Guild Wars 2

Mackdose.6504:

I’m taking a “wait and see” approach.

My guess is that ascended will be the final tier for a while, infusion rarities will be the vertical side of progression, the level cap increase will bring nothing but cosmetic rewards above 80, with stat scaling coming from the increase to base stats by level rather than gear.

…What a wonderful expansion that would be…

as amusing as that would be to see, level increases usually function as gear resets so players aren’t too fragmented in terms of being unable to play together due to gear gating.

thus we can presumably expect to work for our fine > masterwork > rare > exotic > ascended lvl 90 gear or whatever the new cap is unless you put in the work for a free upgrade to your legendary

Can you craft the best tier using something similar to the mystic forge in WoW? No? Then don’t expect to see it here. Is there only a minute difference between the top tier of gear and the second top? No? Then don’t expect to see it here.

in wow you could create bis through crafting, no idea if this still works in the current expansion but in previous expansions there were sell-able recipes that dropped in dungeons/ raids etc, and in some cases you just got to craft them when you maxed your profession. then when they introduced a new tier they introduced new recipies.

also this game is not wow, why would i play a game that copies wow poorly when i could just play the original? which is also adding more horizontal progression, like pet battles etc

Anet has made it extremely obvious what their design goals are

i don’t think they have given the amount of different assumptions people seem to be operating under, if it were extremely obvious everyone would be on the same page and wouldn’t be speculating about what they are going to do.

Mackdose.6504:

azizul.8469:

there should be an option of getting an ascended gear by mystique forging an exotic gear together with few other items, possibly earned by completing the main storyline…

remember in GW1, you get your gear infused by taking a normal gear to an NPC after completing a quest…. that’s all….

You can do this with the triforge amulet.

yeah… but the triforge is like 100gold ?

Shadow Blade.1324:

in wow you could create bis through crafting, no idea if this still works in the current expansion but in previous expansions there were sell-able recipes that dropped in dungeons/ raids etc, and in some cases you just got to craft them when you maxed your profession. then when they introduced a new tier they introduced new recipies.

also this game is not wow, why would i play a game that copies wow poorly when i could just play the original?

BiS crafting recipes haven’t existed since Burning Crusade, and even then they dropped in the hardest dungeons and were for the most part side grades and not upgrades to current equipment. As for being able to craft BiS equipment by maxing your profession, nope wrong again. Doesn’t sound like you should be giving opinions based on WoW examples if you don’t know anything about the game.

Also, great insight pointing out that this is not WoW. Amazing observation. WoW being the king of MMOs set the precedent for nearly every MMO that has come after. They are the example that other developers follow for many things, including gameplay, interface, and player desires. The point seems lost on you as to why a new MMO would follow the example of the industry leader, and this is not only evident in gaming but all aspects of business an marketing, so I’m not going to spend time trying to educate you. But should you wish to discredit your own opinions less and start making actual contributions to discussion in the future, consider your handle on the facts before you start lecturing. It will be a lot less embarrassing in the long run.

Tolmos.8395:

Guild Wars 1: Stat plateau, BiS gear ASAP with grinding for looks only, expansions don’t add gear or levels so your character remains viable for all content in the game, guild battles

WoW: Stat progression, BiS gear takes unbelievable amount of grind, expansions add levels and start your gear grind from scratch so if you are away for a year you are no longer viable, no guild battles but rather small 5-10 man battlegrounds and a single zone for "open world’ PvP.

Which of those two sounds more like GW2? Once you figure that out, you’ll have a good idea of where to look for the future of this game.

Sorry. But no grind for BiS gear in GW1? Try setting up all your characters and heroes with Sup runes and insignia, top-tier metagame pre/suffixes for weapons. There was a definite grind for BiS.

Heretic.4915:

Also, great insight pointing out that this is not WoW. Amazing observation. WoW being the king of MMOs set the precedent for nearly every MMO that has come after. They are the example that other developers follow for many things, including gameplay, interface, and player desires. The point seems lost on you as to why a new MMO would follow the example of the industry leader, and this is not only evident in gaming but all aspects of business an marketing, so I’m not going to spend time trying to educate you. But should you wish to discredit your own opinions less and start making actual contributions to discussion in the future, consider your handle on the facts before you start lecturing. It will be a lot less embarrassing in the long run.

WoW is the king of MMOs for several reasons, all of which have been adequately determined:

- It offered a fairly tame set of system requirements. Furthermore, it was an MMO for those who owned Macs to play. These things lead to the game being more accessible and thus more people can play it if they choose.

