Guild Wars 2

The sudden shift to the story direction that ArenaNet took isn’t really good at all. Guild Wars 2 was unique because it was focused on the Elder Dragons as main antagonists and each expansion was supposed to be based on one of them but for some reason they gave up on that with living world season 3 and changed it to other random things making it impossible to kill another dragon in next expansion which is a turndown. We waited for so long to find out which Elder Dragon we will fight next only for them to change their mind and give up on the unique story it had.

Maybe because killing elder dragons gets boring and repetitious, when you get right down to it. They are more like an impersonal force of nature than a thinking, scheming, creature. There’s only so many ways you can kill a force of nature and not have the plot be straight line story with no twists and turns, as well as the ridiculousness of tiny humans with their tiny weapons killing a huge dragon filled with magic. With elder dragons it’s difficult to have an interesting plot, unless you drag in a bunch of outside story lines to try to add complexity [looks sideways Caudecus and the Gods story lines that have popped up recently]. Just think how more interesting the game’s story would have been if after we killed Zhaitan we decided to free Elona from the rule of Palawa Joko.

What is so unique about killing dragons because they are the main antagonist? They finnaly going back to story telling about tyria instead of this “we kill dragons cause they big meanies who lay around”.

Im ok with that, Anet for me dropped the ball really badly with the HOT story line.

As Sylvari and Norn are my favorite races i thought it was a chance to see more into the culture of them ( sylvari espeically) since this is the elder dragon that created them. See the Pale Tree come back being that she is my favorite NPC.

Also HOT really hurt me being Eir, Caithe are my 2nd and 3rd favorites. No spoilers

I also liked Trehearne, it wasnt up there but i liked his character for the role he brought to the story as a Sylvari chasing his Wild Hunt and all the studying he did, explaining him as a Scholar.

GW itself has a great back story. GW2 the original story line with Zhaitan was better then average though i think it would of left a better taste in our mouths had we actually got to fight Zhaitan after blowing up 1/2 its body. Like we have to finish the job on the beach.

With all that rambling, HOT pooped the bed hard. Lack of character story lines, Lack of interest for whats going on, alot of Dues EX-Machina , character break downs, ( characters who did things they would of never done based of the GW2 story line, fighting ZHaitan) and just a lack of actual story to go threw.

LS didnt help either. Here we have the most powerful beings known to all beings. The dragons who have defeated all who have crossed them and Tami made a machine that could kill 2 at once.

Its not bad enough that the human gods are much stronger then us, or the fact that 1 of the new maps with the volcano left clues of far more advanced civilizations then ours losing to the dragons.

I mean think it would be a good change of pace so they can refocus and actually make fighting epic monsters epic again.

“each expansion was supposed to be based on one of them”
I don’t remember anyone saying this, other then perhaps players assuming it.

“only for them to change their mind and give up on the unique story it had”
What makes you think they changed their minds rather than this was planned out?

p.s. Why do I always hear people say we killed two elder dragons with a machine. We obviously just made them fall asleep. Even the trailer said if another dragon dies, we all die. During the story, Taimi also made a big deal showing us before the last fight even began that if another dragon dies then Tyria goes splat.

Doflamingo.6957:

The sudden shift to the story direction that ArenaNet took isn’t really good at all. Guild Wars 2 was unique because it was focused on the Elder Dragons as main antagonists and each expansion was supposed to be based on one of them but for some reason they gave up on that with living world season 3 and changed it to other random things making it impossible to kill another dragon in next expansion which is a turndown. We waited for so long to find out which Elder Dragon we will fight next only for them to change their mind and give up on the unique story it had.

Simply put, they realised that the story arch:

- elder dragon appears
- random filler stuff
- elder dragon gets beaten
- start from step 1

gets quite repetative. In fact most of the filler stuff was what was more interesting than the actual fight against the dragons.

Now fill in some tie ins to the way better storylines and lore of Guild Wars 1 and you have a solution how to liven up the series story. Longterm this gives them more flexibility as to how to design the story but will make it harder to keep a congruent narrative.

I don’t agree. Elder dragons were getting pretty stale. As forces of nature, they were too impersonal to hold peoples’ interest. Shifting the story towards the gods is a step in the right direction.

Although, I did dislike chapter 5. It was just botched, imo.

