Why can't we trade players face-to-face?
The reason you trade ONLY through the TP is because it is the only way to 100% prevent scams. P2P trading doesnt stop scamming, and “mailtrades” certainly have no hope of it either. The “tax” isnt a penalty either, nor is Anet “out to get your money” as some people like to make it seem. That tax is to help control inflation. Think about it. If there wasnt something in place to control inflation (besides consumables which can be made with net gain anyways), an item that costs 10g today, would have cost 100 or 1000g+ if there was no inflation mitigation.
That being said, anet’s said they arent ever going to add, or entertain suggestions of, another trading method. Sorry, but use the system currently in place.
The 15% fee is a penalty, you can not argue otherwise. Either I make less money or the buyer pays more or both.
Inflation still happens whether or not a fee is charged. Have you checked the price of Legendaries at all? The main reason Anet charges a fee is to keep people poor motivating them to spend real money for Gems to exchange for Gold.
Player to Player trades only need a confirm option much like the one that existed in GW1. Mail trades could do exactly the same thing be it over longer periods of time or they could have a set price for the items or the items are returned. The reason this does not exist is to force people to use the TP.
There are many ways to control inflation in the game: Account binding, Soul binding, Currency exchange, Consumables (as you mentioned), Wardrobe Unlocking, the Mystic Forge, Crafting, and I am sure I am missing some things. Any of the previous things can be altered to soak up any excesses or shortages. The act of taking money out of the game as I mentioned is just to keep people poor to motivate them to spend real money…so yes Anet is out to get your money…they are a business after all.
Is never hurts to ask and nothing is set in stone. Programs are some of the most flexible things in existence the rest is will and effort. If Anet felt the lack of this feature was hurting their bottom line it could show up in next weeks patch.
[/quote]
Wow you are cynical. And I just don’t see how the fee is pushing me toward gem at all. I think you have a problem if the reason why you buy gems is because of the TP fee.
Anyway, there is only two ways to keep inflation in check. Limit the source of pure gold or add gold sink. All the methods you talked are all about limiting the source of pure gold. That’s the difference between for exemple Silverwaste, which give almost no gold, but several items instead and Fractal, which give you a lot of direct gold.
The problem with your ideas is that it doesn’t remove any of the gold the game currently give us. If they would remove the TP fee, they would still have to remove gold source or add a new gold sink. And we know how people reacted when they changed the reward of dungeon from direct gold to more valuable material. Dungeon give more reward than ever, but everybody snob them because of the gold nerf.
Thaddeauz [xQCx]- QC GUILD
Anyway, there is only two ways to keep inflation in check. Limit the source of pure gold or add gold sink. All the methods you talked are all about limiting the source of pure gold. That’s the difference between for exemple Silverwaste, which give almost no gold, but several items instead and Fractal, which give you a lot of direct gold.
The problem with your ideas is that it doesn’t remove any of the gold the game currently give us. If they would remove the TP fee, they would still have to remove gold source or add a new gold sink. And we know how people reacted when they changed the reward of dungeon from direct gold to more valuable material. Dungeon give more reward than ever, but everybody snob them because of the gold nerf.
This.
Had a really nice response explaining the differences between gold rewards and gold influx and gold sinks in the GW2 economy, but honestly, this has been discussed so many times (I actually just deleted it and rewrote this part since honestly, why talk to brick walls). There always will be a couple of new “players” who don’t understand basic economics (and some of those have been going wild in this thread).
Suffice to say, even if you might not agree about how arenanet delivers economic change notice, what their aim is, how they go about achieveing their goals, the GW2 economy is quite stable and more or less inflation free to a certain degree.
There is a certain rotation in what goods have more or less value (mostly driven by design decisions, new content or changes in demand) but we have yet to see the spiral of inflation happen as it does in many other MMOs.
The 15% TP tax is a major component of keeping the games economy healthy.
The absolute, number one, definitive reason to discourage face to face trading is to minimise the amount of selling/buying spam in chat. We’ve all seen it in other games, where the wts/wtb messages start being used in chat channels other than the trade channel, because the trade channel is swamped with trades. Then folks start reacting to the unwelcome chat message, thus creating more unwanted chat messages.
On balance, I prefer it as it is now.
Inflation still happens whether or not a fee is charged. Have you checked the price of Legendaries at all?
Yes. Did you? They have been mostly stable (barring some fluctuations near the HoT reveal) for a really long time.
Player to Player trades only need a confirm option much like the one that existed in GW1. Mail trades could do exactly the same thing be it over longer periods of time or they could have a set price for the items or the items are returned. The reason this does not exist is to force people to use the TP.
