Guild Wars 2

So I never really understood this logic.

Why cater to casuals?

I have heard claims and claims that there is a larger casual base than a hardcore base…. but is this really true?

Now I might be wrong here, but I would imagine casuals are the people more likely to move from game to game after 1 month or so then a hardcore player.

So what I see Guild Wars 2 doing is:
Most casuals move on to other games in 1 month or so no matter what you add to the game. It is just their nature.

At the same time, hardcore players are alienated and leave.

So the outcome is that you are losing on both sides. Would it not be better to keep the hardcore fan-base, so you are at least winning on 1 side?

Maybe Im missing something here…. hmmmm

It depends on your definition of ‘casuals’ which varies to large degree. My definition doesn’t match yours at all nor do I have the same assumptions you do about ‘casuals’.
Same goes for ‘hardcore’.
Its relative and I’m sure this topic will soon be a defining casuals topic

I don’t think they are catering to casuals.

That being said, I would presume that Anet makes a ton of $ from casuals. They simply don’t have time to play as often and are more inclined to spend $ to keep up.

Because casuals are the main demographic in MMO’s today. A lot of the veteran MMO players are aging, and have families and careers.

I consider myself a casual player, but my definition is very different to yours. To me a casual player is one who can only play on an irregular schedule and only for an hour or two a day. This means that in things like raiding, or high level grinding content we normally can not keep up. I certainly don’t only play a game for a month, I start WoW back pre Burning Crusade (the first expansion) and only cancelled my subscription a week or so ago when I realised I had not been on for weeks as GW2 had fully taken over my gaming time.

Does GW2 just cater to casuals. I’m not sure, it suits my style of play, dailies can be done in less than an hour so I have a good chance to do them several times a week. I have only just got my first level 80 and still have a lot to do but I don’t feel that the game is leaving me behind, a legendary weapon still looks like it might be something worth working towards.

There is one big reason for a company to cater to the casuals, and that is money. The reason I can only play for an hour or so a day is that I have a job, but that also means that I have money to spend. Unfortunately, what I consider hardcore players are often on benefits for one reason or another which means they have the opportunity to spend a lot of time in game, but very little to spend on the gem store. I am not say that Anet do cater to casuals for this reason, but the reality is they are a company and as there is no subscription people buying gems is how they will fund all the updates that have been promised.

SallyStitches.4096:

Because casuals are the main demographic in MMO’s today. A lot of the veteran MMO players are aging, and have families and careers.

This is a huge part of it. Those of us that have careers and families simply can’t play several hours every day, and that prevented us from fully enjoying games like WoW that are designed at the end game to cater to their hardcore player base.

I think the truth of the matter is even with games like WoW the majority of the players don’t get to experience all the end game content, although a lot of them may actually set foot in it from time to time. One of the best features of GW2 to me is that if I have a few weeks where maybe I get an hour or two to play each night at best I am not so far behind I can’t play with friends who were able to play longer hours.

Dramen Maidria.1034:

SallyStitches.4096:

Because casuals are the main demographic in MMO’s today. A lot of the veteran MMO players are aging, and have families and careers.

This is a huge part of it. Those of us that have careers and families simply can’t play several hours every day, and that prevented us from fully enjoying games like WoW that are designed at the end game to cater to their hardcore player base.

I think the truth of the matter is even with games like WoW the majority of the players don’t get to experience all the end game content, although a lot of them may actually set foot in it from time to time. One of the best features of GW2 to me is that if I have a few weeks where maybe I get an hour or two to play each night at best I am not so far behind I can’t play with friends who were able to play longer hours.

I completely understand this. Im studying to become a materials engineer and working 30 hours a week but even i really want anet to throw us elite pver’s a bone or too.

There hasnt been anything since fractals, and fractals are a poor excuse at a traditional “endgame”.

I dont want to switch mmo’s to get elite endgame. I have been part of the GW’s world since the very beginning so many years ago.

I believe hardcore players are more likely to move on to a new game.

