Guild Wars 2

Dungeon running is huge cash. Spvp no repair bill for dying. WvW unless you just follow the herd and flip camps is a giant cash sink. They need to allow karma and/or badges to be used for upgrades. No other aspect of the game cost you money to do.

I agree with the OP. Never understood what the point was for making upgrades to camps/towers/keeps cost money. IMO it shouldn’t cost anything but supply and time.

Buy exotics or tiered armor. Easily the biggest money sink in the game.

WvW is not a money sink unless you are a commander or you waste siege.

I don’t know, most I’ve ever made in a dungeon run is like 50 silver and I wouldn’t do it again because it wasn’t fun. Don’t WvW much because that’s only fun for the first few zerg/pvdoor battles and then it gets boring, so I don’t see it as a big money sink. For me leveling characters is the biggest money sink.

rizzo.1079:

I don’t know, most I’ve ever made in a dungeon run is like 50 silver and I wouldn’t do it again because it wasn’t fun. Don’t WvW much because that’s only fun for the first few zerg/pvdoor battles and then it gets boring, so I don’t see it as a big money sink. For me leveling characters is the biggest money sink.

People do CoF speed runs in like 10 minutes and if they are willing to do it over and over you can make good money.

Vol.5241:

WvW is not a money sink unless you are a commander or you waste siege.

I guess you have never done an upgrade then.

raenen.5807:

rizzo.1079:

I don’t know, most I’ve ever made in a dungeon run is like 50 silver and I wouldn’t do it again because it wasn’t fun. Don’t WvW much because that’s only fun for the first few zerg/pvdoor battles and then it gets boring, so I don’t see it as a big money sink. For me leveling characters is the biggest money sink.

People do CoF speed runs in like 10 minutes and if they are willing to do it over and over you can make good money.

Yeah and people are willing to treat a game like a job, that’s their problem.

rizzo.1079:

raenen.5807:

rizzo.1079:

I don’t know, most I’ve ever made in a dungeon run is like 50 silver and I wouldn’t do it again because it wasn’t fun. Don’t WvW much because that’s only fun for the first few zerg/pvdoor battles and then it gets boring, so I don’t see it as a big money sink. For me leveling characters is the biggest money sink.

People do CoF speed runs in like 10 minutes and if they are willing to do it over and over you can make good money.

Yeah and people are willing to treat a game like a job, that’s their problem.

The point is you can spend hours in dungeons and make cash. You can spend hours in WvW and go broke.

raenen.5807:

Vol.5241:

WvW is not a money sink unless you are a commander or you waste siege.

I guess you have never done an upgrade then.

Upgrades can’t be done by everyone. They are done by one person at a time. So it’s not really a money sink since it doesn’t take out enough gold in the economy for everyone.

Repair bills, waypoint costs – those are true money sinks.

Its a money sink if your that guy.

repairs are the main problem in wvw. go in a small group of 5, ninja 5 towers and 3 supply camps, 2 mercenaries use 1 ram each. that gives you 29.4s-6s(ram cost) = 23.4s profit. also, next time youll probably not have to buy a ram. why? because the tower lord/ supply camp lord drop badges sometimes and then you buy a ram with those badges. then, you also get loot from the players that will most likely show up, andif a zerg comes, you WP out. simple, easy, effective money. now, its nowhere near as profitable as cof speedrun or other farms, which should definitly be changed.

Because you earn money in WvW, they can’t not charge you to do stuff in WvW. Otherwise it would be the only place in the game you can earn money without spending it.

The OP says you don’t pay money in SPvP. Well that’s true. But you don’t earn money either.

And if you don’t think people die in dungeons, you’d be wrong.

Waypoints in WvW and dungeons are free…repair bills, not so much. On the other hand, if there weren’t repair bills, people could play kamikazee a lot more. Part of the skill in WvW is learning how to survive.

If you didn’t care about dying, it wouldn’t be the same game at all.

Thats only if you look at wvw as just flipping camps. If Anet wants to turn wvw into that its going to become boring fast.

I play WvW 95% of the time I play. Between dropped loot, gathering and the items from Heavy Loot Bags, its not abnormal for me to profit 5-10g each day depending on how long I get to play that is.

Thundar.3910:

I play WvW 95% of the time I play. Between dropped loot, gathering and the items from Heavy Loot Bags, its not abnormal for me to profit 5-10g each day depending on how long I get to play that is.

