Guild Wars 2

One of the things that made durability stomachable in WoW was that I could easily do a daily or two and cover all my repair costs. At level 80, repair costs can often be higher than the 5 silver that you get from doing the daily achievement. (And yes, there’s also the argument that you’ll get an additional 5 to 10 silver from the 5 dynamic events.)

I realize that ANet is trying to use everything as a gold sink to “keep gold valuable” but I still think repair costs are absurd when you take into account waypoint costs.

If you die, you pay at least 1.4 silver (at level 80, depending on how close the nearest waypoint is) and then pay about the same for one repair.

WoW doesn’t have “revive” costs beyond small durability loss as long as you run back to your corpse. (and if you choose to rez at the shrine, you just deal with more durability loss… Which can, once again, easily be covered by daily quest rewards.)

When ANet first announced durability, they were downplaying it stating that it wouldn’t affect gameplay. I’d argue the converse, that it affects gameplay far more than any other MMO that I’ve played.

I still doubt ANet will ever be able to maintain the economy the way they want to and retain their player base.

How often are you dying doing dailies?

I dont have trouble paying for transportation nor anything.

10 minutes doing any heart will give you enough trash items for sale to cover any cost.

Dungeons is even more obvious.

Repair costs are almost negligible unless you personally die a lot. I’d argue that this game has one of the most reasonable durability systems I’ve seen.

If you want excessive repair costs, look at Aika Online, where gear naturally degrades through use (and even more on death) and repair costs are so high that you basically have to grind to pay for your grinding.

One death plus waypoint cost can amount to 5 silver.

It’s absurd, really.

I never even had to consider repair costs in WoW, but here they’re thrown in my face.

Also, have any of you been to Orr where there’s Risen every 5 feet and they respawn every 30 seconds?

Minos.5168:

One death plus waypoint cost can amount to 5 silver.

It’s absurd, really.

I never even had to consider repair costs in WoW, but here they’re thrown in my face.

Also, have any of you been to Orr where there’s Risen every 5 feet and they respawn every 30 seconds?

5 silver is literally nothing. A single dungeon run with mediocre drops typically amounts to about 50 silver.

And yes, I’ve been to Orr. I thoroughly disliked it and I actively avoid it in favor of the more interesting and more fun Frostgorge Sound.

I’ve never played wvw and not earned more than repair.

I’ve never done open-world pve and not turned a profit.

The daily achieve isn’t about the 5 silver. It’s about the big ol jugs.

While the daily doesn’t necessarily reward you in terms of coin, it is a nice chunk of xp, a mystic coin, and a jug o’ karma… most people do it for these reasons and less so for the coin.

I actually haven’t left Orr in almost two weeks. I run the Plinx chain until I get bored, then I head off to try to collect more skill challenges and POI’s. I rarely get downed. If I want to clear an area to get at some tastly nodes that I want, I don’t try it solo. I wait for a couple of other people to show up, or I move on to another area. If I find an area that I just can’t get through, and I’m the only one there, I go somewhere else.

Since I’m really not getting downed that much, the rewards from the DE’s and daily completion aren’t needed for repairs. I can use it to buy things off the TP. So I think the rewards need to be nerfed. They just hand out way too much cash. Way more than is needed to cover repairs. I use waypoints to jump all over the map, and I still come out ahead.

See what I did there? How much money you make/lose during a play session is completly based on how you play. So play in an easier zone, craft better gear, learn to dodge better, or stop soloing if losing money makes you angry.

You do have the option of asking if there’s anyone who can come revive you in /map chat. More often than not I’ve found someone will usually come help, unless you happen to have a champion mob dancing on your corpse.

Why should the daily reward compensate for player death?

I frequent Orr whenever I play, I am actually in the foum minority that likes the area for all its ups and downs. I also die from time to time, unless you warp across the map, a typical cost of dying is around 3s (1.6 for repairs, and whatever you pay for wping).

You can literally make that back doing a single defense event in a 70+ area, or by mining a few Mithrill nodes. 5 minutes total.

