Guild Wars 2

You can target specific mobs for T6 mats. 80 skelks/skales drop t6 blood, 80 moa’s drop t6 claws, etc

Yeah, the drop rate is abyssmal (A side affect of 100% PRNG drop rates, but that’s a different bag of worms), but if you dedicate yourself to farming a specific mob on a map you can still get a decent stockpile of T6 in a few hours. It just happens to be mind-numbingly boring

rapthorne.7345:

You can target specific mobs for T6 mats. 80 skelks/skales drop t6 blood, 80 moa’s drop t6 claws, etc

Skelks and Arctodus are dropping Blood, Claws and Fangs btw.

Prototypemind.4026:

When playing content to get items to turn into gold to get other items becomes the means to get by, the fun of running that content eventually goes out the window.

If your played that content just to get loot, you didnt run it for the fun in the first place.

The one thing I always found peculiar was that you can only make cloth by breaking down existing cloth. In some paradoxical twist, cloth can only formed from the scraps of yesterdays outfits which means that somewhere down the timeline everyone is going to be wearing fig leaves due to the diminishing returns of salvages.

I always thought it would have made more sense for threads to be harvestable, like cotton from cotton plants or linen from flax. Gossamer is the odd ball, but I think they could be creative there.

Still, that’s probably going to be the status quo for some time so I guess we’ll have to make do.

Beldin.5498:

rapthorne.7345:

You can target specific mobs for T6 mats. 80 skelks/skales drop t6 blood, 80 moa’s drop t6 claws, etc

Skelks and Arctodus are dropping Blood, Claws and Fangs btw.

Shhhhh!!!

I do also wish the drop rates were a little better. I grew up playing Korean MMOs so mindless grind doesn’t bother me; sometimes I actually crave that repetitive action. But I can also see why DR is in place and the T6 mats aren’t quick to drop.

I just wish things like Fine Infusions didn’t cost 250/100 of a given resource. Like, geez.

Wanze.8410:

Prototypemind.4026:

When playing content to get items to turn into gold to get other items becomes the means to get by, the fun of running that content eventually goes out the window.

If your played that content just to get loot, you didnt run it for the fun in the first place.

It depends on what it is. Currently the situation in this case is true, because in GW2 that content is following a train around the SW2 or plowing down mobs in an area basically. In many other games you do have to take down mobs, but you also have to kill certain bosses. It gives a focus for that resource hunt, and I enjoy it thoroughly. Don’t be one of those forum rangers who tries to tell others what a valid means of enjoyment in a game is. Content can have a purpose beyond killing mobs and bosses just for the fight’s sake every single time.

It only takes a few players out of thousands to all decide, “hey I want to farm insert mob for t6 mats”, at the same time to kitten a farming spot.

Garth Thurgen.1380:

Lambent.6375:

I got it, I just took it that the OP was one of those individuals that like farming/gatherings the materials to make an item on their own for the feel of it, and Bloodstealer’s easywin comment just made me think he was saying OP just wanted things handed to him.

That’s basically what he’s saying. aophts is wanting things to be easier for the rarer items. All rarer items, not just the ones that actually have a problem (easy to tell due to his complaint about T6 materials as opposed to, say, Silver Doubloons or Giant Eyes). How they are obtained in all games is the exact same: either by farming the item, crafting the item, or by buying the item (when applicable for obvious reasons). However, the items in question have to be rarer than the vendor-trash loot in order to have them still be valuable (which is why the vendor-trash loot is just that). This leads to Bloodstealer’s point: that all aophts really wants is for things to be easy, so that he can just ignore the fact that there’s a market at all and play by himself. There are no MMOs out there that make it as easy as GW2 for basically anything but the Legendary Weapon level equivalents (which, even then, aren’t actually in most other MMOs due to the fact that they’re the same as a considerably easier to obtain alternative) and the very select few odd-ball things (dungeon specific drops, bugged quest drops, and Giant Eyes leading the list). However, even the rarest stuffs in GW2 tend to not be as rare as a real grind-fest MMO, of which they’d just be barely in parity with.

In this case, using the T6 example given from the opening post, what exactly is there that you couldn’t reasonably farm? Outside of making every single item in the game, which isn’t exactly supposed to be a reasonable goal for everything but the most hardcore, there just isn’t any one specific item that requires enough T6 materials that it would take a completely unheard of amount of time in MMO terms (though, most of them would be pretty unheard of in normal RPG terms). Outside of all of the ones that require the very clearly problematic parts, ones that ANet has even stated they plan on doing something about in the expansion, you’re not looking at more than a week of heavy grinding. Which is absolutely pathetic in comparison to the months and months it takes for a similarly “hardcore item” from any other MMO in a similar vein.

This person gets it.

Essence Snow.3194:

Garth Thurgen.1380:

Lambent.6375:

I got it, I just took it that the OP was one of those individuals that like farming/gatherings the materials to make an item on their own for the feel of it, and Bloodstealer’s easywin comment just made me think he was saying OP just wanted things handed to him.

That’s basically what he’s saying. aophts is wanting things to be easier for the rarer items. All rarer items, not just the ones that actually have a problem (easy to tell due to his complaint about T6 materials as opposed to, say, Silver Doubloons or Giant Eyes). How they are obtained in all games is the exact same: either by farming the item, crafting the item, or by buying the item (when applicable for obvious reasons). However, the items in question have to be rarer than the vendor-trash loot in order to have them still be valuable (which is why the vendor-trash loot is just that). This leads to Bloodstealer’s point: that all aophts really wants is for things to be easy, so that he can just ignore the fact that there’s a market at all and play by himself. There are no MMOs out there that make it as easy as GW2 for basically anything but the Legendary Weapon level equivalents (which, even then, aren’t actually in most other MMOs due to the fact that they’re the same as a considerably easier to obtain alternative) and the very select few odd-ball things (dungeon specific drops, bugged quest drops, and Giant Eyes leading the list). However, even the rarest stuffs in GW2 tend to not be as rare as a real grind-fest MMO, of which they’d just be barely in parity with.

