Guild Wars 2

I mean, they dont have eyes, and blind doesnt work against them either…. so why does going invisible work against themi if they cant see you anyway oO? Fix this bug, buff dredge!

Gluttony.2017:

I mean, they dont have eyes, and blind doesnt work against them either…. so why does going invisible work against themi if they cant see you anyway oO? Fix this bug, buff dredge!

….ya know, that’s actually a really good point.

Dredge supposedly sense you via hearing and other methods….unless stealth somehow conceals the noise you make too (through the power of fairy magic), dredge shouldn’t be affected by stealth.

Dredge do have eyes, it’s just that they don’t see that well at all.

The same reason you can chill ice elementals, or burn fire elementals. Laziness.

Same reason why fire elemental work underwater

Don’t forget the amazing ability of making ghosts bleed…

Zandiya.8475:

Don’t forget the amazing ability of making ghosts bleed…

Well, obviously they’re bleeding, um….ghost fluids….

>_> <_<

Yeah, it boils down to the game not having obvious immunities and functionality applied properly to monsters.

critickitten.1498:

Zandiya.8475:

Don’t forget the amazing ability of making ghosts bleed…

Well, obviously they’re bleeding, um….ghost fluids….

Ectoplasm? Because yeah, I can understand ghosts or wraiths bleeding ectoplasm, or golems bleeding oil.

Now when you get to games that allow SKELETONS to bleed… that’s when you gotta wonder what the bloody eff.

I’m of the understanding that Stealth is inclusive of hiding and sneaking, therefore Dredge are not immune because of the sneaking or Tip-Toe portion of stealth.
Blind is in direct relation to attacking the optical senses, where as stealth is a general description of avoiding detection, which includes optic, auditory and olfactory senses.

…Olfactory? How are you going to…. so quickly… and disappear… like… I just…

ERROR. BRAIN REQUIRES REBOOT.

It’s a moot point. Stealth is magic. I realise that may seem a bit like “a wizard did it,” but it’s not — every class in the game uses magic in one form or another, and thieves use it to stealth. It’s not just “hiding in the shadows.” Thieves also use magic to teleport (shadow-stepping).

Besides, one could just as easily argue that stealth is not only about masking sight, but also sound. If Dredge navigate by sound, then thieves could simply remain hidden from Dredge by eliminating the sound signature of their footsteps.

Elricht Kaltwind.8796:

Besides, one could just as easily argue that stealth is not only about masking sight, but also sound. If Dredge navigate by sound, then thieves could simply remain hidden from Dredge by eliminating the sound signature of their footsteps.

What about smell? I doubt stealth also comes with a shower and even if it did, a wet charr would still smell like a wet cat…

We fight dragons who command hoards of undead and you want to nitpick over logic?

yeah sure, gimp thieves even more with these guys

TWMagimay.9057:

What about smell? I doubt stealth also comes with a shower and even if it did, a wet charr would still smell like a wet cat…

It’s magic that makes you invisible, right? It could simply shroud everything that comes off you; reflected light, sound, scent, etc. You’d become a walking void that can’t be seen or heard or smelled.

A Charr thief would especially be concerned about scent, considering.

Brutal Arts.6307:

The same reason you can chill ice elementals, or burn fire elementals. Laziness.

If by laziness you mean balance , then yes.

Chessrook.8643:

critickitten.1498:

Zandiya.8475:

Don’t forget the amazing ability of making ghosts bleed…

Well, obviously they’re bleeding, um….ghost fluids….

Ectoplasm? Because yeah, I can understand ghosts or wraiths bleeding ectoplasm, or golems bleeding oil.

Now when you get to games that allow SKELETONS to bleed… that’s when you gotta wonder what the bloody eff.

….um….they’re bleeding…..skeleton fluids?

>_> <_<

Well, if that’s so, why can’t we blind Dredge? Surely it wouldn’t be too hard to magically generate a loud noise to deafen them and throw a handful of pepper into their noses, thus preventing them from smelling or hearing you…

critickitten.1498:

Chessrook.8643:

critickitten.1498:

Zandiya.8475:

Don’t forget the amazing ability of making ghosts bleed…

Well, obviously they’re bleeding, um….ghost fluids….

Ectoplasm? Because yeah, I can understand ghosts or wraiths bleeding ectoplasm, or golems bleeding oil.

Now when you get to games that allow SKELETONS to bleed… that’s when you gotta wonder what the bloody eff.

….um….they’re bleeding…..skeleton fluids?

>> <<

Marrow. The word is marrow.

While there’s all these contradictions, unfortunately, conditions don’t work on “structures.” One of which being the Ice Storm in the snowy fractal.

I think they should change that… Even if it’s silly. As it is, condition stats seem such a waste, compared to going with pure power and critical hits.