Hardcores are always looking for a challenge, and tend to spend more time logged in than casuals. Therefore, hardcores go after the hardest content, keep at it until they beat it, then look for more. Eventually they run out of content (except the “fluff” they don’t care about) and want more. Because no company can produce challenging content fast enough to keep them, they are more likely to move on to a new game to break fresh ground and find new challenges.

A casual player goes through content at a more leisurely pace, often never even touching the hardest content – how many WoW players have never committed to a raiding schedule, or even been on a raid? I’d wager a majority of their players ignore the hardest content, just like there are GW2 players who’ve never explored all the dungeon paths or completed the Gauntlet.

That’s the problem with complaints about Living Story updates being too short or too easy – for the most part, they were not designed for you. They were designed for casual players who log in on weekends, or play an hour or two in the evenings, not players who log in for ten hours a day.

Beyond that, casual players tend to have more disposable income, and are more willing to spend that income in the cash shop for items that are convenient or interesting.

Casuals are actually more likely to still be playing the same game 6 months, 12 months, 2 years, etc. down the line. They’re the ones that end up being the long-term bread and butter of a developer… the ones who are still spending money on in-game stores long after the flash and interest of launch has passed. They may only log in a few hours a week, but 100+ weeks out, they’re still logging in… they’re still buying mini sets and clothes off the cash shop, etc.

Hardcore players play in short, intense bursts… and are gone as soon as they achieve whatever goal (like obtaining a legendary) they’ve set for themselves. They’re less likely to rely on cash shop transactions beyond meeting initial needs early on (like buying gems to sell for an initial gold stash). They have a particular idea of what it means – to them – to “beat” the game, and once that is accomplished, they’re gone. They’re also unlikely to be lured back into playing outside of major expansions that they again come back to “beat” and then are gone.

Hardcore players are also the ones least likely to take a long view of whatever changes to the game the dev enacts. They’re the ones most likely to pack up their toys and go home in a rage over anything they perceive as impacting their (very short-term) goal of “beating” the game, regardless of whether the change is good for the longevity of the game. They’re not concerned with whether that change is necessary to keep the game relevant in a year… they’re concerned with whether it means it might take them another 2 hours to “beat” the game.

This is why MMOs cater to the casuals… because the casuals’ source of enjoyment isn’t heavily based on “winning fast” and moving on to something else they can “beat”.

Diviner.7405:

So I never really understood this logic.

Why cater to casuals?

I have heard claims and claims that there is a larger casual base than a hardcore base…. but is this really true?

Now I might be wrong here, but I would imagine casuals are the people more likely to move from game to game after 1 month or so then a hardcore player.

So what I see Guild Wars 2 doing is:
Most casuals move on to other games in 1 month or so no matter what you add to the game. It is just their nature.

At the same time, hardcore players are alienated and leave.

So the outcome is that you are losing on both sides. Would it not be better to keep the hardcore fan-base, so you are at least winning on 1 side?

Maybe Im missing something here…. hmmmm

Well…yes (assuming you were really looking for answer)…you have. You assume by your own admission that casuals move on after a month or so no matter what, although you admit that you might be wrong. Then you base your entire argument on that assumption. My hunch is that your observed sample of players is no better than mine and vice versa. Unless you have some empirical evidence that clearly demonstrates that your assumption is correct, then I view it with some skepticism.

And if you remove the assumption that casuals move on quickly, then the question would really be “why not provide content to attract and retain casuals?” I feel pretty confident in saying that the combined segments of hard core and casual players results in a bigger customer base than either segment alone. Even if you allow for the disillusioned players in both groups that move on, the combined segments are still likely to be larger than either group alone. Mind you, I have no data to support this but as you look at the biggest MMO performers, most try and provide content for both groups. That tells me that their marketing research shows good profit potential through aggregation of the two segments rather than pursuing one to the exclusion of the other.

To recognize the concern of the OP, though, it is a difficult challenge to try and provide meaningful experience to both groups. One only has to visit the forums of other MMOs to see that this argument is not unique to GW2. As a casual, it is frustrating to me when all of the development focus seems to be toward hard core players and I can only imagine that it is equally frustrating to hard core players if new content seems to focus only on the other half. Finding and maintaining that balance seems to be the holy grail of MMO marketing.