Um.. Anet still is going after Elder Dragons but they are leaving that for big expansions while they touch on other and very interesting subjects in Living World seasons.

cause they looked like big gifs with huge health pool…..

to static, to redundanct, and very limited freedom it would be a pain to code a decent mob or it would result in awfull combat.

just look what they have done to tekywaltor whatever is the undead dragon minion general name, you have trampolines to fight…. and move arround, the most idiotic combat stuff ever seen in a mmo…

I bet that they had this planned since the beginning of Guild Wars 2.

All this “changing of plans” is merely how it feels to the player.

I don’t mind the shift away from them, interesting as “Dragons as forces of nature” could have been. They were just used as generic bosses anyhow.

What annoys me is just how utterly random the newly introduced boss is. And how he shows up and all. It’s all so… yeah. Might as well be anyone else.

I like the shift, I feel like it will open a lot more avenues for the Devs to build down, and create more lore and interesting stories. I have a very good feeling about the expansion, and what it will bring to us.

Can’t wait!

Yes it’s unique. Rift, Skyrim, Dragon Age were all different because their dragons weren’t ELDER dragons. Seriously I’m so sick of dragons now, I wouldn’t care if I ever played another game with dragons.

One of the most maddening tasks is trying to please everyone. It can’t be done. But we try. Anet is trying to. All the moving parts in this game, all the different facets wanting their attention. They are dealing with a living, breathing world. Most mmo’s are sandboxes, or theme parks. Anet broke that mold. They dumped the trinity, they added underwater battles, jumping puzzles, gliding. We have more means of transportation then any game I have played. We can even send gifts to eachother through the BLTC. Remember the attack on LA? I have played mmo’s since 2003 and I have never seen a braver step then destroying a city, and rebuilding it. That battle felt so real, the feels after seeing smoldering ruins.

My point is this, we may not be happy with every single step, or change, or update. But we can have a little faith and let things unfold. We have a new update coming, a season finale. Then an expansion. Fighting Dragons is fun, but we have the possibility of being caught in a battle of the gods. “My light was dim, they’ll notice me now!” Or words to that effect. I don’t know about you, but being thrown into a war of that magnitude… BRING IT ON!! We faced one god in gw1, now imagine all 6. That would be amazing and give them stories to unfold, imagine the divide in the citizens religous beliefs. Look at Balth revealing himself, Kas fell to her knees, Jory drew her sword. Even they chose opposite sides of that fight. That is how I hope the expansion goes. We’ll see.

Evon Skyfyre.9673:

They are dealing with a living, breathing world.

They dialed that waaaay back during season 1 and probably completely scrapped with season 2. We are theme park now.

Villains like Scarlet and Caudecus are much more interesting than the Elder Dragons. Because the dragons are giant forces of nature, they lack personality.

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Evon Skyfyre.9673:

They are dealing with a living, breathing world.

They dialed that waaaay back during season 1 and probably completely scrapped with season 2. We are theme park now.

They at least tried, most games reinvent eachother, new mmos are still rehashing medieval themes.. zzzzzzz Boring. We have portals, Golems, the age of science, not just alchemy, there is even talk of expanding gliding with more abilities to attack from the air. I love going to BS Fenn for just that reason. All we can do is wait. I for one am sick of starting over. Why do you think people still play WOW? Because starting over is annoying. The new update isn’t even out and people are complaining.

Paitience…

Lahmia.2193:

Villains like Scarlet and Caudecus are much more interesting than the Elder Dragons. Because the dragons are giant forces of nature, they lack personality.

Agreed, I really hope for another if not Scarlet herself! A stroke of the pen brings all to life again!

It doesn’t matter in the end whether the focus is a dragon or a god. If the writing is going to be weak, then the target makes no difference.

They had an opportunity with the last dragon, but shifted the focus on just destroying it. It seems as though this might end up following the same route.

Carighan.6758:

I don’t mind the shift away from them, interesting as “Dragons as forces of nature” could have been. They were just used as generic bosses anyhow.

What annoys me is just how utterly random the newly introduced boss is. And how he shows up and all. It’s all so… yeah. Might as well be anyone else.

