Guild Wars 2

Preface: I’m a fairly casual player, and have already completed my story, leveled one craft to 400 and have gotten 100% map completion.

There are just not enough calls for action in the endgame.

When playing through, the next steps were logical, you progress from one heart or DE to the next until you’ve enjoyed that content (or outleveled it) and moved on. The whole while you actively kept an eye out for those “epic DEs” that meant something really cool and rewarding was about to happen.

However, once you hit 80, the gameplay experience drastically takes a turn for the worst.

First, there’s no next logical step to follow when attempting to find where the action’s at. What I would expect to be rewarding end game content would be any of the epic dynamic events on Orr (Cathedrals come to mind), any of the Dragon events (Jormag, The Shatterer, Tequatl) or any of the explorable dungeon runs.

Second, the cost to navigate the map is astronomical when the destination isn’t yet known. It’s easy to validate the cost of waypoints at 80 when the user knows where they are going, but when we’re not really sure what’s going on across the map, it’s easy to drop 10s and get nothing in return.

And then there’s the issue with LFG and dungeons. I’ve read a few topics on the subject (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Dungeon-Finder-Sorely-Needed/first#post203347 seems to be the most responded one by ANet), and all I can say is this: I am a User Experience developer and if there is one thing I’ve learned in my career it is that you simply cannot force a user to use a tool, regardless of how well thought out you think it is; simply put, it either works or it doesn’t. Right now, the LFG tool DOES NOT WORK for what the audience wants it to do. We want something that connects us to content. Edit: my opinions on LFG here (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/What-the-LFG-system-should-be/first)

Lance Coolee.9480:

I’m a fairly casual player

Knew this was a lie when you continued

Lance Coolee.9480:

and have already completed my story, leveled one craft to 400 and have gotten 100% map completion.

This requires several hundred hours of gameplay, at least 250 but likely over 300, so given that the game’s only been out for 27 days, getting to where you are now would require over 9 hours per day, or three times as much as the average MMO player spends on an MMO (Daedalus Project). That’s far from casual.

Lance Coolee.9480:

There are just not enough calls for action in the endgame.

When playing through, the next steps were logical, you progress from one heart or DE to the next until you’ve enjoyed that content (or outleveled it) and moved on. The whole while you actively kept an eye out for those “epic DEs” that meant something really cool and rewarding was about to happen.

However, once you hit 80, the gameplay experience drastically takes a turn for the worst.

First, there’s no next logical step to follow when attempting to find where the action’s at. What I would expect to be rewarding end game content would be any of the epic dynamic events on Orr (Cathedrals come to mind), any of the Dragon events (Jormag, The Shatterer, Tequatl) or any of the explorable dungeon runs.

The action’s all over the place. You can’t go anywhere without some nearby event telling you what’s up.

Lance Coolee.9480:

Second, the cost to navigate the map is astronomical when the destination isn’t yet known. It’s easy to validate the cost of waypoints at 80 when the user knows where they are going, but when we’re not really sure what’s going on across the map, it’s easy to drop 10s and get nothing in return.

So stop being anti-social and ask in /map what’s going on.

Lance Coolee.9480:

And then there’s the issue with LFG and dungeons. I’ve read a few topics on the subject (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Dungeon-Finder-Sorely-Needed/first#post203347 seems to be the most responded one by ANet), and all I can say is this: I am a User Experience developer and if there is one thing I’ve learned in my career it is that you simply cannot force a user to use a tool, regardless of how well thought out you think it is; simply put, it either works or it doesn’t. Right now, the LFG tool DOES NOT WORK for what the audience wants it to do. We want something that connects us to content.

I can agree with you there, an LFG system would be great.

But aside from all of that, you’ve failed to mention how endgame is a “boring standstill.” I mean, you just blasted through the content about three times as fast as moderately dedicated players. Considering that the game launched with several hundred hours of stuff to do, what more could you want?

I gotta agree with DusK, This game launched with more content / dynamic content than any game in recent memory. Probably ever.