I don’t think being a casual player means game hopping. I have played MMOs for a very long time dating back to the original Ultima Online, well MUDs if you count those. I used to spend a lot of time playing up until 2008 when I got burned out on WoW and I had other priorities in life. GW2 is the first MMO I have played since then. I don’t play sometimes for 4 or 5 days depending on what is going on. I never schedule game time but play when it fits in. That doesn’t mean I’m going to just start playing a different game during that time. I enjoy the game and will continue to play until I no longer enjoy it.

When I used to play a lot, specifically WoW, I almost felt like I had to make time to play and I often scheduled things around that. I looked back at one point and realized the time I had invested in it was kind of lost time. I wasn’t having much fun anymore and there were other things in life I had missed out on. I can’t and won’t do that again. I have a lot more going on outside of a game that I am responsible for and that I enjoy. I don’t see where that means I’m going to switch to another game in a month. I’ve been playing over 4 months as it is. The good thing about GW2 is I can avoid the login screen as often as I want and I don’t really feel like I’m falling behind aside from some of the LS stuff but since gaming isn’t a priority it doesn’t bother me.

I don’t see how casual play means losing interest and going on to some other game in a month. In fact it has been the opposite for me because GW2 works well with keeping my interest in the small amount of time I play.

Anet is aiming for the 65% demographic that doesn’t want to work hard to feel mastery in the game. Not only is it the largest demographic, it’s also the one that will most likely spend the most money per individual. You may want to look into the research done by Dr. Scott Rigby and Troy Skinner .

Diviner.7405:

So I never really understood this logic.

Why cater to casuals?

I have heard claims and claims that there is a larger casual base than a hardcore base…. but is this really true?

Now I might be wrong here, but I would imagine casuals are the people more likely to move from game to game after 1 month or so then a hardcore player.

So what I see Guild Wars 2 doing is:
Most casuals move on to other games in 1 month or so no matter what you add to the game. It is just their nature.

At the same time, hardcore players are alienated and leave.

So the outcome is that you are losing on both sides. Would it not be better to keep the hardcore fan-base, so you are at least winning on 1 side?

Maybe Im missing something here…. hmmmm

Yes, you’re missing something. You’re making assumptions with no facts to base them on.

Because hardcore isn’t dumb enough to spend $10 for a flute or $5 for a minipet. <—- of course this will be deleted because stating the obvious isn’t allowed on this forum

For a cash shop to pay the bills you need a lot of players since only a relatively small percentage will buy items for cash.

So unless the “hardcore” is willing to step up with their wallets then more the merrier and that means casual players.

Cause they are a lot – and their wallet are full and easy to tempt with Cash Shop conveniences.

where are my alt tokens?

Casual players are more likely to spend money on “stuff” on the gem store, and are also more likely to buy gold instead of getting it themselves. Unlike some people, I don’t actually see anything wrong with this, and it keeps the servers running so…

Nuka Cola.8520:

Because hardcore isn’t dumb enough to spend $10 for a flute or $5 for a minipet. <—- of course this will be deleted because stating the obvious isn’t allowed on this forum

Besides being rude, your comment has no basis in reality. I guess by your standards, that means your not hardcore.

Nuka Cola.8520:

Because hardcore isn’t dumb enough to spend $10 for a flute or $5 for a minipet. <—- of course this will be deleted because stating the obvious isn’t allowed on this forum

Wow… ten months of posts of you talking about how garbage the game is, yet here you are. And yet you think someone who has the financial ability to spend $5 on something they want and enjoy, is dumb?

‘You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.’

IndigoSundown.5419:

Diviner.7405:

So I never really understood this logic.

Why cater to casuals?

I have heard claims and claims that there is a larger casual base than a hardcore base…. but is this really true?

Now I might be wrong here, but I would imagine casuals are the people more likely to move from game to game after 1 month or so then a hardcore player.

So what I see Guild Wars 2 doing is:
Most casuals move on to other games in 1 month or so no matter what you add to the game. It is just their nature.

