Guild Wars 2

Obsidian.1328:

eisberg.2379:

GW1 had Vertical progression as well, and the grind in that vertical progression was far worse than what we have in Guild Wars 2. There was vertical progression in skills, and the better more poweful skills had a very long grind to get them, and they made previous skills weak and not useful anymore.

To be fair, those EotN skills weren’t that hard to max out, and the stat progression in those skills was tiny. It’s true some of those EotN skills eclipsed some older skills in efficiency if you maxed them out, but it was a handful.

Keep in mind that the devs that produced this game are the same ones that gave us Heroes and those EotN skills you referred to. Most of the people that created and produced the core Guild Wars game were gone by the time EotN came around, and those grindy skills were not in the game before that. The shift started with Nightfall. You can see the change in direction taking place even then, you just have to look for it.

But the factions and lightbringer skills were hard to max out…or at least took a long time.

Vayne.8563:

My guild is slowly gaining members, but we don’t delete them because people do come back and we’re not near our cap. But we tend to have around the same number of active players now than we did six months ago, which is more than we had at launch.

I have no idea whether or not the game has a stable or growing population. I think it’s probably pretty healthy, people leave and move on to other games as part of a natural cycle.

I do wonder if it has the mythical longevity of Guild Wars 1.

here is one issue

the circle is broken

in an MMO Players leave new players join and ALLOT of players come back

in GW2 Players leave new players join ALLOT of players NOT coming back ( why should they ? they aren’t adding anything to the game players aren’t motivated to come back for what ? the missed story and loot that they never can see ? to the never changing and expanding world ? )

Zoltreez.6435:

here is one issue

the circle is broken

in an MMO Players leave new players join and ALLOT of players come back

in GW2 Players leave new players join ALLOT of players NOT coming back ( why should they ? they aren’t adding anything to the game players aren’t motivated to come back for what ? the missed story and loot that they never can see ? to the never changing and expanding world ? )

I don’t know. I see a lot of players coming back, even within my guild. People leave for two, three, six months, but most of them have come back.

Vayne.8563:

Obsidian.1328:

eisberg.2379:

GW1 had Vertical progression as well, and the grind in that vertical progression was far worse than what we have in Guild Wars 2. There was vertical progression in skills, and the better more poweful skills had a very long grind to get them, and they made previous skills weak and not useful anymore.

To be fair, those EotN skills weren’t that hard to max out, and the stat progression in those skills was tiny. It’s true some of those EotN skills eclipsed some older skills in efficiency if you maxed them out, but it was a handful.

Keep in mind that the devs that produced this game are the same ones that gave us Heroes and those EotN skills you referred to. Most of the people that created and produced the core Guild Wars game were gone by the time EotN came around, and those grindy skills were not in the game before that. The shift started with Nightfall. You can see the change in direction taking place even then, you just have to look for it.

But the factions and lightbringer skills were hard to max out…or at least took a long time.

…

Really Vayne??

The lightbringer stuff was in Nightfall. 1-2 skills per class, and they were useful only in Nightfall lands. The Sunspear skills were 1 per class, though they were very good skills.

The Factions allegiance rank was a single skill per class.

So…2 skills per class, and 2 general skills. That’s around 20 skills if you really wanted to be maxed out in every secondary class.

Out of what…a thousand?

Please.

Also, you didn’t need to max them out. They were kinda like the stat increase from exotic to ascended in GW2. Minimal at best.

Obsidian.1328:

Vayne.8563:

Obsidian.1328:

eisberg.2379:

GW1 had Vertical progression as well, and the grind in that vertical progression was far worse than what we have in Guild Wars 2. There was vertical progression in skills, and the better more poweful skills had a very long grind to get them, and they made previous skills weak and not useful anymore.

To be fair, those EotN skills weren’t that hard to max out, and the stat progression in those skills was tiny. It’s true some of those EotN skills eclipsed some older skills in efficiency if you maxed them out, but it was a handful.

Keep in mind that the devs that produced this game are the same ones that gave us Heroes and those EotN skills you referred to. Most of the people that created and produced the core Guild Wars game were gone by the time EotN came around, and those grindy skills were not in the game before that. The shift started with Nightfall. You can see the change in direction taking place even then, you just have to look for it.

But the factions and lightbringer skills were hard to max out…or at least took a long time.

…

Really Vayne??

The lightbringer stuff was in Nightfall. 1-2 skills per class, and they were most useful only in Nightfall lands. The Sunspear skills were 1 per class, though they were very good skills.

