Guild Wars 2

Hop into PvP. You’ll find the true end-game challenge there.

Terrahero.9358:

As a result a lot of time and effort spend developing content that only pleases a very small portion of the player base, while it frustrates or otherwise does nothing for the majority of the players. That’s pretty inefficient.

To hell with all those casuals .. nobody needs them .. just look at the success from
Wildstar .. and how bad GW2 does ^^

The problem is that the hardcores need casuals .. just to show how much better
they are. If everybody in the game is hardcore and has the same stuff, then there
is again nothing you can show off … and you can only cry for even harder content
and hope even the other hardcores give up at some point when its too annyoing.

Well let’s have a look at hard content that has been released.

Tequatl and Triple Trouble were considered hard when released. Now that a strategy has been established for both of these, they are no longer hard. If they had been made harder than they currently are, they would have been EVEN harder at release and people would have complained about it being impossible.

Same can be said for Lupi in Arah explorable.

TA Aetherpath was also considered hard at release. It’s still hard enough that it takes less experienced teams over an hour to complete, which demotivates most people.

*Edited because the words “hard” and “on” are censored when combined together >.>

Most of the “difficult” content in this game isn’t really challenging. It’s mostly one shot mechanics, stunlock, and bosses with huge amounts of health.

Getting one shot doesn’t equal difficulty :\

Stuff that could make normal dungeons more complex:

-Make some bosses have very high armor, condi dmg now is not useless
-Remove downed state from dungeons
-More bosses with constant boon application, makes boon strip more usefull
-Lock utilities, traits and healing skill when you enter a dungeon. Like in spvp when a match start
-Some bosses that you can’t crit
-Bosses that strip boons
-Combination of all the above
-Some mechanics that eotm rock dogs have: take no frontal dmg
-Bosses that are more susceptible to ranged dmg and drop massive melee dmg

Jerus.4350:

Karizee.8076:

Probably because contrary to all the hooting and hollering for more difficult content, very few players actually do it when they give it to us (Liadri, TA Aetherpath, etc.)

Aetherpath is a gimmick filled path that simply doesn’t make me want to go back to it. Unlike say something like soloing Arah paths which is something I actively work at. There’s a big difference between a gimmick and difficult content. Liadri on the other hand would count, and I did see people banging their heads on her at all hours of the day for quite a while when that event happened, it wasn’t until at least half way through that time period that it seemed to die off and everyone was simply farming their tickets with whatever they found the fastest opponent.

I’m going to point out here that up until you said this, I’ve agreed with pretty much everything that you have said. About the cooperative/difficult content divide. general, good cooperation makes everything stupidly easy.

but here, you say that Aetherpath is just full of gimmicks whereas liadri is a difficult fight? That makes no coherent sense when juxtaposed with each other. Liadri is PURELY a gimmick fight. I’ve seen a bunch of tank condi builds just do the mechanic while not give a kitten about any of her damage and beat her no problem. If you understand the mechanic and have the right build, it’s easy (even with my zerker thief, a simple knowing when to dodge made it easy for me to dodge everything and down her before it was too much). Meanwhile, you could say a similar thing for Aetherpath but that one requires difficult + cooperative. In fact, a good player can defeat pretty much every boss solo…I don’t see why you don’t consider it in your difficult category if you consider liadri. I agree there should be more difficult fights and I consider some of these things the most difficult content in the game personally… However you aren’t consistent in what you want here.

I’m remembering the last “difficult” boss I had to face in a game which wasn’t reliany on OHKO or “out of nowhere gimmicks”. I actually seriously had trouble thinking about it and came up with two.

Nargacuga and Tigrex. Of course, these days Tiggy is known to be a practice ragdoll for experienced hunters who can still crank up the hurt on someone fighting for the first time. And last time I talked about Narga it was about how you could cheese the fight in five steps to where basically it was whether you could pack the proper items.

But on the other hand . . . I understand the last truly difficult boss without being completely cheap had to be Akuma back on his debut. Mostly because the AI was designed to do things players would do, as opposed to just spamming attacks.