At the same time, hardcore players are alienated and leave.

So the outcome is that you are losing on both sides. Would it not be better to keep the hardcore fan-base, so you are at least winning on 1 side?

Maybe Im missing something here…. hmmmm

Yes, you’re missing something. You’re making assumptions with no facts to base them on.

My assumptions are based on my years of gaming and stuff posted in this very forum. While these could not be facts necessarily, they are merely observations that I have seen demonstrated which seem to be aligned with the truth.

I could say that you have no facts to disprove my assumptions, but that may be a little convenient for me, so I will try not to take that cope out, but we will see.

I have seen the complete opposite. My friends who where “hardcore” finished all content available in a few weeks, and left never to return. I consider myself a “casual” player, and I am still here, still playing with my main and still have story and content to do. I am the one who spends money in the gem store, not my “hardcore” friends.

DarcShriek.5829:

Nuka Cola.8520:

Because hardcore isn’t dumb enough to spend $10 for a flute or $5 for a minipet. <—- of course this will be deleted because stating the obvious isn’t allowed on this forum

Besides being rude, your comment has no basis in reality. I guess by your standards, that means your not hardcore.

rude or not that’s the reality here.

While “hardcore” player may complain more that the content is too easy, those complaints might also still be better for developers than “casual” complaining about content they will never experience. Hardcore player will experience all content in either case. The good ’ol problem is always about finding a healthy balance between both types of content.

Personally, I have never spent nor do I plan to spend money in the cashshop. I count myself to a strange form of player type because one day I like playing hours long and one moment to another I lose motivation/fun and log-off in the middle of whatever I was doing. A cat-like behavior or something like that lol. And I’m really only interested in leveling up, unless there’s really an item that peaks my interest and where the farm-time feels like actually progressing towards the goal. Instead of, for example, games where you quest/grind and grind, but don’t feel much of a progress due to the “insane” amount of exp. required to level up (not the case in GW2, imho!)

Nuka Cola.8520:

DarcShriek.5829:

Nuka Cola.8520:

Because hardcore isn’t dumb enough to spend $10 for a flute or $5 for a minipet. <—- of course this will be deleted because stating the obvious isn’t allowed on this forum

Besides being rude, your comment has no basis in reality. I guess by your standards, that means your not hardcore.

rude or not that’s the reality here.

So you admit your not a hardcore gamer?

Diviner.7405:

My assumptions are based on my years of gaming and stuff posted in this very forum. While these could not be facts necessarily, they are merely observations that I have seen demonstrated which seem to be aligned with the truth.

I could say that you have no facts to disprove my assumptions, but that may be a little convenient for me, so I will try not to take that cope out, but we will see.

I think you might be missing the point of what people are saying. I, for one, am not saying that you are absolutely wrong. I merely said that I was skeptical. You have no proof and your observations over the years are different than my observations. And of course, I have no evidence either. So, in terms of assumptions, both of us are kind of in the same place. What I believe, though, is that MMO marketing departments have enough sophistication to tease out the profit potential in various market segments. If the industry state and approach today provides any insight into that analysis, it would seem that there must be some perceived profit potential there in keeping both segments engaged.

And so, at least to me, that answers the question “why cater to casuals?”

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

I have seen the complete opposite. My friends who where “hardcore” finished all content available in a few weeks, and left never to return. I consider myself a “casual” player, and I am still here, still playing with my main and still have story and content to do. I am the one who spends money in the gem store, not my “hardcore” friends.

Yea, I’m afraid people may confuse locusts with hardcore players. The type that just consumes content as a sort of rat race and then leave to the next crop. I wouldn’t care much for keeping those, except to capture the burst in sales when an expansion is released.

Hardcore players are the type to theorycraft, explore the game’s intricacies and provide input on how to make it better as well as participating in competitive aspects.

It’s always a false dichotomy to just say there are casuals and hardcore players, of course.

Airala.8629:

Nuka Cola.8520:

Because hardcore isn’t dumb enough to spend $10 for a flute or $5 for a minipet. <—- of course this will be deleted because stating the obvious isn’t allowed on this forum

Wow… ten months of posts of you talking about how garbage the game is, yet here you are. And yet you think someone who has the financial ability to spend $5 on something they want and enjoy, is dumb?

