Guild Wars 2

Now there is this trend I have seen in every class’ community that has irked me for a while and still does.

I sincerely want to ask, why do some people pick a class then demand another classes base philosophy or mechanic?

Balance is entirely different, and it is important to balance for a competitive and diverse atmosphere.

But I mean base mechanics? As just one example, and there are many others on any class, Why is a Necro asking for stealth? And wanting not to absorb hits? (Just saw this.)

Why do some thieves ask for attrition? Why do ‘etc’…

If you want those things why can’t you just re-roll the class who’s mechanics you’d enjoy way more in question? I.E. the said Necro above roll Thief or Mesmer, and vice versa, in any scenario for any class…

People honestly act like they are locked into one character forever in this game. New play styles, great! I’m all for it. Changing complete base mechanics to mimick others? What is the point? Please, explain this to me.

GW1 my fav was Nec/Rng
A: GW1 holdouts?

Because we know balance is important from a development standpoint, but don’t really care. Some requests are reasonable, others not so much. We wanna do what we wanna do, human nature.

I have never heard this sort of complaint from anyone. If you actually encounter this why not just tell them to play another class? It really is that simple.

Because I wan’t to know why. I want to understand. Help me see.

I don’t like not knowing and not understanding.

And this is everywhere. It is when classes ask for what other’s have that go into in depth mechanics. Like asking for an elite spec for ranger without pets. If you chose playing ranger, you chose to have a pet, that is it’s defining thing. If you dislike the pet’s AI (understandable) or as a mechanic, then play one of the other 7 classes?

If you look out for it, you will see it almost every day in game, and I must know why.

Because knowing is half the battle.

Your view on class mechanics is far too rigid. For example, there is absolutely no fundamental reason why a ranger can’t work without pets. Every player has a view on what would be ideal for various aspects of the game, and they are all valid. But as I said earlier, the degrees of ‘reasonableness’ vary.

My question isn’t to do with them working or not without pets. It is that they dislike the ranger mechanic and want another yet won’t just roll another class on an alternate character.

That is what my basis is. I want to know why not just roll the class you want to emulate?

Here’s an insight into a specific case. I have a friend who likes archers. His first online game was GW, and he played a ranger. Many of his builds did not include a pet. In GW2, he currently does not have that option. He really dislikes the pet mechanic, but he still seems to prefer ranger over thief or warrior. If he could play with ranger bow, but have burst skills like a warrior, or virtues like guards, or something akin to a tool-belt, he’d be all over it.

So, with some, it’s going to be a specific thing about a desired profession mechanic that irks. With others, it’s going to be a theory crafting thing, where they are considering how they could be OP by combining one profession’s mechanic with another profession’s skills. With still others it will be a liking for a mechanic, but preferring some other aspect of a different profession (which may or may not be build related).

IndigoSundown.5419:

Here’s an insight into a specific case. I have a friend who likes archers. His first online game was GW, and he played a ranger. Many of his builds did not include a pet. In GW2, he currently does not have that option. He really dislikes the pet mechanic, but he still seems to prefer ranger over thief or warrior. If he could play with ranger bow, but have burst skills like a warrior, or virtues like guards, or something akin to a tool-belt, he’d be all over it.

So, with some, it’s going to be a specific thing about a desired profession mechanic that irks. With others, it’s going to be a theory crafting thing, where they are considering how they could be OP by combining one profession’s mechanic with another profession’s skills. With still others it will be a liking for a mechanic, but preferring some other aspect of a different profession (which may or may not be build related).

What luck your friend is in then as Guardians will be Dragonhunters!

IndigoSundown.5419:

Here’s an insight into a specific case. I have a friend who likes archers. His first online game was GW, and he played a ranger. Many of his builds did not include a pet. In GW2, he currently does not have that option. He really dislikes the pet mechanic, but he still seems to prefer ranger over thief or warrior. If he could play with ranger bow, but have burst skills like a warrior, or virtues like guards, or something akin to a tool-belt, he’d be all over it.

bu bu but thief is the best ranger in the game imho

I started with ranger in gw1, but then I deleted it and rolled a nec/rng
I started with ranger in gw2, but then I deleted it and rolled a thief (d/d stealth SB thief 06620)
I prefer archer in most games too. I’m quite happy with my archer thief as it is, don’t want it changed.

Jahroots.6791:

Your view on class mechanics is far too rigid. For example, there is absolutely no fundamental reason why a ranger can’t work without pets.