I consider Liadri to be gimmicky since her one-hit kills from the clones and the AoEs were essentially the only threat, while classes that relied on any form of summon were greatly disadvantaged (mesmers, rangers mainly), and classes with evades could ignore the clone mechanic nearly entirely in a way requiring no skill at all. The timer also shoehorned people into speccing damage – which had no drawback given how weak Liadri herself was. I did the achievement, got the kill, but it’s more about understanding the gimmicks and breaking them, than any form of personal skill.

The marionette minibosses I considered to be pretty much the only content that required personal skill outside dungeons; there were several cases where the champs were completed by soloists after the rest of the people going in with them wiped that I saw. That was very well done – and while this encounter with the vinewrath uses similar mechanics, the fights with the champions themselves was lacklustre in comparison with the marionette’s champions. I still consider that as the best world boss they ever put in.

Tequatl and Triple wurm require no personal skill but a ton of coordination – more so for wurm given the 1 minute triple decap timeframe, and the tendency of the wurm to charge off into timbuktu at random afks or map explorers that stumble into a Phase II. It’s good for challenging guilds to coordinate and teach well, but again requires little to no personal skill.

Most other world bosses are gimmick-based, such as Mark II. You could kill it 4 times faster by meleeing at the triple damage spot and dodging lightning, but most players would rather just cheese the corner crate for a slower but braindead kill experience. Jormag is all about the DD, and knowing how to interrupt rocket 5 for infinite invulnerabilities, and requires no skill either. Hell, arah has its own gimmicks – the 75% instant kill reflection stunt on Lupi, the within-melee circle stunt also on lupi, the 50.5% backstab stunt on p2’s endboss, etc etc that replace skill with ‘knowing the code and acting in a way to break the code’. Also see: ways to jump over places you’re not supposed to jump to skip 80% of the dungeon.

At this point the only real challenge you can get from a non-gimmicky point of view is probably soloing Mai Trin at higher level fractals. Flamefrog waypoint’s spider is good for giggles if you solo it, but after a while it’s no longer challenging enough to be satisfying.

If you want to know why there is not so much hard content in GW2 go play Wildstar. Long story short, this game was dead mounth after release.

ExiledDiclonius.1653:

If you want to know why there is not so much hard content in GW2 go play Wildstar. Long story short, this game was dead mounth after release.

Yeah. Because that’s why it failed…

Sane.5072:

Jerus.4350:

Karizee.8076:

Probably because contrary to all the hooting and hollering for more difficult content, very few players actually do it when they give it to us (Liadri, TA Aetherpath, etc.)

Aetherpath is a gimmick filled path that simply doesn’t make me want to go back to it. Unlike say something like soloing Arah paths which is something I actively work at. There’s a big difference between a gimmick and difficult content. Liadri on the other hand would count, and I did see people banging their heads on her at all hours of the day for quite a while when that event happened, it wasn’t until at least half way through that time period that it seemed to die off and everyone was simply farming their tickets with whatever they found the fastest opponent.

I’m going to point out here that up until you said this, I’ve agreed with pretty much everything that you have said. About the cooperative/difficult content divide. general, good cooperation makes everything stupidly easy.

but here, you say that Aetherpath is just full of gimmicks whereas liadri is a difficult fight? That makes no coherent sense when juxtaposed with each other. Liadri is PURELY a gimmick fight. I’ve seen a bunch of tank condi builds just do the mechanic while not give a kitten about any of her damage and beat her no problem. If you understand the mechanic and have the right build, it’s easy (even with my zerker thief, a simple knowing when to dodge made it easy for me to dodge everything and down her before it was too much). Meanwhile, you could say a similar thing for Aetherpath but that one requires difficult + cooperative. In fact, a good player can defeat pretty much every boss solo…I don’t see why you don’t consider it in your difficult category if you consider liadri. I agree there should be more difficult fights and I consider some of these things the most difficult content in the game personally… However you aren’t consistent in what you want here.

I don’t disagree. When speaking of Gimmicks you’re entering the realm of subjectivism far more than most things. To me Liadri was great, which tainted my objective view, and yes it’s gimmicky, I simply liked it, so yeah thanks for calling me out, You’re right, I was being dumb there.

Guardian of Angels.9867:

“Marionette”

All I’ve got to say.
I want it back!! <3

And I hope to never see that grief-ridden crap again.

Harper.4173:

Also how exactly did you compare the "as rewarding " thing? How do you compare rewards in a game with your earned sum? Do they stack up somehow? You’re making no sense.