Repair costs used to bug me. So did WP costs. I think it was the worst in the 65-80 range when I was getting to Orr and still needed to save money for exotics and needed crafting mats to lvl my crafting disciplines.

These days, I look at my gold at the start of my play session, and I look at it at the end, and I don’t sweat the minor ups and downs. Most days, I’m up at least 1g, with gains in T5 and T6 crafting mats, gains in karma,

I will say that I remember doing the Temple of Balthazar event one night recently with my girlfriend… we were watching this lvl 68 Ele try to do the event, and watching her go down again, and again, and again. It became our mission of the day to protect the ele… I shudder to think what her armor repair bill looked like in the end, but I have to give her some props for hanging in till the end of the event and trying to help as much as she could.

If you find yourself dieing enough that the repair costs out weigh the reward in drops, consider a few things:

1) Am I under-geared for my level / zone? You don’t need exotics, but at the very least, rares of the appropriate level are a must in most late game zones.

2) Am I biting off more than I can chew? Some events in Orr may look soloable only to prove themselves more punishing than you expected, requiring a larger group to complete. If the $$ is more important than the sense of accomplishment of finishing the event, know when to cut your losses and move on.

3) Am I in the middle of an L2P issue? Please note, THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS. I’ve had great conceptual build ideas that do not pan out in practice and I eat dirt for trying…. I’ve also gone for different weapon sets to try something new and I know my reflexes and skill use just isn’t as sharp as what it was on the weapon set I had more hours invested in. Try going back to a zone you’re comfortable / familiar with and run through things till you feel solid on your changes, then go back to the more challenging content.

Best of luck to you, I promise, there’s light at the other end of the tunnel!

I run the daily events in Bloodtide Coast (lvl 47 or so) with my lvl 80 engineer, who basically lives in Lions Arch while I am playing my warrior and ele. It is just south of Lions Arch so there is no waypoint cost. I haven’t died in recent memory and the run also nets a good supply of crafting/trading materials. If you don’t already have one, you might consider making an alt and running the daily events in your starter area. I did daily events in Metrica Province until I leveled up. The starter areas that I have visited all have copper, which sold well enough to justify mining it.

In normal PvE I agree that the repair costs are quite reasonable.

However in WvW its a further reason for losing servers to not even show up, and in dungeons its a penalty for not going elitist in your search for a group.

Why are you dying so much?

And the daily isn’t for the 5 silver, it’s for the mystic coin and the jug of karma.

Kuldred: Exactly. So you’re arguing that I should play like you. Farm a silly chain (with a massive group of other players, which will result in fewer deaths) for gold and items. What if I don’t want to play like you?

Just like you pointed out, you do the Plinx chain until you get bored. So it’s not “fun”, obviously, or you wouldn’t get bored with it. It’s something you do out of obligation to make money.

It’s grind. ANet claimed they were avoiding grind.

And to everyone saying “die less”, that’s not really a productive argument. Death happens. Especially when you’re going up against champions that hit hard.

I don’t understand why everyone’s so ok with repair costs because it forces them to just “play it safe” and stick with the majority of other players doing easy quest chains to farm gold.

That’s grind. It’s dull and boring.

I hate to be obvious here, but if your complaining about repair cost, perhaps you need to re-evaluate either, your gear, your build, your tactics, or possibly your skill, before you start sounding accusatory, in a manner implying you are short changed somehow by the daily’s

I’m implying that ANet’s game design is flawed.

The point to a game is being able to play how you want to, without it feeling like a grind.

And yet, everyone here is arguing to make it more of a grind.

That’s the only point to high repair costs. It discourages players from going away from where the large mass of other players happen to be in the map. So if there’s some less popular quest chain, it’ll never get accomplished until people beg and complain in chat.

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen people begging for others to do the Melandru’s Temple quest chain in the Cursed Shore because everyone’s too busy farming easier events.

There’s huge masses of people farming the Plinx event chain, while Grenth and Melandru are contested zones.

It’s ridiculous, really. High repair costs deter people from doing things that are challenging.

