Guild Wars 2

The OP is one of the most complimentary posts I have seen. Pretty much everything listed is actually what Anet set out to achieve. Clearly it has succeeded!

The OP was curious as to why this game is unlike the kind he is use to and listed what he was use to seeing in MMOs.

If all you played was MMOs with full time PvP or at least dueling, hyper-competitiveness for limited resources such as mat nodes and critters and suddenly play a game where none of that exists, you would be scratching your head as well.

Yeah I’ve done my time in hard core mmos. I kinda want to relax now and not have to worry to much about treadmills and the like, feel like I moved to a semi retired state. I personally like more co-op style of guildwars 2 and in pvp I prefer everyone be on the same gear level. Harder to get the, you only killed me cause my gear sucks wah wah wah.

Dueling, I’ve always turned it off cause I found it more annoying then anything else. Nothing but an ego stroke at the end of the day I need my carrot on a stick yo.

Think the only thing I truly miss was from WoW with a 40 man raid. Open world just doesn’t feel the same.

That’s what guild wars was founded on. If you don’t like it then this isn’t the game for you.

uhohhotdog.3598:

That’s what guild wars was founded on. If you don’t like it then this isn’t the game for you.

That’s what I recall they were saying on GW2 pre-release. Although I do like the release state more than the current after all the easy mode reiteration on pve. “it’s too haaard” “oh we’ll fix that for ya”. Honestly, a little more character, please. It’s been bleeding pretty awful…

Khandarus.2738:

Yeah I’ve done my time in hard core mmos. I kinda want to relax now and not have to worry to much about treadmills and the like, feel like I moved to a semi retired state. I personally like more co-op style of guildwars 2 and in pvp I prefer everyone be on the same gear level. Harder to get the, you only killed me cause my gear sucks wah wah wah.

Dueling, I’ve always turned it off cause I found it more annoying then anything else. Nothing but an ego stroke at the end of the day I need my carrot on a stick yo.

Think the only thing I truly miss was from WoW with a 40 man raid. Open world just doesn’t feel the same.

Isnt it funny how the MMO players have aged with the genre? Ive spoken to plenty of people, and of course myself, that feel the same. Hardcore MMOs were a blast back in the day, I could game all day and night. I still recall those days fondly but in reality, just cant do it anymore, which is why I love this game (though, a bit more tougher pve and instanced content would be nice.) I played Archeage its first few months, and while I had a lot of fun for a while, just not something I can maintain anymore, so I came back here. I love how easy that is to do in this, and even if I play another MMO in the future I know Ive always got this one! I guess it was kind of proof of owning a pair of ruby-tinted glasses.

Katalos, I noticed that most of your comments are trying to “dig up” facts if GW2 that support the vision of your perfect game as you described in the op (I know you didn’t used this words, but lets be honest to each other: you did mention things you would like to see in GW2 and that are not there). I’m sorry to be the one to say it like this (despite many others that already said this in a nicer way): what you want to find in this game is NOT there. It is NOT what your looking for and it wont ever be. This game was desugned to get rid of the potencial toxic-generation playstyle that all other MMOs use. If you like that style all I can say to you is good luck on playing WOW, where you are as good as your credit card and where you get happines from other’s misery. That’s how things are. Do not pretend that other MMOs with gear gap offer challenging content that requires real skill because they don’t. They require good gear and thats all. While this is also true for pve content of GW2, the story changes completely when it comes to sPvP. Now, again, if you prefer the toxic playstyle offered by other games you WONT find it here because Anet – and how I love them for this – took it away.

P.S.: have you ever tried League of Legends? Despite being a MOBA it checks everything you seem to like in a game. Also notice that it has the worst and most disgusting community I ever met and I do wish I never meet another similar to that.

Lindelle.3718:

Isnt it funny how the MMO players have aged with the genre? Ive spoken to plenty of people, and of course myself, that feel the same. Hardcore MMOs were a blast back in the day, I could game all day and night. I still recall those days fondly but in reality, just cant do it anymore, which is why I love this game (though, a bit more tougher pve and instanced content would be nice.) I played Archeage its first few months, and while I had a lot of fun for a while, just not something I can maintain anymore, so I came back here. I love how easy that is to do in this, and even if I play another MMO in the future I know Ive always got this one! I guess it was kind of proof of owning a pair of ruby-tinted glasses.

Hmm? no idea what you are talking about. Back in the day, early EQ etc, I was the raid leader for my guild (played UO too where I was the events officer for 3rd largest ranked guild, global, first three years). We had people in the 20’s, 30’s, 40’s, 50’s and even 60’s. Maybe even 70’s, but that generation was more modest (much like my parents were). Many of these players came from MUDs, pure massively multiplayer online role-play game experience. I think it’s more a generational thing, and why so may genX’ers, baby boombers and wwii gens dog on millennials /shrugs (I like some). And sadly, RMT item shops target them and revolve game development on how they can pull millennials into spending tons of cash (and they DO!) cha-ching. [Repent, the end is nigh].

Not all of course, like in this other mmo I play, Mills show to be able to be truly hard-core. I’m just a genX ‘core’ player myself. I really believe it’s generational though, much study into mmo development (and practiced on the indie side) and studying the uhh AAA marketing side of mmo’s. It can be truly diabolical. We old folk play just as much, just maybe not your games. Like lol? what’s that…? hah

Daywolf.2630:

Lindelle.3718:

Isnt it funny how the MMO players have aged with the genre? Ive spoken to plenty of people, and of course myself, that feel the same. Hardcore MMOs were a blast back in the day, I could game all day and night. I still recall those days fondly but in reality, just cant do it anymore, which is why I love this game (though, a bit more tougher pve and instanced content would be nice.) I played Archeage its first few months, and while I had a lot of fun for a while, just not something I can maintain anymore, so I came back here. I love how easy that is to do in this, and even if I play another MMO in the future I know Ive always got this one! I guess it was kind of proof of owning a pair of ruby-tinted glasses.