Exactly. The concept that you deserve meaningful rewards for “working” hard at a game effectively equates a game to actual productive labor. As you yourself just pointed out, it makes no sense. I’m glad I was able to finally get my point across.

Harper.4173:

And the general tone of “doing things for others is more beneficial – look I did it and made a lot of money” is also purely your experience.
I’m pretty sure there are people out there who’ve been doing everything for themselves and their own sake and made more money.

Name one. I’ll give an example that should be near and dear to our heart: streamers. I was watching Trump’s stream one day and Totalbiscuit happened to drop by. He stated by his estimation playing well only accounts for about 10% of success as a streamer. The rest comes from self-promotion and networking. In other words, establishing connections with others.

Calling others self-entitled for expecting the same in-game rewards despite not working as hard at entertaining themselves is the epitome of irony.

Harper.4173:

Maybe I’m slow and don’t understand your point but if they work less at entertaining themselves why should be more entertained than someone who worked harder at it?

Because ArenaNet is just as happy to spend money from both sets of players. In fact, one could argue that the hardcore player is a bigger drain on ArenaNet’s resources because they are using more server time. They are also more likely to purchase upgrades with in-game gold than with gems. With ArenaNet’s perspective, the “lazy” player is the more desirable one. The casual player’s gem shop purchases enable ArenaNet to create more content that can be enjoyed by hardcore and casual player alike.

Harper.4173:

Look at the Liadri fight – that was a good example. Why not have more of that?

Who said we can’t have more of that? However, that is a bit off-topic because Liadri is a solo fight and the OP was complaining about the difficulty of group content.

Harper.4173:

Difficult doesn’t have to mean a WoW raid – it could have a smaller scale with more focus on individuals.

You and I agree on this, but the OP was specifically asking for more “organized group level difficulty.”

if you could stop forcing difficult on players, that would be great.

you already have 3 whole new areas, dungeons, fractures and world bosses…..all new.
do you see new dungeons that are not so difficult, new areas that are made for lower levels/difficulty……no?…….my point exactly.

sorudo.9054:

if you could stop forcing difficult on players, that would be great.

you already have 3 whole new areas, dungeons, fractures and world bosses…..all new.
do you see new dungeons that are not so difficult, new areas that are made for lower levels/difficulty……no?…….my point exactly.

New dungeons? where?

The entire dry top/silverwastes zones are new areas made with a low difficulty, and the entire past 4 months have been focused on the ‘new player experience’ specifically targeting low-level players new to the game. You require only 4 players working together for a tier 5 dry top and a single player for a tier 4 even if everyone else just fails events, speaking from personal experience – tier 6 is a different beast that requires at least 20. Even so it isn’t even difficulty, but more about being at more than one place at a time, until tier 6. Silverwastes – nowadays given that silverwastes farmers routinely taxi into 60-95% completed worlds to farm breaches and the Vinewrath, you can essentially get a high completion rate without doing anything at all. The completion rate for successful breaches in my experience was close to 70-80% of the time, even though one quarter of the population merely popped in, tagged the champ, and swapped breach locations to get parts from all 4, every breach. After the nerf, the completion rate’s even higher.

The only difficult content added are essentially the aetherblade path, Tequatl and Triple Wurm – and all three were more than half a year ago.

Beldin.5498:

The problem is that the hardcores need casuals .. just to show how much better they are.

I’m pretty sure your post was tongue-in-cheek, but this is the blind spot that many hardcores have. Casuals aren’t going to stick around just to admire your exclusive gear. They’re simply going to find something better to do. If some of them (note that I didn’t say all) had their way, there would be no one left to show off to.

Guardian of Angels.9867:

“Marionette”

All I’ve got to say.
I want it back!! <3

Yes please!

Ayrilana.1396:

ExiledDiclonius.1653:

If you want to know why there is not so much hard content in GW2 go play Wildstar. Long story short, this game was dead mounth after release.

Yeah. Because that’s why it failed…

That’s pretty much what Carbine concluded, as stated at http://wildstar-core.com/2014/09/03/wildstar-omni-core/ :

When Wildstar was launched, it was heavily toted as “hardcore” especially in the sense of raiding. It now appears Carbine is adjusting its view with both previous and this upcoming patch. I wanted to know whether this was a pivot away from hardcore or a resolve to “The Devs are listening.” The official word from Frost was “both”, after seeing the feedback and looking at gameplay analytics they found that there was a real need to focus on solo content.