The whole LS3 was building up Lazrus as the antagonist, and everyone expected a plot twist at the end. But using one of the Human Gods introduces 2 new sub plots that couldn’t happen without direct references to them…. 1. It reinforces their vulnerability as Mist Walkers against the Dragons, and Balth’s motivations are one of shrouded desperation. 2. Theres now a 3rd contender in the scenario, and this is ramping up to change the war into a battle of Juggernauts. The heroes now have to juggle 3 problems…. the overt threat of Dragon minions, the fractured political state of Tyria, and now a second super natural force, with a total disregard for collateral damage.

If they had repeated the scenario of Nightfall, using the players as Agents to the God’s war, we would have the exact same plot line as LS3, but with way more contrivances to explain why anyone in Tyria would actually go along with the God’s plans. The raids and dungeons also house a lot of extended plot; and one constant reoccurring theme is mortals achieving godhood through massive infusions of magical energy.

But there is one major focal point of mythos that has to be addressed, yet has been largely hand waved up until this point….. the Mists itself. Despite never being mentioned directly in story, the Mist wars and multiverse theory is now an integral element to the Dragon wars ever since it was introduced via Omadd’s machine. The dragons powers are bound to the physical realm of Tyria; yet we know for a fact that Mist walkers easily traverse between these realms. Thats a massive plot hole if you ignore the Mist Wars, because it would otherwise be the most direct solution to the Elder dragons…. a place to evacuate to, and theoretically infinite resources to wage war against them. The only things preventing this is our inability to navigate its metaphysical design with any sort of reliability, and the constant threat of invading forces from the borderlands.

So no… Balth as an antagonist is not “random”. The inclusion of the Mist walkers were inevitable the moment the metaphysical nature of Tyria was brought into the main story. The fact that they’re addressing it now is mostly to prevent the story from getting too chaotic before they can tie some of these threads together. Its also why they knocked out 2 Elder dragons to buy the story time, ended Caudicus, and put Logan in charge of the Pact….. there are too many loose ends in the story right now to generate the plot focus they need for a better story experience.

This might not seem obvious to most…. but look back at High Fantasy movies mimicking the structure of Lord of the Rings. Or even compare Peter Jackson’s Hobbit to the older Animated versions. Lord of the Rings is 3 interwoven story threads (and I don’t mean story arcs), comprised of multiple plot threads, each on a different scale. The Hobbit is one story thread made from 3 repeating plot threads. The thing to take away from this is Tolkenesqe stories can easily balloon out of control if you don’t know how to keep the plot threads personal, but well connected. That was a big problem with GW2’s personal story…. events escalated rapidly, but the various plot threads were not tied together well. Its also what happened to the Hobbit movie, as elements were introduced and discarded abruptly; resulting in things being utterly confusing at best, and completely unresolved at worst. Heart of Thorns tried to reset the board by nullifying the Pact….. but Mordremoth wasn’t a compelling villain for a more narrowed story focus, as him putting too much focus on the heroes would be utterly overbearing. Its basically the Mount Doom ark of LotR once you realize HOT Map Metas and the HOT personal story are actually divergent. Its also why the story thread told from the perspective of the map meta is much stronger, because salvaging a shattered army and bringing it to bear against the heart of the enemy for a rematch, is exactly the type of underdog story most people find compelling.

With the way they’re trying to steer events, the expansion is clearly trying to shoot for a more focused approach to story telling, and sort out the problems of who is in main roles and who are in supporting roles. The pact is clearly going to be shifted into a Supporting role, and the heroes are clearly going to spending the majority of the expansion truth seeking. Its hard to say who well be the main antagonist (with so many on the table at the moment), but I wouldn’t be surprised if the first or third act involves Kraktorik fighting something other then the Heroes/Pact forces.

starlinvf.1358:

Carighan.6758:

I don’t mind the shift away from them, interesting as “Dragons as forces of nature” could have been. They were just used as generic bosses anyhow.

What annoys me is just how utterly random the newly introduced boss is. And how he shows up and all. It’s all so… yeah. Might as well be anyone else.

The whole LS3 was building up Lazrus as the antagonist, and everyone expected a plot twist at the end. But using one of the Human Gods introduces 2 new sub plots that couldn’t happen without direct references to them…. 1. It reinforces their vulnerability as Mist Walkers against the Dragons, and Balth’s motivations are one of shrouded desperation. 2. Theres now a 3rd contender in the scenario, and this is ramping up to change the war into a battle of Juggernauts. The heroes now have to juggle 3 problems…. the overt threat of Dragon minions, the fractured political state of Tyria, and now a second super natural force, with a total disregard for collateral damage.