Hmm? no idea what you are talking about. Back in the day, early EQ etc, I was the raid leader for my guild (played UO too where I was the events officer for 3rd largest ranked guild, global, first three years). We had people in the 20’s, 30’s, 40’s, 50’s and even 60’s. Maybe even 70’s, but that generation was more modest (much like my parents were). Many of these players came from MUDs, pure massively multiplayer online role-play game experience. I think it’s more a generational thing, and why so may genX’ers, baby boombers and wwii gens dog on millennials /shrugs (I like some). And sadly, RMT item shops target them and revolve game development on how they can pull millennials into spending tons of cash (and they DO!) cha-ching. [Repent, the end is nigh].

Not all of course, like in this other mmo I play, Mills show to be able to be truly hard-core. I’m just a genX ‘core’ player myself. I really believe it’s generational though, much study into mmo development (and practiced on the indie side) and studying the uhh AAA marketing side of mmo’s. It can be truly diabolical. We old folk play just as much, just maybe not your games. Like lol? what’s that…? hah

I don’t think it’s a generational thing at all. I was one of the people who, though older, would have played the hell out of that hard core stuff back then. I could even see myself doing that sort of thing now. No, I don’t believe the difference is in generation.

I think the difference is in the sheer number of people playing. Back in the old days of UO and EQ, those games were very very niche. Only a tiny percentage of people back then would have identified themselves as MMO players. When you have a small niche like that you tend to capture the most dedicated people, because it’s harder to find, harder to get into and anyone who stayed long enough to get into it, was almost hard core just by being there.

As you increase the circle of people joining, as you remove the barriers to entry (which is better for business) you invite players that don’t have as much vested. It’s the same in the publishing industry.

When I started writing, the publishing industry was print only. You had to submit manuscripts through mail. There was nothing to speak of online and there was really no epublishing. The authors back then were hard core. You sort of had to be to get published. You’d have to sit through hundreds of rejection slips, wait forever to hear back and just keep writing and hoping.

Today, with the advent of epublishing, the entry to the industry is very easy. It’s cheap to set up an epublisher, you almost need no money to do it. You need very little money to publish someone’s book, so you can risk more on books that are less likely to sell or sell to a smaller niche. You even can open a publishing company if you know nothing about writing or publishing. The writers today are more spoiled, less hard core, and think they’re published, even if they’re published by someone who’ll literally publish anything.

It’s not really a generational change, so much as a situational one. The games were dumbed down to attract more people and when they did, it’s logical those people would be less vested. They didn’t have to go through what you did to hit max level or be successful in the game.

Vayne.8563:

It’s not really a generational change, so much as a situational one. .

eh not really, industry leading periodicals published on gamasutra and such linked/supported GDC sites for many years on marketing practices (monetization) pretty much favor targeting millinials for RMT. Pretty much since cartoony WoW, most every drop of development has revolved around milking them specifically for their easy money /emote evil grin. Duh? Like… what eeverrrr… /emote roles eyes.

Katalos.5038:

There aren’t arguments between players and there aren’t big guilds fighting against each others.

Good riddance!

Not trying to jest at your expense, don’t misunderstand me, but the reason I and many of my friends originally gave the game a try and now came back to it is because it’s so peaceful. It was built on the idea of cooperation instead of competition. What you’re suggesting would turn this into yet another one of those MMOs where people are encouraged by the game’s design itself to resent each other.

Daywolf.2630:

Vayne.8563:

It’s not really a generational change, so much as a situational one. .

eh not really, industry leading periodicals published on gamasutra and such linked/supported GDC sites for many years on marketing practices (monetization) pretty much favor targeting millinials for RMT. Pretty much since cartoony WoW, most every drop of development has revolved around milking them specifically for their easy money /emote evil grin. Duh? Like… what eeverrrr… /emote roles eyes.

Really doesn’t change what I said. That it to say, they’re targeting the millennials because they now play. They probably weren’t, wouldn’t have been playing, at least not enough of them, if the industry hadn’t changed in the first place. It’s a chicken and egg thing.

When it was a very niche market, there was less point in milking it. There were already too many barriers to entry.

I can totally agree with OP that in some aspects GW2 is too tame, but that does not include KSing because that’s bull kitten mechanic. For me the biggest gripe that there’s too much civilization! Everywhere I go there’s some outpost or a small town or a big city. It’s very hard to lose yourself into wilderness and feel in danger when every five paces there’s a house or a WP.

Hopefully some of these problems will be rectified with the expansion like GvG and more wilderness.

Mate… Go wvw if you want pk, gvg, train, world channel. Im over 142k kills (only, because 1.5 years single target focusing)

Sounds like this person needs to go play EVE online, where scamming is allowed and encouraged (GMs give new players tutorials on it), stealing of ALL kinds is allowed gameplay, and ganking is called ’emergent content. No safe places anywhere. Exactly as requested.