The reason this doesn’t exist is due to the number of scams that GW1 was just full of. If you want someone to blame for not having similar trade option here, blame the gw1 scammers. And the TP tax has one more important function beyond being a gold sink. It encourages people to sell at reasonable prices (which helps stabilizing those prices).
Besides, let’s be honest. To a vast majority of the players being able to look at tp and immediately know the price range for the item they are selling/want to buy is a boon. This way they won’t be the noob selling Dusk at 50g, or buying Carcharias for 500.
Yes, i do understand that there are people that feel they were skillful traders because they knew how to exploit such noobs, that in the current system do not so well, because they have to contend with real trade barons, but i do not feel sorry for them.
Also, remember, that direct trade system would not let you buy for 15% less and sell without paying 15% tax compared to current prices (let’s not even speak on why people think both of those things at the same time might even be possible). Why? Simple. If you wanted to sell, you’d need to reduce those prices… or spam chat for weeks (or sometimes months) waiting for someone to hear and agree to your offer. On tp, as long as the price is within reasonable limits, and there are no market changes, someone will buy/sell it eventually, even if it might take a lot of time. When fishing for offers/buyers in chat however, you’d need to think more shortterm, and that includes accepting offers that are less than perfect.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Inflation still happens whether or not a fee is charged.
Yes. But you can still maintain it so it doesn’t get out of control.
Have you checked the price of Legendaries at all?
What do legendary prices have to do with inflation? Have you checked what might have influenced the prices other than “inflation” as you claim?
The main reason Anet charges a fee is to keep people poor motivating them to spend real money for Gems to exchange for Gold.
…
The act of taking money out of the game as I mentioned is just to keep people poor to motivate them to spend real money…so yes Anet is out to get your money…they are a business after all.
…
If Anet felt the lack of this feature was hurting their bottom line it could show up in next weeks patch.
Tinfoil hat much?
(edited by Ayrilana.1396)
The main reason Anet charges a fee is to keep people poor
I’m sorry, but that’s way beyond tinfoil territory. Assuming the game has an active playerbase of 100k players, lets do some math.
100,000 players
8 dungeons
3 paths per (avg)
1.5 gold per path
________________
Stopping here, that’s over 3.5 million gold influx per day from dungeons.
From release to HoT release, it’s been 1,151 days. Being generous and saying it takes people 3 months to get to level 80 and all dungeons on farm status, that’s 1,061 days people have been farming dungeons. End result? Total gold in the game JUST FROM DUNGEONS would be just short of 4 billion. That also completely ignores the random trash people vendor, which could be another 3-4 billion gold (only JS has true numbers, and it’d probably take him a month to put everything together), so the liquid gold in the game when HoT released was potentially 8 billion or higher “pre-tax”. With the only sink in the game being waypoints/repairs, that amount would not change by much. With 15% being taken out from every transaction, the real amount would be closer to 60-62% of that. Granted, that ignores being able to buy gems for gold, and gold for gems.
Those who do not want a governing body interfering with their player to player, unregulated free market trade have that as an option. It is already in game.
What they really want is for Anet to act as a economic governing body, enforcing trade rules, only as it benefits them.
a simple solution to making lolspamtradechat stop is to turn it off when you aren’t trying to trade something.
the reason anet won’t put this in is its playerbase has a horrible understanding of this, well one reason at least.
While that’s not my primary issue with F2F trades, it’s funny that you think sellers would restrict themselves to a trade channel (were one added). Never worked in other games, not sure why it would here. Or were you suggesting we turn off map chat as well?
Wow you are cynical. And I just don’t see how the fee is pushing me toward gem at all. I think you have a problem if the reason why you buy gems is because of the TP fee.
No not cynical more like realistic, being idealistic about other peoples motivations is just delusional. You obviously misunderstand my point on the fee. It is a Gold vacuum that sucks Gold out of the economy for everyone. Since making Gold in this game is very difficult if you just play the game it makes a large portion of the player base always broke. Being broke is what motivates people to spend real money for Gold. The TP fee is just one example of how Anet makes this happen.
Anyway, there is only two ways to keep inflation in check. Limit the source of pure gold or add gold sink. All the methods you talked are all about limiting the source of pure gold. That’s the difference between for exemple Silverwaste, which give almost no gold, but several items instead and Fractal, which give you a lot of direct gold.
The problem with your ideas is that it doesn’t remove any of the gold the game currently give us. If they would remove the TP fee, they would still have to remove gold source or add a new gold sink. And we know how people reacted when they changed the reward of dungeon from direct gold to more valuable material. Dungeon give more reward than ever, but everybody snob them because of the gold nerf.
There not being enough gold sinks is completely untrue. If I were to just concentrate solely of one goal, obtaining all the weapon skins in the game, that would require more gold than I will ever make in probably 5 years and this is only one aspect. Just because a player decides to allow their gold to accumulate does not mean there are not an abundance of things to spend it on.