So, coglin, it’s really nothing about skill. It’s obvious the effect this is having on the game and everyone seems to be ignoring it.

I’m geared for the areas I’m in and I still struggle to break even. I’m an ele and I find it disheartening how much it costs. I’m usually hovering around 1-2 gold and can’t get any more than that usually as the surmounting costs cut any profits I make to get more money. It won’t matter much anymore because I’ll probably become one of those who will spend real cash on gem cards and what not to get what I need and be converting real cash into gold.

Uhm…
You can complete all of your dailies in less than an hour just by picking a zone or two to run around in. And if you are dying a lot in the process, no offence but you are doing something wrong. Maybe try doing your dailies in a low level zone if you are having that much trouble; while you are down-levelled, you do keep all of your gear, abilities and traits, so it’s pretty easy if you want to rush through them with little risk of dying.
Completing the dailies is not arduous, and the rewards are a very generous compensation for relatively little effort. While I think the game does need some changes and tweaks, this is not an area where it requires them.

You only get repair costs when you die.
If you find yourself dying, you are doing something wrong.
Stop doing it.

Alternatively treat the dungeons as your dailies. With a little practice you should be able to find a dungeon you can regularly run in less than an hour without dying; a complete dungeon run should net you between 50s and 1g. And you get tokens and karma too.

excuse my nosy question, but just how often are you dying in this game? Outside of dungeons you really have to be asking for it to die even once while qualifying for daily achievement. Either I am totally uber (which I really doubt) or you must be playing extremely bad, with a big exclamation mark.

I’m not saying I die doing dailies. I’m making the comparison that I can cover all my repair costs in WoW by doing a daily quest or two.

You can’t do this in GW2.

I die by doing things like exploring, and getting skill points, etc.

I’m not saying doing the dailies is difficult. I’m saying repair costs are absurd.

I just did the Plinx chain for a bit for the sake of argument, and the rewards for kills are the same as elsewhere… but with 100 other people around me, it’s harder to die. So it’s all profit.

So, yeah, if you want this game to be dead in a few months… Leave repair costs as they are. Because there were people shouting “Come do Melandru! Come do Grenth! Come defend Arah!” and yet, no one farming Plinx left. Everyone’s farming Plinx for legendaries.

And then what? What next? After they get their shiny item, what will be their point to playing?

There’s no point to the game if it isn’t fun. Repair costs just encourage people to do easier things to make money (like the Plinx chain). I don’t see why so many of you fail to understand this and argue “Oh, you’re dying too much. You should farm the Plinx event like I do. Do something easier.”

Why is everyone so opposed to reducing repair costs? The primary change that I see happening is that people might be more likely to do a variety of things… Rather than farm easy event chains.

Wow people will complain about anything wont they?

I die a LOT and haven’t noticed repair or WP costs once. You’re obviously doing something horribly wrong and the fact that you think you should be rewarded for it is hilarious.

How am I saying I should be rewarded for it? I’m merely stating that in WoW, repair costs are negligible.

I’m also making a point that it’s restricting players into this whole “mass farming” mindset.

It’s ridiculous that no one sees a problem with this. That 100-something people on each server run around and do the same event chain over and over because it’s the best way to make gold.

We’re opposed to reducing repair costs because they are already silly cheap. Death shouldn’t just be a reset button you press over and over again with no penalty.(WOW)

Repair costs are definitively not “killing” this game, if you are really losing money by playing each day then maybe its time to change your strategy a bit?

Kular, so tell me… If they’re not killing the game, then why does everyone in Cursed Shore tend to stay with the quest chains in the north rather than attempt the more difficult quest chains in the south (with Melandru and Grenth)?

As you have already stated, most people in Orr are just grinding, mostly for karma or gold. There are plenty of video’s and websites that have already reported on what the most “efficient” grinding patterns are.

I’m not saying I agree or like it, but that is what will happen with any game with a reward. People want gear, legendaries, gold for gems, etc, and will find the best ways to get those items.

