Guild Wars 2

Kasama.8941:

Vayne.8563:

I disagree. The fact is, what you’re hearing, that conversation IS the background. We know he’s a warrior dude. We know he’s Eir’s son. We know nothing about his history with romance or women (but nothing would surprise me about a Norn). His comments is the writer’s way of introducing that side of him. We haven’t been exposed to that side of him before because, understandably, he’s preoccupied with getting help and fighting. Only after the imminent danger is past does he return to this other matter. Also, perhaps trusting the character more now that we’ve fought beside him.

When authors are taught to write, they always say show, don’t tell. In this case, his dialogue shows us who he is, since we haven’t really seen him in any kind of normal situation.

You had another view of him in your mind, but what’s been done here isn’t unreasonable.

Everything that a character goes through, is a representation of who he or she is. Braham is not just a warrior. He is depicted as someone who isn’t afraid of facing other people. He talks to both Rytlock, Knut, and Eir, while standing up to them. At this point, he is presented as being somewhat over-confident, and not afraid to say, or follow through with, what’s on his mind. This isn’t something I’ve come up with, this is the tone of the conversations we have witnessed. That’s not to say he couldn’t be insecure about love, but he defiantly doesn’t come of as a shy character. Even something like this would had sounded a lot better:

-So who’s Ottilia?
-Ottilia? She’s…just a girl I grew up with. I’ve always looked after her, but she’s never really noticed me.
-Sounds like she means a lot to you.

This could also represent a sense of insecurity, but without going against what we’ve already been presented with.

Nothing that I saw from anything he said told me anything about how he deals with the opposite sex. You have some idea that someone who’s confident in dealing with others is automatically going to be confident in dealing with a woman.

And this isn’t a book or a movie. It’s a game. So the scene servers the game.

I’ve done professional writing and editing. Not to say this makes my opinion better than yours, but I’ve almost never read anything I didn’t think I could reword better FOR ME. But I also know enough from editing to know that how things are worded is often very much a matter of personal taste.

For example, the earlier exchanges with him led me to believe he was young, impetuous and somewhawt immature anyway. I didn’t get the idea that he was some mature warrior guy. It felt more like he was a young, possibly hot-headed guy who had an agenda. His agenda was more important to him than anything else going on.

He expected leaders to change what they were doing based on his say so. Yes, it was urgent to him. Young people also felt that sense of urgency.

We’ll just have to agree to disagree about this, but I got a different character from the earlier part of the story than you did, which probably made the later character seem no so out of character to me.

I completely agree with the OP. I replied to a thread about this a few days ago and that post was deleted.

The trailers for the warrior charrs looked awesome and helped me decided to buy the game. yet when I log into the game now, all I see pink quiggan backpacks, and 8 bit games. i want this game getting grittier, not getting rainbows and unicorns.

The writing IMHO suffers from similar problems to Buffy the Vampire Slayer. You have a world of death, violence, and suffering, sure, but more often than not characters are acting sarcastic about it, rather than real people dealing with danger. Very few people are grim or solemn when they should be, rather than quipping out cutesy lines.

I’m also reminded of the contrast between Warhammer video games, vs Dark Heresy or Warhammer Fantasy Roleplaying 2nd edition. The video games seem “goofy” indeed, when considered in the light of the more grounded tabletop roleplaying games.

You know, when I play the game I always get the impression that the writers and designers had fun making it – and that makes it fun to play. Not liking tongue in cheek humor doesn’t make you smarter than anyone else, it just makes you a grump.

There are plenty of serious npcs and serious missions in the game; fighting back the Centaurs, the Dragon Whorshiping Norn, Most of Orr, Bandits attacking farms, Allot of Ascalon, and much much more. It all depends on which parts you want to focus.

And FYI for the guy who said “most people in the world have a lower than average IQ”: that isn’t possible – if the majority of people have a 90 IQ, then that becomes average. Besides which, IQ is measured in many ways by many different professionals – having a high education but low imagination will score you great in one test and not so great in another. IQ is the most overused and poorly understood term tossed about by people who want to sound smart while having no idea what they’re talking about. Even laughing at fart jokes – which I find stupid as all gettout (and Thank You Anet for not having a bunch of toilet humor in this game!) – doesn’t make you dumb; I know doctors in psychology, sociology and pharmacology who still laugh at those jokes … there’s just no accounting for taste.