This is true of me as well, except that 3-6g of it goes back into upgrades and siege, and if I had spent that time on dungeons instead (which are super easy, and if you die in a dungeon your team is bad), I’d earn six times that. That’s the crux of the problem; compared to other parts of the game, WvW is not rewarding enough (and this isn’t factoring in CoF 1 spam, which is even more profitable than doing assorted dungeons).

Vol.5241:

WvW is not a money sink unless you are a commander or you waste siege.

I am not a Commander but I routinely upgrade towers/keeps/supply camps and I am constantly placing siege where needed and ensuring that that siege gets recycled on a regular basis. On a low population server you cannot depend on Commanders to do all the work and being a Commander makes you no different in responsibility for siege and upgrades then the next person.

That stated I can easily drop a couple of gold over a few hours making the rounds of towers and keeps. The problem arises from the simple fact that many are reluctant to spend money on upgrades or siege and wait until the next guy does it and that includes Commanders. It is like going out drinking and waiting until someone else volunteers to buy a round while keeping your hand tight on your wallet. You can get drunk at anothers expense without spending a dime. The other people however can refuse to buy you a drink, that option is not available in WvW as the upgrades still have to happen.

What can be done? I had proposed earlier that the local populace be “taxed” for their protection. Upgrade a supply camp/tower/keep that tax money goes to the Quartermaster for upgrades so upgrades cannot begin immediately, one would have to hold onto the asset to allow the tax money to build up to enable the next upgrade to be queued. However after thinking about it I realized that this is already done by using supply as the “tax money”. So why then is there a requirement to spend additional coin on upgrades? The money cost is a redundant and costly burden for those that are more the defender then those that want to run with the zerg karma train.

I never…EVER lose money in WvW. Most of the time running for a couple hours earns me around a gold. Granted that’s nothing compared to what CoF speed runs will get you, but calling it a money sink tells me that you’re doing it very, very wrong.

I can see money being sunk in for people who like to buy expensive siege with cash instead of badges, but that’s the only exception to the rule.

Just because you come out ahead in the grand scheme of things doesn’t mean it’s not a money sink. I mean, I make money on the TP all of the time, but it still sinks a ton of my gold out of the market regardless. The same is true of WvW, though to a much lesser degree.

As an aside, if the gold earned in WvW were tripled, you would scarcely see a change in the value of gold due to how much more of it is earned elsewhere in the game.

Hickeroar.9734:

I never…EVER lose money in WvW. Most of the time running for a couple hours earns me around a gold. Granted that’s nothing compared to what CoF speed runs will get you, but calling it a money sink tells me that you’re doing it very, very wrong.

I can see money being sunk in for people who like to buy expensive siege with cash instead of badges, but that’s the only exception to the rule.

As I stated above, if I ran with the zerg karma train I could make money in WvW but I would not be spending my time and my coin ordering upgrades and placing siege. If I decide not to spend my coin making cash is easy in WvW but someone has to spend the money.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Just because you come out ahead in the grand scheme of things doesn’t mean it’s not a money sink. I mean, I make money on the TP all of the time, but it still sinks a ton of my gold out of the market regardless. The same is true of WvW, though to a much lesser degree.

If the gold earned in WvW were tripled, you would scarcely see a change in the value of gold due to how much more of it is earned elsewhere in the game.

I’ll put it this way…. I spend a LOT more money in PvE than I do in WvW. Also, I think you underestimate how many people play WvW, or you’re on a low-pop WvW server. If the money tripled from WvW, I’d be making 2g per hour or more, which is more than a lot of dungeons will get you. Multiply that times the tens of thousands of players involved in WvW, and you’ve got TONS more gold flowing into the market.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Just because you come out ahead in the grand scheme of things doesn’t mean it’s not a money sink. I mean, I make money on the TP all of the time, but it still sinks a ton of my gold out of the market regardless. The same is true of WvW, though to a much lesser degree.

As an aside, if the gold earned in WvW were tripled, you would scarcely see a change in the value of gold due to how much more of it is earned elsewhere in the game.

I agree with your last statement. Increasing the amount of gold earned in WvW is not the answer. Those that will spend their money on upgrades will still spend it, those that never spend coin on upgrades would just be getting richer.

Hickeroar.9734:

I’ll put it this way…. I spend a LOT more money in PvE than I do in WvW. Also, I think you underestimate how many people play WvW, or you’re on a low-pop WvW server. If the money tripled from WvW, I’d be making 2g per hour or more, which is more than a lot of dungeons will get you. Multiply that times the tens of thousands of players involved in WvW, and you’ve got TONS more gold flowing into the market.