This seems like a case of “Flying through levelling” and complaining that the Devs arent dropping content fast enough for you to crush in 16 hours, which would take most of us over 2 weeks.

Hell, Im level 37, have 18% map completition and my highest craft is 177. AND I PLAY THE GAME FOR MORE THAN 4 HOURS A DAY!! Apply the brakes once in a while and you won’t be so kitten bored…

**And I bought the game the day after Launch. Turtle speed FTW!!

1. I have 130 hrs logged for my lvl 80, granted I spent a good while on the weekends playing through.

2. Yes, there’s action throughout the game, but it’s not the epic content you would expect to see in the endgame; I’m not going to go back to Jotun’s Vista to have some NPC tell me I need to help them repair a bridge.

3. You missed the point in that it’s too costly. I have gone to zones and spammed map chat for any events going on. In fact, I’ve even taken it steps further and would run throughout the map hoping for something to pop up, justifying all the running around by farming crafting materials (this is mostly how I was able to level my craft to 400). Often times, I’d find myself sitting by a DE spawn point hoping that something would happen. I’ve even offered to start a few DE’s myself (like the Cathedral of Zephyrs) and would spam map chat for other players without response. I can only assume they are in LA or at a dungeon waypoint doing the same thing – looking for something to do.

@Faction, I think you’re still missing the point. It’s not an issue of the enjoyment in leveling; personally, I LOVED leveling through. It also wasn’t an issue with the amount of content at level 80 – there is plenty to do WHEN you know what’s going on and where. The argument still remains that there isn’t enough bringing players together when they hit level 80 – regardless if you hit 80 the day after release or a few months after release.

OK OK OK, perhaps it’s a mechanics thing, I’ll cough up that much. As a lower level player (as stated above), I may not know the ungodly amount that it costs to travel to waypoints, although I hear its pretty steep. So thats a possible mechanic issue.

Another possible mechanic issue (that I agree with) is there’s no long-distance way to tell whats going on in a region if you’re not within earshot of the event. If the regions were quartered and sent out a message when a new event sprung up in the 1/4 area, you could see it on your map from further away. THAT is what I’d love to see.

However, you’re essentially arguing semantics on fixes and QoL features that most people dont even know they need yet, because there’s not THAT many 80s, and there’s no content like this out there in different games to take notes from.

Also, we’re 27 days in, give a little slack for the new direction ANet is taking with the game, again, its not like they can just copy features that some other game is doing, when there’s no other game out there like this…

I’m not arguing that these fixes need to be in yesterday; my expectations certainly aren’t what you may think they are.

I myself am a software developer, so I personally know the process involved in product development (ESPECIALLY when you actually care about the product).

Nor am I arguing in favor of repeating the same bad practices other games have implemented in a “kneejerk” reaction to keep people engaged.

Right now I’m leveling a warrior and am tinkering with a mesmer in sPvP, so I still have an overall engaged attitude in the game, but the issue is what do I do w/ my lvl 80? Every time I log in, it feels like all I’m doing is either waiting for fun or unsuccessfully looking for fun.

There are plenty of zones I’d like to frequent regularly if all that changed was either 1. I knew something was going on there (keep in mind that some of the epic DE’s are on 3 hour timers), or 2. The cost to travel there to find out wasn’t holistically overwhelming.

I’m not finding the endgame all that amazing.

The dungeons aren’t nearly as interesting as I expected them to be.

The endgame zones are wall to wall highly aggro trash that respawns every 20 seconds with not nearly enough challenging or interesting events going on.

I’ll be in all exotics (only missing off hand and water weapon) without exerting much effort at all.

Leveling and gearing up are way to fast and easy in addition to endgame content being boring compared to leveling content.

I don’t find end game content to be “boring” though I’ll admit it’s quite lackluster at it’s current stature. Personally, I feel that level 80 zones should not consist of the undead. Preferably I wish I could see a much better variety of end game monsters that relate to the story especially ones that could feature criminal organizations like the inquest or the separatists.

However, for now I’d like to see more content being added especially to parts of the map that are locked and to be a little more optimistic, the asura gates in a cave at Lion’s Arch seem rather convincing enough.

