Guild Wars 2

- World bosses are immune to conditions
- Destructible objects are immune to bleeds
- Bleeds, poison and burn only count from the most recent(Or highest damage?) applicant

So during the early days of GW2, I could have passed this off as an oversight or bug, but a year later its still the same way so its evidently intentional. Why?

Servanin.5021:

- World bosses are immune to conditions
- Destructible objects are immune to bleeds
- Bleeds, poison and burn only count from the most recent(Or highest damage?) applicant

So during the early days of GW2, I could have passed this off as an oversight or bug, but a year later its still the same way so its evidently intentional. Why?

I think they are scared to touch conditions until they gather more data. Right now condi builds are near useless in most PvE situations, and way too good in WvW situations.

They need to overhaul the entire condition system, but I wouldn’t expect it any time soon.

Since when have world bosses been immune to conditions?

It’s hard to balance. Like, really hard /15

TheDaiBish.9735:

Since when have world bosses been immune to conditions?

It should probably say “effectively immune” since one necro can full stack every condition, everyone else doesn’t get to apply them. Also about 50% of dungeon bosses purge conditions, the only world boss that does that is kakra queen who purges every .5 seconds making her effectively immune.

Aeonblade.8709:

I think they are scared to touch conditions until they gather more data. Right now condi builds are near useless in most PvE situations, and way too good in WvW situations.

They need to overhaul the entire condition system, but I wouldn’t expect it any time soon.

I don’t know if I’d say “way too good” in WvW, but they’re at least somewhat on par. Sure they’ll take down a glass canon zerker build like fire will burn oil soaked paper, but if you build with some condition cleansing it’s survivable if you play smart, get out of the AOE and actually run away when need be. I know, even as a dire equipped necro, I certainly run away when I see other players coming at me. I can still only take 3 or 4 hits before I’m down.

Condition builds are terrible in PvE, especially dungeons and world bosses. When the op says world bosses are immune, I think what he/she means that that marks typically don’t work on world bosses, effectively limiting a condition user’s attack quite substantially.

Conditions are extremely strong in pvp.

It has to do with condi scaling being linear and direct being exponential (armor stats considered).

Servanin.5021:

- World bosses are immune to conditions
- Destructible objects are immune to bleeds
- Bleeds, poison and burn only count from the most recent(Or highest damage?) applicant

So during the early days of GW2, I could have passed this off as an oversight or bug, but a year later its still the same way so its evidently intentional. Why?

Condition damage wasn’t so great back in GW1 too, but at the time, conditions dealt a set amount of damage and was capped. Also, the durations were reset on application if I remember correctly.

In terms of caps for conditions, it was explained that it’s a limitation of the technology since each stack of a condition has intensity or duration constantly updating for each and every single player.

As for destructible objects and world bosses, I have no idea why anything isn’t being done to address this issue. In my opinion, I would like to see at least a percentage (probably about 25%-40%) of the total condition damage being applied as straight up damage against world bosses/destructible objects.

Ryan.9387:

Conditions are extremely strong in pvp.

It has to do with condi scaling being linear and direct being exponential (armor stats considered).

In PvE, condi scaling is only linear to the 25 stack cap, then it’s flat, making more than one condi user in a group useless…2 at most, depending on the group. Direct damage isn’t capped or limited at all, which is why it’s so much more effective in PvE. There are no bosses with 500000hp in WvW or PvP which is why conditions are so much effective there. No time to build that 25 stack, so damage is no nerfed in to the ground. Something has to be done in PvE though. The cap has to go.

DanteZero.9736:

In terms of caps for conditions, it was explained that it’s a limitation of the technology since each stack of a condition has intensity or duration constantly updating for each and every single player.

That’s a cop-out. With today’s processing power there’s no reason for this to exist. There was lots of speculation around the 250 item stack limit in the bank too, and the staunch insisted it was a programmatic limitation, even against all the evidence that it was not. Now you can buy bank stack expansions in the gem store. The 250 is simply an arbitrary number which is exactly the same as the 25 for the condition stack…arbitrary. It’s not like it’s complex math, in fact, I would argue the cap complicates the process because they need some sort of algorithm to determine which conditions to apply and which to ignore, rather than just applying them and letting them time out. If they are at the limitation of their hardware and simply cannot increase the condition stack then all damage needs to be reworked because condition damage is broken in PvE.