The Factions allegiance rank was a single skill per class.

So…2 skills per class, and 2 general skills. That’s around 20 skills if you really wanted to be maxed out in every secondary class.

Out of what…a thousand?

Please.

Yes, really. Let’s start with Lightbringer. DOA was one of the hardest and most popular of the elite content, which lightbringer ranks helped with enormously. If you didn’t have a high level lightbringer rank, certain groups wouldn’t even take you along. And if you happened to be a paragon and you wanted to run the imbagon build, one of the builds that were sought after for doing DOA, you had to get your Luxon Kurzick rank up for “Save Yourselves”.

There were, over time, many builds that required many skills. And you’ve completely ignored from your calculations salvage bonuses and lockpick retain bonuses that you got from the grindiest title tracks in the game.

I played Guild Wars 1 with a whole lot of people for a whole lot of years, and I know many who went out of their ways to max the Luxon/kurzick title track, as well as the Lightbringer title track. I know I did.

European Truck Simulator 2 now dominates my life :’(

Actually, Im a bit bored on GW2. 8×80s, all equipped as well as I need, so taking a bit of a haitus. I will be back.

Vayne.8563:

Obsidian.1328:

Vayne.8563:

Obsidian.1328:

eisberg.2379:

GW1 had Vertical progression as well, and the grind in that vertical progression was far worse than what we have in Guild Wars 2. There was vertical progression in skills, and the better more poweful skills had a very long grind to get them, and they made previous skills weak and not useful anymore.

To be fair, those EotN skills weren’t that hard to max out, and the stat progression in those skills was tiny. It’s true some of those EotN skills eclipsed some older skills in efficiency if you maxed them out, but it was a handful.

Keep in mind that the devs that produced this game are the same ones that gave us Heroes and those EotN skills you referred to. Most of the people that created and produced the core Guild Wars game were gone by the time EotN came around, and those grindy skills were not in the game before that. The shift started with Nightfall. You can see the change in direction taking place even then, you just have to look for it.

But the factions and lightbringer skills were hard to max out…or at least took a long time.

…

Really Vayne??

The lightbringer stuff was in Nightfall. 1-2 skills per class, and they were most useful only in Nightfall lands. The Sunspear skills were 1 per class, though they were very good skills.

The Factions allegiance rank was a single skill per class.

So…2 skills per class, and 2 general skills. That’s around 20 skills if you really wanted to be maxed out in every secondary class.

Out of what…a thousand?

Please.

Yes, really. Let’s start with Lightbringer. DOA was one of the hardest and most popular of the elite content, which lightbringer ranks helped with enormously. If you didn’t have a high level lightbringer rank, certain groups wouldn’t even take you along. And if you happened to be a paragon and you wanted to run the imbagon build, one of the builds that were sought after for doing DOA, you had to get your Luxon Kurzick rank up for “Save Yourselves”.

There were, over time, many builds that required many skills. And you’ve completely ignored from your calculations salvage bonuses and lockpick retain bonuses that you got from the grindiest title tracks in the game.

I played Guild Wars 1 with a whole lot of people for a whole lot of years, and I know many who went out of their ways to max the Luxon/kurzick title track, as well as the Lightbringer title track. I know I did.

And you’re ignoring my earlier post where I said the grind in GW1 wasn’t an issue until Nightfall. Even so, it was minimal.

If groups were not letting you in DoA because you weren’t max rank, then they are royal a-wholes for doing that. Just find another group that isn’t so hell-bent on elitist speed-clearing. There were certainly plenty of skills to choose from. Don’t use other players’ unwillingness to compromise with builds as the basis for your argument.

And I didn’t ignore the salvage/lockpick track, they don’t matter. If you really went out of your way in that game for a small % increase in farming then that’s your fault, not ANet’s. The kinds of players that were stubborn about those two titles are the same ones that achievement hunt in this game. They only do it because it’s there, not because it matters. Bad argument.

And if you went out of your way to max the Factions/Nightfall tracks, then, and I hate to use this ridiculously overused trope, but you’re doing it wrong. They were put in as a tiny bonus to players who kept playing. Yet some people saw that tiny gain in skill power and thought “omgihavetomaxthatoutfordungeons” It was the same with the Norn skill “I Am the Strongest.” Great skill, but focusing all your time on maxing it out so you can do other content is backward thinking.

Just because something is there, dangling in front of you like a carrot, doesn’t mean you need to go after it.

