Guild Wars 2

Hello

First, english is not my native language.

After that, I just found a nice presentation video of something that could change and improve our gaming experience on Gw2 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yasnNVsRwM0

And about the DPS meter, it can bring a lot of drama but it can show how exotic builds are good enough in a PU run

Looks like a 3rd party application which can get you banned.

As far as I’ve heard, DPS meters are bannable.

penelopehannibal.8947:

As far as I’ve heard, DPS meters are bannable.

Who said that?

as far as i know nobody has been banned for using something like this. but i can imagine some people wont be happy when other people can see their dps. especially when it looks like this https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Still-no-mention-of-dungeons/first#post4773430

NoTrigger.8396:

but i can imagine some people wont be happy when other people can see their dps. especially when it looks like this https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Still-no-mention-of-dungeons/first#post4773430

why don’t they just make it so everyone has the exact same dps, that way no one will feel left out

They can do a feature like an option to accept other peolple to show their dps.

DPS meters are horrible and the people who use them should feel bad.

It adds absolutely NOTHING valuable to the actual game experience, but instead changes the gamer to a kittened button pushing monkey that has to slavishly chase the most Über build of the month and grinding for the best DPS gear.

We already have too much of this stupid gameplay-type in the game. Actually enabling it with legal in-game aps would kill the game.

Because in GW2 it is about cooperation not comparison.
Its not the size of the pencil… but how you sign your name.

KGS.9842:

NoTrigger.8396:

but i can imagine some people wont be happy when other people can see their dps. especially when it looks like this https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Still-no-mention-of-dungeons/first#post4773430

why don’t they just make it so everyone has the exact same dps, that way no one will feel left out

really hoping not a troll post….

but i’ll put it into simple terms. It starts where there are two classes against each other. Sure, you can make them deal the same exact dmg, but one is range, the other is melee. Guess who wins? Range, because they’ll do more dmg before the melee gets close. So then you give a tool to melee to get close, or to have more hp, or defense, or something. Well then that seems unfair to range so you give them some escapes or defenses themselves…..etc etc.

In short, perfect balance in an MMO is impossible because of players wanting different playstyles. Meters can be beneficial, yes, but more harm than good comes from them sadly.

Still do not want. There are other threads about this topic.

Yalora Istairiea.6287:

Because in GW2 it is about cooperation not comparison.
Its not the size of the pencil… but how you sign your name.

That so much that !!!

The truth is that if you are measuring the size of the pencil, no matter how you sign your name, the bigger pencil will be bigger.

This game doesn’t give you extra points for style or friendship.

Wethospu.6437:

The truth is that if you are measuring the size of the pencil, no matter how you sign your name, the bigger pencil will be bigger.

This game doesn’t give you extra points for style or friendship.

no, but it also doesn’t hurt to be friendly to other players, they might actually help you.

but about the app, i see no harm in it but would never use it, if DPS is really that important then go ahead.

Wethospu.6437:

The truth is that if you are measuring the size of the pencil, no matter how you sign your name, the bigger pencil will be bigger.

This game doesn’t give you extra points for style or friendship.

Two player with big pencil – tiny resistance aka (zerk)
One not able to sign his name (spending his time on the ground).
One able to sign his name (being usefull).

I will always prefer someone with a lesser pen, if he sign better than the other one (aka a bit more tanky gear & bit less DPS but usually alive & usefull).

You always get points for style & friendship.

Some people wanted fps view, it is coming. And maybe you see dps meter as comparison tool but in the other hand for others it will allow to improve or see their impact in a group (and why not a heal meter ?).
And my thread is not just about the dps meter but in the video we can see golems hit points. It would be nice if we could, in my opinion, know a little more about foe’s statistics

No.
The only people that should have any sort of DPS meter are Developers. The last thing we need is something to further empower elitists and braggarts.

ShinjoNaomi.1896:

No.
The only people that should have any sort of DPS meter are Developers. The last thing we need is something to further empower elitists and braggarts.

Totally agree.

papry.8096:

Wethospu.6437:

The truth is that if you are measuring the size of the pencil, no matter how you sign your name, the bigger pencil will be bigger.

This game doesn’t give you extra points for style or friendship.

Two player with big pencil – tiny resistance aka (zerk)
One not able to sign his name (spending his time on the ground).
One able to sign his name (being usefull).

I will always prefer someone with a lesser pen, if he sign better than the other one (aka a bit more tanky gear & bit less DPS but usually alive & usefull).

You always get points for style & friendship.

What points? Imaginary points?

Then why would you care about a dps meter? You can still get your imaginary points.

