Guild Wars 2

Please don’t pick up kegs. At least half the people ignore you and pick up kegs.
Please range Warden 3. One platform always wipes because they melee.
So on and so forth.

Why do players in this game have such a problem listening to orders? In games such as Eve Online, if a Commander tells you to do something people actually listen.

1) Nobody elected you commander, you elected yourself. Since all you need is 100g all it proves is you had 100g once.

2) Since 95% of the time GW2 is a mob of solo players, they are conditioned in not listening to anyone other than themselves. Boss your party of 5 around, fine. Trying to get a mob to listen too, good luck with that.

3) Considering everything in the game is the F key, just maybe they were trying to do something else and they grabbed the kegs by mistake.

Do enjoy the game but please check any WoW raid attitude at the door.

What do you mean ignore orders ?

They followed my instructions to pick up the kegs and to melee the warden perfectly.

BaconCatTheGreasy.9542:

Please range Warden 3. One platform always wipes because they melee.

Perhaps because this is a terrible command. You should ask your guardians to face tank the guy utilizing active defense.

Truthfully for me it’s the fact that I do not have instant respect for PvE commanders. That’s something that has to be earned by doing things like not issuing the above command.

Probably because they play games to have fun and not have orders barked at them by some random nobody who for all they know is a 10 year old crybaby who’ll call them a “Noob” unless they bow to their every whim.

Say “It will work better or we will win if we do……such and such” Orders? This is not the army. Accept it.

I’m betting the answer is somehow symmetrical with “Why does every fool with 100g to burn think he’s my boss?”

I’m generally open to guidance, but a decade in the military gave me a highly tuned awareness of who is and isn’t actually in my chain of command.

Nike.2631:

I’m betting the answer is somehow symmetrical with “Why does every fool with 100g to burn think he’s my boss?”

I’m generally open to guidance, but a decade in the military gave me a highly tuned awareness of who is and isn’t actually in my chain of command.

I worked that out without a decade in the military as far as GW2 goes :P

Sorry, that sounds like I’m being rude. I don’t mean to be.

I played some Guild Missions where orders were given and in some cases barked. I knew what I was singing up for when doing that though and I expected it plus it was with players who I had spent gametime with. I had no qualms about that. When Joe The Woriar is telling me how to play my game though, that’s a different matter.

Paul.4081:

I worked that out without a decade in the military as far as GW2 goes :P

Sorry, that sounds like I’m being rude. I don’t mean to be.

No offense taken . Just saying I’ve been in situations where obedience to command is the only acceptable response. Chillin’ on-line ain’t one of them .

I played some Guild Missions where orders were given and in some cases barked. I knew what I was singing up for when doing that though and I expected it plus it was with players who I had spent gametime with. I had no qualms about that.

Exactly. And I’m also reasonably likely to fall into line if directions are known good or I simply don’t know enough to tell. A good commander knows the extent of their authority and moderates their tone accordingly.

not everyone speak english.. for example i don’t speak english..eh.. kinda…well i did pick up the keg when i do wurm =)

If you’re a whiny kitten, it’s probably because you’re a whiny kitten.

If you’re being nice about it and you come across as advising rather than demanding, it’s probably because GW2 is a very casual game and the majority of players don’t know what most of their moves do, which compounds the average stupidity/kittenbaggery of your typical human being/player.

BaconCatTheGreasy.9542:

Why do players in this game have such a problem listening to orders?

Because you can not order someone you do not pay.

If you try telling me what to do in my game I will tell you where you can go jump.

Try asking politely instead, you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

I’ve got a better question:
Why do people who spent 100g on a blue tag automatically assume they have some sort of authority over everyone else?

Couple of observations:

1) sharing “best practices” and reviewing what has worked provides knowledge that other players can use.

2) inviting other players to be successful by using that knowledge is an inclusive attitude that may have players either wanting to follow and/or also sharing their knowledge which in turn also helps everyone

3) sharing/reviewing is NOT a demand. That allows players free choice. Usually players want to be successful and so will internalize the “advice”, which they will more than likely happily follow and appreciate..

4) There are many players who run with /mapchat off. Don’t assume malicious intent.

5) Leadership (e.g. being a commander) is not a right, it is a privilege that is earned.

- could keep going but hopefully point is made

Why do I ignore orders? You haven’t paid me yet.