I don’t mind it, I played Earth and Beyond gooooofy! but was fun too …while it lasted at least. Just be glad we get expansions of it at some point and not abandoned to throw money into some fail social game /me grumbles at ea
Tada-o!

hmm yea doesnt look like the game GW2 is now….If they would made trailer on game in current state it would be in Asura voice with bad jokes, no dragons in trailer beacuse dragons in GW2 is the most boring kitten ever i would rather be silent about it, they could say if you buy gw2 you get immediate acces to beta instance called “WvW” which will be playable next year or maybe never, depends how much ppl will stay until we finish it….Also the PEGI 12 is kinda laughable beacuse this game atm look like its made for <12yo…

It’s not just a surfeit of goofiness. It’s a failure to engage the player on an emotional level. For me, anyway. With most of the NPCs there’s no resonance. No… heck, I don’t know. Verisimilitude. Or something. It’s like walking into a restaurant and ordering a slice of cherry pie a la mode, and having the waiter bring you a photograph (or a nice pastel water color painting) of a delicious-looking slice of cherry pie a la mode. Bon app kitten

I recently watched a compilation of all the cutscenes from Eye of the North. Great stuff. Two parts in particular stood out to me: when we first reach the Eye of the North and meet a certain Vanguard Mesmer, and the culmination of the story arc with Vekk, Gadd, and Oola. (And the human necromancer, Livia.)

The first time one of my characters met that Vanguard Mesmer and heard the words – “My name is Gwen.” – I got cold chills. Watching the video of that encounter, yeah, that scene still evokes an emotional response. Granted, that story unfolded over a long period of time and probably required knowledge of certain prior events to have full impact. Still…

Vekk, Gadd, and Oola. Sure, they are asura, and they all have their asuran quirks, but I don’t think you could call any of them ‘goofy’. The way that played out – yeah. It got to me then, and it got to me again when I watched that video. That, in my opinion, was some powerful storytelling. Things happened that I didn’t see coming 12 parsecs away, and the characters behaved in ways that felt authentic. To me.

There’s nothing in in GW2 that has engaged me like that. Characters come and go, they do and say things that often don’t make sense to me, often while standing there waving their arms gently against that abstract backdrop, and then they’re replaced by someone else (equally uninteresting/unimportant/just plain un) who does the same thing.

I almost remembered Tonn’s name (almost). I didn’t remember his wife’s name. He was an obvious emotional setup. She was a caricature.

Trahearne – ugh. On top of all the other problems I have with that character, he just drones on and on and on in that dull Trahearne monotone. “I’ll stand here on this remote and secure ledge while Jim wrestles the giant risen octopus. Did you know that the prefix ‘octo’ means eight, as also used in the words octave and octagon? Look out, Jim. When abruptly separated from the body, a human head, being more or less round in form, tends to roll downhill. This is due to the force of gravity…”

That sylvari mentor – Sieran – why was she even there? No one competent would have assigned someone so irresponsible to the position she held. “I’ll simply fly to safety while you try to cross that dangerous bridge. Woopsie. Oh dear, that’s going to leave a mark.” Compared to Sieran, Pinkie Pie is like a Vulcan.

Speaking of which, My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic often attains unto the very heights of goofiness, but the stories and characters are strong and the storytellers never neglect the most important thing that a good story must evoke in order to be a good story:

the feels.

Okay, I’m done rambling on now.

Tachenon.5270:

There’s nothing in in GW2 that has engaged me like that. Characters come and go, they do and say things that often don’t make sense to me, often while standing there waving their arms gently against that abstract backdrop, and then they’re replaced by someone else (equally uninteresting/unimportant/just plain un) who does the same thing.

I had exactly two of those.

