Guild Wars 2

I think RNG is great, it’s a random system, so all the rare things like precursors are RARE and surprising. For all those who hate RNG what system do you think would be better?

I honestly don’t mind the RNG system per say, however I do wish it favored me a bit more sometimes. Anyway, my opinion is that no matter what game, you’ll always have people who want all the good stuff with as little time/effort/pain as possible just so they can look totally badkitten and the bragging rights to go with it, so when the system in place doesn’t favor them in this manner they throw a fit. I also believe that this group tends to be rather small, just incredibly loud. Seriously, I think they invest in bullhorns just so they can shout louder.

I think people enjoy the idea of a set amount of stuff they have to do, rather than “I have to do this activity until I can get that item” – which may never show up.

Honestly, RNG is not bad.

Rare percentage RNG with temporary things, however, is. Because that enforces grinding (to ensure that you can get the item before it’s gone forever), which GW2 is supposed to be against – and it also means that items will be sold for insanely high amounts of money; there are items more expensive than precursors because they were temporary and RNG.

Due to the fact that you can perform task X for a million years straight and STILL not get the result you want.

I really like a system that was used in Ultima Online a long time ago as part of the Treasures of Tokuno system: Every time you killed something, the system would give your account some treasure points. It’d then roll a random number and see if was under the treasure points, and if so, treasure points were reset to 0 and you’d get a treasure item.

So basically, each time you FAILED to get an item, the odds of getting an item next time you killed something slightly increased.

Everyone loved that system, as it would average out much faster and not be subject to the extreme streaks that normal RNG would usually have (not give unlucky person A anything, but give lucky person B a lot of it)

Honestly, I think RNG can be really good – moderately. It makes things rare and give you a feel of happines if you’re lucky.

The biggest problems of RNG in GW2:
-many things depend on rng which should not (example: precursors)
-gem shop items should never be locked behind rng
-lot’s of temporary rng items that make the game grindy if you really want to get it while you can (and you most likely won’t be lucky enough)
-rewards nothing if you’re not lucky: People don’t save civs because 99.99% of the time you get nothing useful and wasted ~45mins of your life, so they zerg instead

There is nothing wrong with RNG. What sucks is the way loot works in this game. Anything can drop a precursor for example but what if you miss to press F to get that loot? This is worst in WvW where you might die beside a chest or in a zerg fight. Personally I wish there was an option to just disable loot.

Why? Because so many people don’t understand Probability and Statistics, which is why they are taught together in college. A one in five chance doesn’t mean you will always get one on the fifth try or that you can only get one every five times you try.

Also if a desired item is only attainable as the “secret toy surprise” it’s true cost isn’t predictable. If only ANet would just be honest and offer BLC skins at 5000, 10,000, 30,000 gems instead of making it variable based on luck of the RNG.

Legendaries are the only true PvE endgame this game offers. RNG is fine when its tied to fluff like minis and tonics, but it sucks when its tied to the core feature.

I would argue that skins aren’t a core feature but a vanity item. They are the Gucci handbag or Rolex watch.

RNG should be serendipity. For instance, if you’re collecting dungeon tokens for dungeon armor and happen to get a piece of that armor as a drop, that’s awesome. If that never happens, it’s still okay because you still have an alternative that will take a set amount of effort.

Serious problems arise when RNG is the ONLY way to get certain items. People get frustrated when they can’t quantify how much effort it will take to get something they want. This is made worse when others whom aren’t trying as hard get lucky. Case in point, I wanted Jade dragon weapons so I spent way too many hours collecting thousands of coffers but never got a ticket. On the other hand, there was a person in my guild that didn’t even collect half as many coffers but got 7 tickets.

A better example is legendary weapons. They have been marketed as the ultimate test for hardcore players but, in reality, they are literally impossible to get unless you are lucky. One of the items needed for them is 77 clovers. They are account-bound so the only way to get them is by using a recipe that has a 18% to 33% chance of producing clovers. Though unlikely, it is possible for a player to never be able to get 77 clovers no matter how many times they use this recipe. Regardless of how low the chances are, this possibility SHOULD NOT EXIST!