I still like this game, but I am bored out of my mind when I log on. I am down to just playing the market and doing my dailies at this point.

I am not interested in the temporary content. As an example the Halloween patch seemed like a grindy mess of zerging in a map shaped like a square. I put a few hours into that and never looked back.

I did the clock puzzle and completed it around my 30th attempt. I got a prize that I will never use and I would of loved to of gotten a title for it instead.

I think Anet’s staff has good intentions and they seem to care way more about this game that SWTOR’s staff did, but man do they need to change gears from this living story thing.

The game is bleeding players without a doubt. My initial guild came here on release with 30 members, didnt last a month. My second guild with 100+ active players died in the Spring. My current guild with 50+ active members also looks like it’s fading. My current guild also requires 100% rep time since it’s the only reasonable way to create a basic clan community in this game.

PVP needs to be 100% revamped. WvW looks beyond stale. PvE needs some action. Would be nice to get some news on new classes within a year or so. etc, etc.

I quit playing because the combat sucks, wvw is a boring zergfest, the classes are bad, and the game in general is very boring after you finish the first storyline. this game feels too much like playing wow, and I have never liked playing wow.

Why do people stop playing GW2?

The same way why do people stop playing/doing something: because of so many things so different, it’s probably hard to enumerate all. But I’ll give you a few:

Real Life: Education, Work, Health, etc
Priorities: Playing GW2 is less priority, say, than completing a certain task.
Boredom: Even good things never last
New Things To Do: New games to spend time on, new console, new tablet, etc.

And more….

Obsidian.1328:

Just because something is there, dangling in front of you like a carrot, doesn’t mean you need to go after it.

This! I wish everyone understood this concept. Every bit of grind in this game is optional. At no point do you need to grind AP, or candy corn, or literally anything else to experience content. If you choose to go after that carrot then whatever go for it, but don’t go after an optional carrot and then remark about how grindy it is. You chose to grind when you didn’t have to!

It’s like with this Halloween patch and the ridiculous candy corn requirements for some of the items, most notably the 20 slot bag. There was an uproar about how horribly grindy it was to get that 20 slot bag, so many people were upset. I guarantee you that almost everyone that posted about how horribly grindy it was didn’t even grind the candy corn. It was proven it was cheaper to buy a bag on the TP with the same slot number. So what’s the problem? That there’s a grindy option to obtain an item? So what? You could grind for hours to get it, or you can buy an equal item on the TP instantly. Yet it didn’t stop people from whining about it as though they were forced to do it.

To be honest, I wish the game was a bit more grindy at times. You got all your skills so early it felt like you weren’t progressing.

Legendaries are so easy to get that they don’t feel legendary. It shouldve needed 50k dungeon tokens and 15k AP to begin with. If you’re gonna make a skin hardcore to get, you may as well go the full 209 miles.

To me PvE feels mostly like mindless button smashing and all that matter is raw DPS. While others might enjoy watching big numbers and be satisfied with this … for me it’s boring.

WvW is mostly about following the zerg and push even less buttons. Roaming can be fun at times. But often you run around looking for a nice fight. Only to get crushed by a zerg

SPvP? No thanks. I rather player LoL or Dota2.

I played GW2 mostly because of WvW. But the recent decisions by the dev team (bloodlust buff, ignoring population imbalances, AoE caps → buffing zergs even more, alt-unfriendliness) made me almost stop playing GW2.

I stop playing GW2 when I get tired and have to go to bed. After all, I gotta be up at 6:30am.

TooBz.3065:

I was thinking about it this morning. It think removing the peg leg from WvW was a major reason my friends quit. (It’s trolly but points out the ridiculous crazyiness that use to be in the game and has been removed in favor of zerging)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wjid3sk8lBo

I don’t see it as trolling. It’s tactics. It’s what this game needs more not less. And more freedom to do such things, not more rules. The siege max is also one of those thinks. Because of it, you can’t really set up siege to defend. Invisible walls, another one of those “you are not allowed” thinks.

Top 3:

1: The most interesting race from GW brought into GW2 is being ignored. The Charr were implemented in a half-rumped manner, with clipping issues to their armor that persist to this day, floating shoulder, back and shield pieces that haven’t been fixed since they were pointed out in Beta, and stretched textures that make their armor look like a 5-year-old’s fridge drawing. The baddest enemies in GW demoted to an afterthought in GW2.