Currently GW2 is suffering from deflation which is just as bad as inflation. People keep claiming that GW2 economy is stable but this is only true if you limit what you are looking at. The only truly effective way to deal with inflation or deflation is to set lower and upper values to all items in the game.
Inflation still happens whether or not a fee is charged.
Yes. But you can still maintain it so it doesn’t get out of control.
The only true way to maintain inflation is to set upper and lower price value on all items preventing it in the first place.
Have you checked the price of Legendaries at all?
What do legendary prices have to do with inflation? Have you checked what might have influenced the prices other than “inflation” as you claim?
They are a sellable item are they not? …And they are extremely expensive so they are just a simple example of what happens with inflation. How long would it take playing the game normally, not grinding specific lucrative areas, to purchase a Legendary for the TP? I have never gotten a Legendary and I have play a couple thousand hours of this game and that shows that this games economy is broken and needs major changes. Comparing this games economy to other games is irrelevant, just because other economies are more broken does not mean this economy is fine.
The main reason Anet charges a fee is to keep people poor motivating them to spend real money for Gems to exchange for Gold.
…
The act of taking money out of the game as I mentioned is just to keep people poor to motivate them to spend real money…so yes Anet is out to get your money…they are a business after all.
…
If Anet felt the lack of this feature was hurting their bottom line it could show up in next weeks patch.
Tinfoil hat much?
Cute irrelevant response, though you should be careful with such comments. I have been infracted for much less. You can not just dismiss all my points with a comment predicated on paranoia. Anet is a business they are producing this game to make a profit. This is Business 101 stuff, tinfoil hats are not needed. The purpose of these forums is to point out useful issue many of which Anet is not inclined to fix because they are self beneficial. Trolling the forums just to blindly stick up for Anet is self defeating. You will get less than nothing out of it. It will keep your gaming experience from getting better as fast as it otherwise would if you make constructive well intentioned arguments for improvement.
Inflation still happens whether or not a fee is charged. Have you checked the price of Legendaries at all?
Yes. Did you? They have been mostly stable (barring some fluctuations near the HoT reveal) for a really long time.
I have been watching the prices of Legendaries since Beta and they have drastically increased in price since then. Just because a price stabilizes does not mean it is not inflated. When a small minority of people control a specific market and they choose to keep within a certain high price range does not mean it is not inflated.
Player to Player trades only need a confirm option much like the one that existed in GW1. Mail trades could do exactly the same thing be it over longer periods of time or they could have a set price for the items or the items are returned. The reason this does not exist is to force people to use the TP.
The reason this doesn’t exist is due to the number of scams that GW1 was just full of. If you want someone to blame for not having similar trade option here, blame the gw1 scammers. And the TP tax has one more important function beyond being a gold sink. It encourages people to sell at reasonable prices (which helps stabilizing those prices).
No. Anet did not do this because players were getting scammed they did it because they were not making all of the profit the gold sellers were making. This is a profit driven restriction not a compassionate player feature. The tax is purely to motivate Gem sales. The tax creates the issue of having to leave items on the TP forever otherwise you take a 5% loss which is usually just about all of your profit. It has almost no effect on keeping prices reasonable just look at all the items listed above 1000 Gold.
Besides, let’s be honest. To a vast majority of the players being able to look at tp and immediately know the price range for the item they are selling/want to buy is a boon. This way they won’t be the noob selling Dusk at 50g, or buying Carcharias for 500.
I never mentioned removal of the TP but as far as your example goes the TP lacks vital information in order to make such determinations. I have listed items for the lowest price and they have taken months to sell. Just because it show a price range does not mean the item is actually selling. You would have to have rate of sale indicators and history for the TP to be that useful.
Dusk may sell for more than Carcharias but it does not actually have a higher intrinsic value in GW2. They are both Legendaries and they are both worth the same number of achievement points. What the difference in value really shows is a flawed drop rate.
Yes, i do understand that there are people that feel they were skillful traders because they knew how to exploit such noobs, that in the current system do not so well, because they have to contend with real trade barons, but i do not feel sorry for them.
Also, remember, that direct trade system would not let you buy for 15% less and sell without paying 15% tax compared to current prices (let’s not even speak on why people think both of those things at the same time might even be possible). Why? Simple. If you wanted to sell, you’d need to reduce those prices… or spam chat for weeks (or sometimes months) waiting for someone to hear and agree to your offer. On tp, as long as the price is within reasonable limits, and there are no market changes, someone will buy/sell it eventually, even if it might take a lot of time. When fishing for offers/buyers in chat however, you’d need to think more shortterm, and that includes accepting offers that are less than perfect.