Of course, this does mean that you have to pass an NSA security check before you are allowed to join a corporation on probation, and that people (apart from the scammers) generally don’t even speak up in chat, but hey…

Let me get this straight OP, you want to create a toxic community with ganking, arguing and kill stealing? The main reasons people favour this game over others, is due to the peaceful setting, the chilled out play style and the friendly community (most of the time). If your idea of entertainment is watching people argue in ‘world chat’, I suggest you go troll some forums…oh wait.

Katalos.5038:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Every guild should have access to their own hall. It will likely be easier for larger guilds to achieve the complete building of their hall than it would be for a smaller guild. However, from my understanding, the general thought in the CDI was that all guilds should have access to halls. This is how it was in GW1 as well. Even the smallest guild could eventually achieve a maxed out hall if they desired to work towards it, and I feel that’s as it should be.

Can the Guild Hall attacked by opponent guilds in GW1?

No, GvG was queued for just like an other pvp match. There was no free for all combat in GW1, just like there is no free for all combat in GW2.

Belzebu.3912:

EDIT: Guild Hall in GW1 was more of a place for the guild to meet, it didn’t have any real game mechanic attached to it.

GvG was the game mechanic attached to it. The GH maps were the maps that were used in the instances for the GvG battles, and the queue for which was accessed from Hall (along with any NPC allies you needed to fill out your team).

Daywolf.2630:

I think it’s more a generational thing, and why so may genX’ers, baby boombers and wwii gens dog on millennials /shrugs (I like some). And sadly, RMT item shops target them and revolve game development on how they can pull millennials into spending tons of cash (and they DO!) cha-ching. [Repent, the end is nigh].

This is partially true but not completely millennials fault. As a older millennial, I grew up playing games like UO(tail end really), EQ1/EQ2, Eve Online, WoW(initial release wasn’t as bad as it is now). Having a game that is more about the progression/effects then the reward was always more interesting. However saying that, many millennials especially the younger ones, really have only grown up around instant gratification or cash shop style games.

One could say the market created this mentality, however personally I blame developers, mainly around the beginning of DLCs. They created the atmosphere of easy access at a lower cost. This allows for Devs to make games at a cheaper cost while milking every dime they can through cash shops. Not to mention with the prolificacy of F2Ps it isn’t really a surprise that players jump around games. Most studios don’t want to check the norm and only make easy access games. GW2 for example is the epitome of theme park games.

No risk, no gates, no loss, yet people wonder why they get bored.

So ANet solved all the main conflict points that cause immeasurably hostile communities, and you don’t like that?

I’m confused

Belzebu.3912:

Katalos.5038:

So KS is not often used here? I am sorry that I used it assuming it is understandable.

Since KS simply doesn’t exist here, no one uses it, the people that know that therm are the ones that have experience with other MMOs.

Katalos.5038:

I did not play GW1 so I can’t say much. 8v8 or 10v10 in instances or open world?

In GW1, GvG was 8v8 in an instanced area.

It’s been a while since I stepped foot in another game where I had to worry about it, I had to Google KS and it came up with a few pages of Kansas. “Why is there no Kansas in this game?” I thought to myself, before realising I probably hadn’t found the contextual definition yet.

I’m glad there’s no kill stealing, loot stealing, node stealing. I’ve played those games and didn’t enjoy that tedious aspect. It’s a big draw as to why GW2 keeps my attention.

Halan.7931:

It looks like you want to play Lineage2, with PKs, clan wars, trash-talking, mob training and so on.

Yeah .. Lineage 2, AION .. or something like that where you can gank and grief
low level players with your top tier equipped high level chars.

Please leave this game alone .. i left AION in disgust about all the ganking and i have
very bad memories of beeing KS’d all the time from china farmers in Lineage 2.

If you really want that crap .. go there .. but leave GW2 alone.

sPvP has balanced gear because its "S"PvP… Structured, intended to be balanced.

Kinda funny that I like GW2 for all the reasons you think it’s boring.
If I wanted open world PvP, I’d go back to WoW and get repeatedly killed by some kitten 40 levels above me that’s intent on being as irritating as possible.

Though, I admit it was satisfying when we put out a world-wide call for help, and they arrived 5 minutes later on cavalry and ran those horde kittens out of darkwood, that was great.

Weylin.6478:

sPvP has balanced gear because its "S"PvP… Structured, intended to be balanced.

Kinda funny that I like GW2 for all the reasons you think it’s boring.
If I wanted open world PvP, I’d go back to WoW and get repeatedly killed by some kitten 40 levels above me that’s intent on being as irritating as possible.

Though, I admit it was satisfying when we put out a world-wide call for help, and they arrived 5 minutes later on cavalry and ran those horde kittens out of darkwood, that was great.

+1. If you want to get ganked in a open world map, go roam as upscaled in WvW.

Also i LOVE there is no such thing as kill steal in this game. Makes it a more friendly MMO then others where there is kill steal around.

Edit: to answer the topics title, to create a friendly atmosphere/player base and anet succeeds on that matter.

Archeage is right up your alley OP. The only peaceful places you can find are the non-war zones (which are minimal) and zones that get peace for 1 hour.

Outside of that you can get killed by the enemy faction, your own faction and NPCs who are all out to steal your hard-earned trade items, which are typically the only way to effectively make gold in the game. They can steal your boat, your tractor, your car and kill your donkey/mount if they feel so inclined. The only way to ensure you get ahead is buying land to farm on, and even then you compete with players for limited space, and once you have land you have to pay taxes or lose it, which you can buy with gold (which fuels the murder merry-go-round as stated).

