Guild Wars 2

Heinel.6548:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

goldenwing.8473:

The voice acting for Trahearne is outstanding!

It is a masterful blend of supercilious tone, pendantic droning and neurotic uncertainty.

The actor who voices this distraught, depressed, indecisive analytic scholar deserves accolades for imbuing a lifeless twig with some semblance of tolerable personality.

.

ANet constantly asked: “Is this character memorable?”

The answer is a resounding “yes”.

There was no qualifier in there for enjoyable or loveable. Nor any question about whether the player would EVER want to see the kitten thing again.

I’m not sure if you are quoting what has been said in the past (by Anet) or what…
but the voice acting is really bad.

When people in the game are having a conversation…. it usually sounds as if they are talking to each-other.

When Trahearne is talking, he is always at least one or more of the following
A) Reading his lines (as if he were giving a speech) instead of having a conversation
B) Actually giving a speech, but sounds more like a robot than a motivational speaker.
C) Emotionless or his voice doesn’t match what feelings he should have.

Though he might change tones of individual words…. the tone of every line of dialogue is always the same. Even when he is supposed to be excited or happy, his celebratory remarks are the same as a person just reading “Yes, we have defeated Zhaitan” instead exclaiming “YES! We’ve defeated Zhaitan!!”

I read the posted you quoted as sarcasm. I think you two are in agreement.

===

My beef with Trahearne is that his characterization is implausible. Charisma cannot be a hidden attribute. The entire thing about charisma is in the way one deals with and handles other people. If his personality is not outstanding, then at least make him physically attractive? Whatever that means for a plant… But to convince us that a sulking, pessimistic, withering necro that shows negativity at every turn and speaks like the a pre-recorded propaganda broadcast would also be an extremely well-liked leader with bffs all over the world? No amount of suspension of disbelief could make this fantasy sound right.

For comparison, Keiran Thackeray from GW Beyond was also a good-for-nothing (a bit exaggerated) turned charismatic war-leader. That story was a lot more plausible because firstly, the guy likes interacting with people to begin with, secondly, he was motivated (because of Gwen, who was higher ranked than him, but didn’t have the magnetic personally he had), thirdly, he had the player hero who was supposedly the most well-known perfect embodiment of virtue blah blah who was his mentor, and fourthly, the events lead up to giving him the moment to shine in the war in kryta. This all give us much better context and most importantly a believable path, along with real feedback, that a character has indeed transformed. Where is that level of writing in GW2? Honestly I think GW2 is better off without the personal story in it.

Actually I am not being sarcastic. And I’m not quoting ANet or anyone else.

I believe the voice actor did an excellent job. Didn’t say I liked the character.

The voice actor captured the essence of a stereotypic caricature of a “scholar”.

Trahearne is clearly in the analytic quadrant of social behavior.

I have run into academics that do not have a great deal of emotional responsiveness.

I didn’t say I enjoyed Trahearne (you will find one of my posts where I said he needed to be fed to Zhaitan.)

I do appreciate good acting.

Trahearne is not a leader. He obviously is uncomfortable in that position (again – analytic quadrant). And he does a good job demonstrating that. He is singularly focused on accomplishing his executable deliverable (cleanse Orr).

He is not particularly charismatic, yet he has acquired “friends” – people that respect his studies.

That too is something that often occurs in real life.

-apologies for abrupt style posting (posting between pulls)

The main reason I dislike Trahearne because after you meet him, the entire story seems to revolve around the Sylvari and how great they are.

Trahearne introduces the best blackmsiths? Norn, Tengu and…Sylvari (seriously, no Charr?).
All races can be turned into undead? Well, all but…Sylvari.
The greatest scouts ever? A group of Sylvari.
What knows the future? Only the great tree of the…Sylvari.
The pact technology? Combination of Charr, Asura and…Sylvari technology (plants are techno yo!).
Which Destiny’s Edge member is the only one that knows keeping the group together is for the greater good? Of course…

Seriously, all Sylvari but Seiran are terrible Mary Sues and THAT’S what I dislike about the story. There are 4 awesome races from Guild Wars 1, which we came to like…but no, the 5th race, Anet’s pet race has to come in and hog up all the glory and spotlight.

And frankly, I’m sick of it. They’re trees that are 25 years old at best. Let’s at least have them work together on an equal footing. The fact that (quote) ‘Tyria needs the Sylvari’ doesn’t mean that it’s ALL Tyria needs!

ThiBash.5634:

The main reason I dislike Trahearne because after you meet him, the entire story seems to revolve around the Sylvari and how great they are.

Trahearne introduces the best blackmsiths? Norn, Tengu and…Sylvari (seriously, no Charr?).

Because the charr bring the war machines, and the asura bring the high technology.

All races can be turned into undead? Well, all but…Sylvari.
The greatest scouts ever? A group of Sylvari.

These two are related. But we know the truth . . . the greatest scouts ever are charr. “Well we scouted ahead and found some resistance so we leveled it and came back to let you know it’s all clear now.”

