Guild Wars 2

So the ascended gear was introduced to spoil the treadmill lovers from other games.

So.. Why didn’t they just add infusion slots to the already existing exotics so that those who wanted to grind for “better” gear in PvE could do so, and those who wanted to be on an equal foot with everyone else in WvW didn’t have to do so?

nightwulf.1986:

For everyone saying that Fractals introduced item progression (I think I hear some people saying that), I don’t think we should so readily dismiss the fact that Anet stated prior to the game even launching that there would be level increases beyond 80 for expansions.

There were several contradicting informations about level caps throughout the development process. One of the options, for example, was “infinite progress” levelling, where levels actually didn’t mean anything. The one thing that was common to all of those however, was the feeling that even if there would be level increases in the future, they’d be minor inconvenience at most (since you’d be able to gain them relatively fast, and getting top eq was supposed to be easy)

Now, exotics were not exactly as easy as originally advertised, but were a known quality – before Nov 15th most people thinking about future level increases (not many, because devs did a great job in not exactly advertising them) would have expected the new top lev eq to be immediately accessible from drops, updated karma\dungeon\WvWvW vendors, and crafting (with possible delay if new levels of crafting were to be introduced as well). They would also have expected this new top level eq to belong to already existing tiers (since it was heavily suggested that exotics will stay the best).

Yes, nothing like that has been explicitly promised, so we can’t actually say anyone broke their word. What i could say however is that what we got was wildly different from the image the game was advertised under up to that point.

Even in guild wars 1, you had to level and you had to get gear to help you survive. In GW2, they stretched out the leveling process a lot more than in GW1. Actually, I remember Prophecies taking a heck of long time to level in and then by the time nightfall was released, they had really buffed the amount of exp you got from doing quests and missions so leveling was a lot faster. The original GW2 design philosophy incorporated some things that I don’t think people either paid attention to or just didn’t like from the start and tried to ignore. Notably, they gave people 80 levels. Not 20. This signaled a significant change in terms of what they thought people would want/accept in terms of long term progression.

Moreover, I don’t think simply adding new tiers of gear is against their original design philosophy. They largely stated that they wanted to take what you hated about standard mmo conventions and make them better. That’s why instead of abolishing resource nodes altogether because you had to compete for them before, they simply made them non-competitive. That’s why instead of forcing you to group to gain any experience while questing, they made dynamic events with an open contribution mechanism. In other words, I don’t think Anet is telling you that you can’t have build and skill diversity and must have item progression. I think they are trying to give you that and give other people item progression as well while attempting to minimize the impact item progression has on gameplay compared to other games. There is something to be said for that tactic. As other people have said before, you can’t please everyone. Finding middle ground is tough.

Because some people are incapable of understanding that RPGs don’t need to be about mindless grinding for slightly larger numbers, and ANet decided to throw their entire design premise of the game out the window (and their credibility with it) to please said people.

Because ANET sold out.

Sollith.3502:

It’s funny, in my opinion there is no “progression” with gear progression (or even levels for that matter); they only provide an illusion of progression. All they do is burn time in most games, because people don’t really care about the “role-playing” part of games anymore; all people care about is their kitten kitten.

They could easily have implemented some sort of horizontal progression instead of a vertical with Ascended. Why not have special equipment (maybe even add in an extra slot for certain “special equips”) that do certain things:

Vindictus

• Chains: groups can use these to “pin” bosses temporarily. In easier battles they only take one player (and sometimes quite a bit of skill to hit the right spot), but in more difficult boss battles they can take two or three players chaining simultaneously to get that pin.
• Spears: Can be used to break off certain pieces of boss armor to obtain special crafting ingredients in certain battles. Also, can be sometimes be used to stun an enemy.

Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time

• Hookshot: Used to get to certain areas
• Hover boots: Boot equipment used to float and cross certain areas.

Why can’t they just do this kind of stuff here? Have special items that grant a special skill or power (hover boots) to overcome certain challenges in dungeons (even have some areas that require them in open world too)?

Also, you wouldn’t have to require all members in a group to have the item either. I mean wouldn’t it be cool to have special paths that can be opened by having someone have an item like a hook shot? Kind of like official versions of certain glitches where players get to certain areas they couldn’t normally by using certain skills.

Have them be obtained through long quest chains, maybe a bit of dungeon grinding for a different item, crafting for another, maybe a mix for that other item; vary it up a bit.

I have been thinking about something just like this so many times. It would be such a breath of fresh air in the current state of MMOs. Giving people reason to find certain items, not to gain power in NUMBERS but enabling them to explore new areas etc. It would be a true horizontal progression. Just being creative with content unlocks so many different ways to gain progression without relying on better and better gear (which isn’t better when everyone has it anyway) and farming the same dungeon over and over and over.

Are the devs lacking in creativity or energy to do something like this? I wouldn’t like to think so. But the unimaginative solutions of so many MMOs makes me wonder what the problem is stopping something like this from happening.

When I first played GW1, I thought it was absolutely ludicrous that one had merely 20 levels. After playing EQ1 and never reaching cap (not willing to grind forever,) I thought that GW1 would die, because at level 20, all gear for a given profession was the same except for skins. I thought that nobody would play after reaching level cap, and that it would be more like a console game. Congratulations, you won, here’s your reward, and that’s the end of that. Once I reached cap, there was a sense of “now what”…for all of about 30 seconds until I discovered GvG, RA, TA, and so forth. It was then that I found how wonderful GW1 really was, and the level 20 cap didn’t mean much.

So, here we are in GW2. I love GW2. I love that there’s more than 20 levels. I love that eventually, there may be more levels. Getting to 80 wasn’t a grind. In fact, I have heard that someone did it within the first few days.

Having the same stats on armor at level cap never bothered me either, nor did the idea that every other character of my level and class had the same capabilities and build possibilities that I did. That’s the way GW1 was. I don’t care if I can’t have legendary armor right now. The game is only a few months old… If I get it someday, then great, but for now, I am happy in my exotics.

What does bother me is that this is not how I pictured end-game to be. This is not Guild Wars. This is Join A Guild and Get To Cap to Zerg WvWvW… The closest thing to actual progression that we have in PvP is sPvP, in that one has to keep winning to keep playing. Unfortunately, there’s no sense of progression or leaderboards. And God forbid that 20 of my guildies want to go beat up on 20 pf someone else’s guildies. There’s just not an outlet for that. In truth, I miss being able to hit a button and watch an epic GvG battle that happened in the past.

If there were a concerted effort to make a GvG arena, and allow an actual Guild Progression Leaderboard, then maybe everyone who is complaining that their uber gear isn’t uber enough might have something to do that shows progression rather than that +1 to their stats. Then it would be GUILDWARS 2…

It is terribly disheartening for me personally to think that a vocal minority of gear phreaks has trumped the basic design premise of “Guild” wars.