DusK.3849:

Lance Coolee.9480:

I’m a fairly casual player

Knew this was a lie when you continued

Lance Coolee.9480:

and have already completed my story, leveled one craft to 400 and have gotten 100% map completion.

This requires several hundred hours of gameplay, at least 250 but likely over 300, so given that the game’s only been out for 27 days, getting to where you are now would require over 9 hours per day, or three times as much as the average MMO player spends on an MMO (Daedalus Project). That’s far from casual.

Lance Coolee.9480:

There are just not enough calls for action in the endgame.

When playing through, the next steps were logical, you progress from one heart or DE to the next until you’ve enjoyed that content (or outleveled it) and moved on. The whole while you actively kept an eye out for those “epic DEs” that meant something really cool and rewarding was about to happen.

However, once you hit 80, the gameplay experience drastically takes a turn for the worst.

First, there’s no next logical step to follow when attempting to find where the action’s at. What I would expect to be rewarding end game content would be any of the epic dynamic events on Orr (Cathedrals come to mind), any of the Dragon events (Jormag, The Shatterer, Tequatl) or any of the explorable dungeon runs.

The action’s all over the place. You can’t go anywhere without some nearby event telling you what’s up.

Lance Coolee.9480:

Second, the cost to navigate the map is astronomical when the destination isn’t yet known. It’s easy to validate the cost of waypoints at 80 when the user knows where they are going, but when we’re not really sure what’s going on across the map, it’s easy to drop 10s and get nothing in return.

So stop being anti-social and ask in /map what’s going on.

Lance Coolee.9480:

And then there’s the issue with LFG and dungeons. I’ve read a few topics on the subject (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Dungeon-Finder-Sorely-Needed/first#post203347 seems to be the most responded one by ANet), and all I can say is this: I am a User Experience developer and if there is one thing I’ve learned in my career it is that you simply cannot force a user to use a tool, regardless of how well thought out you think it is; simply put, it either works or it doesn’t. Right now, the LFG tool DOES NOT WORK for what the audience wants it to do. We want something that connects us to content.

I can agree with you there, an LFG system would be great.

But aside from all of that, you’ve failed to mention how endgame is a “boring standstill.” I mean, you just blasted through the content about three times as fast as moderately dedicated players. Considering that the game launched with several hundred hours of stuff to do, what more could you want?

So you are saying that he’s not a casual player. Are you saying that this game is not for hardcore players and caters to ultra-casual players? I think at this point we can fairly say that this game, is truly revolutionary in the sense that it purposely gives you less content, replay-ability, or sense of accomplishment than any MMO on the market.

It’s kinda sad huh?

I give this game one month before we see a massive drop in the player-base.

To be honest, my (or any other’s) type of play really has no relevance on the state of endgame PVE or this topic.

Keep in mind, this isn’t an attack on the game’s overall fun-factor, just PVE after 80; I am certainly well aware that there is still WvW, sPVP, jumping puzzles, crafting, new characters, etc, etc.

I really only made a few observations and offered some suggestions on how to accommodate endgame play.

Well hopefully once they fix most of the bugs and what not, they can work on making the DE’s and fights more fun, interesting, challenging, as well as throwing in some more optional carrots.

I’m still patient.

I did a DE today that’s a great example of why alot of these DE’s are boring. Was in For-something’s Pass, that 25-40 norn zone, where Mechataur were coming to attack this building. It was just me an one other guy, basically it would spawn 3 Mechataur every 15 or so seconds that would run to attack the building. Of course me and the other guy would kill them within 5 seconds, and they don’t even attack back.

So this is going on for a while, and I look at the timer and see 4:30 minutes still left…. Was basically a “wtf” moment. Unfortunately alot of DE’s are like that, not epic or challenging or fun whatsoever. =/

Dgenerate.1948:

So you are saying that he’s not a casual player. Are you saying that this game is not for hardcore players and caters to ultra-casual players? I think at this point we can fairly say that this game, is truly revolutionary in the sense that it purposely gives you less content, replay-ability, or sense of accomplishment than any MMO on the market.