Huge flaw in the game that has been known and acknowledged since October 2012 (14 months ago!!!!)

John Peters in October (2012): “Condition damage is an issue we are looking into.”
John Peters in February (2013): “Condition damage is an issue we are looking into.”
Original Posts:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/No-love-for-condition-builds/page/2#
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Comfirmed-Nothing-being-done-re-conditions/page/4

It is not ‘hard to balance’.

If one Direct damage character can sustain 1500 DPS for a ‘boss’ fight.
And one Condition damage character can sustain 1500 dps for a ‘boss’ fight
Then 10 of either characters should be able to sustain 15,000 DPS for the ‘boss’ fight.

There is no balance reason that conditions are capped and direct damage is not.

And if it is a technical issue… Blizzard, with their glacial development pace, was able to solve the issue in their ancient WoW engine back in 2008.

Sad!

Ulari <— disappointed

Ulari.9547:

And if it is a technical issue… Blizzard, with their glacial development pace, was able to solve the issue in their ancient WoW engine back in 2008.

Sad!

Ulari <— disappointed

It took them 4 years to do it.

Phy.2913:

Ulari.9547:

And if it is a technical issue… Blizzard, with their glacial development pace, was able to solve the issue in their ancient WoW engine back in 2008.

Sad!

Ulari <— disappointed

It took them 4 years to do it.

While true, that doesn’t mean it has to take 4 years for every other game too

Phy.2913:

It’s hard to balance. Like, really hard /15

My job is so hard I’m just gonna leave it \(^0^)/

Aeonblade.8709:

Phy.2913:

Ulari.9547:

And if it is a technical issue… Blizzard, with their glacial development pace, was able to solve the issue in their ancient WoW engine back in 2008.

Sad!

Ulari <— disappointed

It took them 4 years to do it.

While true, that doesn’t mean it has to take 4 years for every other game too

So if it took the 4 years to fix it, and they fixed it in 2008. In 2004 the best one could get would have been a single core Pentium 4 with an early 64-bit architecture, but Windows was not optimized to use it. I could maybe buy in to the fact that this hardware might have problems. 4 years later, in 2008, the first i7 processors appeared, quad core monsters with vastly more processing power. Dual core did not appear until 2006. It is shortly going to be 2014, ~10 years since the original issue surfaced in WoW and 6 years since Blizzard solved it. That is several lifetimes for computer hardware. These days, you can get 12-core, 16 core desktop computers with enormous amounts of RAM and power compared to that of 2008, servers, even moreso. ANet has no excuse for not addressing a problem that Blizzard solved on comparatively ancient hardware years ago.

The reality is, they don’t want to anger power/direct damage users, who make up a majority of the players, since they already complain incessantly about condition damage. In all truth, they should own up an just remove condition builds from the game.

Leamas.5803:

Aeonblade.8709:

Phy.2913:

Ulari.9547:

And if it is a technical issue… Blizzard, with their glacial development pace, was able to solve the issue in their ancient WoW engine back in 2008.

Sad!

Ulari <— disappointed

It took them 4 years to do it.

While true, that doesn’t mean it has to take 4 years for every other game too

So if it took the 4 years to fix it, and they fixed it in 2008. In 2004 the best one could get would have been a single core Pentium 4 with an early 64-bit architecture, but Windows was not optimized to use it. I could maybe buy in to the fact that this hardware might have problems. 4 years later, in 2008, the first i7 processors appeared, quad core monsters with vastly more processing power. Dual core did not appear until 2006. It is shortly going to be 2014, ~10 years since the original issue surfaced in WoW and 6 years since Blizzard solved it. That is several lifetimes for computer hardware. These days, you can get 12-core, 16 core desktop computers with enormous amounts of RAM and power compared to that of 2008, servers, even moreso. ANet has no excuse for not addressing a problem that Blizzard solved on comparatively ancient hardware years ago.

This is assuming that it’s a hardware issue, which I think is unlikely.

You would think that this problem wouldve been already been evident in the alpha/beta.

Ignoring technical limitations/jargon for a minute couldnt they just raise the condition cap on monsters.

Leave at 25 for human players so wvw/spvp stay unaffected. Raise to whatever cap makes it able to compete with direct damage and allows more then 1 condition user to contribute to overall damage.

Defiant needs a serious rework to.