TLDR; I don’t care about vertical progression. Armor is Armor, and it always has been, as it was in GW1. I would rather see actual competition and progression that doesn’t involve a +1 to your gear…

Danikat.8537:

What you’ve described is vertical progression.

Especially in the Legend of Zelda games where you literally cannot go to the next dungeon and therefore cannot progress the story until you’ve got the special item from the one preceeding it.

Er no, it’s not. Not in the slightest. I’m actually questioning whether you understand what vertical progression is, so I’m going to provide the definition for you.

Vertical progression is a model of game design whereby the designers continually obligate the player to obtain new gear that significantly improves their power levels so that they can contend with newer, stronger foes. This leads to a disparity in power level whereby you are generally MUCH stronger at the “top level” than you are at the bottom.

In general, LoZ games do not force you to obtain stronger gear for the sake of killing tougher enemies, in fact (in general) you can run many Zelda games using few-to-none of these items against the toughest monsters. Most of these games revolve around the Master Sword being the “best” sword and once you have it, you generally don’t replace it because the next dungeon of enemies demands a bigger and better sword. Most LoZ games are completable using the Master Sword as your only combat weapon, and the sword generally takes the same number of swings to kill a guy at the start of the game versus the end of the game (with a few noted exceptions). Instead, the items are required because the puzzle nature of the game demands it, not because you’re obligated to attain a particular power level before progressing. Link’s ability to stab monsters to death with his sword is not improved by him obtaining a scale that allows him to dive deeper in water, or by finding a Hookshot.

What the poster is describing is the concept of “intangibles”, items that provide a player with new abilities and powers that they didn’t have before. Not necessarily things that make them stronger, but things that allow them to go more places and do more than they could originally. An analogy in GW2 would be a mesmer’s portals….they don’t make it “stronger” in terms of stats, but they grant it a whole new type of play style that gives them a fun and unique experience.

GW2 needs more of these, and less of this “seek out the new best tier of gear”.

Asumita.2174:

well, what else can you add so people will keep playing? More skins? sooner or later anet will have to raise the level cap as they add new expansions, and along with that will come higher tiers. Mark my words.

Huh, really? They HAVE to? Well, that’s strange.

Maybe my memory’s a bit fuzzy, but I seem to remember this old game released back in 2005 that had a model built around horizontal progression, who constantly introduced new skins, new intangibles (as described above), and new modes of play to make the game more fun to play, allowed greater diversity in characters and builds, and allowed it to be played in more ways. And they had not only several free patches but also multiple paid expansions, and achieved lasting financial success.

Perhaps you’ve heard of it. It was called Guild Wars 1.

The assertion that GW2 could not survive without vertical progression is absolute fiction.

critickitten.1498:

Danikat.8537:

What you’ve described is vertical progression.

Especially in the Legend of Zelda games where you literally cannot go to the next dungeon and therefore cannot progress the story until you’ve got the special item from the one preceeding it.

Er no, it’s not. Not in the slightest. I’m actually questioning whether you understand what vertical progression is, so I’m going to provide the definition for you.

Vertical progression is a model of game design whereby the designers continually obligate the player to obtain new gear that significantly improves their power levels so that they can contend with newer, stronger foes. This leads to a disparity in power level whereby you are generally MUCH stronger at the “top level” than you are at the bottom.

In general, LoZ games do not force you to obtain stronger gear for the sake of killing tougher enemies, in fact (in general) you can run many Zelda games using few-to-none of these items against the toughest monsters. Most of these games revolve around the Master Sword being the “best” sword and once you have it, you generally don’t replace it because the next dungeon of enemies demands a bigger and better sword. Most LoZ games are completable using the Master Sword as your only combat weapon, and the sword generally takes the same number of swings to kill a guy at the start of the game versus the end of the game (with a few noted exceptions). Instead, the items are required because the puzzle nature of the game demands it, not because you’re obligated to attain a particular power level before progressing. Link’s ability to stab monsters to death with his sword is not improved by him obtaining a scale that allows him to dive deeper in water, or by finding a Hookshot.

What the poster is describing is the concept of “intangibles”, items that provide a player with new abilities and powers that they didn’t have before. Not necessarily things that make them stronger, but things that allow them to go more places and do more than they could originally. An analogy in GW2 would be a mesmer’s portals….they don’t make it “stronger” in terms of stats, but they grant it a whole new type of play style that gives them a fun and unique experience.

GW2 needs more of these, and less of this “seek out the new best tier of gear”.

Asumita.2174:

well, what else can you add so people will keep playing? More skins? sooner or later anet will have to raise the level cap as they add new expansions, and along with that will come higher tiers. Mark my words.

Huh, really? They HAVE to? Well, that’s strange.

Maybe my memory’s a bit fuzzy, but I seem to remember this old game released back in 2005 that had a model built around horizontal progression, who constantly introduced new skins, new intangibles (as described above), and new modes of play to make the game more fun to play, allowed greater diversity in characters and builds, and allowed it to be played in more ways. And they had not only several free patches but also multiple paid expansions, and achieved lasting financial success.

Perhaps you’ve heard of it. It was called Guild Wars 1.

The assertion that GW2 could not survive without vertical progression is absolute fiction.

Please explain horizontal progression, I am un aware of what that is exactly :-)

Lasss.8169:

Please explain horizontal progression, I am un aware of what that is exactly :-)

Okay.

Whereas vertical progression is a model whose purpose is to keep players playing by introducing new tiers and levels, and stronger sets of gear with each release, horizontal progression is a model whereby, upon reaching the game’s “max level”, the character’s progression is generally cosmetic or effect-based.

Players seek out gear not because it’s got the best stats but because they like the appearance of it. Players can obtain new powers that give them abilities they didn’t have before without making them statistically stronger.

Legendary gear was supposed to work in this fashion, giving players gear that LOOKS impressive but doesn’t make them stronger. However, with the promise of future vertical progression, this purpose has been somewhat lost in favor of another purpose: protection against future grind. In GW1, this effect was achieved with “elite” armor skins that were much more expensive than regular armors but not at all stronger, just visually appealing vanity items. Players loved going after these kinds of items because it gave them more of a unique appearance. More skins, as opposed to more tiers and levels, provides greater customization.

The mesmer portal example is one example of how this already works in the game, and it works to GREAT effect (perhaps even too great to be honest). Mesmers have used these portals in a variety of ways to enhance the game’s cooperative play and added a new dimension to the game’s combat that has to be accounted for (which is why often when a WvW team takes a keep, they immediately do a “mesmer sweep” to make sure there aren’t mesmers sitting in the base waiting to portal bomb the keep when they aren’t looking).