Because Anet is afraid that people would feel sad when they realize their clerics gear makes them do half the damage of a properly geared player. The fact is, dps meters are useful but too much of the community refuses to accept the current meta and without people willing to accept optimization they will whine about anything that will make calling them out for being carried easier.

A lot of people dislike DPS meters since it’s an excuse for many players to freak out on others that don’t reach their personally acceptable amount of damage.

Players should be trying to improve their skills, and they should at least have access to DPS meters for that purpose, and there’s a clear benefit to a player’s friends/guildies/mentors being able to look at their DPS as well so that they can provide better advice.

As long as you’re not calling out random PUGs over their parses or discussing parses in /s or map chat, I don’t see how running a DPS meter can make you a worse person or hurt anyone else’s play.

But I don’t work for ANet, and I believe their stance on the matter is a lot less positive than mine.

Tell him to use it for the Overwolf App chalenge .

But i really wonder …
If they are going to pay 15k dollars in orders to create ’’official’’ addoons , what will happen in the future for those that are using ’’unofficials’’ ones ?
:PPP

We should have a DPS meter in-game just to show all those elitist meta PuG Warrior scrubs just how bad their DPS really is compared to most other classes. The irony of this, is that it tends to be this group of players in particular that want something like this to begin with. They’d be tripping themselves up. It’d be funny.

Other than that, as others have mentioned, DPS Meters are a bad idea and should be avoided like the plague. They discourage friendliness , accessibility, and co-operation, and encourage negative playstyles, limit build creativity and originality, and train players in all the wrong things when it comes to actually learning the game and becoming good at it.

Heck, the event system can’t even accurately reward a player for their actual contribution or participation to the success of an event, so a DPS meter would be a disaster when it came truly showing exactly who is good at the game and who isn’t, as they don’t take enough of everything else into consideration.

KotCR.6024:

Other than that, as others have mentioned, DPS Meters are a bad idea and should be avoided like the plague. They discourage friendliness , accessibility, and co-operation, and encourage negative playstyles, limit build creativity and originality, and train players in all the wrong things when it comes to actually learning the game and becoming good at it.

Please, enlighten me as to how DPS meters do any of these things.

Are you telling me that anyone with a DPS meter instantly turns into someone who thinks that other players’s respective worths are defined solely by the holy numberz? Because funnily enough, that’s a load of horse crap.

Facts are facts, they have no intrinsic morality.

They can be used to the benefit of everyone, you know like when someone posted all the facts about crown pavilion and how it scaled so people could more regularly complete it on the gold level.

Or they can be used as backup when telling someone they aren’t pulling their own weight.

Any action is that of the player, not of the facts, facts are just… well facts and being able to view them isn’t something inherently evil, it’s just that some players get carried away with it.

Jerus.4350:

Or they can be used as backup when telling someone they aren’t pulling their own weight.

that right there is why not, i know for 100% this is gonna ask for yelling and cursing just because a certain player has trouble keeping up or that player is under-geared.
you might think it’s all with good intentions but guess what, cesar tried to conquer europe “with good intentions” yet the roman empire did more hurt then it did good.
templars killed in the name of god “with good intentions” yet they showed how much a slaughter house they left in their wake.

it’s an exaggerated way to explain this but that’s how things are, you might think it’s a good idea but believe me, nothing good can come out of this.

evilunderling.9265:

Please, enlighten me as to how DPS meters do any of these things.

Are you telling me that anyone with a DPS meter instantly turns into someone who thinks that other players’s respective worths are defined solely by the holy numberz? Because funnily enough, that’s a load of horse crap.

You do realize you’re on the internet?!

A DPS meter is only usefull if the user can interpret the results properly. Sadly I don’t believe that most users have the skills , motivation or strength of character to do this. So I would consider this a waste of effort to make it a general utility for the game.

Be aware Anet has a very strict policy on the use of 3rd party applications that interfere with the GW2 client, despite what we think, (especially people from other MMO’s where plugins, DPS meters and said information is allowed) Anet can still make rules as they see fit, either you follow them or risk getting banned.

Anything that gives you an unfair advantage over other players via a 3rd party application is basically not allowed, including multiple command macro’s(despite Anet saying that they aren’t going to ban anyone for macroing musical instruments)
So I’m pretty sure this “helper” won’t be allowed

Jerus.4350:

Or they can be used as backup when telling someone they aren’t pulling their own weight.

I’d be wary of using a DPS meter to call out PUGs like that, myself. Even with evidence to back it up, just telling someone that they suck is never going to help. Instead, you should be helping them to improve and hopefully setting them on the path towards becoming a valued player.