The worst of all is, no matter how much the community as a whole has complained about this, Anet refuses to fix the issue or explain why they continue to use a system that is clearly detrimental to their playerbase.

I’ve been a RNG outlier for the almost 6k hours I’ve played this game and tbh it blows. If it were not for the other ppl that I play with in this game I would have quit this game a long time ago due to the horrific RNG my account has incurred. I played GW1 for over 16k hours and never once thought about quitting due to RNG. No matter what I do I cannot fix this issue. It is neither fun or acceptable in a game to have such a mechanic where customers are accepted to have such a variance in their experiences based on something beyond their control.

Some interesting views I see the problem many people say about someone playing X amount of time then someone else and gets it quicker because he/she is lucky but, RNG is not the only way to get a legendary and things you desire besides fractal weapons I think. I believe you can buy precursors or legendaries straight from the trading post, which means that you still have a goal and you will not be playing for ever without obtaining your legendary. RNG is just something that could speed things up depending on your luck. I think people need to start playing guild wars without relying on RNG.

I do not mind RNG but i can understand some people that dislike it.
Wat i do not understand is the counter argument about a “set amount of effort” to obtain something while at the same time they do not want “grind”

Grind = A set amount of effort

So in order for Anet to take out RNG completely they would have to add a huge amount of grind to keep people from getting everything within a few days.

Imho: Legendaries should be a grind and not RNG or partial RNG or bought with gold.(Grind can be fun if done right).

RNG should be used for stuff like Minis, tonics, etc etc

I rather have grind, than RNG, because with Grind I at least know, that i don’t waste my time with something that has a pathetic ridiculous low chance of success to gte at all, other than with grind, where I have daily my slow, but steadily success and feeling of progression, that I reach my goal someday that I have set myself.

However, grind is not = grind. Its the number of options and required efforts that decide over it, if something is realyl a grind or not.
if you need to put into something like a legendary weapon like half a year and havign to do for that time 8hours a day daily one and the same thigns over and over and onver and over again – then this is grind.

Everything game related, where you only have 1 single option to obtain something that you need, that is bonded with time gating or an insane amount of time effort because of there beign no different options to obtain something in the game, is bad grind and bad game design.

but if the game offers enough different ways on how you could obtain what you need, so that you don’t have to do all the time repetively one thign over and onver and onver and over again, then this is good designed grind and a much better game design, because then the player can decide everytiem for his/herself, what he wants to do today to progress further in general for the self set goal of reaching your for example legendary weapon.

Currently these thigns are bad game design, because the game offers you only 1 way of repetitive/collection grind to get these items.
The game sadly offers no other options yet to get these very rare things, other than grindign your butt off for enough materials to get all of the required gifts, the required clovers, the karma ect. all together.

Whats missing is Scavenger Hunts, Hero Quests and the like, that you could find such epic items also just by playing normally the game, doing these taks, without having to grind for stacks of super rare high valuable materials.

We slayed Zhaitan on a large scale journey that is our personal story and and the end of it we don’t get even a precursor, what would be an appropriate reward!!
We play like 2000+, 3000+ hours and so and still have in most of all cases no single precursor to that point, while others that played just only maybe 100hours could have supe luck and get dropped 1 ior even more ..
Thats the freaking point, why so many people HATE RNG, because RNG is absolutely not fair at all. All RNG is, is just being random, nothing more, nothing less.
Everything with that RNG has to do in Games feels like, as if you play the lottery.
I play GW2 to have FUN, not to play permanently non stop lottery!

If I’d ever wanted to play lottery, id buy me lottery slips and play old fashion/normal lottery, but not GW2, because it would give me at least the chance to get rich in RL and not just in a game.

I grew up playing Dungeons & Dragons:

You’ve been playing your character for over a year and have gone from level 1 to 15. You’re fighting a red dragon who breathes fire at you. Roll saving throw… 1. You’re dead.

Your new character is level 1. You’re sitting in the tavern when you overhear a group of adventurers talking about needing a new thief…

RNG is just part of the game.

You would hate RNG too when you had to use over 2 stacks of ecto to finish your clovers.

