Guild Wars 2

IndigoSundown.5419:

Berserker warriors were only the go-to class in the PvE meta during the heyday of CoF1. Nowadays, while one warrior is a good addition to a party, multiples bring less efficiency than bringing a mix of professions, including, possibly, a sword ranger.

Wrong. 5 Warriors can crush every single dungeon faster than any combo of classes. You must have never been in a group with 5 good warriors fully geared. Champs go down like vets, and Legendaries go down like champs or faster. In PvP, Warriors own that too. Nothing can burst faster while negating dmg at the same time. Warriors destroy all. I however will never run berzerker, because people who do, don’t understand why it’s a waste of stats, and that you do not pull any more damage then if you correctly setup your stats and traits the correct way instead of going gimmick.

@IndigoSundown

EXACTLY. It’s the game engine mechanics / AI of the mobs that need to be changed in order for anything besides zerk to be viable for PvE.

As long as everything is slow attacking, predictable, and heavy-hitting, toughness is useless. As long as the invulnerability window is as lenient as it is for dodges, it’s pointless to try to mitigate damage taken with any attributes on your gear and especially vitality. If you’re not dodging at the right time, how is having more HP going to benefit you? You’re dead either way if you can’t learn a boss’s mechanics and evade at the right time.

Purple Miku.7032:

@IndigoSundown

EXACTLY. It’s the game engine mechanics / AI of the mobs that need to be changed in order for anything besides zerk to be viable for PvE.

As long as everything is slow attacking, predictable, and heavy-hitting, toughness is useless. As long as the invulnerability window is as lenient as it is for dodges, it’s pointless to try to mitigate damage taken with any attributes on your gear and especially vitality. If you’re not dodging at the right time, how is having more HP going to benefit you? You’re dead either way if you can’t learn a boss’s mechanics and evade at the right time.

More HP could benefit you by having traits in the vitality line that give more dmg based on vitality than if you just load your traits and armor into the power prec crit line.. This is the only way for the developers to stop people from only running gimmicks like full zerker. Been saying this for almost a year.

Bevillian.1260:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Berserker warriors were only the go-to class in the PvE meta during the heyday of CoF1. Nowadays, while one warrior is a good addition to a party, multiples bring less efficiency than bringing a mix of professions, including, possibly, a sword ranger.

Wrong. 5 Warriors can crush every single dungeon faster than any combo of classes. You must have never been in a group with 5 good warriors fully geared. Champs go down like vets, and Legendaries go down like champs or faster. In PvP, Warriors own that too. Nothing can burst faster while negating dmg at the same time. Warriors destroy all. I however will never run berzerker, because people who do, don’t understand why it’s a waste of stats, and that you do not pull any more damage then if you correctly setup your stats and traits the correct way instead of going gimmick.

No, you’re wrong lol. It’s highly inefficient to run a group with more than 2 warriors on the team as opposed to mixing it up with a properly equipped & traited ranger, at least one ele, a thief/guard/mesmer depending on what dungeon path is being done. Warriors don’t reflect and in many circumstances it’s what deals the very most damage. Also stacking with 5 warriors with no blinds or reflects? Rofl, hell no.

As for berserker being a “waste of stats”, if you’re referring to the mix-match of 3 pieces of assassin’s from Nike’s guide, he even states that with the upcoming changes to critical damage he suggests against making an ascended set with assassin’s. We don’t know whether or not it will be optimal post-changes.

Purple Miku.7032:

Bevillian.1260:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Berserker warriors were only the go-to class in the PvE meta during the heyday of CoF1. Nowadays, while one warrior is a good addition to a party, multiples bring less efficiency than bringing a mix of professions, including, possibly, a sword ranger.

Wrong. 5 Warriors can crush every single dungeon faster than any combo of classes. You must have never been in a group with 5 good warriors fully geared. Champs go down like vets, and Legendaries go down like champs or faster. In PvP, Warriors own that too. Nothing can burst faster while negating dmg at the same time. Warriors destroy all. I however will never run berzerker, because people who do, don’t understand why it’s a waste of stats, and that you do not pull any more damage then if you correctly setup your stats and traits the correct way instead of going gimmick.

No, you’re wrong lol. It’s highly inefficient to run a group with more than 2 warriors on the team as opposed to mixing it up with a properly equipped & traited ranger, at least one ele, a thief/guard/mesmer depending on what dungeon path is being done. Warriors don’t reflect and in many circumstances it’s what deals the very most damage. Also stacking with 5 warriors with no blinds or reflects? Rofl, hell no.

As for berserker being a “waste of stats”, if you’re referring to the mix-match of 3 pieces of assassin’s from Nike’s guide, he even states that with the upcoming changes to critical damage he suggests against making an ascended set with assassin’s. We don’t know whether or not it will be optimal post-changes.

No, you are wrong. It is not highly inefficient to run 5 warriors. With proper banner setup and placement, with 5 warbanners, 5 frenzies. I’m sorry, you are wrong, nothing can out damage that in the same amount of time. You simply would not disagree if you had ever been in a proper 5 warrior group, and anyone who has will back that up. Anyone who hasn’t will echo your sentiment exactly. I wasn’t referring to anything from anyones guide. I was referring to math and probability of critting and contrasting that with full zerker.