Although I tend to play healers in MMOs, so that might just be my ‘training’ talking. :P

CureForLiving.5360:

You do realize you’re on the internet?!

Yes. But giving someone something that can be used for, among other things, kittenwaddery will not make them into a kittenwad if they weren’t already a kittenwad, and denying a kittenwad a tool they can use in their kittenwaddery will not keep them from engaging in it.

I think they should just disable chat and make all other players invisible.

evilunderling.9265:

KotCR.6024:

Other than that, as others have mentioned, DPS Meters are a bad idea and should be avoided like the plague. They discourage friendliness , accessibility, and co-operation, and encourage negative playstyles, limit build creativity and originality, and train players in all the wrong things when it comes to actually learning the game and becoming good at it.

Please, enlighten me as to how DPS meters do any of these things.

Are you telling me that anyone with a DPS meter instantly turns into someone who thinks that other players’s respective worths are defined solely by the holy numberz? Because funnily enough, that’s a load of horse crap.

Except that this is a real thing that happens.

See EQ2 endgame attitudes for a really good example of why log parsers / dps meters are bad. I don’t care how big anyone’s e-peane is. Mine included.

…and I’ll say it again….

Personal dps meter, fine

Group dps meter, not fine

The first helps people to tweak builds or check exactly how much dmg they do with a certain set up. The latter encourages elitism, abuse, and negativity.

Ah yes, and here we go with ‘casual’ automatically equating to ‘bad’ again….

I think the fact that I used both words should be a strong indicator that I’m not equating them.

The ones who will have the biggest issues will overwhelmingly fall into this “bad casual” category. Neither “good casuals” nor “bad hardcores” (yes, both do exist) have nearly the number of issues and complaints about self-accountability.

Wethospu.6437:

papry.8096:

Wethospu.6437:

The truth is that if you are measuring the size of the pencil, no matter how you sign your name, the bigger pencil will be bigger.

This game doesn’t give you extra points for style or friendship.

Two player with big pencil – tiny resistance aka (zerk)
One not able to sign his name (spending his time on the ground).
One able to sign his name (being usefull).

I will always prefer someone with a lesser pen, if he sign better than the other one (aka a bit more tanky gear & bit less DPS but usually alive & usefull).

You always get points for style & friendship.

What points? Imaginary points?

Then why would you care about a dps meter? You can still get your imaginary points.

You seems to be unable to reply to the first part.
So has for the imaginary point part; I always feels good when I helped a fellow player in one way or another because isn’t what MMO are about ? “playing with people” ?

As quite a number of people have stated give someone a tool and he will be misused in many way aka WOW gearscore & inspect function from other MMO.
I will always thanks Anet to not have implemented this kind of thing in GW2.

It is amazing that people assume that everything which doesn’t suit their play style is an attack against them.
Some people want to maximize their performance, and this would help them. If you are not interested in this, it has nothing to do with you, and obviously there are people who will want this.

just look at how much effort this guy has put in creating a tool that can help his fellow players (it is not just a dps meter), but no, some people just want to cry against everything that doesn’t cater to their ideas of what others should do

I will be getting this as soon as it comes out, simply because it’s great, and in if anet want to ban me because of it, they can go right ahead, if they had such an attitude they wouldn’t deserve to have players to buy their shiny outfits and bag space

Serophous.9085:

KGS.9842:

why don’t they just make it so everyone has the exact same dps, that way no one will feel left out

really hoping not a troll post….

sorry mate

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

…and I’ll say it again….

Personal dps meter, fine

Group dps meter, not fine

The first helps people to tweak builds or check exactly how much dmg they do with a certain set up. The latter encourages elitism, abuse, and negativity.

Yeah, this is a good point. But can you really have one in a game and not the other?

papry.8096:

I will always thanks Anet to not have implemented this kind of thing in GW2.

I agree, the arrogance already displayed in this thread should be a big red flag against it ever being done.

Bekkr.6192:

See EQ2 endgame attitudes for a really good example of why log parsers / dps meters are bad. I don’t care how big anyone’s kitten is. Mine included.

It’s not about that. It’s about having a little more information to work with when trying to get better at the game and when trying to work out why things might be going wrong in group content.

As I’ve already said several times, people who are going to play the toxic CYA/blame game are going to play it whether they have a DPS meter for ammunition or not. Just block them, report them, and move on, but please don’t blame the DPS meter for the fact that another player turned out to be an kitten.

evilunderling.9265:

Bekkr.6192:

See EQ2 endgame attitudes for a really good example of why log parsers / dps meters are bad. I don’t care how big anyone’s kitten is. Mine included.