If they had repeated the scenario of Nightfall, using the players as Agents to the God’s war, we would have the exact same plot line as LS3, but with way more contrivances to explain why anyone in Tyria would actually go along with the God’s plans. The raids and dungeons also house a lot of extended plot; and one constant reoccurring theme is mortals achieving godhood through massive infusions of magical energy.

But there is one major focal point of mythos that has to be addressed, yet has been largely hand waved up until this point….. the Mists itself. Despite never being mentioned directly in story, the Mist wars and multiverse theory is now an integral element to the Dragon wars ever since it was introduced via Omadd’s machine. The dragons powers are bound to the physical realm of Tyria; yet we know for a fact that Mist walkers easily traverse between these realms. Thats a massive plot hole if you ignore the Mist Wars, because it would otherwise be the most direct solution to the Elder dragons…. a place to evacuate to, and theoretically infinite resources to wage war against them. The only things preventing this is our inability to navigate its metaphysical design with any sort of reliability, and the constant threat of invading forces from the borderlands.

So no… Balth as an antagonist is not “random”. The inclusion of the Mist walkers were inevitable the moment the metaphysical nature of Tyria was brought into the main story. The fact that they’re addressing it now is mostly to prevent the story from getting too chaotic before they can tie some of these threads together. Its also why they knocked out 2 Elder dragons to buy the story time, ended Caudicus, and put Logan in charge of the Pact….. there are too many loose ends in the story right now to generate the plot focus they need for a better story experience.

This might not seem obvious to most…. but look back at High Fantasy movies mimicking the structure of Lord of the Rings. Or even compare Peter Jackson’s Hobbit to the older Animated versions. Lord of the Rings is 3 interwoven story threads (and I don’t mean story arcs), comprised of multiple plot threads, each on a different scale. The Hobbit is one story thread made from 3 repeating plot threads. The thing to take away from this is Tolkenesqe stories can easily balloon out of control if you don’t know how to keep the plot threads personal, but well connected. That was a big problem with GW2’s personal story…. events escalated rapidly, but the various plot threads were not tied together well. Its also what happened to the Hobbit movie, as elements were introduced and discarded abruptly; resulting in things being utterly confusing at best, and completely unresolved at worst. Heart of Thorns tried to reset the board by nullifying the Pact….. but Mordremoth wasn’t a compelling villain for a more narrowed story focus, as him putting too much focus on the heroes would be utterly overbearing. Its basically the Mount Doom ark of LotR once you realize HOT Map Metas and the HOT personal story are actually divergent. Its also why the story thread told from the perspective of the map meta is much stronger, because salvaging a shattered army and bringing it to bear against the heart of the enemy for a rematch, is exactly the type of underdog story most people find compelling.

With the way they’re trying to steer events, the expansion is clearly trying to shoot for a more focused approach to story telling, and sort out the problems of who is in main roles and who are in supporting roles. The pact is clearly going to be shifted into a Supporting role, and the heroes are clearly going to spending the majority of the expansion truth seeking. Its hard to say who well be the main antagonist (with so many on the table at the moment), but I wouldn’t be surprised if the first or third act involves Kraktorik fighting something other then the Heroes/Pact forces.

You make many interesting points, one that should be underlined is the meta events. It really hits home when you have time enough to go from one event to the next or at least multiple events. You start to see the threads weave together.

‘’Dragons were not always the main antagonists of Guild Wars 2. According to The Making of Guild Wars 2 book, original drafts for story included demons and angelic beings descending to the world to judge it.’’

Source : https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elder_Dragon

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Maybe because killing elder dragons gets boring and repetitious, when you get right down to it.

+1 to that.

I seem to recall a number of us thinking, especially after 2+ years of experimentation with the living story, “oh god, are they going to drag out this Elder Dragon storyline for the next 15 years?”

I welcome fresh directions. If ArenaNet have a plausible story about the dragons being sent back to sleep then that’s ‘a-ok’ with me. #bringonCantha.

Personally, I am happy for the shift to something other than dragons.

As a player of GW1 since almost the beginning, I enjoyed all the stories, because they were personal and you were up against people/creatures/monsters that you could understand on some level. You could face them squarely.