Doing the hatchery mission with Rox and finding her all-business for the most part without being abrasive. I enjoyed it, and her character actually feels pretty solid. I hope there’s fleshing out of her later so we get something more substantial.

Rescuing Deborah during my personal story. This is one of the only times my human ranger actually felt like he was emoting properly. It’s a shame she disappeared from the story after that.

In terms of actually great moments within the GW2 storyline, one clearly sticks out: the “Final Boss” of the Infinity Ball arc.

To restart the convo…

The fact is, GW2’s tone and style is fine and dandy…if you take away GW1. That’s the real problem as I see it. It’s perfectly ok to create this kind of game that sets a more fun-loving and relaxing mood. I just don’t think comes close to the feel of GW1, and how you connected to it as a player. For instance, here’s an old trailer for Guild Wars Prophecies:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdSXOmyO9go

Note that the content with the undead and bone dragon(I assume Rotscale) was obviously not exactly the direction they went with the main antagonists. But the tone is glaringly obvious.

Jack of Tears.9458:

And FYI for the guy who said “most people in the world have a lower than average IQ”: that isn’t possible – if the majority of people have a 90 IQ, then that becomes average. Besides which, IQ is measured in many ways by many different professionals – having a high education but low imagination will score you great in one test and not so great in another. IQ is the most overused and poorly understood term tossed about by people who want to sound smart while having no idea what they’re talking about. Even laughing at fart jokes – which I find stupid as all gettout (and Thank You Anet for not having a bunch of toilet humor in this game!) – doesn’t make you dumb; I know doctors in psychology, sociology and pharmacology who still laugh at those jokes … there’s just no accounting for taste.

Just a clarification. 100 IQ is the average. That is how IQ is determined. The average intelligence is set to 100 and 70-130 represent 2 standard deviations away from that. In other words, the intention is that 95% of the population is between 70 and 130 IQ.

I agree this game and story are goofy. A quick look at some of the favourable characters shows you this (Tybault for example). I really did not like Tybault, because I found he was like an annoying little 14 year old. I joined the Order of Whispers expecting a dark, gloomy and secretive society that can be awesome. Instead, I got this 14 year old cat.

Jemmi.6058:

Just a clarification. 100 IQ is the average. That is how IQ is determined. The average intelligence is set to 100 and 70-130 represent 2 standard deviations away from that. In other words, the intention is that 95% of the population is between 70 and 130 IQ.

I agree this game and story are goofy. A quick look at some of the favourable characters shows you this (Tybault for example). I really did not like Tybault, because I found he was like an annoying little 14 year old. I joined the Order of Whispers expecting a dark, gloomy and secretive society that can be awesome. Instead, I got this 14 year old cat.

At the same time you missed a whole point of this char Charr – he’s goofy for a reason. His goofiness comes out from a fear of a failure, abandonment, unusefulness and dissapointing others. A smoke screen of a fragile and kitten sad character – what storyline can be more grim than that? In a horror it would be a perfect character to snap and start a bloody mayhem, since this is a heroic fantasy he sacrifice himself for the cause.

By the way – it’s a heroic fantasy guys, not the dark, survival thriller. Light personalities fits perfectly in it just like a dark, gloomy and power-hungry lich.

dadamowsky.4692:

Jemmi.6058:

Just a clarification. 100 IQ is the average. That is how IQ is determined. The average intelligence is set to 100 and 70-130 represent 2 standard deviations away from that. In other words, the intention is that 95% of the population is between 70 and 130 IQ.

I agree this game and story are goofy. A quick look at some of the favourable characters shows you this (Tybault for example). I really did not like Tybault, because I found he was like an annoying little 14 year old. I joined the Order of Whispers expecting a dark, gloomy and secretive society that can be awesome. Instead, I got this 14 year old cat.

At the same time you missed a whole point of this char Charr – he’s goofy for a reason. His goofiness comes out from a fear of a failure, abandonment, unusefulness and dissapointing others. A smoke screen of a fragile and kitten sad character – what storyline can be more grim than that? In a horror it would be a perfect character to snap and start a bloody mayhem, since this is a heroic fantasy he sacrifice himself for the cause.