It’s not about that. It’s about having a little more information to work with when trying to get better at the game and when trying to work out why things might be going wrong in group content.

As I’ve already said several times, people who are going to play the toxic CYA/blame game are going to play it whether they have a DPS meter for ammunition or not. Just block them, report them, and move on, but please don’t blame the DPS meter for the fact that another player turned out to be an kitten.

But I’d rather get kicked for having 800 AP than for playing terribly!

CMM.6712:

papry.8096:

I will always thanks Anet to not have implemented this kind of thing in GW2.

I agree, the arrogance already displayed in this thread should be a big red flag against it ever being done.

Oh no, I chose to take offense to some people! Now I’m angry and demand that we spite them just because I don’t have full control over my emotions!

Celtic Lady.3729:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

…and I’ll say it again….

Personal dps meter, fine

Group dps meter, not fine

The first helps people to tweak builds or check exactly how much dmg they do with a certain set up. The latter encourages elitism, abuse, and negativity.

Yeah, this is a good point. But can you really have one in a game and not the other?

Sure you can.

Like I’ve said in pretty much ever other thread on this topic, they could just do like they did with Isle of the Nameless in GW1. That’d work (for both if you really wanted to)

CMM.6712:

I agree, the arrogance already displayed in this thread should be a big red flag against it ever being done.

That’s the exact opposite of true. Just because somebody came across as sarcastic or snide about something, doesn’t make them wrong about it.

Sadly, this isn’t something that’s really been studied. There’s this widespread belief that DPS meters somehow turn people into kittens, and all I can say in response is that:

1. It simply doesn’t seem to follow.
2. It doesn’t match up to my experience.

In Final Fantasy XIV, DPS meters are commonly used (despite being forbidden), and gear inspections are available. I ran far more dungeons there than I ever did here. In all of that, significant examples of toxic play? Not many, and almost never anything to do with DPS meters or gear checks. Anecdotal, admittedly, but still a counterexample to the idea that gear inspections and DPS meters inevitably result in toxic players.

papry.8096:

Wethospu.6437:

papry.8096:

Wethospu.6437:

The truth is that if you are measuring the size of the pencil, no matter how you sign your name, the bigger pencil will be bigger.

This game doesn’t give you extra points for style or friendship.

Two player with big pencil – tiny resistance aka (zerk)
One not able to sign his name (spending his time on the ground).
One able to sign his name (being usefull).

I will always prefer someone with a lesser pen, if he sign better than the other one (aka a bit more tanky gear & bit less DPS but usually alive & usefull).

You always get points for style & friendship.

What points? Imaginary points?

Then why would you care about a dps meter? You can still get your imaginary points.

You seems to be unable to reply to the first part.
So has for the imaginary point part; I always feels good when I helped a fellow player in one way or another because isn’t what MMO are about ? “playing with people” ?

As quite a number of people have stated give someone a tool and he will be misused in many way aka WOW gearscore & inspect function from other MMO.
I will always thanks Anet to not have implemented this kind of thing in GW2.

So if you got a DPS meter you would suddenly turn from a nice guy into a monster?

Also you even said it yourself that you prefer people with higher DPS.

evilunderling.9265:

KotCR.6024:

Other than that, as others have mentioned, DPS Meters are a bad idea and should be avoided like the plague. They discourage friendliness , accessibility, and co-operation, and encourage negative playstyles, limit build creativity and originality, and train players in all the wrong things when it comes to actually learning the game and becoming good at it.

Please, enlighten me as to how DPS meters do any of these things.

Are you telling me that anyone with a DPS meter instantly turns into someone who thinks that other players’s respective worths are defined solely by the holy numberz? Because funnily enough, that’s a load of horse crap.

DPS meters show one thing: DPS. They tell you nothing about the other contributions people brought to the fight, like sharing buffs for additional group damage (might, fury, banners, spotter, …) or extra defences (aegis, protection, …) that allow group members to keep up their damage rather than spend the time dodging, healing or whatever. They don’t show that you “lost” dps because a group member messed up the mob positioning.

There is a ton of contributions to a really good group fight that won’t show up on a dps meter. My own experience in other games is that especially in pugs people use them to concentrate almost exclusively on those numbers and try to get the best on the expense of other, sometimes much more helpful, contributions to the fight. Just because one build does more damage than another doesn’t automatically mean it’s the better build for the “job”.