The Elder Dragons, while cool in concept, are something that a character cannot fully fathom. They are entities with power and history beyond imagining. Scarlet, for all her flaws, was more personally engaging to us as players and to the characters in the story.

I enjoyed the elder dragons, but like many others have said, they are getting stale. I, for one, am glad to move on to a new big bad.

Evon Skyfyre.9673:

Lahmia.2193:

Villains like Scarlet and Caudecus are much more interesting than the Elder Dragons. Because the dragons are giant forces of nature, they lack personality.

Agreed, I really hope for another if not Scarlet herself! A stroke of the pen brings all to life again!

Incoming Palawa Joko in 4….3……2…..1 months

flog.3485:

Evon Skyfyre.9673:

Lahmia.2193:

Villains like Scarlet and Caudecus are much more interesting than the Elder Dragons. Because the dragons are giant forces of nature, they lack personality.

Agreed, I really hope for another if not Scarlet herself! A stroke of the pen brings all to life again!

Incoming Palawa Joko in 4….3……2…..1 months

To heck with the Elder Dragons. Palawa Joko dissed my great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great,great grandmaw. My family has never forgotten it and we’re ready to rumble!

flog.3485:

Evon Skyfyre.9673:

Lahmia.2193:

Villains like Scarlet and Caudecus are much more interesting than the Elder Dragons. Because the dragons are giant forces of nature, they lack personality.

Agreed, I really hope for another if not Scarlet herself! A stroke of the pen brings all to life again!

Incoming Palawa Joko in 4….3……2…..1 months

And with a bit of extra money they can have christopher walken voice him, like Anet wanted.

While an Elder Dragon truely rising and laying waste to large areas of existing Tyria sounds cool, it would be quite annoying in game. Remember how ticked players were with the lack of repeatability of Episode 1 or asking for the original Lion’s Arch back (besides personal story instances)?

So that leads to the “defeat before the truly wake up” but that becomes a trope. New expansion, next elder dragon to defeat. Wheeee!

And many felt since LS1 that defeating the dragons outright was the wrong tact. So now we’re shifting to the other powerful beings we are aware of, the Human Gods.

maybe because they cant make a good endboss fight

Knowing that every xpac would be the killing of a dragin would have been so boring. Flipping a story on its head keeps it interesting and keeps the speculation alive.

Imagine if every book you read told you who killed who in the introduction and the rest of the book was just you flipping pages to confirm what you’ve read. What a chore.

You have to applaud a change in direction. It shows that they said “You know what, this isn’t working. What if we…”

i’m glad they are moving away from the elder dragons storyline. it gets boring after a while. time to fight other foes like Palawa Joko, or relive the old human-centaur rivalry…..

If they put elder dragons away it doesn’t mean they can’t pick that storyline up again some later expansion. After all, with luck and sufficient continuing interest of people playing the game, the game can go on for a number of years. Let the expansions explore other story lines. The dragons are capable of sleeping for centuries. That story can wait to be reactivated later, and then it will be fresh again.

Imho the dragons failed at being impersonal forces of nature. :/ They’re too small for a start. From what I read before I started, I was expecting the equivalent of a sentient mountain. Something that would put the bosses from Shadow of Collossus to shame. Then you see Zhaity and he’s… well, he’s kinda big, I guess.

And they were very much personal, especially M who references characters by name. Can you imagine a force of nature doing that? Could a sentient mountain range look down and notice the ants on its flanks? If it could, would it bother to learn their names and try to psych them out? No, it would crush them with an avalanche and think nothing of it. Only a thinking, scheming lizard with a big appetite would bother to play games with the ants.

Lastly, the forces of nature sham was done the moment you discover you can kill them. That’s right. You kill…. a force of nature. I can’t wait to kill Gravity in the expac. That kitten is always getting me down.

Only a thinking, scheming lizard with a big appetite would bother to play games with the ants.

and only till it’s tired of playing. After that it’s game over for the ants.

The restraint that the elder dragons have shown has never made sense if they’re supposed to be more than a force of nature. Even a dragon lieutenant flying overhead is devastating to the ground and the living creatures underneath. If an elder dragon sent a lieutenant to fly above populated areas, crisscrossing the cities and farms, all opposition would cease as the ground underneath is corrupted and people die or are turned. How could people begin to fight that?