You can go 20% less critical since there is a boon called fury. With proper Warrior setup you will always have that boon up when fighting, giving you the same amount of crit as the base crit of zerker. Those extra stats that are not precision, can be placed into any other line with zero damage reduction. This is what people fail to realize about zerker. The only difference between zerk and valkyrie is the precision, which can be made up with a boon, giving you the same chance to crit, giving you the exact same damage output just as frequently.

We’re evidently talking about different things. You’re more than likely talking about optimizing a Cof p1 speedrun or something, whereas I’m thinking FotM and Arah as first choice examples. It completely depends on what you’re doing.

If you honestly think 5 warriors would be more efficient in a speedrun for a full run of FotM or Arah, you have no idea what you’re talking about. If you’re talking about something incredibly trivial like Cof, sure. You STILL lose out on a crap ton of DPS without 1 ranger on the team (provides the team a 70% chance to deal 10% more damage), but whatever.

That’s all I’m going to post in response to you on this.

I am quite aware of the topic. I am talking about in general in any dungeon or instance since that’s the fact. FotM and Arah are no different in any way. I know that they are more efficient in FotM and Arah because I’ve ran both of those as well with that setup and it’s amazing. Again, this sentiment from you is coming because you have never seen it work correctly but the fact still remains. You do not lose out on DPS without a ranger either.. At all.. that’s probably the funniest thing I’ve seen all day.

this y we don’t all play berserk war
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Condition-damage-miss-understood/first#post3739882

haviz.1340:

tigirius.9014:

I don’t think Ferocity will change anything either. There’s still the weakness of condition damage, the lack of any usefulness in CC, and healing is a total joke so until they improve the rest of those mechanics especially in boss/champion fights the rest will simply be a memory of a time where there was balanced PVE combat and more than 1 role.

Useless CC. In the meantime, pvp-ers are complaining about condies spam, cc spam and bunker meta.

PvP and PvE are completely different worlds, and it’s madness to try and balance the two in the same way.

“Bad guys” (Thief) are funnier and more interest than “good guys”

Arantheal.7396:

Latinkuro.9420:

the answer is simple really.
warrior, guardian, ele, mesmer anything one of the other useless classes can do one of these main classes can do it better.

until a.net decides to make the others either part of the meta or changes the meta nothing will change .

So you need 3 guys to do the job of one engineer?
Healing, condi-cleaning, dps and control. Not even is the engineer the most versatile class in the game, he can easily specify himself for even outperforming any part you perceive as the actual “meta”. And that can be done by many classes, including those you failed to understand

The group I run dungeons and lvl 49 fractals with:
Me, our enginner – group-heal / nades dps (and therefore dps-groupsupport) / control
1 ranger – pet-tank and dps / control
1 ele – dps / additional heal if needed
1 mesmer – dps / control
1 necromancer – condition-mancer

Sometimes one of our group got no time, so we must use the lfg-tool for dungeons (never would I run a fractal with someone who’s not in my ts-channel), and everytime we get a warri or guardian I really feel sorry for them. Yes, it sometimes proved as false prejudice since we found someone who actually can play his class, but often enough we got a complete kitten with us who kisses the ground at nearly every boss (or even sometimes on the way to them). And no, I don’t feel superior to people who just started the game and lack the training, but those who fail constantly while running around with 11k achievement-points and a fency legendary on their back which served no purpose but to polish the ground.

A clear sign for a rally-bot: a warri who joins our group from the lfg-tool and tries to kick our ranger. happened yesterday…

I know what you are talking about polishing the ground, and I have been like your friend where a pug comes into a premade group and tries to kick me! I swear some people are so RUDE! Still best run ever was 5 Guards running HotW p1. Super fast easy and fun, plus everyone was really polite.

Warrior is boring and a cheese class. It’s like making an all-star roster in a sports video game with all the best players from the sport. It just isn’t fun. That’s why. If you want a challenge, play an elementalist or a non-condi-cheese engineer. Better yet, if you want a challenge, don’t play condi builds at all. Only just realized that ele and guardian are literally the only two classes that don’t have cheesy condition builds.

Sizer.5632:

Because eles have so much cooler animations than wars.

This. Every mechanical ‘fix’ ANet has made has caused the elementalist to worsen. At this point, it’s the most screwed up class I have ever seen in any game… ever. And the developers really haven’t shown (yet) that they have learned anything that would help them fix the class in future updates.

And yet, even as my full tank/condition elementalist repeatedly dies to anything that sneezes on him, and seems to deal the same damage as a level 1 pink moa, it just looks and feels awesomely fun to play, and ANets inability to get its crap together with the stat system won’t change that.

medohgeuh.4650:

Please, the only reason anyone wants a mesmer is for a few utility skills. Outside of that, we’re just as unwanted as the rest of the classes.