They are not doing it to cover their repair costs…

Why should it when everything you do while doing the daily reward already covers it….and you can do the daily reward anywhere you want in the entire map. You’re not in any way restricted to Orr.

You don’t actually suffer repair costs unless you die anyway, and if you’re dying often enough that the 5-ish silver + everything else you get in the process of doing the daily doesn’t cover it, it probably isn’t the game’s fault.

Kular: Exactly. Because they’re not dying from doing easy quests.

I’m saying they avoid doing harder things because it would result in less profit. This is the issue. Profit should scale based on effort required.

I don’t want to advocate for you to not have fun. I don’t want to advocate for you to not explore to your heart’s content.

That being said, there are some things to recognize about endgame areas:

1) Some events are made to need help. I play with guildmates and family members frequently, but sometimes I’m solo. Don’t feel like you can / should take everything on when you’re solo, that’s a time to find the popular events and work those (and no, I don’t mean Plinx…. personally, I really, really like the March to the Temple of Balthazar, from Lone post all the way up, and I find it very profitable, but that’s me.) When you have a friend or two to explore with, branch out.

2) Don’t be afraid to kick start something. Frequently, when you find an event, linking a PoI or WP to map chat and seeing if there’s interest in an event is an easy way to get others out there. Or to make new friends.

3) GW is a game that will try to kill you and encourage you to roll / dodge / retreat and try again. Don’t get too stubborn, roll back, break out of combat and reassess frequently if you feel like you’re near death. Doesn’t hurt when you see someone going the same direction to fall in and run with the small pack a bit either.

Just curious, what profession are you playing Minos?

You could always join a queue for WvWvW, use the teleport pad there, use the repair facility there, then log out and log back in. This will have the effect of reviving you in the exact place that you died (provided you weren’t already in an instance) with repaired armour.

The downside is that a full server will mean that you may need to queue for WvWvW.

Just go to the beginner areas to finish your daily.

Minos.5168:

Kular, so tell me… If they’re not killing the game, then why does everyone in Cursed Shore tend to stay with the quest chains in the north rather than attempt the more difficult quest chains in the south (with Melandru and Grenth)?

People run Grenth for profit all the time. Massive adds there, and plenty of chance to net a lodestone or two, if you’re good at tagging the elementals.

But to tackle your actual question, people don’t run the “harder content” because it requires a hell of a lot more time and effort to net less profit. This has, literally, nothing to do with repair costs. If I can pick up 1g per hour running Plinx, why would I go run events that I’ve already seen (and I don’t find enjoyment in doing) for less reward?

I would gladly run some of the other events if I got equal reward for my effort. To shake it up and do something different, if nothing else. Hell, I’m still working on my world completion, so I often find myself in far-flung corners of the map when I’m not farming. But when I’m trying to make some cash, I’m going to do it in the most efficient way possible. And currently, that’s farming central CS.

For the record, I waypoint around Cursed Shore like a half dozen times per day, just because I don’t feel like taking the extra two minutes to walk somewhere, and I still manage to keep a healthy bankroll.

Well my repair costs for any given day are between 0 and a few silver. Seems to cover it just fine.

so your complaint is basically aimed at removing the only minor annoyance of death in a game that barely penalizes dying anyway and hence make pve even easier (and more boring)? Then I have to say no, repair costs are fine. And it is irrelevant how repair costs are handled in another game.

Stop dying so much and you’ll be fine.

repair costs for an 80 are what 10 silver if you wait for the red broken icon? I dont find that unreasonable since you can pretty much make that back in 5 mins .

Minos.5168:

I’m not saying I die doing dailies. I’m making the comparison that I can cover all my repair costs in WoW by doing a daily quest or two.

So your crying because dailies pay in a reward other then cash? You want daily quest that give enough cash to pay your general repair bill?

So your complaining that the need to make changes in the game to conform you your personal desires. It is embarrassing to have folks so selfish in this community.

if you prefer wows dailies, feel free to pipe down and go play the panda mmo if you feel it is so much better. Other wise all your idea will do is flood more gold into the economy just because you want more for yourself. Got to love players so greedy that they prefer to change the economy just for them.