It’s kinda sad huh?

I give this game one month before we see a massive drop in the player-base.

Uh, you don’t have to be an “ultra-casual” to still have a crapton of stuff to do in this game. Dunno where you got that idea. Same with the whole “less content” bit, considering it’s kind of a proven point that this game is less than a month old but has hundreds of hours of content.

Oh, and normal gamers, as in, gamers that don’t need high numbers to overcompensate for other… uh… we’ll say shortcomings, get a sense of accomplishment from the gameplay itself. Insisting that an MMORPG can’t provide a sense of accomplishment other than “yay, my numbers are going up” is daft.

Killing world bosses and completing dungeons aren’t doing the job of making players feel the “sense of accomplishment” either. Shouldn’t be hard to see that with all the complaints popping up here.

Casual player my ars! I would say I’m casual b/c I’m only at lvl 25 yet you’ve manage to complete the storyline // crafting // etc ……………………………. casual player tisk tisk

Dgenerate.1948:

Killing world bosses and completing dungeons aren’t doing the job of making players feel the “sense of accomplishment” either. Shouldn’t be hard to see that with all the complaints popping up here.

All the complaints of that nature popping up here are from idiots who walked into this game thinking it would be WoW 2. I don’t feel any sympathy for those kids whatsoever.

C’mon, keep it on topic. The “type” of player really is just a relative factor and has no bearing on any reasonable metrics. Nor is the argument over how “much” there is to do in the game, since I never even brought that up.

The original premise was in the flaws in CONNECTING players to the actual content – something that is not affected by either the type of player or the amount of content.

All the complaints of that nature popping up here are from idiots who walked into this game thinking it would be WoW 2. I don’t feel any sympathy for those kids whatsoever.

Ah so they should have expected less.

Dgenerate.1948:

All the complaints of that nature popping up here are from idiots who walked into this game thinking it would be WoW 2. I don’t feel any sympathy for those kids whatsoever.

Ah so they should have expected less.

They should have expected satisfying gameplay. Instead, they skip over that, because they don’t give a crap about gameplay, instead going “hurr durr this game’s bad because teh epic l00tz i get don’t make me OP and the only way to justify my otherwise meaningless existence is if my stats increase forever”.

Perhaps Dusk you should actually read what people write; you’re starting to sound exactly like the category of people you are explicitly attacking.

Stop trolling – positively contribute or GTFO.

Okay now I need to just laugh. “Satisfying gameplay”? Really? Obviously not. Good games dont thrive off of just “satisfying gameplay”.

Sorry, I have a hard time being nice to people that would have the audacity to insist that ANet should do a complete 180 on the philosophy of this game, ideas set in place years ago, solely to appease a minority who wants to play Microsoft Excel with fantasy graphics.

This really isn’t directed at your post, Lance, as you haven’t said anything as ridiculous as “give us gear treadmills and bring back the trinity” like some of these other tools have.

But all the same, what you have done is blasted through several hundred hours of content significantly faster than what could be considered healthy and are (hilariously) wondering why there’s nothing left to do. So really, the only answer anyone can give you is just wait and hold Colin Johanson on his word that more content will be available in this game for free over time than what you’d get in a sub-fee MMO. Then you can speed through that stuff, binge-playing 9+ hours a day like you did with the core game, and maybe even crack a joke about how you’re a “fairly casual player” afterwards as well.

And Dgenerate, sorry you didn’t like the game. But hey, pandaland’s just around the corner, so you can go get your “numbers going up” rocks off there instead of insisting that this game should be just like that.

you can craft a legendary, do explorable dungeons, WvW, spvp, or chase after achievements. if none appeal to you, then the answer is obvious. but you dont NEED any answers, as youre just venting and this is yet another whine thread from a person who did not research the game before buying, or had way high of expectations.

You really don’t digest information well, do you Dusk.

Re-read what I wrote, let me know exactly what statement eluded you to believing I was asking for more content.

