Guild Wars 2

Thing they should do:

When downing a player in PvP, the player keeps all the conditions on him although he’s immune to damage for the first second (as usual.)

Structures can now take condition damage.

In group events such as Claw of Jormag, you can now apply infinite stacks of bleed, because of the amount of players present.

In Dungeons, everyone has their own condition “spot” on the target, meaning a bleedgineer can have 17 stacks up, while a bleed thief has 20 stacks up – separate stacks.

Although, I do like that the optimal group in some dungeons is 1 devoted conditioner, 1 devoted support and raw damage dealers.
Sad thing is, raw damage dealers often ruins everything for the devoted conditioner because their attacks may or may not have conditions attached to them.

I’m sure every rifle warrior would let his bleeds go if he knew that the bleedgineer did twice as much damage if he had that bleed spot.

Agrios.1957:

The bleeding cap, as well other caps are there for a reason: PvP balance.

I am sorry but this is wrong.

Imagine a condition damage character can maintain 15 stacks of bleeding, and assume that the DPS is similar to a character built for direct damage.

Put two of the direct damage characters in a PvP match. They both attack the same target, they both do their full damage, and the target dies twice as fast. Add a third direct damage character and the target dies in 1/3 the time.

Now put two of the condition damage characters in a PvP match. They both attack the same target, one does full damage and the other cannot stack all his bleeds and does less damage. The target does not die twice as fast. Add a third condition damage character attacking the same target and it becomes laughable.

This is true in the game right now.. in PvP, WvWvW, and PvE.

Ulari

Aristio.2784:

raptor.1064:

Ethics.4519:

It’s capped because Anet said the servers have to keep track and store every single duration on every mob in every zone. They have to keep track of the damage and duration of all of these.

People already complain about lag now, could you imagine how bad it would be in WvW or dragon events with necros putting 200+ bleed stacks on something.

badly coding your game is not a valid excuse

Who’s to determine the validity of an “excuse”? Just because you don’t like the answer, it’s automatically invalid. They gave their reasons, just deal with it. Besides, it’s always better to balance your character damage on Conditions and Direct damage.

“They gave their reasons, just deal with it.” – what a well thought out suggestion. :-/

Try playing a condition Necro and almost never getting chest with world boss’s because you can’t possibly do enough damage. It really suxs if Necro is your favorite class. Well, guess I’ll “just deal with it” until the next AAA mmo is released….

Brangien.7462:

Oglaf, yes.

Structures are immune to condition damage and hurt the condition builds the most.

Burrows, Ice pillars, breakable traps etc.

I don’t think you can Crit them either, IIRC. It’s down to Power and attack speed.

About the technical issues, I think it shoudn’t be such a great problem:

- Most mobs in every map there won’t get 25 bleeds, not even 12 most times even with bleeder players, so the 25 cap isn’t affecting them and all those bleeds are currently taking server capacity without problems. This part wouldn’t change at all with a change on the cap.

- The only ones that receive a lot of bleeds are group event bosses. They’re very few, it’s not like all the 13204909234 critters on each map are getting 25 bleeds, ony those group event champions and legendaries (and only those ones, the normal mobs usually explode without even being able to render in your screen so they’re not taking much “condition capacity” in the 1 or 2 seconds they stand alive).

And I think that rising the cap would help against those few super enmies for a simple reason: More damage received equals to less time running around receiving bleeds and taking server capacity.

I don’t know the details of how it affects their server, but knowing that only a few enemies will actually reach the cap, and that those ones usually involve a lot of loading and renderig from their events, helping to finish them faster through allowing all conditions to damage them would finish those capacity costing events earlier so one thing would compensate the other.

One of the devs mentioned some time ago it’s partially a technical issue, as every bit of condition information has to be processed by servers, and having conditions per monster capped at 25 helps with general strain on the servers. There are gazillions of conditions flying at the same time there already, and possibly kittens of conditions is what contributes to the ‘skill lag’ during big events and SM rushes.
Another issue is PvP balance. Do not say something like ‘put a conditionmancer and a direct damage dude together’, it’s not a 1v1 issue. Conditions, even with the current limit to AoE, would simply wipe zergs (especially that party condition removal is also capped at 5 targets). 50 stacks of bleed, poison, burning, – all with ~1400 condition damage, and you’re dead in no time, along your friends. More so, condition builds are actually really strong in the current sPvP meta, being effective against thieves and bunker builds.