Hmmm you might have a point there
I’m usually happy to see a mesmer in my party but I shudder when they fail to use portal at CoF or CoE, I’m like why are you even here if you’re not gonna do the thing we expect you to do huh ?

I’ve been with mesmers that don’t even pull the mobs to position them, they do not use time warp and they refuse to use SoI to copy boons ! WTF

Same goes for thief, when they expect other classes to take care of the controller in CoF, I mean these are the easy dungeons right? and that is why we brought yah ! omfg !

Bevillian.1260:

I am quite aware of the topic. I am talking about in general in any dungeon or instance since that’s the fact. FotM and Arah are no different in any way. I know that they are more efficient in FotM and Arah because I’ve ran both of those as well with that setup and it’s amazing. Again, this sentiment from you is coming because you have never seen it work correctly but the fact still remains. You do not lose out on DPS without a ranger either.. At all.. that’s probably the funniest thing I’ve seen all day.

I don’t know man, have you seen record runs of any dungeon? I think they didn’t utilize more than 2 warriors, let alone 5.

Let’s be practical here. This just shows why the WARRIOR needs to be toned down. People defending they aren’t op, they either have a warrior character, or think other class are underpowered.

WilliCalifornia.1837:

Let’s be practical here. This just shows why the WARRIOR needs to be toned down. People defending they aren’t op, they either have a warrior character, or think other class are underpowered.

I main a warrior and let me tell yah a little secret.
the reason warrior is preferred is not because it is the highest damage dealer in the game, it just so happens that warriors have high enough damage that can be pulled off a lot easier than others, and we do not die as easily.

I’m now playing an elementalist and the crap I pull of with my elementalist is a lot crazier than what I can pull with my warrior, I just have to be a bit more aware of my surroundings and chain skills that is all.

From my perspective when I’m on my elementalist I’m grinning and saying to myself, and they call us warriors OP, yeah right !

Latinkuro.9420:

WilliCalifornia.1837:

Let’s be practical here. This just shows why the WARRIOR needs to be toned down. People defending they aren’t op, they either have a warrior character, or think other class are underpowered.

I main a warrior and let me tell yah a little secret.
the reason warrior is preferred is not because it is the highest damage dealer in the game, it just so happens that warriors have high enough damage that can be pulled off a lot easier than others, and we do not die as easily.

I’m now playing an elementalist and the crap I pull of with my elementalist is a lot crazier than what I can pull with my warrior, I just have to be a bit more aware of my surroundings and chain skills that is all.

From my perspective when I’m on my elementalist I’m grinning and saying to myself, and they call us warriors OP, yeah right !

Your ele is a lot crazier yes, but also lowest hp and armor class in the game. Low tier in pvp too. Compare that to a warrior?. Who is crazier now?

Like I said before, people either defending warrior because they have a warrior character (Your main warrior lols) or think other class are underpowered.

you’re not getting it mate.

warrior is easier to play and easier to pull of big numbers, high HP base, high defense, great utility.

elementalist, is by no means UP mate, just a bit harder to pull off, low HP base, low defense, awesome utility.

I’m not defending my warrior I don’t have to
I’m telling you, you have misconceptions about what is and what is not.

We all know, ele needed a buff. Ele really excels in dungeons and wvw zerg, even then Warrior is still the superior class. When the Dev asked for a list, most people voted for ele as only second to ranger. Now i’m not saying this class or other class are up, what I meant was, other people might think ele is underpowered.
Now I understand you don’t want the warrior class to be tone down, because you main one. See what I mean, read my previous post.

I don’t want it tone down because of misconceptions about it
is it the most powerful class in the game PVE wise ? yes well right beside guardian of course.
but not because of the misconceptualized reasons and myths people tend to think of in these forums.

I was just as mad and vocal when there was talk about nerfing my beloved RTL (RIP)

I was just as mad when backstab was nerfd.

I was however not mad when they nerfd stealth
and I actually think they still haven’t done enough about that B.S mechanic

objective thinking>myth and rumors.

Bevillian.1260:

I am quite aware of the topic. I am talking about in general in any dungeon or instance since that’s the fact. FotM and Arah are no different in any way. I know that they are more efficient in FotM and Arah because I’ve ran both of those as well with that setup and it’s amazing. Again, this sentiment from you is coming because you have never seen it work correctly but the fact still remains. You do not lose out on DPS without a ranger either.. At all.. that’s probably the funniest thing I’ve seen all day.

Where’s your 5-warrior world record speedrun on ANY dungeon then?

You might want to check your math since something is seriously missing there.

They just need to make other builds more viable. I know they want to nerf the berserker meta and be my guest anet but the changes to crit damage are an extremely poor way to do that from what I can see. What they need to do is first fix the condition cap so condition builds can be more viable. The other thing is make cc builds more viable by making fights that reward players by interrupting enemy skills and punishing them if they don’t. Like high level fractals, perhaps this is in the future from level 50-60 where all the boss fights in fractals have much more interesting and difficult mechanics at higher levels. One way to make cc builds viable here is to remove the 5-10 stacks of defiant before the enemy is about to cast the skill, then when they do, they can be interrupted by it making a crucial difference for the rest of the fight. Punish the players when they can’t execute that. Right now, still so many, not all, but many fights are just tank and spank(without the tank).