In this case, using the T6 example given from the opening post, what exactly is there that you couldn’t reasonably farm? Outside of making every single item in the game, which isn’t exactly supposed to be a reasonable goal for everything but the most hardcore, there just isn’t any one specific item that requires enough T6 materials that it would take a completely unheard of amount of time in MMO terms (though, most of them would be pretty unheard of in normal RPG terms). Outside of all of the ones that require the very clearly problematic parts, ones that ANet has even stated they plan on doing something about in the expansion, you’re not looking at more than a week of heavy grinding. Which is absolutely pathetic in comparison to the months and months it takes for a similarly “hardcore item” from any other MMO in a similar vein.

I disagree. Have you ever tried to directly farm t6 mats? (directly, not indirectly) It’s simply not realistic in this game. You farm for loot in general here and those mats happen to be a byproduct of that. If you specifically target a specific item in this game to farm you are in for a rude awakening.

The acquisition methods of this game simply are not the same. They do not have that self fulfilling aspect. As such, much of the sense of accomplishment of making items in this game vanishes. Instead of “I built this house with my bare hands”, it’s “I worked a 9-5 and hired contractors to do the work”.

It doesn’t have the same feel for a lot of players.

Yeah I make a bee line to farm T6 mats as often as I can.. is it 100% reliable – no and it shouldn’t be.

GW2 like any MMO requires it to include a few carrots and things like that big ole legendary or the rare item collections are just that.. they are carrots but those carrots require you to keep jumpoing and reaching for them.

Other MMO’s have you endlessly farming the same dungeon, the same raid, the same farm spots in order to obtain that one shiny or those crafting mats.. there is nothing different about that per se in GW2.
The only real issue here is some players just want it yesterday with minimal effort beyond farming one spot on auto attack while they go to the pub and expect a pile of T6 in their inventory by the time they return… aint gunna happen. These items are longer term goals to keep you in game as long as possible until you achieve it or take the decision to buy gems and buy the mats.
The economy is set up to give you a choice.. be thankful that obtaining gold is easy in GW2 which in turn presents you with that choice to buy or farm.. you have still achieved your goal if you farm enough gold to buy the mats to make the shiny.. other MMO’s don’t and expect you pay each month to keep jumping for the carrots until RBG favors you or absolutely require you to buy currency to buy the mats..
I mean cmon in GW2 you don’t even need to use real hard cash if you don’t want to, but meeeh you cant always have cake and expect to eat it..
If ANET didn’t place these carrots what would we have left to achieve.. nah sorry this thread is about nothing more than one players desire to have things handed on a plate with the least amount of effort.

Because the convoluted drop system is completely unreliable.

Other than Veteran Karka that always drop one karka shell, there’s no other enemies that you can kill aiming for a certain drop. There’s only ‘chances’, and since there’s no accumulative drop rate to weight randomness, you could kill a million of them without ever getting a T6.

I can’t remember the last time I got a T6 or rare material anywhere in the world. And that includes all level 80 zones, exotic champion bags and heavy loot bags.

Hopefully the Map Reward system will solve this problem by giving a way to aim for certain drops.

MithranArkanere.8957:

Because the convoluted drop system is completely unreliable.

Other than Veteran Karka that always drop one karka shell, there’s no other enemies that you can kill aiming for a certain drop. There’s only ‘chances’, and since there’s no accumulative drop rate to weight randomness, you could kill a million of them without ever getting a T6.

I can’t remember the last time I got a T6 or rare material anywhere in the world. And that includes all level 80 zones, exotic champion bags and heavy loot bags.

Hopefully the Map Reward system will solve this problem by giving a way to aim for certain drops.

I believe it has to do with the fact that you get so many that you don’t even pay attention to them anymore. And the system in place, the whole “Oh my, rare loot!” comment your character makes, is thrown for anything Rare or better. Which is utterly worthless when it can be anything from something actually hard to obtain, to you getting a Boss bag, to you just salvaging Ambrite.

Similarly, there isn’t a reason to need drop rate increasing from monster kills when the inherent system for materials is so good (from drops anyway). Magic Find, as it stands, is utterly broken when it comes down to increasing your drops for them (which is probably why they’ve made most everything you get major loot from not interact with it at all). Get into the 500-600% range and you will easily see one per minute for some of the t6 materials (Blood is pretty much the only one that doesn’t make it that high, and Venom Sacs go way over that).

And beyond all that, there’s an obvious reason that they don’t do it. From your very specific example being that very reason no less: by making it have a % drop rate, they make it worth anything. Comparatively, Karka Shells are worth nothing despite their use in the higher tiers of crafting. They only hold any value at all due to the fact that no one even wants to bother with farming them + they only drop in one area. And when their price has slowly crept up to be worth something, people run in there in droves and wreck up the place and destroy the value in them again. Despite being used in the most crafted Exotic armor (because of leveling up Crafting), it’s still the cheapest (which is also why it’s the most crafted armor).

Garth Thurgen.1380:

Karka Shells are worth nothing despite their use in the higher tiers of crafting. They only hold any value at all due to the fact that no one even wants to bother with farming them + they only drop in one area. And when their price has slowly crept up to be worth something, people run in there in droves and wreck up the place and destroy the value in them again. Despite being used in the most crafted Exotic armor (because of leveling up Crafting), it’s still the cheapest (which is also why it’s the most crafted armor).

You need 30 karka shells per exotic insignia/inscription, at a price of 7s per karka shell, you pay 2.1g, which makes it one of the most expensive insignias to craft.
Zerker costs 2.65g with t6 blood at 53s atm.

The cheapest exotic armor would be giver´s armor with 10 t6 snowflakes setting you back a whopping 1s.

And i find 7s for killing a veteran karka quite a good reward to be honest.

Wanze.8410:

Garth Thurgen.1380:

Karka Shells are worth nothing despite their use in the higher tiers of crafting. They only hold any value at all due to the fact that no one even wants to bother with farming them + they only drop in one area. And when their price has slowly crept up to be worth something, people run in there in droves and wreck up the place and destroy the value in them again. Despite being used in the most crafted Exotic armor (because of leveling up Crafting), it’s still the cheapest (which is also why it’s the most crafted armor).