What knows the future? Only the great tree of the…Sylvari.

Well, and the Six, but they don’t tell.

The pact technology? Combination of Charr, Asura and…Sylvari technology (plants are techno yo!).

Be fair. The humans and norn don’t have technology of their own.

Which Destiny’s Edge member is the only one that knows keeping the group together is for the greater good? Of course…

She just wants some friends who are crazy in ways that aren’t trying to drive her nuts too. (Faolain, I’m lookin at you.)

Seriously, all Sylvari but Seiran are terrible Mary Sues

People keep using these words. I don’t think they know what it means.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Because the charr bring the war machines, and the asura bring the high technology.

And both races would have made better blacksmiths. Why does a Sylvari have to make the top three? It feels way too forced.

Be fair. The humans and norn don’t have technology of their own.

Actually they do. But the defense of Fort Trinity of course come from Sylvari. I’m thanking Anet on my knees that the humans were at least allowed to contribute to the airships.

People keep using these words. I don’t think they know what it means.

You’re missing the point. It’s not that I want the Sylvari to not be good at anything. I’m annoyed by the fact that they’re good at EVERYTHING.

As for Mary Sue, I know what it is. It’s basically a Superman without kryptonite (and even with, Superman is borderline Mary Sue at times). As for Trahearne, especially after he gets the sword, he can do anything. He’s both extremely smart, a powerful spellcaster, and although the story forcefully tries to emphasize his inability as a leader, nowhere does it show that he actually is. In fact, there’s only one mission that I know of where one of his decisions backfires.

And of course, he cleanses the whole of Orr. Nobody can do it, except this one guy with a sword. Thus giving him godlike powers.

So to sum things up: the Sylvari are immune to dragon corruption, the can see into the future and they have godlike powers that can cleanse an entire continent.

How is that NOT Mary Sue?

ThiBash.5634:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Because the charr bring the war machines, and the asura bring the high technology.

And both races would have made better blacksmiths. Why does a Sylvari have to make the top three? It feels way too forced.

The asura would not make better blacksmiths. They’d make better metallurgists, perhaps. But not blacksmiths. And the charr don’t seem concerned with fine detail.

Be fair. The humans and norn don’t have technology of their own.

Actually they do. But the defense of Fort Trinity of course come from Sylvari. I’m thanking Anet on my knees that the humans were at least allowed to contribute to the airships.

The charr build the airships, I understood. Also, worth noting, nothing humans have can be considered as advanced as the other races. The best they have are trebuchets which . . . while impressive . . . were retired in favor of cannons for a reason.

People keep using these words. I don’t think they know what it means.

You’re missing the point. It’s not that I want the Sylvari to not be good at anything. I’m annoyed by the fact that they’re good at EVERYTHING.

They’re good at everything? Well, fine, but are they the BEST?

As for Mary Sue, I know what it is. It’s basically a Superman without kryptonite (and even with, Superman is borderline Mary Sue at times).

No. No it is not. Google “Mary Sue TV Tropes Wiki” and start reading.

As for Trahearne, especially after he gets the sword, he can do anything. He’s both extremely smart, a powerful spellcaster, and although the story forcefully tries to emphasize his inability as a leader, nowhere does it show that he actually is. In fact, there’s only one mission that I know of where one of his decisions backfires.

He’s also physically frail and tends to hug the floor a lot in massive melee situations, and his tactical sense comes largely from listening to options laid out by the leaders under him and deciding which one looks like it will work the best. Not that this is a bad thing, it’s generally how leadership works anyway.

And of course, he cleanses the whole of Orr. Nobody can do it, except this one guy with a sword. Thus giving him godlike powers.

The sword is the integral part to doing that, backed up by the fact the character has worked on rituals specifically to deal with this. So, really, “nobody can do it, except the person who’s put in the study time and has the sword”. In theory, anyone in the game could . . . if given Caladbolg and Trahearne’s notes, do it.

So to sum things up: the Sylvari are immune to dragon corruption, the can see into the future and they have godlike powers that can cleanse an entire continent.
How is that NOT Mary Sue?

1. The sylvari cannot see into the future, and nor are they privy all the time to the Pale Tree’s insight. Otherwise, no Faolain, no Nightmare Court, and no sylvari would ever be surprised. Ever.

2. It’s established in the mission where Trahearne performs the ritual that it will not be an immediate fix and still requires Zhaitan’s defeat to take hold. So while the purification is begun it will take time to finish.

3. There are weaknesses to being sylvari, which run deeper than simply there for the sake of being there. But we can run into what they are not immune to. Sylvari are not immune to poison or disease. They can be permanently injured or incapacitated. The only thing going in their favor is an apparent immunity to dragon corruption. Though it should be noted they die rather than become corrupted so it’s not as though they are immune . . . they simply don’t leave anything for the dragon to use.

4. They are not beautiful by standards of other races, not even close. They are not universally loved so anyone who doesn’t like them must be evil.