It’s not like I didn’t pay attention. I realize he had fear of failure, abandonment and unusefulness. That didn’t make me like him any more, especially after all the build up of what the order of whispers was. I found him to be a very big let down. I honestly do not understand the appeal, but to each their own.

EDIT: Had he not died so quickly and stuck with me for MANY more levels. I probably would have grown to love him, but for this it seemed like I had a weak and immature side-kick who dragged me down in everything I did.

Even Doctor Who is more serious than this game.
Fantastic!Fantastic!Fantastic!
Fantastic!Fantastic!Fantastic!
Fantastic!Fantastic!Fantastic!
Fantastic!Fantastic!Fantastic!
Fantastic!Fantastic!Fantastic!
Fantastic!Fantastic!Fantastic!

This is all your-mileage-may-vary stuff, but I kind of agree that in the months I’ve been playing I still don’t really feel connected with the narrative going on in the game.

There are interesting ideas but the writing lets them down & any time I started to feel I was being drawn into the storyline there was a poorly characterised NPC to pull me back out again (usually, but not always Trahearne) by explaining everything away, leaving little area for narrative satisfaction/discovery. I get the idea that the humans are -supposed- to be portrayed as being caught in a deadly decadent cultural cycle, but it’s communicated very poorly through the storyline. They just come across as children holding the idiot ball who have -forgotten- great swathes of their own history (I’m still convinced it would have been better for a human to lead the quest to clean up Orr – it being an old human kingdom where human gods once lived).

In terms of the ‘tone’ I kind of find certain elements, like the Asura, have been flanderised into ‘goofiness’. In GW1 the Asura had a sinister edge, a somewhat blue-orange morality, perhaps with an element of desperation caused by being utterly defeated & driven out of their underground cities. In GW2 I found them to be reduced to an endless zany mad scientist trope. The absolute culture of individuality of the Norn was interesting in GW1, the idea that they were individualist to the point that it was difficult to get them to cooperate with each other was interesting. In GW2 they’re just sort of another drunk shouty Viking trope. The Order of Whispers is another example – I don’t feel they are anywhere near as mysterious as they were in GW1. They have garish uniforms & a cipher a toddler could work out (“X the X”). The Whispers leader in GW1 was very, very secretive. In GW2 there’s not really that element of mystery.

I kind of think the nature of antagonists/protagonists in the game isn’t very satisfying either – it’s very monodimensional. Each race has two factions within it & the relationship between them is pretty much black/white. In GW1 the White Mantle were interesting antagonists because initially, at least, there were shades of grey (the White Mantle saved Kryta from being destroyed by the Charr, but turned out to be an evil cult). The Mursaat were interesting because they were both inscrutable, but also acting along lines of alien logic that could be considered self-preserving rather than just muhahaha-evil. Even the actual muhahaha-evil Palawa Joko was a multidimensional character, quite prepared to ally with ‘goody heroes’ because it benefited him.

All this said, there were elements of comedy throughout GW1 & I think one of my favourite ‘missions’ was the Nightfall one where you got to participate in a festival & play games with the guests. At the same time there were parts of GW1 where the writing was just awful – Factions seemed to be something of a nadir in the series.

I think the biggest problem in the story telling is the characters. I don’t care about any character in Guild Wars 2. I don’t feel their pain, love, anguish, hatred, jealousy or greed. The characters don’t feel important. I don’t even see them in game. They have no personality and they have zero impact within the world.

Stories are forged by characters. Without characters you have no story.

I guess its all opinions

But no Asura Goofy seems fine to me, whats not fine is Pony shooting bows, chicken guns, disco ball maces etc that stuff being added just totally destroys Guildwars lore and i’d love to see how that stuff got added without anyone saying this is too much…

Dante.1508:

I guess its all opinions

But no Asura Goofy seems fine to me, whats not fine is Pony shooting bows, chicken guns, disco ball maces etc that stuff being added just totally destroys Guildwars lore and i’d love to see how that stuff got added without anyone saying this is too much…