WilliCalifornia.1837:

Latinkuro.9420:

WilliCalifornia.1837:

Let’s be practical here. This just shows why the WARRIOR needs to be toned down. People defending they aren’t op, they either have a warrior character, or think other class are underpowered.

I main a warrior and let me tell yah a little secret.
the reason warrior is preferred is not because it is the highest damage dealer in the game, it just so happens that warriors have high enough damage that can be pulled off a lot easier than others, and we do not die as easily.

I’m now playing an elementalist and the crap I pull of with my elementalist is a lot crazier than what I can pull with my warrior, I just have to be a bit more aware of my surroundings and chain skills that is all.

From my perspective when I’m on my elementalist I’m grinning and saying to myself, and they call us warriors OP, yeah right !

Your ele is a lot crazier yes, but also lowest hp and armor class in the game. Low tier in pvp too. Compare that to a warrior?. Who is crazier now?

Like I said before, people either defending warrior because they have a warrior character (Your main warrior lols) or think other class are underpowered.

you need to learn before talking, i main thief but i also play elementalist and warrior.
people prefer warrior in dungeon group is not because it has the best damage nor it has the best utilities not nor it is the tankiest. its only because warrior is the best PUG class. the only class that has itself good protected and can do decent damage, which means most noob friendly, a noob warrior will do better then a noob anything. while a pro anything can do better then a pro warrior at anything, i assume. my thief can literally melee volcano shaman, while my warrior can only rifle it and my ele kill mobs in second, i enjoy how fast they melt.

i don’t play warrior in pve anymore, just because it doesnt do a lot of damage unlike my thief or elementalist, zerg farming with a warrior is just hell, mobs die before you reach them, and it can not carry your group through dungeons, all support it has is banner.

Latinkuro.9420:

I don’t want it tone down because of misconceptions about it
is it the most powerful class in the game PVE wise ? yes well right beside guardian of course.

Neither warriors nor guardians are the most powerful profession in the game, PvE wise.
Eles are, by a HUGE amount.
The thing that needs to be (or at least should be) changed is the current risk vs. reward situation.
Warriors get medium to high reward for pretty much zero skill requirement.
Eles get very high reward for very high skill requirement.
Thieves get medium to high reward for high skill requirement or (S/P) medium reward for low skill requirement.

However, I’d like to +1 haviz.1340

You won’t see more than 2 warriors used in any real speedrun (the ones that use 3 warriors are flat out bad or old). Doing a speedrun with more than 2 warriors, not to mention 5, would result in horrible results.

I also have a Warrior (leveled this one up back in the day when you could farm COF P1 and back then you went with 4 warriors and 1 mesmer or just 5 warriors).

My first character was actually a thief, and I still love to play my thief a lot more, but while playing my thief I also notice how warriors feel a bit over the top.
Just because I like to play diffirent professions I would love to see all the other professions come to the same level as a warrior or the warrior comes down the same level as the other professions, for me either way would be perfect.

It does feel like the warrior has it all , can deal a lot of damage, doesn’t feel squishy at all, can heal with shouts, even ignore damage for 4 seconds and the best part is speed, while exploring, leveling or just dungeon runs for me speed is everything, I always liked the characters with a speed boost. Just because of the lack of a decent speed boost on mesmer I haven’t leveled one yet.

Tldr; Warrior stands out a bit more compared to other professions, would love to see all professions balanced.

If I had to go looking for flaws in my warrior, I think it would be that his defense options are fairly one dimensional. He has his government issued dodges, higher defense, and very good HP regeneration options. These tend to be suitable for the majority of PVE content, but when they’re not there’s not a lot he can do aside from putting on thicker defense. There is definitely a ‘limit’ to my warrior where there’s nothing that I can really do to stop incoming damage beyond hoping that my team has some support.

If I was going to compare that to my thief, I would state that my thief has a lot of tricks that help him evade damage entirely. If played well my thief has the potential mitigate more damage than my warrior by simply not getting hit at all.

However, a lot of PVE enemies seem to be aware of this and will often simply be IMMUNE to things my thief can do which puts holes in his defense and makes him quite prone to their rampaging hulk-ness. PVE enemies don’t tend to focus on the defense capabilities of my warrior to the same degree, so my warrior winds up being the easier of the two to play in PVE.

In PVP on the other hand, my thief tends to come out on top and is capable of taking down multiple opponents at once, while my warrior can very clearly handle a certain amount of punishment, and then dies.

While I wouldn’t say that my warrior doesn’t require skill, I do tend to think of him as more of an algebra problem when facing opponents. Is damage+mitigation > enemy.damage+enem.mitigation? If yes = win, if no = lose. On my thief it’s more along the lines of “man, I better dodge this attack or I am going to be gooey thief-paste”. My Warrior has many tactics that can help put the algebra in his favor, while my thief has many tactics that can help him not become gooey thief-paste. While they both CAN be played skillfully and performance is greatly improved for doing so, my warrior is also able to survive to some degree by being mindless while my thief would be instantly murdered for such antics. As many enemies do not require a lot of finesse to defeat, warrior is allowed to be mindless quite often.