Martrim.1078:

I do not mind RNG but i can understand some people that dislike it.
Wat i do not understand is the counter argument about a “set amount of effort” to obtain something while at the same time they do not want “grind”

Grind = A set amount of effort

So in order for Anet to take out RNG completely they would have to add a huge amount of grind to keep people from getting everything within a few days.

Imho: Legendaries should be a grind and not RNG or partial RNG or bought with gold.(Grind can be fun if done right).

RNG should be used for stuff like Minis, tonics, etc etc

Many gamers will accept a certain level of grind for certain items which are considered particularly precious and unlikely for a character to have, such as legendary weapons, particularly if that grind is an alternative to an extremely low-chance RNG drop-rate.

The complaints about grind usually center around a game implementing a grindy system to obtain items you are expected to have.

For example, ascended armor is such a big drag because in every MMO, players are expected to have BIS items, and having a full set of ascended requires a time grind, ascended material grind, crafting profession grind (need 500), laurel grind (trinkets), and fractal grind (rings and back). You can bypass some of those, but only with a gold grind.

It would not have been such a big deal if ascended armor was merely exotic armor stats + infusion slots, and the acquisition of said armor could be done entirely in fractals, as that would be the only place the armor was necessary.

Because RNG is badly implemented in this game.

You have everything with the potential to drop anything, but to make up for that, everything valuable has to have an extremely low drop rate. What results is that most things are a waste of time in this game and are unrewarding. You can’t really chase after something or a certain goal, because the distribution of sources are huge, but the equalizer is by making the potential of acquisition basically impossible.

In a sense, most things become rare not because of actual rarity or effort require to get it. They become rare because you’re lucky, and luck isn’t a measure of value.

It’s more along the lines of people complaining about rng because they don’t get precursor drops.

Travis the Terrible.4739:

It’s more along the lines of people complaining about rng because they don’t get precursor drops.

False.

People also don’t like how there’s RNG in the Cash Shop, RNG for temporary content and RNG for precursors.

Also Ascended gear is entirely RNG based outside of crafting, and to make matters worse, 90% of things that are remotely desirable have droprates that practically seem like they’re below 1%.

Look at that guy for example, who opened 88 Tequatl Chests and got basically mats, mats and more mats.

Black Dragon.3784:

I think RNG is great, it’s a random system, so all the rare things like precursors are RARE and surprising. For all those who hate RNG what system do you think would be better?

Tokens?

I did the Tequatl fight till I got all the achievements, I would like some of those weapon skins but thanks to RNG I can do it for a year and get nothing.
If you said: look, you get 1 token if it fails, 10 if it succeeds, with ~100 tokens you can get a weapon from a vendor.
That would be a whole different story, I’d actually do it if there was something to look at.

Relying on a system that has plenty of evidence that’s broken is not a good thing.
And I don’t even have one of those “cursed” accounts, I got a precursor from Jormag once, Abyss dye, etc.

Dean Calaway.9718:

Black Dragon.3784:

I think RNG is great, it’s a random system, so all the rare things like precursors are RARE and surprising. For all those who hate RNG what system do you think would be better?

Tokens?

I did the Tequatl fight till I got all the achievements, I would like some of those weapon skins but thanks to RNG I can do it for a year and get nothing.
If you said: look, you get 1 token if it fails, 10 if it succeeds, with ~100 tokens you can get a weapon from a vendor.
That would be a whole different story, I’d actually do it if there was something to look at.

Relying on a system that has plenty of evidence that’s broken is not a good thing.
And I don’t even have one of those “cursed” accounts, I got a precursor from Jormag once, Abyss dye, etc.

I like the idea! But think about it… Is this tokens you speak of not the equivalent of gold? For nearly everything you do in the game you get money, that money builds up, when it does you can buy one from the trading post.

So that token idea has already been invented but in the form of gold. RNG is just an add on that could speed things up with luck.

Black Dragon.3784:

Dean Calaway.9718:

Black Dragon.3784:

I think RNG is great, it’s a random system, so all the rare things like precursors are RARE and surprising. For all those who hate RNG what system do you think would be better?

Tokens?