Another that I think would be a good addition to the game is to allow engineers to use “Jump Shot” to scale keep walls in a single leap by extending the range. This would give them an added dimension in WvW that wouldn’t make them more powerful, yet would give them very useful functionality that can create more havok for enemy keep defenders, giving them more of a unique role and adding extra dimension to the game.

It’s this sort of intangible, non-numerical functionality that makes the game far more fun than a simple chase-the-best-gear sort of game can hope to be.

critickitten.1498:

Lasss.8169:

Please explain horizontal progression, I am un aware of what that is exactly :-)

Okay.

Whereas vertical progression is a model whose purpose is to keep players playing by introducing new tiers and levels, and stronger sets of gear with each release, horizontal progression is a model whereby, upon reaching the game’s “max level”, the character’s progression is generally cosmetic or effect-based.

Players seek out gear not because it’s got the best stats but because they like the appearance of it. Players can obtain new powers that give them abilities they didn’t have before without making them statistically stronger.

Legendary gear was supposed to work in this fashion, giving players gear that LOOKS impressive but doesn’t make them stronger. However, with the promise of future vertical progression, this purpose has been somewhat lost in favor of another purpose: protection against future grind. In GW1, this effect was achieved with “elite” armor skins that were much more expensive than regular armors but not at all stronger, just visually appealing vanity items. Players loved going after these kinds of items because it gave them more of a unique appearance. More skins, as opposed to more tiers and levels, provides greater customization.

The mesmer portal example is one example of how this already works in the game, and it works to GREAT effect (perhaps even too great to be honest). Mesmers have used these portals in a variety of ways to enhance the game’s cooperative play and added a new dimension to the game’s combat that has to be accounted for (which is why often when a WvW team takes a keep, they immediately do a “mesmer sweep” to make sure there aren’t mesmers sitting in the base waiting to portal bomb the keep when they aren’t looking).

Another that I think would be a good addition to the game is to allow engineers to use “Jump Shot” to scale keep walls in a single leap by extending the range. This would give them an added dimension in WvW that wouldn’t make them more powerful, yet would give them very useful functionality that can create more havok for enemy keep defenders, giving them more of a unique role and adding extra dimension to the game.

It’s this sort of intangible, non-numerical functionality that makes the game far more fun than a simple chase-the-best-gear sort of game can hope to be.

Thank you for that.
And I do agree on horizontal being the more fun progression type. At least for me.
I hate the stat chase to keep being on equal feet as everyone else, vertical progression offers.
The, IMO, stunning appearance of the shortbow Aether is something that I actually look forward to grin for, whereas the stat increase of the ascended rings is something I am irritated TO HAVE TO grind for, to say the least.

But the fact that ascended gear will be obtainable through different aspects of the game makes it much more appealing.

SonicTHI.3217:

Because ANET sold out.

This ^

It really doesn’t, but then again why not? Really, so long as they make it just as available as exotics (which they are in the process of doing) it doesn’t affect the game either way.

The ascended gear was a bad move no matter how you look at it and the increased stat gap will do nothing but hurt the game and more importantly, its players. It will become just another barrier the players has to overcome before they can enjoy the game at its best.

One of the original selling points, at least to me and my friends, of the game was in fact the [mostly] horizontal progression and with ascended gear being added, it has been blown out of the water.

“LFM AC explorable, level 80/ascended only pls”

Conncept.7638:

It really doesn’t, but then again why not? Really, so long as they make it just as available as exotics (which they are in the process of doing) it doesn’t affect the game either way.

If it’s going to be as available as exotics then there’s absolutely no point in having any level 80 exotics in the game. Exotics will be redundant.

Deroy.2457:

Conncept.7638:

It really doesn’t, but then again why not? Really, so long as they make it just as available as exotics (which they are in the process of doing) it doesn’t affect the game either way.

If it’s going to be as available as exotics then there’s absolutely no point in having any level 80 exotics in the game. Exotics will be redundant.

But if that’s true, then under the old systems, rares were redundant. And if level 80 rares were made the highest tier, level 80 masterwork would be redundant.

Unless we have one tier of gear, anything below it will be ‘redundant’, as you put it. So long as the bar is set, so that people know where to reach, it doesn’t even matter where it’s set.

I haven’t really played other MMO’s but are gear treadmills typically accompanied by new content? I would have been angry if Anet just decided to roll out new gear and tell us the only way to acquire it is to run old dungeons but they didn’t. They released/will release a bunch of new content to go along with the slight gear progression. t does not seem that big a deal to me and if it will help player retention/sales then I am more than okay with it.

Also, do you think ascended weapons/gear will have new skins? If so, that I am 100000000% okay with it!

I imagine that by the time they rolled out ascended gear for all 16 slots several months down the road, it will be time for a major content release via an expansion. Most probably it will come with a new level cap which Anet said will come eventually like for example L100, we can begin all over again with L100 ascended rings+back first, a few months later, L100 ascended amulets and so on.

Conncept.7638:

Deroy.2457:

Conncept.7638:

It really doesn’t, but then again why not? Really, so long as they make it just as available as exotics (which they are in the process of doing) it doesn’t affect the game either way.

If it’s going to be as available as exotics then there’s absolutely no point in having any level 80 exotics in the game. Exotics will be redundant.

But if that’s true, then under the old systems, rares were redundant. And if level 80 rares were made the highest tier, level 80 masterwork would be redundant.

Unless we have one tier of gear, anything below it will be ‘redundant’, as you put it. So long as the bar is set, so that people know where to reach, it doesn’t even matter where it’s set.

The issue lies within bars that are not set and kept. For those that have obtained their exotics and have reached their potential, adding another tier now lowers them vs. their new potential. How many more tiers are there going to be? How fast are they going to be implemented? How much power creep is going to set in? So many questions with potential negative impacts that could all be resolved with a horizontal progression

Anchorwind.9016:

Conncept.7638:

Deroy.2457:

Conncept.7638:

It really doesn’t, but then again why not? Really, so long as they make it just as available as exotics (which they are in the process of doing) it doesn’t affect the game either way.

If it’s going to be as available as exotics then there’s absolutely no point in having any level 80 exotics in the game. Exotics will be redundant.

But if that’s true, then under the old systems, rares were redundant. And if level 80 rares were made the highest tier, level 80 masterwork would be redundant.

Unless we have one tier of gear, anything below it will be ‘redundant’, as you put it. So long as the bar is set, so that people know where to reach, it doesn’t even matter where it’s set.

The issue lies within bars that are not set and kept. For those that have obtained their exotics and have reached their potential, adding another tier now lowers them vs. their new potential. How many more tiers are there going to be? How fast are they going to be implemented? How much power creep is going to set in? So many questions with potential negative impacts that could all be resolved with a horizontal progression

You don’t know how many tiers will be added, I don’t know how many, ANet probably doesn’t know how many at this point. But we could both benefit from not assuming the worst at the first sign of trouble; and as things are now, ascended hasn’t really affected the game for the worst, other than requiring a few more hours of your time to max out your WvW builds.