‘You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.’

and you want me to be positive when the only content anet been adding for months is aimed at people that play 2h per week? How exactly you want to be positive about nerfs and their crappy LS thingy as their main focus the only new content provided every patch? If you seriously enjoy their juicy nerfs/dat LS or tell yourself ‘its great content’ then good for you, enjoy. I’m looking for something more complicated than break pinatas and talk to 15 pcs for a 15 points achievement, sorry to disappoint.

As a hardcore player and farmer…

I used to spend a lot of real $ on this game. I topped off at $1000 and that was at January or so.

But ever since I accumulated a lot of wealth through in-game transactions (and tremendous luck), I have had very little reason to buy gems with real $.

I assume that’s the case with other farmers who can acquire items more efficiently through game gold than real $

DarcShriek.5829:

Nuka Cola.8520:

DarcShriek.5829:

Nuka Cola.8520:

Because hardcore isn’t dumb enough to spend $10 for a flute or $5 for a minipet. <—- of course this will be deleted because stating the obvious isn’t allowed on this forum

Besides being rude, your comment has no basis in reality. I guess by your standards, that means your not hardcore.

rude or not that’s the reality here.

So you admit your not a hardcore gamer?

there’s nothing to admit or prove anything to a random guy on a forum, think what you want.

http://www.washingtoninteractivenetwork.org/blog/winatgdc-inside-your-mind-bro/

WINatGDC – Inside Your Mind, Bro
BY: Julian
DATE POSTED: March 29, 2013

Before walking into the Player Pyschology: Putting Motivational Principles to Work session, I thought about what I wanted out of video games. Sometimes I want to go fast. Sometimes, I want to problem-solve. And I can’t leave out wanting to blow things up, on occassion. What is it that keeps me coming back for more? Why do certain games offer much more of a satisfying experience than others? This is what discovered…

Scott Rigby [Immersyve], seen to your left, opened up the talk with a focus on testing. Game developers should test fun just as much as they have it. Gathering data on the player experience and gauging the level of “fun” is important. Oh, and actually use the data by applying it to further development, since big data [buzz word!] is nothing without a purpose. I think we can all agree that it’s always going to be fun to play our own game, so Rigby urges devs to “be discreminating and a bit skeptical” when it comes to testing.

Rigby started to dig deeper in the gamer mind and explained self-determination theory. It’s built upon three principles: Mastery [being really good at things], Relatedness [having things matter to you], and Autonomy [doing things on your own]. These are the things that get you addicted to your favorite game. Applying these concepts to games as a developer, you can ensure that your players keep playing. And playing.

Next to take the stage was Troy Skinner [WB Games]. He broke down the differences between semi-successful games [$] and smash-hit-gotta-play games [$$$]. Turns out, it’s all about who you target. Think of gamers in a spetrum; As Skinner puts it, on one side you have “the connoissuer.” This gamer is into all genres, plays video games as a hobby, and is hungry for tips and tricks. On the other side, you have “the bro gamer.” This gamer is more casual, plays video games for entertainment, and needs to be quickly competent. Why do bros matter? Well, they make up 65% of the market and are key to the smash-hit-gotta-play games. I know, it’s difficult to relate to the person on the opposite side of the spectrum, but it may lead to a succesful game. Target both audeinces and let your “connoiseurs” do the leg work of passing the game onto the “bros.”

Skinner wrapped up with every player’s dream: “to explode enemies with your fist.” There seems to be something utterly satsifying about this. And it lies in user feedback. It’s what Skinner calls “the secret sauce.” If you acknowledge your players for doing something awesome [and also some average things], they will love it and come back for more. If you’ve played Call of Duty, you know what I’m talking about. The first time I played, I felt like reloading earned me an accolade. Oh wait, it actually did!

It’s not our fault most hardcore players have no jobs or responsibilities. Let them game hop. Most hardcore players are negative and drag down the community.