Jerus.4350:

sorudo.9054:

if you could stop forcing difficult on players, that would be great.

you already have 3 whole new areas, dungeons, fractures and world bosses…..all new.
do you see new dungeons that are not so difficult, new areas that are made for lower levels/difficulty……no?…….my point exactly.

New dungeons? where?

TA Aetherpath. It’s nobody’s problem if people asking for difficult content don’t do that dungeon. Sorudo hit the nail on the head.

Bernie.8674:

Ayrilana.1396:

ExiledDiclonius.1653:

If you want to know why there is not so much hard content in GW2 go play Wildstar. Long story short, this game was dead mounth after release.

Yeah. Because that’s why it failed…

That’s pretty much what Carbine concluded, as stated at http://wildstar-core.com/2014/09/03/wildstar-omni-core/ :

When Wildstar was launched, it was heavily toted as “hardcore” especially in the sense of raiding. It now appears Carbine is adjusting its view with both previous and this upcoming patch. I wanted to know whether this was a pivot away from hardcore or a resolve to “The Devs are listening.” The official word from Frost was “both”, after seeing the feedback and looking at gameplay analytics they found that there was a real need to focus on solo content.

It’s a blog post. Also I did not see anywhere where that was the sole reason for it failing. From what I have seen, there were many others reasons on top of the lack of solo content for those that want to play an M M O but not with other players.

Cuddy.6247:

Jerus.4350:

sorudo.9054:

if you could stop forcing difficult on players, that would be great.

you already have 3 whole new areas, dungeons, fractures and world bosses…..all new.
do you see new dungeons that are not so difficult, new areas that are made for lower levels/difficulty……no?…….my point exactly.

New dungeons? where?

TA Aetherpath. It’s nobody’s problem if people asking for difficult content don’t do that dungeon. Sorudo hit the nail on the head.

Ahh, I thought he was talking about something new, not something that came out over a year ago…

Ayrilana.1396:

It’s a blog post. Also I did not see anywhere where that was the sole reason for it failing. From what I have seen, there were many others reasons on top of the lack of solo content for those that want to play an M M O but not with other players.

Like.. the art direction/execution, skill/AMP acquisition, heavy gates to get into end-game content…

Windsagio.1340:

I feel like speed or efficiency bonuses would be a better way to give people what they actually want than just making the encounters inaccessible.

I can whole heartily agree with you on this point

The issue with harder content, like 40+ fractals, is that it requires substantial gear for it. The issue with content requiring said gear is that the gear itself is a massive long grind. Majority of the game has a horizontal gear progression with a steep incline at the high end. Going from exotics to ascended is a massive grind. Legendary weapons take a lot of time and effort.

Which is why you don’t see a whole lot of it. To be honest I’m hugely glad they don’t. It puts less focus on raiding, and other content as the “thing” to do.

Exotic to ascended is only an incline for agony resistance on fractals however. The stat bonuses are minimal; the increased base damage from weapons is generally regarded as the main reason why it may be a good idea to upgrade only the weapons. Beyond that the stat bonuses for going up one tier is limited and dwarfed by the power of either cheap food, or even a cheap utility like skale venom.

I see people going into dungeons all the time with ascended equipment but no food/utility buffs. It adds a grind target, but the amount whereby it changes the ultimate efficiency by which the content is done is minimal at best.

Does Nerfing Might make “content more difficult”

Reanne.5462:

Does Nerfing Might make “content more difficult”

The damage must be even lower .. if we believe all those people that constantly post
how easy this game is. To make them happy they should maybe remove might at all
or at least that stacking might works on other players.

And maybe reduce all damage generally by 50% …

But even then people would still cry thats all too easy .. so maybe they should remove
leveling up .. so you are level 1 forever .. and already have challenges in the starterzones
and only the best players ever would make it out of the starterzones.

And who is talking about fun here ? MMOs are “hard work” .. there is no room for fun.

I beat Ghosts ‘n Goblins on the NES when I was maybe 8 years old. Totally beat it. Cleared it, then cleared it again because that game pulls the biggest ’Sorry Mario, but your princess is in another castle’ move ever.