In summary; warrior is not stupid, but stupid players can play warrior.

Warkupo.1025:

If I had to go looking for flaws in my warrior, I think it would be that his defense options are fairly one dimensional. He has his government issued dodges, higher defense, and very good HP regeneration options. These tend to be suitable for the majority of PVE content, but when they’re not there’s not a lot he can do aside from putting on thicker defense. There is definitely a ‘limit’ to my warrior where there’s nothing that I can really do to stop incoming damage beyond hoping that my team has some support.

If I was going to compare that to my thief, I would state that my thief has a lot of tricks that help him evade damage entirely. If played well my thief has the potential mitigate more damage than my warrior by simply not getting hit at all.

However, a lot of PVE enemies seem to be aware of this and will often simply be IMMUNE to things my thief can do which puts holes in his defense and makes him quite prone to their rampaging hulk-ness. PVE enemies don’t tend to focus on the defense capabilities of my warrior to the same degree, so my warrior winds up being the easier of the two to play in PVE.

In PVP on the other hand, my thief tends to come out on top and is capable of taking down multiple opponents at once, while my warrior can very clearly handle a certain amount of punishment, and then dies.

While I wouldn’t say that my warrior doesn’t require skill, I do tend to think of him as more of an algebra problem when facing opponents. Is damage+mitigation > enemy.damage+enem.mitigation? If yes = win, if no = lose. On my thief it’s more along the lines of “man, I better dodge this attack or I am going to be gooey thief-paste”. My Warrior has many tactics that can help put the algebra in his favor, while my thief has many tactics that can help him not become gooey thief-paste. While they both CAN be played skillfully and performance is greatly improved for doing so, my warrior is also able to survive to some degree by being mindless while my thief would be instantly murdered for such antics. As many enemies do not require a lot of finesse to defeat, warrior is allowed to be mindless quite often.

In summary; warrior is not stupid, but stupid players can play warrior.

Very nice review and comparison, lol.

It’s nice to see a post looking at things from multiple different standpoints.

Anicetus.1253:

Warriors get medium to high reward for pretty much zero skill requirement.
Eles get very high reward for very high skill requirement.

Staff ele is now the best dps build and is better than S/D. Which is just to spam lava font and meteor shower.

Staff ele get very high reward for pretty much zero skill requirement.

I think a lot of it is the attitude a lot of warriors have(not all of them), but in general I have been very put off by them. It’s one of the reasons I haven’t even tried one. Example: Warrior gets downed in the middle of a boss fight or even at the end and acts like the rest of the party can’t finish the fight without them.

Pecause people just want to do paths the fastest way possible.So inviting other classes where the run will go 1 – 5m slower..is a no-no.Blame the people,not the class.

Just recollecting why I only PvP now.

There has to be a marriage between skill/reward. You should get higher rewards only if you have higher skill. Since rewards are the primary reason for playing, fun is the second reason. Zerker warriors make everything boring. But I have to play them otherwise I’m wasting my time with other classes.

In pretty much every MMORPG there are going to be people who may or may not be very experienced telling you which class and builds to bring to various content. I’ve certainly had to tell people to swap a trait or skill out here and there, albeit less so in GW2 than in other games. It’s just a reality that in these team oriented games, complementary specs work best and some specs are mandatory for certain bits of content. The morale is to be a little empathetic, think within the “team concept” and avoid bringing exactly what you want to bring at all times(selfish).

That said, ‘zerker warriors are not, not, not the end all/be all to GW2 PvE. Sometimes, they’re a good choice, other times, not so much. So what you have here is people who think they know what’s best but in fact they probably do not.

I have a zerk war at cap and one in route, probably play them the least. Kind of have to be in the mood for easy feel of this class.

Every other class has the feel of actually having to work to get things done. I have to pay attention more I guess.

When Anet said they were getting rid of the Trinity and that every class could perform that role, I thought the that the roles would still be needed for encounters, but different classes would take them on.
Eg: Someone has to be the tank. Someone has to be dps. Someone has to be the healer. So a thief could tank. A necro could tank. A engie could tank. Doesn’t matter who, but you still needed one. Same goes for the other roles. This I thought would open up the pool for healers and tanks, of which many games suffer because 1. Those roles are dedicated to smaller number of classes. 2. Probably have a lower number overall playing those roles because they are only really needed in designed group content. Open world, you probably want to be a dps.

Instead what we got is that the only one role needed to be filled, DEEPS. The condition cap doesn’t help, so what’s left and probably better optimized, Zerks.

5 zerks =less time doing anything and everything.
5 tanks= can probably do content but…lol
5 condi=can probably do content but…lol
5 healers=can probably do content but…lol

Just the way the game is made. I personally like playing all roles in the trinity. Find them fun at different times. Kind of made me sad that you would totally throw out two playstyles to support just one.