You might as well call it ’Don’t Trust Anyone – The Game’. And unsurprisingly it has the most vile and vitriol spewing community I’ve ever had the pleasure of seeing.

I enjoy GW2 because it encourages players to work together. If I get downed in a fight in the open world, I can be assured that often players will risk life and limb to bring me back so I can return the favor. Heck NPCs do it too. It is just the kind of game it is.

Yeah, from what I have read, it seems that the idea of a less hostile community in an MMO is foreign to you.Yeah, I do agree that Anet’s design for GW2 is more on the protective side, but that’s their design in that they wish to encourage players working together without the occasional kitten ganking someone. Not every MMO has to adhere to a design format.

When it comes to GvGs, the closest that comes to mind are tournaments made by the players themselves in that guilds from different servers would fight against each other in the Obsidian Sanctum. So taking part in such matches would all boil down to forming up your own guild and interacting with others to organize fights.

When it comes to easy levelling, yeah no arguments there. Though before the September patch, the levelling process is significantly faster. At least, last I remembered.

As for open-world PvP, look no further than joining the Battle for the Mists.

The game you seem to prefer is not GW2 and never will be. THANK GOD.

Those things you criticize are the very things that make GW2 a breath of fresh air in this genre. And it has nothing to do with being “easy.” Anet definitely could put in more challenging content for players. That’s something many are asking for and will hopefully be addressed in HoT. But they can still do this AND still have these systems you describe that promote community instead of creating a toxic environment where the last thing you want to see is another player.

And treadmill PVP sucks. But I suppose if you are a ganker than you obviously dislike having a level playing field. But this isn’t the game for gankers really.

It’s not so much a problem with the OP’s view of things, as it is that his post is really quite typical of the way a certain type of “hardcore” MMO player has viewed GW2 since it went live. The fundamental issue here is that those players have a misunderstanding of ArenaNet’s core intentions and design philosophies regarding GW2. ANet went into the project from the get-go with the intention of creating a PvE environment based on cooperation, not competition, and they built the PvE game to foster an environment where players would work together instead of against each other. That’s why you have such things as rewards (XP’s) for reviving downed or dead players, loot drops set up so as to give every player involved in the kill of an enemy a chance to get a drop (and guaranteed drops with champions and world bosses), the dynamic event system which is intended to attract any and all players in the vicinity to complete said event for rewards, resource nodes available equally to all players with the appropriate gathering tools, etc. That, in turn, is why you will never, ever see open-world PvP or kill/node stealing in GW2’s PvE, because putting those in there would run completely counter to ANet’s “cooperation, not competition” design philosophy for GW2’s PvE.

While I don’t agree with all of the specific points the OP makes I still partially agree with his opinion in general. I don’t consider myself a “Hard Core player” but I do like a challenge and I love to see competition for clearing content going on actively on map chats and so on.

Like the OP I’ve played many other MMO’s mostly FFXI, FFXIV and Wildstar. While there is definitely a lot of good differences in GW2 vs the other MMO’s that I really love there is a point where trying to be too different becomes alienating to the existing MMO rpg player.

The community in general has this hostile carebear attitude which to me personally is worse than dealing with “ELITIST” (hate this term but w/e) kittens. Any dissenting opinions about the current low difficulty of the game are met with “this is a different game and maybe it isn’t the game for you” which is fairly hostile in a passive aggressive way. I honestly don’t even understand the argument against trash talking, I see it as a common human response to competition and it adds to the fun. The game has plenty of mechanics built in to protect your sensibilities if you aren’t into this.. close the chat box or block the players. A normal adult in everyday life would simply walk away from a conversation they don’t want to be a part of not stand there and try to force everyone to act the way they expect them too.

While the game in general is very well made and is fun to play, it still lacks excitement and challenge. I haven’t gotten that feeling I got from playing a Extreme Primal fight in FFXIV, heart racing, extreme focus and situational awareness followed by either by disappointment (dying and failing the fight) or a feeling of reward knowing you just cleared a difficult fight and get rewarded for it. In fact the rewards are pretty “meh”, I cleared a few jumping puzzles which can be a kittenallenging expecting a good reward.. Instead I clear it and get some crappy gear and crafting items. In the end it’s not worth it and no one in game will even cares you did it.

Which bring me to the social aspect of this game that is really lacking “bragging rights” and no it’s not a negative term it’s something you do with your friends and we all do it. (cue the gear post spam) It’s NORMAL and it’s fun to feel like, at least in game, your “work” is rewarded with at the very least some recognition. However the game effectively negates this by simply making it too easy to get anything worth getting and giving you nothing from completing some of the more difficult parts of the game. (The very few difficult parts).

Difficulty in this game is either grind gated (fractals getting agony infusions) or presented in a very pointless way of making the mobs hit harder. There is no strategic challenges no “teamwork” other than stacking and world events (even world events don’t seem like teamwork). In ways the game does feel like a single player RPG with just other people running around you.

I’m sure many of you will pick apart my arguments with the same old lines I’ve already read. “Well there is strategy, I never stack!” but I find that hard to believe because I’ve yet to see it. Some people in the community like this game so much that no matter what turn the game takes they will defend it aggressively, which is counter productive to the progress of this game (if there is to be any). There is a saying in Spanish that roughly translates to “.. You can loves something so much and hold on to it so tightly that you will eventually squeeze it’s eyes out.” and I think that applies here.