I’m willing to bet that very, very few of any of the chuckleheads crying for everything to be moar-harder could beat the first level.

naiasonod.9265:

I beat Ghosts ‘n Goblins on the NES when I was maybe 8 years old. Totally beat it. Cleared it, then cleared it again because that game pulls the biggest ’Sorry Mario, but your princess is in another castle’ move ever.

I’m willing to bet that very, very few of any of the chuckleheads crying for everything to be moar-harder could beat the first level.

Want harder, we could have have BattleHyleks as a fractal somewhere. :P

Rauderi.8706:

naiasonod.9265:

I beat Ghosts ‘n Goblins on the NES when I was maybe 8 years old. Totally beat it. Cleared it, then cleared it again because that game pulls the biggest ’Sorry Mario, but your princess is in another castle’ move ever.

I’m willing to bet that very, very few of any of the chuckleheads crying for everything to be moar-harder could beat the first level.

Want harder, we could have have BattleHyleks as a fractal somewhere. :P

As long as we get to use the speeder bikes or whatever they were.

Ayrilana.1396:

Rauderi.8706:

naiasonod.9265:

I beat Ghosts ‘n Goblins on the NES when I was maybe 8 years old. Totally beat it. Cleared it, then cleared it again because that game pulls the biggest ’Sorry Mario, but your princess is in another castle’ move ever.

I’m willing to bet that very, very few of any of the chuckleheads crying for everything to be moar-harder could beat the first level.

Want harder, we could have have BattleHyleks as a fractal somewhere. :P

As long as we get to use the speeder bikes or whatever they were.

Level 3 was boss.

Ayrilana.1396:

Bernie.8674:

Ayrilana.1396:

ExiledDiclonius.1653:

If you want to know why there is not so much hard content in GW2 go play Wildstar. Long story short, this game was dead mounth after release.

Yeah. Because that’s why it failed…

That’s pretty much what Carbine concluded, as stated at http://wildstar-core.com/2014/09/03/wildstar-omni-core/ :

When Wildstar was launched, it was heavily toted as “hardcore” especially in the sense of raiding. It now appears Carbine is adjusting its view with both previous and this upcoming patch. I wanted to know whether this was a pivot away from hardcore or a resolve to “The Devs are listening.” The official word from Frost was “both”, after seeing the feedback and looking at gameplay analytics they found that there was a real need to focus on solo content.

It’s a blog post. Also I did not see anywhere where that was the sole reason for it failing.

A blog post describing a personal interaction with Stephan Frost, who was a Wildstar design producer at the time. Also, I never said it was the sole reason, but they certainly identified it as a factor.

The problem with wildstar’s endgame content was that it was too hard. Unnecessary challenging content isn’t fun for the general crowd. There is a very very small fraction of players that enjoy it, but reality is that faction isn’t large enough to pay overhead cost of the game.

Alternative end game is the best course of action for an MMO. Having multiple paths of accomplishment is good for the general health and well being of a game. Fractals being one of the best examples of this. Scale-able content that offers diversity in challenge while not ending up a necessity. Because reality is, if fractals 50 offered the same look as fractals 1 the only people doing fractals 50 is that very very small percentage of people that like challenge. Most wouldn’t do it, because it’s not fun to most people.

The easiest way to make any content progressively harder is with alcohol. If you’re too young for that, find a dead map at off-peak hours and solo it

Speaking seriously. I appreciate your desire for harder content, but I can’t imagine a place where one side or the other doesn’t complain unless two difficulty levels van be implemented to satisfy both needs.

I’m pretty firmly convinced that it’s not difficulty people want (since most people, even ‘elites’ consistently avoid the hardest content currently in GW2), but rather recognition for doing stuff that others can’t do.

That’s the problem to solve.

Bernie.8674:

Ayrilana.1396:

Bernie.8674:

Ayrilana.1396:

ExiledDiclonius.1653:

If you want to know why there is not so much hard content in GW2 go play Wildstar. Long story short, this game was dead mounth after release.