2: Scarlet. OMG, this one alone is reason enough to boycott the game. The single worst game-breaking feature has to be Villian-Sue Salad-Top. She’s destroyed more enjoyment in this game than any ganker I ever faced in PvP. Blow up all my bases, set up all my bombs, Scarlet is the single worst thing I have ever seen canonized into lore. I get physically ill every time she’s the anything behind a living story update.

3: Broken classes that the devs won’t even admit are broken. Turrets that die in 2-3 hits from trash, pets that can’t path and leash after a few feet, flamethrowers that can’t hit targets in front of them, dodging an attack and still taking full damage, AOE that doesn’t hit anything in its AOE. They just aren’t trying anymore. They got our money and they’re making a token effort to justify our continues interest in the game, but they won’t take the time to fix the problems that have plagued the game since Beta.

I haven’t played in three weeks. I don’t see playing in the next three weeks. Hell, if Scarlet is still in the game, I don’t see playing in the next three months. No more money from me in the Gem Store, and I advise everyone to do the same. Stop spending money in the gem store until the problems are fixed. Hit em in the pocket book.

Obsidian.1328:

Just because something is there, dangling in front of you like a carrot, doesn’t mean you need to go after it.

Exactly, glad we agree. This is true of both Guild Wars 1 and Guild Wars 2.

Obsidian.1328:

Just because something is there, dangling in front of you like a carrot, doesn’t mean you need to go after it.

Its true, you can quit and go play another MMO instead, like many people do.

I stopped playing 99% of the content
I am bored with ascended weapon crafting. I only crafted one weapon. I am bored with the repeating living world, instability of game in large fights = I dont WvW anymore…
So as in many other MMO’s I’ve become bussinessman. I only login to buy or sell on TP.
You know I need some risk vs reward mechanics. When you trade on TP there’s allways risk that you loose more money than you make.
When crafting BiS asc. weapons there’s no risk its just boring, very long grind. And I hate that mechanics

Why I quited…

1. Borig story and lore. The Living story was the final nail in the coffin for me.

2. Absolutely dull and boring PvE. The epic element is missing. And where it was supposed to be there (world bosses for instance) it was still missing, because of the huge zergs, and the complete lack of PvE mechanics (homogenized classes etc).

3. The grind for ascended weapons – no, I do not mean the grind itself, but the way you are supposed to do it – grind mats, level craft. This is absurd. Forcing people to craft in order to obtain end game gear, and not giving any other option. How epic and awesome is this?

4. Alt unfriendly – ascended gear being time gated. 1 daily quest and laurels reward per account, and not per character, same with the guild commendations reward (why, just why?).

5. No build diversity whatsoever – again, the problem is the ascended items, since different builds are usually tied to different stats.

6. Grind – the promised no grind, and the best endgame gear to everyone by reaching level 80. Broken promises and lies.

7. Boring skills, autoattack playstyle, unless you are a thief – Since 90% of the classes in GW2 do not use any kind of mechanics (for example – building rage -> spending rage) or resources (mana or energy), all of the skills are tied to cooldowns.

8. I am a vanity kitten, so I enjoy changing my outfits on regular basis. I can not enjoy this in GW2. In order to change my outfits regularly and keep my stats at the same time, I need to obtain several sets of gear and runes, or I have to buy their transmution stones from the cash shop every time I feel like changing outfit. Of course this is going to be off the table, once they implement the ascended armor. No more changing outfits, unless you buy the crap out of their transmution and “un-transmution” stones.

9. Rewards behind the achievement points – can’t get more elitist, can you, arenanet?

10. RNG.

11. The performance of the game in a large scale PvP – just awful.

Etc.

Vayne.8563:

Obsidian.1328:

Just because something is there, dangling in front of you like a carrot, doesn’t mean you need to go after it.

Exactly, glad we agree. This is true of both Guild Wars 1 and Guild Wars 2.

…

Then don’t use a skill “carrot” as the basis for your argument about GW1 gameplay.

Even so, the degree of optional “grindiness”(for lack of a better word) is light years apart between GW1 & 2. The end-game fun back then was coming up will cool and interesting ways to play your toon in hard areas with your friends. The end-game fun now is…what…skins?

What logic is behind that decision?

Vayne.8563:

Zoltreez.6435:

here is one issue

the circle is broken

in an MMO Players leave new players join and ALLOT of players come back

in GW2 Players leave new players join ALLOT of players NOT coming back ( why should they ? they aren’t adding anything to the game players aren’t motivated to come back for what ? the missed story and loot that they never can see ? to the never changing and expanding world ? )

I don’t know. I see a lot of players coming back, even within my guild. People leave for two, three, six months, but most of them have come back.