The game can’t have the dragon’s acting in a way that’s rational if they’re aware that people are going to stop or kill them. So the dragons have to sit in one place and wait for people to pick them off one by one because otherwise it’s no contest. <—— and there’s a boring story.

The crux of it comes down to the word ‘impersonal’. If they’re playing games with us, they’re not impersonal. They may still be forces of (Tyrian) nature but they’re more than the forces of nature we understand.

And that’s the problem with calling them forces of nature to begin with. It starts the player off with a misleading impression, because we’re used to the term used for things that are i) non-sentient, ii) non-living and therefore unkillable, iii) impersonal.
The EDs don’t meet those criteria so we’re in a state of mental gymnastics trying to reconcile opposing concepts.

Speaking of acting rationally, the EDs certainly don’t have to act in a way that seems rational to us… they just have to be internally consistent. They have to act in a way that’s consistent with what they’re supposed to be. Given, as I said above, that it’s confusing as to what they’re supposed to be, it’s not surprising that it’s confusing why they do the things they do. Forces of nature work in mysterious ways and all that.

Regardless of whether or not they can act in a rational sentient manner, the problem is the power discrepancy and what that does to the story. If a dragon can devastate the ground underneath by merely flying overhead then the story is going to have to require the dragon to either sit in one place and wait to be attacked or to act in an irrationally restrained manner because there’s no way the 5 races can take on elder dragons that are proactive. This forces the imposition of a non reactive storyline where the dragon sits or does little (behaves like a force of nature), which means that there’s only so much the writers can do with the story. The dragons have to sit and wait. They can’t fly far out of our reach. They can’t attack directly in a substantive way and they can’t combine forces, except weakly.

No argument on the power discrepancy and the need for restraint. It’s the classic Superman problem, or Neo from Matrix Revolutions. When a character has so much power they can solve any problem, they need to be restrained somehow to allow for story. The challenge is in how to make the restraint believable, to explain why the eagles don’t just fly to mordor. And it’s not just Tolkien and anet that have trouble explaining the actions of their uber-powerful characters. There’s another book about a super being in the sky who does all kinds of confusing things. I’ve been told not to think too deeply about it. Just accept the dude does mysterious things. That’s not satisfying to me but that’s just me.

On another point, I don’t agree that sitting and doing little is behaving like a force of nature, but I take responsibility for that. I started talking about sentient mountains, meaning to describe the scale of the dragons, not imply that mountains were forces of nature. To be clear, when I think of forces of nature I mean tornadoes, earthquakes and such, which clearly don’t sit still and do nothing. Gentle gusts of wind are also forces of nature and they don’t do much but bring a pleasant relief on a hot day, so doing little is possible for a force of nature. It just isn’t a defining feature.

EDIT: The.. upshot of that long-winded spiel is that I don’t think the EDs were handled well as forces of nature. I don’t think it works. I prefer to think of them as super-powerful elder beings who somehow evolved in the magical ecosystem and now form an important part of it.

It’s been a couple of years since I’ve seen this video so I might have been using the term “force of nature” wrong myself, but the term force of nature when referring to an antagonist in a video game doesn’t refer to anything like tornados or earthquakes.

Here is the extracredit video about force of nature villians.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TyyE8c27-9Y

Just a flesh wound.3589:

It’s been a couple of years since I’ve seen this video so I might have been using the term “force of nature” wrong myself, but the term force of nature when referring to an antagonist in a video game doesn’t refer to anything like tornados or earthquakes.

Here is the extracredit video about force of nature villians.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TyyE8c27-9Y

True. There is that. I think I’m somehow apply a different standard of force to the EDs than to other villains. I don’t know why that is. Dragon discrimination perhaps.

To go back to the OP’s post. One force of nature dragon can be an interesting storyline but after that, what can the other dragons do to be different and interesting? How many dragon forces of nature can the hero kill before it becomes the same story over and over? And, imo, that’s the problem with this game’s elder dragon story. The dragons aren’t distinct enough to have a truly separate and interesting storyline for each. Each is powerful, has lieutenants, minions, and corrupts those around it. The dragon story is the same story over and over. Only the details of how to reach and kill each one will differ. (And of course Taimi will pull a Deus ex Machina out of her back pocket to fix the overwhelming odds against us, which is another example of bad storytelling caused by the power differential).