I did the Tequatl fight till I got all the achievements, I would like some of those weapon skins but thanks to RNG I can do it for a year and get nothing.
If you said: look, you get 1 token if it fails, 10 if it succeeds, with ~100 tokens you can get a weapon from a vendor.
That would be a whole different story, I’d actually do it if there was something to look at.

Relying on a system that has plenty of evidence that’s broken is not a good thing.
And I don’t even have one of those “cursed” accounts, I got a precursor from Jormag once, Abyss dye, etc.

I like the idea! But think about it… Is this tokens you speak of not the equivalent of gold? For nearly everything you do in the game you get money, that money builds up, when it does you can buy one from the trading post.

Or karma, depending on ones ability to trade between players rather than just with NPCs.

Black Dragon.3784:

I think RNG is great, it’s a random system, so all the rare things like precursors are RARE and surprising. For all those who hate RNG what system do you think would be better?

Personally, I don’t hate RNG. However playing so many game with RNG as a main lever for value and progression, I’d like an alternative for once.

There are several popular alternatives already, but they’re usually not used for MMORPGS. I would love to see supposedly rare and valueable items hidden behind a challenge which is meant to wall people off just like RNG does. In other words, said challenge will not be beatable for just anyone and not right away.

It would be even better if there were several ways of rising to that challenge, including either extreme dedication (along the lines of grind, but not necessarily that boring) or proof of exceptional skill or teamwork.

Ideally, I would want those options to have their timeconsumption balanced relative to their garuantee of success. For example, “farming” your way throuh the challenge will definetely get you there one day, but will take considerably more time than just beating it with skill.

Of course, this is something we can’t hope for with our current combat and dungeon system. Crafting could provide the “farming option” but would have to be way more exciting in order to justify the long-term course you’re taking with it.

It is like work. I go to work and after work i get reward “money”. If i would go to work for getting paid and getting nothing, i pick to not go to the work.

I think GW2’s problem in all this is that just about anything can be traded on the TP.

As such anything that is not behind a straight up RNG, will inevitably be farmed to the ground by someone that learns how to run the challenge in their sleep.

Supposedly the TP is to be the great equalizer, where if you can’t run the challenge directly you can run for gold and buy the item you want instead. Except that there is no end point for how much gold a “farmer” can generate, and so we are looking at what can best be described as hyperinflation. Too much gold fighting for too little produce.

And that is before we consider what effect TP flippers have in concentrating gold in a few hands. Yes, the TP have taxes built in. But flippers account for that in their trading, and so still run a profit. End result is that the rest of the community is covering their taxes…

digiowl.9620:

I think GW2’s problem in all this is that just about anything can be traded on the TP.

As such anything that is not behind a straight up RNG, will inevitably be farmed to the ground by someone that learns how to run the challenge in their sleep.

Supposedly the TP is to be the great equalizer, where if you can’t run the challenge directly you can run for gold and buy the item you want instead. Except that there is no end point for how much gold a “farmer” can generate, and so we are looking at what can best be described as hyperinflation. Too much gold fighting for too little produce.

And that is before we consider what effect TP flippers have in concentrating gold in a few hands. Yes, the TP have taxes built in. But flippers account for that in their trading, and so still run a profit. End result is that the rest of the community is covering their taxes…

I’m sorry, what is your point exactly?

Black Dragon.3784:

So that token idea has already been invented but in the form of gold. RNG is just an add on that could speed things up with luck.

… and gold farming becomes the only way to do anything with measurable progress.

There is also a fairness issue. For example with LA right now(because it offers extremes). I could rescue a million citizens and basically get nothing while someone else who rescued zero could get the best drop.

If you believe that fairness is not necessary then there is not much else to say. If you believe it is necessary then the current system is broken.

I don’t like it because of the randomness. It is just pure dumb luck.

I would much rather be able to work toward something rather than rely on pure dumb luck

I can play this game for the entire time the servers are up and never get a precursor because it is pure dumb luck while the next guy can get 10 precursors within their first 6 months of play because of pure dumb luck

You may like it, good for you. I don’t, screw RNG.

I’m totally fine with RNG itself but it’s just that in some cases it just seems so lopsided where player A seems to get all of the good drops compared to player B.