Guild Wars 2

very misleading spelling, a Zh sound is the s in words like treasure and pleasure. if the H modifier is not pronounced, it should be gone. Silent H does not make sense

Z-hai-tan

i dont see the problem. jsut because some words use Zh as a S sound does not mean its always a S sound

This is a Chinese Pinyin: Zhai Tan??

I ready it as “Zai-Tan”, similar to Xin Zhao in League of Legends. “Zin Zow”! Am I getting them both wrong? O_o.

a chinese Zh is exactly Ch and “Xin Zhao” would be pronounced “Shin Chao”

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zhaitan

“Trivia:
Shaitan is the Islamic name for Satan and the name used for Demons in Islam.”

Why not call it Zartan?

G. I. Joe!!

A silent h is pretty common in words, I really don’t see your issue.

Well not all letters are always pronounced in words.

Why is “internet trolling” spelled the way it is when the act of baiting, luring and hooking is called “trawling?” ;-)

I am not aware of a single english word in which the letter combination “zh” signifies the sound you describe. also, written language and pronounciation are always somewhat arbitrary, even more so when it comes to individual names.

As for the unvoiced “h”: Khan, Ghana, honor…

Why do they spell it herb if it is pronounced erb?

as russian speaker i prounouce it like
http://translate.google.com.ua/?hl=uk&tab=wT#ru/en/%D0%B6%D0%B0%D0%B9%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BD
copy paste it and press sound icon to hear sound

It’s a fantasy game, it is only natural that we get foreign-sounding words.

I love how the assumption from the first few posters is that the name is of “chinese” origin.

I think the arabic reference wins this thread.

The true losers are fantasy writers who go out of their way to make dumb names with silent letters.

ShadowGryphon.6257:

I love how the assumption from the first few posters is that the name is of “chinese” origin.

It’s not an absurd assumption. “Zhaitan” seems to be the transliteration of valid Chinese phonemes.

oh my god.

Some people and their problems.

I’m actually shocked at this topic.

?

Could be spelled Billybobbenjamin for all I care still pronounce it as zaitan…….

It’s the Hebrew word for demons/Satan.

The way everyone pronounces jotun has also been bothering me.

andybmcc.8751:

The way everyone pronounces jotun has also been bothering me.

You expected it to be “yotun”?

Eochaidh.4106:

ShadowGryphon.6257:

I love how the assumption from the first few posters is that the name is of “chinese” origin.

It’s not an absurd assumption. “Zhaitan” seems to be the transliteration of valid Chinese phonemes.

I said I love the assumption, I never said it was absurd.

Eochaidh.4106:

andybmcc.8751:

The way everyone pronounces jotun has also been bothering me.

You expected it to be “yotun”?

Yes, because it’s supposed to be pronounced “yotun”.

Not only Hebrew. Other languages use a similar word for demons, like Swahili. Shaitani or Shetani means ‘Demon’ or ‘Spirit.’

ChaosKirin.1328:

Not only Hebrew. Other languages use a similar word for demons, like Swahili. Shaitani or Shetani means ‘Demon’ or ‘Spirit.’

It probably has the same semitic roots as the other variations though.

Why is the h and s in chasm when it’s pronounced cazm? But we pronounce ch as in chocolate!
Why can Shawn be written Shawn, Shaun and Sean?
Where is the sense?
Blasphemies abound!
Edited by moderator: wrong format all caps

RShara.3265:

Why is the h and s in chasm when it’s pronounced cazm? But we pronounce ch as in chocolate!
Why can Shawn be written Shawn, Shaun and Sean?
WHERE IS THE SENSE?
BLASPHEMIES ABOUND!

They’re spoken as in their languages of origin. “S” has the sound of “sh” in Irish, “chasm” comes from Greek “khasma”.

I know. I’m being facetious.

It is somewhat true though. English is quite a mess when it comes to pronounciation, and it not always obvious how to speak when it comes to certain words even because of the lack of accent marks. :| It’s especially annoying for non-native speakers.

hmmm… because another evil dragon took Zaitan during the first minutes of launch?