You need 30 karka shells per exotic insignia/inscription, at a price of 7s per karka shell, you pay 2.1g, which makes it one of the most expensive insignias to craft.
Zerker costs 2.65g with t6 blood at 53s atm.

The cheapest exotic armor would be giver´s armor with 10 t6 snowflakes setting you back a whopping 1s.

And i find 7s for killing a veteran karka quite a good reward to be honest.

Ah, true. I was switching Giver’s and Apothecary’s in my mind. Doesn’t really change the point of my statement, though, just makes my footnote wrong.

And yeah, 7s for Veteran Karka is pretty good. You can very easily get over a hundred of them in an hour, which is pretty solid gold, and factoring drops as well it goes up pretty high. It’s just that, in comparison to the other major gold making methods, it’s a pretty lackluster way to make money in comparison to the others. Even in comparison to the other T6 materials it’s not really worth farming if you can get your Magic Find up high enough. Variance sucks for doing it only using grinding, but overall the system is extremely good for getting what you want fast.

Garth Thurgen.1380:

Wanze.8410:

Garth Thurgen.1380:

Karka Shells are worth nothing despite their use in the higher tiers of crafting. They only hold any value at all due to the fact that no one even wants to bother with farming them + they only drop in one area. And when their price has slowly crept up to be worth something, people run in there in droves and wreck up the place and destroy the value in them again. Despite being used in the most crafted Exotic armor (because of leveling up Crafting), it’s still the cheapest (which is also why it’s the most crafted armor).

You need 30 karka shells per exotic insignia/inscription, at a price of 7s per karka shell, you pay 2.1g, which makes it one of the most expensive insignias to craft.
Zerker costs 2.65g with t6 blood at 53s atm.

The cheapest exotic armor would be giver´s armor with 10 t6 snowflakes setting you back a whopping 1s.

And i find 7s for killing a veteran karka quite a good reward to be honest.

Ah, true. I was switching Giver’s and Apothecary’s in my mind. Doesn’t really change the point of my statement, though, just makes my footnote wrong.

And yeah, 7s for Veteran Karka is pretty good. You can very easily get over a hundred of them in an hour, which is pretty solid gold, and factoring drops as well it goes up pretty high. It’s just that, in comparison to the other major gold making methods, it’s a pretty lackluster way to make money in comparison to the others. Even in comparison to the other T6 materials it’s not really worth farming if you can get your Magic Find up high enough. Variance sucks for doing it only using grinding, but overall the system is extremely good for getting what you want fast.

Even with givers/snowflakes, i fail to make sense of your footnote, as anybody would have a hard time atm to kill a mob that drops snowflakes or earn a container that drops snowflakes at a rate that you could consider farming, with the gift tree in the home instance the only source through wintersday gifts generated.

Southsun is also one of the most undervalued farming locations in my opinion. Granted, I havent farmed there in a long time but I once did 1 hour of farming southsun every day for a month or so with a party of 5 that usually speed cleared dungeons.

To avoid DR, we not only killed veteran karkas but also hit all other mob clusters, for example barracudas and sharks for skales, did some events (reclaiming steampipe steading easily gave you more than 2g in loot, if you had enough people to scale it up) and harvested nodes, 1-2g worth of passion flowers from 3 nodes.

And that was at a time when karka shells went for 3s and passion flowers for less than 15s but even then, we made 2-3 times the gold per hour than we would have earned with 1 hour dungeon running.

Garth Thurgen.1380:

[…]

If I got so many that I don’t notice them anymore I would not complaining about not getting any. I always have my eye in the received items queue.

And I’m well aware that the character only says lines rare stuff about if the item is only rare or higher quality.

And I do not need nor want higher drop rates.

I do not want rates, chances nor any twaddle like that. I despise randomness in anything but things like procedural generation, like enemy appearances and builds, generated maps, biomes, etc.

I want guaranteed rewards for completing stuff, and ways to aim for specific stuff. Like having the vendors spawning at the end of events have limited stocks of items for sale. Complete an event related to grawl? You get one guaranteed Large skull the first time it’s done, and the vendor has up to 5 more for sale for a reasonable cost of karma, gold and/or other currencies and materials. Buy them, that vendor won’t have any for some time as the stock is used up. But you can look for other grawl-related event, it may also give a skull, and spawn a vendor with some skulls for sale.

Wanze.8410:

Even with givers/snowflakes, i fail to make sense of your footnote, as anybody would have a hard time atm to kill a mob that drops snowflakes or earn a container that drops snowflakes at a rate that you could consider farming, with the gift tree in the home instance the only source through wintersday gifts generated.

Southsun is also one of the most undervalued farming locations in my opinion. Granted, I havent farmed there in a long time but I once did 1 hour of farming southsun every day for a month or so with a party of 5 that usually speed cleared dungeons.

To avoid DR, we not only killed veteran karkas but also hit all other mob clusters, for example barracudas and sharks for skales, did some events (reclaiming steampipe steading easily gave you more than 2g in loot, if you had enough people to scale it up) and harvested nodes, 1-2g worth of passion flowers from 3 nodes.

And that was at a time when karka shells went for 3s and passion flowers for less than 15s but even then, we made 2-3 times the gold per hour than we would have earned with 1 hour dungeon running.

Flawless Snowflakes have a rise of 100k being sold on the market every couple of days. Either those trees are way more than you expect, or the amount of Snowflakes that people have stored up is that extreme. The amount there is so extreme, that there’s not really a good way to compare them. They’re too far estranged from what’s going on that it just doesn’t work.

And yeah, it’s possible to make more in Southsun than you can in dungeon running, despite it normally being considered a better place: you don’t run them fast enough to be worth it. If you’re not fast at dungeons, then you would obviously not get more money there. On the flip side the amount you can get from their daily bonuses, if you are fast enough, makes them considerably more valuable. Similarly, the other profitable locations are considerably more than Southsun as of right now. Right now you’re still only going to barely make the 8g/hr mark, which isn’t cutting it in comparison to the other farms.