Alright, so if you’re not complaining that there’s “nothing to do”… then you’re complaining that you’re not automatically notified when you’re in Orr and some world boss halfway across Tyria’s about to pop?

i get what youre saying. at 80, im going for world completion, then WvW until new DE content comes out. if youve explored the entire world and dont like WvW, then youre out of options…you played too fast. take a break, come back in 1 month, or roll an alt.

theres an amazing thread on Reddit by some player who achieved pretty much everything by leveling 3 80’s. this person wrote a nice goodbye letter, showed screenshots of his/her adventure, and said the journey was great fun. and left it at that.

it’s a brand new MMO and the PVE can be beaten in like 400 hours. what did you expect? a revolutionary, dynamic endgame zone? Orr brings some dynamism to the genre, but even that gets repetitive. thats why they gave us WvW (worth $60 bucks alone) and spvp.

re-reading your OP, i actually have no idea what youre complaining about =(

Or they can reduce the cost of navigating the map looking for things to do? When did that become unreasonable? And since when did any of you become the authority in how to play this game?

We’re merely making suggestions that enhance gameplay at 80. Again (dusk), either add something constructive to say or go hate on someone else in another thread.

For the record, here’s my /age (not that it matters). But I thoroughly enjoyed the content (and am still enjoying the content on my warrior); and apparently I enjoyed it well enough that I didn’t even notice 80 levels and a full map fly by.

Nor have I mentioned WvW or sPvP, those are two separate topics. The goal here is “how can we keep people better engaged in PVE after level 80”. I still play WvW, I still play sPvP, and I am still enjoying leveling other characters.

@nerva:

Yes, I can craft a legendary (not PVE)
Yes, I can WvW (not PVE)
Yes, I can sPvP (not PVE)
Yes, I can do achievements (eh, technically PVE, but w/out any “strategy”)

I’m sorry, where did any of those suggestions contribute to my original statement?

i have no idea man.

there is no gear progression so there is no pve

Lance Coolee.9480:

Preface: I’m a fairly casual player, and have already completed my story, leveled one craft to 400 and have gotten 100% map completion.

Contradictory to what it means to be a “casual player”

Dusk, not once did I mention in this thread do I want this game to be like WoW. Your fanboy attitude makes you seem like an extremely ignorant idiot. I did however have high expectations that this game would bring the genre one step further, but instead I feel like although Anet did a good job in some aspects, they did extremely poorly in some of the most important aspects. Do I expect them to be able to do some extreme change? No. But I do hope they take into account what people are saying here, and maybe mold the game to eventually be something more than half-decent. There will never be a “perfect game”, but I think you will find that you will soon become the minority very shortly if things remain the way they are.

You can’t compare the content at launch of a new game to the amount of content for a game with 3-5 expansions and have it look favorable.

Chiatroll.7109:

You can’t compare the content at launch of a new game to the amount of content for a game with 3-5 expansions and have it look favorable.

/facepalm

We aren’t. We are expressing how we feel about GW2, but Anet fanboys are “A=A” when it comes to bringing up anything that criticizes GW2.

I will simply say straight out that PvE in this game is meant to take a backseat to the PvP.Honestly this is a matter of playing the game for the wrong reason.Or simply playing too fast and ignoring things.

You have to remember what this game is a sequel to.Guild Wars. It’s focus was it’s PvP.PvE was nothing but prep for PvP. hell there even a way to simply make a character and go right into lvl 20 PvP without even remotely touching PVE. Why? Because that is what Guild Wars is all about.Hell the name should give it away.

Guild Wars lasted for years because of amazing pvp and this is gonna do the same.PvE this time around is more of a distraction and there is a lot more to do in that sense but however PvP remains the focus.

I understand your talking about PvE here but you get my meaning.Btw make 4 more characters and get them to 80 at a slower pace. Congrats you now have many many more hours of play for the game. The PvE in this game was built not to be end game at any time. PvP is your end game. Creating builds,testing them,joining guilds,making teams, learning all the ins and outs of pvp, and doing it all again when patches or new content changes the game is what this is all about.

I apologize if i ranted or said too many things that sounded the same, i drank soda and i a bit off. But i hope you get my point.Good luck.

