like. I do think some of the tooltip updates that give more detailed information are being used to increase favorability for some traits and builds. For quite a while, I never knew how the guardian traits burn at 25% hp or cause vuln. on blind/immobilize really worked, but with current tool-tips (and possibly patches to fit the tooltip in the first place), they’re much more desirable, even if I don’t ever use them.

Some people will maths to the point of making some builds so obviously and objectively better, that hiding some of the details will help foster the idea that “any” build will work (“any” as in, you’d actually have to try and build poorly, and play against that build’s strengths).

None of this is perfect, no doubt, but eh.

you could just test it.

emikochan.8504:

you could just test it.

This. It’s not that hard to figure out, and there are the forums to answer such questions, sometimes a dev will drop by to help you.

Yea of course you can test it, but if you got lacking tooltips, why bring in tooltips in the first place?

how am I going to test something like +5% damage and if it effects my illusions? This game doesn’t allow 3rd party mods like damage meters (which is kitten . That means I would have to go whack on something for an hour and do TONS of math.

The devs know how it works and its just pure neglect that they don’t include important variables in tooltips.

Heres another example of a terrible mesmer tooltip.

Into the Void: Destroy your temporal, pulling your target into it.

This doesn’t even mention that its an AoE that pulls multiple targets in, and you don’t need anyone targeted. It also leaves out the effective range which is very important. Also saying it pulls your target “into” the void is misleading because it is destroyed beforehand no cripple is applied.

HOW IT SHOULD READ: Destroy your temporal, pulling all enemies in a 600(?) radius to its location.

I agree – more technical details is what I want. but there should be an option for it: default is clutter-free, checkbox to show technical details such as how much damage, recharge time, etc.

Diablo 3 has this. the tooltips default to basic “dash forward and deal extra damage”, but there is a setting that you can have it show actual amounts: “dash forward and deal 4,822 damage, 20 second cooldown”, then you just compare that to the regular attack “swing for 2,411 damage, 1/2 second cooldown”

I have to completely agree here, it drives me nuts to no end not knowing what school of magic something might apply to, or how much does it boost something by, or how much longer does it make a skill, give me some kitten specifics!

My personal favorite are skills that have “hidden” effects.

Take Whirlwind for example – While in whirlwind you evade attacks. Why this isn’t on the tool tip is beyond me.

Or Skills that have “Unlisted Combo Fields” Elixir R comes to mind.

Some people are following Sim City details really close and things aren’t adding up. It reminds me not only of GW but a lot of RPG’s anymore. They don’t share all the nuts and bolts, which leaves me wondering if there is a lot of fudge these days to make it all stick together and work. Not always getting details because they know some autistic minded person will break the numbers down to the core and take them to task. It’s a theory any way.

Well /wiki helps a lot getting more detailed information.

Valento.9852:

Well /wiki helps a lot getting more detailed information.

But we shouldnt be forced to go on the wiki for important game details, like combo fields and evading attacks. That sort of readability should be on the tool tip.

Changing tooltips is a very difficult task. Back off Arenanet and give them some time (two years) ok?

Valento.9852:

Well /wiki helps a lot getting more detailed information.

Right there is some there, but there are plenty of vagues in the game.

On the Enjin App there is an app that shows you what boons and conditions do and allows you to calculate some of them while in game.
http://www.overwolf.com/Appstore/#appId=Greatheart_GW2_Boons
http://www.enjin.com/client
http://www.gw2bnc.com/

How would you fit what Elemental Surge does in a single tooltip? It seems to behave differently for each individual skill.

ThiBash.5634:

How would you fit what Elemental Surge does in a single tooltip? It seems to behave differently for each individual skill.

Show another ‘skill tooltip’ above the arcane skill tooltip, like chain attacks.

If something is just a straight numerical increase, then for god’s sake, just show it as that. It seems the overwhelming fear of the developers against all things numerical struck again, as if our heads exploded when there were more then 3 numbers on the same panel…

Take for example the guardian’s “elusive power” trait. The wording on that is “deal more damage at low endurance.” When I read that, I thought at first that it would progressively increase my damage the lower my endurance bar got, and I quickly discounted it. Only much later did I find out that it actually is “deal 10% more damage if endurance is not full.”
So why not just go with the clear concise description, it’s not longer or more complicated at all, if anything, it’s much easier to understand.

I can understand what the thought process might have been in deciding not to give too many specifics / numbers, since GW2 promises not to be a numbers game. I was actually counting on that, and try to play without thinking about numbers.

What bothers me is that when numbers are given, it’s not always clear how they apply. Take this Engineer tooltip (lvl 29) for example:

[Poison Dart Volley]
Fire a volley of darts that poison foes.
Damage: 40
Poison: 2s (86 damage), -33% Heal Effectiveness
Number of Darts: 5
Range: 900

Is that 40 damage total, or 40 damage / dart? 86 poison damage total over 2 seconds, or each second for 2 seconds?