Yeah. Because that’s why it failed…

That’s pretty much what Carbine concluded, as stated at http://wildstar-core.com/2014/09/03/wildstar-omni-core/ :

When Wildstar was launched, it was heavily toted as “hardcore” especially in the sense of raiding. It now appears Carbine is adjusting its view with both previous and this upcoming patch. I wanted to know whether this was a pivot away from hardcore or a resolve to “The Devs are listening.” The official word from Frost was “both”, after seeing the feedback and looking at gameplay analytics they found that there was a real need to focus on solo content.

It’s a blog post. Also I did not see anywhere where that was the sole reason for it failing.

A blog post describing a personal interaction with Stephan Frost, who was a Wildstar design producer at the time. Also, I never said it was the sole reason, but they certainly identified it as a factor.

You did. A player made a statement that Wildstar failed because there was hard content and that’s why there isn’t any in GW2. I sarcastically agreed. You responded by posting a link to that blog post saying that’s what the author pretty much concluded. That particular post of yours was you agreeing with the previous poster as you would not have made that post linking the article had you disagreed with them.

Also you’re reading way too much into the article. Nowhere did the article state that that was why Wildstar failed or even a factor. All it showed was that the dev team were shifting their focus towards more solo content as that’s what they saw a lot of players wanted. No evidence was provided that the change was a result of the game’s performance.

Dev’s are continuously looking for ways to improve the game for their players and this could simply be a result of that. Anet devs made Season 2 more permanent after hearing feedback from players. That decision wasn’t made because of GW2’s performance. I believe there was actually an upward trend around that time.

Windsagio.1340:

I’m pretty firmly convinced that it’s not difficulty people want (since most people, even ‘elites’ consistently avoid the hardest content currently in GW2), but rather recognition for doing stuff that others can’t do.

That’s the problem to solve.

You can believe whatever you wish, but I simply want content that makes me want to improve my play. Even one encounter that was a step up from Lupi would give me months more joy.

Personally I’m still playing with Lupi though, there are things I want to do to him that he hasn’t let me do to him yet, so I have some scheduled fun time still when I get the motivation to deal with the annoyances that come with playing with Lupi.

Windsagio.1340:

I’m pretty firmly convinced that it’s not difficulty people want (since most people, even ‘elites’ consistently avoid the hardest content currently in GW2), but rather recognition for doing stuff that others can’t do.

That’s the problem to solve.

It’s not a solvable problem – at least not for everyone. That kind of recognition specifically requires existence of people that can’t do that specific content, and at the same time care about doing it.
So, people that will be disappointed and will be arguing against such a situation.

Ayrilana.1396:

Rauderi.8706:

naiasonod.9265:

I beat Ghosts ‘n Goblins on the NES when I was maybe 8 years old. Totally beat it. Cleared it, then cleared it again because that game pulls the biggest ’Sorry Mario, but your princess is in another castle’ move ever.

I’m willing to bet that very, very few of any of the chuckleheads crying for everything to be moar-harder could beat the first level.

Want harder, we could have have BattleHyleks as a fractal somewhere. :P

As long as we get to use the speeder bikes or whatever they were.

Sounds like support for mounts, right there. Careful, or the Tyrians Against Irritating Mounts Interest will come for you. =P

Rauderi.8706:

Ayrilana.1396:

Rauderi.8706:

naiasonod.9265:

I beat Ghosts ‘n Goblins on the NES when I was maybe 8 years old. Totally beat it. Cleared it, then cleared it again because that game pulls the biggest ’Sorry Mario, but your princess is in another castle’ move ever.

I’m willing to bet that very, very few of any of the chuckleheads crying for everything to be moar-harder could beat the first level.

Want harder, we could have have BattleHyleks as a fractal somewhere. :P

As long as we get to use the speeder bikes or whatever they were.

Sounds like support for mounts, right there. Careful, or the Tyrians Against Irritating Mounts Interest will come for you. =P

It’ll be a “toy”

We need more difficult instanced content 1-5 man, but we’ll keep getting zerg fest content

RoRo.8270:

We need more difficult instanced content 1-5 man, but we’ll keep getting zerg fest content

More like you need to find a game that suit your needs better, not every game can be every thing to everyone.

Wildstar tried to cater to the loud hard core players and found out within a few weeks that hardcore actually do not care for challenging content they just want the content that provides the best loot. the truth is the future is not with the “I m leet crowd”.