Some of the NPC’s have signed contracts, under the clause of Germs and Conditions they are only allowed a maximum of 25 stacks, to go over would be a breach of their EBA and may well put other NPC’s out of work.

There may well be negotiations going on with their employer to change this but so far we have not heard anything.

Aeonblade.8709:

Servanin.5021:

- World bosses are immune to conditions
- Destructible objects are immune to bleeds
- Bleeds, poison and burn only count from the most recent(Or highest damage?) applicant

So during the early days of GW2, I could have passed this off as an oversight or bug, but a year later its still the same way so its evidently intentional. Why?

I think they are scared to touch conditions until they gather more data. Right now condi builds are near useless in most PvE situations, and way too good in WvW situations.

They need to overhaul the entire condition system, but I wouldn’t expect it any time soon.

Depends on what PvE situation and what WvW situation. As long as you’re not hitting the cap you can do some very good DPS with conditions in PvE. In WvW conditions can be weak if your fighting a group with a lot of condition cleanses (or even 1v1 vs. some builds). It really depends.

Vs objects or world bosses… yea… it sucks xD

Aberrant.6749:

Depends on what PvE situation… As long as you’re not hitting the cap you can do some very good DPS with conditions in PvE.

But this only applies to solo or very small groups. 2 condition users together can easily hit the cap on something that doesn’t have some sort of cleanse. This is not the case with power/direct damage users, whose damage adds up no matter how many you have.

5 necros hitting a target arent going to do more dmg than 5 warriors. Bleed cap is stupid, and needs to be fixed asap.

Derek.9021:

5 necros hitting a target arent going to do more dmg than 5 warriors. Bleed cap is stupid, and needs to be fixed asap.

I honestly believe that 5 warriors should be able to take a target down faster than 5 necros. Direct damage is and should be faster. The problems comes where 5 warriors will do 5x the damage and will increase as you add more warriors where 5 necros will cap and really only do, about 1.2-1.8x the damage, depending on the build and won’t increase damage much as you add more.

We’re talking a power spec warrior vs a condition necro, both very powerful builds solo.

I like condition warrior a lot too. One flurry level 3 with a sigil of earth and the proper traits can spike to 20+ stacks in seconds, without relying on power/crit damage, leaving those affix slots open to something else.

Its all the same regardless of class though. Find a crate, turn on auto-attack, alt tab out for 60 seconds because nothing else works on it.

But as far as DOT stacking goes, WoW isn’t the exception that solved it. Every game but GW2 has everybody’s DOTs as a separate stack. I’m guessing its balance related since condition builds can still do a ton of damage while not being nearly as fragile as berserkers.

It is not a balance issue.
There is no balance reason for condition damage to go down in a group while direct damage does not.

If two players can each do 1,000 DPS … there is no balance reason why one player gets to do only 10% of his damage when attacking a mob that 10 other people are attacking and the other player still does full damage in the same situation. That is just dumb. But that is what the condition cap does.

Ulari

Leamas.5803:

Aeonblade.8709:

Phy.2913:

Ulari.9547:

And if it is a technical issue… Blizzard, with their glacial development pace, was able to solve the issue in their ancient WoW engine back in 2008.

Sad!

Ulari <— disappointed

It took them 4 years to do it.

While true, that doesn’t mean it has to take 4 years for every other game too

…ANet has no excuse for not addressing a problem that Blizzard solved on comparatively ancient hardware years ago.

Correct! And if it is an unsolvable problem, the the game should not offer condition damage specs. But the game is advertised as play your way, pick your talents, choose your weapons, choose your skills… and there are many, many choices focused on condition damage. And they work (sort of) when you are soloing but are worthless (literally worthless) when you are in a group.

And remember… Anet has acknowledged that this is an issue (condition caps) for more than a year!!! But they are unable or unwilling to do anything about it!

Ulari

It comes down to money.....like most GW2 issues.

Conditions are too strong in PvP and too weak in PvE. They need to be separated but that would require time and personnel, something they’re not willing to invest in.

Leamas.5803:

ANet has no excuse for not addressing a problem that Blizzard solved on comparatively ancient hardware years ago.

I don’t know what game you were playing, but as a former fire mage, I can assure you that there were all kinds of problems with WoW’s condition system even after they assigned unique slots to players. The calculations for burn damage were horribly broken, resulting in a soft nerf to fire mage damage due to things like delayed damage ticks (re-applying a burn reset the DoT timer) and swallowed ignites (burn applications in quick succession could cause smaller burns to over-write larger ones).