Pvp here is a different beast though. 1v1 it all works if you can get good with it.

Side note: I prefer the gw hex/enchantment/condition/attribute/interupt system over the boon/condition/trait system here.

Also I think I would have rather have had dual system here. dps/healers. Have it be more like GW as you could get away with not having any tanks at all.

I also think having to rely on other players for certain things just provides a better experience in group play. If every class here had something special that they did to provide to the group I’d even be happy.

Sadly all we got was the guardian w/blocks and reflects, Mesmers with portals/reflects/time warps, thieves w/ stealth and maybe ele’s with auras. Everyone hands out the same boons, the same conditions (cept guard) and dps.

Naetell.3815:

It’s only viable because the game is ridiculously easy.
I’ve solo’d CM P3 on my guard naked and traitless, with just my exotic weapons.
So, having no traits or gear other than some exotic weapons is viable.
However, it’s not a good way to play. You wouldn’t ever recommend anyone to play like that.
It becomes a question of efficiency, and zerker is the more efficient way to play in PvE.

Personally, I’ve played DPS in WoW for years. Then I discovered healing, and I loved my priest to death.
It saddens me too I can’t heal in this game.
But the truth is that the game just wasn’t made to accomodate for all playstyles. It’s made to accomodate just one in its current state.

If you want build variety in GW2, go to PvP. Zerker sucks there, and while it’s far from a great place to be for build variety, it’s infinitely better than the current state of PvE in the game.

All I got out of this was a lot of self-boasting which isn’t reflective of how the game actually is.

To the question posed in the title I answer:

Because berserker Guardians and Elementalists are better and more generally useful everywhere you’d ever consider using a berserker Warrior.

medohgeuh.4650:

All I got out of this was a lot of self-boasting which isn’t reflective of how the game actually is.

That would be assuming it’s any kind of achievement to do this. It’s not. I don’t consider myself a good player. Anyone could do this.
Would it have suited you better had I at the same time said I can’t solo Lupi? A feat many other players can manage.

I PUG every now and then. Sometimes I bring my zerk warrior, sometimes my cleric guard. Either way, if I’m in a group and they kick some poor guy who joined because he isn’t a) a warrior/guard or b) isn’t wearing zerk gear, I just leave the group, form up with the guy they kicked, and then find 3 normal players who actually understand that in GW2, any class and stat set-up will get you through any dungeon. Maybe not the absolute fastest, but certainly successfully and without wipes.

There’s no place for snobs in this game and I refuse to play with them personally.

I remember getting kicked out of a FoTM10 group because I didn’t have an Ascended backpiece (this was before Ascended armor/weapons). I had everything else BiS except the backpiece which was exotic. We are running level TEN, which is wtfez. Since I wasn’t absolutely BiS, I was booted. Couldn’t believe it. I was able to form a full group and start FoTM10, while those same 3 guys were still standing outside the entrance, “LFM exp players”-ing. Idiots…

SkylightMoon.1980:

They just need to make other builds more viable. I know they want to nerf the berserker meta and be my guest anet but the changes to crit damage are an extremely poor way to do that from what I can see. What they need to do is first fix the condition cap so condition builds can be more viable. The other thing is make cc builds more viable by making fights that reward players by interrupting enemy skills and punishing them if they don’t. Like high level fractals, perhaps this is in the future from level 50-60 where all the boss fights in fractals have much more interesting and difficult mechanics at higher levels. One way to make cc builds viable here is to remove the 5-10 stacks of defiant before the enemy is about to cast the skill, then when they do, they can be interrupted by it making a crucial difference for the rest of the fight. Punish the players when they can’t execute that. Right now, still so many, not all, but many fights are just tank and spank(without the tank).

The nerf won’t change the meta one bit, and they’ve said so on record as well. But it is a first step in a long series of planned changes to increase build variety.

“Why don’t we all play warrior?”

Because I don’t necessarily feel like playing one. Quite that simple.

I have one of each class (2 of some) and play what I feel like playing, how I feel like playing it. Honestly, to hell with the meta.

Don’t let others dictate your play. Play how you want, because that’s how you enjoy playing. If you’re a ranger with a bear, a warrior with a greatsword, or a mesmer with a scepter, it doesn’t matter what others have to say as long as you are enjoying yourself.

My view on berserker gear is written in my other thread. ^^

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/escape/DPS-Tests-need-to-Stop

As for the question “Why don’t we all play warrior?”

There is only one reason why so many people are playing berserker warrior in the fire place: Currently the mobs are very very bad at killing players with berserker gear.

It is true. Mobs suck at killing berserkers. If you do not trust me, go into WvW and try to follow your zerg in berserker. You most likely will be dead in that very first engagement. You won’t be there for the second, third and fourth engagements. :P

The mobs needs to effectively kill off berserker players. Then the norm of gear usage will be somewhere between berserker and tanky. That’s how it should be.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

“Why don’t we all play warrior?”