Curious, are you the GM for your guild? Sounds like a cool place to be. Why do I get the feeling that one day I’ll apply to your guild?

Rikimeru Tokesbudz.3816:

I quit playing because the combat sucks, wvw is a boring zergfest, the classes are bad, and the game in general is very boring after you finish the first storyline. this game feels too much like playing wow, and I have never liked playing wow.

Please explain in what way GW2 is like WoW? Other than masking its gear-grind behind gear slots rather than than tiers, the game is hardly anything like WoW.

-WoW has raids, GW2 does not.
-Wow has stand-still targeting, GW2 does but you are able to hit things you are not targeting.
-WoW does not have combat fields
-WoW has less open-world public content
-WoW does not have instanced personal stories
-WoW has pet battles, GW2 does not
-WoW has cartoony graphics, GW2 does not…infact its the most gorgeous MMO to date in my opinion.
-WoW has minimal exploration, GW2 rewards you for it.
-GW2 has server vs server vs server combat continuous combat. WoW does not.
-WoW has arena, GW2 does not.
-GW2 has jumping puzzles, WoW does not.

??? Where are the similarities?

Draknar.5748:

Obsidian.1328:

Just because something is there, dangling in front of you like a carrot, doesn’t mean you need to go after it.

This! I wish everyone understood this concept. Every bit of grind in this game is optional. At no point do you need to grind AP, or candy corn, or literally anything else to experience content. If you choose to go after that carrot then whatever go for it, but don’t go after an optional carrot and then remark about how grindy it is. You chose to grind when you didn’t have to!

It’s like with this Halloween patch and the ridiculous candy corn requirements for some of the items, most notably the 20 slot bag. There was an uproar about how horribly grindy it was to get that 20 slot bag, so many people were upset. I guarantee you that almost everyone that posted about how horribly grindy it was didn’t even grind the candy corn. It was proven it was cheaper to buy a bag on the TP with the same slot number. So what’s the problem? That there’s a grindy option to obtain an item? So what? You could grind for hours to get it, or you can buy an equal item on the TP instantly. Yet it didn’t stop people from whining about it as though they were forced to do it.

Easier said than done my friend. Trust me…

I am trying to come back to the game and ignore the things that sucked me in, which eventually made me quit the game…but last night I found myself doing just that. Grinding for achievements. I see someone with some really cool skins, I have to have them too. Its just in my nature. As with many other people too.

And yes, this is a personal problem but that does not mean Arenanet needs to make grindy content. Living Story is extremely grindy. Great! New story arc with minimal story telling, and 15 achievements. Same thing…over and over and over again for countless patches now.

This is the sort of thing that makes people quit. It is part of the reason I quit.

cesmode.4257:

Rikimeru Tokesbudz.3816:

I quit playing because the combat sucks, wvw is a boring zergfest, the classes are bad, and the game in general is very boring after you finish the first storyline. this game feels too much like playing wow, and I have never liked playing wow.

Please explain in what way GW2 is like WoW? Other than masking its gear-grind behind gear slots rather than than tiers, the game is hardly anything like WoW.

-WoW has raids, GW2 does not.
-Wow has stand-still targeting, GW2 does but you are able to hit things you are not targeting.
-WoW does not have combat fields
-WoW has less open-world public content
-WoW does not have instanced personal stories
-WoW has pet battles, GW2 does not
-WoW has cartoony graphics, GW2 does not…infact its the most gorgeous MMO to date in my opinion.
-WoW has minimal exploration, GW2 rewards you for it.
-GW2 has server vs server vs server combat continuous combat. WoW does not.
-WoW has arena, GW2 does not.
-GW2 has jumping puzzles, WoW does not.

??? Where are the similarities?

Both have/are:
A class called Warrior
MMOs
Levels
guns
crafting
Fantasy with a little bit of technology
a short race that likes technology
spiders, centaurs, wolves, and many other creatures that are the same
and more than I care to list

hehe, I couldn’t resist

But yeah, if it was another WoW clone, I know I would have quit the game in under 2 months, and not still playing it over a year later. The differences outshine the similarities by far, and this game literally feels like a different game than the vast majority of MMOs released since WoW.

cesmode.4257:

Vayne.8563:

Zoltreez.6435:

here is one issue

the circle is broken

in an MMO Players leave new players join and ALLOT of players come back

in GW2 Players leave new players join ALLOT of players NOT coming back ( why should they ? they aren’t adding anything to the game players aren’t motivated to come back for what ? the missed story and loot that they never can see ? to the never changing and expanding world ? )

I don’t know. I see a lot of players coming back, even within my guild. People leave for two, three, six months, but most of them have come back.