GW2 addressed the above issues by applying stacks of finite amounts of damage, but this requires each stack have its own timer. Rather than having one application of burn for a given player with a single timer, we now have 1-25 stacks of bleed, where every stack has its own timer.

I wish condi damage was better in PVE because I personally prefer to run condi builds. I had so much fun leveling up my Engi using rabid gear and such, that when I hit 80 and went zerk it felt peh

Ulari.9547:

It is not a balance issue.
There is no balance reason for condition damage to go down in a group while direct damage does not.

If two players can each do 1,000 DPS … there is no balance reason why one player gets to do only 10% of his damage when attacking a mob that 10 other people are attacking and the other player still does full damage in the same situation. That is just dumb. But that is what the condition cap does.

Ulari

Balance issue:

Berzerker = high dmg, but fragile character
Rabid/Dire/Carrion = high cond. dmg, but much survivable than zerker.

Here you go

STRanger.5120:

Ulari.9547:

It is not a balance issue.
There is no balance reason for condition damage to go down in a group while direct damage does not.

If two players can each do 1,000 DPS … there is no balance reason why one player gets to do only 10% of his damage when attacking a mob that 10 other people are attacking and the other player still does full damage in the same situation. That is just dumb. But that is what the condition cap does.

Ulari

Balance issue:

Berzerker = high dmg, but fragile character
Rabid/Dire/Carrion = high cond. dmg, but much survivable than zerker.

Here you go

I won’t argue weather condition damage is better than direct damage…
I will argue that having a the condition stack limit on the target is stupid.

Five condition characters should do 5x the damage of one condition character.
Just like five berserkers do 5x the damage of one berserker.

If a condition damage character is ‘better’ than a direct damage character… of course it should be balanced. But making every condition build worthless in world events and ‘bad’ when grouped with other condition builds is not the way to balance it. And Anet knows this… they have acknowledged in these forums that the condition cap is an issue. My frustration (and others) is that it has been more than a year since this issue was acknowledged and there has been no fix, no planned fix, no discussion of what the fix would be…

And it is important to fix this.
Having condition damage inferior to direct damage in group settings (in an MMO) hurts build diversity and hurts the game.

Ulari

Ulari.9547:

STRanger.5120:

Ulari.9547:

It is not a balance issue.
There is no balance reason for condition damage to go down in a group while direct damage does not.

If two players can each do 1,000 DPS … there is no balance reason why one player gets to do only 10% of his damage when attacking a mob that 10 other people are attacking and the other player still does full damage in the same situation. That is just dumb. But that is what the condition cap does.

Ulari

Balance issue:

Berzerker = high dmg, but fragile character
Rabid/Dire/Carrion = high cond. dmg, but much survivable than zerker.

Here you go

I won’t argue weather condition damage is better than direct damage…
I will argue that having a the condition stack limit on the target is stupid.

Five condition characters should do 5x the damage of one condition character.
Just like five berserkers do 5x the damage of one berserker.

If a condition damage character is ‘better’ than a direct damage character… of course it should be balanced. But making every condition build worthless in world events and ‘bad’ when grouped with other condition builds is not the way to balance it. And Anet knows this… they have acknowledged in these forums that the condition cap is an issue. My frustration (and others) is that it has been more than a year since this issue was acknowledged and there has been no fix, no planned fix, no discussion of what the fix would be…

And it is important to fix this.
Having condition damage inferior to direct damage in group settings (in an MMO) hurts build diversity and hurts the game.

Ulari

Good post, especially that last part.

Aeonblade.8709:

Ulari.9547:

STRanger.5120:

Ulari.9547:

It is not a balance issue.
There is no balance reason for condition damage to go down in a group while direct damage does not.

If two players can each do 1,000 DPS … there is no balance reason why one player gets to do only 10% of his damage when attacking a mob that 10 other people are attacking and the other player still does full damage in the same situation. That is just dumb. But that is what the condition cap does.

Ulari

Balance issue:

Berzerker = high dmg, but fragile character
Rabid/Dire/Carrion = high cond. dmg, but much survivable than zerker.

Here you go

I won’t argue weather condition damage is better than direct damage…
I will argue that having a the condition stack limit on the target is stupid.

Five condition characters should do 5x the damage of one condition character.
Just like five berserkers do 5x the damage of one berserker.