Here’s why it’s not a Mary Sue. It falls under the heading of "Mary Sue as ‘Protagonist I Don’t Like’ " heading in the page I alluded to above (but won’t directly link as it probably violates code of conduct).

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

The asura would not make better blacksmiths. They’d make better metallurgists, perhaps. But not blacksmiths. And the charr don’t seem concerned with fine detail.

The Asura make battlesuits they wear in combat. Also, they’d be the prime candidates to make magic infused weapons and armor. The Charr are a warforged race that don’t run into battle naked. The sylvari on the other hand, grow shrubs. Why is that better than either race?

The charr build the airships, I understood. Also, worth noting, nothing humans have can be considered as advanced as the other races. The best they have are trebuchets which . . . while impressive . . . were retired in favor of cannons for a reason.

Trahearne’s own words were that the airships were a mix of asura, human and charr technology. So the humans contributed something at least.

They’re good at everything? Well, fine, but are they the BEST?

The fact that they’re good at everything makes them Mary Sues per definition. There’s nothing they cannot do, whereas the other races have their obvious strengths (and weaknesses). I mean, they’re plant growing hippies and yet they still somehow contribute more ‘technology’ to the Pact than the Norn and Humans.

No. No it is not. Google “Mary Sue TV Tropes Wiki” and start reading.

According to wikipedia a Mary Sue is ‘a poorly developed character, too perfect and lacking in realism to be interesting’ which most here will agree applies to Trahearne. There is no realism in his leadership struggles. He is both a Guardian and a Necromancer. Also, he wields powers (through his sword) that few others in the world can even dream of, and it appears all out of nowhere.

He’s also physically frail and tends to hug the floor a lot in massive melee situations, and his tactical sense comes largely from listening to options laid out by the leaders under him and deciding which one looks like it will work the best. Not that this is a bad thing, it’s generally how leadership works anyway.

The fact that as a NPC, he cannot hold his own in combat has more to do with gameplay mechanics than actual character design. Lorewise, Caladbolg makes him the best fighter on the planet…or at least, a sword with continent cleansing powers should do so, or otherwise at least show lorewise that it doesn’t.

As for listening to the other’s advice, it seems for the most part (also due to his voice) that he simply doesn’t care, apart from completing his wild hunt.

The sword is the integral part to doing that, backed up by the fact the character has worked on rituals specifically to deal with this. So, really, “nobody can do it, except the person who’s put in the study time and has the sword”. In theory, anyone in the game could . . . if given Caladbolg and Trahearne’s notes, do it.

Yet it is of course the Sylvari that come up with a game changing sword. The only remotely equivalent weapon was a gift of the human gods. The Sylvari have it grow from trees (literally).

1. The sylvari cannot see into the future, and nor are they privy all the time to the Pale Tree’s insight.

Yet as a race, they can. Other races, in general, cannot.

2. It’s established in the mission where Trahearne performs the ritual that it will not be an immediate fix and still requires Zhaitan’s defeat to take hold. So while the purification is begun it will take time to finish.

Yet he is the only one that can even do such a thing, and it is by no means a small feat.

3. There are weaknesses to being sylvari, which run deeper than simply there for the sake of being there. But we can run into what they are not immune to. Sylvari are not immune to poison or disease. They can be permanently injured or incapacitated. The only thing going in their favor is an apparent immunity to dragon corruption. Though it should be noted they die rather than become corrupted so it’s not as though they are immune . . . they simply don’t leave anything for the dragon to use.

Which is still a huge advantage compared to the other races, which can suffer from everything you mentioned and then some.

4. They are not beautiful by standards of other races, not even close. They are not universally loved so anyone who doesn’t like them must be evil.

At worst the other races are annoyed. There isn’t anyone that doesn’t like the Sylvari as a whole. For the other races, such a thing cannot be said. The Asura are found arrogant, the Charr barbaric, the Humans are despised by Centaurs and even the Norn have their culture judged by the Kodan.

But nobody ever says anything bad about the Sylvari as a whole.

It’s not the individual things that bother me though. It’s that, as a whole, the Sylvari race seems to get a 10% magic find bonus all the time that bugs me a lot.

Tomkatt.1684:

I finally leveled my main through to 80 and through the story and…well, Trahearne is freaking awesome. I never felt overshadowed by him, more like partners. Throughout the plot it was obvious that we saw our development alongside Trahearne’s own growth.

I dunno, not ranting or anything, I just don’t get all the hate. Is it envy for that wicked greatsword he’s got or something? He’s pretty cool, IMO (but yeah, dat sword).

I hear you. I read some of the comments of how some think that he’s a replacement for Tybalt, or whoever you lose to Zhaitan, that he upstages the necro’s, that he gets all the credit for nothing. These guys take the game too seriously.

Knote.2904:

He’s whiny, lifeless, and get’s so much credit for stuff you never see him do.

Oh, except for when he upstaged my necro by summoning 5 flesh golems and everyone praised him for saving the day despite the fact that he literally does nothing while I kill everything for 99% of the story.