Curious, are you the GM for your guild? Sounds like a cool place to be. Why do I get the feeling that one day I’ll apply to your guild?

You’re welcome to. We’re ultra casual though.

“Why do people stop playing Guild Wars 2?”

Well I personally have not been playing very much because of the horrible customer service policies. Got my account terminated for “botting, extended unattended play or using macros” and although I got it back after I wrote a ticket, they still refused to tell me what the violation was when I asked. Basically “just trust us, there was a violation, try not to do it again whatever it was! -wink-”

cesmode.4257:

Draknar.5748:

Obsidian.1328:

Just because something is there, dangling in front of you like a carrot, doesn’t mean you need to go after it.

This! I wish everyone understood this concept. Every bit of grind in this game is optional. At no point do you need to grind AP, or candy corn, or literally anything else to experience content. If you choose to go after that carrot then whatever go for it, but don’t go after an optional carrot and then remark about how grindy it is. You chose to grind when you didn’t have to!

It’s like with this Halloween patch and the ridiculous candy corn requirements for some of the items, most notably the 20 slot bag. There was an uproar about how horribly grindy it was to get that 20 slot bag, so many people were upset. I guarantee you that almost everyone that posted about how horribly grindy it was didn’t even grind the candy corn. It was proven it was cheaper to buy a bag on the TP with the same slot number. So what’s the problem? That there’s a grindy option to obtain an item? So what? You could grind for hours to get it, or you can buy an equal item on the TP instantly. Yet it didn’t stop people from whining about it as though they were forced to do it.

Easier said than done my friend. Trust me…

I am trying to come back to the game and ignore the things that sucked me in, which eventually made me quit the game…but last night I found myself doing just that. Grinding for achievements. I see someone with some really cool skins, I have to have them too. Its just in my nature. As with many other people too.

And yes, this is a personal problem but that does not mean Arenanet needs to make grindy content. Living Story is extremely grindy. Great! New story arc with minimal story telling, and 15 achievements. Same thing…over and over and over again for countless patches now.

This is the sort of thing that makes people quit. It is part of the reason I quit.

I hear that.

It is part of the reason that has me considering leaving.

Expectations, as I said in my first post on this thread.

Did not expect to find temporary content used in place of an expansion that basically mimics the “feel” (essence of the customer experience) of other MMO’s I joined GW2 to avoid:

1) directed gameplay
2) catch the bus (keep up or lose out)
3) play to reward (achievements / nodes/ materials that are used for gear progression)

When the specific details of the gameplay (the unique game mechanics of dodge/avoidance and the lack of coded trinity) are not enough to overcome that similar (negative) feeling, coupled with absolute lack of trust in the developer, it will be time to move on. Sadly. I hate to see it come to that, because this game does have a lot going for it, including the community.

I’ve only ever returned to one game in all my years of playing, and that’s because of an invite to beta test their first expansion. So I’m hanging in there at the moment, because there isn’t a better game out there. And I do need to cut back on the whining here on the forums.

@cesmode, I understand your sentiment.

it is harder to continue playing when this game is ment for casual play
well you can’t have 8 mil ppl play your game if it is casual

Svetli.4276:

it is harder to continue playing when this game is ment for casual play
well you can’t have 8 mil ppl play your game if it is casual

I think you’ll find that most WoW players are casual. That’s why content continually gets dumbed down.

Svetli.4276:

it is harder to continue playing when this game is ment for casual play
well you can’t have 8 mil ppl play your game if it is casual

i think 100 million casual candy crush saga users would disagree with you.

https://www.facebook.com/appcenter/candycrush?fb_source=search&fbsid=1101

Info
Publisher King.com
Users 100 million players

Available On
iPhone, iPad
Android
Facebook.com

boring skill mechanics

- People who are looking for a good story will start with a new game.
- People who are looking for endgame content are going back to other games.
- People who like character progression will start with a new game or go back to other games.
- People who do not like character progression will play some other games.
- People who like competetive PvP have better options and will play them.
- People who like to play roles in a role playing game will play another MMO with roles.
- People who like challenging content will play other games.
- People who like to play dungeons will play games that release more dungeons frequently.
- People who get tired of The Zerg will play other games.
- People who want raids play other games.