Speaking of poor pronunciation, in one of the dialogue scenes of my Silvari personal story, one of the NPC voice-actors pronounced the word ‘quay’ as ‘kway’ rather than the correct pronunciation ‘key’. It totally jarred me from my immersion in the story. If they are going to spend so much money on voice acting, the least they could do is check the pronunciation.

Bluebird.1890:

Why do they spell it herb if it is pronounced erb?

That said, if you want slient H’s you should go to Hammersmith. Or ‘Ammersmth’ as my dad likes to call it.

Twaddlefish.6537:

It’s the Hebrew word for demons/Satan.

you are aware that the outlandish sounding names and terms in this game may be inspired by real languages, but are not actually representing these languages? If you think otherwise, would you be so kind as to explain to me how semitic languages found their ways to Orr?

Eochaidh.4106:

It is somewhat true though. English is quite a mess when it comes to pronounciation, and it not always obvious how to speak when it comes to certain words even because of the lack of accent marks. :| It’s especially annoying for non-native speakers.

english is comparatively easy in this regard. But every written language is “a mess” if I may use your term. There is no real connection between sign and sound, every language uses a different system of arbitrary representation.

First world problems.

Algreg.3629:

Eochaidh.4106:

It is somewhat true though. English is quite a mess when it comes to pronounciation, and it not always obvious how to speak when it comes to certain words even because of the lack of accent marks. :| It’s especially annoying for non-native speakers.

english is comparatively easy in this regard. But every written language is “a mess” if I may use your term. There is no real connection between sign and sound, every language uses a different system of arbitrary representation.

Not very true at all. I know Portuguese, Spanish and some German and pretty much everything is straight-forward read as it is written, unlike in English. Few exceptions are French-borrowed words in German, but it’s quite eaay to know how to pronounce nonetheless.

Brannoncyll.1978:

Speaking of poor pronunciation, in one of the dialogue scenes of my Silvari personal story, one of the NPC voice-actors pronounced the word ‘quay’ as ‘kway’ rather than the correct pronunciation ‘key’. It totally jarred me from my immersion in the story. If they are going to spend so much money on voice acting, the least they could do is check the pronunciation.

This is exactly what I am talking about. Why in the world would “quay” be pronounced as “key”? Why isn’t that implied on its written form?

When English was invented someone in the acquisitions department bought too many ’h’s and as such ever since we have to slip silent ones in needlessly in order to eventually get rid of the excess and restore balance to the language and through that global peace and harmony.

Shame, but true.

Eochaidh.4106:

Algreg.3629:

Eochaidh.4106:

It is somewhat true though. English is quite a mess when it comes to pronounciation, and it not always obvious how to speak when it comes to certain words even because of the lack of accent marks. :| It’s especially annoying for non-native speakers.

english is comparatively easy in this regard. But every written language is “a mess” if I may use your term. There is no real connection between sign and sound, every language uses a different system of arbitrary representation.

Not very true at all. I know Portuguese, Spanish and some German and pretty much everything is straight-forward read as it is written, unlike in English. Few exceptions are French-borrowed words in German, but it’s quite eaay to know how to pronounce nonetheless.

No, letters represent arbitrary sounds. I am German myself and there is no metaphysical connection between the letter and the sound or rather sounds in different contexts in that language. I know what you mean, in e.g. German, context does not change the sound a letter represents as much as in english or “worse” french, but still the connection between the written system of signs and the sounds are arbitrary, but agreed upon by the collective. Trust me on this as a M.A. in philologies, this may sound really abstract, but it is basic linguistical knowledge (not trying to belittle your opinion in any way).

Aphix.9846:

oh my god.

Some people and their problems.

I’m actually shocked at this topic.

?

Could be spelled Billybobbenjamin for all I care still pronounce it as zaitan…….

I guess you are unable to tell the difference between a legitimate linguistic question and complaining.