I make 5g/hour running SE without factoring in drops. I can make way more farming CoF 1. Even AC is 4g/hour. If you, on a T2 server, could make a mere 2g/hour, it would be a step in the right direction.

Theftwind.8976:

I agree with your last statement. Increasing the amount of gold earned in WvW is not the answer. Those that will spend their money on upgrades will still spend it, those that never spend coin on upgrades would just be getting richer.

Good, I say. If WvW were more rewarding, more PvE players might be willing to learn it and come out and represent their servers. That sounds win-win; people buying siege/upgrades could more easily afford them, and people can earn a decent amount of gold in WvW encouraging them to give it a try. As it stands, why would a primarily PvE player ever try WvW unless they enjoyed it? They can earn zounds more gold elsewhere.

The issue is not how much money you can make but rather that there is no way possible at the moment to ensure everyone carries the same cost burden for upgrades and siege. That is why having a coin cost for upgrades along with the supply cost is onerous for some but not even noticeable for others as those “others” will never order upgrades. To Fortify a Keep will pull 1 gold 50 silver from ONE persons’ pocket and not from everybody on that server.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Hickeroar.9734:

…which is more than a lot of dungeons will get you.

I make 5g/hour running SE without factoring in drops. I can make way more farming CoF 1. Even AC is 4g/hour. If you, on a T2 server, could make a mere 2g/hour, it would be a step in the right direction.

I definitely understand that what I said doesn’t apply to ALL dungeons. Just the vast majority of them. I made 7g doing CoF speed runs last night for an hour. The thing is…very few people feel like doing speed runs in CoF for hours on end. MOST people MIGHT run a dungeon a day…and that’s optimistic.

I rep two guilds regularly. One is 170 members, the other is 70. In all those people…I would guess (and this is just an estimate) only 5% of them run a dungeon every day. I’m a die-hard who runs them like crazy, but I’m a rarity in the mix.

Sorry though, I’m kinda getting tangential here. In any case, siege aside, WvW is one of the cheapest things I do. High level fractals cost quite a bit. Very rarely do you exit a lvl 40+ fractal with less than 3 or 4 pieces of damaged gear. More often than not, at least one person has to exit the run to go repair their armor because something’s become completely broken.

I’ve had 5 hour WvW runs where I only died a time or two… If you consider the number of capture-able locations, the upgrades possible divided by the number of people playing still puts WvW at SUPER cheap. Just get behind a smart commander and play smart on a personal level…and you won’t be pouring money into it.

From my experience, there’s minority of people in WvW that will spend their money on upgrades. And it seems to be the same folks over and over. Now no one is forcing them to do it, so at the end of the day it’s their choice, but if the costs were adjusted someway, maybe more people would upgrade and then the burden would be spread across greater numbers.

BrimstoneAshe.5043:

From my experience, there’s minority of people in WvW that will spend their money on upgrades. And it seems to be the same folks over and over. Now no one is forcing them to do it, so at the end of the day it’s their choice, but if the costs were adjusted someway, maybe more people would upgrade and then the burden would be spread across greater numbers.

Sadly I think most WvW Pugs don’t even know you CAN upgrade things. xD

The TP by far is the biggest money sink. Its the price to put good on it and the price to sell goods on it that wins out over WvW. Not every one WvW but every dose use the TP.

I don’t think WvW is a money sink but, rewards really, really suck!

I know commanders who spend 15 gold on siege and upgrades a day sometimes, unless you’re one of them you shouldn’t really be losing money in WvW.

raenen.5807:

Vol.5241:

WvW is not a money sink unless you are a commander or you waste siege.

I guess you have never done an upgrade then.

Most likely a good idea, if there’s any chance the point will be flipped while you sleep, work, or get up to go to the bathroom.

huh ?? I’ve made 150g during the last 2 weeks of wvw. Best way to make money as for me it’s not boring, unlike cof etc.

Aphix.9846:

huh ?? I’ve made 150g during the last 2 weeks of wvw. Best way to make money as for me it’s not boring, unlike cof etc.

Did you make 150g while buying siege and upgrading or just following the herd flipping camps?

Aphix.9846:

huh ?? I’ve made 150g during the last 2 weeks of wvw. Best way to make money as for me it’s not boring, unlike cof etc.

There is a lot of context missing here, such as how many hours were played in those 2 weeks. Furthermore, I’ve made 150g in a handful of days farming CoF 1 before, so…

If people start making money playing zergball then Anet will just drop the DR hammer on it.

Oh… don’t you love these threads? Everyone gets to come in, and brag about how much money they earned, and how easy it was…

For the rest of us that play on outmanned servers, if you don’t buy siege, and lots of it, then you can’t hold anything.