The OP has a valid argument in a sense that the game is too easy, Anet is catering to a group of “yes men”/players that simply have no experience in the MMO genre. Anet as a result Anet is slowly sucking the fun, challenge and reward out of the game. I love the leveling system of doing world events but it’s so short lived because of things like Tomes (rare candy anyone?). I myself am new to this game (2 months in) I have one level 80 and I really enjoyed getting to 80 (theif) but now I also have a level 35 ele and I haven’t even put 30 minutes of play time into it because of Tomes. I have a love/hate thing for tomes for one they are useful because I can level a job fast, on the other hand I missed out on the learning the job as I level thru exploration. However I would love to see Tomes and items like this removed all together.

I’m glad we don’t have any of the things you seem to ‘miss’ or are pointing out as observation

Katalos.5038:

• No GvG

A lot of people are asking the same question. GvG arena would be nice.

Katalos.5038:

• Easy leveling

Side effect of this fancy “horizontal progression”. Was good in theory but meh in practice.

Katalos.5038:

• No world channel

World channel will definitely not work well with megaservers but I would loooooooove to see custom made channels. Like linkshells in ff14.

The game is generally targetting casuals. Over the years, MMORPG has always been targetting the semi-hardcore and hardcore but there are games which have proven that semi-casual can be relatively much larger market so I believe that’s what make anet plan the game to be.

Yes, I can understand the lack of conflicts do make the game stale, the guild becoming less important and seems to be more like a service provider instead of the usual awesome sense of achievement and belonging in other MMORPG when your guild manage to accomplish something or do something for you.

Generally is more carebear, less attached but this attract the larger market compare to the less carebear but more attached way of MMORPG.

maybe you should try playing some wvw, i getting 3-5 angry whispers daily while roaming with my thief, the hate is real there

oh and you can ks, well sorta, if someone taking a camp and you get there intime to kill him and take the camp yourself you are sure to get an angry whisper, most of the time

From the sound of it, the OP was listing the standard things found in Asian MMOs and is confused as to why they aren’t found at all here. Even the 800 lbs NA made WoW has some of these things but of course WoW was created in a time where that was expected in a subscription MMO refined from the EQ model.

ArenaNet looked at all those things and wisely saw that those features were excluding potential players and they wanted an inclusive game. That would likely mean larger box sales and a larger player base to drive the cash shop. Of course this disenfranchised to a degree the hardcore GW players, who were all that was left playing GWs.

Also over the last 15 years, MMO players have grown older, have families and family responsibilities and have less and less time to play. This makes a casual MMO like GW2 attractive.

All the points that OP listed is actually what makes GW2 good.
I do not think GW2 is for OP.

Jourgound Meister.8561:

The community in general has this hostile carebear attitude which to me personally is worse than dealing with “ELITIST” (hate this term but w/e) kittens. Any dissenting opinions about the current low difficulty of the game are met with “this is a different game and maybe it isn’t the game for you” which is fairly hostile in a passive aggressive way. I honestly don’t even understand the argument against trash talking, I see it as a common human response to competition and it adds to the fun. The game has plenty of mechanics built in to protect your sensibilities if you aren’t into this.. close the chat box or block the players. A normal adult in everyday life would simply walk away from a conversation they don’t want to be a part of not stand there and try to force everyone to act the way they expect them too.

Acutally, a normal adult in everyday life would avoid this kind of trash talking altogether, and that’s what ANET did with GW2 thankfully. And do notice that the community is not being passive agressive since the point: there’s hundreds upon hundreds of MMOs out there that work just like the OP wants, but he/she comes to the single one that isn’t and say it should be like the others. Pls, tell me how the community is wrong here?

Tevatron.8217:

Acutally, a normal adult in everyday life would avoid this kind of trash talking altogether, and that’s what ANET did with GW2 thankfully. And do notice that the community is not being passive agressive since the point: there’s hundreds upon hundreds of MMOs out there that work just like the OP wants, but he/she comes to the single one that isn’t and say it should be like the others. Pls, tell me how the community is wrong here?

You do realize that trash talking is a normal thing. You see it when sports fans of differing teams talk, you see it when ppl play board games. It’s not a new thing an adult is someone who has the capacity to handle a situation a child wouldn’t. An adult should understand that these situations happen, exists and are normal human behavior and instead of standing there shutting your eyes and covering your ears like a child you can, a choose ignore it, not participate or leave the area of the conversation.

To answer your question, the way you just phrased it is basically dismissive of a differing opinion, your response is simply “go away and play another game” if this community is so “inclusive” this shouldn’t be an issue. Unlike you I believe there is a place for both Casual player and Hardcore players to coexist and have fun because I believe in “inclusiveness” not creating a polar opposite game.

I like this game because the system Anet has created can be conducive to both types of players if they simply ease up on this idea of a “participation diploma” that we use to make children not feel bad for losing. I agree with a lot of the improvement they have done like no kill stealing, shared loot trust me only the most extreme HC players oppose this and they are a very very small minority. What I oppose as someone already put it is this “No risk, no gates, no loss, yet people wonder why they get bored.”.

When you read around the forums you notice players want less risk, less gates and more for less work. This is the carebear attitude you want everything upfront with no effort, you consider playing running around pushing a button without a goal or purpose and I consider that boring. One example of this is how the community will defend someone who is basically circumventing the point of the game by having a Mesmer warp him to end of a puzzle instead of doing the puzzle himself. I remember the argument was “why do you care how someone plays the game?” if you skip a whole part of the game is that considered playing the game? Should Anet allow this? I don’t think they should, but it doesn’t seem to matter because the rewards of that puzzle are terrible anyway.. Which becomes a circular argument, you can not play the game, get things, which are worthless anyway, and everyone is ok with that? For the most part it seems the community is.