To answer the Original Question: “Why does ascended armor need better stats?” The answer is ‘It doesn’t.’ Agony Resistance and all other stats are not inherently related. This move has perhaps dangled the carrot for some, alienated others, but for people like me: Wait and See. A Ruby Orichalcum Ring of the Berserker [Exotic] is 92 Power/ 63 Precision and 6% Critical Damage boost. The Red Ring of Death [Ascended] is 103 Power/68 Precision and 8% Critical Damage boost. The latter hits harder, criticals more often and criticals for more damage. How wide would the gap be between a fully Exotic Grade person and a fully Ascended grade person? We don’t know yet [hence wait and see] but it might be significant enough to a) drive more people away from the game, and/or b) drive more people into [insert ascended farming method here].

Conncept.7638:

But if that’s true, then under the old systems, rares were also redundant. And if level 80 rares were made the highest tier, level 80 masterwork would be redundant. It doesn’t matter where they set the highest tier, whatever is beneath it will be sub-par compared to it.

Unless we have one tier of gear, anything below it will be ‘redundant’, as you put it. So long as the bar is set, it doesn’t matter where.

Exotics are not as accessible as rares.

Basic 1+ || Coin / Drops
Fine 1+ || Crafting / Karma / Drops / WvW
Masterwork 14+ || Crafting / Karma / Drops / WvW
Rare 35+ || Coin (Cultural) / Karma (Cultural) / Dungeon / Crafting (Recipe) / Drops / WvW
Exotic 62+ || Drops
Exotic 80+ || Drops / Karma / Dungeon / Crafting (Recipe) / WvW

It’s worth noting that the player won’t make the next quality a standard immediately and will slowly dig into the next one. Exotic quality only become a players new standard once they hit 80.

68+ rares becomes the primary source of Globs of Ectoplasm once the player starts digging into Exotic quality. No, rares are not redundant.

Anchorwind.9016:

Conncept.7638:

Deroy.2457:

Conncept.7638:

It really doesn’t, but then again why not? Really, so long as they make it just as available as exotics (which they are in the process of doing) it doesn’t affect the game either way.

If it’s going to be as available as exotics then there’s absolutely no point in having any level 80 exotics in the game. Exotics will be redundant.

But if that’s true, then under the old systems, rares were redundant. And if level 80 rares were made the highest tier, level 80 masterwork would be redundant.

Unless we have one tier of gear, anything below it will be ‘redundant’, as you put it. So long as the bar is set, so that people know where to reach, it doesn’t even matter where it’s set.

The issue lies within bars that are not set and kept. For those that have obtained their exotics and have reached their potential, adding another tier now lowers them vs. their new potential. How many more tiers are there going to be? How fast are they going to be implemented? How much power creep is going to set in? So many questions with potential negative impacts that could all be resolved with a horizontal progression

Didn’t they say that they aren’t adding any new tiers for the foreseeable future? I don’t remember the exact quote but that sounded like answering some of those questions/concerns you have there. I agree that what they did wasn’t something that they made clear they were going to do initially but I disagree that it was entirely out of line with where the game was going from the beginning. There was a part of the community that wanted a new tier/something new to work towards and they addressed that need. I also believe that they are listening to concerns of a different part of the community with concerns of power creep which is why they made public statements about not adding tiers beyond ascended in the near future.

If adding ascended in and of itself is a deal breaker, so be it. Make your concerns known, and they may incorporate them into future content. Compromises are made in design. The community is bigger than you and I. There will be parts we all really enjoy and some we really don’t like. Ascended for me doesn’t bother me because their statements and actions haven’t lead me to believe they intend to go Wow style power creep….yet.

nightwulf.1986:

Anchorwind.9016:

Conncept.7638:

Deroy.2457:

Conncept.7638:

It really doesn’t, but then again why not? Really, so long as they make it just as available as exotics (which they are in the process of doing) it doesn’t affect the game either way.

If it’s going to be as available as exotics then there’s absolutely no point in having any level 80 exotics in the game. Exotics will be redundant.

But if that’s true, then under the old systems, rares were redundant. And if level 80 rares were made the highest tier, level 80 masterwork would be redundant.

Unless we have one tier of gear, anything below it will be ‘redundant’, as you put it. So long as the bar is set, so that people know where to reach, it doesn’t even matter where it’s set.

The issue lies within bars that are not set and kept. For those that have obtained their exotics and have reached their potential, adding another tier now lowers them vs. their new potential. How many more tiers are there going to be? How fast are they going to be implemented? How much power creep is going to set in? So many questions with potential negative impacts that could all be resolved with a horizontal progression

Didn’t they say that they aren’t adding any new tiers for the foreseeable future? I don’t remember the exact quote but that sounded like answering some of those questions/concerns you have there. I agree that what they did wasn’t something that they made clear they were going to do initially but I disagree that it was entirely out of line with where the game was going from the beginning. There was a part of the community that wanted a new tier/something new to work towards and they addressed that need. I also believe that they are listening to concerns of a different part of the community with concerns of power creep which is why they made public statements about not adding tiers beyond ascended in the near future.

If adding ascended in and of itself is a deal breaker, so be it. Make your concerns known, and they may incorporate them into future content. Compromises are made in design. The community is bigger than you and I. There will be parts we all really enjoy and some we really don’t like. Ascended for me doesn’t bother me because their statements and actions haven’t lead me to believe they intend to go Wow style power creep….yet.

If I recall correctly it was mentioned that “there will be no more tiers after ascended in 2013” in the recent overview of the next 6 months for arenanet.

The first Guild Wars allowed you to find an Ancient Seer, who battled against the Mursaat and found a way to tackle their SPECTRAL AGONY but lost the war anyways, so you could do a task for them so they could infuse your armor with spectral agony resistance.

This didn’t make your armor stronger, nor changed it’s name. It simply added a little word in the description saying it was infused, so you could wear it around Mursaat and decrease the devastating damage their Spectral Agony caused to you. Trust me, you need resistance against Spectral Agony, especially in that big fight in Lion’s Arch when it’s being invaded by Mursaat and the White Mantle in War in Kryta.

That’s. It.

First, allow me to show you this link to one of ArenaNet’s blogs with Lindsey Murdock introducing Ascended gear: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

Read it and you will find this: “Adding item progression is a delicate process normally undertaken in an expansion, but we feel it’s important to strive to satisfy the basic needs of our players sooner rather than later.”

They added pink-named items with better stats than exotics because ArenaNet’s new playerbase demanded something harder and stronger, they caved in and that made GW1 players angry. I mean, infused armor in GW1 didn’t have better stats, why should ascended gear? Ontop of this, people with Legendary weapons will receive a free upgrade so their shiny bubble guns, My Little Pony bows, and chrone hammers can remain the best-in-slot weaponry available in the game. How nice of them.