In a previous MMO I played, my main was a healer. I regularly played her successfully in endgame raids. My preferred set-up, that I felt most comfortable with and that worked best with my raid group, had a strong component of group buffing for damage prevention and regeneration. My max healing per fight was not nearly that of a healer concentrating on maximizing healing and playing whack-a-mole with healthbars to the max, but my group was always comfortably healthy, with much less fluctuation in health levels than that of a “max healing” healer. Still, I knew people (and quite a few of them, although, of course, outside the raid I was part of ), that judged “good” healers only by the numbers they could bring to the table.

Judging from the experiences I have made, I would also expect a wide-spread use of dps meters to lead to a narrowing down of build variety and a lot of people neglecting support and control (even more) to just go for their personal biggest numbers. I know there are people who enjoy just that, big numbers, but personally I enjoy playing with other people, getting teams to work even if they may not be optimal on paper, and getting a group that works well together, with each person’s skills meshing with the rest and contributing to the whole, instead of individual numbers. A good group really is much more than the sum of parts, but concentrating on just one individual score without taking the synergies into account it unfortunately a good way to limit variety and complexity of build and group composition.

And yes, in case you haven’t noticed: I’m not a fan of dps meters .

Oh, don’t worry about me, I actually try to improve my gameplay all the time. I just prefer to do it while keeping an eye on the whole situation rather than just fiddling with individual, mostly unconnected parts of it.

evilunderling.9265:

KotCR.6024:

Other than that, as others have mentioned, DPS Meters are a bad idea and should be avoided like the plague. They discourage friendliness , accessibility, and co-operation, and encourage negative playstyles, limit build creativity and originality, and train players in all the wrong things when it comes to actually learning the game and becoming good at it.

Please, enlighten me as to how DPS meters do any of these things.

Are you telling me that anyone with a DPS meter instantly turns into someone who thinks that other players’s respective worths are defined solely by the holy numberz? Because funnily enough, that’s a load of horse crap.

No it isn’t, and this is exactly what happens if you’ve ever had any experience with games with a DPS Meter. You need to remember, this is the internet, and on the internet, people suck and are egotistical.

As for how DPS Meters do these things, several other posters have just already explained it to you in more detail, so there’s no need for me to repeat. I can give you an example though;

A Phalanx Warrior bringing all offensive-stat Banners and maintaining 20-25stacks of Might on a party contributes way way way more DPS to a party than a Signet Warrior with no Banners. However, on a DPS Meter, the Signet Warrior would show to have way more DPS than the Phalanx Warrior (exacerbated even more if the Signet Warrior is present with a Phalanx Banner Warrior) , misleading the player to believe he is the more useful and valuable edition to the team, and would be more likely to ignore direction and advice from a true, more competent, leader of a team. And that’s a DPS example which should be easier for scrub meatheads to understand.

But there’s other examples too that the meatheads will never understand, such as a Guardian with a moderate DPS build who successfully keeps a team clear of conditions (of particular interest, Weakness and Blind), prevents people from going down for longer due to his passive heals, blocks, reflects and group stability, and gets people back on their feet quickly and safely if they do go down ensuring they can carry on dishing out their own DPS, might also be contributing way more to the success and efficiency of a party than the meathead Signet Warrior, though the DPS meter wouldn’t show it and, due to the idiocy of the internet, they’d be no way you could ever convince the meathead Signet Warrior that the Guardian was far more crucial to the teams success than the Signet Warrior because he’d just keep rattling on about how his DPS was twice that of the Guardian (which once again, in part was probably because of the Guardian enabling him to carry on DPSing).

And if you think this meathead mentality isn’t already in-the game, you are wrong. Just look at the LFG listings at anytime, you’ll find some people asking for parties of nearly all Warriors, sometimes even going so far as to forbid other certain classes from attending. Certain classes that actually contribute more to the success and efficiency of a party than multiple Warriors do (and that’s almost every other class in the game, once you already have a single Warrior). But you can’t tell these people otherwise. A DPS Meter would just encourage this dull mentality and that’s a bad thing.

A proper DPS meter would actually show how bad stacking warriors is.

A proper DPS meter wouldn’t just show how much damage your character is dealing. It would show how much offensive support you give, how much defensive support you give, how much control you give and so on.

Gandrogh.1530:

They can do a feature like an option to accept other peolple to show their dps.

Bless your little, innocent heart…

Why do people blame the tool when it is misused?.. Do you blame video games when someone plays it and then decide to go on a rampage in real life like what the fox news tries to portray?…. No, the blame is placed upon the person who is doing the wrong, just like if someone uses the dps meter for something toxic, he should be accountable for himself alone, the entire tool shouldn’t be to blame considering it has many beneficial uses.