Draconus.9786:

It’s not our fault most hardcore players have no jobs or responsibilities. Let them game hop. Most hardcore players are negative and drag down the community.

and the casuals would be happy even if from now on the only added content was My Little Pony so your point?

Nuka Cola.8520:

Draconus.9786:

It’s not our fault most hardcore players have no jobs or responsibilities. Let them game hop. Most hardcore players are negative and drag down the community.

and the casuals would be happy even if from now on the only added content was My Little Pony so your point?

I’d prefer My Little Nuke Cola.

Nuka Cola.8520:

and you want me to be positive when the only content anet been adding for months is aimed at people that play 2h per week? How exactly you want to be positive about nerfs and their crappy LS thingy as their main focus the only new content provided every patch? If you seriously enjoy their juicy nerfs/dat LS or tell yourself ‘its great content’ then good for you, enjoy. I’m looking for something more complicated than break pinatas and talk to 15 pcs for a 15 points achievement, sorry to disappoint.

Actually, I don’t “want” you to do anything. I simply find it curious that you’re insulting players who choose to buy something in the cash shop, which you apparently feel is a waste of money… but instead of spending your TIME playing a different game you enjoy, you waste it making 46 pages worth of posts – complaining – for the last 10 months.

It just seems a bit… strange to me.

I mean, I don’t know about you, but $5 for a mini represents about 10 minutes of my TIME in the real world… how much TIME have you spent making hundreds of QQ’ing posts about a game you’ve been unhappy with for nearly a year?

Football video games is the best example of cater to casual gamers. They may not be big video game players but they are big football fans so they will only buy one type of game. This makes football gaming the biggest in the world. So its not about just the ppl who are casual gamers its about coving ppl who are “hardcore” in other things that games can cover.

Airala.8629:

Nuka Cola.8520:

and you want me to be positive when the only content anet been adding for months is aimed at people that play 2h per week? How exactly you want to be positive about nerfs and their crappy LS thingy as their main focus the only new content provided every patch? If you seriously enjoy their juicy nerfs/dat LS or tell yourself ‘its great content’ then good for you, enjoy. I’m looking for something more complicated than break pinatas and talk to 15 pcs for a 15 points achievement, sorry to disappoint.

Actually, I don’t “want” you to do anything. I simply find it curious that you’re insulting players who choose to buy something in the cash shop, which you apparently feel is a waste of money… but instead of spending your TIME playing a different game you enjoy, you waste it making 46 pages worth of posts – complaining – for the last 10 months.

It just seems a bit… strange to me.

I mean, I don’t know about you, but $5 for a mini represents about 10 minutes of my TIME in the real world… how much TIME have you spent making hundreds of QQ’ing posts about a game you’ve been unhappy with for nearly a year?

Over 9000 of course.

Simple. Because of the $$$

Diviner.7405:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Diviner.7405:

So I never really understood this logic.

Why cater to casuals?

I have heard claims and claims that there is a larger casual base than a hardcore base…. but is this really true?

Now I might be wrong here, but I would imagine casuals are the people more likely to move from game to game after 1 month or so then a hardcore player.

So what I see Guild Wars 2 doing is:
Most casuals move on to other games in 1 month or so no matter what you add to the game. It is just their nature.

At the same time, hardcore players are alienated and leave.

So the outcome is that you are losing on both sides. Would it not be better to keep the hardcore fan-base, so you are at least winning on 1 side?

Maybe Im missing something here…. hmmmm

Yes, you’re missing something. You’re making assumptions with no facts to base them on.

My assumptions are based on my years of gaming and stuff posted in this very forum. While these could not be facts necessarily, they are merely observations that I have seen demonstrated which seem to be aligned with the truth.

I could say that you have no facts to disprove my assumptions, but that may be a little convenient for me, so I will try not to take that cope out, but we will see.