Back in October 2006, ArenaNet introduced inscriptions with the Nightfall campaign for Guild Wars. Inscriptions are like sigils and runes, they did not increase the damage of a weapon past Gold and Green rarity and it worked fine. Adding an inscription to your sword didn’t turn it’s name orange and increased it’s damage output from 15-22 to 22-31 while at the same time having the extra damage from a “Strength and Honor” inscription to sweeten the deal.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Inscription

So there’s your answer. Ascended weapons, jewelry, and armor NEED better stats because ArenaNet’s new playerbase demands it, and they shall receive. One has to wonder though, once everyone is pimped out in full Ascended weaponry and armor, what’s next? It hasn’t been a year and ArenaNet has already caved in. Maybe cyan-colored gear called “Champion” that provides immunity inside UW, FoW, Kormir’s Redeemed Realm? “Desolation” gear to walk on the sulfuric sands of the Desolation? lol

I still don’t get the complaints, do people really expect to waste time and money to get the exotic and then, after 1 year playing, still be with the same gear?

Of course the game needs some kind of progression, such as raising lvl cap, adding new stuff, new gears, new set designs. I agree that Ascended gear came too soon and it should be even harder to get, but this such things are necessary, would you play i.e. GTA for a year straight knowing that you actually didn’t make any progress? I guess not.

aluisiora.4568:

I still don’t get the complaints, do people really expect to waste time and money to get the exotic and then, after 1 year playing, still be with the same gear?

Of course the game needs some kind of progression, such as raising lvl cap, adding new stuff, new gears, new set designs. I agree that Ascended gear came too soon and it should be even harder to get, but this such things are necessary, would you play i.e. GTA for a year straight knowing that you actually didn’t make any progress? I guess not.

I hate Blizzard and WoW soo much. They conditioned most of the MMO community into thinking they need these things when in fact they provide nothing. And i hate the fact that ANET gave into this pathetic mindset of a hamster wheel.

We played GW1 for 7 years. There was no stat progression.

Fractals have provided for atleast me something to do. I hit 80 with my new main, explored everything , I dont care for WvW to much , I do enjoy spvp but much more is needed in terms of maps and game types (especially something to show outside of it), after that which didnt take to much time you run out of things to do. Sure there are dungeons but they dont give a sense of progression as they are not treated as end game.

FOTM is the only thing currently I would consider end game. What anet needs to do now is expand ascended gear in terms of power across the world. Orr needs a revamp or just a new 80 zone that is one super long chain of events leading to an absurd climatic event which provides ascended gear at the end ans gives some sort of world bonus much like wvw does.

Once its expanded we can get different gear In future dungeons of the same stats with a new resistance for a few new dungeons and then create a dungeon that uses a mix of those resistances ( the new ones and agony) or by merging all the different resistances gear into a new resistance. This keeps both vertical and horizontal progression which I personally want both.

aluisiora.4568:

I still don’t get the complaints, do people really expect to waste time and money to get the exotic and then, after 1 year playing, still be with the same gear?

Of course the game needs some kind of progression, such as raising lvl cap, adding new stuff, new gears, new set designs. I agree that Ascended gear came too soon and it should be even harder to get, but this such things are necessary, would you play i.e. GTA for a year straight knowing that you actually didn’t make any progress? I guess not.

They do not need to raise the level cap. Why, so players have more trait points to play with?

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Attribute_points

ArenaNet placed quests you could do for extra attribute points without raising the level cap past 20. It can be done in the second game easily. Face it, leveling up past 80 is only for extra skill points. They could easily add personal story missions/quests in future expansions that give you trait points to spend.

Also, adding new types of enemies, conditions, etc could have been resolved by adding a slot to exotic/legendary weapons for infusions, they only boosted up the stats to please people who are so badly damaged by gear treadmills that they now need it in every MMORPG they play to even have fun, quite sad really.

Seriously, read: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

They wanted Ascended gear to provide resistance against “Agony” but the new community from other MMORPG’s obviously needed bigger carrots to flock to, they only added the extra stats on Ascended gear for that extra icing on the cake, which turned stale and sour quite quickly.

“By adding challenging new combat mechanics to end-game content and ways to mitigate those mechanics through gear progression for high-end players, we can add personal progression without making the game feel like an endless treadmill of gear that is just out of your reach.”

They wanted to bring back something similar to Spectral Agony and armor that could handle it. Increased stats is only there to provide players with more farming and grinding to get the best gear in what.. under two months? What will you do then, complain about gear progression AGAIN until they add stronger gear than Ascended?

SonicTHI.3217:

aluisiora.4568:

I still don’t get the complaints, do people really expect to waste time and money to get the exotic and then, after 1 year playing, still be with the same gear?

Of course the game needs some kind of progression, such as raising lvl cap, adding new stuff, new gears, new set designs. I agree that Ascended gear came too soon and it should be even harder to get, but this such things are necessary, would you play i.e. GTA for a year straight knowing that you actually didn’t make any progress? I guess not.

I hate Blizzard and WoW soo much. They conditioned most of the MMO community into thinking they need these things when in fact they provide nothing. And i hate the fact that ANET gave into this pathetic mindset of a hamster wheel.

We played GW1 for 7 years. There was no stat progression.

I’ve never played WoW (Not to lie, played till lvl 10), a Gw1 is Gw1, Gw2 is Gw2, it’s in another era of mmo’s, it’s not a Gw1 remake, most people play games because the feeling of progression, but the trick is how they implement it.

aluisiora.4568:

SonicTHI.3217:

aluisiora.4568:

I still don’t get the complaints, do people really expect to waste time and money to get the exotic and then, after 1 year playing, still be with the same gear?

Of course the game needs some kind of progression, such as raising lvl cap, adding new stuff, new gears, new set designs. I agree that Ascended gear came too soon and it should be even harder to get, but this such things are necessary, would you play i.e. GTA for a year straight knowing that you actually didn’t make any progress? I guess not.

I hate Blizzard and WoW soo much. They conditioned most of the MMO community into thinking they need these things when in fact they provide nothing. And i hate the fact that ANET gave into this pathetic mindset of a hamster wheel.

We played GW1 for 7 years. There was no stat progression.

I’ve never played WoW (Not to lie, played till lvl 10), a Gw1 is Gw1, Gw2 is Gw2, it’s in another era of mmo’s, it’s not a Gw1 remake, most people play games because the feeling of progression, but the trick is how they implement it.