Minos.5168:

While there’s all these contradictions, unfortunately, conditions don’t work on “structures.” One of which being the Ice Storm in the snowy fractal.

I think they should change that… Even if it’s silly. As it is, condition stats seem such a waste, compared to going with pure power and critical hits.

As a result it also doesn’t work against Dragons, since for some reason Dragons are Structures and not Creatures.

Elthuzar.9478:

I’m of the understanding that Stealth is inclusive of hiding and sneaking, therefore Dredge are not immune because of the sneaking or Tip-Toe portion of stealth.
Blind is in direct relation to attacking the optical senses, where as stealth is a general description of avoiding detection, which includes optic, auditory and olfactory senses.

This is pretty much the answer, right here. Being “invisible” is sort of a visual shorthand, or metaphor, for what’s really going on. It’s basically like how your attacks do more direct damage when you have a higher “Power” stat, and not when you physically mash the keyboard harder.

Why should the dredge have any sort of immunity to sneaking around? Even if I grant them advanced hearing or smell to compensate poor eyesight, we can easily assume a skilled thief would be able to toy with those senses too.

Heck, let’s just say that a thief is trying to sneak up on a dredge, and the dredge hears him coming and spins around to face his attacker. Okay, now what? Despite what Daredevil comics and anime may have suggested, blind people are not the most adept fighters.

The real question is why aren’t Dredge permanently afflicted with Blindness?

This is not influenced by any bias or hatred towards Dredge. At all.

Auesis.7301:

The real question is why aren’t Dredge permanently afflicted with Blindness?

This is not influenced by any bias or hatred towards Dredge. At all.

In the same way Daredevil isn’t “afflicted” with Blindness.

Oglaf.1074:

Auesis.7301:

The real question is why aren’t Dredge permanently afflicted with Blindness?

This is not influenced by any bias or hatred towards Dredge. At all.

In the same way Daredevil isn’t “afflicted” with Blindness.

Guess my joke flew right over. Lesson learned: I’m not funny.

Tool tip: “afflicted” refers to the in-game condition, like being afflicted with Poison or Weakness.

I understood what you meant, and my answer remains the same. You could have perma-Blindness on them, but it would just have to be the icon for Blindness that in reality doesn’t do anything.

What I’m trying to say is that I hate Dredge. Everything about them disgusts me, and if they fumbled around like buffoons, my life would be so much better.

How can you say that!

They’re my favourite minor race… after Quaggans, of course.

Well considering sneaking isn’t just visibly disappearing it’s also move silently and everyone but old school DnD players like me have forgotten that part i guess.

It’s a game. Some mechanics works “logically”, some works because “it’s a game”. I mean, can you run and swim and run and swim and jump off the ledges and dodge roll and fire weapons that never ran out of ammo and fight without resting after getting hit and gear that can be repaired no matter how many times they break and that you can be revived infinite number of times?

Some things work “logically”, some work because it’s a game…

What are you talking about?

I go swimming in a full suit of platemail daily!

Brutal Arts.6307:

The same reason you can chill ice elementals, or burn fire elementals. Laziness.

Embers are Immune to Burning.

Amos.8760:

Marrow. The word is marrow.

Think you missed the joke. Namely that it’s not really bleeding if there’s no blood. :p

Hahah this thread got me laughing thanks… they should probably fix these kinds of stuff some day.

critickitten.1498:

Amos.8760:

Marrow. The word is marrow.

Think you missed the joke. Namely that it’s not really bleeding if there’s no blood. :p

How do you Poison them when there is no circulatory system nor soft tissue?

critickitten.1498:

Gluttony.2017:

I mean, they dont have eyes, and blind doesnt work against them either…. so why does going invisible work against themi if they cant see you anyway oO? Fix this bug, buff dredge!

….ya know, that’s actually a really good point.

Dredge supposedly sense you via hearing and other methods….unless stealth somehow conceals the noise you make too (through the power of fairy magic), dredge shouldn’t be affected by stealth.

That’s exactly what stealth does, it conceals any form cues that give away your location, Dredge are very aural beings, stealth lowers the thieve’s heart rate, calms his breathing and lightens his foot steps to the point you can’t even hear his heart beating, his breathing or footwork.

Chessrook.8643:

critickitten.1498:

Zandiya.8475:

Don’t forget the amazing ability of making ghosts bleed…

Well, obviously they’re bleeding, um….ghost fluids….

Ectoplasm? Because yeah, I can understand ghosts or wraiths bleeding ectoplasm, or golems bleeding oil.

Now when you get to games that allow SKELETONS to bleed… that’s when you gotta wonder what the bloody eff.

Apparently in this game you can also get blood from a stone. Since you can bleed rock type elementals.

You can bleed rocks but you cannot set fire to a trebuchet.

Btw, dragons are NOT immune to conditions.