The arguement from me is not for specifically avoiding the 15% tax or getting more profit. It is a very simple thing for Anet to implement and they way it stands now irresponsibly puts people at great risk of theft. All I want is a confirmation mechanism. I am not concerned at all with people price gouging others in P2P trade. If you are selling or buying you must do your do diligence to insurance you are getting a fair deal and if you do not then that is your problem.
The main reason Anet charges a fee is to keep people poor
I’m sorry, but that’s way beyond tinfoil territory. Assuming the game has an active playerbase of 100k players, lets do some math.
100,000 players
8 dungeons
3 paths per (avg)
1.5 gold per path
________________
Stopping here, that’s over 3.5 million gold influx per day from dungeons.From release to HoT release, it’s been 1,151 days. Being generous and saying it takes people 3 months to get to level 80 and all dungeons on farm status, that’s 1,061 days people have been farming dungeons. End result? Total gold in the game JUST FROM DUNGEONS would be just short of 4 billion. That also completely ignores the random trash people vendor, which could be another 3-4 billion gold (only JS has true numbers, and it’d probably take him a month to put everything together), so the liquid gold in the game when HoT released was potentially 8 billion or higher “pre-tax”. With the only sink in the game being waypoints/repairs, that amount would not change by much. With 15% being taken out from every transaction, the real amount would be closer to 60-62% of that. Granted, that ignores being able to buy gems for gold, and gold for gems.
The major obvious flaw with this example is that it assumes all players run dungeons. This is so far off its not even funny. Talk about grindy, doing the same thing over and over. How long would the player base stay at 100k if that was the case. You can not cherry pick a specific lucrative activity to talk in general about the overall economy. Plus I should be able to play in a way that I enjoy and accomplish all the game has to offer.
Also 24 dungeon runs per day? Does this person get to eat, sleep, and go to the bathroom? Can they have a job or go to school? This is completely unrealistic.
On this very topic in another post I replied listing a laundry list of items to spend gold on. The gold sinks you list do not even scratch the surface.
I feel that you are confusing yourself with adding up all the gold in the total economy of all players activities. Just do the math of only 1 player and if it does not work for them then there is a fundamental economic issue. Just imagine how much gold a person would need in order to purchase every item the cash has to offer and lets not forget that there is a fee there also which seems to exceed 15% in certain transactions. Even if the person ran those dungeons as you mention they would not be even close to acquiring just the cash shop items in the game not to mention everything else.
(edited by Cinnamon Goddess.3869)
I have been watching the prices of Legendaries since Beta and they have drastically increased in price since then. Just because a price stabilizes does not mean it is not inflated. When a small minority of people control a specific market and they choose to keep within a certain high price range does not mean it is not inflated.
Wrong. The price increases are not only due to a small majority of players controlling a market. It’s due to balance changes, players not knowing how much value precursors actually have/had at launch and inflation. The same inflation being held in check by the TP tax. Please inform yourself before spouting nonsense. (let’s look at Twilight, probably one of the most traded legendary items ingame https://www.gw2tp.com/item/30704-twilight?full=1 )
No. Anet did not do this because players were getting scammed they did it because they were not making all of the profit the gold sellers were making. This is a profit driven restriction not a compassionate player feature. The tax is purely to motivate Gem sales. The tax creates the issue of having to leave items on the TP forever otherwise you take a 5% loss which is usually just about all of your profit. It has almost no effect on keeping prices reasonable just look at all the items listed above 1000 Gold.
The TP tax has no bearing on gem sales. Seriously this alone shows you have 0 understanding of how this games economy works, or economy in general.
The massive nerf to liquid gold from dungeons has had a way bigger impact on gem sales/prices than any TP tax ever had.
The TP tax though reduces speculation on the TP since, as you mentioned, putting up overpriced items will cost you a fee. Thus the 5% listing fee discourages mispricing and overspeculation.
You are wrong again.
I never mentioned removal of the TP but as far as your example goes the TP lacks vital information in order to make such determinations. I have listed items for the lowest price and they have taken months to sell. Just because it show a price range does not mean the item is actually selling. You would have to have rate of sale indicators and history for the TP to be that useful.
The TP provides the necessary amount of information for a random user to make a decision. For traders and others, there are enough websites which will provide the additional information. Overabundance of information for a normal user is a thing and does not need to be for normal users.
Dusk may sell for more than Carcharias but it does not actually have a higher intrinsic value in GW2. They are both Legendaries and they are both worth the same number of achievement points. What the difference in value really shows is a flawed drop rate.
What the difference shows is a different supply and demand from the player base. Are you for real? Please stop, you are making any semi-sane person’s heads hurt.