Jourgound Meister.8561:

You do realize that trash talking is a normal thing. You see it when sports fans of differing teams talk, you see it when ppl play board games. It’s not a new thing an adult is someone who has the capacity to handle a situation a child wouldn’t. An adult should understand that these situations happen, exists and are normal human behavior and instead of standing there shutting your eyes and covering your ears like a child you can, a choose ignore it, not participate or leave the area of the conversation. To answer your question, the way you just phrased it is basically dismissive of a differing opinion, your response is simply “go away and play another game” if this community is so “inclusive” this shouldn’t be an issue. Unlike you I believe there is a place for both Casual player and Hardcore players to coexist and have fun because I believe in “inclusiveness” not creating a polar opposite game.

I don’t get your point of “hardcore” player. So a hardcore player is the one that talk trash in open world after something he doesn’t like happens? And that is not childish? Or is the one who runs multiple dungeons with friends for hours? If it’s the first I am happy that there isn’t such a thing in GW2, and if it is the second there’s plenty of those in GW2. Also, the sPVP and WvW offers challenging content. I play MMOs for over 10 years now, I played many titles from many companys, all of those were exactly like the OP described. You know what happened to them? I don’t even have to say it because you already know.
The point stands. The player base of GW2 like the way this game was designed. They like it peaceful, and the cooperative style of play, so why would ANET change it? You don’t need trash talk in a game. Games are supposed to bring fun, not hatred. I wouldn’t spend my free time with something that brings hatefulness to my life. It’s just not a smart thing to do. Why do you think GW2 is not competitive? What about sPVP? What about WvW? Isn’t that enough competition? Why do you think it doesn’t allow “hardcore” players? What IS a hardcore player to you? Why the game has to allow you to kill random ppl in open world to make them trash talk back to you? HOW is this a positive and a good thing anyone would like to see? It happens IRL? OH! Suprise! This is a game: people play it because they want more then real life, otherwise they would probably be riding. And don’t forget, when things like that happens in real life, we are pretty much talking about crimes.

Breathe there Teva.

Jourgound Meister.8561:

Tevatron.8217:

Acutally, a normal adult in everyday life would avoid this kind of trash talking altogether, and that’s what ANET did with GW2 thankfully. And do notice that the community is not being passive agressive since the point: there’s hundreds upon hundreds of MMOs out there that work just like the OP wants, but he/she comes to the single one that isn’t and say it should be like the others. Pls, tell me how the community is wrong here?

You do realize that trash talking is a normal thing. You see it when sports fans of differing teams talk, you see it when ppl play board games. It’s not a new thing an adult is someone who has the capacity to handle a situation a child wouldn’t. An adult should understand that these situations happen, exists and are normal human behavior and instead of standing there shutting your eyes and covering your ears like a child you can, a choose ignore it, not participate or leave the area of the conversation.

Actually, no, trash talking is NOT a normal thing for people playing board games. I’ve been doing the whole board game scene (including war games) since I was 15 or so (I’m 47 now), even helped organize gamer conventions. It’s not appreciated, it WILL get you thrown out of the club or off the premises.

Trash talking is generally also not a normal thing in any environment where men and women mix. Contrary to some beliefs, that includes MMOs.

Trash talking is normal and we should have a thick skin about it? Um, ok. I mean, I do have a thick skin. Through years of MMOing I’ve had people try to insult me, usually hysterically wide of the mark. I recognize the puerile thrashing for what it is, and really, to really sting there has to be some kernel of truth in the insult. I still giggle years later about the person who called me a “fat sow” in one game. Well, they got the gender right … I prefer being nice to people, helping them enjoy life more. I’m no saint, and I don’t always succeed in hiding my frustrations with others, but I do my best to avoid cutting remarks and to compliment even those I despise for the things about them I admire. I apply the same rules to online interactions. I don’t like people being nasty to me or my friends, why would I invite such nastiness by fomenting my own?

The thing is, just because a lot of people are (feline filter words here) to each other, and more so from the perceived anonymity of the internet, doesn’t mean we should put up with it and especially not that we should embrace it. Civilized behavior has to be trained into people, both into individuals and into cultures.

The Golden Rule predates Ancient Greece, though the Greeks made it a common concept. Millennia later, a lot of humans still struggle with it. Hurray for ANet for helping make it less of a struggle.

Behellagh.1468:

Breathe there Teva.

Oh, ty <3. But I am not mad, I am actually trying to understand what they like so much about games that allow the toxic attitude. I see many companys dying to get rid of behaviors like that and they want to bring it here. I just don’t get it.
The problem of the internet is that sometimes what you write doesn’t show what you are really feeling in the moment. Nvm though.

Tevatron.8217:

I don’t get your point of “hardcore” player. So a hardcore player is the one that talk trash in open world after something he doesn’t like happens? And that is not childish? Or is the one who runs multiple dungeons with friends for hours? If it’s the first I am happy that there isn’t such a thing in GW2, and if it is the second there’s plenty of those in GW2. Also, the sPVP and WvW offers challenging content. I play MMOs for over 10 years now, I played many titles from many companys, all of those were exactly like the OP described. You know what happened to them? I don’t even have to say it because you already know.
The point stands. The player base of GW2 like the way this game was designed. They like it peaceful, and the cooperative style of play, so why would ANET change it? You don’t need trash talk in a game. Games are supposed to bring fun, not hatred. I wouldn’t spend my free time with something that brings hatefulness to my life. It’s just not a smart thing to do. Why do you think GW2 is not competitive? What about sPVP? What about WvW? Isn’t that enough competition? Why do you think it doesn’t allow “hardcore” players? What IS a hardcore player to you? Why the game has to allow you to kill random ppl in open world to make them trash talk back to you? HOW is this a positive and a good thing anyone would like to see? It happens IRL? OH! Suprise! This is a game: people play it because they want more then real life, otherwise they would probably be riding. And don’t forget, when things like that happens in real life, we are pretty much talking about crimes.