- It came at an opportune time. EverQuest was winding down and there really wasn’t a good successor coming into the market.

- It took everything the previous “big fish” (EverQuest) did and tweaked it. EverQuest had a lot of things implemented in it, but they just weren’t as well-executed as WoW did later.

- Currently, there are so many people playing it (for whatever reason) that people who play other games eventually go back because “all my friends are there”. This is perhaps one of the most powerful reasons it has stayed the king.

The problem is a lot of failed MMOs have been started primarily to compete with WoW without actually offering enough to draw the masses away. GW1 succeeded because it was never intended to “kill World of Warcraft”, it was its own game and its own style.

(Sarcasm on.)

Of course, Guild Wars 2 is a blatant clone of World of Warcraft, all the way down to the orcs . . . I mean charr . . . and the night elves . . . I mean, sylvari. Heck we even have Illidan, I mean Trehearne. And we even have a limitless amount of raid content available for you to seek out the most prestigious gear which drops 0.04% of the time.

(Sarcasm off)

Now, as to the question presented in the title – Ascended armor isn’t in the game yet. Right now we have Accessories (back), Rings, and Amulets. They’re stronger due to the scaling-up of the Fractals by the time Agony shows up (which is the primary reason to be wearing Ascended gear even before stats)., so it’s meant to be what you use to do your Fractal work.

. . . and show of hands, if Ascended Gear only had the statistic boost while in Fractals and everywhere else it had Exotic stats, who’d still be complaining?

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

. . . and show of hands, if Ascended Gear only had the statistic boost while in Fractals and everywhere else it had Exotic stats, who’d still be complaining?

No one, I hope … but, this is the internet… >.>

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Heretic.4915:

Also, great insight pointing out that this is not WoW. Amazing observation. WoW being the king of MMOs set the precedent for nearly every MMO that has come after. They are the example that other developers follow for many things, including gameplay, interface, and player desires. The point seems lost on you as to why a new MMO would follow the example of the industry leader, and this is not only evident in gaming but all aspects of business an marketing, so I’m not going to spend time trying to educate you. But should you wish to discredit your own opinions less and start making actual contributions to discussion in the future, consider your handle on the facts before you start lecturing. It will be a lot less embarrassing in the long run.

WoW is the king of MMOs for several reasons, all of which have been adequately determined:

- It offered a fairly tame set of system requirements. Furthermore, it was an MMO for those who owned Macs to play. These things lead to the game being more accessible and thus more people can play it if they choose.

- It came at an opportune time. EverQuest was winding down and there really wasn’t a good successor coming into the market.

- It took everything the previous “big fish” (EverQuest) did and tweaked it. EverQuest had a lot of things implemented in it, but they just weren’t as well-executed as WoW did later.

- Currently, there are so many people playing it (for whatever reason) that people who play other games eventually go back because “all my friends are there”. This is perhaps one of the most powerful reasons it has stayed the king.

The problem is a lot of failed MMOs have been started primarily to compete with WoW without actually offering enough to draw the masses away. GW1 succeeded because it was never intended to “kill World of Warcraft”, it was its own game and its own style.

(Sarcasm on.)

Of course, Guild Wars 2 is a blatant clone of World of Warcraft, all the way down to the orcs . . . I mean charr . . . and the night elves . . . I mean, sylvari. Heck we even have Illidan, I mean Trehearne. And we even have a limitless amount of raid content available for you to seek out the most prestigious gear which drops 0.04% of the time.

(Sarcasm off)

Now, as to the question presented in the title – Ascended armor isn’t in the game yet. Right now we have Accessories (back), Rings, and Amulets. They’re stronger due to the scaling-up of the Fractals by the time Agony shows up (which is the primary reason to be wearing Ascended gear even before stats)., so it’s meant to be what you use to do your Fractal work.

. . . and show of hands, if Ascended Gear only had the statistic boost while in Fractals and everywhere else it had Exotic stats, who’d still be complaining?

All of what you said about WoW is common knowledge. That was my point.

Interesting idea about Fractal gear only working in Fractals though. I’ve seen it done in other games and it never worked, but it all comes down to implementation I guess.

Personally, I have no problem with how it is now, and I think majority of posters in this thread are just the usual MMO garbage that show up in every new game, complain for months, and move on to the next big thing as soon as it comes out so they can complain about that, all while boasting about how they’ve played since beta as if that meant a thing anymore.