If your assumptions are correct, why do most MMO developers cater to a demographic that you say leaves after a month? Perhaps they know something you don’t?

sad fact is i im a casual dont have the time like i used too when i was hardcore so since i make more money now im more likely to buy gems and convert to gold then i did when i was hardcore. i tend to play game longer then i did then. been a year and i just got world completion and im no where finished with this game. when i was hardcore i finished games within 3 months top and moved on. so now that im a casual gamer games that get me get a lot more money then games when i was hardcore. they will probably get my money for another year or so before i move on depending on factors(exspansion or not or if i get sick of it earlier etc etc etc)

Diviner.7405:

So I never really understood this logic.

Why cater to casuals?

I have heard claims and claims that there is a larger casual base than a hardcore base…. but is this really true?

Now I might be wrong here, but I would imagine casuals are the people more likely to move from game to game after 1 month or so then a hardcore player.

So what I see Guild Wars 2 doing is:
Most casuals move on to other games in 1 month or so no matter what you add to the game. It is just their nature.

At the same time, hardcore players are alienated and leave.

So the outcome is that you are losing on both sides. Would it not be better to keep the hardcore fan-base, so you are at least winning on 1 side?

Maybe Im missing something here…. hmmmm

Because NCSoft already has WS for the rest of us

Casuals spend the most $ on gems because they having paying jobs.

Hardcore players or players who put the hours in use gold to buy gems.

Without casuals no GW2.

If anything casual players are more likely to stick with a game, sometimes until they’re forced to give it up.

I used to work in a video game store and I saw this a lot. The hardcore gamers would be in week after week trading in games they’d had for a month or a week or even 2 days because they’d either finished them or lost interest and wanted something else. The casual gamers were the ones coming in wondering why they couldn’t get the latest releases on their PS2 and why we didn’t still stock expansion packs for Sims 1.

For a lot of offline single-release games that a big problem because those casual players are less likely to buy a sequel or expansion pack. But for online games, especially now microtransations are a thing and can be promoted in-game it’s perfect. Because those causal players are less likely to be drawn away to other games, or even know about them, and whilst they might not be persuaded to spend £40 on an expansion pack they can easily be persuaded to spend £4 this week and £6 next week on a few cool items in-game.

Diviner.7405:

Why cater to casuals?

If you consider casuals the players who play to have fun, and casuals the players who play 10 hours per day in order to show “dedication and effort” (aka, grind), it’s obvious.

“Casuals” are the players who want to play Guild Wars 2. They are the loyal fanbase, who could be playing anything else but keep to GW2 because they like it. They are the least likely to move to another MMORPG, because they like this one.

The “grinders”, in other hand, don’t care about the game – they care about the shinies. Pretty much like the MMO locusts who hop from MMO to MMO until they suck it try and then leave to grind in the next thing, the grinders will leave the game as soon as they have grinded everything and a new grind-based game appears in the horizon. ArenaNet is trying to keep the grinders around by placing carrot after carrot in front of them – see the slow introduction of Ascended gear – but that’s because the designers know what’s keeping the grinders here isn’t the actual game of GW2, rather the grind. If the grinders get Ascended weapons before ArenaNet releases the next carrot, and if the next wave of MMORPGs offer enough grind-based content, well, bye bye “hardcore players”.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Diviner.7405:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Diviner.7405:

So I never really understood this logic.

Why cater to casuals?

I have heard claims and claims that there is a larger casual base than a hardcore base…. but is this really true?

Now I might be wrong here, but I would imagine casuals are the people more likely to move from game to game after 1 month or so then a hardcore player.

So what I see Guild Wars 2 doing is:
Most casuals move on to other games in 1 month or so no matter what you add to the game. It is just their nature.

At the same time, hardcore players are alienated and leave.

So the outcome is that you are losing on both sides. Would it not be better to keep the hardcore fan-base, so you are at least winning on 1 side?

Maybe Im missing something here…. hmmmm

Yes, you’re missing something. You’re making assumptions with no facts to base them on.

My assumptions are based on my years of gaming and stuff posted in this very forum. While these could not be facts necessarily, they are merely observations that I have seen demonstrated which seem to be aligned with the truth.

I could say that you have no facts to disprove my assumptions, but that may be a little convenient for me, so I will try not to take that cope out, but we will see.

If your assumptions are correct, why do most MMO developers cater to a demographic that you say leaves after a month? Perhaps they know something you don’t?