I can get up to ~17 stacks of bleed on my necro, each popping for 130~155 dmg (depends on food and might from Blood is Power). I cannot maintain 17 stacks on my own, but i don’t really drop below 10.
I still outdamage that with my warrior and guardian, at least in PvE, but there’s one thing you guys are overlooking. Even if you can get 2000dps with your own bleeds and 2800dps with warrior’s autoattacks, and those numbers are just figurative, with conditions you simply throw your bleeds at your target and can do something else. You can heal up, use utilities, support party, or add some raw autoattack while still hitting. A warrior, while having higher dps when fighting, has to stop dealing damage from time to time altogether.
If you’re built for condition damage, throw some support in and drop that support once you’ve outleashed all your conditions. You’ll see what i’m talking about.

To answer your question: Bleeding stacks only to 25 for financial reasons. Every stack and every tick costs (server costs). They could balance bleeding so that everyone would have their separate bleed stacks of 25, but they won’t because that would make the server costs higher.

This is from an interview I read a while back, but cannot be kitten to search and link it, sorry

I think giving each player their own stack of 25 or maybe even 20 would solve allot of problems. Then adjusting the Dmg per tuck to make them do close to the same dmg as a direct damage build.

I would kill to see a ANet post explaining condition damage in PvE and why they cap at 25 bleeds. Is there any such post? Please link if so!

The answer to everything is “engine limitation” or “servers limitations” so chose the one you prefer.

because they still have yet to fix the problems with condition damage entirely. It’s just not designed well and thus is the reason why we really don’t see any other types of builds in PVE but burst zerker builds.

25 stack limit isn’t the problem, the problem it causes is not getting loot/reward with condition builds in crowded events and areas. They have to find a solution for this in pve, so we can get our loot/reward even if we can’t deal enough dot damage due to 25 stack limit. (ofc we’ll still try to deal damage to the boss, but if we can’t deal dot due to the stack limit, it’ll still reward us with loot.)

woah zombie thread

DoM.8396:

I would kill to see a ANet post explaining condition damage in PvE and why they cap at 25 bleeds. Is there any such post? Please link if so!

It’s been a while since the last dev post on the subject. Will take a while to dig it out – I’ll post if I find. It’s to do with bandwidth.

(I imagine this has been necroed due to the relevance with Teq next week)

edit: found a link http://dulfy.net/2013/02/25/gw2-arenanet-looking-into-condition-caps/

Randulf.7614:

DoM.8396:

I would kill to see a ANet post explaining condition damage in PvE and why they cap at 25 bleeds. Is there any such post? Please link if so!

It’s been a while since the last dev post on the subject. Will take a while to dig it out – I’ll post if I find. It’s to do with bandwidth.

(I imagine this has been necroed due to the relevance with Teq next week)

edit: found a link http://dulfy.net/2013/02/25/gw2-arenanet-looking-into-condition-caps/

There’s actually a more recent one, I posted in the thread where it appears so it should be in my history. Gimme a minute to dig it out.

EDIT: Nevermind same thread, good kitten has it really been that long since they last addressed this!?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Comfirmed-Nothing-being-done-re-conditions/page/4#post1505370

all you condi players just think youre entitled (shakes head)
/s

on a serious note condi builds will still be worse than direct damage for most dungeons. especially sword sword warriors (thanks the gods ive never had to play with one of those) direct damage is just better in most places because of how quickly bosses can be spiked down. However this doesnt mean they are useless. if they increase stacks to alot i could see myself using a condition build (not on warrior) in hotw 1 because the bosses there have waaaaaayyyy too much health. Like insane health and the last boss is annoying as kitten.

I would love to see and update on this. I play a necro and have a half condition half power simply because in a group i bring more doing power attacks then condition. I love condition builds and wish I could go full condition and not kitten groups or even myself.

If they cant redo the 25 stack limit make burning and poison more like bleeding or the other way around. I personally feel that as a necro I should be poisoning them instead of bleeding them to death.

Easy fix:

1. Make condition stacks unique per player. Player A stacks 12 Bleeds, Player B stacks 20 Bleeds. The target is taking 32 stacks of Bleed damage, but each player only sees their respective stack under the targets condition bar.