Have you tried fighting destroyers with a guardian ? That’s a nice little chunk of your damage that goes bye bye, especially if you specced for it. And it’s not like you could use something else like an elementalist switching to an attunment that doesn’t rely on burning, virtue of justice is there all the time and cannot be changed.

So before you start accusing the devs of laziness or failed logic and saying this is something that needs fixing, ask yourselves if you really want a game where you can loose half your effectiveness depending on the nearby ennemies. When I see how some people react to the Risen being a bit hard I can only imagine what sort of righteous fury some of the ‘realism’ discussed here would cause.

Making creatures immune/more resistant to certain conditions or damage types was possible in GW1 because changing your whole build before going anywhere was the way to play the game. In GW2, I’d rather accept a little more suspension of disbelief than have to pay for traits refund everytime I have to face a specific type of creature.
So I thank Anet for being wise enough to realize that while tiny bits of immersion are nice, they should only be placed where it doesn’t hurt the gameplay.
There are elements to this game that are far more immersion breaking than condition immunity (especially since conditions pretty much only show up on your UI), starting by the simple fact that anything we fight has to be smashed, hit, shot and cut so many times before it can be considered dead. Sometimes it’s quite ridiculous to see how much hits a simple human can take, yet I don’t think anyone would like GW2 to become a simulation game.

Tauril.8504:

Have you tried fighting destroyers with a guardian ? That’s a nice little chunk of your damage that goes bye bye, especially if you specced for it. And it’s not like you could use something else like an elementalist switching to an attunment that doesn’t rely on burning, virtue of justice is there all the time and cannot be changed.

So before you start accusing the devs of laziness or failed logic and saying this is something that needs fixing, ask yourselves if you really want a game where you can loose half your effectiveness depending on the nearby ennemies. When I see how some people react to the Risen being a bit hard I can only imagine what sort of righteous fury some of the ‘realism’ discussed here would cause.

Making creatures immune/more resistant to certain conditions or damage types was possible in GW1 because changing your whole build before going anywhere was the way to play the game. I don’t think anyone would like GW2 to become a simulation game.

You are absolutely right. And the game will be even better if there is only one type of monsters, maybe some very scary rabbits. And if you can kill hundreds of them with one hit, this will makes you feel strong. And no need to change the build

Brutal Arts.6307:

The same reason you can chill ice elementals, or burn fire elementals. Laziness.

Or maybe the players are tired of being gimped over “lore”.

It’s not fun facing an enemy only to find out your main dps is now destroyed due to “realism” in a game with magic and backpacks with over 120 slots.

Chase.8415:

Or maybe the players are tired of being gimped over “lore”.

It’s not fun facing an enemy only to find out your main dps is now destroyed due to “realism” in a game with magic and backpacks with over 120 slots.

But then the monsters become extremely mechanical and bland, they are just a number : how much HP they have and little else.

Specific resist and weaknesses add a lot of flavor and promotes balanced builds instead of specialized ones and adds variety of situations.

stof.9341:

Chase.8415:

Or maybe the players are tired of being gimped over “lore”.

It’s not fun facing an enemy only to find out your main dps is now destroyed due to “realism” in a game with magic and backpacks with over 120 slots.

But then the monsters become extremely mechanical and bland, they are just a number : how much HP they have and little else.

Specific resist and weaknesses add a lot of flavor and promotes balanced builds instead of specialized ones and adds variety of situations.

In other words, you want to say that bland monsters allow personal variance, but interesting monsters promote build blandness?

they have eyes…

Intriguing question…i have no clue, lol.

And I would like to see some more logical immunities in the game (flame imps immune to burning, ice elementals immune to freezing).

But really, idk XD

stof.9341:

You can bleed rocks but you cannot set fire to a trebuchet.

Btw, dragons are NOT immune to conditions.

Yes, they are…. somewhat. They get affected by Vulnerability, but I’ve never ever seen any damage numbers for either Poison nor Bleed despite these conditions being inflicted.

Oglaf.1074:

stof.9341:

You can bleed rocks but you cannot set fire to a trebuchet.

Btw, dragons are NOT immune to conditions.

Yes, they are…. somewhat. They get affected by Vulnerability, but I’ve never ever seen any damage numbers for either Poison nor Bleed despite these conditions being inflicted.

They do take dmg from all conditions but the numbers are hard to see

Hard to see doesn’t describe it.

They must be invisible.

I am a still not convinced…

Brutal Arts.6307:

The same reason you can chill ice elementals, or burn fire elementals. Laziness.

that or people would complain that they dont work against certain things.

i remember other games used to have similar mechanics, water elementals were immune to frost damage, fire elementals immune to fire, etc. people got mad and complained about it.

As in GW1, stealth is a magical effect, either by clouding the mind/senses, warping reality, or both.