Because you’re not the boss of me, I’m the boss of YOU!

Because you can’t tell me what to do you’re not my real dad! YOLO!!!!!

But seriously, this is something anyone who has ever tried to command on EB learns in about 10 minutes. Pugs are pugs and you will only ever have a limited ability to control their actions. We are even less inclined to follow someone who is just another face in the revolving door of PVE commanders regardless of what they have to say.

Well this are just my thoughts on this matter. You gotta earn commander title, not just buy it. If I see commander I don’t know (or see that he doesn’t know what is he doing),
then it’s solo time for meh

Wow, you were not a figment of my imagination?

Seriously though, if you want to command PvE events effectively here is a few tips—

Be nice—-don’t enter into petty arguments—a commander leads, and not pushes, if you make sense in what you say, there will people willing to listen.

Preparation—Tell the people in plenty if time what the event needs to be done successfully—-and why—-people like to know why they are doing something instead of doing it blindly. Which links back into explaining before hand. This doesn’t mean you have to start a dissertation to explain every single thing though.

Orders on the fly during event—-If you have prepared your team (by that i mean anyone willing to listen) this phase should be relatively easier as you have already laid the ground work.

Caps—-only use caps when needed. People will mentally block all caps users, and in any case makes the user look like a nut case.

Preparation after the event (and before)—-post where they can get information on the event—ie YouTube and Dulfy—Don’t take it for granted that as you know these sites then everyone does.

Don’t forget your part of a team. Everyone there WANTS the event to succeed.

Of course some will come on here and say something along the lines of ‘you don’t know what your talking about blah blah blah’. However, no-one said commanding was going to be easy. Leadership is part art , part science, not bought.

And last but not least—have fun—-life is short—enjoy it! ^^

Those who fail following orders at the Wardens are either completely ignorant, don’t read chat, or are trolling. I’ve seen people dancing around while they got agro from Warden 2 and happily kiting him around the arena, without ever bothering to pull him on his mines, those are trolls.

As for the kegs, simple, it’s a badly designed Achievement. When the battle for Cobalt starts, those who don’t have the Achievement yet, try their best to use as many bombs as possible for the APs.

All Wurms have an achievement, and they should work as a tutorial/introduction to the Wurm mechanic, but Cobalt requires way too many kegs to complete it, and it causes this “issue”

Really depends on the players.
Deso’s successful Wurm attempts for example tend to have very dedicated players doing the event over and over day after day until it succeeds.
The people who don’t follow orders are often also the ones who give up the fastest after dying over and over due to not listening.

Overflows… people use those for achs and they tend to have an extremely mixed group of players.

As for Marionette I don’t think all that many are interested in beating it.
Or at least I’ve never seen a truly organized attempt.

Some people are bad at english; some people just don’t look at chat. There’s always going to be some randoms doing whatever they want, and you just need to work around it.

There’s an idiot which I won’t name on Tarnished Coast who just screams “Commanders should be polite!” and “YOURE NOT THE BOSS OF ME!” whenever someone who actually knows the mechanics and has succeeded previously, tries to command.

Its morons like that that stopped me doing Marionette altogether.

Weird, ‘cause I’ve learned to block noise like that in about a second. it’s like muscle memory now.

There are many people who believe they know best and decide to not bother learning many aspects of a complex fight.

Let’s look at Tequatl – commanders will often post all info with links in map, ask for volunteers for groups. Yet the majority of the player base shows ignorance, laziness or only willing to Press 1 (Start Autoattack on Tequatl). They fail to realise that there will be a failure unless people actively learn the fights and what is required (eg Turret operators and defense teams for the turrets).

Even when commanders try to provide advise after a fight that fails or wins – they are often shunned and actively trolled by players.

There are two types of people:
(a) don’t need any orders/advice – we won/lost and will blame xyz. When they don’t often understand the dynamics of the entire fight. They don’t want to learn what is really required .
(B) will listen to the commander and slowly information will sink in.

Commanders in PvE are necessary to get groups to work together in a map.
When they pin up- it’s a high risk for larger battles as they are often subject of in-game abuse or apathy from players (majority) who feel it is not there job to help the commander. There is currently a minority that will help the commander.