I mean you can keep fighting against reality but hard content is just a Fancy code word for best loot.

silvermember.8941:

RoRo.8270:

We need more difficult instanced content 1-5 man, but we’ll keep getting zerg fest content

More like you need to find a game that suit your needs better, not every game can be every thing to everyone.

Wildstar tried to cater to the loud hard core players and found out within a few weeks that hardcore actually do not care for challenging content they just want the content that provides the best loot. the truth is the future is not with the “I m leet crowd”.

I mean you can keep fighting against reality but hard content is just a Fancy code word for best loot.

If you think Wildstar’s only issue was their leaning towards hardcore, you’re wrong. They did a lot of things wrong.

I will agree though that a heavy leaning in that direction is bad, but I also think not giving anything in that area is equally bad. There needs to be some incentive to get better at the game and to keep playing instead of going “welp I’ve mastered it…now I’m bored”.

And the beautiful thing about GW2 is that it’s not about the loot. Effort should be properly rewarded but that doesn’t mean best loot. Look at Arah, it’s worth it for the gold if you can do it smoothly, if you’re taking an hour to complete a path (which many PUGs do) then it’s simply not worth it. That’s good design right there.

naiasonod.9265:

Ayrilana.1396:

Rauderi.8706:

naiasonod.9265:

I beat Ghosts ‘n Goblins on the NES when I was maybe 8 years old. Totally beat it. Cleared it, then cleared it again because that game pulls the biggest ’Sorry Mario, but your princess is in another castle’ move ever.

I’m willing to bet that very, very few of any of the chuckleheads crying for everything to be moar-harder could beat the first level.

Want harder, we could have have BattleHyleks as a fractal somewhere. :P

As long as we get to use the speeder bikes or whatever they were.

Level 3 was boss.

It was definitely the boss of me. That was when I broke my cartridge.

My claim to “hard” content in the past? Contra with no code. Ultima 4, Quest of the Avatar, though that’s been ages.

I haven’t beaten NetHack, though. I kind of am not trying until I stop wanting to snap my tablet in half.

silvermember.8941:

More like you need to find a game that suit your needs better, not every game can be every thing to everyone.

Wildstar tried to cater to the loud hard core players and found out within a few weeks that hardcore actually do not care for challenging content they just want the content that provides the best loot. the truth is the future is not with the “I m leet crowd”.

I mean you can keep fighting against reality but hard content is just a Fancy code word for best loot.

actually its you who is fighting against reality.

heartless.6803:

The problem with wildstar’s endgame content was that it was too hard. Unnecessary challenging content isn’t fun for the general crowd. There is a very very small fraction of players that enjoy it, but reality is that faction isn’t large enough to pay overhead cost of the game.

Alternative end game is the best course of action for an MMO. Having multiple paths of accomplishment is good for the general health and well being of a game. Fractals being one of the best examples of this. Scale-able content that offers diversity in challenge while not ending up a necessity. Because reality is, if fractals 50 offered the same look as fractals 1 the only people doing fractals 50 is that very very small percentage of people that like challenge. Most wouldn’t do it, because it’s not fun to most people.

wildstar didnt fail because of its hardcore endgame content.

the problems are:
- you cant really do anything outside of raids.
- DS 40 roster boss is too strong.
- DS had/has alot of buggy fights and guilds need to re-progress nearly every week.

the game needed more time in beta/developement. but they are going to fix all of the issues.

the hardcore content in wildstar is even something that casual players enjoy and i know alot of casual players who left gw2 for wildstar and who are still playing wildstar and raiding.

and difficult content means high replayability and something to strive for. unlike in wow where the raids are cleared after 4 days lol.

this is actually the best fight ive ever seen in any MMO so far and nobody has killed the boss yet after like 2 months of pulls.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cesvnHP-BJM

if we had something like that in gw2 it wouldnt automatically mean anet wont focus on stuff for the casuals. raid content like that will be 1% of gw2 overall. so there is no need to worry about gw2 turning into a hardcore game.
want to raid? you can
dont want to raid? fine, you dont have to do it.
and since we dont have a gear treadmill there is nothing to worry about.
all of the anti-raid and anti-difficult arguments are just an outcry of people who are lazy and want to get everything in the game for pressing the 1 key on the keyboard.

i see people posting in this thread and claim “hardcore players dont want challenge and difficulty, they just want better loot”
who couldnt even kill the bosses in the glints lair living story instance after 1 hour of trying. thats a kittening joke right?
if you are that bad at gw2 or that stupid you dont even understand the simplest stuff then you shouldnt be posting lies and force your opinion on other people on a forum.

hardcore players dont want to take away casual content. so why cant the jelly people grant the hardcore players a little bit of content made with hardcore players in mind?
i can tell you why, because some people believe they are the center of the planet and everything has to be built around them.
the entitlement needs to go.