Algreg.3629:

Eochaidh.4106:

Algreg.3629:

Eochaidh.4106:

It is somewhat true though. English is quite a mess when it comes to pronounciation, and it not always obvious how to speak when it comes to certain words even because of the lack of accent marks. :| It’s especially annoying for non-native speakers.

english is comparatively easy in this regard. But every written language is “a mess” if I may use your term. There is no real connection between sign and sound, every language uses a different system of arbitrary representation.

Not very true at all. I know Portuguese, Spanish and some German and pretty much everything is straight-forward read as it is written, unlike in English. Few exceptions are French-borrowed words in German, but it’s quite eaay to know how to pronounce nonetheless.

No, letters represent arbitrary sounds. I am German myself and there is no metaphysical connection between the letter and the sound or rather sounds in different contexts in that language. I know what you mean, in e.g. German, context does not change the sound a letter represents as much as in english or “worse” french, but still the connection between the written system of signs and the sounds are arbitrary, but agreed upon by the collective. Trust me on this as a M.A. in philologies, this may sound really abstract, but it is basic linguistical knowledge (not trying to belittle your opinion in any way).

Yes, I understand that the written language is an arbitrary construction to make everything ‘roughly’ covered through the same rules previously agreed upon in order to have intelligible written communication. And it may indeed not be quite possible in some situations. It just seems like a sloppy work when I come to English (there seems to be more exceptions than rules) and get to words such as “quay”. Surely it may be something easy for people who live and breathe that language everyday to understand, but for foreigners to learn it is quite annoying.

My first point was, why can’t there be accentuation marks in English? Where in “police” is it implied that it must be pronounced as “poleeeeeece”? Surely it might be my own lack of knowledge on the language, and I really am no expert on linguistics, but the world would be a better place if they had something pointing out where the accentuation goes. It just seemed practically a lot easier to learn how to pronounce words in German than in English.

Then we have a gazillion words in which they can’t possibly expect everyone to be an expert on etymology to know how to pronounce.

I expected “jotun” to be “yotun” – but when my character said it differently, I wasn’t that bothered. It’s a video game and they don’t have to stick exactly to the “real world” words they are using for their own purposes.

Dropping "h"s ?! ’ello, wot ?

Eochaidh.4106:

Algreg.3629:

Eochaidh.4106:

Algreg.3629:

Eochaidh.4106:

It is somewhat true though. English is quite a mess when it comes to pronounciation, and it not always obvious how to speak when it comes to certain words even because of the lack of accent marks. :| It’s especially annoying for non-native speakers.

english is comparatively easy in this regard. But every written language is “a mess” if I may use your term. There is no real connection between sign and sound, every language uses a different system of arbitrary representation.

Not very true at all. I know Portuguese, Spanish and some German and pretty much everything is straight-forward read as it is written, unlike in English. Few exceptions are French-borrowed words in German, but it’s quite eaay to know how to pronounce nonetheless.

No, letters represent arbitrary sounds. I am German myself and there is no metaphysical connection between the letter and the sound or rather sounds in different contexts in that language. I know what you mean, in e.g. German, context does not change the sound a letter represents as much as in english or “worse” french, but still the connection between the written system of signs and the sounds are arbitrary, but agreed upon by the collective. Trust me on this as a M.A. in philologies, this may sound really abstract, but it is basic linguistical knowledge (not trying to belittle your opinion in any way).

Yes, I understand that the written language is an arbitrary construction to make everything ‘roughly’ covered through the same rules previously agreed upon in order to have intelligible written communication. And it may indeed not be quite possible in some situations. It just seems like a sloppy work when I come to English (there seems to be more exceptions than rules) and get to words such as “quay”. Surely it may be something easy for people who live and breathe that language everyday to understand, but for foreigners to learn it is quite annoying.

My first point was, why can’t there be accentuation marks in English? Where in “police” is it implied that it must be pronounced as “poleeeeeece”? Surely it might be my own lack of knowledge on the language, and I really am no expert on linguistics, but the world would be a better place if they had something pointing out where the accentuation goes. It just seemed practically a lot easier to learn how to pronounce words in German than in English.