That’s all.

And that voice acting…. my god it’s like he didn’t even care.

I’m not trying to be rude or anything and I understand why you would feel that way, but I think you’re taking it a little too personally…

Honestly if people cannot after 6 pages of hatred for Trahearne see why hes not liked, i figure they never will understand..

He destroys the personal story at Claw island and for sylvari it starts at level 10…

He completely does nothing to help and takes all the players credit and ideas as his own, other npcs tell you how great he is which is upsetting because you do the heavy lifting..

The personal story is his not yours, the story after claw island is just depressing and mundane thanks to him mostly…

Nearly every meaningful character dies yet he continues to pollute the story every mission..

necro thread is necroed. But maybe players are too self involved and selfish, so they can’t appreciate a bigger picture than themselves?

Biggest complaint I hear is that he takes all the credit/attention away from the player. Second biggest is that people don’t like the voice acting. That is all opinion but I didn’t mind either.

Honestly I feel the sylvari are the “heros” of this story since they were created or born purely for the sake of fighting the elder dragons. All of the other races are in retreat as the sylvari are in full charge forward. Thus it makes sense in some ways that Trahearne a sylvari is leading the charge with his great hunt, while still being somewhat new and less experienced than other races and characters.

CMF.5461:

Biggest complaint I hear is that he takes all the credit/attention away from the player.

Well, the game does ask you “What is your story?”… and then answers with “Irrelevant. Instead, we’ll look at his story”
Personal story is anything but personal.

Honestly I feel the sylvari are the “heros” of this story since they were created or born purely for the sake of fighting the elder dragons. All of the other races are in retreat as the sylvari are in full charge forward. Thus it makes sense in some ways that Trahearne a sylvari is leading the charge with his great hunt, while still being somewhat new and less experienced than other races and characters.

Why would the other races care? Why should they care? Sylvari might be in upswing, but they still should be hopelessly inferior to any other race. Also, they are something completely new. Trahaerne might be a firstborn of Sylvari, but by standarts of other races he is just a teenager. And since he’s a firstborn, he didn’t have any experience of previous generations to support him, so he’s a relatively inexperienced teenager at that. Any claim that his knowledge may outstrip the knowledge of scholars of other races is at this point completely ridiculous. There simply wasn’t enough time for it.

And yet, the game claims that. Just as it claims that the wisdom of the Pale Tree is somehow important to all-knowing Asura, or the god(and mystical stuff in general)-hating charr. That the achievements of Sylvari are somehow impressive to the Norn. That it is a race that is respected by the humans.
It claims all that, but fails to answer why. Which, of course, makes the matter of Trahaerne himself even worse than it already is.

The thing is, both Trahearne and Logan Thackery are Mary Sue characters. They are the equivalent of someone’s pet D&D character, thrown into the story, and in the face of the players constantly, hogging their spotlight. They are all without fault, and all want to do good, which makes them boooooring, so boring. Who of you wasn’t annoyed how Logan Thackery sacrifices himself at the end of the story, because “someone has to stay behind”. No one needs to stay behind. There is no reason what so ever why Logan had to stay behind at all. Oh because the airship was anchored to the ground? You mean to tell me that these brilliant engineers could not think of any possible way to cast off the lines from inside the airship? Great design! No, the real reason they can’t do that, is because Logan has to stay behind. That is the ONLY reason they could not cut the ropes from on board the airship, and the trademark trait of a Mary Sue. But then to make matters worse, he doesn’t sacrifice himself at all! He comes back on an even bigger airship! Then what was the bloody point?!

With Trahearne, it is pretty much the same deal. As soon as he enters the story, there’s like a 180 shift, where suddenly we find ourselves helping Trahearne fulfill his destiny. We see Trahearne get a special sword, and Trahearne purifying Orr. Then Trahearne leads us all to victory. One moment the player is the main character, and all of a sudden, without any introduction what so ever, Trahearne takes over this role. It’s just terrible writing. But it’s also a crime against what players seek in this kind of game: They want to be the hero. That’s all this is about. What makes matters worse is that Trahearne is a character with no identifiable characters traits. He is without fault, he is good, that’s it. And that’s an empty boring character.

Imagine Mass Effect, if suddenly near the end Commander Shepherd is pushed aside, and a random hastily introduced npc becomes the main hero of the story. What a mess that would be. There would have been an outcry from the players, and rightly so. It is the worst thing you can do to your game’s story.

I didn’t think Trahearne soaked up my credit. In fact, I think that he was the guy leading because all three factions trusted him, but he never joined any of them. And he’s an Orrian scholar and we’re fighting Orr. And his wylde hunt is about purifying Orr.

But the heads of the various orders respect me more than they respect him. And he always calls on me to do stuff…and asks my advice about which way to go. He’s a necessity in this situation. A figurehead that never joined any order so no order would be seen as favored.