While we are here, are their any other ways you would like to destroy the game to fulfill any other immediate need you have?

1/ repairs are cheap, about ten silver on a full set of exotics with a single broken item
2/ dying is almost impossible for people with skill. Only on the first run in an explorer it may happen once or twice or once with failPUG = leave group.
3/ from the odd key or some daily I get I sometimes get repair canisters. These usually suffice. I use 1 canister every few days.
4/ while not full orange yet replacing gear happens faster than breaking it.

Repair costs aren’t a probelm.

I am perfectly fine with repair costs. However the waypoint cost is rather obsurd. If your jumping from point to point helping guildies and doing events, dungeons or working on something like hearts or map completion way point cost can add up very quickly in an evening of play. I can honestly say they paying these costs for actively engaging in helping your Friends, Guildies and just plan group activity which is the type of gameplay Anet promotes is just wrong.

True you can enter heart of the mist, gate to Lions arch and then gate to the closest zone to keep cost down but do we really need to go thru the trouble?

1 suggestion I would make is introduce an asuran NPS selling asuran passports for say 75silver – 1 gold for a month of free waypoints or make it a gem store item were it would be 100 gems/ 30 days, 450gems/ 60 months, 800 gems/ 1 year.

Repair costs are nothing if compared to waypoints. I spend more than I earn from completing a heart. They should either reduce the travel costs or raise what we earn.

Last month the monthly gave me, on my level 80, 52 copper. The issue isn’t daily gold (as you get what, 3 silver?) it’s monthly gold reward. Or rather, monthly copper reward.

Trouble with gold? Lol, I have a tip:

Run AC explorer path 1,2 and 3 every day. Each path is a guaranteed 15+26s = 41s a run (not including loots) which adds up to 1,2g each day.

Also the less you die, the richer you become.

There you go =)

I remember the MMO’s wher you died you had a chance to leave your equipement behind. I remember dieing while lvling and had to run ASAP back to get my stuff back, ofc some kitten took my body so I first had to kill him o retrieve my kitten. THOSE were the days =)

Minos.5168:

One death plus waypoint cost can amount to 5 silver.

It’s absurd, really.

I never even had to consider repair costs in WoW, but here they’re thrown in my face.

Also, have any of you been to Orr where there’s Risen every 5 feet and they respawn every 30 seconds?

As a lvl 80 travel across the map the most ive paid is like 4s 40c. If your reviving to a waypoint right near you you wont pay more then 5s for 1 death. Don’t exaggerate.

If you have issues with your dailies, do them in low lvl zones, there is no need to do the daily in any zone higher then lvl 1-15

Ive been through orr on my warrior and ele. Granted the ele was significantly harder, due to me being used to playing plate characters, but using the correct utility spells and taking the time to go AROUND groups instead of through them, i don’t die very often. If i do, its because at least 4-5 mobs have pulled me towards them consecutively (you can dodge to evade these pulls)

Minos.5168:

One death plus waypoint cost can amount to 5 silver.

It’s absurd, really.

I never even had to consider repair costs in WoW, but here they’re thrown in my face.

Also, have any of you been to Orr where there’s Risen every 5 feet and they respawn every 30 seconds?

Have you been to Orr? you can make 2 gold an hour easy there.

If you spend more on repair costs than you get from playing the game you’re doing something wrong.o________o

Repair costs suck in dungeons, but are minor in general play, IMO.

Waypoint costs annoy me far, far more because I’d like to zip around to any placer I fancy.

I don’t know if there are levels of damaged or if it’s just perfect, damaged, broken…but it takes a long time for damaged armor to become broken. I let all my armor stay damaged until something finally broke just to get the hint achievement and it took at least 5+ deaths without repair to break something. I don’t think you need to repair everytime you die. Also, have you gotten zero repair canisters from the BLCs? I’ve never bought a single key but I have probably 8-10 repair canisters in my bank waiting for use at 80.