The arguement from me is not for specifically avoiding the 15% tax or getting more profit. It is a very simple thing for Anet to implement and they way it stands now irresponsibly puts people at great risk of theft. All I want is a confirmation mechanism. I am not concerned at all with people price gouging others in P2P trade. If you are selling or buying you must do your do diligence to insurance you are getting a fair deal and if you do not then that is your problem.
Or, they could just not bother with opening the floodgates for gray and back markets, keep their perfectly working inflation counter mechanism via TP and save themselves a lot of unneeded hassle.
(edited by Cyninja.2954)
The major obvious flaw with this example is that it assumes all players run dungeons. This is so far off its not even funny. Talk about grindy, doing the same thing over and over. How long would the player base stay at 100k if that was the case. You can not cherry pick a specific lucrative activity to talk in general about the overall economy. Plus I should be able to play in a way that I enjoy and accomplish all the game has to offer.
You must have missed the waves of anger over the dungeon change. The 100k was an example and accounts for more than enough people on average.
Putting of dungeon running as “no one did it” is one of the weakest arguments I’ve heard in a long time, especially with the still ongoing demands from players arenanet reintroduce the gold rewards. You are most definitely not actively playing this game at the moment or keeping track of what has been going on since HoT.
The entire deflation we are seeing now is in part due to the reduced liquid gold from dungeons.
On this very topic in another post I replied listing a laundry list of items to spend gold on. The gold sinks you list do not even scratch the surface.
So your solution for gold sinks being to low is removing or circumventing one of the biggest ones in the game? Okay, thanks was nice having this dialog. Please keep talking to that wall you very sane person.
On that notion, I’d go as far as to say, the TP is the BIGGEST goldsink in this game, by far. The sheer amount of transactions daily remove gold in a dimension no amount of gemstore or gold-gem conversion (funny enough, the tax here also works as a gold sink) could ever come close to. If I’d have to list gold and items sinks by value amount subjectively i’d probably go with (highest to weakest):
- TP
- Mystic forge
- gold-gem exchange
- everything else
(edited by Cyninja.2954)
I have been watching the prices of Legendaries since Beta and they have drastically increased in price since then.
Since beta, yes, but if you were really looking at them, and not just trying to validate your point of view, you’d immediately notice, that they are generally stable for at least 2 years now. And that there were times legendary/precursor prices were actually higher than now.
Just because a price stabilizes does not mean it is not inflated.
Oh, please…
When a small minority of people control a specific market and they choose to keep within a certain high price range does not mean it is not inflated.
You brought up prices of legendaries as a proof of inflation, not me. Though i start to suspect you’re using some really nonstandard “definition” of inflation.
(not going to address the “market contolling small minority” theory, as it’s really not even worth it).
No. Anet did not do this because players were getting scammed they did it because they were not making all of the profit the gold sellers were making. This is a profit driven restriction not a compassionate player feature. The tax is purely to motivate Gem sales.
If you could expand on it a bit, because at the moment i really can’t see the cause-effect link here.
The tax creates the issue of having to leave items on the TP forever otherwise you take a 5% loss which is usually just about all of your profit.
No, it creates the issue of having to think before setting the price, in order to be able to sell it.
It has almost no effect on keeping prices reasonable just look at all the items listed above 1000 Gold.
“Reasonable” as “prices at which the item is likely to sell”, not “prices that Cinnamon Goddess find reasonable”. yes, i too think that lot of items are outrageously priced, but since they are selling i have to suspect, that those prices are reasonable to at least some people.
Dusk may sell for more than Carcharias but it does not actually have a higher intrinsic value in GW2. They are both Legendaries and they are both worth the same number of achievement points. What the difference in value really shows is a flawed drop rate.
…“flawed drop rate”? Seriously?
No, it is not a result of drop rates (even if Dusk actually does have a different drop rate from precursors for all other weapon types, due to existence of Dawn). The real difference comes from demand for them being not the same. One is a greatsword, so a highly desired weapon for many classes and builds, while the other is usable only in underwater content.
The arguement from me is not for specifically avoiding the 15% tax or getting more profit.
Considering that’s the main point of difference between TP and direct trade, if it’s not important to you, why press for change?
It is a very simple thing for Anet to implement and they way it stands now irresponsibly puts people at great risk of theft.
On the contrary, TP is way, way safer in that regard. Also, things that seem simple usually aren’t. Any longer experience with GW1 would have taught you that the system you ask for is very far from simple, or safe.
All I want is a confirmation mechanism.
Why? What exactly direct trade system gives you that TP can’t, if you’re not after abolishing trade tax?
I am not concerned at all with people price gouging others in P2P trade.
You may not be concerned, but I definitely am.