But it was YOU who brought Destiny’s Edge together, YOU who did all those missions to weaken Zhaitan and in the end, when you go to Arah, Trahearne isn’t even there.

I disliked Trahearne intensely when I played my first couple of human characters and even my first Sylvari.
Then I made my Sylvari ranger and I don’t know if it was because of my personal story (I met him almost immediately after I came out of the dream.)

But he grew on me in a big way with that character- she sees him as a trusted friend who has been with her and faced challenges with her since she awoke- she shares a part of her very scary wyld hunt with him and they can help each other fulfill their destinies- hers to slay Zaitan and his to cleanse Orr.

I just finished the mission where you go into Orr in the Pale Tree’s vision and it makes perfect sense.

I guess you have to be a Sylvari to appreciate him.

Morrigan.2809:

I disliked Trahearne intensely when I played my first couple of human characters and even my first Sylvari.
Then I made my Sylvari ranger and I don’t know if it was because of my personal story (I met him almost immediately after I came out of the dream.)

But he grew on me in a big way with that character- she sees him as a trusted friend who has been with her and faced challenges with her since she awoke- she shares a part of her very scary wyld hunt with him and they can help each other fulfill their destinies- hers to slay Zaitan and his to cleanse Orr.

I just finished the mission where you go into Orr in the Pale Tree’s vision and it makes perfect sense.

I guess you have to be a Sylvari to appreciate him.

Well, really, that’s a lot of the problem there. His involvement makes sense if you’re one race, but everyone else he appears from thin air and immediately takes over, making his already insufferable traits even worse.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Morrigan.2809:

I disliked Trahearne intensely when I played my first couple of human characters and even my first Sylvari.
Then I made my Sylvari ranger and I don’t know if it was because of my personal story (I met him almost immediately after I came out of the dream.)

But he grew on me in a big way with that character- she sees him as a trusted friend who has been with her and faced challenges with her since she awoke- she shares a part of her very scary wyld hunt with him and they can help each other fulfill their destinies- hers to slay Zaitan and his to cleanse Orr.

I just finished the mission where you go into Orr in the Pale Tree’s vision and it makes perfect sense.

I guess you have to be a Sylvari to appreciate him.

Well, really, that’s a lot of the problem there. His involvement makes sense if you’re one race, but everyone else he appears from thin air and immediately takes over, making his already insufferable traits even worse.

Oh I agree with that 100% it seems an oversight in terms of Personal Story, especially when he just sort of strong arms it unto the scene at Claw Island, which a bit of a shocker for most people.

Personally I feel the characters Story should be much more developed- I really hope they do this with Order missions down the line.
The Orders were one part of the personal story I felt should be expanded since they make such a big deal out of it and it has so much potential.
Occasional Order Missions after the end of the Personal Story could be a really nice introduction to the rest of the World and whatever is going on, once those things open up

Tomkatt.1684:

I finally leveled my main through to 80 and through the story and…well, Trahearne is freaking awesome. I never felt overshadowed by him, more like partners. Throughout the plot it was obvious that we saw our development alongside Trahearne’s own growth.

I dunno, not ranting or anything, I just don’t get all the hate. Is it envy for that wicked greatsword he’s got or something? He’s pretty cool, IMO (but yeah, dat sword).

Some of us here don’t believe him one bit because of his “years” studying Orr. He could have made a pact with Zhaitan and also plotted to overthrow the Risen Dragon with our help so that he can claim Orr for himself just like what Palawa Joko did to Elona. That is how I sees him. The Pale Tree was somehow deceived by Trahearne’s who somehow managed to manipulate the dream.

So, there. Trahearne is NOT as good as you think! He may be the next Palawa Joko in the making!!!

Trahearne is boring, incompetent, not charismatic,… . But well let me rescue Tybalt and send Trahearne into the death. There is no need to follow a green fricking !d!ot. Evertime Trahearne came up with an idea my charakter should say. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pDDri8VLfw

in guild wars i was the hero at the end, in this it’s a plant that jumped in half way :\

Something just occurred to me about Trahearne. Whether it was planned this way, or just a result of players’ reactions to him… there is a real opportunity for either a major Living Story or even an expansion based on Trahearne.

Now that you’ve had your groan, think about it a second.

The origins of the Pale Tree are obscure. We don’t really know where the seed that Ronan planted actually came from other than that it was found in a cave where the seed was one of many, guarded by hostile plants. The Pale Tree was tended by Ronan and Ventari and apparently absorbed their ideals which are passed on to the Sylvari. But what if that seed had been planted elsewhere?

We know for a fact that there is at least one more Tree out there that has resulted in Sylvari who are disconnected from The Dream/Nightmare of the Pale Tree. What if Ronan’s planting of the seed in that exact spot, and the Tree being tended by Ventari, resulted in something that wasn’t meant to happen? What if Ronan subverted someone’s, or something’s plan? What if the Nightmare is the natural, or intended, state of the Sylvari?