Commanders will often have the best interest of the map /event so people win the event. Try listening and helping out- give them a chance. You may have never played with that commander before – it doesn’t hurt to try and follow the instructions and volunteer for stuff.

If you only want to follow commanders who you know – you are limiting your potential experience as there are many who have enough experience to assist maps to win things for you.
Commanders may seem to be ‘barking orders’ – eg SHOUTING in map.
Often this is a result of frustration, lack of time or other issues (people AFK or not volunteering) – bear with it and help out. Text has to be kept short during fights and sometimes there is not enough time to provide an advice attitude during large fights.

The Wurm is an example where commanders may seem to be barking orders- it is necessary to get all Wurms killed in-sync and this is causing extreme frustration when pugs decide to do there own thing and don’t listen. They are aiming for the ‘big win’ yet and try to help them out and follow.

Welll, I always try to have a bit of fun in chat before the event, a few jokes etc including jokey threats about rangers who use Hyena on warden 5. Try to get the advice across in a friendly manner.

Then when in the event I will post “DEATH BALL SPAWN” or “CHECK BARRIS PLEASE”. I’m not shouting at, I am shouting to get the job done. I run a DPS oriented warrior as my commander, often doing a 5th or more of the damage to champs on my own. If I leave to repair barricades, thats a valuable DPS source going to waste.

If we win, we sometimes (but not always) get a “Thanks to the commanders”. But if we fail, hoo-boy. Then I get complete ****s like that one guy I mentioned on Tarnished Coast who actually interrupt their combat to post “YOURE NOT THE BOSS OF ME”. That is why we fail.

Right because spending 100 gold on a tag suddenly makes commanders important…

If you want a really good idea what most of us think of commanders go outside onto a busy street and start barking orders to strangers that pass you by.

Maybe because it’s the developpers responsibility to explain the bossfights clear and proper enough to the players and not any commander’s?
The only role commanders play at the marionette fight was maybe to show the people where the 5 lanes ar at the beginning.
Definitely no need for commanders there for any other reasons.

Having 100 gold doesn’t mean you know how to play the game. The fact that you think a PvE commander even necessitates a chain of command is reason enough not to care what you think.

Commanders are valuable because people don’t seem to be able to read mechanic infomation on the bosses. Like the time I was in an OF trying to kite W2 into his mines and the complete idiots on my platform were just running in circles round the outside of it.

I don’t tag up unless I know the mechanics very well, otherwise what kind of a commander would I be?

BaconCatTheGreasy.9542:

Please don’t pick up kegs. At least half the people ignore you and pick up kegs.
Please range Warden 3. One platform always wipes because they melee.
So on and so forth.

Why do players in this game have such a problem listening to orders? In games such as Eve Online, if a Commander tells you to do something people actually listen.

We live in a free country (except for those that don’t, of course ;P)

Try asking politely, and maybe explain why something should be done that way, instead of bossing people around.
You might have more success (if someone does not speak english, you’re out of luck of course)

Most of the time I don’t even bother to read what’s going on in the chat box.

Wow, lots of hostility in this thread against commanders. Where does that come from?

Frankly, I lead by example. Players decide for themselves if they want to rally behind me or not. I provide information in map chat for players that do not know what to do, and simply give general instructions. Such as “Everyone to the portal”, or “repair the barricades”, or “fight this Warden with ranged attacks”. I don’t blame anyone personally for failing a platform, or for ignoring my ‘commands’, if you can call them that. Generally I consider it my job as a commander, to keep my army motivated (even in the face of impending defeat), and to instruct players that are new to the battle. That’s about it.

And even then there are players that are sometimes openly hostile for some reason. You’d think players would be slightly thankful for a couple of commanders putting in some effort, and trying to organize players, and aim for a victory.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Wow, lots of hostility in this thread against commanders. Where does that come from?

Frankly, I lead by example.

Exactly. I’m pretty sure noone has any problems with commanders that lead that way. It’s those that somehow think that having a tag gives them Divine Right to order people around that are disliked. And looking at the OP post does give that vibe, so no suprise it generates hostility.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Wow, lots of hostility in this thread against commanders. Where does that come from?
.

Because it’s very difficult to tell the difference between an experienced player who leads a group of dedicated subordinates and a kid with a big ego who spent 100 gold for the power to tell everyone around him what to do… until the “commander” starts throwing a tantrum and insulting other players because they don’t listen to him, at which point it becomes very easy to tell the difference.