If you are selling or buying you must do your do diligence to insurance you are getting a fair deal and if you do not then that is your problem.
Yes, if i would get scammed, it would definitely be my problem. Anet’s too, as i’d likely file a ticket. So, again, why would i want anything like that to happen? Why would Anet?
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Inflation still happens whether or not a fee is charged.
Yes. But you can still maintain it so it doesn’t get out of control.
The only true way to maintain inflation is to set upper and lower price value on all items preventing it in the first place.
Have you checked the price of Legendaries at all?
What do legendary prices have to do with inflation? Have you checked what might have influenced the prices other than “inflation” as you claim?
They are a sellable item are they not? …And they are extremely expensive so they are just a simple example of what happens with inflation. How long would it take playing the game normally, not grinding specific lucrative areas, to purchase a Legendary for the TP? I have never gotten a Legendary and I have play a couple thousand hours of this game and that shows that this games economy is broken and needs major changes. Comparing this games economy to other games is irrelevant, just because other economies are more broken does not mean this economy is fine.
The main reason Anet charges a fee is to keep people poor motivating them to spend real money for Gems to exchange for Gold.
…
The act of taking money out of the game as I mentioned is just to keep people poor to motivate them to spend real money…so yes Anet is out to get your money…they are a business after all.
…
If Anet felt the lack of this feature was hurting their bottom line it could show up in next weeks patch.
Tinfoil hat much?
Cute irrelevant response, though you should be careful with such comments. I have been infracted for much less. You can not just dismiss all my points with a comment predicated on paranoia. Anet is a business they are producing this game to make a profit. This is Business 101 stuff, tinfoil hats are not needed. The purpose of these forums is to point out useful issue many of which Anet is not inclined to fix because they are self beneficial. Trolling the forums just to blindly stick up for Anet is self defeating. You will get less than nothing out of it. It will keep your gaming experience from getting better as fast as it otherwise would if you make constructive well intentioned arguments for improvement.
I suggest you research what inflation actually is and how it is measured. Putting both a price floor and ceiling is a bad idea.
Considering that you still claim inflation on legendaries, shows that you have not even bothered to examine prices across time. Had you done so, you would have seen that they have been relatively stable. You also do not measure inflation using legendary weapons as an index.
Whether you play 1K hours or 10K doesn’t matter. You don’t earn a legendary by hours played. It’s based on what you do in the game in regards to materials and gold earned versus what you us and spent. These are not weapons you get simply by playing X amount of hours.
Infracted for saying tinfoil hat? Doubtful. It’s another way of saying that what you’re claiming is baseless unless of course you can prove it. It’s really no different than many of the other conspiracy theories.
Why do I have to go through the trade center? This is literally the only MMORPG I recall that has this anti-social system as obligatory.
Why not implement a trading system? It would take no time at all and we wouldn’t get feed by the trading post market. I could sell high priced goods without a huge penalty or risking it with the mail system.
Whatever made you think that you wouldn’t get taxed on any gold moving through this system? All they would need to do is to have the interface remove the 15% gold when the confirmation is accepted. Even if the people trade by barter instead, eventually they’re going to want gold and either the items or the salvage from the items are going to go through the trading post, and get taxed.
If barter was a big thing, they could set it up so that items moving through the interface have their current prices on the trading post checked, and gold removed from the player’s bank for the 15% tax. If you don’t have enough gold in your bank then the confirmation button would be grayed out.
Just a thought. There’s no reason to think that the tax will only be 15% for this type of trade. They could easily make it higher by taxing both sides, instead of only one side like the trading post does now, as a way to allow this sort of trade while at the same time discouraging it. (And no, I’m not talking about a 30% total tax. They could do 15% on the seller’s side and 1 or 2% on the buyer’s side to allow, yet discourage).
Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.
ANet may give it to you.
(edited by Just a flesh wound.3589)
How the hell do you get scammed in a trade where you have to confirm?
Pretty easily in GW1, where they had the ability. There were several means. Spend some time and research it.
I’d hate them adding face to face trading in GW2.
The trading post is just fine. Can still be used to purchase and sell for profit.
Sadly, with face-face trading comes scamming. Common methods would be to scam newbies who does not have a guide on hand what certain items may be worth.
Face-Face trading also brings item (with similar avatar/substantially less in price) flipping. If you think someone cannot flip you after an accept, then try 10 years in a MMO with face-face trading. Some people are almost majestic in the art of flipping items on final trade.
Face-Face trade is an open invite for bots. Face-Face grant bots a personalized market. They can now sell their product to a specific person who paid for such item via a website. Sadly, you end up having lots of account holders who try to buy from these sites attacked by means of keyloggers creating a security nightmare to Anet.
