Guild Wars 2

(Yes I know this is a complaining thread about complaining, this is my view)

I’m being serious.

I’ve seen this in literally all MMO environments, and in all game discussions pretty much elsewhere… Now it’s gotten to a point GW2 is nothing but this on class forums and other forums.

I know this might be “slightly” off topic, but this rant pertains to GW2 at the moment.

When you hear the forum titles “General Discussion”, and “Class Discussion” most people would think that they have good information. Well, right now… they don’t at all really, and are just people acting like the end is near.

Instead we have a slew of people mocking, trashing, and overreacting with the game.

Am I upset a little with some things in the game? Yes, I am a little. does this warrant me making a “this game is dying thread”, and trash talking the devs? No it does not.

Instead of constant trash talking, it would be nice to have more positive, and actual useful threads. Feedback is warranted, but think about how you approach doing it.

Take this how you will, I honestly expect to be flamed, or for this thread to be taken down. I just think it’s worth mentioning this.

Because the people enjoying the game, that have few complaints, are actually playing the game.

This is why I get more info from reddit than the official forums. Sure sometimes it’s negative as well, but there are by percentage far more posts useful to me.

Probably because those people enjoy the changes and game direction.

Vayne.8563:

This is why I get more info from reddit than the official forums. Sure sometimes it’s negative as well, but there are by percentage far more posts useful to me.

This is pretty much how any official forum VS a Reddit goes pretty much. It is sort of sad I guess.

Lahmia.2193:

Because the people enjoying the game, that have few complaints, are actually playing the game.

I am usually one of these people. I just wish people were less negative on the forums. I like using forums for fun and info.

“Why do people in general complain too much?”

Why do people give a kitten what other people do? And how much is too much? How many complaints may people file without breaking out of the acceptable norm for amount of complaints?

I think your point is completely valid.

I have learned some people just, for lack of a better term, are just perpetually jerks. This are the same individuals who trash a waitress for minor mistakes, instead of just taking their business elsewhere.

But there are also people who come here only because they are frustrated by something that happened in game and it made them so mad they just came here to vent.

I get that.

The ones I have a problem with are the folks who just never have anything positive to say and basically constantly trash the game. Again, if I get crappy food and poor service at a restaurant, and may pleas fall on deaf ears, then I just don’t go back.

It is also easier to criticise on the internet when you aren’t face to face or accountable to your words. What people say online are not what people say out loud to another.

The structure of the forum also doesn’t help. The general discussion subforum has probably done more damage than what has been gained. If it never existed and sub forums were more specific or focussed, with strong moderation, the culture could have been bred differently over the past 3 years.

I will tell you why from my perspective:
I was waiting for over a year for a new exciting content. I was thrilled about raids, new fractals, legendary armor + craftable precursors, and the new WvW map. What I got is no legendary armor, 3 bosses that have mechanics that make my guardian a worse choice to any other profession, WvW map that is mostly empty, no new fractals, just destruction of dungeons, and precursors are several hundred gold cheaper to buy off the TP instead of crafting it – example: check The Legend requirements and the prices of spiritwood.

The general rule is that people who are happy with something have considerably less motivation to speak up. Most effective critical communication is about soliciting change and people who are happy don’t really want things to change. I still think this group is the larger of the two – it is just harder to see.

Among those who are critical of the game, I see two distinct groups – those who criticize because they care about the game and want Anet to succeed and those who just like to complain and hear themselves talk. Unfortunately, the Internet and its inherent anonymity seems to encourage the second category much more than the first.

It falls to Anet to know the difference, which Im sure can be a painful task at times. I think as players, the best thing we can do when we have (legitimate) criticisms is follow a few simple guidelines -

a. keep it civil.
b. remember that there are many types of players and not everyone will agree that something should be changed.
c. be constructive and try to focus on potential solutions to problems more than harp on the problems themselves.

Anet listens to players – imo, sometimes more than they should (still miss LS Season 1 ). It falls to us to make it as easy as possible for them to understand what we expect and want out of GW2.

Blaeys.3102:

The general rule is that people who are happy with something have considerably less motivation to speak up. Most effective critical communication is about soliciting change and people who are happy don’t really want things to change. I still think this group is the larger of the two – it is just harder to see.

Among those who are critical of the game, I see two distinct groups – those who criticize because they care about the game and want Anet to succeed and those who just like to complain and hear themselves talk. Unfortunately, the Internet and its inherent anonymity seems to encourage the second category much more than the first.