MithranArkanere.8957:

post

You say “reasonable,” but what exactly is reasonable? How would you exactly put a price on this sort of thing? Clearly it’s for a rare-ish item, as you can only obtain it through a very special way and only for doing some special things, but what exactly is a price that’d make sense? That’s really not a good quantification for anything, especially seeing as “reasonable” is completely different for multiples of people. My “it should cost 3g per Large Skull” might not be reasonable to you, but I see no reason that it couldn’t be that.

Similarly, there’s a 0% chance of them ever getting rid of random drops (\Hey, at least it’s not random!). The lottery effect is literally the driving force for what makes MMORPGs work as a medium (and many other game types are based extremely around a random factor in a similar manner, such as normal RPGs and Rogue-likes). This is the wrong type of game for you if that’s going to be a driving factor. Even if they make some things not RNG they’re never going to make everything RNG; So your complaint will always be there.

I think that’s because t6 mats are a major part of a legendary crafting, which is supposed to be the hardest task in the game.

Personally i think it’s a smart move from anet keep those droprates low, because from what i’ve seen in the last 2 years, like 70% of ppl craft their legendaries, have the feeling they reached the end game and pop out of the it.

Spirited Was Eceni.3869:

Buy a second account the next time there is a sale. Last time there was a sale you could buy the deluxe version for £12.50. Log on for 5mins each day to open the daily chest, every 4 weeks that will give you 55 laurels which you trade for T6 crafting bags. 3 T6 mats per laurel = 165 T6 mats every 4 weeks for doing next to nothing. Mail them and anything else you have to your main account.

In a couple of months your second account will have paid for itself in money you don’t need to spend in game.

The fact that people ‘play’ the game like this perfectly demonstrates the problem of the current system.

Wanze.8410:

aophts.9862:

In every other MMO out there, you can farm to acquire materials to create something, it takes some time, but you can, you have a DECENT drop rate. But in GW2 you can’t, even with high magic find you only get junk and the drop rate of good materials (the T6) are ABYSMAL (to be gentle).

“B-but you have moldy bags!”
Do you mean those bags that have a 0.0000000000000000001% chance of T6 mats and a lot of Thick Leather Section?

Yes, it is a complain, but what i want to know is, why we can’t farm the materials? Why it boils down to farm gold like a madman in dungeons and fractals?

I think the main reason is because how the economy and tp works.

Anet tries to make it very hard to farm all the mats for your own demand because if everybody could easily farm his own mats, those that dont need it, wouldnt be able to sell their drops. That would result in alot of useless drops.

IF there goal was to prevent useless drops then they’ve failed abysmally.

Wanze.8410:

aophts.9862:

In every other MMO out there, you can farm to acquire materials to create something, it takes some time, but you can, you have a DECENT drop rate. But in GW2 you can’t, even with high magic find you only get junk and the drop rate of good materials (the T6) are ABYSMAL (to be gentle).

“B-but you have moldy bags!”
Do you mean those bags that have a 0.0000000000000000001% chance of T6 mats and a lot of Thick Leather Section?

Yes, it is a complain, but what i want to know is, why we can’t farm the materials? Why it boils down to farm gold like a madman in dungeons and fractals?

I think the main reason is because how the economy and tp works.

Anet tries to make it very hard to farm all the mats for your own demand because if everybody could easily farm his own mats, those that dont need it, wouldnt be able to sell their drops. That would result in alot of useless drops.

Now you almost only get ‘useless’ drops that people then sell to buy the stuff they really want. (that is why GW2 is by many considered as such a grind). For your example, as long as people can sell the mats that problem would not exist. In fact, this it how it works in many mmo’s, those who like to grind gold to buy the stuff they want are able to do so, and those who want to go directly for the items are also able to do so. Play the way you want. The way it’s implemented in GW2 you usually see in F2P games because it gets people to buy the things they want spending real cash.

Thatkitten Rat.1236:

Wanze.8410:

aophts.9862:

In every other MMO out there, you can farm to acquire materials to create something, it takes some time, but you can, you have a DECENT drop rate. But in GW2 you can’t, even with high magic find you only get junk and the drop rate of good materials (the T6) are ABYSMAL (to be gentle).

“B-but you have moldy bags!”
Do you mean those bags that have a 0.0000000000000000001% chance of T6 mats and a lot of Thick Leather Section?

Yes, it is a complain, but what i want to know is, why we can’t farm the materials? Why it boils down to farm gold like a madman in dungeons and fractals?

I think the main reason is because how the economy and tp works.

Anet tries to make it very hard to farm all the mats for your own demand because if everybody could easily farm his own mats, those that dont need it, wouldnt be able to sell their drops. That would result in alot of useless drops.

IF there goal was to prevent useless drops then they’ve failed abysmally.

No, their goal was to make sure that the drop that is useless to you, is still valuable to someone else, so you could barter it for gold and choose what you buy with it.

Wanze.8410:

Thatkitten Rat.1236:

Wanze.8410:

aophts.9862:

In every other MMO out there, you can farm to acquire materials to create something, it takes some time, but you can, you have a DECENT drop rate. But in GW2 you can’t, even with high magic find you only get junk and the drop rate of good materials (the T6) are ABYSMAL (to be gentle).

“B-but you have moldy bags!”
Do you mean those bags that have a 0.0000000000000000001% chance of T6 mats and a lot of Thick Leather Section?

Yes, it is a complain, but what i want to know is, why we can’t farm the materials? Why it boils down to farm gold like a madman in dungeons and fractals?

I think the main reason is because how the economy and tp works.

Anet tries to make it very hard to farm all the mats for your own demand because if everybody could easily farm his own mats, those that dont need it, wouldnt be able to sell their drops. That would result in alot of useless drops.

IF there goal was to prevent useless drops then they’ve failed abysmally.

No, their goal was to make sure that the drop that is useless to you, is still valuable to someone else, so you could barter it for gold and choose what you buy with it.

Absolutely. It’s clear from nearly everything they publish and especially John Smith’s posts on the forum: ANet believes that the Trading Post is a critical core component to the economy and to player rewards.

• Everyone gets stuff.
• Keep the stuff you like or can use.
• Sell the stuff you don’t like or can’t use so that you can buy other stuff you like or need.

