(edited by Brutaly.6257)
Why have Mantras 6% impact of a shout?
All this comparing Mantra’s to shouts in terms of reach (cone vs radius) has to be getting old… They are 2 different type of skills, stop comparing them like that. Mantra effects can be applied more frequently and are generally stronger.
I agree, and much will with you that the range of the cone could do with a buff, but it should never ever become anywhere close to the radius of shouts (in their current power level).
(edited by Skuzz.6580)
i like the idea of the firebrand being a frontline support, which explains the short range of his mantras, but the way mantras work is kind of contrary to a frontliner.
close range/ frontline: you have to stay close to your allies. next to, or even in front of them
mantras only directed forward: you have to stand behind your allies.
see the problem?
so ANet has to either change the firebrand so he works as a backline support, or change mantras AoE to a 300 range circle. i’d prefer the latter.
(edited by Hyrai.8720)
I could see Firebrand with Tomes and Mantras supporting allies from behind. Only, then the Axe is pointless. If you, however, stick with Axe, you probably need to avoid Mantras (and Tomes).
Which is sad, because I liked the class in preview weekend.
I could see Firebrand with Tomes and Mantras supporting allies from behind. Only then, the Axe is pointless. If you however, stick with Axe, you probably need to avoid Mantras (and Tomes).
They can support allies easily so long as the firebrand moves to behind the enemy that they’re fighting. You don’t all have to on the same side of the mob, after all. Close range, melee support.
I could see Firebrand with Tomes and Mantras supporting allies from behind. Only then, the Axe is pointless. If you however, stick with Axe, you probably need to avoid Mantras (and Tomes).
They can support allies easily so long as the firebrand moves to behind the enemy that they’re fighting. You don’t all have to on the same side of the mob, after all. Close range, melee support.
Not only that but what people seem to forget is that there is no harm in just facing away for split second (maybe missing 1 sec on your chain) to get your mantra off, or better yet, ever tryed not standing dead center on a mob and attacking? works perfectly fine, cleave attacks are a cone themselves so there is no need to stand in the middle of a mob facing the mob directly
having to face away from the mob towards your allies is a huge harm in terms of gameplay/flow. just saying.
imagine playing shattered observatory, where you already have to face away from the boss every now and then. and additionally face away from the boss everytime you use a mantra. when are you actually gonna fight it, if you’re busy spinning around like a beyblade?
also, what you seem to forget is that currently the firebrand axe 1 range is shorter than most other melee 1s. So even if you’re not standing dead center on a mob, you will still most likely stand closer to it than the rest of your group.
(edited by Hyrai.8720)
having to face away from the mob towards your allies is a huge harm in terms of gameplay/flow. just saying.
imagine playing shattered observatory, where you already have to face away from the boss every now and then. and additionally face away from the boss everytime you use a mantra. when are you actually gonna fight it, if you’re busy spinning around like a beyblade?also, what you seem to forget is that currently the firebrand axe 1 range is shorter than most other melee 1s. So even if you’re not standing dead center on a mob, you will still most likely stand closer to it than the rest of your group.
I’d be happier if it was a 180 degree cone but why would you all stand in front of the boss? Having your entire group get caught in cleave damage is no fun. Split up so you fight it from different directions then you’ll be able to catch other players in your support.
Also 130 is standard melee range. A quick wiki search shows that most melee weapons use that range.
I could see Firebrand with Tomes and Mantras supporting allies from behind. Only then, the Axe is pointless. If you however, stick with Axe, you probably need to avoid Mantras (and Tomes).
They can support allies easily so long as the firebrand moves to behind the enemy that they’re fighting. You don’t all have to on the same side of the mob, after all. Close range, melee support.
Not only that but what people seem to forget is that there is no harm in just facing away for split second (maybe missing 1 sec on your chain) to get your mantra off, or better yet, ever tryed not standing dead center on a mob and attacking? works perfectly fine, cleave attacks are a cone themselves so there is no need to stand in the middle of a mob facing the mob directly
I am no expert in combat but I’m pretty sure that turning your back to enemy is one of the stupidest things you can do on the battlefield.
(edited by eBeco.7612)
Not only that but what people seem to forget is that there is no harm in just facing away for split second (maybe missing 1 sec on your chain) to get your mantra off, or better yet, ever tryed not standing dead center on a mob and attacking? works perfectly fine, cleave attacks are a cone themselves so there is no need to stand in the middle of a mob facing the mob directly
I think we are talking about completely different gamemodes. I meant in WvW group vs group fight, you probably have some sort of fractal/raid boss in mind. In WvW frontline guardian facing away from enemy group to cast something on your allies means you die. Instantly.
All this comparing Mantra’s to shouts in terms of reach (cone vs radius) has to be getting old… They are 2 different type of skills, stop comparing them like that. Mantra effects can be applied more frequently and are generally stronger.
I agree, and much will with you that the range of the cone could do with a buff, but it should never ever become anywhere close to the radius of shouts (in their current power level).
no they are not stronger since the two main shouts we are talking about trigger quickness in a huge radius two are stun breakers and one clears the allies from condis. All of them can also remove two condis in a 600 radius per use if traited. The last one also gives protection which is a boon FB lacks. Add in 100% uptime on swiftness to that which FB has to blow the tomes to get.
Very few fb builds will be played with mantras at all, they are weak compared to other utilities.
Dont even compare the impact of shouts compared to mantras, it can even be argued that mantras are weaker then shouts even with 600 radius.
It isnt cone versus radius as you put it.
It is that the mantras with the small area of effect (6% of a shout) isnt worth using as a support tool other in a very stationary pve scenario.
I think they should be cones and the fact is that a 90 degree 600 range cone has the same area of effect as 360 degree 300 ranged spell.
Sure you get one more boon out over 2 seconds if you use them three times compared to a shout that gives two boons instant.
Does that warrant that a shout has 1661% larger area of effect?
SyG and Retreat are better to use in a mantra build then any mantra a FB has. Guaranteed 6 stacks of quickness in a 600 radius. This is the issue, why use mantras when shouts is better support in a FB build!
What we need to compare is the impact in the battlefield and if we do that comparison mantras are far behind shouts, even if we make the cone 1200 range and 90 degrees. If we made them that they would have the same area of effect as shouts but still with the restriction of a cone that needs to be positioned.
(edited by Brutaly.6257)
mantras isnt a frontline support in design, its infact midrange. If its frontline support that is intended shouts are better, on a mantra build.
Mantras has to be the most selfish tools a guardian/memser can use in wvw/pvp in its current iteration.
(edited by Brutaly.6257)