What if the rest of those seeds were planted in one place and allowed to develop… differently? If we assume that the Nightmare is the natural state of the Sylvari then there’s only one answer to this question: you would have an orchard growing an army. But who would need or want an army of plant people, immune to dragon corruption? There’s an answer to that as well – the Jungle Dragon.

What if the Sylvari are the minions of the Jungle Dragon Mordremoth?

How does Trahearne fit into this? Quite simply, he makes a perfect bridging character for a story that progresses from Zhaitan on to Mordremoth. While the Nightmare Court rebel against the Dream, Trahearne may actually be entirely self-aware and acting as a kind of double agent. He is not confused by the Nightmare, nor is he “corrupted” by the Dream, he knows exactly who he is and what his purpose is. It is not a stretch to see Trahearne’s Wyld Hunt, to kill Zhaitan and restore Orr, as a plan of Mordremoth to take out a rival Elder Dragon. He is, after all, the world’s foremost expert on Zhaitan. But let’s go further. As a result of killing Zhaitan, Trahearne is in a place of power and trust in Tyria, in other words, he is in the perfect position. Killing Zhaitan may have been just a ruse to get a minion of Mordremoth into just such a place of influence in preparation for his awakening.

All of these things that people so dislike about Trahearne may not be mistakes afterall – they may be entirely deliberate. Trahearne may turn out to be one of the main antagonists of the first expansion.

(While it would not make sense in the game simply because of the time involved, it’s easy to imagine that, just as the fruit of the Pale Tree are a direct result of where it was planted, planting seeds in Orr would produce exactly the kind of thing that the Jungle Dragon would want.)

Sokar Rostau.7316:

We know for a fact that there is at least one more Tree out there that has resulted in Sylvari who are disconnected from The Dream/Nightmare of the Pale Tree. What if Ronan’s planting of the seed in that exact spot, and the Tree being tended by Ventari, resulted in something that wasn’t meant to happen? What if Ronan subverted someone’s, or something’s plan? What if the Nightmare is the natural, or intended, state of the Sylvari?

The example we see shows us rather clearly, that the other tree is not Nightmare either. In fact, Nightmare is as much a fabrication born from Ronan and Ventari’s ideas as the Dream.
The other tree seems not to have as far-reaching influence on its children as the Pale Tree – they are allowed to grow up completely on their own, without any guidance whatsoever.
Unless of course the sample we saw was somehow unrepresentative – in which case we know exactly nothing.

That still does not rule out a tie between Sylvari and the dragons (a tie strongly suggested by the fact that they, as the only known example of living species, are completely immune from draconic corruption… which may simply mean that they are already corrupted and thus immune to other forms of it).

He is nothing compared to the idiot that was master togo in gw1. Master of stuck behind a rock and fail the mission.

I´m pretty sure it´s mostly hurt ego that makes him so hated.

Yet another broken ANet promise.
They promised us a grand personal story and we got to be a Cabbage´s henchman.
Ok, 2nd in command.
Some can deal with it, some not so well.

aspirine.6852:

He is nothing compared to the idiot that was master togo in gw1. Master of stuck behind a rock and fail the mission.

I’m pretty sure this thread is about the character and his personality (or the lack of one), not about A.I. bugs. Togo was, at the very least, interesting enough to die.

Hate is a strong word. His dialogue was terrible, and his voice acting was monotone and emotionless. The biggest thing that seems to be the case though, is that those things are universally true, and he had such a major role in the plot development. So it wasn’t like “oh, he was boring… let’s move on”…… rather it was “oh, he’ s boring… and he’s the number 1 plot devoloper for the finale of the personal story.”

I hate him because I believe he only exists to serve the lore for GW3.

It would be too difficult to write subsequent novelizations if the PC were the “hero” who led the factions to victory. Instead they created a surrogate who gets the glory in the histories while the PC is forgotten.

keeganrms.6301:

Well, if we’re taking the story seriously, he’s an idiot. The lord commander of the pact goes out on field missions with his lieutenants?! Are you kidding me?

I understand that its a fantasy world but its also not a kids’ cartoon.

This….

You would think that putting top leadership in the same group begs for Zhaitan to ambush the living hell out of you.

Zacchary.6183:

keeganrms.6301:

Well, if we’re taking the story seriously, he’s an idiot. The lord commander of the pact goes out on field missions with his lieutenants?! Are you kidding me?

I understand that its a fantasy world but its also not a kids’ cartoon.

This….

You would think that putting top leadership in the same group begs for Zhaitan to ambush the living hell out of you.

In the military you sometimes hear the saying “Lead from the front”.

May not apply directly in all situations but when my leaders don’t hide behind me and send me out as cannon fodder, then I appreciate and respect them more.

CMF.5461:

Zacchary.6183:

keeganrms.6301:

Well, if we’re taking the story seriously, he’s an idiot. The lord commander of the pact goes out on field missions with his lieutenants?! Are you kidding me?

I understand that its a fantasy world but its also not a kids’ cartoon.

This….