Some folks prefer a system that offers specific progress towards specific goals. This game also offers that with dungeon tokens (for dungeon skins), geodes (for amberite skins), bandit crests (for carapace/lumi skins), PvP rewards, WvW skins, and so on.

I realize a lot of people are used to MMOs and single-player RPGs that allowed them to “live off the land” (in effect: gathering all the materials themselves), but, like the traditional combat trinity, it’s a historical artifact from pencil & paper gaming and the storage-limited early days of gaming. It wasn’t just that you could farm everything yourself, you pretty much had to.

In GW2, you get to play whatever content you want and gain all basic tools/gear for the game and plenty of luxuries, too.

I still get plenty of other things that other players want just by questing in other games. Playing the way I want to, I get drops that I don’t need and I sell them to those who do. Unlike this title, however, when I need something specific I have the choice of both buying it from others OR going out and farming it myself or with friends and guildies. That doesn’t happen here; this isn’t a better system for “play how you like” in regards to mats.

Varrg.2704:

You can’t farm mats because of gem store. ANet wants you to buy stuff with real money, no to get stuff by actually playing the game.

….and by “actually playing the game.”, you mean farming for specific mats? Right…..

Bloodstealer.5978:

Essence Snow.3194:

Garth Thurgen.1380:

Lambent.6375:

snip and Bloodstealer’s easywin comment just made me think he was saying OP just wanted things handed to him.

That’s basically what he’s saying. aophts is wanting things to be easier for the rarer items. All rarer items, not just the ones that actually have a problem (easy to tell due to his complaint about T6 materials as opposed to, say, Silver Doubloons or Giant Eyes). How they are obtained in all games is the exact same: either by farming the item, crafting the item, or by buying the item (when applicable for obvious reasons). However, the items in question have to be rarer than the vendor-trash loot in order to have them still be valuable (which is why the vendor-trash loot is just that). This leads to Bloodstealer’s point: that all aophts really wants is for things to be easy, snip

I disagree. Have you ever tried to directly farm t6 mats? (directly, not indirectly) It’s simply not realistic in this game. You farm for loot in general here and those mats happen to be a byproduct of that. If you specifically target a specific item in this game to farm you are in for a rude awakening.

The acquisition methods of this game simply are not the same. They do not have that self fulfilling aspect. As such, much of the sense of accomplishment of making items in this game vanishes. Instead of “I built this house with my bare hands”, it’s “I worked a 9-5 and hired contractors to do the work”.

It doesn’t have the same feel for a lot of players.

Yeah I make a bee line to farm T6 mats as often as I can.. is it 100% reliable – no and it shouldn’t be.

GW2 like any MMO requires it to include a few carrots and things like that big ole legendary or the rare item collections are just that.. they are carrots but those carrots require you to keep jumpoing and reaching for them.

Other MMO’s have you endlessly farming the same dungeon, the same raid, the same farm spots in order to obtain that one shiny or those crafting mats.. there is nothing different about that per se in GW2.
The only real issue here is some players just want it yesterday with minimal effort beyond farming one spot on auto attack while they go to the pub and expect a pile of T6 in their inventory by the time they return… aint gunna happen. These items are longer term goals to keep you in game as long as possible until you achieve it or take the decision to buy gems and buy the mats.
The economy is set up to give you a choice.. be thankful that obtaining gold is easy in GW2 which in turn presents you with that choice to buy or farm.. you have still achieved your goal if you farm enough gold to buy the mats to make the shiny.. other MMO’s don’t and expect you pay each month to keep jumping for the carrots until RBG favors you or absolutely require you to buy currency to buy the mats..
I mean cmon in GW2 you don’t even need to use real hard cash if you don’t want to, but meeeh you cant always have cake and expect to eat it..
If ANET didn’t place these carrots what would we have left to achieve.. nah sorry this thread is about nothing more than one players desire to have things handed on a plate with the least amount of effort.

These kinds of posts just make me do a double face palm. Farming shouldn’t be reliable? Are you kidding me? The human race wouldn’t be here right now if farming wasn’t reliable. There’s a reason why it’s called Farming. It’s the same concept, obtaining absolutely necessary items to progress. Farming exists in all MMOs save for GW2, at no time in any other title has there been such a sustained level of DR in a game until now, and it’s directly causing the numbers per server to dwindle because people play games to feel rewarded. Countless psychological studies on the subject have proven that beyond a shadow of a doubt, and when you take the reward away you break the psychological chain that brings people back.

The problem isn’t the rarity, the problem is DR.

Adding a token system won’t solve the problem when the problem is DR. End of story.

Brother Grimm.5176:

Varrg.2704:

You can’t farm mats because of gem store. ANet wants you to buy stuff with real money, no to get stuff by actually playing the game.

….and by “actually playing the game.”, you mean farming for specific mats? Right…..

Exactly, they keep using the phrase, “Handed to them” but they completely negate the fact that farming IS ACTUALLY PLAYING THE GAME. These arguments are amazing aren’t they? Remember back in the day when they said welfare epics were handing epics to people even though people who got those epics were doing the exact same things as those who wanted to flaunt that they did something they thought made them special from all the rest? Yeah, these are the same people but this time they are talking about loot and their arguments are no more valid today then when they were talking about welfare epics.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Wanze.8410:

Thatkitten Rat.1236:

Wanze.8410:

aophts.9862:

In every other MMO out there, you can farm to acquire materials to create something, it takes some time, but you can, you have a DECENT drop rate. But in GW2 you can’t, even with high magic find you only get junk and the drop rate of good materials (the T6) are ABYSMAL (to be gentle).

“B-but you have moldy bags!”
Do you mean those bags that have a 0.0000000000000000001% chance of T6 mats and a lot of Thick Leather Section?

Yes, it is a complain, but what i want to know is, why we can’t farm the materials? Why it boils down to farm gold like a madman in dungeons and fractals?

I think the main reason is because how the economy and tp works.

Anet tries to make it very hard to farm all the mats for your own demand because if everybody could easily farm his own mats, those that dont need it, wouldnt be able to sell their drops. That would result in alot of useless drops.