Luckily ANet seems to see them for what they are as well (they’re not exactly new to this) and tunes them out accordingly.

Atrophied.8725:

Sorry. But no grind for BiS gear in GW1? Try setting up all your characters and heroes with Sup runes and insignia, top-tier metagame pre/suffixes for weapons. There was a definite grind for BiS.

Setting up characters with this stuff was easy. Setting up heroes with superior runes was… not a good idea, since they weren’t as good at using them to the fullest, but really needed those hp’s. Major runes were really cheap and far better for them, and insignias… i could easily equip them in full radiants or survivors from just drops.
I certainly could gear up one char fully in GW1 way faster than i’d get one ascended amulet in GW2. And with less grind.

Heretic.4915:

Personally, I have no problem with how it is now, and I think majority of posters in this thread are just the usual MMO garbage that show up in every new game, complain for months, and move on to the next big thing as soon as it comes out so they can complain about that, all while boasting about how they’ve played since beta as if that meant a thing anymore.

Luckily ANet seems to see them for what they are as well (they’re not exactly new to this) and tunes them out accordingly.

Actually, the majority of posters in this thread are GW1 veterans, who for some strange reason expected ANet to make a game that used one of the most important core principles of GW1, the utter lack of the treadmill.
Somehow, tuning out the people who promoted your game for you, preordered early, helped in the betas, etc, doesn’t seem like a good idea.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Heretic.4915:

Personally, I have no problem with how it is now, and I think majority of posters in this thread are just the usual MMO garbage that show up in every new game, complain for months, and move on to the next big thing as soon as it comes out so they can complain about that, all while boasting about how they’ve played since beta as if that meant a thing anymore.

Luckily ANet seems to see them for what they are as well (they’re not exactly new to this) and tunes them out accordingly.

Actually, the majority of posters in this thread are GW1 veterans, who for some strange reason expected ANet to make a game that used one of the most important core principles of GW1, the utter lack of the treadmill.
Somehow, tuning out the people who promoted your game for you, preordered early, helped in the betas, etc, doesn’t seem like a good idea.

Ironically, I’m one of the GW1 veterans who day 1 pre-purchased, helped with the beta, and promoted the game to friends and family.

I didn’t do this because I was expecting GW1 design philosophy, I did this expecting a sub-free MMO that could compete with WoW quality-wise while getting rid of mandatory content gates from gear.

I’m not saying I want WoW’s features and design goals with no sub-fee. Just a high-quality MMO to occupy my time that doesn’t punish me for not playing.

Even with the ascended gear in right now, I don’t feel punished for not playing as much as a 16 year old me would have been able to. I’m tired of people trying to argue that I should feel threatened by a gear treadmill. I’m the exact player that a gear treadmill would penalize, I know when I’m going to get hit with a mandatory grind to stay relevant to the current content. I’ve been down that road before.

I honestly think that the combat and power curve are designed to directly mitigate the pitfalls of vertical progression and its evil cousin, content gating.

I have yet to see anyone present a solid argument to counter that thinking that isn’t “Other games have been doing this and it always turns out the same,” as if the writing is on the wall and designers can’t change the way vertical progression interacts with the rest of the game. As if they must follow WoW or EQ or whatever MMO in regards to the way the power curve interacts with future NPC and encounter scaling.

I refuse to accept WoW’s status quo as some “inevitable conclusion” of vertical progression. It doesn’t have to be that way, if I can mitigate vertical progression in a tabletop RPG, Anet can mitigate it in a video game.

This is why I have fundamental disagreements with folks like Critickitten and Raine.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

. . . and show of hands, if Ascended Gear only had the statistic boost while in Fractals and everywhere else it had Exotic stats, who’d still be complaining?

I’d still be complaining. My complaint is about the trend of vertical progression, not Ascended gear specifically.

Worth noting, though, that if Ascended gear is always equal to or better than Exotic gear, that makes it better than Exotic gear by default. If the absolute worst it can do is exactly the same as the best case scenario for Exotic gear, then it’s hard to argue that it’s not still superior.

Illustration: I have two pieces of gear, one that raises my Power by 80, and another by 80 everywhere except Fractals, where the boost becomes 90. Which one are you more likely to go after, assuming that you will, at some point in time, want to run Fractals? The only scenario in which the Exotic version “wins out” is if you literally never run Fractals, in which case the Exotic gear is more desirable due to less grinding needed to obtain it.

But that’s irrelevant, since my complaint really isn’t about Ascended specifically, but rather the trend it establishes.