If any of you rich guys would like to log into FA, we got 10 guys defending overlook and there looks to be 50-150 TC players outside. The two commanders on the map are both broke, and we need ele’s to do the air shield thing ‘cause the wall’s at 10%….

…but you can bet your backside that we’re gonna use every last ounce of supply to build ballistas, and hold them off till the last man stands.

Vol.5241:

WvW is not a money sink unless you are a commander or you waste siege.

I’m not a commander but I’ve paid for upgrades.

Siege I can understand having a cost but upgrades shouldn’t require gold. Everyone should be able to afford to start any upgrade. Some are more expensive than others.

Maybe I’m reading it wrong, but is TC really implying there are no gold sinks in PvE?

Ezeriel.9574:

If any of you rich guys would like to log into FA, we got 10 guys defending overlook and there looks to be 50-150 TC players outside. The two commanders on the map are both broke, and we need ele’s to do the air shield thing ‘cause the wall’s at 10%….

…but you can bet your backside that we’re gonna use every last ounce of supply to build ballistas, and hold them off till the last man stands.

If you stopped turtling and joined the fray, maybe we could get our monthly done and go back to roleplaying.

money sink? I do upgrades and build equipment, I usually come out ahead… bags full of junk etc.
well apart from the commander fee, but that’s a one time off and at the players discretion to purchase.

i agree, there needs to be far more money sinks in pve

be careful what you wish for :p

Anet hate wvw that is why. They don’t like ppl player wvw

what is this anyway? another “we need dragons and guaranteed rare chests in wvw” thread again?!? Dude, if this game doesn’t appeal to you, please return to wow.

I rarely use my commander tag – only when it’s absolutely necessary to protect an objective – but I easily spend 10g/wk or more between siege and upgrades. I’m not afraid to start dropping ballistas behind us in field battles just to get even the smallest edge, I’ve got rams and catapults at every capture, and if we hold Stonemist you can bet those are my super trebs at the top of it raining down constant harassment on enemy towers. I throw down golem squads, including Omegas, arrow carts to outfit every keep I see in need, and will constantly upgrade anything that isn’t working.

Maybe there’s such a thing as being “too” dedicated to your server. I mean if you balance out your time so you’re making money some of the time and spending money some of the time, instead of doing the “right” thing all the time, you’ll probably be better off financially.

You spend some time flipping camps, which helps your side anyway, you spend a bit of time with the zerg, you build up your resources and then you spend them on whatever upgrades you want. It’s actually part of the game.

No one should have the money to freely upgrade all the time.

The OP suggests the WvW is a cash sink because he plays it in the way which is probably guaranteed to make the least money, while at the same time putting down the ways in WvW he could make money.

Seems to me this is a problem more of perception than of reality.

WvW could have easily used a different currency for blueprints and upgrades, though.

For example, Planetside 2 uses separate currencies for land vehicles, air vehicles, and munitions. The regeneration rate is determined by what facilities your faction holds.

And this is a shameless cash grab F2P game. B2P games shouldn’t be hungrier for a currency with a cash value.

RebelYell.7132:

WvW could have easily used a different currency for blueprints and upgrades, though.

There is, it’s called… free? Costs a little time is all. I sometimes drop them just because I need more bag space for loot drops.

Overall WvW is probably more expensive and least profitable, compared to for example speed dungeon running or world event farming or farming Orr…

However, its also a 100 times more fun and epic than either of those other options…

Daywolf.2630:

what is this anyway? another “we need dragons and guaranteed rare chests in wvw” thread again?!? Dude, if this game doesn’t appeal to you, please return to wow.

Try reading my post before you respond because that’s not what I was saying.

Vayne.8563:

Maybe there’s such a thing as being “too” dedicated to your server. I mean if you balance out your time so you’re making money some of the time and spending money some of the time, instead of doing the “right” thing all the time, you’ll probably be better off financially.

You spend some time flipping camps, which helps your side anyway, you spend a bit of time with the zerg, you build up your resources and then you spend them on whatever upgrades you want. It’s actually part of the game.

No one should have the money to freely upgrade all the time.

The OP suggests the WvW is a cash sink because he plays it in the way which is probably guaranteed to make the least money, while at the same time putting down the ways in WvW he could make money.

Seems to me this is a problem more of perception than of reality.

I do all those things and I upgrades as well. If they made upgrades cost karma instead of cash it would end the cash sink to wvw since your gaining karma flipping camps anyway.