Sure, but why would you want to be more generic? Because in the end, unique aspects of classes are what defines them as classes. Mechanical difference is what makes them dependent on each other in the first place.

because there’s more than one mechanic per class.

for example:
I would looove to be stealthy. but, I absolutely LOVE longbows. but the thief doesn’t have a longbow, and no longbow classes have a focus on stealth.

I always enjoyed archeages idea of having your skill trees determine what class you are. I could grab archery, stealth, AND healing! all 3 of my favorite things.

and I bet if there was another class that was exactly like ranger but without a pet, they would re-roll. but there’s more to being a ranger than just the pet, get what i’m saying?

PistolWhip.2697:

My question isn’t to do with them working or not without pets. It is that they dislike the ranger mechanic and want another yet won’t just roll another class on an alternate character.

That is what my basis is. I want to know why not just roll the class you want to emulate?

Maybe because such a class doesn’t exist? When people are asking for some mechanics that you consider a property of specific class, it doesn’t mean they want to play that class. As ypu have mentioned, the way every class is played is different. What if we’re already playing the class that fits us best, but we see that something that other class has would fit our playstyle even if said class as a whole doesn’t appeal to us?
Single feature does not make a class.

Because I may like aspects of certain classes without preferring them outright?

I chose Ranger because it had the greatest potential range in the game and I like that. .

That said, I also kind of like the glass-cannon movement/evasion-heavy nature of thieves and the ability to wield a rifle a la Warrior. If you could mix all three of those I’d be far more satisfied with my class.

*I know rifle thief may be coming which will likely provide something more akin to what I want, but its too late now. My main’s a ranger and there’s no way to readily change that. Time’s like this I really miss FFXIV’s armoury system… :-(

For me, I don’t have any issues with any class
-but.. I make most of my characters based on other characters, from shows and games, so if I don’t like the class skills, pet, or stealth etc, I just have to get over it, or decide not to make that RP character.

I can honestly say that I do not want stealth for my Necros.

I would like to have access to better stability, some healing for my main health bar while in DS, and perhaps my utilities while in DS.

If I can’t have access to those things, then some leaps, gap closers, or charges would be appreciated. I don’t want all things under the sun, moon, and stars. A few would be greatly appreciated.

I would also appreciate some skill cast times to be adjusted. When you play other classes and then play a Necro you can see a huge difference in skill activation and interrupts along with large misses because the enemy has moved on and stopped for a quick coffee before your skill has been cast.

Getting hit is part of the game but with DS you end up frozen in time against real enemies, unable to heal.

This is not about being like another class, it is about having an equal opportunity in a fight as the enemy. Necros have some strengths and some very good tools in certain fights, but there are whole areas of this game that they are considered worthless compared to others.

All classes should be desired in all aspects of this game in some way, shape, or form. This is a tough challenge, but it is required nonetheless.

chefdiablo.6791:

I can honestly say that I do not want stealth for my Necros.

I would like to have access to better stability, some healing for my main health bar while in DS, and perhaps my utilities while in DS.

If I can’t have access to those things, then some leaps, gap closers, or charges would be appreciated. I don’t want all things under the sun, moon, and stars. A few would be greatly appreciated.

I would also appreciate some skill cast times to be adjusted. When you play other classes and then play a Necro you can see a huge difference in skill activation and interrupts along with large misses because the enemy has moved on and stopped for a quick coffee before your skill has been cast.

Getting hit is part of the game but with DS you end up frozen in time against real enemies, unable to heal.

This is not about being like another class, it is about having an equal opportunity in a fight as the enemy. Necros have some strengths and some very good tools in certain fights, but there are whole areas of this game that they are considered worthless compared to others.

All classes should be desired in all aspects of this game in some way, shape, or form. This is a tough challenge, but it is required nonetheless.

That is more than reasonable though, and I can see why. Fixing already existent mechanics to bring classes to par should be the basis of every balance decision.

I am more so curious on those that reject a base philosophy behind a class after picking it.

Honestly this thread has been very informative, and despite my lack of replies I am reading all responses and feel enlightened to know why people have such a desire for their class. I appreciate all the feedback.

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

What luck your friend is in then as Guardians will be Dragonhunters!

Daywolf.2630:

bu bu but thief is the best ranger in the game imho

He has a Guard and a Thief at 80, He still prefers the ranger bow to thief, based on a variety of factors, some of them aesthetic. While I’m pretty sure he will buy HoT for his wife, I’m not sure he will get it for himself. If he does, I’m sure he’ll try DH on Guardian, as well as seeing how the new Ranger class mechanic works with a longbow. Jury’s still out on whether either will be good, though.