IF there goal was to prevent useless drops then they’ve failed abysmally.

No, their goal was to make sure that the drop that is useless to you, is still valuable to someone else, so you could barter it for gold and choose what you buy with it.

Absolutely. It’s clear from nearly everything they publish and especially John Smith’s posts on the forum: ANet believes that the Trading Post is a critical core component to the economy and to player rewards.

• Everyone gets stuff.
• Keep the stuff you like or can use.
• Sell the stuff you don’t like or can’t use so that you can buy other stuff you like or need.

Some folks prefer a system that offers specific progress towards specific goals. This game also offers that with dungeon tokens (for dungeon skins), geodes (for amberite skins), bandit crests (for carapace/lumi skins), PvP rewards, WvW skins, and so on.

I realize a lot of people are used to MMOs and single-player RPGs that allowed them to “live off the land” (in effect: gathering all the materials themselves), but, like the traditional combat trinity, it’s a historical artifact from pencil & paper gaming and the storage-limited early days of gaming. It wasn’t just that you could farm everything yourself, you pretty much had to.

In GW2, you get to play whatever content you want and gain all basic tools/gear for the game and plenty of luxuries, too.

It’s not an artifact, many people (including me) simply find that way way way more enjoyable.

And then the ‘In GW2, you get to play whatever content you want’ statement based on this is FUBAR (Where the F stands for flawed).

You do not increase the options to play the way you want, you decrease them only leaving the grind for currency to buy what you really want. An option also available in most games that use the “live off the land’ approach as you name it (nice way to name it, should remember that) because those items where not account-bound. So the option was there so grind th gold and get them that way, but you could also ‘life of the land’ if you wanted. What (I say it again) is way more enjoyable if you ask me.

To be honest, the only reason I can see why they use this new model is because it makes gold way more important and of course you can buy gold with cash so it makes that way more attractive. But with the fact that in “Live of the land” approach you ALSO have the option to do it as it works in GW2 there really isn’t any positive the GW2 model has against the Live of the land model. At least none I can see.

tigirius.9014:

Brother Grimm.5176:

Varrg.2704:

You can’t farm mats because of gem store. ANet wants you to buy stuff with real money, no to get stuff by actually playing the game.

….and by “actually playing the game.”, you mean farming for specific mats? Right…..

Exactly, they keep using the phrase, “Handed to them” but they completely negate the fact that farming IS ACTUALLY PLAYING THE GAME. These arguments are amazing aren’t they? Remember back in the day when they said welfare epics were handing epics to people even though people who got those epics were doing the exact same things as those who wanted to flaunt that they did something they thought made them special from all the rest? Yeah, these are the same people but this time they are talking about loot and their arguments are no more valid today then when they were talking about welfare epics.

I think that the big difference is that the current grind approach is considered more boring then when people can farm directly for the items. So then it becomes more interesting to buy the mats.

At least I can say for a fact that I find the gold grind way more boring and have no problem with some farming. Now I also don’t fall for the trap of spending money on it and I will also not do the grind but that does result in the fact that a big part of the game / content falls away.

I wonder if people claiming that drops being random is a great system would feel the same if nodes were also random. Need platinum? Any node anywhere may or may not drop it, so get to pickin’.

As a farmer I would PREFER MORE randomization in nodes because it would result in more money when I go to sell the mats I get from them and when I do farm for my own mats, means I can do it where ever I want. The people claiming random drops are a great system acknowledge the equality in availability through the market, not on the supply side, which has no effect on them anyways. They know that their supply is through the market, not through doing stuff.

Being able to reliably farm materials one needs in massive quantities is not “easywin.” That is completely absurd.

Obtena.7952:

As a farmer I would PREFER MORE randomization in nodes because it would result in more money when I go to sell the mats I get from them and when I do farm for my own mats, means I can do it where ever I want. The people claiming random drops are a great system acknowledge the equality in availability through the market, not on the supply side, which has no effect on them anyways. They know that their supply is through the market, not through doing stuff.

Unless someone decides to buy up everything and price it higher. What do you do when you need mats? You then have to bite the bullet and pay because there’s no reliable way for you to farm them.

As to the nodes, you’re honestly going to tell me if you need a specific metal you don’t want it on specific nodes in specific areas, you want to just go farm randomly and hope you get what you need? Let’s say you’re farming to make a little extra gold, you’d be happy if 85% of what you got is copper instead of platinum or ori if that’s what you’re hunting?

Obtena.7952:

As a farmer I would PREFER MORE randomization in nodes because it would result in more money when I go to sell the mats I get from them and when I do farm for my own mats, means I can do it where ever I want. The people claiming random drops are a great system acknowledge the equality in availability through the market, not on the supply side, which has no effect on them anyways. They know that their supply is through the market, not through doing stuff.

So then you are not a farmer but a grinding. You are then just grinding for gold not farming mats.

“it would result in more money” What is useless because the mats you will then buy for the money will also cost more. Of course mats that drop more wil still be cheaper than the ones that have rare drops.

“and when I do farm for my own mats, means I can do it where ever I want.” You mean you can grind everywhere and then sell it to get the money to buy the mats you really want.
Surprise, you can also do that with the current system. Mats are not account-bound so go ‘farm’ wherever you want, sell the mats you got for gold and buy the ones you want.

“The people claiming random drops are a great system acknowledge the equality in availability through the market, not on the supply side, which has no effect on them anyways. They know that their supply is through the market, not through doing stuff.” It has nothing to do with acknowledging anything, it has to do with considering something fun vs finding something boring.

“They know that their supply is through the market, not through doing stuff.”
Yeah what results in the fact that brainlessly grinding is how you get what you want instead of really ‘doing stuff’ and many people are playing an MMO to do stuff other than brainlessly grinding. Whatever makes the most money is what ‘makes’ the market at this moment.

Prototypemind.4026:

Obtena.7952:

As a farmer I would PREFER MORE randomization in nodes because it would result in more money when I go to sell the mats I get from them and when I do farm for my own mats, means I can do it where ever I want. The people claiming random drops are a great system acknowledge the equality in availability through the market, not on the supply side, which has no effect on them anyways. They know that their supply is through the market, not through doing stuff.