None of us GW1 fans saw the November release of Ascended gear when we pre-purchased the game on April/March. We just foolishly assumed ArenaNet would keep it’s credibility and their manifesto true when we paid for the game months before it was released, followed it’s development for years, and continue to support the first game even before they spilled the beans on Guild Wars 2 back in 2007 after they released the Eye of the North expansion. How foolish, sorry about that. ;P We even went to their conventions to cheer them on as they worked on GW2 and faced NDA’s while testing the game for only 2-3 days a month to see if it really lived up to the hype.

But it is true, they could have avoided the immense firestorm of disapproval if they only stayed true to their word. They only wanted to bring back Spectral Agony, without the Mursaat ofcourse, so they just called it “Agony.” Ascended gear could have been just pink-named gear with an infusion slot.. but that would make them weaker than Exotics because of the lack of a Sigil slot for weapons and Rune slot for armor. Next best idea? Make Ascended gear better than exotics to please those new customers from other MMORPG’s that just plunged their greasy claws around GW2 and complained on the forums about there being no whacky-happy-fun-time hamster gear wheel that will be replaced every 2-3 months for “BIG HUGE NUMBURS XD.”

It’s all about that gear progression huh? Answer my question though. If this feeling of GEAR progression is so important to MMORPG’s and CORPG’s everywhere, what will you and the many carrot-lovers do once you’re blinged up on full ascended gear? Like, if they released ascended armor to Fractals in the March update, and you were covered head to toe in Ascended gear, what will you do? Ask them to make a new tier of gear to please your obsession? Honest question. Also, did coloring the letters of Ascended gear pink please your gear treadmill and progression disorder? What if Legendary and Exotic gear had infusion slots and the Ascended gear idea was scrapped before November, would your disorder still trouble you?

Theplayboy.6417:

This is spot on. My question is why would anyone ever want to spend their hard earned resources, such as 250 Globs of Ecto, on a Unique Exotic when it will soon be obsolete. I would be happy with the Whisperblade and Lyss but I’m not dumb enough to buy or craft them because they will soon be equal to current build Green weapons.

Because they won’t be obsolete. People don’t go after those 250 ecto unique items because of their stats, which aren’t any better than a 3-4 gold exotic weapon, but for their skins, which can still be transmuted onto a new ascended weapon.

With that said, I agree that the introduction of vertical progression after 80 was a really, really terrible idea. Trying to appease the gear treadmillers is pointless and has really damaged other MMOs, because no matter how fast you can put out content, the hardcore players will always complete it far faster. So they’re basically at the same place they would be if you hadn’t introduced the new gear level anyway – maxed out in their items and moaning for new content. The biggest difference is that the people who aren’t interested in chasing the carrot on a stick (the vast majority of the player base) are fractured off from those players (due to the gear disparity) and are ignored when it comes to new content (since adding in new gear levels, dungeons, etc takes a tremendous amount of development resources and time).

Ascended Gear was an intended part of the game to begin with, ANet just didn’t manage to finish it until November; they had intended to implement other ways to obtain Ascended gear besides Fractals, but it got stalled and regrettably was not able to make it into the Lost Shores patch.

This was specifically pointed out by ANet staff. There are loads of features like Ascended Gear, that ANet wanted in the game – But in case you hadn’t noticed, they were really crunched into launching. Loads of stuff had to be withheld or be released half-baked…

So, please quit your squabbling about why Ascended do or do not need more stats, you’re the ones who haven’t properly looked into what’s going on and are going purely off of hear-say.

Tardiness of release aside, Ascended Gear are EXACTLY as ANet intended.
Legendaries were probably suppose to have infusions as well, but didn’t need them to be launched.

Halandir.3609:

SpyderArachnid.5619:

It basically boils down to this.

People from the traditional mindset of other MMOs complained enough that GW2 wasn’t like other MMOs, so Anet caved in to them and gave them what other MMOs already offer them instead of staying true to themselves.

So basically Anet gave a vocal minority a gear treadmill and will continue to add more tiers in the future to appease those who don’t like GW2 for what it was.

No need to blame those people.
The only ones to blame here are Anet: Ascended gear and FotM was planned/designed before launch but I am guessing that Anet just kept quiet about it because they knew a lot of their old fans would stay away if we had known the facts about ascended gear.

At least they were decent enough to introduce it early on – Saves me money that I can spend on other games. With the introduction of ascended gear and the promise of future extra levels and more gear progression I am no longer spending anything on Anet products.
I am just one customer and many seem to really enjoy FotM and gear progression. In the end Anet’s decision may have been the best from a business perspective.

I am not complaining. I got my moneys worth – I just refrain from funding the future of statprogression in GW2 because to me it is/was totally unnecessary.

No really….
There are signs everywhere that ascended gear doesn t blend in the game correctly….
They may have said that as they said there wouldn t be any grind or vertical progression….

See how pets have problems with agony for example (and with new tiers also).
See how legendary have issues with trasmutation

Not to mention infusing items in MF.

and many other things…

Its more evident that ascended gear wasn t planned during the game development otherwise it wouldn t give so many problems.

LordByron.8369:

Halandir.3609:

SpyderArachnid.5619:

It basically boils down to this.

People from the traditional mindset of other MMOs complained enough that GW2 wasn’t like other MMOs, so Anet caved in to them and gave them what other MMOs already offer them instead of staying true to themselves.

So basically Anet gave a vocal minority a gear treadmill and will continue to add more tiers in the future to appease those who don’t like GW2 for what it was.

No need to blame those people.
The only ones to blame here are Anet: Ascended gear and FotM was planned/designed before launch but I am guessing that Anet just kept quiet about it because they knew a lot of their old fans would stay away if we had known the facts about ascended gear.

At least they were decent enough to introduce it early on – Saves me money that I can spend on other games. With the introduction of ascended gear and the promise of future extra levels and more gear progression I am no longer spending anything on Anet products.
I am just one customer and many seem to really enjoy FotM and gear progression. In the end Anet’s decision may have been the best from a business perspective.

I am not complaining. I got my moneys worth – I just refrain from funding the future of statprogression in GW2 because to me it is/was totally unnecessary.

No really….
There are signs everywhere that ascended gear doesn t blend in the game correctly….
They may have said that as they said there wouldn t be any grind or vertical progression….

See how pets have problems with agony for example (and with new tiers also).
See how legendary have issues with trasmutation

Not to mention infusing items in MF.

and many other things…

Its more evident that ascended gear wasn t planned during the game development otherwise it wouldn t give so many problems.

So its your word vs there i am sry but i am more like to take there’s over yours because they have something invested years of work what do you have?

This has been talked to death over and over and there has never been an constitution eather way. You like them or you dislike them because the simple truth is that these items are NOT going away and no amount of argument will stop the other parts of it coming out. To just simply start “crying” when new ones are coming out is childish and pointless.

SonicTHI.3217:

We played GW1 for 7 years. There was no stat progression.

Just because you gw1 people like it that way doesnt mean everyone does. No progression is boring, plain and simple.