Bernie.8674:

SkylightMoon.1980:

People who complain about an event being too difficult for them and that they need to try too hard or coordinate are the worst type of people though. They arn’t comparable to people who ask for hardcore content. This is part of a bigger problem in MMO’s from what ive seen. Its self-entitled gamers.

By whose standards? Keep in mind that this is a game. You’re not contributing anything to society by excelling at it. Where do you draw the difficulty line? If you want harder games, there are plenty of them out there. ArenaNet has always targetted the more casual player. This isn’t a game design decision; it’s a business decision. Don’t you see the irony in calling other players self-entitled in a post where you’re effectively demanding that ArenaNet cater specifically to you?

SkylightMoon.1980:

Content like the Jungle Wurm was specifically made for hardcore groups. That means that yes you have to coordinate, not just smash your head on the keyboard with a bunch of random people.

Exactly. And how many players do that content regularly? I know of only one guild on my server that does it a couple of times a week. That’s pretty much my only option for ever seeing that content. Is that a good return on investment for ArenaNet?

SkylightMoon.1980:

We need to stop giving in to people who feel like they deserve everything and who don’t want to put any effort in for a reward.

You’re not putting in any effort that merits meaningful rewards; you’re screwing around in a game. If you want reward for effort then get a job where your contributions to society are rewarded meaningfully. Quit calling others self-entitled for not wanting their game to feel like a chore.

Well you must not play the game because people do the wurm regularily lol. Quite a few guilds and even community TS’s will do it. You sound like someone who got offended because you’re the type of person im talking about. Oh well. Chore? This is exactly what im talking about. You don’t have to do the event. Its hard for you, thats why you see it at a chore. Sorry, I guess hardcore content isnt for you :/

Theres really no reason to complain about Open World content. If the devs allow us to open our own overflows, it would work fine. This was datamined a few months ago, it was datamined as a guild feature. That would relieve all the stress of trying to do something difficult with pugs.

Shpongle.6025:

SkylightMoon.1980:

I figured the new world boss would be a mega-boss type scenario, unfortunately its not. I don’t understand why we can’t have organized group level difficulty. Anet has designed the perfect system for this with the multiple-tier event system that can cater to casual and hardcore alike.

A good example of the perfectly designed event was Escape from Lions arch. It has like 5 difficulties of tier completion. Lower to mid were for pugs and it was fine, then there was a high 1500 citizens saved(or 1200) which needed an organized group usually, and that was perfect for guilds.

I don’t see why this wasn’t done with silverwastes or dry top. All that really needs to be done is adding another tier that is the hardcore tier. I think thats actually a more efficient way of designing hardcore content, because its so easy to do. You could make any event have a hardcore level difficulty, if naturally it has a tier system to it.

Cause it sucks, dude!

Liadri to this day was the worst content ever made.

And this is coming from someone who got ALL Liadri achievements.

I disagree and im sure others would. Doing the Liadri achievements doesn’t make your opinion anymore valid. The mechanics were interesting, at least it had mechanics. The only thing I remember being very bad was the field of view because of the bubble we were inside of. I don’t think it was there the second time around tho.

silvermember.8941:

RoRo.8270:

We need more difficult instanced content 1-5 man, but we’ll keep getting zerg fest content

More like you need to find a game that suit your needs better, not every game can be every thing to everyone.

Wildstar tried to cater to the loud hard core players and found out within a few weeks that hardcore actually do not care for challenging content they just want the content that provides the best loot. the truth is the future is not with the “I m leet crowd”.

I mean you can keep fighting against reality but hard content is just a Fancy code word for best loot.

World of Warcraft has content that appeals to a broad spectrum of players. Well if you enjoy running around a static route with an invincible zerg where you can basically get carried good for you. You’re just a hamster on a treadmill