Hardcore player is someone who likes competition, who plays hours, who likes to complete the game and who enjoys challenging content not necessarily someone who says obscenities for the sake of it. Trash talking is very different from being a troll or being obscene, it’s about friendly rivalry that makes the game fun to play. Now I agree that someone being rude is childish but so are you for being so wound up about it, ignore it let children argue with children (they understand each other). I never said anything in regards to everything else you are stating in fact I agree with you in parts of it.

sPVP is for a hardcore player the ultimate test of his “skills” as it is you don’t have any handicaps or advantages for simply being around longer. This is a point with which I disagree with the OP if he considers himself a HC player this should be something he likes.

I don’t particularly care for PvP and there are hardcore players who never touch it. PVE content can cater to hardcore players by being challenging, requiring real teamwork and rewarding completion with real meaningful items. That wouldn’t change the state of World Events which I find perfect as they are. As a casual player you wouldn’t have to touch hardcore dungeons if you chose not to but HC players would and get rewarded. It’s not that difficult to understand if you get out of this little overprotective bubble. The fact is GW2 offers no competitive PVE content, guilds in this game simply exists for the hell of it. In games like FFXIV guilds have rivalries where they compete on clearing difficult dungeon/raids and grinds first. This gives guilds more meaning and give people a sense of belonging. It actually makes you want to “represent” your guild.

I agree that PVE killing shouldn’t be allowed it’s frustrating and it’s Troll heaven.,. BUT a happy medium is allowing players to accept duel requests. See that’s not hard, if you want to fight go ahead if not then don’t. This is what I mean by being completely dismissive of others ideas. You never even thought of this as a solution, you merely went on a rant of the bad parts of PVE “killing”.

No one is talking about murder here.. it’s a game ultimately. I’m referring to trash talking in real life, please tell me you can make that distinction and not pursue a red herring argument. If you and your friends never trash talk each other in real life, then that’s your perrogative but I find it funny and enjoyable to do so when competing.

Jourgound Meister.8561:

If you and your friends never trash talk each other in real life, then that’s your prerogative but I find it funny and enjoyable to do so when competing.

So, when someone say to you in a game: “choke in your blood and die”, is funny and enjoyable? Well, I guess I am out of here. And if you never heard things like that in a game I am pretty sure you have’nt played enough of them, hahahaha (I would be jealous if that’s the case).

On the guild side of the discussion, I do agree that they could implement something to do with them (after all the game is called GUILD wars), since there’s no real reason to be in a guild except to talk with people.

EDIT: though since HoT is to be released and there’s promising content coming I think we should just wait a bit to see how things go.

Donari.5237:

Trash talking is normal and we should have a thick skin about it? Um, ok. I mean, I do have a thick skin. Through years of MMOing I’ve had people try to insult me, usually hysterically wide of the mark. I recognize the puerile thrashing for what it is, and really, to really sting there has to be some kernel of truth in the insult. I still giggle years later about the person who called me a “fat sow” in one game. Well, they got the gender right … I prefer being nice to people, helping them enjoy life more. I’m no saint, and I don’t always succeed in hiding my frustrations with others, but I do my best to avoid cutting remarks and to compliment even those I despise for the things about them I admire. I apply the same rules to online interactions. I don’t like people being nasty to me or my friends, why would I invite such nastiness by fomenting my own?

The thing is, just because a lot of people are (feline filter words here) to each other, and more so from the perceived anonymity of the internet, doesn’t mean we should put up with it and especially not that we should embrace it. Civilized behavior has to be trained into people, both into individuals and into cultures.

The Golden Rule predates Ancient Greece, though the Greeks made it a common concept. Millennia later, a lot of humans still struggle with it. Hurray for ANet for helping make it less of a struggle.

And everything you just said is great, it shows that you are a mature adult capable of managing his/her emotions. However, a single person anecdote does not a “golden rule” make. Fact is trolls exists for the reasons you stated and, no, I never said you had to put up with it. You have options to handle it you can block, report or close your chat box. Anet shouldn’t be a babysitter for adults playing an online game, their job is to make sure we have the tools and options available to handle it/or not. Personally I find this whole “kitten” thing pretty stupid.. who here hasn’t ever heard a curse word? In game they give us the option to have a profanity filter yet the forums.. now that a different story.

Tevatron.8217:

Behellagh.1468:

Breathe there Teva.

Oh, ty <3. But I am not mad, I am actually trying to understand what they like so much about games that allow the toxic attitude. I see many companys dying to get rid of behaviors like that and they want to bring it here. I just don’t get it.
The problem of the internet is that sometimes what you write doesn’t show what you are really feeling in the moment. Nvm though.