It falls to Anet to know the difference, which I’s sure can be a painful task at times. I think as players, the best thing we can do when we have (legitimate) criticisms is follow a few simple guidelines -

a. keep it civil.
b. remember that there are many types of players and not everyone will agree that something should be changed.
c. be constructive and try to focus on potential solutions to problems more than harp on the problems themselves.

Anet listens to players – imo, sometimes more than they should (still miss LS Season 1 ). It falls to us to make it as easy as possible for them to understand what we expect and want out of GW2.

I’m the same way. I want them to succeed.

There are several reasons, though to me there are three main issues that I think are important:

1) People care about the game. They want it to succeed, and are concerned when changes are made that they think will damage it. This is an MMO, and therefore an active player base is important for everyone. For a simplistic example of really bad decision making, consider the amount of hours that have been put into creating content that no longer exists in game. Imagine if we’d been given a new city, instead of a third version of LA. Or if Living World Season 1 was accessible. Or if SAB had been left open. Or if the new WvW maps had been additions rather than (actually never mind on that one)…

2) ANet are bad at communication. This has led to players moving from “I care about the game so will give my input” to “I care about the game, but will have to shout my input in order to be heard”. There have been literal in game riots about this, and nothing came of them.

3) Players are paying customers, and ANet has done some pretty questionable things in terms of their cash. For me, the Infinite Continue Coin is the worst (a gem store item that has been literally useless since 2013 that they refuse to refund). But the list is getting pretty long on this front (focus on gem store, promises of content with preorders that simply hasn’t been delivered, heavy focus on RNG based rewards…). This has led players from “I care about the game but will need to shout to be heard” to “Okay, if ANet doesn’t respect me as a customer, then I will treat them with the same lack of respect”.

Now this isn’t to say that everything is ANet’s fault. Obviously there’s no excuse for abusive posting, and it isn’t like they haven’t given us lots and lots of content. But these seem to be the key issues to me.

Because they can. Can you imagine having a conversation for longer than a couple of minutes in reality with some of the more vocal people on these forums? I personally would go insane if I could not walk away.

Same reason why people trash talk others in a game but would never say half the stuff they say if they were face to face with a person in real life. Because they can on the internet since they hide behind their keyboards. If some of these people went into stores and complained the way they do on here security would escort them out the door so fast…

https://youtu.be/qaa3V_fgzo8

Some reasons I can think of.

1. The game is casual, want to play more hardcore game, too cheapskate to change game.
2. The game was great, anet focus on the wrong improvements, game got worsen but still want to continue playing because I made friends in the game.
3. I just want to rant.

I am, therefore i complain. It’s a basic human function like blinking.

While some people definitely take it over the top, it’s a little depressing when your main profession was trash in the PvP meta and then gets a series of buffs which don’t actually address the issues thus meaning it will likely still be useless.

Then you remember that you won’t see more changes for another 3 months.

Don’t get me wrong, I liked a lot of the changes from this update and the improved Shatterer is so much better, it’s just sad when there’s massive threads with tons of feedback on how to improve your profession and then the devs just ignore all of it in favour of buffing skills that didn’t need help.

However, as salty as I am about the lack of significant Warrior changes, this game has the benefit of not requiring gear or leveling to play a new class in PvP, so I don’t think it’s too big of a deal.

Forum-PvP is the real GW2 esport.

I’d say currently we see complaining more because there’s nothing major and new added lately (past month) why does this mean more complaints? Well there are patches the have come etc.
some fixes/ balances will mess with people’s current playstyles/builds so they complain about that and patching can also cause new bugs for people to complain about whereas if you fix a boss and it’s now great you’ll get one maybe two threads starting up to say yay great etc that’s all whereas balancing causes a lot of negative ones to crop up because it affects many things so there are many things to complain about.

We are all used to the current content so we don’t open new threads to discuss the content whereas when the game was first released loads of people will be saying things like oh wow I found this!, this game is awesome!, first superior rune!, found this world boss here, wonder when he’ll be back etc etc there’s nothing new to discuss, builds are more or less set since they can’t realistically balance it so many many different builds are all equal value so what’s the point in discussing those (plus those are mostly in the class subforums) Basically there’s little to discuss except what to improve, balance etc.

Sorry if its not too legible I’m tired and using phone

Lampshade.7569:

Forum-PvP is the real GW2 esport.

I think I’m up there on the leaderboard!

Manasa Devi.7958:

“Why do people in general complain too much?”

Why do people give a kitten what other people do? And how much is too much? How many complaints may people file without breaking out of the acceptable norm for amount of complaints?

Because it can affect them. Too much is when it’s common occurrence. Same question as the last except quantity is considered.

Because enough complaints will cause change, i.e. Anet address those problems. Too much is when ArenaNet takes action. Same question as the last except quantity is considered.

kEking hrd
nt

To be fair, this forum is way less complaint-driven than many official gaming forums.