Unless someone decides to buy up everything and price it higher. What do you do when you need mats? You then have to bite the bullet and pay because there’s no reliable way for you to farm them.

So being able to gain large amounts of gold by playing the game in many differnt ways (harvesting nodes, running dungeons, Silverwastes, etc.) and then spending that gold to buy only what you want off the trading post is “no reliable way”?

Have you ever even played any other MMO?

Obtaining the materials that you need in most games is horrible. You end up investing all of your time to get what you need because nobody sells them. Instead you have to trade one rare material for another. And it all requires farming.

Yes, people can manipulate the costs. But it requires a huge effort and for the most part it averages out and is beneficial to everyone involved.

Lambent.6375:

But in Gw2, for example, if one wanted to make a Gift of Light, directly farming 100 charged loadstones from sparks would be absurd. It would be far easier to just farm gold, and buy 1-3 lodestones or cores a day.

I have done exactly that, 4 times. Foefire’s Essence, Foefire’s Power, Eidolon and Sunrise. With high enough MF and lots of DPS, you can get a lot of lodes. This was done when Charged Lodes were like 4g, my best was 8 lodes in 1hr, good luck farming 32g in 1hr Average was about 4, so that worked out to be 16g per hour. Plus all the other drops, many rares and exotics too, plus the opals they drop sell for 1s+ per.

Although, the drop rate for normal mats should be increased. I remember playing LoTRO and farming Exquisite hides, I knew there was a place in the Ettinmoors that had lots of mobs that dropped them, so you could go there and farm for a couple of hours to get a couple of stacks, then make stuff or sell them.

Now, I just do an hour of overtime at work and buy 350g.

Garth Thurgen.1380:

Magic Find, as it stands, is utterly broken when it comes down to increasing your drops for them (which is probably why they’ve made most everything you get major loot from not interact with it at all). Get into the 500-600% range and you will easily see one per minute for some of the t6 materials (Blood is pretty much the only one that doesn’t make it that high, and Venom Sacs go way over that).

MF is capped at 300%.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Lambent.6375:

But in Gw2, for example, if one wanted to make a Gift of Light, directly farming 100 charged loadstones from sparks would be absurd. It would be far easier to just farm gold, and buy 1-3 lodestones or cores a day.

I have done exactly that, 4 times. Foefire’s Essence, Foefire’s Power, Eidolon and Sunrise. With high enough MF and lots of DPS, you can get a lot of lodes. This was done when Charged Lodes were like 4g, my best was 8 lodes in 1hr, good luck farming 32g in 1hr Average was about 4, so that worked out to be 16g per hour. Plus all the other drops, many rares and exotics too, plus the opals they drop sell for 1s+ per.

Although, the drop rate for normal mats should be increased. I remember playing LoTRO and farming Exquisite hides, I knew there was a place in the Ettinmoors that had lots of mobs that dropped them, so you could go there and farm for a couple of hours to get a couple of stacks, then make stuff or sell them.

Now, I just do an hour of overtime at work and buy 350g.

Garth Thurgen.1380:

Magic Find, as it stands, is utterly broken when it comes down to increasing your drops for them (which is probably why they’ve made most everything you get major loot from not interact with it at all). Get into the 500-600% range and you will easily see one per minute for some of the t6 materials (Blood is pretty much the only one that doesn’t make it that high, and Venom Sacs go way over that).

MF is capped at 300%.

Account bound MF is capped at 300% but you can get it over 500% with other boosts.

Hannelore.8153:

Prototypemind.4026:

Obtena.7952:

As a farmer I would PREFER MORE randomization in nodes because it would result in more money when I go to sell the mats I get from them and when I do farm for my own mats, means I can do it where ever I want. The people claiming random drops are a great system acknowledge the equality in availability through the market, not on the supply side, which has no effect on them anyways. They know that their supply is through the market, not through doing stuff.

Unless someone decides to buy up everything and price it higher. What do you do when you need mats? You then have to bite the bullet and pay because there’s no reliable way for you to farm them.

So being able to gain large amounts of gold by playing the game in many differnt ways (harvesting nodes, running dungeons, Silverwastes, etc.) and then spending that gold to buy only what you want off the trading post is “no reliable way”?

Have you ever even played any other MMO?

Obtaining the materials that you need in most games is horrible. You end up investing all of your time to get what you need because nobody sells them. Instead you have to trade one rare material for another. And it all requires farming.

Yes, people can manipulate the costs. But it requires a huge effort and for the most part it averages out and is beneficial to everyone involved.

Yep, and in other MMOs if I need items I can go farm them directly. This game, I can’t, and it’s a pain. This is, in fact, the only MMO I’ve put time into where I can’t get my own mats as I need them. I’m not sure how much simpler I can make that explanation. With the exception of rare drops I can go to areas where items drop and leave with what I need.

Again, I ask, if random drops are so great, what if you couldn’t get soft wood from certain trees, oricalcum ore from specific nodes? Wouldn’t that make the game even better because of your love of random drops? Go harvest and pray to the RNG gods that you get what you need.

Hannelore.8153:

Prototypemind.4026:

Obtena.7952:

As a farmer I would PREFER MORE randomization in nodes because it would result in more money when I go to sell the mats I get from them and when I do farm for my own mats, means I can do it where ever I want. The people claiming random drops are a great system acknowledge the equality in availability through the market, not on the supply side, which has no effect on them anyways. They know that their supply is through the market, not through doing stuff.

Unless someone decides to buy up everything and price it higher. What do you do when you need mats? You then have to bite the bullet and pay because there’s no reliable way for you to farm them.

So being able to gain large amounts of gold by playing the game in many differnt ways (harvesting nodes, running dungeons, Silverwastes, etc.) and then spending that gold to buy only what you want off the trading post is “no reliable way”?

Have you ever even played any other MMO?

Obtaining the materials that you need in most games is horrible. You end up investing all of your time to get what you need because nobody sells them. Instead you have to trade one rare material for another. And it all requires farming.

Yes, people can manipulate the costs. But it requires a huge effort and for the most part it averages out and is beneficial to everyone involved.