Fast leveling. No KSing. No open PvP or dueling. No race to a mat node when it pops up. No factions. If all you ever played were variations of that then GW2 is a bouncy castle with a ball pit. A level playing field in PvP relying only on skill and not cash bought elite gear? It’ll be tough to wrap your brain around that. It would be …

Tevatron.8217:

Jourgound Meister.8561:

If you and your friends never trash talk each other in real life, then that’s your prerogative but I find it funny and enjoyable to do so when competing.

So, when someone say to you in a game: “choke in your blood and die”, is funny and enjoyable? Well, I guess I am out of here. And if you never heard things like that in a game I am pretty sure you have’nt played enough of them, hahahaha (I would be jealous if that’s the case).

On the guild side of the discussion, I do agree that they could implement something to do with them (after all the game is called GUILD wars), since there’s no real reason to be in a guild except to talk with people.

EDIT: though since HoT is to be released and there’s promising content coming I think we should just wait a bit to see how things go.

I would never say something like that to a friend. However did you report his person? did you block him? did you kick him out of the dungeon (if you where in one) ? You have options, I don’t think that kind of talk is ok but personally I understand the internet and the mentality since I pretty much grew up in it. I know that person is simply saying the most outrageous thing he/she can because well it’s the internet. Question is how much should I allow this person to affect my day? Reporting and blocking takes maybe a minute..

Jourgound Meister.8561:

Tevatron.8217:

Jourgound Meister.8561:

If you and your friends never trash talk each other in real life, then that’s your prerogative but I find it funny and enjoyable to do so when competing.

So, when someone say to you in a game: “choke in your blood and die”, is funny and enjoyable? Well, I guess I am out of here. And if you never heard things like that in a game I am pretty sure you have’nt played enough of them, hahahaha (I would be jealous if that’s the case).

On the guild side of the discussion, I do agree that they could implement something to do with them (after all the game is called GUILD wars), since there’s no real reason to be in a guild except to talk with people.

EDIT: though since HoT is to be released and there’s promising content coming I think we should just wait a bit to see how things go.

I would never say something like that to a friend. However did you report his person? did you block him? did you kick him out of the dungeon (if you where in one) ? You have options, I don’t think that kind of talk is ok but personally I understand the internet and the mentality since I pretty much grew up in it. I know that person is simply saying the most outrageous thing he/she can because well it’s the internet. Question is how much should I allow this person to affect my day? Reporting and blocking takes maybe a minute..

And not reporting and not blocking because that never happened and there’s no need to do that takes no time at all. That’s what ANET managed in this game. That’s why people like it.

Vayne.8563:

Really doesn’t change what I said. That it to say, they’re targeting the millennials because they now play. They probably weren’t, wouldn’t have been playing, at least not enough of them, if the industry hadn’t changed in the first place. It’s a chicken and egg thing.

When it was a very niche market, there was less point in milking it. There were already too many barriers to entry.

uh no, it’s all about RMT item shops and who are most vulnerable, a whole marketing science behind it. I’m not just pulling this stuff out of my butt or whatever, I mentioned where you can research this if you dare (imo it’s bleak), it’s no hidden secret in developer communities. You see, people like me, having had time to develop the part of my brain that manages money effectively, well are not the target. But young impulsive financially-undeveloped people are. In fact kids today are probably more vulnerable than ever, just like illiteracy rate is higher than ever before etc.

But not dogging on anet here, they’re gem store stuff isn’t really geared for instant win spending. All the dirty tricks you mostly find in pure f2p models, often the cartoony sort especially. But what the gem store is geared for here is mostly cosmetic purchases (hence fast leveling in a themepark), although the bl key gambling has been a hot button issue for many, and even rather blatantly as the ui functions like a slot machine. They have played the line, but doesn’t seem to work for them with active players bleeding away, many of those being adults looking for less rmt and more challenge. Something they seem to be trying to address with HoT being a more traditional paid expansion and “more challenging”.

Daywolf.2630:

Vayne.8563:

Really doesn’t change what I said. That it to say, they’re targeting the millennials because they now play. They probably weren’t, wouldn’t have been playing, at least not enough of them, if the industry hadn’t changed in the first place. It’s a chicken and egg thing.

When it was a very niche market, there was less point in milking it. There were already too many barriers to entry.

uh no, it’s all about RMT item shops and who are most vulnerable, a whole marketing science behind it. I’m not just pulling this stuff out of my butt or whatever, I mentioned where you can research this if you dare (imo it’s bleak), it’s no hidden secret in developer communities. You see, people like me, having had time to develop the part of my brain that manages money effectively, well are not the target. But young impulsive financially-undeveloped people are. In fact kids today are probably more vulnerable than ever, just like illiteracy rate is higher than ever before etc.

But not dogging on anet here, they’re gem store stuff isn’t really geared for instant win spending. All the dirty tricks you mostly find in pure f2p models, often the cartoony sort especially. But what the gem store is geared for here is mostly cosmetic purchases (hence fast leveling in a themepark), although the bl key gambling has been a hot button issue for many, and even rather blatantly as the ui functions like a slot machine. They have played the line, but doesn’t seem to work for them with active players bleeding away, many of those being adults looking for less rmt and more challenge. Something they seem to be trying to address with HoT being a more traditional paid expansion and “more challenging”.

South Park did a fun episode on it. GW2 is not really a bad culprit though – I’ve bought everything I’ve ever wanted from the gemstore and only once bought gems with irl money (for extra bag and char slot at launch).

Children who are impulsive should not have parents giving them access to their credit card so freely and adults with no control at least aren’t spending it on booze and hookers.

I would hope GW2 does release more challenging PvE content with HoT too.

I suggest you go to WoW. it would be perfect for you…