GW2 is a jack of all trades but in the end, it just satisfies noone really. It has no niche to fit in, so people most of the time have just some better option on what they like to play.

I have not been here since launch, however I have a few thoughts for all the people that claim to “hate GW2” yet still log in. I have played several MMOs extensively since 2000 and found that some are fantastic (WoW Vanilla/BC) while others are grinding machines (FFXI!!). When I initially picked up Guild Wars 2 and began playing, I was immediately turned off by the foreign game mechanics. So I kept looking for that ‘super powerful’ profession by reading forums, but I found that for the most part you pick a profession that matches your playstyle. So I rolled about every class up until I found the necro, and it was like finding gold I loved it! I then learned the intricacies of the mechanics and it became enjoyable! What Guild Wars does great is the no pressure, leveling is exploring, gathering, taking on roaming elites with other strangers, etc…I found this to be refreshing since in previous MMOs such as WoW this was non-existent. FFXI? Yah go ahead and try to solo a mob your level, I promise you will die and lose a great amount of experience.

I used to be that hardcore raider (unemployed at the time while not taking college courses) playing 24/7 dedicated to my guild. Fast forward to today, I cannot and refuse to be that type of player anymore since I now have a family, a career, and a bachelors degree which is far more important than being digitally successful in an online game. Guild Wars 2 is built around that concept that allows “casuals” as were branded to enjoy what it has to offer without dumping tons of hours of playing in a day. For all the people whining saying this game is a big grind, puhlease! You think this is a grind? Try playing FFXI or WoW Vanilla rep grinding, or pvp rank grinding for little reward for your efforts which REQUIRED you to be online 24/7 or you won’t make top rank of Grand Marshall.

So in summary, if you find that you are bored of all the content because you are a “hardcore player” then that’s your own fault. Guild Wars 2 is not that kind of game, nor do I think Anet want’s it to become another Korean type grinder MMO.

Leaving and coming back is no longer an option. Many friends tried it but are disappointed of how far behind they are in: fractal level, ascended grinding, the new crafting to 500 and getting 500 dragonites for a single weapon, laurels, guild commendations and all the many many skins they missed and will never return. They now feel that if they want to “catch up” they have to grind and farm harder than any other game that actually has a treadmill.

Face it, GW2 is closer to Wow than GW1.

Mesket.5728:

Face it, GW2 is closer to Wow than GW1.

That’s been a foregone conclusion for awhile now. :/

In the past, I thought it was sort of a chore to grind out legendary weapons in LotRO. But hey, the grind for ascended weapons in GW2 just showed me new dimensions.

I’ve pretty much stopped playing due to the plethora of bugs in my favored skillset. I hop on once in a while, test bugs that’ve been reported, and then add them to my list. When they finally start fixing the bugs, I might start playing again. They’ve got…well, two months or so before I start debating whether to wait any longer on uninstalling.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Svetli.4276:

it is harder to continue playing when this game is ment for casual play
well you can’t have 8 mil ppl play your game if it is casual

i think 100 million casual candy crush saga users would disagree with you.

https://www.facebook.com/appcenter/candycrush?fb_source=search&fbsid=1101

Info
Publisher King.com
Users 100 million players

Available On
iPhone, iPad
Android
Facebook.com

this games are HC :P the addiction there is bigger = hard core game
any game that take more then 4-5h of your day is hard core game and i bet how many of this 100 mil are playing in their work pleases. game that take over your work = hard core

Dark Catalyst.1028:

At least in WoW you get to do fun, challenging content for gear instead of grinding out ascended mats and then sitting at a crafting station. A “privilege” that will cost you hundreds of gold per crafting skill.

When ascended armor comes out, I bet I’m able to gear my WoW character faster than putting my GW2 character in full ascended when considering all the grinding and time gating present in GW2.

This is pretty much it. I’m not a WoW player but I do endulge in other MMOs on ocassion and a great deal in the past GW2 use to not be this way at all and it’s getting worse.

Time gating(ascended weapons, celestial armor/weapons) and material grinding in GW2 is far worse than the “standard” MMO gearing currently in the past no. I can do a few raids in another game and get geared in less time and get more of a sense of accomplishment since it did take some level of organization and skill(even if minor) to get said items instead of just hitting a node every 24hrs or so for weeks and then pressing a button.

It is starting to become a major turn-off. If ascended armor turns out to be as bad/worse I very well may depart. I love WvW with a passion but being a T1 player more than half my play time is spent in a broken lottery-based queue system or even longer in a lot of cases recently since we got a lot of band-wagoners on blackgate.