2. Make condition damage affect structures. This should be obvious, if Bleeding can affect golems, then it should affect structures.

Oh look…. 8 months later and not a word…

Hello… devs… anyone in there???

Don’t forget, objects such as doors, siege weapons in WvW, weapon racks and buildings don’t get conditions, soooooooooooooooo… .-.

Also, it doesn’t help that ALL precursors are geared towards Beraerker stats.

Why don’t they just make it so bleeds only tic dmg once per second x the stacks, why the hell would they make bleeds tic seperately? That’s just wasteful.

100 dmg per bleed, 5 bleed stacks = 500 dmg per second, instead of 100 × 5 dmg per second.

Simple.

And no this wouldn’t make dmg OP in PvE all of a sudden….. if mobs die too fast then you balance their armor/HP so it balances the dmg between power/conditions, since conditions ignore armor, lowering armor and increasing HP brings power dmg closer to condition dmg assuming condition builds do more dmg.

Somebody said in another thread Anet got rid of all their world builders when the game opened, i’d guess this would also effect core mechanics changes like Conditions etc..

That could be a main reason why nothing has changed and nothing ever will.

Dante.1508:

Somebody said in another thread Anet got rid of all their world builders when the game opened, i’d guess this would also effect core mechanics changes like Conditions etc..

That could be a main reason why nothing has changed and nothing ever will.

If that’s true than this game will only begin to sink, as if it hasn’t already.

Knote.2904:

Why don’t they just make it so bleeds only tic dmg once per second x the stacks, why the hell would they make bleeds tic seperately? That’s just wasteful.

100 dmg per bleed, 5 bleed stacks = 500 dmg per second, instead of 100 × 5 dmg per second.

Simple.

And no this wouldn’t make dmg OP in PvE all of a sudden….. if mobs die too fast then you balance their armor/HP so it balances the dmg between power/conditions, since conditions ignore armor, lowering armor and increasing HP brings power dmg closer to condition dmg assuming condition builds do more dmg.

The popups we see are just window dressing. The game runs a single timer pr mob affected by conditions, that each second calculates and applies the damage done. This has been observed in that condition builds that have conditions lasting longer than a whole second sometimes see multiple damage ticks and sometimes not.

digiowl.9620:

Knote.2904:

Why don’t they just make it so bleeds only tic dmg once per second x the stacks, why the hell would they make bleeds tic seperately? That’s just wasteful.

100 dmg per bleed, 5 bleed stacks = 500 dmg per second, instead of 100 × 5 dmg per second.

Simple.

And no this wouldn’t make dmg OP in PvE all of a sudden….. if mobs die too fast then you balance their armor/HP so it balances the dmg between power/conditions, since conditions ignore armor, lowering armor and increasing HP brings power dmg closer to condition dmg assuming condition builds do more dmg.

The popups we see are just window dressing. The game runs a single timer pr mob affected by conditions, that each second calculates and applies the damage done. This has been observed in that condition builds that have conditions lasting longer than a whole second sometimes see multiple damage ticks and sometimes not.

Are you sure that’s true? I don’t see how condition duration rounding up/down proves that, they could still be seperate timers per bleed.

And if you’re right then I don’t see the problems with increasing the caps or making the caps per player.

I don’t ever notice issues when epidemics go off.

And yet, condition damage is considered OP in PvP. People are complaining about the necromancer — yes, the necromancer, the group vying for the Least Welcome in Dungeon Parties (losing, perhaps, to the SB/LB/bear ranger).

IndigoSundown.5419:

And yet, condition damage is considered OP in PvP. People are complaining about the necromancer — yes, the necromancer, the group vying for the Least Welcome in Dungeon Parties (losing, perhaps, to the SB/LB/bear ranger).

Simply put, characters have much lower health pools than mobs and only so much access to condition removals. Meaning that it can be devastating once landed in any effective manner.

Then again, you can to some degree see the same in PVE when the characters are on the receiving end. Reef drakes, wintersday dolls, and most recently clockwork horrors, all spam confusion. And PVE confusion is twice the strength of SPVP confusion. Meaning that a 25 stack of PVE confusion is the equivalent of a 50 stack of SPVP confusion.