Then we have a gazillion words in which they can’t possibly expect everyone to be an expert on etymology to know how to pronounce.

Oh, I am with you there, if I had my way, we would just forget about the traditional alphabets and write in ipa (an international linguistic sign system that denotates the actual voiced sound). It is as easy to learn as the alphabets and much easier to use. But I doubt we will see that happen for generations, if ever Most weird pronounciations like “quay” usually have some historical component to them, that goes for the whole french language where at some point the development of written signs and voiced language divided a lot – things like that usually happen when authorities dictate a strict system for written language or “official language” while the spoken language follows the normal rules of organic development – but enough of this, have fun playing!

Algreg.3629:

Eochaidh.4106:

Algreg.3629:

Eochaidh.4106:

Algreg.3629:

Eochaidh.4106:

It is somewhat true though. English is quite a mess when it comes to pronounciation, and it not always obvious how to speak when it comes to certain words even because of the lack of accent marks. :| It’s especially annoying for non-native speakers.

english is comparatively easy in this regard. But every written language is “a mess” if I may use your term. There is no real connection between sign and sound, every language uses a different system of arbitrary representation.

Not very true at all. I know Portuguese, Spanish and some German and pretty much everything is straight-forward read as it is written, unlike in English. Few exceptions are French-borrowed words in German, but it’s quite eaay to know how to pronounce nonetheless.

No, letters represent arbitrary sounds. I am German myself and there is no metaphysical connection between the letter and the sound or rather sounds in different contexts in that language. I know what you mean, in e.g. German, context does not change the sound a letter represents as much as in english or “worse” french, but still the connection between the written system of signs and the sounds are arbitrary, but agreed upon by the collective. Trust me on this as a M.A. in philologies, this may sound really abstract, but it is basic linguistical knowledge (not trying to belittle your opinion in any way).

Yes, I understand that the written language is an arbitrary construction to make everything ‘roughly’ covered through the same rules previously agreed upon in order to have intelligible written communication. And it may indeed not be quite possible in some situations. It just seems like a sloppy work when I come to English (there seems to be more exceptions than rules) and get to words such as “quay”. Surely it may be something easy for people who live and breathe that language everyday to understand, but for foreigners to learn it is quite annoying.

My first point was, why can’t there be accentuation marks in English? Where in “police” is it implied that it must be pronounced as “poleeeeeece”? Surely it might be my own lack of knowledge on the language, and I really am no expert on linguistics, but the world would be a better place if they had something pointing out where the accentuation goes. It just seemed practically a lot easier to learn how to pronounce words in German than in English.

Then we have a gazillion words in which they can’t possibly expect everyone to be an expert on etymology to know how to pronounce.

Oh, I am with you there, if I had my way, we would just forget about the traditional alphabets and write in ipa (an international linguistic sign system that denotates the actual voiced sound). It is as easy to learn as the alphabets and much easier to use. But I doubt we will see that happen for generations, if ever Most weird pronounciations like “quay” usually have some historical component to them, that goes for the whole french language where at some point the development of written signs and voiced language divided a lot – things like that usually happen when authorities dictate a strict system for written language or “official language” while the spoken language follows the normal rules of organic development – but enough of this, have fun playing!

Oh well, I guess I should stay away from French then! Thanks for the clarifications.

I don’t (K)now

Deacon.6249:

I don’t (K)now

• I don’t (k)no(w).

I LOVE THE INSANITY OF MY LANGUAGE. Though it is a bugger trying to explain it to my 6 year old nephews who is learning to read and write it. Sometimes you just have to say ‘well, that’s just the way it is’

I pronounce the H.

It’s a soft “Hu” in the syllable Zi

Like Za-hai, but said as one syllable.

It’s also how many of the game’s voice actors say it, but that H sound is very subtle.

It’s like what, most of us actually do pronounce the H in what, it’s just a super soft pronunciation. Just the subtlest breeze of an H.