If a condition damage character is ‘better’ than a direct damage character… of course it should be balanced. But making every condition build worthless in world events and ‘bad’ when grouped with other condition builds is not the way to balance it. And Anet knows this… they have acknowledged in these forums that the condition cap is an issue. My frustration (and others) is that it has been more than a year since this issue was acknowledged and there has been no fix, no planned fix, no discussion of what the fix would be…

And it is important to fix this.
Having condition damage inferior to direct damage in group settings (in an MMO) hurts build diversity and hurts the game.

Ulari

Good post, especially that last part.

Yeah, that is more sensible than the first post, I of course agree on that, every character should be able to have his own stack of conditions, like in other MMO games.
The fact that objects are not harmed by them seems logical to me (maybe except wooden objects vs. burning of course), but the main issue is of course the enemies, not structures.

Well its not exactly the difference between life and death as far as killing objects goes, but its sort of in the same vein as making golems or elementals bleed. They did it because they didn’t want to force people to regear because their build was completely ineffective vs. certain enemies.

Imagine if all undead were immune to bleed/poison, all ghost had a passive 75% damage reduction against physical, and elementals were immune to their respective element. Wouldn’t be very fun, would it?

Sort of like how condition damage is when you aren’t soloing.

Servanin.5021:

Well its not exactly the difference between life and death as far as killing objects goes, but its sort of in the same vein as making golems or elementals bleed. They did it because they didn’t want to force people to regear because their build was completely ineffective vs. certain enemies.

Imagine if all undead were immune to bleed/poison, all ghost had a passive 75% damage reduction against physical, and elementals were immune to their respective element. Wouldn’t be very fun, would it?

Sort of like how condition damage is when you aren’t soloing.

In many games, elementals will actually heal if you apply their respective elements against them.

its an easy balance fix all damage caps at same amount. cond doesnt have stacks the amount of possible damage that can be done per char is caped

STRanger.5120:

Ulari.9547:

It is not a balance issue.
There is no balance reason for condition damage to go down in a group while direct damage does not.

If two players can each do 1,000 DPS … there is no balance reason why one player gets to do only 10% of his damage when attacking a mob that 10 other people are attacking and the other player still does full damage in the same situation. That is just dumb. But that is what the condition cap does.

Ulari

Balance issue:

Berzerker = high dmg, but fragile character
Rabid/Dire/Carrion = high cond. dmg, but much survivable than zerker.

Here you go

Rabid is currently the highest condition damage. It is Con Dmg/Prec/Toughness.

Condition damage gives each condition a punch. Precision allows more condition applications due to traits/sigils and toughness gives more condition damage through food/traits/runes.

Dire loses out on the precision bonus and carrion loses out on the precision and toughness bonus.

Just because each condition does high damage doesn’t mean dps is high. A dire player’s bleeds may hit for the same amount but they can’t reach as many stacks as a rabid player. This means their overall DPS is lower. However you never notice this because of the stack limit and multiple people.

What we need is the condition duration cap to be removed along with the condition hard cap. Then slightly rebalance the durations of conditions and introduce a Condition damage/Condition duration/ precision gear set which would be the zerker equivalent of condition damage.

I don’t really know how you can compare DPS in this game though. I’ve been killed by warriors and thieves in <3 seconds but I can’t say i’ve ever been killed that fast by a condition user. Even 25 stacks of bleeds, burning and fear on me that is only 5k dps and would take 6 seconds to kill me, not the 3 that physical damage dealers can do. Without a dps meter there is no good way to tell if things are actually balanced.

Deep Sleep.4568:

its an easy balance fix all damage caps at same amount. cond doesnt have stacks the amount of possible damage that can be done per char is caped

That would be too much work. All the bosses and tougher creatures are balanced around an uncapped power user. If they capped power users/direct damage in a similar fashion to condi users all the stronger creatures in the game would have to be rebalanced. All the fractals and dungeons would have to be rebalanced. Can you imaging doing something like the golum or fire ele, or the maw, or ANY dungeon if everyone was capped at the same level of condition damage? Bosses would essentially become more work than they’re worth and no one would be doing them and dungeons would be all but impossible. A serious nerf to power users like that would kill the game. The ignore the problem with condition damage because we are a minority.