Because I don’t necessarily feel like playing one. Quite that simple.

I have one of each class (2 of some) and play what I feel like playing, how I feel like playing it. Honestly, to hell with the meta.

Don’t let others dictate your play. Play how you want, because that’s how you enjoy playing. If you’re a ranger with a bear, a warrior with a greatsword, or a mesmer with a scepter, it doesn’t matter what others have to say as long as you are enjoying yourself.

Would you extend that argument to players who like to gank, grief, scam, cheat, bot too?
Ultimately, aren’t they too playing the game how they want it and how they’re having fun?

CHIPS.6018:

My view on berserker gear is written in my other thread. ^^

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/escape/DPS-Tests-need-to-Stop

As for the question “Why don’t we all play warrior?”

There is only one reason why so many people are playing berserker warrior in the fire place: Currently the mobs are very very bad at killing players with berserker gear.

It is true. Mobs suck at killing berserkers. If you do not trust me, go into WvW and try to follow your zerg in berserker. You most likely will be dead in that very first engagement. You won’t be there for the second, third and fourth engagements. :P

The mobs needs to effectively kill off berserker players. Then the norm of gear usage will be somewhere between berserker and tanky. That’s how it should be.

Then the meta will be someting like 4 pieces PvT, everything else zerker.
The problem wouldn’t be solved at all.

CHIPS.6018:

It is true. Mobs suck at killing berserkers. If you do not trust me, go into WvW and try to follow your zerg in berserker. You most likely will be dead in that very first engagement. You won’t be there for the second, third and fourth engagements. :P

Unless you’re a warrior

Naetell.3815:

CHIPS.6018:

My view on berserker gear is written in my other thread. ^^

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/escape/DPS-Tests-need-to-Stop

As for the question “Why don’t we all play warrior?”

There is only one reason why so many people are playing berserker warrior in the fire place: Currently the mobs are very very bad at killing players with berserker gear.

It is true. Mobs suck at killing berserkers. If you do not trust me, go into WvW and try to follow your zerg in berserker. You most likely will be dead in that very first engagement. You won’t be there for the second, third and fourth engagements. :P

The mobs needs to effectively kill off berserker players. Then the norm of gear usage will be somewhere between berserker and tanky. That’s how it should be.

Then the meta will be someting like 4 pieces PvT, everything else zerker.
The problem wouldn’t be solved at all.

The PVT gear may be the most popular. But the game will be very different. Now all gear types (Berserker, Hybrid, Tanky) have their uses. The players have also become better players because the mobs are smarter.

CHIPS.6018:

The PVT gear may be the most popular. But the game will be very different. Now all gear types (Berserker, Hybrid, Tanky) have their uses. The players have also become better players because the mobs are smarter.

There are more than 3 types of gear in the game. But it’s a start.

Naetell.3815:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

“Why don’t we all play warrior?”

Because I don’t necessarily feel like playing one. Quite that simple.

I have one of each class (2 of some) and play what I feel like playing, how I feel like playing it. Honestly, to hell with the meta.

Don’t let others dictate your play. Play how you want, because that’s how you enjoy playing. If you’re a ranger with a bear, a warrior with a greatsword, or a mesmer with a scepter, it doesn’t matter what others have to say as long as you are enjoying yourself.

Would you extend that argument to players who like to gank, grief, scam, cheat, bot too?
Ultimately, aren’t they too playing the game how they want it and how they’re having fun?

Do I extend it to things against the user agreement or the rules set forth in general? Not at all. Bottting, scamming, abuse, and exploiting are all against the agreed terms. Such things should be reported, and the participants dealt with accordingly. Obviously there are degrees, and each is taken on a case by case basis, but that it neither here nor there for the topic of this conversation.

Griefing… depends on what you’re looking at here. As in verbally abusing someone in chat? Nope, ban em. It’s a breach of contract. Harassing someone repeatedly? Again, beach of contract, ban ‘em. On the other hand, grabbing a group of friends and repeatedly blocking people from completing…say… the EB jumping puzzle? There isn’t anything against that. Some would consider it a kitten move, but hey, to each their own…

Ganking.. again, some people would consider this a kitten move, but is this not pretty much typical for pvp play in pretty much any game? Others would simply call it a valid tactic. I mean, is this not exactly what the WvW zergs do to smaller groups of players they come across? Perhaps not all members of the zerg, but I’ve played enough wvw to have seen first hand a zerg roll over many a 3-4 man roam team that was trying to avoid them. The same can be seen in GW1 team arenas, in GW1 HoH, in the current pvp hot joins – organized teams will focus a single player and spike them down. Is that not exactly what ganking is – ie, the practice of a group to gang up on one or more opposing foes in such a manner as to negate any means of defending themself. WvW also illustates the typical higher level destroys lower level player type of ganking as well. Both are considered valid game play by the given rules.

Now, given the very specific example of higher level ganking lower level… intentionally hounding them. Ie, avoiding all other fights, hunting them across the map, etc etc. Then it could be considered bordering on harassment, which strays into the breach of contract and potential ban zone. It would be something a dev would have to determine whether is was harassment or not.