I want ranger without a pet because I like ranger’s abilities and weapon attacks.

I just hate dealing with that stupid pet.

Jahroots.6791:

We wanna do what we wanna do

PistolWhip.2697:

I am more so curious on those that reject a base philosophy behind a class after picking it.

Perhaps they don’t consider it a base philosophy at all.

Well, with rangers it is probably that we didn’t have forced pets in gw1, most didn’t use them, and our class wasn’t even built around them(it was built around being better at every other class and crazy archery). Now we have forced pets, and they are more liability than asset. I am fairly confident that if pets were removed and ranger damage tweaked to compensate, they would no longer be considered bottom tier.

For other classes, more is about how anet advertised them. For instance, I know anet goes crazy saying thief is an acrobatic character much more than it mentions stealth, but rangers are more acrobatic for sure. Rangers are “masters of range” in the promo literature, but we know they are really melee range beastmasters. Engineers are master tech guys, but really they are just grenade dispensers. Ect…

So people get sold on a class, and then only find out after they are too deep that it is missing something crucial to the theme they thought the class was based on.

I’m not following this at all. Stealth isn’t a base mechanic of any class. It is a mechanic that is heavily used by the Thief class. The Thief base mechanic is stealing and also not having a cooldown on weapon skills.

What is attrition, and what are you considering it the mechanic of? What do you mean don’t want to absorb hits? I don’t understand that, and also what class do you think this “mechanic” belongs to?

Just because a class is very good at something doesn’t mean they own that thing. It doesn’t mean that thing might not fit another class thematically.

Ultimately, though, the answer is probably because someone will always want everything and want to be OP.

But if everyone wants everything what will the point of classes be? I suppose this just goes hand in hand with how I feel professions/classes should be a far higher defining factor in a person’s experience.

I started playing GW1 about 3 months after it’s launch and one of the things that was important there thematically was the class you picked. I enjoyed that aspect, and felt like it gave each profession an identity. As an assassin for example there really was lore references among characters asking how far your ethics went on contract killing. Don’t get me started on Mesmer magic and Necromancy controversies.

I have always felt GW2 lacks a severe case of profession identity. In mechanics it is somewhat present, but in the environment and atmosphere? I have never felt it, and I would have loved it to be far more of an identity defining factor as a character than one’s race. It would show what profession you picked based on the type of person you are. We don’t even get much background lore on them.

Why is this relevant? Well, I suppose this opinion is why I am staunchly against any homogenization of class themes and mechanics. So this is why it has irked me, but it has been interesting to see these responses, truly.

Jahroots.6791:

Because we know balance is important from a development standpoint, but don’t really care. Some requests are reasonable, others not so much. We wanna do what we wanna do, human nature.

Mmm-unacceptable.

Rule of Cute and Rule of Cool. Look them up, and you’ll understand.

And its often justified.

IndigoSundown.5419:

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

What luck your friend is in then as Guardians will be Dragonhunters!

Daywolf.2630:

bu bu but thief is the best ranger in the game imho

He has a Guard and a Thief at 80, He still prefers the ranger bow to thief, based on a variety of factors, some of them aesthetic. While I’m pretty sure he will buy HoT for his wife, I’m not sure he will get it for himself. If he does, I’m sure he’ll try DH on Guardian, as well as seeing how the new Ranger class mechanic works with a longbow. Jury’s still out on whether either will be good, though.

True, and I like guard, but I doubt guard will get the mobility with that longbow, but I’m sure it will have other strengths. I have one, I’m sure I’ll play around with it.

Why is thief a better ranger… than ranger? …beyond me just hating the lb ranger? It has stealth, or some stealth reasonably. It’s the fastest class/build in the game, master of terrain. The shortbow is a multi-target weapon, a 5 bounce (#1 trick shot) and the quickest delay. If you dump a lot of direct damage stats in for the SB, it’s a wonderful farming tool, on par with any other aoe/cone weapon of choice for farming in groups. Then thief can have a dual wield melee on swap, effectively, which is nice when you want to dps a single target down rather than multi with the bow.

If I had a blindfold on (or blinding powdered), took a tasters test, I’d be scratching my head when they tell me I chose wrong, that that that other one is a “ranger”. Whaaaa?? Duuude…

But thief has some other builds, so the class title not needed, doesn’t fit universally. Then sadly every ranger is a pet class by default, and the LB is far overused and quite annoying to melee classes with that KB. The word annoying being and understatement.

Ive been playing Necrmancer since launch. I guess that makes me an outsider, considering the class has been all but abandoned except a select few. We’ll see after Friday if I change my mind or not.