I’ve thrown in the towel and given up and have started leveling a guardian to use in PvE. I’ll still use my necro in WvW, but in PvE I’d like to run more dungeons, fractals and group events, but no one wants to do it with a necro or any other condition spec, and for good reason.

ANet should remove all condition speced gear/weapons and classes from PvE, like they did with MF gear and redo weapons so they all apply direct damage. This is the way they’re pushing people anyway, so why not just take the choice away altogether?

Condition damage in pve sux.

im not asking to do 50k damage like a berseker warrior o thief, im asking for to do my own damage by condition not sharing it with the other party members….

i thinf that its fair i can do more and less the same like a berseker do because im a DPS to, not a healer, not a tank not a supportive player.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Rabid is currently the highest condition damage. It is Con Dmg/Prec/Toughness.

Condition damage gives each condition a punch. Precision allows more condition applications due to traits/sigils and toughness gives more condition damage through food/traits/runes.

Dire loses out on the precision bonus and carrion loses out on the precision and toughness bonus.

Just because each condition does high damage doesn’t mean dps is high. A dire player’s bleeds may hit for the same amount but they can’t reach as many stacks as a rabid player. This means their overall DPS is lower. However you never notice this because of the stack limit and multiple people.

What we need is the condition duration cap to be removed along with the condition hard cap. Then slightly rebalance the durations of conditions and introduce a Condition damage/Condition duration/ precision gear set which would be the zerker equivalent of condition damage.

I don’t really know how you can compare DPS in this game though. I’ve been killed by warriors and thieves in <3 seconds but I can’t say i’ve ever been killed that fast by a condition user. Even 25 stacks of bleeds, burning and fear on me that is only 5k dps and would take 6 seconds to kill me, not the 3 that physical damage dealers can do. Without a dps meter there is no good way to tell if things are actually balanced.

Well stated/explained!! Just as a point of clarity, while Rabid offers the highest condition damage and good survivability, Dire offers the lowest direct damage of the three, but highest survivability and while Carrion is the squishiest, it offers the highest direct damage of the 3 with a CD/Vit/power spec. Personally I run Dire.

“Guard/Warrior only”
“Zerker only”
“DPS only”
“no condi”

I shouldn’t have to see that in LFG. Especially not after a year of the game being out. Stop being so worried about buffing condition, don’t cling on to having every spell the same in PVP and PVE.

Knaifhogg.5964:

“Guard/Warrior only”
“Zerker only”
“DPS only”
“no condi”

I shouldn’t have to see that in LFG. Especially not after a year of the game being out. Stop being so worried about buffing condition, don’t cling on to having every spell the same in PVP and PVE.

They can be the same, but they there’s absolutely no reason they can’t be balanced differently between PvP and PvE. Laziness, perhaps.

well if they go down the road of sub classes and splitting up into Damage, Control & Support type rolls – then yes – conditions cap will need to be increased regardless…. otherwise everyone will just end up playing 1 style / sub class of each profession…

so i wouldn’t sweat it – this is eventually going to happen..

My 60 second bleed doesn’t even last 3 seconds on most world bosses /flex.

My damage on condition necro gets deleted by zerker build mesmers because they have a forced trait which illusions deal bleeds on crits. How is it fair that a ‘teammate’ deletes my damage completely if they have 3 of their duelists up.

FuriousPop.2789:

well if they go down the road of sub classes and splitting up into Damage, Control & Support type rolls – then yes – conditions cap will need to be increased regardless…. otherwise everyone will just end up playing 1 style / sub class of each profession…

so i wouldn’t sweat it – this is eventually going to happen..

15 months in, and they acknowledged there was a problem with the cap over a year ago. No mention of it since. It’s not happening any time soon. Fixing condition damage doesn’t get more people playing, it doesn’t generate revenue. Where is the win for ANet? Time and time again, they’ve shown they care little for their customer’s concerns. I remember huge unanswered threads on this forum about various issues with this game…ignorance is bliss.

It might be a big problem to tackle. It’s entirely possible that this particular issue is at the bottom of their list.

Leamas.5803:

FuriousPop.2789:

well if they go down the road of sub classes and splitting up into Damage, Control & Support type rolls – then yes – conditions cap will need to be increased regardless…. otherwise everyone will just end up playing 1 style / sub class of each profession…

so i wouldn’t sweat it – this is eventually going to happen..