You would think that putting top leadership in the same group begs for Zhaitan to ambush the living hell out of you.

In the military you sometimes hear the saying “Lead from the front”.

May not apply directly in all situations but when my leaders don’t hide behind me and send me out as cannon fodder, then I appreciate and respect them more.

You are right. They were probably trying to portray that with Trahearne because that’s what I felt every time he took me out for a mission.

Either way it is tactically unsound. Just saying.

He’s a bit of a mama’s boy! But the real problem is the whole race is a disappointment. I was so looking forward to the race and it just leaves me cold. I can’t put my finger on it but I think their a bad salad joke. Visually they are so sorry and sad and instead of ethereal we get clunky leaf hair. Instead of beautiful flowers we got weeds. This race should have been amazing but it fell far short.

@OP

I find him annoying, but I don’t hate him. Granted, I’m a little peeved at play second fiddle once he waltzes in, but I can deal. Its more his design is flawed. They were going for sort of a ‘Data’ (Star Trek) like character (always curious, smart, learning human emotions, etc) but sort of fell flat with it. Not enough ‘growth’ to him.

When I bought this game I thought I was going to see my char evolve into this kick kitten hero that saved the world but instead I got tickets to the Trahearne Show.

Still waiting for Trahearne to give me my sword, army, and title back, thanks

I like Trahearne, too! And for the record, I thought Kormir was an AWESOME character in Nightfall.

I can understand why Trahearne annoys or bothers some people, but I’m not sure he’s deserving of all the full-on hate, you guys. ^^

I agree there is a gap between concept/execution…they could have introduced, explained and presented Trahearne’s character A LOT better, but I think the essential concept is good. This seems to be a problem with lots of personal story characters. Take Faren, for instance—there are hints he is a well-developed character, hiding an interesting personality and backstory under his ridiculous facade, but we are only given hints of that, never see it come to fruition. Maybe the Living Story will change that.

I am not being sarcastic either when I say I think Trahearne’s voice actor did a great job. A, he has the most amazing accent (from the point of view of flat-accent American me). B, his delivery is totally believable for Trahearne’s character. Why?

Trahearne is a scholar and a loner, not a leader. He is not supposed to be a charismatic general. He is the absolute unlikeliest general ever, thrust into that role.

It would actually be less believable if he suddenly developed compelling oratory skills overnight.

I found Trahearne’s humility and unlikely hero theme sympathetic. (Keep in mind it’s everyone around him, not Trahearne himself, who gives him all the credit…after being initially totally unimpressed by him. He did have to prove himself. Also there’s a lot of cheering for our character too, running past Pact NPCs at the end of the story.)

They pick him because of his a) one-of-a-kind knowledge of Orr and b) magic. Although the Priory and the Sylvari PC who retrieves the sword of awesome also contribute, it’s Trahearne who has the magic ritual woo-woo ability. I found it believable and I never felt like I was playing second fiddle.

Heck, would you really want Trahearne’s job? Sitting around in meetings trying to get the Orders to agree, except for a few missions he gets to go on with us? We get to have more fun by virtue of not being the coordinator who has to deal with all the annoying details. We’re free to go out and risk our necks a lot more, blow stuff up, and generally kick undead kitten.

Edit: Undead kittens? That’s…terrifying. :O

Zacchary.6183:

CMF.5461:

Zacchary.6183:

keeganrms.6301:

Well, if we’re taking the story seriously, he’s an idiot. The lord commander of the pact goes out on field missions with his lieutenants?! Are you kidding me?

I understand that its a fantasy world but its also not a kids’ cartoon.

This….

You would think that putting top leadership in the same group begs for Zhaitan to ambush the living hell out of you.

In the military you sometimes hear the saying “Lead from the front”.

May not apply directly in all situations but when my leaders don’t hide behind me and send me out as cannon fodder, then I appreciate and respect them more.

You are right. They were probably trying to portray that with Trahearne because that’s what I felt every time he took me out for a mission.

Either way it is tactically unsound. Just saying.

Perhaps such a portrayal would have been more convincing if William Shatner could have been secured to provide Trahearne’s voice.

I personally led the troops through Orr, securing victory. When the dust settles everyone is like “Trahearne is the best commander, the pact can’t fail with him”. Are you kidding me? The dude could hardly make any decision without me…

In the end, this is why I thought the “personal story” is pretty trash, and may never end up completing it. It was nice for the first parts, where you explore your area and your character, but then it turns out that it really doesn’t matter, and in actuality, your choices don’t matter either.

I mean imagine a movie that introduces a hero and develops them for half the movie, and then out of nowhere this other guy comes out and he takes all the credit while Hero #1 does all the important stuff. Whatever.

There would have been no qualm with making him a advisor to the pact, and then we would all know his sage advice was helping everyone. His character would still be critical to the plot but that deserves to be in the background and not shoved at us with every step.

In the end, it might have been good for a player to have a choice of going elsewhere to finish their story. Maybe they could go north or something. Or maybe turn evil. At least something you can decide on.