Its not brainwashing either, its point of view. Having no change in scaled character power or ability will get old fast. Its why a lot have already quit. Its just too limited currently.

I laugh with todays generalizations; wow clone! or omg grind!

There’s a good reason many mmo’s stick to the mould. Its because its what makes them kitten mmo’s and it works. Without the features of past mmo’s games stagnate and off people go to a new realm of shiny – from a different developer the following year. Seen it happen with alot of games and if this keeps up gw2 will be no different.

If you are going to take away huge sums of content usually found in mmo’s you need to replace that said content with something else/better. If not, 5 minutes down the life span you will have yourself a SWTOR. Im sure I dont need to explain how that went.

There has to be better stats because a vocal minority kept whining to turn this game into that other game. Arena.net made a fatal mistake and is now on damage control.

I do like the way it’s implemented, with only a few pieces every few months. But still … it shouldn’t have been like it is right now. If they just had one piece of ascended at release, it would have been a big difference.

And yes, a 3% increase in stats really is a big deal in a game that’s supposed to have an even footing.

How can 3% be that much ? In spvp they dont scale. In Pve, who cares anyway ? Its Pve… And WvW is open world, you wont be 1vs1 unless you are dumb. So really, whats that 3% higher? No more drama please, i agree that anet has sold out and thier model of the game just made us all wrong but you guys are making too much drama.

Knox.3748:

How can 3% be that much ? In spvp they dont scale. In Pve, who cares anyway ? Its Pve… And WvW is open world, you wont be 1vs1 unless you are dumb. So really, whats that 3% higher? No more drama please, i agree that anet has sold out and thier model of the game just made us all wrong but you guys are making too much drama.

Because given equal skill, the guild group with the best gear wins, even if it’s only 3% increase. A 30 man zerg of Guild A will win against a 40 man zerg of Guild B because of this. That’s not an acceptable scenario if this gear is gated in a completely unrelated dungeon.

3% is quite a lot.

I will tell you, and I will tell you the truth:

Becasue some people dont care about fun and dont care about game- They just want to feel better than most players, feel unique and elite, feel they are stronger and more “shiny” than this noob standing there. Feel they are special and respected and “worse” players looking at them with jealousy. Becasue they suck in Real Life, they are noone special and their ego is weak, so they making themself better in MMO.

And talking about that “It is fun to sit another couple of weeks, doing the same, to get better gear with +5% better stats”- it is 99% kitten. Real players who just enoy playing can play Single Player game for months, becasue it is fun. GW1 people were playing YEARS for fun, not for showing off (there was ONE obsidian armor to show off, ONE, and not so shiny)

It is just it, man, really. MMO hits spot of weak man, who need to feel better than others. And gear progression/shinies/mounts and other things give them that. Thats why u had after 5 years great player base in GW1. Those were players mostly, not kids who feel “low” in RL.

You have big map, events etc, great views, interesting places and monsters, lore, hearts. Why do u think most 80s ppl grind whole day the same 2 dungoens to get new shiny? For fun? They farm gold doing same thing ove rand over again? For fun?

:D

No they wont. Because WvW is more than zerging around. 3% will add you 40 atack. Really, are u seriously crying aboutg 3%? So many things to ask for improvement and you cry about this.

GG

Jski.6180:

So its your word vs there i am sry but i am more like to take there’s over yours because they have something invested years of work what do you have?

i think after 15 november their word Worth exactly if not less than mine as a random forum poster……

Being this related makes this reason somehow relevant also

also i gave you some clues that suggest what i say may be true.
On the other side, they just said “ascended were planned before launch” only after 15 november when they needed something to try to cover what they said in manifesto…

They should ve told that BEFORE releasing the game….then it would ve been acceptable….

In this case i just see a marketing blog to cover an unpopular move and broken promises.

Also did they even gave us a clue on the fact they planned ascended before launch?

Voltron.1043:

You have big map, events etc, great views, interesting places and monsters, lore, hearts. Why do u think most 80s ppl grind whole day the same 2 dungoens to get new shiny? For fun? They farm gold doing same thing ove rand over again? For fun?

:D

Ouch, truth hurts. To be fair, ascended items will indeed be available from a variety of places in the next update. If it turns out that everyone will easily get their set of ascended equipment, then it will just seem like a redundant and pointless addition. If they still require a long term time investment then what you said applies. If Anet wants to try and appease both groups, I think they should change WvW to the sPvP item/level system (with free transmutes for pve armor). That way, tradtional MMO players get their perceived progression and players tired of the old MMO tricks probably won’t complain too much.

DreamOfACure.4382:

Ascended Gear was an intended part of the game to begin with, ANet just didn’t manage to finish it until November; they had intended to implement other ways to obtain Ascended gear besides Fractals, but it got stalled and regrettably was not able to make it into the Lost Shores patch.

And if you can believe that, then i may offer you a Brooklyn Bridge for a really advantageous price.

Sorry, there’s absolutely nothing that supports that dev statement, and lot of things that strongly suggest that ascended items were a very late and rushed addition.

Conncept.7638:

Deroy.2457:

Conncept.7638:

It really doesn’t, but then again why not? Really, so long as they make it just as available as exotics (which they are in the process of doing) it doesn’t affect the game either way.

If it’s going to be as available as exotics then there’s absolutely no point in having any level 80 exotics in the game. Exotics will be redundant.

But if that’s true, then under the old systems, rares were redundant. And if level 80 rares were made the highest tier, level 80 masterwork would be redundant.

Rares indeed were redundant. I used them only in the rare(lol) case where i got a drop that fit my build during levelling. Then i got straight to exotics.

Masterworks on the other hand are useful as a common levelling gear – you get those from drops and cheaply from heart karma vendors, and since you keep upgrading your armor constantly during levelling, there’s no point in investing in anything better.

Introduction of ascended didn’t change anything about masterworks, but made rares even more useless – they are now nothing more than ecto source. And made exotics about as useful as rares once were.
Well, not yet – we don’t have full set of ascended eq after all – but for example there’s absolutely no point in getting exotic berserker rings now.

Knox.3748:

No they wont. Because WvW is more than zerging around. 3% will add you 40 atack. Really, are u seriously crying aboutg 3%? So many things to ask for improvement and you cry about this.

GG

Because all other topics aren’t as critical to the game philosophy as this one. The unique selling point for GW2 was exactly this, no increase in gear cap. The vast majority of players joined because of that one imperative. Because of that, this is the most important issue, the cornerstone of the game.

This isn’t called crying. It’s called caring for the game we supported for 5 years, the game we bought without even knowing the release date. If there’s a vocal minority … heck it just means the majority has to be even more vocal about it. Especially for such a crucial issue as this “mere 3%” which is most certainly a big deal.