Which is why if ANet is putting the dragons aside to explore other storylines, such as Palawa Joko, or Cantha or one of the other race’s stories, I think it’s a good idea.

God….just not another dragon…im sick and tired of it.

Evon Skyfyre.9673:

Fighting Dragons is fun, but we have the possibility of being caught in a battle of the gods. “My light was dim, they’ll notice me now!” Or words to that effect. I don’t know about you, but being thrown into a war of that magnitude… BRING IT ON!!

You mean, a fight between comparatively weak “gods” (if I’d even call them that, considering how they are only part of the lore of a single of our 5 races, and mostly seem to be something like minor world-caretakers), instead of between forces of nature in the form of dragons?

Yeah, sounds amazingly epic…

I mean, as I said above, the switch away from the dragons was ok. But to what they switched, and how utterly random it showed up with no prelude, no introduction and no rhyme or reason? Meh.

To answer the OP, I agree entirely. Why do I want to fight anything other than massive, awesome looking dragons? That is why the Zhaitan fight is by far the best fight in game for me right now. Nothing else even comes close. Boring mechanics? Who cares? If I wanted a difficult fight I would go to pvp. Story should stop focusing so much on interesting mechanics and just make the fights look awesome. I don’t care how easy it is to kill the elder dragons, I just want the fight and the instance to look amazing.

As for abandoning the elder dragons, I am not entirely convinced that is what they have done. But we will definitely not be fighting an ED in the next expansion and that is a real issue imo. Look at primordus when we saw him in flashpoint. Would you really prefer to fight Balthazar than him as the final boss in the next expansion? I know I wouldn’t.

As fun as killing big evil dragons / elder dragons has been, I’m glad that they’re moving away from them (whether it’s permanently or just a break for a while).

I’ve enjoyed the dragon fights, but in the back of my mind I just keep thinking ‘realistically an elder dragon would just step on me and be done with it’.

So I think going up against a more normal sized and probably smarter (and still very powerful) opponent will maybe give a nice change to the battles and how things play out.

Evon Skyfyre.9673:

One of the most maddening tasks is trying to please everyone. It can’t be done. But we try. Anet is trying to. All the moving parts in this game, all the different facets wanting their attention. They are dealing with a living, breathing world. Most mmo’s are sandboxes, or theme parks. Anet broke that mold. They dumped the trinity, they added underwater battles, jumping puzzles, gliding. We have more means of transportation then any game I have played. We can even send gifts to eachother through the BLTC. Remember the attack on LA? I have played mmo’s since 2003 and I have never seen a braver step then destroying a city, and rebuilding it. That battle felt so real, the feels after seeing smoldering ruins.

My point is this, we may not be happy with every single step, or change, or update. But we can have a little faith and let things unfold. We have a new update coming, a season finale. Then an expansion. Fighting Dragons is fun, but we have the possibility of being caught in a battle of the gods. “My light was dim, they’ll notice me now!” Or words to that effect. I don’t know about you, but being thrown into a war of that magnitude… BRING IT ON!! We faced one god in gw1, now imagine all 6. That would be amazing and give them stories to unfold, imagine the divide in the citizens religous beliefs. Look at Balth revealing himself, Kas fell to her knees, Jory drew her sword. Even they chose opposite sides of that fight. That is how I hope the expansion goes. We’ll see.

“Lf chronotank, heal druid, DPS”.

Yeah no Trinity at all right?

Anet dropped the ball with the expansion in every way. Period.

Aldath.1275:

“Lf chronotank, heal druid, DPS”.

Yeah no Trinity at all right?

Anet dropped the ball with the expansion in every way. Period.

Meh, the game desperately needed roles (in PvE), plus we already had them in PvP situations.

Carighan.6758:

Evon Skyfyre.9673:

Fighting Dragons is fun, but we have the possibility of being caught in a battle of the gods. “My light was dim, they’ll notice me now!” Or words to that effect. I don’t know about you, but being thrown into a war of that magnitude… BRING IT ON!!

You mean, a fight between comparatively weak “gods” (if I’d even call them that, considering how they are only part of the lore of a single of our 5 races, and mostly seem to be something like minor world-caretakers), instead of between forces of nature in the form of dragons?