So doing the things you did while leveling is no longer fun?
Or maybe wasn’t at all? Grats, you’re in the wrong game then. Playing games a way you cannot enjoy → WoW, LoL. That way.

I really don’t know how else I can say that my personal issue not with the amount of content, rather how the games connects us to the content; I’ve said it a few times, yet people still respond with “how much end game content do you want out of a game just released”?

If you folks want to argue in favor of ANet, then argue with logical points, rather than with the scripted “go back to wow, elitist” comments. This is a discussion attempting to make GW2 a better game, so to blunt – stop being d-bags.

This might be for you.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/104j7o/you_are_all_destroying_the_mmo_genre_and_you_dont/

My suggestions are real simple and are based on some very critical User Experience design concepts – to reduce the amount of resistance between your user and their goals.

Let me elaborate.

The goals in this case are the PVE content, and at 80 the only real rewarding ones are:
- DE’s that drop chests (only way you can get gear your level to drop)
- Dungeon runs

The resistance being:
- The cost to navigate the map looking for DE’s to participate in
- The process of finding a relatively capable PuG to complete explorable dungeons with

Ideally, the goal is to connect the user to what they want to do; so the fewer the steps or logical barriers involved in the process, the better.

So what am I arguing against?

1. The cost to navigate the map looking for stuff to do (I actually love repeating these epic battles – they still haven’t gotten old for me). The issue is that most of the good DE’s are on long spawn timers – to the point where people are actually composing their own tools to predict when these events will occur (ie http://gw2dragontimer.webs.com/).

2. The LFG tool just doesn’t cut it. It’s too broad a brush for people, there’s no refinement or focus within it. Even if people know where it is in the UI, it does a terrible job of connecting people to the game. I don’t want to “Look for a group”, I want to “Beat some epic bad guy’s face in”.

So what am I suggesting?

1. There needs to be a way to rally people across the entire map for particular DE’s; I see nothing that can argue against this regarding the user’s experience, only technical arguments over how this can be achieved. Again, sitting around waiting for that epic DE to begin isn’t feasible, and jumping from waypoint to waypoint looking for the next DE to participate in is far too costly.

2. The LFG system needs some major retooling. Ideally, there should never be a “Looking for Group” tool, as it’s not what users really want; rather work toward implementing a system that shows users what is going on across Tyria. Seriously people, invest a little thought into this and you could easily see how greatly this could improve the QoL for players at 80.

Furthering the topic on the LFG tool: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/What-the-LFG-system-should-be/first

I think to some GW1 players, “casual” gaming is having the PC on while cooking and watching TV. If you look at your PC while the game is on, “maybe this game just isn’t for you?”

I haven’t played an MMO in 5-6 years, and work professionally. I bought the game to play with a friend. I played from 1-4 hours a night (usually 2) for the first 2 weeks and at the end of that time… he (a self-styled gamer and GW1 fan) is still rambling around playing alts. I got a toon to 80, got some exotic karma gear (at full price), ran most of the dungeons, got cooking to 400, 3 others between 100-300, made enough gold to buy manuals and gear and dye for him, tried the forge, completed 60% of the world map (without even trying I hate completion) and have done ok in PvP and WvW (although I find both terribly boring.)

All of that took less effort and time than it took me to get to level 10 in my first MMO, and was done very casually. I didn’t LFG, ask for help except in some level 60+ PS instances, or spend any time zerging or farming other than what was impossible to avoid. I didn’t get on early, stay up late, spend all day playing, and if anything, for the first week particularly, I spent time standing around because I felt bad outlevelling my friend and seeing the game without him. This just doesn’t feel like the right pace to me, especially since I had no clue what to expect or history with the franchise. I mean didn’t someone throw out the notion that having everyone done with the game by the time BL2 and MoP came out might be rough on the Store? I thought of that on day two sheesh.

I really don’t think Lance is complaining or attacking the game; seems to me he’s trying to use the forums to promote dialog and toss ideas around to make the game better.