Why are most MMOs struggling and/or shutting down relatively quickly, or going free-to-play and attempting to draw in more causal players?

Danikat.8537:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Diviner.7405:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Diviner.7405:

So I never really understood this logic.

Why cater to casuals?

I have heard claims and claims that there is a larger casual base than a hardcore base…. but is this really true?

Now I might be wrong here, but I would imagine casuals are the people more likely to move from game to game after 1 month or so then a hardcore player.

So what I see Guild Wars 2 doing is:
Most casuals move on to other games in 1 month or so no matter what you add to the game. It is just their nature.

At the same time, hardcore players are alienated and leave.

So the outcome is that you are losing on both sides. Would it not be better to keep the hardcore fan-base, so you are at least winning on 1 side?

Maybe Im missing something here…. hmmmm

Yes, you’re missing something. You’re making assumptions with no facts to base them on.

My assumptions are based on my years of gaming and stuff posted in this very forum. While these could not be facts necessarily, they are merely observations that I have seen demonstrated which seem to be aligned with the truth.

I could say that you have no facts to disprove my assumptions, but that may be a little convenient for me, so I will try not to take that cope out, but we will see.

If your assumptions are correct, why do most MMO developers cater to a demographic that you say leaves after a month? Perhaps they know something you don’t?

Why are most MMOs struggling and/or shutting down relatively quickly, or going free-to-play and attempting to draw in more causal players?

Because they cater to casuals and there game dumbs down so much that all the hardcore players leave (there playerbase) then when no ones left all they try to do is get in a few more $$ before the game dies by adding casual stuff.

Most of the hardcore players leave within a month or two after release. They are burnt out and bored because they rushed through everything. Some will make it their new home but the majority of them is long gone. Probably have burnt through 2 or 3 MMOs since then.

People who play more casually are less likely to get bored or run out of things and may enjoy buying some fluff at the gemstore. It’s not who plays the most but who pays the most that matters.

Danikat.8537:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Diviner.7405:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Diviner.7405:

So I never really understood this logic.

Why cater to casuals?

I have heard claims and claims that there is a larger casual base than a hardcore base…. but is this really true?

Now I might be wrong here, but I would imagine casuals are the people more likely to move from game to game after 1 month or so then a hardcore player.

So what I see Guild Wars 2 doing is:
Most casuals move on to other games in 1 month or so no matter what you add to the game. It is just their nature.

At the same time, hardcore players are alienated and leave.

So the outcome is that you are losing on both sides. Would it not be better to keep the hardcore fan-base, so you are at least winning on 1 side?

Maybe Im missing something here…. hmmmm

Yes, you’re missing something. You’re making assumptions with no facts to base them on.

My assumptions are based on my years of gaming and stuff posted in this very forum. While these could not be facts necessarily, they are merely observations that I have seen demonstrated which seem to be aligned with the truth.

I could say that you have no facts to disprove my assumptions, but that may be a little convenient for me, so I will try not to take that cope out, but we will see.

If your assumptions are correct, why do most MMO developers cater to a demographic that you say leaves after a month? Perhaps they know something you don’t?

Why are most MMOs struggling and/or shutting down relatively quickly, or going free-to-play and attempting to draw in more causal players?

More importantly, why are so many MMOs assuming people are going to stop playing a game they’ve been playing and paying into for years to play the new, shiny, and untried game which may not be any good?

I know a fair number of people who would try games for a couple months, then go back to what was the most familiar or where they had been spending their time. For MMOs it was EverQuest or WoW. Why? Because that’s where their stuff is and they worked SO hard to earn it, it feels like a waste to cut the cord.

Meglobob.8620:

Casuals spend the most $ on gems because they having paying jobs.

Hardcore players or players who put the hours in use gold to buy gems.

Without casuals no GW2.

how could this be true if the game sold 3.5 mil? where did that money went to?

Danikat.8537:

Why are most MMOs struggling and/or shutting down relatively quickly, or going free-to-play and attempting to draw in more causal players?

Because they tried to be a better WoW than WoW.