With bots come keyloggers, meaning bots use legit players stolen credit cards to pay for their bots scrutinizing Anet’s ability to log gem purchases. Also imagine all the bots buying gems with stolen credit card information. Banks would ban/restrict Anet access to credit card deductions.
With bots comes the crash of in game economy.
Now as you can see, too many negatives for the sake of you or anyone saving a few extra coin going via the trading post. The trading post is there for a very good reason.
I’d hate them adding face to face trading in GW2.
The trading post is just fine. Can still be used to purchase and sell for profit.
Sadly, with face-face trading comes scamming. Common methods would be to scam newbies who does not have a guide on hand what certain items may be worth.
Face-Face trading also brings item (with similar avatar/substantially less in price) flipping. If you think someone cannot flip you after an accept, then try 10 years in a MMO with face-face trading. Some people are almost majestic in the art of flipping items on final trade.
Face-Face trade is an open invite for bots. Face-Face grant bots a personalized market. They can now sell their product to a specific person who paid for such item via a website. Sadly, you end up having lots of account holders who try to buy from these sites attacked by means of keyloggers creating a security nightmare to Anet.
With bots come keyloggers, meaning bots use legit players stolen credit cards to pay for their bots scrutinizing Anet’s ability to log gem purchases. Also imagine all the bots buying gems with stolen credit card information. Banks would ban/restrict Anet access to credit card deductions.
With bots comes the crash of in game economy.
Now as you can see, too many negatives for the sake of you or anyone saving a few extra coin going via the trading post. The trading post is there for a very good reason.
Bots already exist in this game and have since inception. The existence of bots does not equal key loggers. How would trading with a bot make it anymore likely to get hacked? Bot related trades already happen in this game as is adding a confirmation mechanism would only add to security for players. As far as switching goes that is easy just notify user that item was switch or require the entire trade to start over if item has been switched. Scamming is easier now if a player trades through mail, they never have to reply.
Trading post has deflated significantly lately it is now much harder to make profit in it.
Just because a price stabilizes does not mean it is not inflated.
Oh, please…
That is not a response.
Though i start to suspect you’re using some really nonstandard “definition” of inflation.
That is correct because I can think for myself and I do not blindly except flawed logic. The U.S. has been suffering economically for a while now due to traditional economic perspective. Inflation should define the measure that something has been overpriced beyond cost of production plus a modest profit (50% or less).
No. Anet did not do this because players were getting scammed they did it because they were not making all of the profit the gold sellers were making. This is a profit driven restriction not a compassionate player feature. The tax is purely to motivate Gem sales.
If you could expand on it a bit, because at the moment i really can’t see the cause-effect link here.
Expand in what way? In GW1 there was rampant gold/ecto selling and Anet was not getting any of that money. There trade limited system is their attempt to funnel all of that possible future revenue to them rather than the gold sellers.
The tax creates the issue of having to leave items on the TP forever otherwise you take a 5% loss which is usually just about all of your profit.
No, it creates the issue of having to think before setting the price, in order to be able to sell it.
No, it takes very little mental effort to sell at a profit. You can not just set your own price unless the item is extremely rare. The average person has to deal with a very small profit window and if the price is moving like it has been then your items become buried unless you are willing to take the 5% loss.
It has almost no effect on keeping prices reasonable just look at all the items listed above 1000 Gold.
“Reasonable” as “prices at which the item is likely to sell”, not “prices that Cinnamon Goddess find reasonable”. yes, i too think that lot of items are outrageously priced, but since they are selling i have to suspect, that those prices are reasonable to at least some people.
I am a very reasonable person but you are contradicting yourself here. Anet sets effort vs compensation in this game and therefore is responsible for what the definition of reasonable is. How long should a player farm for a specific item? If I have to spend too much time doing something I dislike in the game in order to progress at what point to I quite because my overall experience with it is painful.
Dusk may sell for more than Carcharias but it does not actually have a higher intrinsic value in GW2. They are both Legendaries and they are both worth the same number of achievement points. What the difference in value really shows is a flawed drop rate.
…“flawed drop rate”? Seriously?
Seriously! As you practically pointed out a greatsword is a far more useful weapon for various reasons. This means there is a higher need for them and that dictates the need for a higher drop rate otherwise players gaming experiences suffer. This is a balance issue which shows in the TP price. If Anet ignores this then it looks bad on them.
It is a very simple thing for Anet to implement and they way it stands now irresponsibly puts people at great risk of theft.
On the contrary, TP is way, way safer in that regard. Also, things that seem simple usually aren’t. Any longer experience with GW1 would have taught you that the system you ask for is very far from simple, or safe.
Commenting on the TP here is just a deflection. I am talking about the mail/p2p trade mechanism and it IS a simple fix. It functioned adequately in GW1 but there is no reason not to do better now.