Leohart.4610:

Manasa Devi.7958:

“Why do people in general complain too much?”

Why do people give a kitten what other people do? And how much is too much? How many complaints may people file without breaking out of the acceptable norm for amount of complaints?

Because it can affect them. Too much is when it’s common occurrence. Same question as the last except quantity is considered.

Because enough complaints will cause change, i.e. Anet address those problems. Too much is when ArenaNet takes action. Same question as the last except quantity is considered.

kEking hrd
nt

Actually, that last paragraph there, that’s why I complain on these forums. ANet has a history of giving in if people complain often and insistently enough. Complaining effects change. That’s the answer to the question posed in this thread.

Vayne.8563:

Lampshade.7569:

Forum-PvP is the real GW2 esport.

I think I’m up there on the leaderboard!

You, my friend, ARE the leaderboard!

Edit to add: I complain because I have seen ANet at it’s best and I simply wished it to continue on that path. Their current dedication to esperts and verticallity have made me a bit upset at them. I still post here in the hopes that they read these forums and try to veer themselves more toward their roots, i.e. I want 2012 back.

DoctorDing.5890:

To be fair, this forum is way less complaint-driven than many official gaming forums.

The forum is hardly a church though. You cant deny that rank filth has made it’s way onto the forums repeatedly before (looking at you, “i wan mountzors” threads). Given the behavior seen on the general discussion forum though, it’s not hard to understand why you see devs/staff posting more commonly, and openly, on other subforums. Hell, just yesterday, Gaile basically told someone “shut up and stop being rude” (my words, not hers) if they wanted an environment where Anet staff felt comfortable enough to try communicating to this community.

I mean, when was the last time we saw JS make a post? Barring him leaving the job for a different one, when the BLTC subforum was subsumed into the general discussion, I havent seem him post as much. It was fun watching him trash the logic of the “nerfed ectos” conspiracy theorists.

People, in general, do not complain.
Specific people complain:

• Those who like the game have little time to post.
• Those who dislike changes aren’t playing and have extra time to post.

Generally speaking, people only post if they are passionate enough about the topic to take the time to post. “Complaining” drives a lot of passion in the 20th and 21st centuries.

I think another big reason for the complaints across the board with anything really is:

People typically don’t like change. If someone has to do something different than what they were doing before, they will resist it and if it bothers them enough become vocal about it.

Some people don’t mind change and will go with the flow. But any time there’s even a mild change to something, you better believe someone will complain about it.

People seek conformity. They want their opinions validated. If their ego is big enough, they believe their opinion is the right one and will freely tell everyone around them that they are wrong.

Many complaints stem from their belief what the game should have been. A false construction based on what they picked and choose and read into from the news and rumors. And when the game doesn’t resemble this ideal image in their mind, they feel betrayed even though it was of their own doing.

Honestly their should be a Psych or Soc class on game forums.

Because sometimes people want more.

Maybe they see a game that is “alright”, but the game in their sight should be much more than that.

Behellagh.1468:

People seek conformity. They want their opinions validated. If their ego is big enough, they believe their opinion is the right one and will freely tell everyone around them that they are wrong.

Many complaints stem from their belief what the game should have been. A false construction based on what they picked and choose and read into from the news and rumors. And when the game doesn’t resemble this ideal image in their mind, they feel betrayed even though it was of their own doing.

Honestly their should be a Psych or Soc class on game forums.

I am sure a university somewhere has courses on online psychosis, games just fall under that category.

Flaws of the players’ egos aside, ANet does make some baffling design decisions that go against so many best practices in game design. Most players can’t put it into precise terms, but they recognize when something feels wrong.

Several people in the game development process don’t communicate these concepts to each other. These questionable ideas get approvals from management that don’t check for these concepts and put a stop to bad practices. These are professionals that shouldn’t be shoveling out these mistakes.

So, players complain, hopefully to highlight some of these gross, unfun missteps. Some of these players have experience in or around game/software design, and they’re more keenly aware of some obviously brokenness. When they give advice, it’s out of the desire to improve the product and get devs to correct what they missed.

(In other cases, the players are full of kitten and just like to whine. :P)

I like to complain about graphic optimisation and dirextx update
Simply because it would improve game performance.

I know that might not be related to your post directly, but I do complain xD

Lahmia and Vayne pretty much said it all, and the topic could end there. I would also like to add:
- The internet gives voice to too many people
- Too much time in people’s hands
- Yes, spoiled kids exist. And the complain about anything, everything is bullying, “you are perfect son” generation is now