BTW that’s ^ not a rhetorical question… I’d appreciate an answer

I honestly wish there were no number at all. I know the min/max crowd is crazy about them, and loves them, but to me, it’s the least immersive part of any game. I mean, if you’re thinking about numbers, you’re not in the world.

If I attack a wolf with a sword in real life, a number doesn’t pop out of it. Likewise in many other games, numbers don’t necessarily pop up. Numbers cheapen the entire experience for me.

I kill stuff, or I die. If I die too much, I change my build until I don’t die and still kill stuff. Reducing a game like this to numbers is exactly the opposite of how I’d rather play.

Lots of action/adventure games don’t have numbers at all and people still play them in great numbers.

But I guess I’m probably the exception to all this, so carry on.

Just use the skill a few times jeez. I agree with Vayne.

Still hoping for the option to turn the damage numbers off :/

A lot of skill tooltips are also incorrect in regard to specifying if their triggering is also affecting the player which triggers it. For instance a lot of skills have the “heals allies etc. etc.” description with no mentioning of the caster itself yet the end effect is that the caster is affected too. Way to imprecise.

raptor.1064:

my favorite things are the tooltips they haven’t bothered updating for months for no reason, really how hard is it to change just the text “10% faster” to “25% faster”?

Because if at some point the devs decided to change those numbers, people had hard numbers to compare them to. As it is any change would still be “faster” and “much faster” even if they dropped them to 5% and 12.5% from 10% and 25%.

emikochan.8504:

Just use the skill a few times jeez. I agree with Vayne.

Still hoping for the option to turn the damage numbers off :/

I do like immersion, but uh have you played the main story line? lol… I like this game but its not for its story or RP elements. It’s for the PvP etc… you would expect to find in a MMO. If you are here for the RP and immersion you are in a bad place.

Sadly, GW2 does seem to have a theme of “never expand or explain” anything. The game is great, but it’s clear that in development the game designers fell into the unhappy situation of not giving enough explanation to new players (where does it ever tell you in game that you can use the “/wiki” command?) and not giving enough details to experienced players that want it.

kKagari.6804:

Changing tooltips is a very difficult task.

Ba ha ha ha ha! Oh wait…

bpphantom.8243:

kKagari.6804:

Changing tooltips is a very difficult task.

Ba ha ha ha ha! Oh wait…

Not difficult, just grunt work.

What’s more important to get done today, fix bug or update tooltip text? (but that’s what interns are for)

Vayne.8563:

I honestly wish there were no number at all. I know the min/max crowd is crazy about them, and loves them, but to me, it’s the least immersive part of any game. I mean, if you’re thinking about numbers, you’re not in the world.

If I attack a wolf with a sword in real life, a number doesn’t pop out of it. Likewise in many other games, numbers don’t necessarily pop up. Numbers cheapen the entire experience for me.

I kill stuff, or I die. If I die too much, I change my build until I don’t die and still kill stuff. Reducing a game like this to numbers is exactly the opposite of how I’d rather play.

Lots of action/adventure games don’t have numbers at all and people still play them in great numbers.

But I guess I’m probably the exception to all this, so carry on.

If I attack a wolf with a sword in RL the only # that should pop up is 911 and I should call it, because I’m going to be dying real soon.

Also, said games don’t have WvWvW and SPvP that rely on knowing what things do what. They also tend to not have obscure abilities within abilities, ie: When I hit that guy with Y my next X attack does 2.75% more damage and has an increased 3% chance to crit.

Some extended tutorial to the game would help alot to stop one thing:
- Days ago a guildie of mine, legendary, play since headstart… Just learned for the first time the icon with the arrow near the health globe, it shows how many times can you go down without die, when it’s red next time u go down u are instant kill.

There NEVER was any tooltip for that, game just… wanted us to know that since the first momment we played it. Most of things we must learn by ourselfs, and sometimes we are just wrong, but the game wont help in that aspect.

All games have their Wiki, but this one is where without the Wiki, all players would be running in circles.

Sad for me It’s that I must close the game to open the wiki —’

I absolutely hate having to go to the ‘wiki’ for official game information like this. The wiki is user edited, and I have spotted numerous mistakes in it in the past. I guess these mistakes in the wiki are officially correct??

It is just pure laziness that there is not a true ‘official’ spot for this information. I have to rely on secondhand information that anyone can change on a whim.

TheBlueI.3486:

BioFringe.7945:

They built the wiki into the game to work as the “detailed” option you speak of. Just type /wiki <search term> and it will automatically minimize the game and bring up the wiki for you with the more detailed info you seek. That way everyone wins and they don’t have to code a bunch of extra info into the game.

EDIT: That’s not to say that I wouldn’t like to see more detailed tooltips. That’s just to say why they don’t feel they need to spend resources on such things.