Yeah, sounds amazingly epic…

I mean, as I said above, the switch away from the dragons was ok. But to what they switched, and how utterly random it showed up with no prelude, no introduction and no rhyme or reason? Meh.

I agree that the introduction of Balthazar was fairly weak. I think that the beings the Humans call “Gods” should have more of an impact when they are on Tyria so there should have been clues that Balthazar had returned and, as in the trailer, if one of them “never left”. There are people who worship these gods, I assume even priests of some kind. Those people, and the Order of Whispers, should have had some idea that something was going on. That would have made it an even better story: why are these things happening if the gods are gone?

As for the gods only being lore for one of the races, that doesn’t mean they still aren’t powerful beings that the other races should be wary of when they appear and take an active role.

Aldath.1275:

Evon Skyfyre.9673:

One of the most maddening tasks is trying to please everyone. It can’t be done. But we try. Anet is trying to. All the moving parts in this game, all the different facets wanting their attention. They are dealing with a living, breathing world. Most mmo’s are sandboxes, or theme parks. Anet broke that mold. They dumped the trinity, they added underwater battles, jumping puzzles, gliding. We have more means of transportation then any game I have played. We can even send gifts to eachother through the BLTC. Remember the attack on LA? I have played mmo’s since 2003 and I have never seen a braver step then destroying a city, and rebuilding it. That battle felt so real, the feels after seeing smoldering ruins.

My point is this, we may not be happy with every single step, or change, or update. But we can have a little faith and let things unfold. We have a new update coming, a season finale. Then an expansion. Fighting Dragons is fun, but we have the possibility of being caught in a battle of the gods. “My light was dim, they’ll notice me now!” Or words to that effect. I don’t know about you, but being thrown into a war of that magnitude… BRING IT ON!! We faced one god in gw1, now imagine all 6. That would be amazing and give them stories to unfold, imagine the divide in the citizens religous beliefs. Look at Balth revealing himself, Kas fell to her knees, Jory drew her sword. Even they chose opposite sides of that fight. That is how I hope the expansion goes. We’ll see.

“Lf chronotank, heal druid, DPS”.

Yeah no Trinity at all right?

Anet dropped the ball with the expansion in every way. Period.

Raids are a different matter than regular content. It is difficult enough that it should need dedicated roles.

Djinn.9245:

Carighan.6758:

Evon Skyfyre.9673:

Fighting Dragons is fun, but we have the possibility of being caught in a battle of the gods. “My light was dim, they’ll notice me now!” Or words to that effect. I don’t know about you, but being thrown into a war of that magnitude… BRING IT ON!!

You mean, a fight between comparatively weak “gods” (if I’d even call them that, considering how they are only part of the lore of a single of our 5 races, and mostly seem to be something like minor world-caretakers), instead of between forces of nature in the form of dragons?

Yeah, sounds amazingly epic…

I mean, as I said above, the switch away from the dragons was ok. But to what they switched, and how utterly random it showed up with no prelude, no introduction and no rhyme or reason? Meh.

I agree that the introduction of Balthazar was fairly weak. I think that the beings the Humans call “Gods” should have more of an impact when they are on Tyria so there should have been clues that Balthazar had returned and, as in the trailer, if one of them “never left”. There are people who worship these gods, I assume even priests of some kind. Those people, and the Order of Whispers, should have had some idea that something was going on. That would have made it an even better story: why are these things happening if the gods are gone?

As for the gods only being lore for one of the races, that doesn’t mean they still aren’t powerful beings that the other races should be wary of when they appear and take an active role.

What if they were commanded to remain silent? What if they are aware and choose not to warn others. That would be interesting.

TL;DR

They didn’t.

Long version:

Two Elder Dragons are still 100% awake and active, Kralkatorrik and the DSD. Jormag is not confirmed to be asleep nor severely weakened, at this point it is merely a hypothesis on both Taimi’s and the players’ part. Primordus is technically also not confirmed to be asleep yet, as we were only told by the scanner that it is power weakened to pre-awakening levels, so it may have just went to sleep.

In addition to that, even if they are asleep now, Jormag and Primordus still have hundreds of active dragon minions in the world who could gather magic to help raise them back to a wakening state like Drakkar did and the Great Destroyer attempted. We may still find ourselves fighting these two Elder Dragons as a threat, just not directly (like we did in Eye of the North).