To OP:
I’ve stopped playing after August update. Champ zergs, farming mentality killed the game for me.

I rarely login and when I do, I do a quick dungeon and log out.

Vayne.8563:

They didn’t fail to deliver. They delivered fine. Some people want more than it possible, that’s all. I’ve yet to see an MMO offer this amount of content during their first year.

I never thought lack of content was their problem. If anything, they’ve often done too much too quickly (and as a result, often times badly) They also worried about fixing minutia while real and ligering problems have gone unaddressed. Add in grind and you have a recipe for disaster.

cesmode.4257:

Easier said than done my friend. Trust me…

I’m glad we’re friends ;P

I’m an AP chaser personally as well. I’ve grinded (ground?) monotonous content in GW2 for arguably minimal gain. But you know what? I’ve ground (that doesn’t sound right) monotonous content in literally every MMO I’ve ever played. Ever. I’ve always been that kind of guy. I come from the UO and then AC era where you would just grind. I played Lineage2 for years, that has to be the definition of grindy games. I’m used to it, I find it mentally soothing and rewarding for some reason. I also burned out on it to some degree which is why GW2 appeals to me. I can log on, grind something for an hour or two, then play something else and not have to worry about falling too far behind. Especially gear-wise.

Back in those days when you would see someone max level with the best stuff in the game you would automatically know that they put some serious time into it. Nowadays in MMOs everything feels like it is handed to you. In GW2 you can see someone with the best stuff and maybe you would think they worked hard for it, or maybe you would think they just bought all of it or maybe they just got lucky with RNG. AP is the only unit of measure for grinding tolerance in GW2. That guy has 15,000 AP??? Dang, he must grind like crazy!

That being said, you will never, ever hear me complain about any game being too grindy as I have a high tolerance for it and actively seek it out. Some grinds are just stupid like the candy corn example I gave. I’m smart enough to know when a grind simply isn’t worth the effort, and hopefully others are as well. But legendary weapons grind, level grind, Ascended gear grind, pffft bring it on I eat pieces of kitten like that for breakfast.

What I don’t understand are the people who feel compelled to grind for something that is arguably inconsequential to progress and then complain that the game is too grindy. If you feel compelled to grind, then aren’t you the type of person who is actively seeking out the grinding? AP means nothing to people who don’t like/care to grind.

“…I find it mentally soothing and rewarding for some reason.”

Draknar, sounds like you are Bartle’s “Achiever” type and that, as you said, you have a high tolerance for grind.

Other player types, such as “Explorer” will come at the game with a different value set, different perspective on what is fun and how they would like to spend their time in game. What soothes and rewards them is something entirely different than what works for you.

If those “Explorer” types feel, whether real or not (because perspective IS reality), that they need to “keep up”, and do content they would not ordinarily do, nor enjoy doing… if they feel “forced” to grind (because the game changed), when that is not their preferred playstyle.. then yes, they will complain. Especially if up until that point in time, the game did not require them to do anything other than enjoy their own playstyle.

According to Richard Bartle, there are four basic types of MMO players: Achiever, Explorer, Killer, Socializer. Four different types who enjoy different aspects of gaming.

Understanding that those exist, and that other players do not necessarily share the same values goes a long way to explaining why some players react the way they do.

Since November, this game has moved closer to aligning with the Achiever quadrant than Explorer. Hence some of the posts here.

-Have I used the word “different” enough in my post?

^

Lol, I fit into 3 of those 4 categories, and Achiever isn’t one of them.

Makes so much sense now. :P

I blame the forums. So many angry people on here while the quiet, happy bunch are still logged in and playing. I consider myself part of the happy bunch, but I can’t help but get bummed out when reading the forums

Their gamble on e-sports influenced the game design in a major negative way.
The mindset was: Make PvP easier to balance by having fewer skills.
This influences PvE in a major way. Once I had all the skill unlocks, and realized that I had very little freedom in playstyle – I quit.

Obviously I’m a GW1 veteran, and lack of freedom in playstyle was too much to bear.
Sooo much player creativity in GW1, so little in GW2…

^ I agree. You can’t make a MMO an eSport without wrecking the core content. They should’ve at least kept PvE and PvP separate so us PvEers don’t get dragged into all this PvP-related nonsense which we don’t give a kitten about.

I think it is because GW2 isn’t a traditional MMO that doesn’t follow the holy trinity of tank, healer, dps. I simply love this idea but other people don’t feal the same way. They think its dumb and imbalanced.