Simple 100game gold back to the game for a silly blue icon doesn’t entitle you to respect.

Lol isn’t it funny when an event succeeds " oh I’m such a knowledgable great commander it’s because of me that it happened" but when an event fails " you guys are complete idiots why didn’t you listen to me it’s all your fault". If your going to demand obedience then take full responsibility. You say that you were knowledgeable in said event, you were in a leadership position, why did YOU fail the event by not keeping control of others? A good commander follows scripted attacks, a great commander plans for whatever uncertainties that will occur.

Going off the general attitude you have here I can only imagine what your map chat must of been like. The more you try to become an abusive dictator the more belligerent I become.

On the last note I do like the idea of getting paid to follow. I’m for hire 15g world boss, 2 g for reg event. Paid upfront and I keep drops.

This is why a commander tag should have never been able to be bought instead is should have been set up in a system where you earned it, because there are to many people in this world with self inflated egos that think they should be in charge. The best players that I’ve seen it this game are the ones that don’t need a commander tag to lead they just come by it naturally and know the game and know how to motivate people to get the job done without being bossy. There is one person in the guild I’m in that is a perfect commander but dose not want a commander tag. The guild has offered to buy him one several times but he has refused it. This is a true leader, so until you can be like this guy don’t activate your commander tag.

BaconCatTheGreasy.9542:

Why do players in this game have such a problem listening to orders?

Why do you think that buying a 100g icon gives you the right to order people around? Just because you have a commander badge doesn’t mean people have to listen to you.

I wonder this every time I do anything that even resembles high-end content.. I definitely have a wow-raider mindset when I do this stuff. If the leader tells you to do something you do it! It doesn’t matter if you think you know a better way to do it or think you’re going to die or whatever, you follow the leader’s orders without question. This is why I can’t stand the fact that it’s all open world and not instanced, if people can’t follow orders they don’t belong in high-end content.

If you’re told to stack on a tag you kittening stack. If you’re told to range a boss you kittening switch to your ranged weapon. If the leader tells you to run in a circle and sing a song you kittening run in a circle and sing a song. If people can’t do these simple things they should go back to the QD zerg where they belong.

You know, theres a reason why WoW did away with 40 man raiding and why Rift world content is 100 times better than gw2. 40 people is really hard to organize and trying to get more than that on a fight follow directions is like trying to run through a brick wall, its just not going to happen. In rift you can just join a world group, it explains what has to be done and where the events are taking place, and some would say “thats too easy” yeah but its world content and there is actually raids that you can do for a challenge.

Also the commander icon doesnt mean anything to me. It doesnt show skill, leadership, knowledge or anything else that people would think it would. All it really means is that you had 100g and now you can make a group larger than 5 and thats it. There is a reason why guilds go to overflow servers for these fights, its basically to have their own instance for the fight and they dont have to worry about others for the most part. No world content should be listed as “high end gameplay” when there are so many other variables that you just have no control over. If in a raid someone is screwing it up you can kick them out and get someone else, in world content you cant. You guys should know what your getting into when you do world content but you guys just rage and its Arena Nets fault for allowing these things to happen by not having some sort of instanced content. They would have to bring out raids of some sort to stop all these “why wont people listen?!” “why is these new bosses so hard?!” threads that happen at every single world boss revamp.

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

Why should the take the orders of some stranger who spent 100 gold? You don’t order other players. If you want to explain how something is done, that is one thing, but giving orders is only going to get you blocked.

I gotta go with this – it’s how you instruct the player.

I was corrected by a player during an event the other day in a very instructional manner “don’t kill that one – it will slow down our progress”. I complied.

After the event completed, he said “… the reason that is so is blah…”

Had he initially just said “don’t kill that NPC” with nothing else, I’d have ignored him. That one little addition (slow down progress) at the end of his sentence was concise and got just enough of the point across that I was curious enough to follow the instruction.

Nike.2631:

…but a decade in the military gave me a highly tuned awareness of who is and isn’t actually in my chain of command…

ROFL – my experience and opinion, precisely! The phrase that begins “run your nose up my sleeve…” has gone through my head on multiple occasions.

dustinharlin.8693:

I wonder this every time I do anything that even resembles high-end content.. I definitely have a wow-raider mindset when I do this stuff. If the leader tells you to do something you do it! It doesn’t matter if you think you know a better way to do it or think you’re going to die or whatever, you follow the leader’s orders without question. This is why I can’t stand the fact that it’s all open world and not instanced, if people can’t follow orders they don’t belong in high-end content.