15 months in, and they acknowledged there was a problem with the cap over a year ago. No mention of it since. It’s not happening any time soon. Fixing condition damage doesn’t get more people playing, it doesn’t generate revenue. Where is the win for ANet? Time and time again, they’ve shown they care little for their customer’s concerns. I remember huge unanswered threads on this forum about various issues with this game…ignorance is bliss.

no MMO is perfect – it takes alot of time and effort – to which by the time it is completely balanced 1 of 2 things will happen – too many players have left OR GW3 will come out.

at the end of the day, GW2 is a business not a charity – things need to be done so they can win ALWAYS….

having said that – CAP increase means things will die too quickly – maybe not to increase the stack but adding another condition to target from a different player increases the duration rather than remove it all together or something along those lines. what ever they do (if anything) must be done carefully since it could prove to be a massive inbalance to the game…

FuriousPop.2789:

having said that – CAP increase means things will die too quickly

That makes no sense since there is no such limitation against direct damage. This is all condi users are asking for is to be able to contribute. Already at only level 42, in groups, my guard causes more damage than my 80 necro who is all in exo simply because the guard which is a power build, but not zerker since I built in some toughness, does not have to share. In the Queens train, I can regularly see several hundred damage, upwards of 700-800, but in the same group, my necro usually ticks under 100 because so many are sharing the stack and so many conditions are lost to the wind. Solo, I can easily tick much higher against strong foes when I have time to build a stack that is not shared by 20 others.

Leamas.5803:

DanteZero.9736:

In terms of caps for conditions, it was explained that it’s a limitation of the technology since each stack of a condition has intensity or duration constantly updating for each and every single player.

That’s a cop-out. With today’s processing power there’s no reason for this to exist. There was lots of speculation around the 250 item stack limit in the bank too, and the staunch insisted it was a programmatic limitation, even against all the evidence that it was not. Now you can buy bank stack expansions in the gem store. The 250 is simply an arbitrary number which is exactly the same as the 25 for the condition stack…arbitrary. It’s not like it’s complex math, in fact, I would argue the cap complicates the process because they need some sort of algorithm to determine which conditions to apply and which to ignore, rather than just applying them and letting them time out. If they are at the limitation of their hardware and simply cannot increase the condition stack then all damage needs to be reworked because condition damage is broken in PvE.

It is a technical limitation because Condition Damage is a stat. If all condi damage didn’t scale with stats, they could make the limit way higher but as it stands the system would have to calculate every condition on a target, and the condi stat of it’s caster every second. In a fight like a world boss where they always have max conditions on the boss that would create a massive delay in whatever function dictates damage.

Dual.8953:

Leamas.5803:

DanteZero.9736:

In terms of caps for conditions, it was explained that it’s a limitation of the technology since each stack of a condition has intensity or duration constantly updating for each and every single player.

That’s a cop-out. With today’s processing power there’s no reason for this to exist. There was lots of speculation around the 250 item stack limit in the bank too, and the staunch insisted it was a programmatic limitation, even against all the evidence that it was not. Now you can buy bank stack expansions in the gem store. The 250 is simply an arbitrary number which is exactly the same as the 25 for the condition stack…arbitrary. It’s not like it’s complex math, in fact, I would argue the cap complicates the process because they need some sort of algorithm to determine which conditions to apply and which to ignore, rather than just applying them and letting them time out. If they are at the limitation of their hardware and simply cannot increase the condition stack then all damage needs to be reworked because condition damage is broken in PvE.

It is a technical limitation because Condition Damage is a stat. If all condi damage didn’t scale with stats, they could make the limit way higher but as it stands the system would have to calculate every condition on a target, and the condi stat of it’s caster every second. In a fight like a world boss where they always have max conditions on the boss that would create a massive delay in whatever function dictates damage.

If the argument is ‘the engine can not handle conditions from multiple players’ then there are several possible conclusions:
1. The engine is broken
2. The condition mechanic is badly designed
3. Condition specs should not be in the game (since the engine can not handle them)

But…
This is an MMO (many players)
It is group friendly (no tagging/claiming mobs)
It has huge world events and boss fights
Every class can generate conditions and many classes ‘lean’ towards condition builds

It appears the devs intended there to be condition focused characters.
And it appears the devs intended people to play together and attack the same mobs/bosses

And the devs have said that condition damage is a problem they are looking into (in October 2012 and February 2013).

Given the above facts/observations/conclusions… I still say They need to fix it

Ulari