Well I played other games, and gathering mats usually is not a real problem. The higher tier maps are simply available in higher level area’s. That is about it.

Also I can’t say you ever see mats not being sold on those trading post.

“You end up investing all of your time to get what you need because nobody sells them. Instead you have to trade one rare material for another. " While usually not needed (You are usually able to get to the item you want directly) this is indeed an option and is in fact similar to how get your mats in GW2.

You sell one thing to buy another. So where is that difference? Other then that that is an option there while farming directly for them is also an option here and in GW2 the grind is the only reasonable way to get them.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Lambent.6375:

But in Gw2, for example, if one wanted to make a Gift of Light, directly farming 100 charged loadstones from sparks would be absurd. It would be far easier to just farm gold, and buy 1-3 lodestones or cores a day.

I have done exactly that, 4 times. Foefire’s Essence, Foefire’s Power, Eidolon and Sunrise. With high enough MF and lots of DPS, you can get a lot of lodes. This was done when Charged Lodes were like 4g, my best was 8 lodes in 1hr, good luck farming 32g in 1hr Average was about 4, so that worked out to be 16g per hour. Plus all the other drops, many rares and exotics too, plus the opals they drop sell for 1s+ per.

Although, the drop rate for normal mats should be increased. I remember playing LoTRO and farming Exquisite hides, I knew there was a place in the Ettinmoors that had lots of mobs that dropped them, so you could go there and farm for a couple of hours to get a couple of stacks, then make stuff or sell them.

Now, I just do an hour of overtime at work and buy 350g.

And this is exactly why the game works as it does. Because there are people like you. It says enough about the game itself that you rather work and buy the stuff with cash then play for it.

Also let’s not forget this is not only true for Mats but for most things you might want in the game like cosmetics. toys and mini’s.

All stuff I rather work towards in the game (not just by farming but also by completing specific content) but now basically gives you only two options. Grind or buy with cash. That is not why I play a game or go to a B2P game. It’s what I do expect in a F2P game, then again there is a reason I avoid F2P games.

Prototypemind.4026:

Again, I ask, if random drops are so great, what if you couldn’t get soft wood from certain trees, oricalcum ore from specific nodes? Wouldn’t that make the game even better because of your love of random drops? Go harvest and pray to the RNG gods that you get what you need.

I think that many of the people who do like this don’t really care what they need. They simply like to brainlessly grind for whatever drops, then sell it and buy it for gold.

Obviously the game now has many, if not mostly, people playing it that do like this grind because it scared away other people.

The thing however is that even if you could work directly towards the items the brainless grind would still be an option. You would still be able to do whatever, to get whatever to sell that and buy what you want.

The most interesting part of this thread is the constant vision I get of some players actually enjoying killing the same skelks over and over again to obtain materials rather than performing a number of other (repetitive) tasks to obtain gold and buy what those skelk drop…..

I guess I can see being upset that Anet thwarts the ability to farm skelk to your hearts content, but they do provide other options that sane players would consider less tedious…..but to each their own (I guess).

Prototypemind.4026:

Obtena.7952:

As a farmer I would PREFER MORE randomization in nodes because it would result in more money when I go to sell the mats I get from them and when I do farm for my own mats, means I can do it where ever I want. The people claiming random drops are a great system acknowledge the equality in availability through the market, not on the supply side, which has no effect on them anyways. They know that their supply is through the market, not through doing stuff.

Unless someone decides to buy up everything and price it higher. What do you do when you need mats?

If that actually happened, it would be a relevant point to discuss. For me personally, that would be awesome! I would really encourage someone to do that.

Brother Grimm.5176:

The most interesting part of this thread is the constant vision I get of some players actually enjoying killing the same skelks over and over again to obtain materials rather than performing a number of other (repetitive) tasks to obtain gold and buy what those skelk drop…..

I guess I can see being upset that Anet thwarts the ability to farm skelk to your hearts content, but they do provide other options that sane players would consider less tedious…..but to each their own (I guess).

There might be other option, but to consider them less tedious? The positive about the skelks at least is that if you need 10 of some mats you can kill them to get it (while also having the option to do something else) and then you need 10 of some other mats so you kill a few karka’s and so on.

The current system means the thing that rewards the best gold is the best way to get everything. So it results in people grinding only a limited part of the game and usually a very brainless grind. How many people do not grind GW2 while watching TV? Well I do not see that as a positive. Then I would rather just go a few skelks if I new a few mats and kill something else when I need something else tomorrow.

Another problem with mats btw is that they are very hard to get in this game. Mats (and everything you need a lot of) should be pretty easy to get. No endless farming of skelks but at most like half an hour.

The thing that should be hard to get (and so take longer) are things like recipe’s or items you only need one of, being it a skin or whatever. That could then also be put behind some longer challeging content or a quest chain. This would turn something like crafting into a few smaller farms and a few longer challenges to eventually get what you want versus grind, gold, grind gold and grind some more gold. You might find that more sane, I don’t.

Brother Grimm.5176:

The most interesting part of this thread is the constant vision I get of some players actually enjoying killing the same skelks over and over again to obtain materials rather than performing a number of other (repetitive) tasks to obtain gold and buy what those skelk drop…..

I guess I can see being upset that Anet thwarts the ability to farm skelk to your hearts content, but they do provide other options that sane players would consider less tedious…..but to each their own (I guess).

don’t kid yourself. The majority are not performing a number of other tasks to obtain gold to buy what they want. They are grinding out a couple select things. Sure they could mosey around doing random stuff but that is not going to get the gold very fast. So people will go to silverwaste or whatever the new FOTM spot is and grind that whether they like it or not because its the highest paying right now. Sure they might throw in the world boss train and a few dungeons but still they are grinding. The only difference between grinding gold or grinding specific items/mats is that when you are limited to just grinding gold everyone ends up grinding at the same place. Arenanet wants to know why 90% of their mid level maps were empty, its because there is no point in going to them unless they have something worth farming there. Since this game is all about farming gold, every place that isn’t in the top 5 for making gold will be empty until the world boss train runs through it for 5 minutes.