Guild Wars 2

For those that don’t know Power/Precision/Vitality/Toughness now start at 1000 stat points everything else starts at 0.

Now that the stats on trait lines have been moved to armor the gulf between Power/Precision/Vitality/Toughness and everything else has grown even more. Where previously we could get up to 300 Condition damage from the trait line without wearing any Condition Damage armor now we are starting from 0 condition damage.

This means that even in full Sinister gear I can’t get my Condition Damage stat higher than my Power stat. That doesn’t make a lot of sense for the BiS Condition Damage gear.

I know it would require a Condition Damage calculation change but perhaps for HoT Condition Damage can become a Core Stat?

Conditions aren’t scaled to need the same amount of condition damage as direct attacks need power. It sounds like you just want the number to change but the effect to remain the same..?

Edit: Also, you don’t need to overcome toughness and protection with condition damage like you do power.

The formulas for the various conditions take your level into account already, whereas the formulas for direct damage via Power don’t. That’s why your Power increases steadily as you gain levels but your visible Condition Damage stat doesn’t. Rest easy, because your conditions are becoming innately stronger anyway.

I wonder why they decided to make a distinction between primary and secondary stats at all to be honest. I think it would be better if all traits functioned in the same way (i.e. you either have 0 of each or 1000 of each at level 80). Formulas would need to be adjusted heavily of course.

@Diovid That was sort of my point.

I can see sort a reason for it for stats like Crit Damage but the the line where they drew core seems off after the trait changes IMO. Healing power and especially Condition Damage seem like they should be core stats.

While I can sort of see your point, I quite like now that needing to spec for condition damage actually means something. If everyone had 1000 condition damage, then incidental conditions applied by non-condition players would be more powerful. Unless of course the first 1000 points made no difference, which would negate the point.

Because conditions have base damage, but skill damage is purely a coefficient of the power stat.

Since every character has 1000 base power, the base damage of skills is the skill coefficient * 1000.

If characters had 1000 base condition damage, then conditions would not have a base damage. Instead all of their damage would come from the condition damage coefficient, but they would effectively have a base damage because all characters would have a base condition damage stat.

So it’s the same thing in the end. Base stats are meaningless because they are the same on every character.

Dristig.9678:

@Diovid That was sort of my point.

I can see sort a reason for it for stats like Crit Damage but the the line where they drew core seems off after the trait changes IMO. Healing power and especially Condition Damage seem like they should be core stats.

Even if they were ‘core stats’ the scaling would just be changed so that 1000 Condition Damage would be equal to the current ‘zero condi damage’, so what would be the point other than to satisfy some OCD, psychological desire? Conditions already have an inherent base damage. Critical Damage works in a similar in that, with 0 Ferocity, you still have 50% increased damage on critical hits. Healing skills and regen have a base scaling as well. I really don’t understand the point of any of this.

Also, Sinister, Carrion, Celestial, and Rampager’s are all hybrid damage stat prefixes. If having your Condition Damage stat to be higher than your Power is important, for whatever reason, you could achieve this with Rabid, Apothecary’s, Settler’s, Shaman’s, Rabid, Dire, Apostate’s, and/or Giver’s gear.

soooo… still not understanding, why change something that isn’t a problem to begin with? condi damage scales with level “0” condi damage still does plenty of damage

They probably should rework all stats to work on the same scale, just so that it’s simpler, symmetric, and more intuitive. The designation between primary and secondary stats is really just arbitrary at this point.

Tman.6349:

Dristig.9678:

@Diovid That was sort of my point.

I can see sort a reason for it for stats like Crit Damage but the the line where they drew core seems off after the trait changes IMO. Healing power and especially Condition Damage seem like they should be core stats.

Even if they were ‘core stats’ the scaling would just be changed so that 1000 Condition Damage would be equal to the current ‘zero condi damage’, so what would be the point other than to satisfy some OCD, psychological desire? Conditions already have an inherent base damage. Critical Damage works in a similar in that, with 0 Ferocity, you still have 50% increased damage on critical hits. Healing skills and regen have a base scaling as well. I really don’t understand the point of any of this.

Also, Sinister, Carrion, Celestial, and Rampager’s are all hybrid damage stat prefixes. If having your Condition Damage stat to be higher than your Power is important, for whatever reason, you could achieve this with Rabid, Apothecary’s, Settler’s, Shaman’s, Rabid, Dire, Apostate’s, and/or Giver’s gear.

Except that by doing so, unless mitigating attributes are there to scale it back down the way power does, it only makes supplemental condition stats LESS effective after the actual conditions are normalized against the new base value. So if everyone got 1000 base condi (for example), with burning’s coefficient being 0.155, and level base line damage being 131.5/tick, the added extra burning from condi is already 155 dmg to total at 286/tick.

So in order to normalize the base line, the coefficient will have to drop even further, more then half; or reduce the base line damage AND the coefficient. In either case, it makes further condi stats less productive due to the nature of coefficients. Its like asking for the Devs to make condi damage similar to Guardian healing, which all have terrible coefficient values to keep the passive heals from outstacking DPS sources against it.

That is, unless, they make Resilience a stat that mitigates condi damage the same way armor/toughness does for power based attacks. This keeps the scaling of condi identical to the way it is now, but you now have 2 opposing stats in order to adjust the base line behavior of classes. This of course is ignoring base HP, which varies significantly between the 3 tiers classes fit into on the subject.

you just need condition damage to deal damage

in other hand

Power relies on prec. and ferocity

Conaywea.5062:

you just need condition damage to deal damage

in other hand

Power relies on prec. and ferocity

Yeah but you always deal standard damage no matter what your build is; it’s possible to avoid dealing condition damage altogether. In other words, condition damage doesn’t benefit a power build but power can still benefit a condition based build.

Honestly, the game would be a lot more stable if none of the stats increased with levels. Increasing attributes with experience seems nice until you completely cancel it out with downscaling on almost every map.

You don’t need damage adjusting itself simultaneously from gear attributes, level modifier, and innate attributes, and then readjusting itself every time you step over an invisible threshold on the map. One of those things would have been enough.

In practice, you don’t start at 0 condition damage. Power damage is purely calculated via multipliers of power, while condition damage is a (base + condition damage * multiplier)

The base 1000 power basically gives physical attacks a base value, which is already included in the formula for conditions.

Conaywea.5062:

you just need condition damage to deal damage

in other hand

Power relies on prec. and ferocity

I see… There are still players who think they know the system of conditionbased builds, but seem to know nothing…
Powerbuilds would also only need power to deal some damage, but you need precision and ferocity to deal more damage. For Conditions the secondary stats you need for this are precision and power/condition duration (last one is sadly only a stat vor runes, sigills, bufffood and givers weapons). If you use something like dire gear with undead runes, you will only deal less then half the damage, you would do with e.g. sinister and proper runes.

Conaywea.5062:

you just need condition damage to deal damage

in other hand

Power relies on prec. and ferocity

Since the removal of the cap this is no longer true. Condition duration now directly increases condition damage.

40% condition duration = 40% more damage

Condition duration food is the most powerful food in the universe now.

Plus without the cap you need crit chance to proc runes, sigils, and condition traits for more condition stacks.

The best gear set for condition users is Condition damage/Condition Duration/Precision. Unfortunately it doesn’t exist yet so condition users are still sub-par to zerkers.