I agree with the WP costs (and will focus on WP). I’ve said this in other posts too; the cost is too high to encourage or even allow the joining of Hot Linked events* taking part in the zones we are even in. Pre-level 80 (for that matter, before level 70) the WP costs aren’t really felt. We have hearts to fill that reward cash, plus the events and drops. Remove those hearts (if you’ve completed them all), raise the costs of WPs, and migrating around the world becomes a bit painful.

*The Hot Linked events are great and promote the community joining up to take on tougher foes. But when the costs of joining these are higher than the reward it leaves the player base few choices.
Join at a loss.
Hoof it, in which case you’ll probably be late and miss it. Wasting your time.
Skip it. Potentially leaving those Hot Linking wondering why no one is coming to help.

This mechanically removes players from content they could be joining in on. Anet’s focus on slowing inflation has the side effect of also removing players from doable content.

When we see people say there’s nothing to do at 80; what they mean is that there is nothing to do at 80 that yields a net return for their time.

Fun is as subjective to a person just as “Grind” is. So we can’t tell a person to just play for Fun, when that person might not find seeing his/her revenue stream go down for just joining “Fun”.

I think it’s a core mechanic problem that Anet will get to addressing sooner or later. But until then, it’s just painful trying to play with a level 80 character.
I’ve started an alt, and the difference in enjoyment is startling.

Dgenerate, you serious with the “good games don’t thrive off good gameplay”? Did you even read what you wrote?

Players who can’t get a sense of enjoyment from the act itself rather than the reward will not be happy with this game, it’ll never be what they want. Comparing the design philosophy of this game to wow is comparing apples to oranges.

I don’t think Dusk understands what people are asking for here. We’re not asking for a whole new continent and a bunch of dungeons, people want the existing content to be tweaked and be more fulfilling.

A lot of people don’t venture too far outside those 3 defense DEs in cursed shore because most events don’t show up on the map, you don’t want to wade through 100 risen purifiers only to find absolutely nothing. Another problem is that there’s not much reason to do some of the less popular events; you could kill the risen king or the champion shark and get the same exact rewards you get for defending the camps.

Saying, just go pvp at 80 and you’ll have fun is a cop out. I play 2 hrs a night and I’m level 60. I figure I’ll hit 80 in a week or two. So that’s a around 1 month to hit max level…kind a sad if you ask me. Yes, I’ll try the dungeons, but knowing what I know now, there is no way in hell I’ll be running dungeons 50 times for some gear that’s not really any better than stuff I can buy…just a different skin. A new skin is NOT worth the time to do it, sorry.

There is no excuse. They made leveling much too fast.

Josher.9612:

Saying, just go pvp at 80 and you’ll have fun is a cop out. I play 2 hrs a night and I’m level 60. I figure I’ll hit 80 in a week or two. So that’s a around 1 month to hit max level…kind a sad if you ask me. Yes, I’ll try the dungeons, but knowing what I know now, there is no way in hell I’ll be running dungeons 50 times for some gear that’s not really any better than stuff I can buy…just a different skin. A new skin is NOT worth the time to do it, sorry.

There is no excuse. They made leveling much too fast.

Max level is not the ultimate goal of the game. It really isn’t.

I’m not saying that you’re playing wrong or that rushing to level 80 is playing wrong. What I’m saying is that if your only goals in GW2 was to get to 80 and have max armor, you’ll be playing this for a short time.

My personal goal is to first max all crafts, then become a guild officer and offer armor crafting services for free up to level 50 for guildies and then just the cost of mats afterwards. After that, I want to max all titles at a rate of 1 every 1-2 months.

Because of these goals, my experience will last many months.

Apparently, rabid fanboys like DusK don’t find the actual game as immersive as the forums – seeing how often you find people like him posting their non-constructive ad-hominem here. So I guess even the fanboys have admitted to themselves, deep in their hearts, that this game really doesn’t have that much to offer you once you’ve reached 80.

Either that, or fanboys just have too much time on their hands.

PvP is the point and focus of this game no matter how much PvE content there is.The sooner you understand that the better off you will be.