Edit: In short, if their ‘fun’ is considered acceptable by those that makes the rules (the devs) and is not a breach of the terms of agreement, then to each their own. Live and let live. I may not necessarily like it or agree, but I don’t have to play with them either.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Naetell.3815:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

“Why don’t we all play warrior?”

Because I don’t necessarily feel like playing one. Quite that simple.

I have one of each class (2 of some) and play what I feel like playing, how I feel like playing it. Honestly, to hell with the meta.

Don’t let others dictate your play. Play how you want, because that’s how you enjoy playing. If you’re a ranger with a bear, a warrior with a greatsword, or a mesmer with a scepter, it doesn’t matter what others have to say as long as you are enjoying yourself.

Would you extend that argument to players who like to gank, grief, scam, cheat, bot too?
Ultimately, aren’t they too playing the game how they want it and how they’re having fun?

Do I extend it to things against the user agreement or the rules set forth in general? Not at all. Bottting, scamming, abuse, and exploiting are all against the agreed terms. Such things should be reported, and the participants dealt with accordingly. Obviously there are degrees, and each is taken on a case by case basis, but that it neither here nor there for the topic of this conversation.

Griefing… depends on what you’re looking at here. As in verbally abusing someone in chat? Nope, ban em. It’s a breach of contract. Harassing someone repeatedly? Again, beach of contract, ban ‘em. On the other hand, grabbing a group of friends and repeatedly blocking people from completing…say… the EB jumping puzzle? There isn’t anything against that. Some would consider it a kitten move, but hey, to each their own…

Ganking.. again, some people would consider this a kitten move, but is this not pretty much typical for pvp play in pretty much any game? Others would simply call it a valid tactic. I mean, is this not exactly what the WvW zergs do to smaller groups of players they come across? Perhaps not all members of the zerg, but I’ve played enough wvw to have seen first hand a zerg roll over many a 3-4 man roam team that was trying to avoid them. The same can be seen in GW1 team arenas, in GW1 HoH, in the current pvp hot joins – organized teams will focus a single player and spike them down. Is that not exactly what ganking is – ie, the practice of a group to gang up on one or more opposing foes in such a manner as to negate any means of defending themself. WvW also illustates the typical higher level destroys lower level player type of ganking as well. Both are considered valid game play by the given rules.

Now, given the very specific example of higher level ganking lower level… intentionally hounding them. Ie, avoiding all other fights, hunting them across the map, etc etc. Then it could be considered bordering on harassment, which strays into the breach of contract and potential ban zone. It would be something a dev would have to determine whether is was harassment or not.

Edit: In short, if their ‘fun’ is considered acceptable by those that makes the rules (the devs) and is not a breach of the terms of agreement, then to each their own. Live and let live. I may not necessarily like it or agree, but I don’t have to play with them either.

Okay, now think about the megaboss fights like Tequatl and 3H Wurm. If I were to organise a group of 40 players intent on failing the fight by bringing gear that cannot possibly deal the required amount of DPS, and then go to servers where they do these events with the only goal of disrupting their attempts. (If my server can’t do it, neither can yours, kind of thing. Yes, this happens.)

Think about the players who boot dungeon sellers from their own instance for no other reason than because they think dungeon selling is ethically wrong.

These players are still playing the game within the borders of the allowed, Anet cannot ban them because it is not a breach of contract. On top of that, they are playing the game the way they want it to.

To boil this argument down to its essence: Do you think it is right to “play as you want” when this takes away the fun from other players? Do you believe it is morally okay to prioritise your fun over theirs?

Bevillian.1260:

5 Warriors can crush every single dungeon faster than any combo of classes

Uh, this is absolutely incorrect. Quad FGS is the fastest clear which requires 2 elementalists. 1 warrior for the banners and 1 thief to deal the highest damage w/improvisation.

The last class could be a warrior, but you’d probably be better off with a guardian or mesmer for the projectile reflection.

Projectile reflection, by the way, is the highest dps in the game, and warriors don’t have a practical means of providing it for the party.

Bevillian.1260:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Berserker warriors were only the go-to class in the PvE meta during the heyday of CoF1. Nowadays, while one warrior is a good addition to a party, multiples bring less efficiency than bringing a mix of professions, including, possibly, a sword ranger.

Wrong. 5 Warriors can crush every single dungeon faster than any combo of classes. You must have never been in a group with 5 good warriors fully geared. Champs go down like vets, and Legendaries go down like champs or faster. In PvP, Warriors own that too. Nothing can burst faster while negating dmg at the same time. Warriors destroy all. I however will never run berzerker, because people who do, don’t understand why it’s a waste of stats, and that you do not pull any more damage then if you correctly setup your stats and traits the correct way instead of going gimmick.

That is incorrect. How many of the dungeon record times are set by five man warrior groups again?

As for not running zerker because it’s a waste of stats…..

@OP, not everyone runs zerk warriors because a) other classes are good/needed and b) not everyone wants to play a warrior.