The Guild Wars 2 personal story – only personal until you meet Trahearne.

As someone that loathes anything and everything sylvari, you can imagine my utter disbelief when I found out that Trahearne was going to be your buddy for a large portion of the personal story.

There’s just something about (most of) the sylvari that really disgusts me. They’re always upbeat, they’re always trying to do the right thing, they’re obsessed with fulfilling some sort of personal prophecy that a tree gave them…they’re just way too goody-goody for me. And I’m a person that always tries to play the paragon role in video games. With the sylvari, though, it’s just too much to stomach.

That salad’s presence in my personal story completely marred my experience the first time through. I don’t even bother doing the personal story on alts unless it’s absolutely necessary for leveling. I’m totally turned off to the personal story as a whole now.

And if you come back with some kind of remark like, “you’re being unreasonable and blindly hating a race”, I have only this to say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c

Julie Yann.5379:

When I bought this game I thought I was going to see my char evolve into this kick kitten hero that saved the world but instead I got tickets to the Trahearne Show.

I think this nails it many bought the game for story alone, and were very very disappointed, and then angry..

Some NPC needed to head the Pact. It couldn’t be the player character. If it had, we would have seen threads about, “But I wouldn’t have done that! I would have done X, instead!” Would you rather Logan was leader of the Pact?

IndigoSundown.5419:

Some NPC needed to head the Pact. It couldn’t be the player character. If it had, we would have seen threads about, “But I wouldn’t have done that! I would have done X, instead!” Would you rather Logan was leader of the Pact?

I say our characters should have led the Pact. Our characters should have had many, many, many missions (filling up the level gaps in the story) in which our characters worked closely with all three Orders, so that when the time came for the showdown with Zhaitan, our characters would be the one person capable of understanding precisely how each Order functioned and furthermore, the one person who would know – due to direct personal experience – how best to get them to work as One.

Instead we got Trahearne, who not only becomes our bestest friend in all the world, but is quickly revealed to be the bestest friend of everybody else in all the world except for the bad guys (and probably them, too).

As for the “I wouldn’t have done that!” aspect, I deleted a sylvari engineer because of things the story wouldn’t let me not do. It was ridiculous and the sylvari are evil. On a stick.

i just hate we lose our awesome order companions and get them replaced for trahearme without having even an optional quest to rescue them.

Tomkatt.1684:

I finally leveled my main through to 80 and through the story and…well, Trahearne is freaking awesome.

He kinda reminds me of Will Crusher from Star Trek.
Aka, a bit of a ‘Mary Sue’.
- The ‘straight up never did anything wrong wonder bread kid who is a demi-god’.

That’s just not a hero in my book. Heroes need tragic flaws.

And he’s got no flavor to his personality other than ‘Captain Amazing’.

All three of the order sidekicks make for better personalities. Several of the ‘culture and race’ sidekicks do so as well.

Trahearne just had all the flavor of cardboard and all the crunch of butter…

Has anyone else noticed that every living story and plot device throughout this game has been, stuff is happening and we are all along for the ride. I think they did this purposefully in a sense that not everyone is “the” hero, but we are all contributors and vital in the developments that happen in the game.

Going back to the “personal” story. Someone raises to power, and we are there every step of the way, they finish their deed and that story is over, yet we are still around so we continue on to fight other dragons and evils as the game progresses.

If you haven’t seen it now, that seems to be the theme throughout the game. If you are not happy being a facilitator for greatness instead of greatness itself, then you will not like any of the story here so far. This way everyone can be a hero, but not one person is “the” hero. Keeps it more consistent for lore reasons I guess.

The writing isn’t that bad.

I wouldn’t mind him so much if his voice actor wasn’t so drab, and if the story had simply been called “Campaign” instead of Personal Story. After Claw Island, there’s nothing “Personal” about it.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Some NPC needed to head the Pact. It couldn’t be the player character. If it had, we would have seen threads about, “But I wouldn’t have done that! I would have done X, instead!” Would you rather Logan was leader of the Pact?

The truth is, the pact should have been jointly led by the leaders of Vigil, Priory and Order. It’s not like any leader from beyond those organizations could ever realistically be anything more than a figurehead.
Not because those groups would not allow it. Not even because the organizations likely have more experience in their specialty areas than most possible outsiders (it’s not like Trahaerne has any knowledge about military matters, for example), but simply because no outsider would be able to fully understand what these organizations are capable of, and thus wouldn’t be able to utilize their support to the fullest.
To be truthful, at the beginning of the pact story it seemed that everyone realized that, and Trahaerne was going to be just a figurehead. Unfortunately few missions later authors seem to have forgotten about it.

The wife and I pushed our 6th set of characters through the Battle for Claw Island yesterday and were both looking for a way to shut Trahearne up. We finally just muted the sound on our computers and finished the battle in blissful silence.

We are Kato to Trahearne’s Green Hornet…I wanted to be the Green Hornet.