The wiki would be a great option if it would contain the data.

Requiring that the users need to find out numbers by observing skill usage, which is further hindered by conditions not listed in the in-game “combat log”, is a poor option.

Why include important combat information in a game when you can redirect players out of the game to a website to read it instead?

Why fill your wiki with information on the game which, as its creator, you know every last detail about when you can force players to rely on the charity of other players filling out that wiki with their own trial-and-error field research?

Mad Rasputin.7809:

I absolutely hate having to go to the ‘wiki’ for official game information like this. The wiki is user edited, and I have spotted numerous mistakes in it in the past. I guess these mistakes in the wiki are officially correct??

It is just pure laziness that there is not a true ‘official’ spot for this information. I have to rely on secondhand information that anyone can change on a whim.

How dare you question the mathematical capability of a 15 year old with a C in algebra that may or may not be editing the wiki. Shame on you.

I like to think that maybe for once a game wants us to work out some of the details, rather than spoonfeeding – since they can’t introduce any difficulty (thanks kids) in the game they’ve just made theorycraft a game that requires you confirm every forumula.

Maybe I am too old for these games – I remember when sharing puzzle solutions with other players was bannable in games I worked on, now if a puzzle takes longer than the Google search to reveal it cries go out that it is broken…

thisolderhead.5127:

I like to think that maybe for once a game wants us to work out some of the details, rather than spoonfeeding – since they can’t introduce any difficulty (thanks kids) in the game they’ve just made theorycraft a game that requires you confirm every forumula.

Maybe I am too old for these games – I remember when sharing puzzle solutions with other players was bannable in games I worked on, now if a puzzle takes longer than the Google search to reveal it cries go out that it is broken…

I’m probably just as old as you, but I have to disagree with you on this. I don’t think practical, informative tooltips is asking for too much. It’s not and shouldn’t be a “puzzle” to be sorted out. That’s kind of like saying you shouldn’t expect a thorough manual with your new car, but instead you should enjoy finding it all out for yourself by tinkering under the hood.

Because Anet doesn’t know how to be direct look at every interview ever and every big monthly patch ever. The latest one is a great example they don’t release the requirements of guild missions till a day before launch and it is by a 3rd party site.

Ghanto.9784:

thisolderhead.5127:

I like to think that maybe for once a game wants us to work out some of the details, rather than spoonfeeding – since they can’t introduce any difficulty (thanks kids) in the game they’ve just made theorycraft a game that requires you confirm every forumula.

Maybe I am too old for these games – I remember when sharing puzzle solutions with other players was bannable in games I worked on, now if a puzzle takes longer than the Google search to reveal it cries go out that it is broken…

I’m probably just as old as you, but I have to disagree with your analogy here. I don’t think practical, informative tooltips is asking for too much. It’s not and shouldn’t be a “puzzle” to be sorted out. That’s kind of like saying you shouldn’t expect a thorough manual with your new car, but instead you should enjoy finding it all out for yourself by tinkering under the hood.

Yes – I’m saying if you want more information about your new car than the user manual provides you ought to tinker under the hood or in the dash, becuase your example is entirely unsuitable for this case.

If you wish to know the exact proportions of +whatever converted to +whateverelse and the scaling for that as you stack it there should be a trial/error/log examinations – in short you should figure that part out (if you are capable) and not be spoonfed.

Mind you I CAN do what I suggest above – so perhaps capability skews MY point of view at the other end of the scale…

dinominator.9862:

I can understand what the thought process might have been in deciding not to give too many specifics / numbers, since GW2 promises not to be a numbers game. I was actually counting on that, and try to play without thinking about numbers.

What bothers me is that when numbers are given, it’s not always clear how they apply. Take this Engineer tooltip (lvl 29) for example:

[Poison Dart Volley]
Fire a volley of darts that poison foes.
Damage: 40
Poison: 2s (86 damage), -33% Heal Effectiveness
Number of Darts: 5
Range: 900

Is that 40 damage total, or 40 damage / dart? 86 poison damage total over 2 seconds, or each second for 2 seconds?

For that skill, I’m about 90% positive that it means that each dart does the 40 damage, so if you are at point blank range, you’ll do 40 damage five times.
The poison does 86 damage total across the 2 seconds for one dart, so if all 5 darts hit, you get 10 seconds of poison that is SUPPOSED to do eight hundred and sixty damage total, or something like that, at least mathematically that’s the total.

But I am in full agreement, tooltips are pretty friggin useless, especially trait ones, and having to open my browser to check the wiki feels like a waste of time.

Emmet.2943:

Because Anet doesn’t know how to be direct look at every interview ever and every big monthly patch ever. The latest one is a great example they don’t release the requirements of guild missions till a day before launch and it is by a 3rd party site.

I think that’s because they didn’t even work.