It’s the other way around. It’s not the open world players that do not belong in high-end content. It’s the high end content that requires full coordination that doesn’t belong in open world.

dustinharlin.8693:

If you’re told to stack on a tag you kittening stack. If you’re told to range a boss you kittening switch to your ranged weapon. If the leader tells you to run in a circle and sing a song you kittening run in a circle and sing a song. If people can’t do these simple things they should go back to the QD zerg where they belong.

No, if the people can’t (or won’t) sing and dance on command, then it’s the content that should move somewhere else. Not the people.

Don’t treat other players like trash. Treat them like a mix between a kid and an adult : be nice, don’t get mad, explain and repeat over and over and over until they get it right. If someone insults you, ignore it.

Oh and say stuff in /say chat. People are more likely to see it, during Marionette at least.

dustinharlin.8693:

If you’re told to stack on a tag you kittening stack. If you’re told to range a boss you kittening switch to your ranged weapon. If the leader tells you to run in a circle and sing a song you kittening run in a circle and sing a song. If people can’t do these simple things they should go back to the QD zerg where they belong.

If I was in a guild with a commander that told me to range warden 3, I would do what is asked without question. I would however speak to the commander at the end of the event and inform them of the mistake.

A commander in PvE? I don’t give them a second thought. They are a dime a dozen. They are untried, unmeasured and found wanting.

MMO’s with “Raid leaders” and such earn their position from the guild they are with. Their power is gained by the loyalty of those in his/her guild and their reputation. It also ends with those in the guild unless they have earned greater power through reputation.

GW2 goes a different route. These “leaders” do not earn their position. They purchase it. It comes with exactly as much power as you would expect. None. The only way for commanders to obtain actual power is to earn respect. Those that are successful, helpful, friendly, and visible may eventually gain enough power to actually assert influence. This is what happens to WvWvW commanders. They earn respect through their time, effort, and success in the battles.

Astralporing.1957:

dustinharlin.8693:

I wonder this every time I do anything that even resembles high-end content.. I definitely have a wow-raider mindset when I do this stuff. If the leader tells you to do something you do it! It doesn’t matter if you think you know a better way to do it or think you’re going to die or whatever, you follow the leader’s orders without question. This is why I can’t stand the fact that it’s all open world and not instanced, if people can’t follow orders they don’t belong in high-end content.

It’s the other way around. It’s not the open world players that do not belong in high-end content. It’s the high end content that requires full coordination that doesn’t belong in open world.

dustinharlin.8693:

If you’re told to stack on a tag you kittening stack. If you’re told to range a boss you kittening switch to your ranged weapon. If the leader tells you to run in a circle and sing a song you kittening run in a circle and sing a song. If people can’t do these simple things they should go back to the QD zerg where they belong.

No, if the people can’t (or won’t) sing and dance on command, then it’s the content that should move somewhere else. Not the people.

There is no reason not to have high level/elite content within an open world environment. That some people are “bads” doesn’t mean the content should not be there.

All it means is that those who do said content, should expect to see some people who ether can’t, or simply won’t, do the right thing. Such is life.

Astralporing.1957:

It’s the other way around. It’s not the open world players that do not belong in high-end content. It’s the high end content that requires full coordination that doesn’t belong in open world.

No, if the people can’t (or won’t) sing and dance on command, then it’s the content that should move somewhere else. Not the people.

I completely agree with you, raid type content should never have been open-world, it should have been instanced from the start. I don’t understand A-net’s logic behind making it open-world in the first place but this is what they gave us to work with unfortunately.

What does ‘range Warden 3’ mean? Perhaps not everyone speaks MMO-speak.

Maybe this example isn’t that bad, but most ‘orders’ I see in this kind of content are totally incomprehensible to many of us. For some reason I don’t have much of a problem with it in wvw, it seems to be in open world events like Teq and OoM that you get people giving incomprehensible commands and then getting shouty with everyone for not carrying them out. Honestly, I just think ‘Huhh??’ half the time I see these ‘orders’.