LinkR.6190:

Levetty.1279:

Because ADD people think the only new content that are worth playing in MMOs is obscene grinds for +1 gear so you can fight the new plus +1 monsters.

Somehow to them that +1 makes it new and interesting.

There is nothing wrong with Anet wanting to provide something for everyone. Give people a carrot if they really want it. The problem with GW2 at launch (and this is just a theory of mine) is that they wanted to ween players off the treadmill in order to provide a more unique experience. The only problem is that their method of “weening” was going cold turkey. It was a shock to the system for a lot of MMO veterans and honestly I can’t blame them. You can’t expect a rat in a lab to respond positively to new circumstances without any kind of indoctrination. Thankfully, I think people are for the most part getting over their old convictions. At least, the ones that were willing to put up with it a little longer instead of just jumping back to WoW’s more “fulfilling” gameplay. (not bashing WoW, I just feel it kind of manipulates you into playing for the sake of playing and not because you are having fun)

You are correct most of them have weened off by leaving 3/4s of the population has left the game.Ascend gear was a lazy short mechanic that backfired in their face and they paid for it. Players also did cause the server worlds died.
Had Anet stuck to their promises and decidided to what was best for the game it would have been Superior and a very health game right now. What we have now is a game without direction and an economy ruled by a few. PvP/WvW/PvE all dead except between 6-11pm at night this is an mmo and should be going 24-7.

Knox.3748:

How can 3% be that much ? In spvp they dont scale. In Pve, who cares anyway ? Its Pve… And WvW is open world, you wont be 1vs1 unless you are dumb. So really, whats that 3% higher? No more drama please, i agree that anet has sold out and thier model of the game just made us all wrong but you guys are making too much drama.

But it’s not 3%.

The devs have directly stated that the intent is to make these items 5-10% stronger than their Exotic counterparts.

Assuming all future Ascended gear comes out at the 10% figure they quoted, that means a full set of Ascended Berserker armor, weapons, and trinkets deals 23% more damage than Exotic Berserker loadouts in the long run.

The claim that Ascended gear won’t affect the game that much is a fantasy created by people who don’t want to do the math for themselves. There is a lot of “drama” because some of us have done the math that ANet apparently has not, and concluded that the “slight” progression they promised isn’t all that slight and isn’t beneficial to the game as a whole, even if they add Ascended gear to more places. It was a mistake to introduce it at all.

Czar Peter.7961:

Wiser with Age.3714:

The vocal masses wanted instanced dungeon grinding for better gear.

How depressing. If ArenaNet is going to appease these players with a gear treadmill, they should’ve kept it out of WvW. Even making ascended items available in WvW sucks; it means you have to play for hundreds of hours just to get optimal gear for a new build.

-well considering there gear progression is ment to come at much slower pace than that of a game like wow and that I enjoy this game I don’t really have a problem with this New cosmetic gear or new state based gear im going to spend my time getting it and looking for things to do and ways to progress my character ((wether it be cosmetic or not)) so the only people who should really havea problem with this are the one’s that just dont enjoy the content.

If you can enjoy the content there giveing you Who care’s

Because it was difficult to balance their servers to handle too many players in too many areas at the same time. With FOTM and the ascended carrot, they’re now all in LA. More predictable, easier to balance, just allocate more resources to LA overflows, there’s no one anywhere else.

In a way, it made GW2 more like GW1 than ever: thousands of players in dozens of instances of the town hub spamming the map chat, and once you leave town, you only meet NPCs.

GW2 has been a completely different design and it’s sometimes hard to see why things are so different from GW1.

What GW1 offered worked well for me. As the world was instanced outside towns, there was no boss camping, griefing and such. These were significant advantages at the time. For endgame there were raids, but they were perhaps organised differently, especially compared to WoW. In GW1 they were 8-12 people in size. Areas like UW and Urgoz basically. These were already smaller numbers than raiding in other games.

GW2 doesn’t have raids really. The maximum group size is 5 for dungeons but there is an underlying reason why bigger groups would not make sense. The reason is the lack of trinity and the lack of mechanics in GW2 encounters which is also part of the design. Why do I say that? Because when you have bigger groups, GW2 can only offer zerg content per design. Dragon fights and DE’s are what this game can offer.

If you were to stick 8-12 people in a dungeon in GW2 then it will just be a mob rush. There are no tasks to hand out because there are no roles or mechanics in place. Just think of doing TA for example and how many red circles there are on the floor and sticking 12 people in there. It just wouldn’t work.

Now, don’t get me wrong. I am not saying that GW2 should have raiding, but as with other things, there isn’t enough to replace it. The vertical progression with gear is extremely shallow and therefore unrewarding. I suppose FotM is sort of a Tetris for MMOs where you just look to see how many levels you can complete and as far as horizontal progression, something that GW did a lot for, GW2 simply doesn’t deliver. Aside from the lack of cool skins, the acquisition of them is generally not well thought trough.

All games have their flaws but I do feel that GW2 doesn’t reward the player correctly. The top gear is just a couple of trinkets (ascended) and exotic grade gear and even legendaries are freely available….on the GTN.

Exotic gear should’ve been exclusive to dungeon and karma rewards and very rare drops that are bound or account bound. Craftable gear is too easy to make apparently cause there’s plenty of it on the GTN. At least there used to be when I last played.

This all takes the excitement out of collecting stuff. Whether it’s for skins or stats. It’s just not exciting to me.

I think that the problem with treadmills starts when you need to gear up too quickly as compared to the time it might take an average player to get it. This can be controlled in different ways.

People demanded for gear with better stats, simply because they finished the game and were bored inside a month’s play and there really wasn’t anything else to do. Exotic gear was too easy to get, making rare gear basically pointless and there were no cool skins to collect or other ways to really expand your characters.

The replay value of the leveling zones is low for various reasons and after level 30-40 your character doesn’t really progress anymore aside from a higher level number. There are no new skills, gear types etc to unlock and there are too many zones to level through with pretty much the same activities. In essence, the idea of endgame being the whole world was an interesting idea but it didn’t work out that way.

At the moment ascended gear isn’t much of an advantage because it’s just a couple of trinkets and that means the vertical progression fails at this moment and the horizontal progression leaves much to be desired.

To each their own of course but aside from FotM and WvW, there is a huge PvE world and it doesn’t seem like it needed to be that big if people aren’t using it much. Perhaps more high level dungeons and WvW features would’ve worked much better and a level cap of 50 with a lot fewer leveling zones to start with. But GW2 in the way it’s made, really just doesn’t have what it takes to feature more tactical group content for more than 5 players. It’s either a small group or zergfest. It’s a design, you decide if it was a good design or not. For me it didn’t work, but I am just one person.

cuz i would love to have that armor type for the statcs not for the agony cuz i dont play pve i need it for pvp i always chase best statcs thac all