If you are selling or buying you must do your do diligence to insurance you are getting a fair deal and if you do not then that is your problem.
Yes, if i would get scammed, it would definitely be my problem. Anet’s too, as i’d likely file a ticket. So, again, why would i want anything like that to happen? Why would Anet?
You can not file a ticket for something like this. If you fail to confirm properly than that is your fault and you should not make that mistake next time. Anet will not fix your trade for you nor should they.
Inflation still happens whether or not a fee is charged.
Yes. But you can still maintain it so it doesn’t get out of control.
The only true way to maintain inflation is to set upper and lower price value on all items preventing it in the first place.
Have you checked the price of Legendaries at all?
What do legendary prices have to do with inflation? Have you checked what might have influenced the prices other than “inflation” as you claim?
They are a sellable item are they not? …And they are extremely expensive so they are just a simple example of what happens with inflation. How long would it take playing the game normally, not grinding specific lucrative areas, to purchase a Legendary for the TP? I have never gotten a Legendary and I have play a couple thousand hours of this game and that shows that this games economy is broken and needs major changes. Comparing this games economy to other games is irrelevant, just because other economies are more broken does not mean this economy is fine.
The main reason Anet charges a fee is to keep people poor motivating them to spend real money for Gems to exchange for Gold.
…
The act of taking money out of the game as I mentioned is just to keep people poor to motivate them to spend real money…so yes Anet is out to get your money…they are a business after all.
…
If Anet felt the lack of this feature was hurting their bottom line it could show up in next weeks patch.
Tinfoil hat much?
Cute irrelevant response, though you should be careful with such comments. I have been infracted for much less. You can not just dismiss all my points with a comment predicated on paranoia. Anet is a business they are producing this game to make a profit. This is Business 101 stuff, tinfoil hats are not needed. The purpose of these forums is to point out useful issue many of which Anet is not inclined to fix because they are self beneficial. Trolling the forums just to blindly stick up for Anet is self defeating. You will get less than nothing out of it. It will keep your gaming experience from getting better as fast as it otherwise would if you make constructive well intentioned arguments for improvement.
I suggest you research what inflation actually is and how it is measured. Putting both a price floor and ceiling is a bad idea.
Considering that you still claim inflation on legendaries, shows that you have not even bothered to examine prices across time. Had you done so, you would have seen that they have been relatively stable. You also do not measure inflation using legendary weapons as an index.
Whether you play 1K hours or 10K doesn’t matter. You don’t earn a legendary by hours played. It’s based on what you do in the game in regards to materials and gold earned versus what you us and spent. These are not weapons you get simply by playing X amount of hours.
Infracted for saying tinfoil hat? Doubtful. It’s another way of saying that what you’re claiming is baseless unless of course you can prove it. It’s really no different than many of the other conspiracy theories.
A price floor and ceiling is a great idea and should always be employed in all economies including real world economies. The reason many economies are manic depressive has everything to do with the lack of limits. This is a game and so it should try testing better economic policies to see how they go for the good of the real world.
Legendaries was a quick example you are making too much of it. Indexing is a lazy broad brushed approach that has no hope of truly fixing all problems. I have watched the prices over time and price stability does not disprove inflation. I explain more on this in a previous post.
You are falsely misrepresenting my position of playtime. It takes a relatively small amount of time to play through the story the reward to which should have been a Legendary. Compensation in the game should be structured so that a person actively playing will always be working toward items of progress. The broken part with Legendaries was always the RNG aspect to it, the Precursor. Anet knows this was a mistake and their concession on this was in HOT with Legendary crafting. If I had gotten any of the Precursors while playing I could have easily of gotten a Legendary but I refuse to gamble in a game and so I do not have one. I will also not support exorbitant prices in the TP related the artificial scarcity of RNG.
Your Tinfoil Hat reference was sarcastic and demeaning and that is why I point out Anets infraction policy. Ignore it at your own peril it does not bother me.
“A price floor and ceiling is a great idea and should always be employed in all economies including real world economies.”
A price floor and ceiling should only be implemented in real-world economies. Games have no real scarcity.
“A price floor and ceiling is a great idea and should always be employed in all economies including real world economies.”
A price floor and ceiling should only be implemented in real-world economies. Games have no real scarcity.
Maybe I’m mistaken, but isn’t price ceilings what the communist counties tried to do? They controlled the prices of all items and kept the prices artificially below demand, and you can see how well that worked out for them.
Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.
ANet may give it to you.
~snip~
Have you ever studied economics?
~snip~
Have you ever studied economics?
Not likely considering they’re using the equivalent to a $500k+ Lambo as an inflation benchmark.